GOP / CBS Debate

[NightTrain]

I tuned in late... just in time for Trump to piss me off about Dubya and "lies about WMD". He'd better drop that crap, it pissed me off and he got booed roundly for it, too.

[tailfins]

I tuned in late... just in time for Trump to piss me off about Dubya and "lies about WMD". He'd better drop that crap, it pissed me off and he got booed roundly for it, too.

You are witnessing the #RealDonaldTrump .

[Black Diamond]

You are witnessing the #RealDonaldTrump .

How is that going to play in the primary?

[Abbey Marie]

I tuned in late... just in time for Trump to piss me off about Dubya and "lies about WMD". He'd better drop that crap, it pissed me off and he got booed roundly for it, too.
i just logged in to say this exact thing. I'm pissed. And Rubio and Jeb are doing great.

[Perianne]

I am at work, but I have it on DVR. I will watch it in the morning.

[NightTrain]

I have to say... Trump really lost a lot of points with me tonight on that rant against Dubya being responsible for WTC and the WMD bullshit.

Kudos to Rubio for setting him straight on that, he did that masterfully.

[NightTrain]

Holy hell, this is a full on brawl!

[Perianne]

Holy hell, this is a full on brawl!

I am certainly glad I recorded it!!!!

[Abbey Marie]

The audience loves Rubio.

[Kathianne]

I find Kasich very annoying. It's pretty much been Trump and Bush, with a bit of Cruz and Rubio thrown in.

[Black Diamond]

I have to say... Trump really lost a lot of points with me tonight on that rant against Dubya being responsible for WTC and the WMD bullshit.

Kudos to Rubio for setting him straight on that, he did that masterfully.

Jeb made the claim his brother kept us safe in an early Debate. It was insulting. I get defending your brother and I don't blame W for 9/11. But don't say he kept us safe. That's insulting.

[Kathianne]

Cruz hit Trump on Carson attacks. Now going for abortions/planned parenthood; Trump defending Planned Parenthood-in some areas.

This is now turning into a free-for-all.

If Trump had left 'the family alone,' he may have avoided all of this.

Surreal.

[Black Diamond]

Cruz hit Trump on Carson attacks. Now going for abortions/planned parenthood; Trump defending Planned Parenthood-in some areas.

This is now turning into a free-for-all.

If Trump had left 'the family alone,' he may have avoided all of this.

Surreal.
I agree. This is a blood bath.

[NightTrain]

Jeb made the claim his brother kept us safe in an early Debate. It was insulting. I get defending your brother and I don't blame W for 9/11. But don't say he kept us safe. That's insulting.

Disagree.

Dubya did keep us safe. 9/11 was squarely Clinton's fault, and Bush ended up with a really bad situation right out of the gate. Those terrorists were already in America and training for the 9/11 flights.

I can't recall any terrorist attacks in America after we went on full alert after 9/11 - so Dubya did keep us safe.

[Kathianne]

Disagree.

Dubya did keep us safe. 9/11 was squarely Clinton's fault, and Bush ended up with a really bad situation right out of the gate. Those terrorists were already in America and training for the 9/11 flights.

I can't recall any terrorist attacks in America after we went on full alert after 9/11 - so Dubya did keep us safe.

I agree. For a president coming off a very weird election, followed by entry to the presidency with a prior administration that not only wasn't cooperative, actually trashed some of the WH equipment. Because of the length of the election, filling positions wasn't able to be done as the norm.

Folks seem to forget that he'd been in office 7 months whe 9/11 happened and there was chatter that was being picked up from the Spring. Efforts were being made, but the dots were not able to be connected. That would be on Clinton, but Bush didn't blame him or anyone else. He blamed Al Queda. Weird concept, no?

To 'keep us safe' he was able to propose and get War in Iraq and many domestic responses-all with Congressional and popular support.

That some of these agencies and laws have gone down roads before and after Obama, I won't disagree. I don't like Homeland Security-the idea was good, but added just more bureaucratic layers which creates more inefficiency.

However, criticism of that by anyone, including myself, is 20/20. At the time it seemed like a very good idea, along with the Patriot Act, another mistake imo, again in retrospect.

[NightTrain]

I guess an argument could be made with the USS Cole in Yemen... but that was overseas and against a legitimate military target. It was sneaky, but IMO that doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist attack.

[Black Diamond]

Disagree.

