3 winners and 3 losers from the fifth Republican debate

[jimnyc]

Winner: Donald Trump

It's a good time to be Donald Trump. While he's fallen a point behind Ted Cruz in Iowa, he remains ahead by double digits in New Hampshire and South Carolina. Nationally, he's doing as well as he ever has, with the two most recent polls showing leads of 23 and 27 points respectively. What he needed tonight was (a) to not be embarrassed and (b) for no one out on stage to break out in dramatic fashion.

He accomplished both, and then some. Jeb Bush and Rand Paul both unleashed attacks in his direction, and he deflected both in grand fashion. Bush he dispatched with all the ruthless efficiency and contempt of a schoolyard bully. I mean that as a compliment —if not of Trump the person, then of Trump the candidate. I mean, just look at this:



Trump: You're a tough guy, Jeb. I know.

Bush: You're never going to be president of the United States by insulting your way…

Trump: I'm at 42, and you're at 3. So far I'm doing better. You started over here [gestures next to himself in the center of the stage]. You're moving over further and further. Pretty soon you're going to be off the end.

Same goes for Trump's exchange with Rand Paul, who assailed Trump's comments about "closing up the internet in some way" as an assault on Americans' freedoms: (Rand tried the same as on here, and Trump said basically what I've been saying and put him in his place)

TRUMP: And as far as the Internet is concerned, we're not talking about closing the Internet. I'm talking about parts of Syria, parts of Iraq, where ISIS is, spotting it.

Now, you could close it. What I like even better than that is getting our smartest and getting our best to infiltrate their Internet, so that we know exactly where they're going, exactly where they're going to be. I like that better. [MIXED APPLAUSE/BOOS]

But we have to -- who would be -- I just can't imagine somebody booing. These are people that want to kill us, folks, and you're -- you're objecting to us infiltrating their conversations? I don't think so. I don't think so.

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/16/10274602/republican-debate-winners-losers

[Gunny]

Winner: Donald Trump

It's a good time to be Donald Trump. While he's fallen a point behind Ted Cruz in Iowa, he remains ahead by double digits in New Hampshire and South Carolina. Nationally, he's doing as well as he ever has, with the two most recent polls showing leads of 23 and 27 points respectively. What he needed tonight was (a) to not be embarrassed and (b) for no one out on stage to break out in dramatic fashion.

He accomplished both, and then some. Jeb Bush and Rand Paul both unleashed attacks in his direction, and he deflected both in grand fashion. Bush he dispatched with all the ruthless efficiency and contempt of a schoolyard bully. I mean that as a compliment —if not of Trump the person, then of Trump the candidate. I mean, just look at this:



Trump: You're a tough guy, Jeb. I know.

Bush: You're never going to be president of the United States by insulting your way…

Trump: I'm at 42, and you're at 3. So far I'm doing better. You started over here [gestures next to himself in the center of the stage]. You're moving over further and further. Pretty soon you're going to be off the end.

Same goes for Trump's exchange with Rand Paul, who assailed Trump's comments about "closing up the internet in some way" as an assault on Americans' freedoms: (Rand tried the same as on here, and Trump said basically what I've been saying and put him in his place)

TRUMP: And as far as the Internet is concerned, we're not talking about closing the Internet. I'm talking about parts of Syria, parts of Iraq, where ISIS is, spotting it.

Now, you could close it. What I like even better than that is getting our smartest and getting our best to infiltrate their Internet, so that we know exactly where they're going, exactly where they're going to be. I like that better. [MIXED APPLAUSE/BOOS]

But we have to -- who would be -- I just can't imagine somebody booing. These are people that want to kill us, folks, and you're -- you're objecting to us infiltrating their conversations? I don't think so. I don't think so.

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/16/10274602/republican-debate-winners-losers

He didn't win crap. He just didn't lose. Jeb handed him his ass as far as I'm concerned. But Trump mostly remained silent. Someone in his campaign must had advised him to quit taking the bait.

[jimnyc]

He didn't win crap. He just didn't lose.

I thought several of them did quite well. As usual, I thought Trump did well. They tried to trip him up and it didn't work. I thought Cruz was fantastic. And believe it or not, I thought Christie made a few great points as well. And unless the others knock him off his perch, that is winning for him right now.

[jimnyc]

He didn't win crap. He just didn't lose. Jeb handed him his ass as far as I'm concerned. But Trump mostly remained silent. Someone in his campaign must had advised him to quit taking the bait.

Ooops, saw you added. Was he asked something that he didn't or refused to answer? I missed a few minutes on bathroom mistakes, don't know if I missed that or not.

[Gunny]

I thought several of them did quite well. As usual, I thought Trump did well. They tried to trip him up and it didn't work. I thought Cruz was fantastic. And believe it or not, I thought Christie made a few great points as well. And unless the others knock him off his perch, that is winning for him right now.

I think Christie (Ralph Cramden) did VERY well. He'll probably go up more spaces than anyone else. I also think Rand Paul and Carson and Fiorina need to just pack it in. Not because I don't like a couple of them, but they don't have a chance are are just cluttering the field.

Winning the nomination does NOT win the White House. You just don't listen to facts. Trump is NOT going to get the moderate nor independent votes. Shrillery is going to get ALL the leftwingnut votes. There's not enough Trump fans to win by yourselves.

