What is so bad?

[avatar4321]

Ive been hearing liberals for years complaining how much President Bush and the GOP has been destroying this nation. What exactly is so darn bad with this nation? I look around and see good economy, high employment, charity flourishing, less abortions, freedom spreading through the world, etc. What exactly is so darn bad?

[avatar4321]

nothing i guess...

[nevadamedic]

Ive been hearing liberals for years complaining how much President Bush and the GOP has been destroying this nation. What exactly is so darn bad with this nation? I look around and see good economy, high employment, charity flourishing, less abortions, freedom spreading through the world, etc. What exactly is so darn bad?

The news did a story tonight on how well the Stock Market is doing. Need I remind everone that it crashed when Clinton was President.

[manu1959]

The news did a story tonight on how well the Stock Market is doing. Need I remind everone that it crashed when Clinton was President.

it was the republican congress.......they were out to get him....

[nevadamedic]

it was the republican congress.......they were out to get him....

Oh, I forgot. :laugh2:

[manu1959]

Oh, I forgot. :laugh2:

see that is the problem with you right wing nut all yall can't member anything

[Abbey Marie]

see that is the problem with you right wing nut all yall can't member anything

Some things are best forgotten. :D

[nevadamedic]

Some things are best forgotten. :D

Kinda like the Carter Presidency, but were reminded of that every day no matter how much we try to forget. :laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

Kinda like the Carter Presidency, but were reminded of that every day no matter how much we try to forget. :laugh2:

Like a bad rash that keeps coming back. :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

Like a bad rash that keeps coming back. :laugh2:

I would rather have the bad rash......... :poke:

[avatar4321]

still not hearing any answers...

[glockmail]

Don't hold your breath.

[theHawk]

You arrogant neocons!
Haven't you seen sIckO yet? Our health care is in shambles.
Also all of the poor illegal immigrants aren't getting all the welfare they deserve. They should be getting social security and we should be sending their children to college for free! This is our future generation!
Rich people are plundering from the poor and this should be corrected. Why should poor people have to try to get an education or training to get a good job when the rich make so much money.



:laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

You arrogant neocons!
Haven't you seen sIckO yet? Our health care is in shambles.
Also all of the poor illegal immigrants aren't getting all the welfare they deserve. They should be getting social security and we should be sending their children to college for free! This is our future generation!
Rich people are plundering from the poor and this should be corrected. Why should poor people have to try to get an education or training to get a good job when the rich make so much money.



:laugh2:


And have you seen those Christmas trees and nativity scenes displayed at Christmas time? Shocking and demoralizing. Shield your children's eyes! And all those Christians still going to church? It's enough to make you want to escape to Cuba.

[Hagbard Celine]

The middle class is disappearing. Most skill-based jobs have been shipped overseas. Rich people are getting richer while poor people are getting poorer. Public education is horrible and is getting worse while the rest of the world surpasses us in test scores all the while, tuition rates are skyrocketing.

You say there's high employment, and there is, but you have to look at where the jobs are: McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc. An unskilled, uneducated workforce is useless, not to mention service jobs don't include benefits. So we're looking at a future filled with uneducated, unskilled, broke-ass, unhealthy fry cookers. What a bright future! I'll have to wear shades!

And freedom isn't spreading. China is still Communist if you haven't noticed. Iraq is in anarchy. Iran is a theocratic, shariah nightmare. Hugo Chavez is on a crusade to convert the whole of South America into a socio/communist hornets nest, even the UK is coming closer and closer to a full-on police state with each and every terrorist attack that it gets hit with.

You've got to stop buying into the propaganda and take a real look around you. Take a look out your window: Do you see a factory or a small business or do you see a place where consumers can go to buy stuff?

[Kathianne]

I'm not going to say 'everything is so bad', but I will say that the administration has failed real attempts at curtailing out of control domesting spending, has increased foreign aid by record breaking amounts, while fighting a hot war. This administration had 6 years with a Republican congress, but failed in communicating with that Congress, while bending every which way to try to 'bridge' communications with a hostile minority party. Much like the war strategy, the intentions may have been good, but they kept up a losing strategy much longer than wise.

Regarding the war, it finally looks as if they may be making progress yet they only respond to the pounding they are taking, when it appears that the newly Democratic led Congress may take actions that would stop the war or end it early. The failure to communicate with the people, party, and congress is part and parcel of what led to a major erosion of approval.