Dubya did keep us safe. 9/11 was squarely Clinton's fault, and Bush ended up with a really bad situation right out of the gate. Those terrorists were already in America and training for the 9/11 flights.

I can't recall any terrorist attacks in America after we went on full alert after 9/11 - so Dubya did keep us safe.
It may have been Clinton's fault but w didn't keep us safe. Sorry but that's insulting. And I said this immediately after Jeb said it.

It was wrong of trump to go after W for " not trusting his CIA.". That is Monday quarterbacking. I also don't think Bush "knew Saddam didn't have weapons".

[Black Diamond]

I guess an argument could be made with the USS Cole in Yemen... but that was overseas and against a legitimate military target. It was sneaky, but IMO that doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist attack.

Agreed.

[Kathianne]

I guess an argument could be made with the USS Cole in Yemen... but that was overseas and against a legitimate military target. It was sneaky, but IMO that doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist attack.

I think it was a precursor of what what going on. While outraged, I don't think most people saw it for what it was at the time, Clinton didn't really want to focus on it, naturally. He never really held anyone 'accountable,' though it was obviously a terror attack.

Here's some interesting reading:

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/

[Black Diamond]

I think it was a precursor of what what going on. While outraged, I don't think most people saw it for what it was at the time, Clinton didn't really want to focus on it, naturally. He never really held anyone 'accountable,' though it was obviously a terror attack.

Here's some interesting reading:

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/

I don't think anyone could have imagined 9/11 happening beccause of the Cole incident. I agree with you about 20/20..

[NightTrain]

It may have been Clinton's fault but w didn't keep us safe. Sorry but that's insulting. And I said this immediately after Jeb said it.

It was wrong of trump to go after W for " not trusting his CIA.". That is Monday quarterbacking. I also don't think Bush "knew Saddam didn't have weapons".


Well, I don't blame Bush for not catching terrorists already operating inside the USA when he was seated as President. Especially in light of Clinton being offered OBL on a silver platter after the first WTC bombing and he declined... in my mind, Clinton is 100% responsible for that.


Trump was way out of line tonight. That wasn't the first time he spouted BS about Dubya and what happened, and I was hoping he'd educated himself since that first gaffe.

It would appear he didn't, and in fact tonight he doubled down on all that crap - I hate to say it, but those lines he uttered were right out of a typical liberal's mouth. "Bush lied!" "No WMDs!" "Bush was responsible for 9/11".

That kind of shit is a dealbreaker to me. I have to reconsider who my guy is now... probably Cruz. I don't know.

I'm still leery of Rubio's immigration, but he did well tonight.


I will say, this debate tonight was THE most action-packed debate I've ever seen. At one point I was wondering if fisticuffs were about to be displayed! :laugh:

[Kathianne]

I don't think anyone could have imagined 9/11 happening beccause of the Cole incident. I agree with you about 20/20..

Not an air attack, not WTC coming down, but the threat being real and growing? I did and I'm not a genius. Anyone who remembered the attacks on Beirut, Iran hostages, Kohbar Towers, First WTC bombings, the USS Cole was an escalation and expansion. The threat was growing.

[Black Diamond]

Well, I don't blame Bush for not catching terrorists already operating inside the USA when he was seated as President. Especially in light of Clinton being offered OBL on a silver platter after the first WTC bombing and he declined... in my mind, Clinton is 100% responsible for that.


Trump was way out of line tonight. That wasn't the first time he spouted BS about Dubya and what happened, and I was hoping he'd educated himself since that first gaffe.

It would appear he didn't, and in fact tonight he doubled down on all that crap - I hate to say it, but those lines he uttered were right out of a typical liberal's mouth. "Bush lied!" "No WMDs!" "Bush was responsible for 9/11".

That kind of shit is a dealbreaker to me. I have to reconsider who my guy is now... probably Cruz. I don't know.

I'm still leery of Rubio's immigration, but he did well tonight.


I will say, this debate tonight was THE most action-packed debate I've ever seen. At one point I was wondering if fisticuffs were about to be displayed! :laugh:
Saying Bush didn't keep us safe isn't the same as blaming him for 9/11_ I don't blame FDR for Pearl Harbor, but he didn't keep us safe either.

[Black Diamond]

Not an air attack, not WTC coming down, but the threat being real and growing? I did and I'm not a genius. Anyone who remembered the attacks on Beirut, Iran hostages, Kohbar Towers, First WTC bombings, the USS Cole was an escalation and expansion. The threat was growing.