[jimnyc]

You just don't listen to facts.

You see, this is the stuff I've been trying to point out. Just because I like a different candidate it somehow means I don't listen to facts? Many of you guys against Trump tend to instantly judge those of us who do support him, and imply that we aren't as smart as others, or that we "don't get" things as a result. Perhaps it's you guys who don't listen to facts? But I am not saying that, as I'm not somehow jumping on others because of the candidate they support. Again, I like them ALL and would proudly vote for ANY of them. I've not gotten on you or others for who you support. Well, perhaps that's because I have no idea, as all your time is spent in getting on Trump, or telling others how wrong they are or how they don't get things.

Why is it not simply possible that we like different candidates for different reasons? Seriously, WHO is it you support most at this point of the campaign? And when you voiced such here on the board, has anyone told you how dumb it was? Or how you don't understand things or can't see the facts? Or really jumped on you on any way at all because of that candidate? I really don't get it.

[jimnyc]

Nope :

Very interesting. I'll have to monitor those stats and see how they continue towards the primaries and throughout. But not surprising considering the numbers he is getting in polls and the numbers at his events.

[NightTrain]

Trump is NOT going to get the moderate nor independent votes. Shrillery is going to get ALL the leftwingnut votes. There's not enough Trump fans to win by yourselves.


Nope.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/24/voters-would-show-up-if-trump-is-on-2016-ballot.html

[NightTrain]

Very interesting. I'll have to monitor those stats and see how they continue towards the primaries and throughout. But not surprising considering the numbers he is getting in polls and the numbers at his events.


Tried to embed the graph, but it was huge... need to brush up on my editing skeels to reduce some of these graphics.

[jimnyc]

Tried to embed the graph, but it was huge... need to brush up on my editing skeels to reduce some of these graphics.

I saw it when you posted it, like it. :) Made it clear for all to read. :)

[NightTrain]

I saw it when you posted it, like it. :) Made it clear for all to read. :)


Many people don't bother going out on links, you want to take a stab at reducing the size of that beast and posting here?

[jimnyc]

Many people don't bother going out on links, you want to take a stab at reducing the size of that beast and posting here?

How's this? Want it smaller, or is this cool?

http://i.imgur.com/89eXl1V.jpg

[NightTrain]

Perfect! :thumb:

Thanks man.

[Gunny]

You see, this is the stuff I've been trying to point out. Just because I like a different candidate it somehow means I don't listen to facts? Many of you guys against Trump tend to instantly judge those of us who do support him, and imply that we aren't as smart as others, or that we "don't get" things as a result. Perhaps it's you guys who don't listen to facts? But I am not saying that, as I'm not somehow jumping on others because of the candidate they support. Again, I like them ALL and would proudly vote for ANY of them. I've not gotten on you or others for who you support. Well, perhaps that's because I have no idea, as all your time is spent in getting on Trump, or telling others how wrong they are or how they don't get things.

Why is it not simply possible that we like different candidates for different reasons? Seriously, WHO is it you support most at this point of the campaign? And when you voiced such here on the board, has anyone told you how dumb it was? Or how you don't understand things or can't see the facts? Or really jumped on you on any way at all because of that candidate? I really don't get it.

No. I don't care who you like. I point out what I see about THEM. I can't help it if you, or others, take it personally that I don't like "your boy". I'm not getting on YOU at all. Unless you're Donald Trump. I can get all over Rubio as well. He IS a RINO. I lived in Miami for 8 years and I can tell you a conservative in that liberal hellhole is NOT a conservative in Texas.

I don't support any one person. They're mostly the same to me. If I had to pick any one of them today it would probably be Cruz. Although I was kind of impressed with Christie. I still believe Bush is the most qualified but that last name is killing him.

The whole problem here is people running on media and emotion. I'd have picked Scott Walker or Rick Perry over ANY of them. But they're boring. Any of the preceding mentioned are more qualified than Trump.

But y'all need to quit taking this crap so personally. There're countless threads on Trump and this election. My opinion isn't going to change about him and if all I have to post in are Trump threads, then I'm posting in them. This and a 20 minute run to Circle K for smokes and Powerade constitute my social life nowadays. Unless you want to count changing diapers and making bottles social. :laugh:

[jimnyc]

But y'all need to quit taking this crap so personally. There're countless threads on Trump and this election. My opinion isn't going to change about him and if all I have to post in are Trump threads, then I'm posting in them. This and a 20 minute run to Circle K for smokes and Powerade constitute my social life nowadays. Unless you want to count changing diapers and making bottles social. :laugh:

I only take things personally when it sounds like the posts replied to me sounds more personal. Pointing out what I get and what I don't get - that's personal opinions. I'm not crying over it, but I'll damn sure point it out, especially when others are claiming that it's Trump supporters somehow getting emotional.

I post Trump threads as I like him. I'm MORE than happy to post in many, many threads - but doesn't seem like folks that like other candidates are posting an awful lot about the candidates that they prefer over Trump.