Then there have what may have been 'missteps' but turned into huge political liabilities. Harriet Miers, the ports deal, and most seriously, the immigration reform bill. A Republican president actually calls his base bigots, actively works with Democratic leadership while thumbing his nose at Republican leadership.

I am not going to say I won't vote Republican in the future, for I will. However, I do think that any administration must listen to the people, the total deafness on the Immigration Act was not only a deafness to the Republican base, but the majority of independent voters, and near majority of Democratic voters. Thus on a very serious issue, this administration ignored the majority of US citizens who saw the problem as a threat to US security.

Those are pretty serious problems, IMO.

[glockmail]

The middle class is disappearing. Most skill-based jobs have been shipped overseas. Rich people are getting richer while poor people are getting poorer. Public education is horrible and is getting worse while the rest of the world surpasses us in test scores all the while, tuition rates are skyrocketing.

.....

Poor are not gettin poorer. They live in the lap of luxury compared with the rst of the world and with the average guy in the 1940's.

Public edumacation sucks because it is pwned by the liberal establishment. Bush's policies have improved it, but until libs accept tuition vouchers it can't get much better. Teachers have their hands tied.

Tuition rates as well have been skyrocketting since the 1960's. Again its the liberal establishment's deal, not Bush's.

[GW in Ohio]

The middle class is disappearing. Most skill-based jobs have been shipped overseas. Rich people are getting richer while poor people are getting poorer. Public education is horrible and is getting worse while the rest of the world surpasses us in test scores all the while, tuition rates are skyrocketing.

You say there's high employment, and there is, but you have to look at where the jobs are: McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc. An unskilled, uneducated workforce is useless, not to mention service jobs don't include benefits. So we're looking at a future filled with uneducated, unskilled, broke-ass, unhealthy fry cookers. What a bright future! I'll have to wear shades!

And freedom isn't spreading. China is still Communist if you haven't noticed. Iraq is in anarchy. Iran is a theocratic, shariah nightmare. Hugo Chavez is on a crusade to convert the whole of South America into a socio/communist hornets nest, even the UK is coming closer and closer to a full-on police state with each and every terrorist attack that it gets hit with.

You've got to stop buying into the propaganda and take a real look around you. Take a look out your window: Do you see a factory or a small business or do you see a place where consumers can go to buy stuff?


And if you're not a right-wing wacko who believes everything babbled by Rush Limbaugh via the Oxycontin-laced EIB golden microphone, you're aware that we are in the middle of an environmental crisis.

To paraphrase future Nobel Laureate Al Gore: Earth is in the balance.

[Hagbard Celine]

Poor are not gettin poorer. They live in the lap of luxury compared with the rst of the world and with the average guy in the 1940's.

Public edumacation sucks because it is pwned by the liberal establishment. Bush's policies have improved it, but until libs accept tuition vouchers it can't get much better. Teachers have their hands tied.

Tuition rates as well have been skyrocketting since the 1960's. Again its the liberal establishment's deal, not Bush's.

Dude, there is no "liberal establishment." Over 50 percent of the US population can be considered "conservative." The "liberal establishment" as well as the "vast liberal media conspiracy" (which somehow apparently rules all media even though talk radio headed by Rush Limbaugh, conservative 24-hour news networks and even advertising caters to white, middle-class men between ages 18-49) are a conservative fairytale designed to scare listeners/viewers into tuning back in tomorrow.

[glockmail]

Dude, there is no "liberal establishment." Over 50 percent of the US population can be considered "conservative." The "liberal establishment" as well as the "vast liberal media conspiracy" (which somehow apparently rules all media even though talk radio headed by Rush Limbaugh, conservative 24-hour news networks and even advertising caters to white, middle-class men between ages 18-49) are a conservative fairytale designed to scare listeners/viewers into tuning back in tomorrow.


Do you honestly believe that public schools and most colleges are not controlled by liberals?

Come on, fess up. Tell me what you've been smoking.

[nevadamedic]

Dude, there is no "liberal establishment." Over 50 percent of the US population can be considered "conservative." The "liberal establishment" as well as the "vast liberal media conspiracy" (which somehow apparently rules all media even though talk radio headed by Rush Limbaugh, conservative 24-hour news networks and even advertising caters to white, middle-class men between ages 18-49) are a conservative fairytale designed to scare listeners/viewers into tuning back in tomorrow.