Bin laden should have been killed. The school he was in should have been leveled. It's called collateral damage.

[Kathianne]

Bin laden should have been killed. The school he was in should have been leveled. It's called collateral damage.

So why didn't Clinton do so? Polling.

[Black Diamond]

So why didn't Clinton do so? Polling.

Because he's a liberal. Just like obama. And we will pay for Obama's crap ten fold I fear.

[NightTrain]

Saying Bush didn't keep us safe isn't the same as blaming him for 9/11_ I don't blame FDR for Pearl Harbor, but he didn't keep us safe either.


I'm not following you, BD.

We didn't have any terrorist attacks on American soil from 9/11 on... how didn't he keep us safe?

I haven't counted them up, but there's been a whole lot from '08 to today. The difference is dramatic.

[Black Diamond]

I'm not following you, BD.

We didn't have any terrorist attacks on American soil from 9/11 on... how didn't he keep us safe?

I haven't counted them up, but there's been a whole lot from '08 to today. The difference is dramatic.

Who was president when 9 /11 happened?

[Abbey Marie]

Saying Bush didn't keep us safe isn't the same as blaming him for 9/11_ I don't blame FDR for Pearl Harbor, but he didn't keep us safe either.

I think you have to understand that some things are just unprecedented and inconceivable. Had FDR or GWB failed to keep us safe after the first crazy attacks in their administrations, I might agree with you.

I would add that anyone who thought Rubio had a disaster in the prior debate, should be happy to admit he did great tonight. ;)

[NightTrain]

Who was president when 9 /11 happened?

Bush.

[Black Diamond]

I don't want to do to each other what happened in Republican Debate. This day has been bad enough....

[Black Diamond]

Bush.

NightTrain Kathianne

See above.

[NightTrain]

I think you have to understand that some things are just unprecedented and inconceivable. Had FDR or GWB failed to keep us safe after the first crazy attacks, I might agree with you.

Exactly, thank you.


i would add that anyone who thought Rubio had a disaster in the prior debate, should be happy to admit he did great tonight. ;)

Big difference in performances for sure. He knew he had to really step up his game this time, and he delivered.

[Black Diamond]

I think you have to understand that some things are just unprecedented and inconceivable. Had FDR or GWB failed to keep us safe after the first crazy attacks, I might agree with you.

I would add that anyone who thought Rubio had a disaster in the prior debate, should be happy to admit he did great tonight. ;)
Much better.

[Abbey Marie]

In addition to his overall strong performance, Rubio's tough defense of Bush reinvigorated my support of him as my first choice candidate.

[NightTrain]

I don't want to do to each other what happened in Republican Debate. This day has been bad enough....


I'm not angry, BD! Sorry if I'm sounding short, I'm enjoying discussing with you and curious why you think that.

I kind of abbreviate my typings when I'm tired.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't want to do to each other what happened in Republican Debate. This day has been bad enough....

You ok?

[Kathianne]

In addition to his overall strong performance, Rubio's tough defense of Bush reinvigorated my support of him as my first choice candidate.

I believed that the NH debate was blown out of proportion by the media and the still vast number of GOP candidates. He was 'bad' for about 10 minutes and recovered.

How many debates now, hopefully 10 minutes of one won't make or break his run.

I think Bush also had a very good night.

Cruz had his moments, but seemed tired.

I think Trump was the loser tonight, he really lost it. His feelings against the Bush family seems to make him crazy.

[Black Diamond]

I'm not angry, BD! Sorry if I'm sounding short, I'm enjoying discussing with you and curious why you think that.

I kind of abbreviate my typings when I'm tired.

I think if jeb had said a few weeks ago what he said tonight about the security apparatus it wouldn't have stung so hard. Trump DID blame Bush in that jhe said Bush didn't trust his CIA which is Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Black Diamond]

You ok?

Personally? Yes. But I think this could turn out to be one of the worst days in American history. When I got the message on my phone that scalia was dead, my heart sank. America may cease to exist as we know it. Moreso than before even.

[NightTrain]

Personally? Yes. But I think this could turn out to be one of the worst days in American history. When I got the message on my phone that scalia was dead, my heart sank. America may cease to exist as we know it. Moreso than before even.


As I said in the other thread, an appointment has to be blocked at all costs until the new President seated.

And if we lose this election.......... bleh.

I don't even want to think about it.

[Black Diamond]

As I said in the other thread, an appointment has to be blocked at all costs until the new President seated.