--

That's the one thing that sucks about the "lower half" of the states. I notice that in Florida, and it was horrid when I stayed with Jeff in Georgia. To go out and get a damn coffee, or pack of smokes, you had to drive like at least 10 miles and 20 mins away. Sometimes even on the highway and down to the next city for lame things!! Here in NY you can walk to everything you need. Now, you may get shot on your way to get the smokes, but at least you can walk back home with that wound! :)

[Gunny]

I only take things personally when it sounds like the posts replied to me sounds more personal. Pointing out what I get and what I don't get - that's personal opinions. I'm not crying over it, but I'll damn sure point it out, especially when others are claiming that it's Trump supporters somehow getting emotional.

I post Trump threads as I like him. I'm MORE than happy to post in many, many threads - but doesn't seem like folks that like other candidates are posting an awful lot about the candidates that they prefer over Trump.

--

That's the one thing that sucks about the "lower half" of the states. I notice that in Florida, and it was horrid when I stayed with Jeff in Georgia. To go out and get a damn coffee, or pack of smokes, you had to drive like at least 10 miles and 20 mins away. Sometimes even on the highway and down to the next city for lame things!! Here in NY you can walk to everything you need. Now, you may get shot on your way to get the smokes, but at least you can walk back home with that wound! :)

Well yeah. Because you can beat a dead horse only so much. And your boy IS appealing to emotion. Anger isn't in the logic category. As I've said many times, I understand the anger and the appeal. But let's call it what it is. You think I'm not frustrated and angry over the last 7 years?

But I've been stationed in DC and I know how things work. Know where the good bars are too. :) Been paying attention to politics since Jimmy Carter was my CinC. I grew up on Air Force and Navy Bases. Spent 21 years in the Marines. I have a completely different perspective than you do. I can divorce myself from my emotions. I've taken shit for it from every non-military person I've run into since I retired. SO it isn't like it's a deal or I'm bragging. I wasn't raised like you. And I sure as Hell can't lead a company if my emotions are controlling my decisions. Get everyone killed that way.

I look at this election the same way as if I was planning to storm a beach. It doesn't matter who you like. With me, it's who can win and how. And the first thing you don't do is get on a public stage 5 damned times and announce your plans to the enemy. And you don't talk a lot of BS, telegraph your moves, and try to overachieve an objective.

[jimnyc]

Well yeah. Because you can beat a dead horse only so much. And your boy IS appealing to emotion. Anger isn't in the logic category. As I've said many times, I understand the anger and the appeal. But let's call it what it is. You think I'm not frustrated and angry over the last 7 years?

But I've been stationed in DC and I know how things work. Know where the good bars are too. :) Been paying attention to politics since Jimmy Carter was my CinC. I grew up on Air Force and Navy Bases. Spent 21 years in the Marines. I have a completely different perspective than you do. I can divorce myself from my emotions. I've taken shit for it from every non-military person I've run into since I retired. SO it isn't like it's a deal or I'm bragging. I wasn't raised like you. And I sure as Hell can't lead a company if my emotions are controlling my decisions. Get everyone killed that way.

I look at this election the same way as if I was planning to storm a beach. It doesn't matter who you like. With me, it's who can win and how. And the first thing you don't do is get on a public stage 5 damned times and announce your plans to the enemy. And you don't talk a lot of BS, telegraph your moves, and try to overachieve an objective.

This is where we differ. I don't see this emotional stuff you're talking about, other than those who hate him. Sure, I'm angry, as is the majority of the nation. But I simply see him as MY best choice for what I want. Nothing emotional about that, just strictly reading along ALL of the candidates and what their stances are. The things that he is saying and supports are things that I have wanted for quite some time. He's not getting me emotional over illegal immigration, as that's something I seriously wanted enforced and handled the right way for quite some time. Same with the problem known as radical Islam. Been complaining about that for a long time. What he's appealing to is what so many people have been complaining about for a long, long time. Isn't that what leaders and politicians are supposed to do - represent the people? Of course no one is able to make everyone happy, represent every single person, but there are a LOT of people out there that want the things that Trump is yammering on about.

[Gunny]

This is where we differ. I don't see this emotional stuff you're talking about, other than those who hate him. Sure, I'm angry, as is the majority of the nation. But I simply see him as MY best choice for what I want. Nothing emotional about that, just strictly reading along ALL of the candidates and what their stances are. The things that he is saying and supports are things that I have wanted for quite some time. He's not getting me emotional over illegal immigration, as that's something I seriously wanted enforced and handled the right way for quite some time. Same with the problem known as radical Islam. Been complaining about that for a long time. What he's appealing to is what so many people have been complaining about for a long, long time. Isn't that what leaders and politicians are supposed to do - represent the people? Of course no one is able to make everyone happy, represent every single person, but there are a LOT of people out there that want the things that Trump is yammering on about.

You don't see the emotion involved? First off, you don't have to hate someone to think they are unqualified for a position. Second, he has done NOTHING BUT appeal to emotion. Look at every one of his promises. He's appealing to the frustration (an emotion) to a certain group of people. And your response above is full of emotion.

Leaders are supposed to lead. Trump's a hothead. I don't want a leader like that. The worst CO I had was a glory hound looking for medals and didn't care who he got killed trying to get them. And that's ALL Trump is looking for ... another notch in his belt. Everything he says is about HIM not US. And he's saying whatever it takes to try and get what he wants. If it was about us, he would consider the damage he is doing on the right. He's divided us. Ross Perot did the same thing. He's just running for his ego.

