Members leaving

[jimnyc]

I don't want members leaving. We had another bad loss overnight, a long time member bailing.

I try to work with the board as a whole. Generally speaking, I'll make changes for the board as we go along based on what everyone here wants. I don't want to lose friends and members, so that's what we do to work with one another. And then there's the "personal" me, as a regular poster. If someone as am issue, I love to work things out via PM, and have. I'm confident many here can vouch for me sending PM's to apologize and make amends for my actions. I know that doesn't make actions go away, but it helps things a tad.

Then there are issues between members. I truly, truly do my best to help such situations. It's a no win situation for me and the board from the very moment it's brought to my attention. I work to make everyone happy, but usually fail. :)

I know I often offer the ignore button, and members roll their eyes at me. Understand, that's an option that helps all parties remain happy. It makes the most sense the majority of times. It's what it best for all of us. Then other times I get folks to back off the best I can. The banning is extremely rare, and I know that often pisses folks off too, while at the same time some respect the board for that.

Then we have issues like we have now. Where there is an awful lot of fighting - between members - over political candidates and comments and all that jazz. It leads to bad things said, some insults and harsh feelings between members. But I don't want folks leaving. Not over stupid candidates, and our arguments over them that leads to passionate responses.

All I'm asking - before hitting the submit button - take 3 seconds to think about what your posting - and whether or not there's a possibility the other member may want to bail from this joint as a result. Sounds stupid, but will 3 seconds kill you?

And yes, before anyone says it, I know I am very often guilty of the things I point out. :(

[Kathianne]

I understand how some of the 'bailers' feel though personally I don't think that is the best way to address the problems here or within our country in the larger scheme of things. I share some of the feelings that DS expressed and Rev has pointed out many a time. Disagreeing with the majority-which really comes with more than 5 vocal members on a smallish board, tends to lead to labeling of the minority members by said majority.

I won't walk away. I find myself not participating at the level I did in the past, my manner of participation has also changed I know. Some of this is just a reaction to behaviors of others, from bombast to passive-aggressive posts. One always has to decide how much time and effort to exert when faced with closed minds. Bottom line though is the hope that one's opinions of others is wrong, especially when not so long ago a different opinion was strongly held.

[jimnyc]

I understand how some of the 'bailers' feel though personally I don't think that is the best way to address the problems here or within our country in the larger scheme of things. I share some of the feelings that DS expressed and Rev has pointed out many a time. Disagreeing with the majority-which really comes with more than 5 vocal members on a smallish board, tends to lead to labeling of the minority members by said majority.

I won't walk away. I find myself not participating at the level I did in the past, my manner of participation has also changed I know. Some of this is just a reaction to behaviors of others, from bombast to passive-aggressive posts. One always has to decide how much time and effort to exert when faced with closed minds. Bottom line though is the hope that one's opinions of others is wrong, especially when not so long ago a different opinion was strongly held.

I have made some REALLY great friends here. Never mind I own the place, this is me speaking as a regular member. No way in hell I bail if I have good friends. I would use the ignore button. I would simply ignore the best I can if I "must" read posts. I would fight back at those who piss me off. I would do what I can to make things more pleasant for myself here. I STILL don't understand the reluctance of folks to make others disappear, but respect their decisions not to.

I've noticed yourself AND Rev, purposely avoid certain threads, so as not to get involved in something that may make you angry, or feel bad about being involved in. Kudos to you guys, as I try, and fail a lot. But I'm not gonna leave. And if my failing made me upset, THEN I would place said person on ignore. But I admit that it takes a LOT more to push me away than it does others.

Then I know you and Rev will come roaring back. :)

Things on these boards come and go, and that includes the fighting and animosity and all the bad things. You of all people should know that. I think this election season getting started, and then Trump turning things upside down, has really gotten folks here biting at one another here like we are cast members on The Walking Dead!! Folks on the "same side" are eating one another (out of the gutter, bastards!).