And if we lose this election.......... bleh.

I don't even want to think about it.

Yeah. In some respects, even if Obama is blocked, if we lose, Hillary's appointee???

Pick your poison.

[jimnyc]

I have to say... Trump really lost a lot of points with me tonight on that rant against Dubya being responsible for WTC and the WMD bullshit.

Kudos to Rubio for setting him straight on that, he did that masterfully.

He dropped for me too. I know he's doing it for points, but he's going after a well liked man in many circles, and a man I think was honorable and wanted to protect America at all costs. As I stated in another thread - genuine.

But he's still tops for me. I think Cruz moved up substantially. Rubio moved up a little for me too. Same order, just closer. I think the vote will reflect this too!

[Russ]

In addition to his overall strong performance, Rubio's tough defense of Bush reinvigorated my support of him as my first choice candidate.

I agree. To me, Rubio had a great debate. Bush also did well. In fact everyone did pretty well, with one exception... Trump. Going back to NT statement that started the thread, Trump had a terrible night, and said a lot of things that just ticked off me, Abbey, NT, and the audience. Not to mention Jeb. The attack on Jeb's family was unnecessary and Trump may secretly regret it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He dropped for me too. I know he's doing it for points, but he's going after a well liked man in many circles, and a man I think was honorable and wanted to protect America at all costs. As I stated in another thread - genuine.

But he's still tops for me. I think Cruz moved up substantially. Rubio moved up a little for me too. Same order, just closer. I think the vote will reflect this too!

One bad debate, by Trump is not going to cause me to drop him.
Did anybody expect that he would win every debate??

Trump very likely took some extremely bad political advice GIVEN BY SOMEBODY HE TRUSTS IMHO.--TYR

[Black Diamond]

Trump's hatred for George W is not new. I remember him probably 10_years ago on the view telling Joy Behar that W was the worst President in American history and that weapons of mass destruction was a lie...

[jimnyc]

One bad debate, by Trump is not going to cause me to drop him.
Did anybody expect that he would win every debate??

Trump very likely took some extremely bad political advice GIVEN BY SOMEBODY HE TRUSTS IMHO.--TYR

I agree, but if I'm a "judge", he did drop some serious points.

[Abbey Marie]

One bad debate, by Trump is not going to cause me to drop him.
Did anybody expect that he would win every debate??

Trump very likely took some extremely bad political advice GIVEN BY SOMEBODY HE TRUSTS IMHO.--TYR

Tyr, you know I've been neither in love with nor hating on Trump this entire time. But I wouldn't characterize this as "one bad debate" . Trump wasn't just slipping up or forgetting a point. He was all- out vicious about a topic that touches a raw nerve to this day. I will still vote for him if he's the nominee, but at this point, he's at the bottom of my list. And this isn't because of anyone else's opinion, or any media or article. It's based on watching him say these things himself.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, you know I've been neither in love with nor hating on Trump this entire time. But I wouldn't characterize this as "one bad debate" . Trump wasn't just slipping up or forgetting a point. He was all- out vicious about a topic that touches a raw nerve to this day. I will still vote for him if he's the nominee, but at this point, he's at the bottom of my list. And this isn't because of any one else's opinion, or any media or article. It's based on watching him say these things himself.

My friend, do not think that it has not now been entered into my considerations. As I overlook no piece or move on a chessboard.
I am however, not willing to toss him over this heated and likely erroneously advised calculated attack.
My primary consideration is which candidate not only wants to reverse the obama treasonous actions but also has the balls ,
courage and "f-them all attitude" to the massively powerful foreign forces engineering the obama agenda( with obama merely being their puppet)....
Should I eventually toss him, Cruz is my next choice, with perhaps Rubio after that....
As you, I will also vote for the Republican nominee regardless of who it ends up being.
I think we fail if we refuse to do that and thus by default we are actually aiding the forces that are now deliberately weakening this nation..-Tyr

[jimnyc]

My friend, do not think that it has not now been entered into my considerations. As I overlook no piece or move on a chessboard.
I am however, not willing to toss him over this heated and likely erroneously advised calculated attack.
My primary consideration is which candidate not only wants to reverse the obama treasonous actions but also has the balls ,
courage and "f-them all attitude" to the massively powerful foreign forces engineering the obama agenda( with obama merely being their puppet)....
Should I eventually toss him, Cruz is my next choice, with perhaps Rubio after that....
As you, I will also vote for the Republican nominee regardless of who it ends up being.
I think we fail if we refuse to do that and thus by default we are actually aiding the forces that are now deliberately weakening this nation..-Tyr

Same here, I'm certainly not going to toss him over last nights debate. I don't care for his comments towards GWB, but there are much bigger fish to fry with this election. I've went about things a certain way all of my life when it came to politics. This time, I'm tossing the niceties out the window and solely looking at the issues that mean something to ME. But like I always said, to me it's the totality of a candidate. On the issues nothing has changed.