[Abbey Marie]

I thought several of them did quite well. As usual, I thought Trump did well. They tried to trip him up and it didn't work. I thought Cruz was fantastic. And believe it or not, I thought Christie made a few great points as well. And unless the others knock him off his perch, that is winning for him right now.


I may be bit biased because I like Christie, but I thought he did very well last night.
I would say it was Cruz, then Christie as the "winners".

[NightTrain]

I may be bit biased because I like Christie, but I thought he did very well last night.
I would say it was Cruz, then Christie as the "winners".


Christie speaks and behaves great in the debates, no denying that.

I can't forgive him for licking Obama's boots after the hurricane and helping throw the election in '12... that's my biggest beef with him. Oh, and that petty BS he pulled on the highway closures wasn't cool either.


That being said, though, if he somehow pulled off the nomination, I'll definitely vote for him in a heartbeat.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You see, this is the stuff I've been trying to point out. Just because I like a different candidate it somehow means I don't listen to facts? Many of you guys against Trump tend to instantly judge those of us who do support him, and imply that we aren't as smart as others, or that we "don't get" things as a result. Perhaps it's you guys who don't listen to facts? But I am not saying that, as I'm not somehow jumping on others because of the candidate they support. Again, I like them ALL and would proudly vote for ANY of them. I've not gotten on you or others for who you support. Well, perhaps that's because I have no idea, as all your time is spent in getting on Trump, or telling others how wrong they are or how they don't get things.

Why is it not simply possible that we like different candidates for different reasons? Seriously, WHO is it you support most at this point of the campaign? And when you voiced such here on the board, has anyone told you how dumb it was? Or how you don't understand things or can't see the facts? Or really jumped on you on any way at all because of that candidate? I really don't get it.


You see, this is the stuff I've been trying to point out. Just because I like a different candidate it somehow means I don't listen to facts? Many of you guys against Trump tend to instantly judge those of us who do support him, and imply that we aren't as smart as others, or that we "don't get" things as a result. Perhaps it's you guys who don't listen to facts?


^^^^^^ This I fully agree with. I think the respect we Trump supporters have given in our replies and the fact that we are not waging a campaign against the other Republican candidates bodes well for us and our civility .
This being reminded that we do not see, can not see, will not see, or else are somehow incapable of fully understanding is truly insulting whether it is an intended insult or not IMHO.
MAYBE THEY DO NOT SEE IT THAT WAY AND ONLY YIELD TO AND REPLY DIRECTLY WITH SUCH VENOM BECAUSE THEY HATE DONALD TRUMP SO DEARLY.
As you yourself noted, in the selected quote highlighted above.
I understand intense hatred quite well myself, since it rests in me concerning this nation's greatest enemies= obama, dem party, sorry-ass libs, socialists, most globalist controlled federal government department heads, mainstream media, muslims and that deliberately propagandized, indoctrinating education system !-Tyr

[Black Diamond]

Nope.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/24/voters-would-show-up-if-trump-is-on-2016-ballot.html

Then we are screwed. Hillary for eight years.

[NightTrain]

Then we are screwed. Hillary for eight years.


I don't see Hillary having a snowball's chance in hell.

She wrecked herself politically with the email scandal and lying.

And Sanders will be crushed in any event. I think we could nominate Bill the Cat and win 2016 against the Dem field.

[Kathianne]

I don't see Hillary having a snowball's chance in hell.

She wrecked herself politically with the email scandal and lying.

And Sanders will be crushed in any event. I think we could nominate Bill the Cat and win 2016 against the Dem field.

I'm thinking lots of people on the 'right' believe that and woe to all of us if they are wrong.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't see Hillary having a snowball's chance in hell.

She wrecked herself politically with the email scandal and lying.

And Sanders will be crushed in any event. I think we could nominate Bill the Cat and win 2016 against the Dem field.


I think Hillary could murder puppies on camera on the Capitol steps, and still get elected. Dems seem to be that lacking in moral compunction when it comes to support for their Dem candidates.

But God, I hope you are right.

:chinese:

[Black Diamond]

I don't see Hillary having a snowball's chance in hell.

She wrecked herself politically with the email scandal and lying.

And Sanders will be crushed in any event. I think we could nominate Bill the Cat and win 2016 against the Dem field.

Sanders isn't going to win anything. He gave Hillary the nomination when he said everyone is tired of hearing about her emails. He should have just endorsed her on the spot. He's an idiot. And this is assuming he ever had a Chance.

[Black Diamond]

Sanders isn't going to win anything. He gave Hillary the nomination when he said everyone is tired of hearing about her emails. He should have just endorsed her on the spot. He's an idiot. And this is assuming he ever had a Chance.

They even held hands during the debate the way a candidate and her running mate would.

[Gunny]

I don't see Hillary having a snowball's chance in hell.

She wrecked herself politically with the email scandal and lying.

And Sanders will be crushed in any event. I think we could nominate Bill the Cat and win 2016 against the Dem field.

That's where you're wrong. The left has a plan and it's Hillary. They're in lockstep. The right has NO plan. Except the same plan that's already failed twice. And if "your boy" isn't the candidate, the right stays home. The GOP is out of touch with the right/conservatives. Until they manage to get back to it, the GOP is going to lose.

