The mentally ill -- jailed and desperate for help

[nevadamedic]

Story Highlights

Mentally ill inmates in Miami are housed on the "forgotten floor"
Judge Steven Leifman says most are there as a result of "avoidable felonies"
While CNN tours facility, patient shouts: "I am the son of the president"
Leifman says the system is unjust and he's fighting for change

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/13/btsc.obrien.criminallyinsane/index.html

I do feel bad for the ones in there that really do have a disorder and who need help. I think that we should do everything in our power to help them. That way when they get out they are less likely to re-offend. If we just warehouse them then release them they will still have their problems and not know how to deal with them and keep going down their distructive path. I think it's criminal not to help anyone in our society with a mental disorder who want's or need help.

[Gaffer]

Most states don't have institutions that hold the mentally ill anymore. They have a few hospitals for the insane but due to lack of bed space many are released early and most have no where to go. They are people that should be watched 24 hours a day, but they are put out on the street to make room for others sent in by the courts.

Most larger jails have a psych unit where they house these people, but even that's only temporary.

[nevadamedic]

Most states don't have institutions that hold the mentally ill anymore. They have a few hospitals for the insane but due to lack of bed space many are released early and most have no where to go. They are people that should be watched 24 hours a day, but they are put out on the street to make room for others sent in by the courts.

Most larger jails have a psych unit where they house these people, but even that's only temporary.

We have a hospital here for the Criminaly Insane. That's what most cities need to have. Most of those people who are in there are much worse then regular offenders and desperatly need treatment not just confinement, and those hospitals offer both.

[Kathianne]

There are too few resources for families that have adults that need mental health treatment. Truth is, the mentally ill either have to be 'well enough' to claim need on their own or so sick that they've attempted to hurt themselves or someone else. Sometimes they kill and end up on death row, that is wrong.

[nevadamedic]

There are too few resources for families that have adults that need mental health treatment. Truth is, the mentally ill either have to be 'well enough' to claim need on their own or so sick that they've attempted to hurt themselves or someone else. Sometimes they kill and end up on death row, that is wrong.

I couldn't agree more. They need to come up with a better system to combat this problem, not just treatment but diagnosis. Maybe then they would be able to prevent some outbursts etc.

[Kathianne]

I couldn't agree more. They need to come up with a better system to combat this problem, not just treatment but diagnosis. Maybe then they would be able to prevent some outbursts etc.

They need to listen to families and friends. Truth is, that has been missing for years, since 'patient rights' took hold.

[nevadamedic]

They need to listen to families and friends. Truth is, that has been missing for years, since 'patient rights' took hold.

Even their normal family doctor should be able to tell the warning signs. I think it should be mandatory at that point for a doctor to refer the patient to a mental health professional. The way it is now they have to be a threat to themselves or someone else, and that is good to a point. People can show starting sign's and if they get help at that point it probably won't get to out of hand.

[Kathianne]

Even their normal family doctor should be able to tell the warning signs. I think it should be mandatory at that point for a doctor to refer the patient to a mental health professional. The way it is now they have to be a threat to themselves or someone else, and that is good to a point. People can show starting sign's and if they get help at that point it probably won't get to out of hand.

at least in Illinois, the best family, friends, doctors can do for someone needing hospitalization is 72 hours, which isn't easy. To convince a court of more takes someone admitting the person tried to do something that could get them convicted of a crime.

[nevadamedic]

at least in Illinois, the best family, friends, doctors can do for someone needing hospitalization is 72 hours, which isn't easy. To convince a court of more takes someone admitting the person tried to do something that could get them convicted of a crime.

That's how it is here. If a Cop, EMT or Health Care Professional think they are a danger to themselves or someone else they will put them in for 72 hours, but they are usually released in a day either because of over crowding or because they don't have insurance.

[Kathianne]

That's how it is here. If a Cop, EMT or Health Care Professional think they are a danger to themselves or someone else they will put them in for 72 hours, but they are usually released in a day either because of over crowding or because they don't have insurance.

money, insurance, crowding has zip to do with it. It's 'rights of the patient.'

[nevadamedic]

money, insurance, crowding has zip to do with it. It's 'rights of the patient.'

I think if the patient need's to be hospitalized then do it. Don't deny someone treatment because they can't afford it. A lot of these people would have been under better control if that were the case. They should have a hospital even if run by the state handling nothing but the mentally ill, even on an outpatient level. Helping them with counseling, medications and treatment plans.

[Kathianne]

I think if the patient need's to be hospitalized then do it. Don't deny someone treatment because they can't afford it. A lot of these people would have been under better control if that were the case. They should have a hospital even if run by the state handling nothing but the mentally ill, even on an outpatient level. Helping them with counseling, medications and treatment plans.