[Perianne]

In addition to his overall strong performance, Rubio's tough defense of Bush reinvigorated my support of him as my first choice candidate.

Maybe I missed something as I have only so far watched about 2/3 of the debate. I saw a mediocre debate by Rubio. But to listen to the crowd, Bush and Rubio were superheroes and Trump and Cruz were villains. Perhaps this had something to do with it:


The chairman of the local Republican Party here confirmed to local television that 2016 frontrunner billionaire Donald Trump’s concerns—and those of his closest competitor Sen. Ted Cruz—with the Republican National Committee (RNC) allocation of debate audience tickets are well-placed.


The Republican National Committee’s Sean Spicer confirmed to Breitbart News pre-debate that the RNC proper distributed 367 tickets while the state party and locally elected officials received 550 tickets. Meanwhile the debate partners—CBS News, the Peace Center, and Google—received another 100 tickets. That means more than 1000 tickets—1,017 by Spicer’s admission—went not to voters in the upcoming election and not to campaigns for equal distribution to their supporters but to special interest distribution of those connected to the party, mostly high dollar donors. Only 600 tickets were distributed equally among the six remaining GOP campaigns, which to be fair to the RNC is the highest number of tickets distributed as such so far this election cycle.


The crowd was pro-Bush and pro-Rubio, that is, establishment. And Rubio's shot at Cruz about his not speaking Spanish....tasteless. Most of the people who vote Republican don't speak Spanish. We speak English.

A dog will always return to his vomit.


By the way, Rubio, just because you talk up illegal immigration in Spanish doesn’t mean that the rest of us who don’t speak the language won’t hear about it. Maybe you should start telling people why anyone should believe a word you say about immigration after all your lies instead of taking a shot at Americans who don’t speak Spanish.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/14/rnc-under-fire-over-debate-audience-stacking-as-local-gop-chairman-confirms-party-donors-get-debate-tickets/
http://rightwingnews.com/election-2016/smackdown-rubio-claims-cruz-cant-speak-spanish-debate-cruz-humiliates/

[Perianne]

As the candidates did their closing arguments, they all got cheers from the crowd. After Kasich finished, the moderator allowed the crowd to cheer for two seconds before calling on the next person. After Carson, two seconds. After Bush, two seconds. After Rubio, EIGHT seconds. After Cruz, two seconds. After Trump, two seconds. Hmmm.

Kasich, 2
Carson, 2
Bush, 2
Cruz, 2
Trump, 2
Rubio, 8.

[Kathianne]

In addition to his overall strong performance, Rubio's tough defense of Bush reinvigorated my support of him as my first choice candidate.

I agree. It will take until mid-late this week to see if SC at any rate agrees:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/marco-rubio-redeems-himself/article/2583259

[Abbey Marie]

I agree. It will take until mid-late this week to see if SC at any rate agrees:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/marco-rubio-redeems-himself/article/2583259


Nice roundup of Rubio's performance. Thanks!

Yes, the vote is the only thing that really matters. I still have a feeling that Bush will do well. And I don't know why. There aren't any indicators I'm aware of.

[Perianne]

The crowd was packed with Rubio and Bush supporters. Trump's thoughts about it:


Trump signed an RNC pledge in September, agreeing not to run a third-party candidacy and to support the eventual Republican nominee.



"I signed a pledge, but it’s a double-edged pledge. As far as I’m concerned, they’re in default on their pledge," Trump said of the RNC.



https://gma.yahoo.com/donald-trump-floats-idea-third-party-run-again-185012463--abc-news-topstories.html#

I remember my first album. It was Chicago V. There was a song "State of the Union".

I was talking 'bout the state of the union
How there's no one now in power thinking of me
I was saying how we ought to try to fix it
Find a leader who is not afraid to be
Then a voice came out of the darkness
Saying "Tear the system down"
Tear it down

If the RNC and establishment Republicans don't get with it, America is lost.