Conservatism, The Atlantic Style

[Perianne]

I read an interesting article while trying to find something that confused conservatives could understand. Here is what The Atlantic says represents conservatism.




An aversion to rapid change; a belief that tradition and prevailing social norms often contain within them handed down wisdom; and mistrust of attempts to remake society so that it conforms to an abstract account of what would be just or efficient.
A desire to preserve the political philosophy and rules of government articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, through cultural norms.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, using cultural norms and the power of the state.
An embrace of free-market capitalism, and a belief in the legitimacy of market outcomes.
A belief that America is an exceptional nation, a shining city on a hill, whose rightful role is leader of the free world.
A belief that America should export its brand of democracy through force of arms.
The conviction that government should undertake, on behalf of the American polity, grand projects that advance our "national greatness" and ennoble our characters.
An embrace of localism, community and family ties, human scale, and a responsibility to the future.
A belief that America shouldn't intervene in the affairs of other nations except to defend ourselves from aggression and enforce contracts and treaties.
A desire to return to the way things once were.
Affinity for, identification with, or embrace of Red America's various cultural cues. (For example, gun ownership, a preference for single-family homes oriented around highways rather than urban enclaves organized around public transit, embrace of country music, disdain for arugula and fancy mustard, etc.)
Disdain for American liberalism, multiculturalism, identity politics, affirmative action, welfare, European-style social policies, and the left and its ideas generally.
A desire to be left alone by government, often coupled with a belief that being left alone is a natural right.
A principled belief in federalism.
The belief that taxes should be lower and government smaller.
The belief that the national debt and deficits put America in peril.
The belief that whenever possible, government budgets should be balanced.
Consciousness of the fallibility of man, and an awareness of the value of skepticism, doubt and humility.
Realism in foreign policy.
Non-interventionism in foreign policy.



I strongly believe in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21

I only disagree with 7, 8

But of all the above, I mostly strongly agree with 13, with 11 coming in second.

Any thoughts?

[Drummond]

I read an interesting article while trying to find something that confused conservatives could understand. Here is what The Atlantic says represents conservatism.




An aversion to rapid change; a belief that tradition and prevailing social norms often contain within them handed down wisdom; and mistrust of attempts to remake society so that it conforms to an abstract account of what would be just or efficient.
A desire to preserve the political philosophy and rules of government articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, through cultural norms.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, using cultural norms and the power of the state.
An embrace of free-market capitalism, and a belief in the legitimacy of market outcomes.
A belief that America is an exceptional nation, a shining city on a hill, whose rightful role is leader of the free world.
A belief that America should export its brand of democracy through force of arms.
The conviction that government should undertake, on behalf of the American polity, grand projects that advance our "national greatness" and ennoble our characters.
An embrace of localism, community and family ties, human scale, and a responsibility to the future.
A belief that America shouldn't intervene in the affairs of other nations except to defend ourselves from aggression and enforce contracts and treaties.
A desire to return to the way things once were.
Affinity for, identification with, or embrace of Red America's various cultural cues. (For example, gun ownership, a preference for single-family homes oriented around highways rather than urban enclaves organized around public transit, embrace of country music, disdain for arugula and fancy mustard, etc.)
Disdain for American liberalism, multiculturalism, identity politics, affirmative action, welfare, European-style social policies, and the left and its ideas generally.
A desire to be left alone by government, often coupled with a belief that being left alone is a natural right.
A principled belief in federalism.
The belief that taxes should be lower and government smaller.
The belief that the national debt and deficits put America in peril.
The belief that whenever possible, government budgets should be balanced.
Consciousness of the fallibility of man, and an awareness of the value of skepticism, doubt and humility.
Realism in foreign policy.
Non-interventionism in foreign policy.



I strongly believe in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21

I only disagree with 7, 8

But of all the above, I mostly strongly agree with 13, with 11 coming in second.

Any thoughts?

I'm in broad agreement.