:link::link::link::link::link::link:

[theHawk]

The middle class is disappearing. Most skill-based jobs have been shipped overseas. Rich people are getting richer while poor people are getting poorer. Public education is horrible and is getting worse while the rest of the world surpasses us in test scores all the while, tuition rates are skyrocketing.
Do you have any evidence that the "poor people are getting poorer"? Not sure what that means, but the so called poor people in this country live a hell of a lot better lifestyle than people in other countries. Call me heartless but I'm sorry if I don't feel anything for the young latinos and young black people that live in 'poverty' when they choose to spend what money they do have on bling bling and 20" rims on their hoopty.




You say there's high employment, and there is, but you have to look at where the jobs are: McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc. An unskilled, uneducated workforce is useless, not to mention service jobs don't include benefits. So we're looking at a future filled with uneducated, unskilled, broke-ass, unhealthy fry cookers. What a bright future! I'll have to wear shades!
I used to work on a fry cooker myself, yet I seemed to have made it out of there and onto bigger and better things. You'd be surprised how many people working in that industry that are perfectly happy where they are. Of course anyone would like to have a high paying desk job handed to them, but most of the older people that choose to work at those places do nothing to further their own education. Lets not forget that most of the poeple that are "rich" and well educated came from familys that had those very same low income workers. The difference is our parents/grandparents actually saved the money they made and used it for their children, and they did so without taking tax money from the government. Whereas today most of the "poor" choose to spend their money on big screen TVs. Anyway, in all your griping about our system, you didn't offer a solution. I'll assume it will have something to do with taxing people like me, "the rich," and giving it to the poor.



And freedom isn't spreading. China is still Communist if you haven't noticed. Iraq is in anarchy. Iran is a theocratic, shariah nightmare. Hugo Chavez is on a crusade to convert the whole of South America into a socio/communist hornets nest, even the UK is coming closer and closer to a full-on police state with each and every terrorist attack that it gets hit with.
Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious. And what's your solution to all this? Hold each other's hands and sing Kumbaya?





You've got to stop buying into the propaganda and take a real look around you. Take a look out your window: Do you see a factory or a small business or do you see a place where consumers can go to buy stuff?
And whats your solution to bring back the factories? I'd like to see more of them come back as well. I'd start by putting tarriffs on imported goods from countries like China.

[Hagbard Celine]

Do you have any evidence that the "poor people are getting poorer"? Not sure what that means, but the so called poor people in this country live a hell of a lot better lifestyle than people in other countries. Call me heartless but I'm sorry if I don't feel anything for the young latinos and young black people that live in 'poverty' when they choose to spend what money they do have on bling bling and 20" rims on their hoopty.You're right. The problem lies in the culture, but that "thug" culture is the result of decades of poverty and ignorance brought-on in large part by the lesser treatment of blacks and hispanics by white society. You can't deny that they were denied education, equal facilities, etc. from the time of the civil war up until the civil rights era. It's only been a generation since then, so I think they deserve more than cynicism.


I used to work on a fry cooker myself, yet I seemed to have made it out of there and onto bigger and better things. You'd be surprised how many people working in that industry that are perfectly happy where they are. Of course anyone would like to have a high paying desk job handed to them, but most of the older people that choose to work at those places do nothing to further their own education. Lets not forget that most of the poeple that are "rich" and well educated came from familys that had those very same low income workers. The difference is our parents/grandparents actually saved the money they made and used it for their children, and they did so without taking tax money from the government. Whereas today most of the "poor" choose to spend their money on big screen TVs. Anyway, in all your griping about our system, you didn't offer a solution. I'll assume it will have something to do with taxing people like me, "the rich," and giving it to the poor. The problem is that with ONLY service jobs available to them, the uneducated classes don't make enough money to save anything, much less the amount needed to send even one kid to college. The only "solution" is to keep going forward and keep doing good in the world. Become a "big brother" or coach a little league team or something. Jesus said the poor would always be among us and Muhammad said that God will never change a people unless they change themselves first. There's no use in trying to find a permanent "solution" to poverty, because it doesn't exist, but putting public support into ways for people to get out of poverty is a good first step. Another would be not exporting skilled jobs overseas just because Johnny Chink or Jose Mexicana will do the job cheaper. We need to hold US corporations accountable for doing what's right for their country instead of just what's right for the bottom line.


Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious. And what's your solution to all this? Hold each other's hands and sing Kumbaya?Nice sarcasm smartass. That's the problem with Americans. We're all so fat and happy that we don't even care about each other anymore. All we care about is being "right" and getting "ours." We don't need a solution for all these foreign countries. We need to deal with them through diplomacy like everyone else does and concentrate our effort on our own country. "Spreading democracy" shouldn't be the US's goal in the world. The US's goal in the world should be to make itself a shining example of what a democracy is supposed to be.


And whats your solution to bring back the factories? I'd like to see more of them come back as well. I'd start by putting tarriffs on imported goods from countries like China.An import tariff would be a good idea. Another would be holding corporate America accountable. They want us to buy their crap, but they aren't willing to give anything in return other than more crap. Where does that leave us? We're a bunch of bovine consumers working brainless service jobs and living on credit above our means so that we can buy more crap. Meanwhile, the corporations are basically using slave labor to make their crap and the fatcats sitting at the top of the temple are the only ones profiting all the while, lobbyists are convincing the public that corporations should be treated the same as individuals, but that's crap and yet the public buys it.

[jimnyc]

And if you're not a right-wing wacko who believes everything babbled by Rush Limbaugh via the Oxycontin-laced EIB golden microphone, you're aware that we are in the middle of an environmental crisis.

To paraphrase future Nobel Laureate Al Gore: Earth is in the balance.

I wanted to reply to your post so that you didn't feel lonely. I noticed that less and less of your "non judgmental" rubbish is being responded to.

And we listen even less to Al Bore.

[theHawk]

You're right. The problem lies in the culture, but that "thug" culture is the result of decades of poverty and ignorance brought-on in large part by the lesser treatment of blacks and hispanics by white society. You can't deny that they were denied education, equal facilities, etc. from the time of the civil war up until the civil rights era. It's only been a generation since then, so I think they deserve more than cynicism.
Nobody in this current generation was denied any education or equal facilities. I was educated in the same facilities as a bunch of mexicans in southern Cali. So that is not an excuse for why many of them have gone nowhere fast and 'the white kids' like myself moved on. But oh, thats right, white society is holding them back. Yet I work side by side with hispanics and blacks that are smart as fuck and make more money than I do. How did they get were they are today? My guess is by studying in school and working their asses off just like everyone else who becomes successful in life.
If you think they deserve more, feel free to bust out your checkbook and give as much as you want to them.




The problem is that with ONLY service jobs available to them, the uneducated classes don't make enough money to save anything, much less the amount needed to send even one kid to college. The only "solution" is to keep going forward and keep doing good in the world. Become a "big brother" or coach a little league team or something. Jesus said the poor would always be among us and Muhammad said that God will never change a people unless they change themselves first. There's no use in trying to find a permanent "solution" to poverty, because it doesn't exist, but putting public support into ways for people to get out of poverty is a good first step. Another would be not exporting skilled jobs overseas just because Johnny Chink or Jose Mexicana will do the job cheaper. We need to hold US corporations accountable for doing what's right for their country instead of just what's right for the bottom line.
Well I don't really understand what you're griping about. You seem to conceed to the fact that there will always be low skill jobs, hence low income jobs, yet complain that corporations are doing whats right for the bottom line. Unless you're suggesting that we start paying hamburger flippers $20 an hour, don't really know what you solution is.



Nice sarcasm smartass. That's the problem with Americans. We're all so fat and happy that we don't even care about each other anymore. All we care about is being "right" and getting "ours." We don't need a solution for all these foreign countries. We need to deal with them through diplomacy like everyone else does and concentrate our effort on our own country. "Spreading democracy" shouldn't be the US's goal in the world. The US's goal in the world should be to make itself a shining example of what a democracy is supposed to be.
True, maybe we could be a better "role model" for everyone else in the world. We were for 200 years, but that didn't seem to prevent socialism, communism and totalitarianism to spread through the world as it has. You can't blame Bush for what's already been happening in the world for the last 100 years.