[Kathianne]

That's where you're wrong. The left has a plan and it's Hillary. They're in lockstep. The right has NO plan. Except the same plan that's already failed twice. And if "your boy" isn't the candidate, the right stays home. The GOP is out of touch with the right/conservatives. Until they manage to get back to it, the GOP is going to lose.

I'm not so sure that the right that may disagree, certainly the independents would stay home. They too are very angry at the choices that maybe presented. Then it comes down to a choice of which devil is the most dangerous on the international scene. Both would be as disastrous at home as Obama has been.

[NightTrain]

That's where you're wrong. The left has a plan and it's Hillary.

That's probably the most stupid and suicidal plan I can think of.

But I'm all for them running it until she's indicted and then the hilarious chaos will commence. At that point I expect they'll begin begging Biden or Warren to enter the fray, but I think it's too late now.


The right has NO plan. Except the same plan that's already failed twice. And if "your boy" isn't the candidate, the right stays home.

"My boy" is going to be any of the GOP candidates. I like all of them, except Jeb and Paul and that's a non-issue.


The GOP is out of touch with the right/conservatives. Until they manage to get back to it, the GOP is going to lose.

No.

Things are heating up fast and I like the conversation topics. Both Trump and Cruz are saying the right things and it resonates with me, along with the vast majority of conservatives.

Whether or not you agree with it, they still command the field. The numbers show that.

[Black Diamond]

That's probably the most stupid and suicidal plan I can think of.

But I'm all for them running it until she's indicted and then the hilarious chaos will commence. At that point I expect they'll begin begging Biden or Warren to enter the fray, but I think it's too late now.



"My boy" is going to be any of the GOP candidates. I like all of them, except Jeb and Paul and that's a non-issue.



No.

Things are heating up fast and I like the conversation topics. Both Trump and Cruz are saying the right things and it resonates with me, along with the vast majority of conservatives.

Whether or not you agree with it, they still command the field. The numbers show that.

If you were the Left you would run Sanders?

[Gunny]

That's probably the most stupid and suicidal plan I can think of.

But I'm all for them running it until she's indicted and then the hilarious chaos will commence. At that point I expect they'll begin begging Biden or Warren to enter the fray, but I think it's too late now.



"My boy" is going to be any of the GOP candidates. I like all of them, except Jeb and Paul and that's a non-issue.



No.

Things are heating up fast and I like the conversation topics. Both Trump and Cruz are saying the right things and it resonates with me, along with the vast majority of conservatives.

Whether or not you agree with it, they still command the field. The numbers show that.

You honestly believe they're going to indict her? If she was a cop or a conservative she'd already be in jail. She has clearly violated the law, been caught, and STILL running for office. How long do you think it takes to investigate unauthorized disclosure of classified material? You did or you didn't and she did. How do you plead? They deflected Whitewater off to Bill and Monica and no, I DON'T think that was an accident. She's not going to be held accountable; especially, by THIS administration.

[NightTrain]

If you were the Left you would run Sanders?


No. His base consists of ignorant people who don't understand the most basic principles of socialism. The same crowd that thought the whole Occupy circus was a great idea.

Warren would be their strongest candidate, but it appears she bowed out because of Hellary.

[NightTrain]

You honestly believe they're going to indict her? If she was a cop or a conservative she'd already be in jail. She has clearly violated the law, been caught, and STILL running for office. How long do you think it takes to investigate unauthorized disclosure of classified material? You did or you didn't and she did. How do you plead? They deflected Whitewater off to Bill and Monica and no, I DON'T think that was an accident. She's not going to be held accountable; especially, by THIS administration.


It's going to happen.

The only thing that can save her now is Bambam pardoning her.

Either way, her political career is done - whether or not she actually sees jail.

[Kathianne]

It's going to happen.

The only thing that can save her now is Bambam pardoning her.

Either way, her political career is done - whether or not she actually sees jail.

I hope you're right. Have you seen anything that leads you to your certainty of an indictment?

[Gunny]

It's going to happen.

The only thing that can save her now is Bambam pardoning her.

Either way, her political career is done - whether or not she actually sees jail.

You obviously have more faith than I. NOTHING has stuck to either Clinton.

The problem you have here is that I've noticed most civilians are completely ignorant about the law concerning disclosure of classified info. They don't care and don't think it's a big deal. What I'd like to do if I was having a Happy Birthday is PROVE that disclosure led to Benghazi. THAT would be something she couldn't wiggle her way out of.

[NightTrain]

I hope you're right. Have you seen anything that leads you to your certainty of an indictment?

Yep.


The sources, who were not authorized to speak on the record, told Fox News that while the emails were indeed “top secret” when they hit Clinton’s server, one of them remains “top secret” to this day -- and must be handled at the highest security level. The second email is still considered classified but at the lower “secret” level because more information is publicly available about the event.

Those 2 alone will hang her.

Nevermind the 997 other ones still in the hopper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/15/sources-review-affirms-clinton-server-emails-were-top-secret-despite-department-challenge.html



You obviously have more faith than I. NOTHING has stuck to either Clinton.

The problem you have here is that I've noticed most civilians are completely ignorant about the law concerning disclosure of classified info. They don't care and don't think it's a big deal. What I'd like to do if I was having a Happy Birthday is PROVE that disclosure led to Benghazi. THAT would be something she couldn't wiggle her way out of.

I do.

And so does the FBI.

I understand your cynicism, and I share much of that these days, unfortunately.

However, the FBI is making sure that these new revelations are being disclosed as they go along - and this is clearly to avoid Obama putting a gag order on them and sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

The top guys in the FBI aren't a bunch of liberal pansies, so that's why the constant leaks of what they're finding. Bambam is cut off at the pass.



She's going down - and not in a Monica kind of way, either.

[Kathianne]

Yep.

[/FONT]

Those 2 alone will hang her.

Nevermind the 997 other ones still in the hopper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/15/sources-review-affirms-clinton-server-emails-were-top-secret-despite-department-challenge.html




I do.

And so does the FBI.

I understand your cynicism, and I share much of that these days, unfortunately.

However, the FBI is making sure that these new revelations are being disclosed as they go along - and this is clearly to avoid Obama putting a gag order on them and sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

The top guys in the FBI aren't a bunch of liberal pansies, so that's why the constant leaks of what they're finding. Bambam is cut off at the pass.



She's going down - and not in a Monica kind of way, either.

I'm well aware of the investigating and what has been found so far. What I fail to see is any hope of her being indicted, especially before the elections.

We might get lucky and she'll be a Nixon, win in a landslide in spite of what she's done, then face the consequences after. Have to remember though, Nixon was an anomaly.

[Black Diamond]

Yep.

[/FONT]

Those 2 alone will hang her.

Nevermind the 997 other ones still in the hopper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/15/sources-review-affirms-clinton-server-emails-were-top-secret-despite-department-challenge.html




I do.

And so does the FBI.

I understand your cynicism, and I share much of that these days, unfortunately.

However, the FBI is making sure that these new revelations are being disclosed as they go along - and this is clearly to avoid Obama putting a gag order on them and sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

The top guys in the FBI aren't a bunch of liberal pansies, so that's why the constant leaks of what they're finding. Bambam is cut off at the pass.



She's going down - and not in a Monica kind of way, either.
Who is doing the prosecuting? Obama's right hand lady? Obama has already gone on the record saying it's in effect a right wing conspiracy. And that asswipe McCarthy should be banned from politics forever.

[Black Diamond]

I'm well aware of the investigating and what has been found so far. What I fail to see is any hope of her being indicted, especially before the elections.

We might get lucky and she'll be a Nixon, win in a landslide in spite of what she's done, then face the consequences after. Have to remember though, Nixon was an anomaly.

Except Hillary would not resign. Nixon knew he would be thrown out of office as he didn't have e numbers to support him even in his party.

The dems would make sure Hillary would walk. Just like they did for her husband.

[Kathianne]

Except Hillary would not resign. Nixon knew he would be thrown out of office as he didn't have e numbers to support him even in his party.

The dems would make sure Hillary would walk. Just like they did for her husband.

Sometimes events overtake the parties. Hillary is not well liked, not by even her supporters, they just want her to win. That doesn't mean they are willing to take the party down as a whole. Nixon had a similar problem, he wasn't liked.

There's a lesson here...

[Gunny]

Yep.

[/FONT]

Those 2 alone will hang her.

Nevermind the 997 other ones still in the hopper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/15/sources-review-affirms-clinton-server-emails-were-top-secret-despite-department-challenge.html




I do.

And so does the FBI.

I understand your cynicism, and I share much of that these days, unfortunately.

However, the FBI is making sure that these new revelations are being disclosed as they go along - and this is clearly to avoid Obama putting a gag order on them and sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

The top guys in the FBI aren't a bunch of liberal pansies, so that's why the constant leaks of what they're finding. Bambam is cut off at the pass.



She's going down - and not in a Monica kind of way, either.

He can't put a gag order on the FBI. Unless he's written an Executive Order appointing himself judge. And if he wants to take on the FBI, I need popcorn. That would start a chain reaction from Hell. Every other security agency would be cocking an eyebrow.

And yeah, I'm cynical. She's been getting away with BS, along with Bill, playing word games and "I didn't know" for 3 decades and been given a pass every time. You don't "not know" you have a clearance and you don't "not know" what classified material is and classified material not classified later. The opposite is how it works. It's classified from the get, THEN declassified later.

I hope like Hell she gets hammered. But think about THIS: if they drag this out and she's elected, her Chumly VP becomes President.

[Black Diamond]

Sometimes events overtake the parties. Hillary is not well liked, not by even her supporters, they just want her to win. That doesn't mean they are willing to take the party down as a whole. Nixon had a similar problem, he wasn't liked.

There's a lesson here...

Well I would certainly enjoy watching her crash and burn.

[Black Diamond]

He can't put a gag order on the FBI. Unless he's written an Executive Order appointing himself judge. And if he wants to take on the FBI, I need popcorn. That would start a chain reaction from Hell. Every other security agency would be cocking an eyebrow.

And yeah, I'm cynical. She's been getting away with BS, along with Bill, playing word games and "I didn't know" for 3 decades and been given a pass every time. You don't "not know" you have a clearance and you don't "not know" what classified material is and classified material not classified later. The opposite is how it works. It's classified from the get, THEN declassified later.

I hope like Hell she gets hammered. But think about THIS: if they drag this out and she's elected, her Chumly VP becomes President.