Hopefully folks will learn that we disagree on candidates at this point, but that in the end, many of us are on the same side, many of us our friends. Some of us are on opposite sides but still friends. :) And then, some will leave and wish death upon me (NT Will remember, there was a girl that kept joining the board back in 2003 from Canada. She truly hated me. One of her user names in fact was "jimnycWillDie" and other lovely thoughts! I don't remember fully, but I can't imagine anyone getting angry with me. :dunno: :)

[Noir]

DS leaving sucks, maybe a return after the whole Trump thing dies will be on the cards though since that looks like the epicentre of the problem, it's interesting that it's not just here I'm seeing similar conservative infighting over trump though.
The board does seems a bit angrier than it use to be though certainly, there seems to be a weird desire for conservatives to out other conservatives as leftie/liberal/PC types etc.

[Kathianne]

I have made some REALLY great friends here. Never mind I own the place, this is me speaking as a regular member. No way in hell I bail if I have good friends. I would use the ignore button. I would simply ignore the best I can if I "must" read posts. I would fight back at those who piss me off. I would do what I can to make things more pleasant for myself here. I STILL don't understand the reluctance of folks to make others disappear, but respect their decisions not to.

I've noticed yourself AND Rev, purposely avoid certain threads, so as not to get involved in something that may make you angry, or feel bad about being involved in. Kudos to you guys, as I try, and fail a lot. But I'm not gonna leave. And if my failing made me upset, THEN I would place said person on ignore. But I admit that it takes a LOT more to push me away than it does others.

Then I know you and Rev will come roaring back. :)

Things on these boards come and go, and that includes the fighting and animosity and all the bad things. You of all people should know that. I think this election season getting started, and then Trump turning things upside down, has really gotten folks here biting at one another here like we are cast members on The Walking Dead!! Folks on the "same side" are eating one another (out of the gutter, bastards!).

Hopefully folks will learn that we disagree on candidates at this point, but that in the end, many of us are on the same side, many of us our friends. Some of us are on opposite sides but still friends. :) And then, some will leave and wish death upon me (NT Will remember, there was a girl that kept joining the board back in 2003 from Canada. She truly hated me. One of her user names in fact was "jimnycWillDie" and other lovely thoughts! I don't remember fully, but I can't imagine anyone getting angry with me. :dunno: :)

Why is it always the women that are nuttier than fruitcakes? I know, very sexist of me. Then I remember Robert and Maineman and feel ever so much better. LOL!

I have some very close and long term girlfriends, though thinking about it all are pretty much like myself-pretty direct and not passive-aggressive.

[Kathianne]

DS leaving sucks, maybe a return after the whole Trump thing dies will be on the cards though since that looks like the epicentre of the problem, it's interesting that it's not just here I'm seeing similar conservative infighting over trump though.
The board does seems a bit angrier than it use to be though certainly, there seems to be a weird desire for conservatives to out other conservatives as leftie/liberal/PC types etc.

It's an attempt to philosophically blackmail those that disagree with their idea of fait accompli. Their insecurities manifest themselves with self-proclaimed authority and omniscience.

[jimnyc]

DS leaving sucks, maybe a return after the whole Trump thing dies will be on the cards though since that looks like the epicentre of the problem, it's interesting that it's not just here I'm seeing similar conservative infighting over trump though.
The board does seems a bit angrier than it use to be though certainly, there seems to be a weird desire for conservatives to out other conservatives as leftie/liberal/PC types etc.

That's what I see. The animosity and fighting is everywhere. Others can go look at the other political boards, lots of great fighting everywhere!!

No one wants a liberal in office (no offense). Everyone has different ideas on how to prevent that, and which candidate is best suited to make it happen. That's where it comes from, IMO. But either way, it's not unusual for this point in the cycle, just a little worse at this point.

Can we perhaps beat up on you every now and again, maybe take our anger out on you? :poke: :laugh:

[jimnyc]

Why is it always the women that are nuttier than fruitcakes? I know, very sexist of me. Then I remember Robert and Maineman and feel ever so much better. LOL!