An import tariff would be a good idea. Another would be holding corporate America accountable. They want us to buy their crap, but they aren't willing to give anything in return other than more crap. Where does that leave us? We're a bunch of bovine consumers working brainless service jobs and living on credit above our means so that we can buy more crap. Meanwhile, the corporations are basically using slave labor to make their crap and the fatcats sitting at the top of the temple are the only ones profiting all the while, lobbyists are convincing the public that corporations should be treated the same as individuals, but that's crap and yet the public buys it.
"Corporate America" is already held accountable to things like environmental laws and employment laws. Which is exactly what has risen the cost of running a business here, as opposed to other countries where no such laws exist. If you agree with me that outsourcing is bad for America then we need to hold foriegn countries/corporations accountable, to the same degree we already hold our own in. Because as long as we import products from and outsource jobs to these other countries that aren't held accountable they will always hold the "bottom line" edge.

[nevadamedic]

The middle class is disappearing. Most skill-based jobs have been shipped overseas. Rich people are getting richer while poor people are getting poorer. Public education is horrible and is getting worse while the rest of the world surpasses us in test scores all the while, tuition rates are skyrocketing.

You say there's high employment, and there is, but you have to look at where the jobs are: McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc. An unskilled, uneducated workforce is useless, not to mention service jobs don't include benefits. So we're looking at a future filled with uneducated, unskilled, broke-ass, unhealthy fry cookers. What a bright future! I'll have to wear shades!

And freedom isn't spreading. China is still Communist if you haven't noticed. Iraq is in anarchy. Iran is a theocratic, shariah nightmare. Hugo Chavez is on a crusade to convert the whole of South America into a socio/communist hornets nest, even the UK is coming closer and closer to a full-on police state with each and every terrorist attack that it gets hit with.

You've got to stop buying into the propaganda and take a real look around you. Take a look out your window: Do you see a factory or a small business or do you see a place where consumers can go to buy stuff?

The majority of the businesses around her are small and family owned. So yes I do see them. I also tend to use a small family business every time rather then goto other chain stores, even if it cost's a little more.

[Hagbard Celine]

Nobody in this current generation was denied any education or equal facilities. I was educated in the same facilities as a bunch of mexicans in southern Cali. So that is not an excuse for why many of them have gone nowhere fast and 'the white kids' like myself moved on. But oh, thats right, white society is holding them back. Yet I work side by side with hispanics and blacks that are smart as fuck and make more money than I do. How did they get were they are today? My guess is by studying in school and working their asses off just like everyone else who becomes successful in life.
If you think they deserve more, feel free to bust out your checkbook and give as much as you want to them.I didn't say white society is holding them back. I said white society held them back. Before the civil rights movement. You're right, there's no substitute for hard work other than really, really good luck :cheers2:


Well I don't really understand what you're griping about. You seem to conceed to the fact that there will always be low skill jobs, hence low income jobs, yet complain that corporations are doing whats right for the bottom line. Unless you're suggesting that we start paying hamburger flippers $20 an hour, don't really know what you solution is."Griping?" The reason skilled jobs are being exported overseas and taken away from hardworking Americans is because of corporations taking care of their bottom line before doing what's right for the country and their employees, end of story.


True, maybe we could be a better "role model" for everyone else in the world. We were for 200 years, but that didn't seem to prevent socialism, communism and totalitarianism to spread through the world as it has. You can't blame Bush for what's already been happening in the world for the last 100 years.I haven't mentioned Bush.


"Corporate America" is already held accountable to things like environmental laws and employment laws. Which is exactly what has risen the cost of running a business here, as opposed to other countries where no such laws exist. If you agree with me that outsourcing is bad for America then we need to hold foriegn countries/corporations accountable, to the same degree we already hold our own in. Because as long as we import products from and outsource jobs to these other countries that aren't held accountable they will always hold the "bottom line" edge.The corporations aren't held accountable for nearly enough. They have way more money and power than individual citizens so it isn't fair to the rest of us that they get the same rights as individual citizens. Corporate lobbyists have singlehandedly changed the face of America and America's politics over the past 30 years--they've turned Americans into faceless consumers and they give nothing back to us in return for our consumption. The reason we "outsource" jobs is because the corporations are the ones doing the outsourcing!
As an aside, one of the reasons American employers can't compete with the cheap labor of foreign markets is because they are burdened with the expense of health benefits and pensions--something foreigners have taken care of with public healthcare programs. :dunno: