61,000,000

[Perianne]

I am one of those.


There are a record 61 million immigrants and their American-born children in the United States, including an estimated 15.7 million illegally here, according to a new analysis of 2015 U.S. Census data.


The estimated number of undocumented immigrants is one of the highest ever.


The analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies found that 45.3 million, or three-fourths of the 61 million, are legal immigrants and their children. The report out Monday notes that the so-called "Gang of Eight" immigration bill supported by GOP presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio would have doubled that number of legal immigrants.



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-record-61-million-immigrants-in-u.s.-15.7-million-illegally/article/2585110

[jimnyc]

The estimated number of undocumented immigrants is one of the highest ever.

They still refer to them with that crap? I prefer to call them criminals.

[NightTrain]

Those are huge numbers.

I have no problem with legal immigration, it's the illegals that get my goat.

That being said, I do have a problem with work visas being handed out by the truckload. The most galling was the Disneyland story where the American workers were pressured into training their foreign replacements who were willing to work for less pay. That's one of the factors that is killing our economy - that money is largely sent back home overseas and we've added to more unemployment. That was just one story, there are many more just like it.

I don't care if it's difficult to find American employees - all that means is you're not willing to pay them enough. I'm pretty sure you'll have a long line for lawnmowing jobs at $10 / hour. If jacked up rates are the result, so be it. Keeping costs artificially low by hiring Hindus en masse only benefits the foreign workers and the employer's profit margins.

The same for seasonal migrant workers picking fruits & vegetables. Pay Americans enough and they'll do it. If we all have to pay 5 cents more per tomato, then so be it. The money stays here and we all benefit.

[Kathianne]

Those are huge numbers.

I have no problem with legal immigration, it's the illegals that get my goat.

That being said, I do have a problem with work visas being handed out by the truckload. The most galling was the Disneyland story where the American workers were pressured into training their foreign replacements who were willing to work for less pay. That's one of the factors that is killing our economy - that money is largely sent back home overseas and we've added to more unemployment. That was just one story, there are many more just like it.

I don't care if it's difficult to find American employees - all that means is you're not willing to pay them enough. I'm pretty sure you'll have a long line for lawnmowing jobs at $10 / hour. If jacked up rates are the result, so be it. Keeping costs artificially low by hiring Hindus en masse only benefits the foreign workers and the employer's profit margins.

The same for seasonal migrant workers picking fruits & vegetables. Pay Americans enough and they'll do it. If we all have to pay 5 cents more per tomato, then so be it. The money stays here and we all benefit.
I appreciate that you say this, along with criticizing what Trump said regarding the military and lawful orders. Respectfully, how do you reconcile your disagreements with his positions, is it a matter of the issues 'importance' in the great list of things under consideration? What issues are more important to you?

Not trick questions, I think we ALL vote on what issues are most important to each of us, at least if we put thought into our decision.

[NightTrain]

I appreciate that you say this, along with criticizing what Trump said regarding the military and lawful orders. Respectfully, how do you reconcile your disagreements with his positions, is it a matter of the issues 'importance' in the great list of things under consideration? What issues are more important to you?

Not trick questions, I think we ALL vote on what issues are most important to each of us, at least if we put thought into our decision.

We didn't talk about this before, but I didn't like Trump's answers about that either.

I don't care if he has to add $1 per round or $5 to a membership fee to cover hiring Americans. It's the right thing to do.

If you're doing business in America, you hire Americans to do it unless there is a specific skill set that can't be acquired here - then, by all means, get your H1B worker.

But I'm positive that there are Americans smart enough to push a lawnmower or wield a Weed Whacker.

[Kathianne]

We didn't talk about this before, but I didn't like Trump's answers about that either.

I don't care if he has to add $1 per round or $5 to a membership fee to cover hiring Americans. It's the right thing to do.

If you're doing business in America, you hire Americans to do it unless there is a specific skill set that can't be acquired here - then, by all means, get your H1B worker.

But I'm positive that there are Americans smart enough to push a lawnmower or wield a Weed Whacker.

I agree. The workers at Disney and many other companies were working for their wages. So the reason 'jobs Americans won't do,' just doesn't hold water.

Same with the buildings Trump is doing in FL and NY, plenty of applications from Americans, but visa holders brought in, then sent back.

[Kathianne]

Indeed:

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3039353/it-careers/sen-durbin-calls-abbott-labs-it-layoffs-harsh-and-insensitive.html

Something we want our candidate to support? Foreign workers trained by soon-to-be-unemployed Americans?

[NightTrain]

Indeed:

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3039353/it-careers/sen-durbin-calls-abbott-labs-it-layoffs-harsh-and-insensitive.html

Something we want our candidate to support? Foreign workers trained by soon-to-be-unemployed Americans?

Training your own replacement, unless you're voluntarily moving, is a huge mistake. Even then, you have to look out for your coworkers.


A few years back there was a company that wanted to import semi-knowledgeable telecom guys from Florida because they'd happily work for about $25 / hour LESS than what the guys here made.

The employees on the chopping block sensibly refused to train these new guys. So the company turned to our company, since we are contractors, and wanted to hire us to train the new guys because we built their network and knew it inside and out.

Our boss called us in for a meeting and asked our opinions because he really wanted to bid the job. We all said there was no way in hell we were going to train these new guys - sure, it would have put money in our pocket in the short term, but anyone can see where that is headed in the long run. We declined the bid and that company was forced to abandon the idea. That move protected the prevailing wage in our industry here.

If you have a specific skill set, you guard that knowledge jealously or you'll quickly find yourself competing with other workers willing to work for a quarter of scale, and you're soon out of a job or working for peanuts.

[Kathianne]

Training your own replacement, unless you're voluntarily moving, is a huge mistake. Even then, you have to look out for your coworkers.


A few years back there was a company that wanted to import semi-knowledgeable telecom guys from Florida because they'd happily work for about $25 / hour LESS than what the guys here made.

The employees on the chopping block sensibly refused to train these new guys. So the company turned to our company, since we are contractors, and wanted to hire us to train the new guys because we built their network and knew it inside and out.

Our boss called us in for a meeting and asked our opinions because he really wanted to bid the job. We all said there was no way in hell we were going to train these new guys - sure, it would have put money in our pocket in the short term, but anyone can see where that is headed in the long run. We declined the bid and that company was forced to abandon the idea. That move protected the prevailing wage in our industry here.

If you have a specific skill set, you guard that knowledge jealously or you'll quickly find yourself competing with other workers willing to work for a quarter of scale, and you're soon out of a job or working for peanuts.

From what I understand their choice is, 'leave now' or 'train then leave.' If one has a family, but no job offer, one stays for as long as possible.

[NightTrain]

From what I understand their choice is, 'leave now' or 'train then leave.' If one has a family, but no job offer, one stays for as long as possible.

In that scenario, I'd call their bluff without question.

In the story I gave above, the company in question said the same thing. Training your replacement is cutting your own throat, and it cuts the throats of all of your peers in the industry - locally speaking, of course.

[Kathianne]

In that scenario, I'd call their bluff without question.

In the story I gave above, the company in question said the same thing. Training your replacement is cutting your own throat, and it cuts the throats of all of your peers in the industry - locally speaking, of course.

I see your point, but if it means walking immediately to your home with a mortgage and kids to feed, the walk is long.

[Gunny]

I am one of those.



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-record-61-million-immigrants-in-u.s.-15.7-million-illegally/article/2585110

Here's a question for Kath. And don't get mad at me. I hate it when you get mad at me.

My great-great-great-great whoever the Hell amount of greats their are were named John and John Quincy Adams. Undocumented.

[Kathianne]

Here's a question for Kath. And don't get mad at me. I hate it when you get mad at me.

My great-great-great-great whoever the Hell amount of greats their are were named John and John Quincy Adams. Undocumented.

Won't get mad, just not sure I understand what you're asking here. Are you holding the baby? :laugh:

[NightTrain]

I see your point, but if it means walking immediately to your home with a mortgage and kids to feed, the walk is long.

Yeah, it is. It's a hard decision to make. There's always bills and never enough money, I know how that goes.

People in that situation have to look at the big picture and beyond short term, though. Getting them to see it is a challenge, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which course is ultimately in their best interest.

[SassyLady]

I wonder if the people being replaced would agree to work at the same wage as the incoming workers they are asked to train. If so, then there would be no need to replace them.

Would I train my replacement? Probably not. Instead I would immediately sign up with temp agency and would be working there while looking for permanent job. If the company wants to replace me with cheaper labor then I'm not going to give the incoming workers my expertise unless the company pays me double as if I were a consultant coming in to train.

[Abbey Marie]

Was severance pay contingent on them staying and training? That's very hard to walk away from, especially if you are about to be unemployed.

[Kathianne]

Was severance pay contingent on them staying and training? That's very hard to walk away from, especially if you are about to be unemployed.

I know with some of the IT positions it was.

[Perianne]

I wonder if the people being replaced would agree to work at the same wage as the incoming workers they are asked to train. If so, then there would be no need to replace them.

Would I train my replacement? Probably not. Instead I would immediately sign up with temp agency and would be working there while looking for permanent job. If the company wants to replace me with cheaper labor then I'm not going to give the incoming workers my expertise unless the company pays me double as if I were a consultant coming in to train.

I would go to the next hospital and get a job the same day.