For some reason, those with mental problems don't recognize it. The law is on the side of denial, unless of course, they commit a crime, then they are 'sane.' After loved ones tried unsuccessfully to have them committed for years.

[nevadamedic]

For some reason, those with mental problems don't recognize it. The law is on the side of denial, unless of course, they commit a crime, then they are 'sane.' After loved ones tried unsuccessfully to have them committed for years.

Yea but their family doctor can. They should be given the authority to intervene and get the patient into a program or get them on medication. I bet if that would have happened when the VT shooter showed all the sign's, that tragedy wouldn't have happened. I mean school official's were trying to get that guy help. That is exactly what im saying, if someone see warning signs like that then he should be treated immediatly.

[Kathianne]

Yea but their family doctor can. They should be given the authority to intervene and get the patient into a program or get them on medication. I bet if that would have happened when the VT shooter showed all the sign's, that tragedy wouldn't have happened. I mean school official's were trying to get that guy help. That is exactly what im saying, if someone see warning signs like that then he should be treated immediatly.

Actually no, at least in Illinois. If someone will not voluntarily commit, the best the doctor, whether family or psychiatrist can do is 72 hours. Then they can try to convince the person, but it's very iffy. Meds take awhile to kick in.

[Gaffer]

There are also the many cases where the people don't have family. These kind end up on the street. The only time they get any help is after they have been charged with a crime. And that help is minimal.

Patients rights is just another liberal excuse for putting them on the street where they can can hurt themselves or others.

[nevadamedic]

Here's a story with an obvious cry for help. I also think there are some Psycological problems here as well.

Teens planned school attack for Columbine anniversary, police say

Story Highlights

Former friend says one suspect was fascinated by explosions, shootings
Two teens charged with conspiracy in alleged plot to attack school
"This will go down in history," 15-year-old wrote in journal, according to police
Plot discovered when journal was found in McDonald's parking lot, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/14/teen.bomb.threat.ap/index.html

[Kathianne]

Here's a story with an obvious cry for help. I also think there are some Psycological problems here as well.

Teens planned school attack for Columbine anniversary, police say

Story Highlights

Former friend says one suspect was fascinated by explosions, shootings
Two teens charged with conspiracy in alleged plot to attack school
"This will go down in history," 15-year-old wrote in journal, according to police
Plot discovered when journal was found in McDonald's parking lot, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/14/teen.bomb.threat.ap/index.html

a minor the parents/doctor may be able to get committed. Not an adult.

[manu1959]

We have a hospital here for the Criminaly Insane. That's what most cities need to have. Most of those people who are in there are much worse then regular offenders and desperatly need treatment not just confinement, and those hospitals offer both.

Criminaly Insane is redundant....all criminals are insane....sane people do not commit crimes

[nevadamedic]

Actually no, at least in Illinois. If someone will not voluntarily commit, the best the doctor, whether family or psychiatrist can do is 72 hours. Then they can try to convince the person, but it's very iffy. Meds take awhile to kick in.

Well, within the 72 hour's if they determine they are still at risk I think they can hold them upto 10 days, then they have to get a judges order. I don't know the exact number of days but I know it's more then a week, atleast that is the way it is here.

[nevadamedic]

Criminaly Insane is redundant....all criminals are insane....sane people do not commit crimes

I disagree with that.

[nevadamedic]

There are also the many cases where the people don't have family. These kind end up on the street. The only time they get any help is after they have been charged with a crime. And that help is minimal.

Patients rights is just another liberal excuse for putting them on the street where they can can hurt themselves or others.

So ture...... That's why people who work at homeless shelters should be trained on what to look for, and how to get the person in need of mental help, the help they need.

[manu1959]

I disagree with that.

family is a long lie of criminal defense attorneys.....you would have a tough time convincing my side of the family....

committing a crime is not the action of a sane person .....

[Kathianne]

Well, within the 72 hour's if they determine they are still at risk I think they can hold them upto 10 days, then they have to get a judges order. I don't know the exact number of days but I know it's more then a week, atleast that is the way it is here.

a judge will not do so unless the person at risk has attempted to do harm to self or someone else.

[nevadamedic]

a minor the parents/doctor may be able to get committed. Not an adult.

I'm pretty sure a minor parent's can get them help. I know here in Nevada they can get them put on Probation if they are having nothing but problems with them, they just have to pay th Probation fees. I think there maybe more to it, as i've never looked into it.

[nevadamedic]

family is a long lie of criminal defense attorneys.....you would have a tough time convincing my side of the family....

committing a crime is not the action of a sane person .....

If that were the case everyone in the system could use the insanity defense.

[manu1959]

If that were the case everyone in the system could use the insanity defense.

actually by my definition they couldn't .....

[nevadamedic]

actually by my definition they couldn't .....

Ok?