Sanders

[Gunny]

Sanders

I don't think she'll pick Sanders. I could be wrong and don't know enough to speculate too much. If she chooses that commie, she's risking losing moderate left voters.

[Black Diamond]

I don't think she'll pick Sanders. I could be wrong and don't know enough to speculate too much. If she chooses that commie, she's risking losing moderate left voters.

Hope he is not the veep. I'm sure whomever she chooses will be a tool.

[Gunny]

Hope he is not the veep. I'm sure whomever she chooses will be a tool.

That's a question? Of course he'll be a tool. If no one's studied the psychology of Hitlery, she's trying to outdo Bill, simple as that. She's not going to allow anyone nor anything to stand in her way and certainly no man. I have an insight on this one. A woman that wants to be in the military joins the Air Force. A woman that's out to prove something joins the Marine Corps. Pay is the same for each rank.

Hitlery is trying to prove she's better than Bill. And objectively, she's not even close. He was a piece of work at the time, but looking back, he was almost conservative compared to the crap we have now.

[Black Diamond]

That's a question? Of course he'll be a tool. If no one's studied the psychology of Hitlery, she's trying to outdo Bill, simple as that. She's not going to allow anyone nor anything to stand in her way and certainly no man. I have an insight on this one. A woman that wants to be in the military joins the Air Force. A woman that's out to prove something joins the Marine Corps. Pay is the same for each rank.

Hitlery is trying to prove she's better than Bill. And objectively, she's not even close. He was a piece of work at the time, but looking back, he was almost conservative compared to the crap we have now.

Oh I agree. This guy is far beyond anything imaginable

[Gunny]

Oh I agree. This guy is far beyond anything imaginable

One of the first things they teach you in sports and the military is you win as a team and you lose as a team. But it's the team, not the individual that wins. Michael Jordan couldn't carry the Bulls to the finals until he had a team around him. The 79-80 76ers had the best players in the NBA and lost to the Lakers in the Finals because they were too busy being individual stars to play as a team.

The GOP is supposed to be the coach here and put a team together that can win. Right now, the inmates are running the asylum.

[NightTrain]

I'm well aware of the investigating and what has been found so far. What I fail to see is any hope of her being indicted, especially before the elections.

How can she fail to be indicted? The law is the law, and it doesn't matter what Obama thinks or how Hellary spins it.

There were at least 2 Top Secret documents on her personal server (guaranteed a lot more than 2), and Bambam has already allowed others to fall on their sword for lesser offenses of exactly the same lawbreaking.


We might get lucky and she'll be a Nixon, win in a landslide in spite of what she's done, then face the consequences after. Have to remember though, Nixon was an anomaly.

The investigation is scheduled to be wrapped up in January, last I heard. Plenty of time to fashion a noose and find a suitable tree.

[Kathianne]

How can she fail to be indicted? The law is the law, and it doesn't matter what Obama thinks or how Hellary spins it.

There were at least 2 Top Secret documents on her personal server (guaranteed a lot more than 2), and Bambam has already allowed others to fall on their sword for lesser offenses of exactly the same lawbreaking.



The investigation is scheduled to be wrapped up in January, last I heard. Plenty of time to fashion a noose and find a suitable tree.

As I said, hope you are correct.

[Gunny]

How can she fail to be indicted? The law is the law, and it doesn't matter what Obama thinks or how Hellary spins it.

There were at least 2 Top Secret documents on her personal server (guaranteed a lot more than 2), and Bambam has already allowed others to fall on their sword for lesser offenses of exactly the same lawbreaking.



The investigation is scheduled to be wrapped up in January, last I heard. Plenty of time to fashion a noose and find a suitable tree.

Wasn't she indicted over Whitewater in the 90s? How'd THAT work out?

[NightTrain]

As I said, hope you are correct.


You and me both.


If there wasn't the constant leaking of more damning evidence from the FBI, I would be alarmed. They're doing their jobs as professionals and that tells me they'll arrive at the right conclusion no matter who is trying to pressure them into taking a dive.

[NightTrain]

Wasn't she indicted over Whitewater in the 90s? How'd THAT work out?

Hard evidence.

That's the difference this time, along with contradictory sworn testimony.

[Kathianne]

You and me both.


If there wasn't the constant leaking of more damning evidence from the FBI, I would be alarmed. They're doing their jobs as professionals and that tells me they'll arrive at the right conclusion no matter who is trying to pressure them into taking a dive.
The problem is the DOJ.

[NightTrain]

Wasn't she indicted over Whitewater in the 90s? How'd THAT work out?


And, no.

Neither of them were indicted, but everyone else around them got hammered.

[NightTrain]

The problem is the DOJ.


There's hard evidence. No grey area and pleading ignorance (laughable at best) is no defense. Them's the rules.

[Kathianne]

There's hard evidence. No grey area and pleading ignorance (laughable at best) is no defense. Them's the rules.

You trust that? I used to.

[Gunny]

And, no.

Neither of them were indicted, but everyone else around them got hammered.

I hate to be cruel since people are pissed at me already today, but I can't help myself. You need some crayons and construction paper to go along with that statement? :laugh2:

I'm not disagreeing with the legality. I could put her in prison for 3 5 year sentences and fine her $10k with just what I know. And if her name was PFC Schmuckatelli that's where she'd already be.