I have some very close and long term girlfriends, though thinking about it all are pretty much like myself-pretty direct and not passive-aggressive.

Whit. Wow. Talk about a stubborn old mule. I kinda liked him for awhile, believe it or not. Then I realized he was nuttier than I was!!

[Perianne]

I read that about DS. I don't really "know" him, but I hate that he has left us.

As for rev, noir, and fj, I like having them here. I have reached out to rev before. I told him he is having some influence on me (though changing the core of a person takes a long time...and that person has to be willing to change). I rarely/never agree with revelarts, but I do enjoy reading his posts and arguments. Same with fj. This forum would be much worse without those two.

I wish we could all not call each other names (except in fun). I don't understand how men really interact, but I know anger and viciousness when I see it. I think revelarts in particular gets too much vitriol. I think he is a kind person. He makes his points in a clear and respectful manner. And if you think of it, isn't that what we all should do?

[darin]

Be excellent to eachother, you fockers. it's easy.

:)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't want members leaving. We had another bad loss overnight, a long time member bailing.

I try to work with the board as a whole. Generally speaking, I'll make changes for the board as we go along based on what everyone here wants. I don't want to lose friends and members, so that's what we do to work with one another. And then there's the "personal" me, as a regular poster. If someone as am issue, I love to work things out via PM, and have. I'm confident many here can vouch for me sending PM's to apologize and make amends for my actions. I know that doesn't make actions go away, but it helps things a tad.

Then there are issues between members. I truly, truly do my best to help such situations. It's a no win situation for me and the board from the very moment it's brought to my attention. I work to make everyone happy, but usually fail. :)

I know I often offer the ignore button, and members roll their eyes at me. Understand, that's an option that helps all parties remain happy. It makes the most sense the majority of times. It's what it best for all of us. Then other times I get folks to back off the best I can. The banning is extremely rare, and I know that often pisses folks off too, while at the same time some respect the board for that.

Then we have issues like we have now. Where there is an awful lot of fighting - between members - over political candidates and comments and all that jazz. It leads to bad things said, some insults and harsh feelings between members. But I don't want folks leaving. Not over stupid candidates, and our arguments over them that leads to passionate responses.

All I'm asking - before hitting the submit button - take 3 seconds to think about what your posting - and whether or not there's a possibility the other member may want to bail from this joint as a result. Sounds stupid, but will 3 seconds kill you?

And yes, before anyone says it, I know I am very often guilty of the things I point out. :(

DS left the board! Damn, I had hoped it was fj. I liked DS and he made DAMN good posts even if we sometimes did not agree.. I truly hope he returns.. -Tyr

[gabosaurus]

As always, I view DP as Hotel California. You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave. :cool:

I get unhappy with a lot of things I see here. And, as a liberal, a lot of those things are directed at me.
The one thing you have to remember is that DP is not reality. IT'S THE INTERNET. If you get too angry, click on that red square and chill out for a while. Give yourself a "time out" to accept the reality that life is not fair and sometimes people are mean to you.

https://jillianfactotum.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/20130811-122401.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6126/5964832054_720238ee17.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

What amazes me by these recent events is that the board is a much, much, softer place than it was just a few years ago. Old timers here remember how people used to rip each other up. Somehow we survived all that, but we can't survive this Presidential election cycle on this kinder, gentler board?

Board points:
I think we need to take a step back and not take things sooo personally. The title of the board is Debate Policy. It was named that for a reason. Yes, some of us have become friends, too, but isn't debate the fundamental reason we were drawn here? Leaving over political debate of all things is therefore weird, IMO. And as for the accusation of piling on- that is one derogatory way of characterizing a situation where the majority of people have one opinion, and express it to a minority. It always looks worse when you disagree with the majority.

Political points:
I guess I am in an odd position, because Trump has never been close to being my guy, but I don't hate him, either. I just think we can do better [Dr Carson, Ted Cruz]. He is saying the things that many people are feeling these days because our leaders won't lead or recognize how many people feel. That leads to great frustration, and the desire to latch on to anyone willing to say the things they need to hear. Which, as some here have been saying, can lead to electing an unstable candidate.