However, you say you disagree with '7'. I would, too, if a form of nationalistic 'dominion' is the purpose involved .. but, what if it's not ? A strict non-application of '7', a refusal to follow through, would've presumably meant, for example, that no effort would've been made to introduce democracy to Iraq, after the defeat of Saddam .. since Iraq had no previous democracy to fall back upon. What if Americans hold their vision of democracy up for scrutiny, and it's used as a model to be adapted to more local conditions ?

Lefties criticise the Iraq war by claiming that there were no coherent plans for that country after Saddam's defeat. Yet ... the US actually DID facilitate the conversion from power-hungry dictatorial tyres to a far more inclusive democratic model. This is one of the strengths of America's actions, helping to justify its being there.

[Perianne]

I'm in broad agreement.

However, you say you disagree with '7'. I would, too, if a form of nationalistic 'dominion' is the purpose involved .. but, what if it's not ? A strict non-application of '7', a refusal to follow through, would've presumably meant, for example, that no effort would've been made to introduce democracy to Iraq, after the defeat of Saddam .. since Iraq had no previous democracy to fall back upon. What if Americans hold their vision of democracy up for scrutiny, and it's used as a model to be adapted to more local conditions ?

Lefties criticise the Iraq war by claiming that there were no coherent plans for that country after Saddam's defeat. Yet ... the US actually DID facilitate the conversion from power-hungry dictatorial tyres to a far more inclusive democratic model. This is one of the strengths of America's actions, helping to justify its being there.

I am betwixt and between on this issue, specifically your point. I do see what you are saying, though.

[Perianne]

I forgot to add the link to the opening post. Here it is.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/01/what-americans-mean-when-they-say-theyre-conservative/252099/

[Little-Acorn]

Whoever wrote that list is pretty mixed up. He's got elements of conservatism, elements of modern liberalism, and things that have nothing to do with either, all rolled into one list.

[fj1200]

I read an interesting article while trying to find something that confused conservatives could understand. Here is what The Atlantic says represents conservatism.

This may be a better starting point in your quest to understand conservatism.

The Conservative's Handbook: Defining the Right Position on Issues from A to Z (http://www.amazon.com/The-Conservatives-Handbook-Defining-Position/dp/1581826621)

[Drummond]

This may be a better starting point in your quest to understand conservatism.

The Conservative's Handbook: Defining the Right Position on Issues from A to Z (http://www.amazon.com/The-Conservatives-Handbook-Defining-Position/dp/1581826621)



Keep up the good work, FJ. You clearly understand that you badly need all the guidance you can get about Conservatives and their thinking.

I sincerely hope that, one day, it may convert you away from your current fraudulence.

[fj1200]

Keep up the good work, FJ. You clearly understand that you badly need all the guidance you can get about Conservatives and their thinking.

I sincerely hope that, one day, it may convert you away from your current fraudulence.

It's a shame that stupid and ignorant is a way of life for you.

[Gunny]

I read an interesting article while trying to find something that confused conservatives could understand. Here is what The Atlantic says represents conservatism.




An aversion to rapid change; a belief that tradition and prevailing social norms often contain within them handed down wisdom; and mistrust of attempts to remake society so that it conforms to an abstract account of what would be just or efficient.
A desire to preserve the political philosophy and rules of government articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, through cultural norms.
A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, using cultural norms and the power of the state.
An embrace of free-market capitalism, and a belief in the legitimacy of market outcomes.
A belief that America is an exceptional nation, a shining city on a hill, whose rightful role is leader of the free world.
A belief that America should export its brand of democracy through force of arms.
The conviction that government should undertake, on behalf of the American polity, grand projects that advance our "national greatness" and ennoble our characters.
An embrace of localism, community and family ties, human scale, and a responsibility to the future.
A belief that America shouldn't intervene in the affairs of other nations except to defend ourselves from aggression and enforce contracts and treaties.
A desire to return to the way things once were.
Affinity for, identification with, or embrace of Red America's various cultural cues. (For example, gun ownership, a preference for single-family homes oriented around highways rather than urban enclaves organized around public transit, embrace of country music, disdain for arugula and fancy mustard, etc.)
Disdain for American liberalism, multiculturalism, identity politics, affirmative action, welfare, European-style social policies, and the left and its ideas generally.
A desire to be left alone by government, often coupled with a belief that being left alone is a natural right.
A principled belief in federalism.
The belief that taxes should be lower and government smaller.
The belief that the national debt and deficits put America in peril.
The belief that whenever possible, government budgets should be balanced.
Consciousness of the fallibility of man, and an awareness of the value of skepticism, doubt and humility.
Realism in foreign policy.
Non-interventionism in foreign policy.



I strongly believe in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21

I only disagree with 7, 8

But of all the above, I mostly strongly agree with 13, with 11 coming in second.

Any thoughts?

Yeah. The premise that conservatives who don't think exactly like this are "confused" just shows how ignorant some people can be. No offense to anyone, but East Coast "conservatives" are weak and pathetic to me, and our current Congress reflects that. Move to Texas. Wait. Don't. Got enough damned snowbirds down here.

This is just more divisiveness, and while not much on conspiracies, if the Dems had a covert team operating within the ranks of the right they couldn't do a better job.

[fj1200]

Yeah. The premise that conservatives who don't think exactly like this are "confused" just shows how ignorant some people can be. No offense to anyone, but East Coast "conservatives" are weak and pathetic to me, and our current Congress reflects that. Move to Texas. Wait. Don't. Got enough damned snowbirds down here.

This is just more divisiveness, and while not much on conspiracies, if the Dems had a covert team operating within the ranks of the right they couldn't do a better job.

Little Acorn summed up the list rather well.


Whoever wrote that list is pretty mixed up. He's got elements of conservatism, elements of modern liberalism, and things that have nothing to do with either, all rolled into one list.

Not to mention some things that downright just contradict each other.

[Gunny]

Little Acorn summed up the list rather well.



Not to mention some things that downright just contradict each other.

Guess I'm not a conservative then. I want everyone to just leave me the Hell alone and let me do what I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. That pretty-much classfies me "old-school liberal" back when "liberal" meant liberal.

[Perianne]

Little Acorn summed up the list rather well.



Not to mention some things that downright just contradict each other.

I have made my peace with those who don't agree with my conservatism. See here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?53136-Pretty-Women&highlight=).

[Gunny]

I have made my peace with those who don't agree with my conservatism. See here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?53136-Pretty-Women&highlight=).

Maybe we ought to quit labeling ourselves by degrees and call a spade a spade? Strong and weak.

There are those that want to earn what they have and are willing to go get it; and, there are those that want you to give them what you have earned without doing a damned thing for it. The Right is not conservative by definition. Nor is the left liberal.

Trying to sub-define "conservative" is a pointless task.

[fj1200]

I have made my peace with those who don't agree with my conservatism. See here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?53136-Pretty-Women&highlight=).

I have not made peace with those who would besmirch conservatism. :)

[Drummond]

I have not made peace with those who would besmirch conservatism. :)

Now it's time to put that mirror away .. .:rolleyes:

[Gunny]

I have not made peace with those who would besmirch conservatism. :)

My point is, and yes, I DO have the experience of living in quite a few regions in the US, and conservative/lefty in one place is NOT necessarily conservative/lefty in another. For instance, Guilliani is considered a conservative, but in my neck of the woods he's a moderate who happens to be a good leader.

A Democrat in Texas would be considered a conservative in CA. The terms are used by bureaucrats with agendas and neither reflect their actual meanings. This notion Republicans and Dem don't get along is just that ... a notion. They seem to be bipartisan as Hell where spending our tax dollars is concerned. And I've watched BOTH parties reverse course on issues. Lincoln and Nixon would have had to be Democrats nowadays.