[Gunny]

There's hard evidence. No grey area and pleading ignorance (laughable at best) is no defense. Them's the rules.

And she can drag this out long enough to complete 1 and a half terms at least.

[NightTrain]

You trust that? I used to.


With this kind of international focus? You damn right.

There's no way to sweep it under the rug.

[NightTrain]

I hate to be cruel since people are pissed at me already today, but I can't help myself. You need some crayons and construction paper to go along with that statement? :laugh2:

I'm not disagreeing with the legality. I could put her in prison for 3 5 year sentences and fine her $10k with just what I know. And if her name was PFC Schmuckatelli that's where she'd already be.


Of course your average nobody would have been cuffed & stuffed long ago.

That's why this is dragging out - you have to be damn sure everything is done to perfection when leveling charges against a politically powerful person, or you're finished.

It's the same way in the military, and I'm sure you've seen that a million times. A high ranking CO doesn't have accusations made against him unless it's a slam dunk. Woe be to the knucklehead that doesn't think it through and bet his career and possibly his freedom on a half-assed charge.

[Black Diamond]

There's hard evidence. No grey area and pleading ignorance (laughable at best) is no defense. Them's the rules.

Which Hillary clearly is above.

[Black Diamond]

Like Charles Barkley said. I could be wrong, but I doubt it :cool:

[Gunny]

Of course your average nobody would have been cuffed & stuffed long ago.

That's why this is dragging out - you have to be damn sure everything is done to perfection when leveling charges against a politically powerful person, or you're finished.

It's the same way in the military, and I'm sure you've seen that a million times. A high ranking CO doesn't have accusations made against him unless it's a slam dunk. Woe be to the knucklehead that doesn't think it through and bet his career and possibly his freedom on a half-assed charge.

Thing is, this IS a slam dunk from a legal standpoint. Unclassified material on an unsecure server. End of story if you're in the military. High ranking officers have lower ranking officers, NCO's and clerks between them and any crime. And as dumb of officers as I've met, NONE were dumb enough to do something so stupid. Having lived on that side of the coin (military) that's why I don't get why no one seems to want to get this. I've had that crap ingrained in my brain so many times I STILL can't forget it.

There's a protocol for handling and transferring classified info. You sign forms. You get schooled twice a year. She has NO excuse in my book. If I was the prosecutor I'd rip her ass to pieces Day One. She wouldn't stand a chance and "I didn't know" doesn't get anyone else out of a trip to jail.

[Black Diamond]

Thing is, this IS a slam dunk from a legal standpoint. Unclassified material on an unsecure server. End of story if you're in the military. High ranking officers have lower ranking officers, NCO's and clerks between them and any crime. And as dumb of officers as I've met, NONE were dumb enough to do something so stupid. Having lived on that side of the coin (military) that's why I don't get why no one seems to want to get this. I've had that crap ingrained in my brain so many times I STILL can't forget it.

There's a protocol for handling and transferring classified info. You sign forms. You get schooled twice a year. She has NO excuse in my book. If I was the prosecutor I'd rip her ass to pieces Day One. She wouldn't stand a chance and "I didn't know" doesn't get anyone else out of a trip to jail.
What's the difference between what Hillary did and what Petraeus did?

[Gunny]

What's the difference between what Hillary did and what Petraeus did?

I'm actually not sure. I think I was tuned out from the world at the Petraeus time. The point is, the US Code is United States law and applies to ALL government employees. Not just the military. If she was a Marine, she'd be getting hammered by the UCMJ as well.

The double standard here reeks. Didn't John Walker get sentenced to a life sentence for giving "Confidential" material to the enemy? Christ, you can read confidential crap in the news. We were threatened with castration and put in a cell with a black guy called Bubba if we said one word. And THIS person is supposed to have access to COSMIC intel?

If she choked to death on a chicken bone 10 minutes ago I wouldn't miss her and would sleep just fine tonight.

[Abbey Marie]

The problem is the DOJ.


And the SC, should it come to that.

[gabosaurus]

In addition to being the funniest skit that Saturday Night Live has had for decades, this is a PERFECT summation of the last GOP debate in Las Vegas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Th70moeuc

[Abbey Marie]

I won't hold my breath for SNL's similarly mocking skit on the Dem debate.


Even though it was extremely mock-worthy.

[Kathianne]

I won't hold my breath for SNL's similarly mocking skit on the Dem debate.


Even though it was extremely mock-worthy.

I've pretty much found that there's little to see in most Gabby political posts. ;)

[gabosaurus]

I've pretty much found that there's little to see in most Gabby political posts. ;)

It's the GOP way of life -- the blind leading the blind.
But I love you otherwise. :cheers2:

[Kathianne]

It's the GOP way of life -- the blind leading the blind.
But I love you otherwise. :cheers2:

You didn't get the memo? I'm not 'conservative,' it's been decreed. ;)

[gabosaurus]

You didn't get the memo? I'm not 'conservative,' it's been decreed. ;)

Ah yes, I forgot about that. You and tyr, right? :salute:

[Gunny]

Ah yes, I forgot about that. You and tyr, right? :salute:

Maybe YOU didn't get the memo. Quite a few people on here aren't "conservative" anymore than you even come close to the term "liberal". Fascist would be a better descriptor for you lefties. I don't need to be told how to think by people stupider than my damn boot.