This reminds me of what I didn't like about the debates. We are so busy attacking each other over a Republican candidate, very few are taking Hillary or Bernie to task. My fondest political wish right now is that Republicans can coalesce over a candidate, and remember who we need to defeat next year, and how crucial it is to do so.

Personal points:
I have said publicly several times that people need to be cool with Rev. He is always respectful regardless of how he feels, and has much to offer.

I also think it is kind of sad when people just up and leave even though Jim works hard to make people happy here.

Now please don't try to pick apart my reply. It is heartfelt, and took awhile to write while my leg is in pain!
:beer:

[Drummond]

The board does seems a bit angrier than it use to be though certainly, there seems to be a weird desire for conservatives to out other conservatives as leftie/liberal/PC types etc.

Yes ... I'd noticed that, too.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What amazes me by these recent events is that the board is a much, much, softer place than it was just a few years ago. Old timers here remember how people used to rip each other up. Somehow we survived all that, but we can't survive this Presidential election cycle on this kinder, gentler board?

Board points:
I think we need to take a step back and not take things sooo personally. The title of the board is Debate Policy. It was named that for a reason. Yes, some of us have become friends, too, but isn't debate the fundamental reason we were drawn here? Leaving over political debate of all things is therefore weird, IMO. And as for the accusation of piling on- that is one derogatory way of characterizing a situation where the majority of people have one opinion, and express it to a minority. It always looks worse when you disagree with the majority.

Political points:
I guess I am in an odd position, because Trump has never been close to being my guy, but I don't hate him, either. I just think we can do better [Dr Carson, Ted Cruz]. He is saying the things that many people are feeling these days because our leaders won't lead or recognize how many people feel. That leads to great frustration, and the desire to latch on to anyone willing to say the things they need to hear. Which, as some here have been saying, can lead to electing an unstable candidate.

This reminds me of what I didn't like about the debates. We are so busy attacking each other over a Republican candidate, very few are taking Hillary or Bernie to task. My fondest political wish right now is that Republicans can coalesce over a candidate, and remember who we need to defeat next year, and how crucial it is to do so.

Personal points:
I have said publicly several times that people need to be cool with Rev. He is always respectful regardless of how he feels, and has much to offer.

I also think it is kind of sad when people just up and leave even though Jim works hard to make people happy here.

Now please don't try to pick apart my reply. It is heartfelt, and took awhile to write while my leg is in pain!
:beer:

Well Abby , I agree with that. And this reply is not one of my "bombastic" ones.
I just never realized I was to not speak freely here and relay my true thoughts yet lately it seems , my method is labeled as bombastic and harsh.
I AM THE SAME PERSON I'VE ALWAYS BEEN..
If that disappoints some of my friends, then sorry but this old dog in his last few years on earth is not going to change about speaking my mind.
Replied to you , but this is addressed to everybody here. -Tyr

[Kathianne]

Well Abby , I agree with that. And this reply is not one of my "bombastic" ones.
I just never realized I was to not speak freely here and relay my true thoughts yet lately it seems , my method is labeled as bombastic and harsh.
I AM THE SAME PERSON I'VE ALWAYS BEEN..
If that disappoints some of my friends, then sorry but this old dog in his last few years on earth is not going to change about speaking my mind.
Replied to you , but this is addressed to everybody here. -Tyr
If you are referring to my use of bombastic, don't take it personally. I surely didn't mean you, it was to anyone that uses such language and tone.

[Gunny]

I don't want members leaving. We had another bad loss overnight, a long time member bailing.

I try to work with the board as a whole. Generally speaking, I'll make changes for the board as we go along based on what everyone here wants. I don't want to lose friends and members, so that's what we do to work with one another. And then there's the "personal" me, as a regular poster. If someone as am issue, I love to work things out via PM, and have. I'm confident many here can vouch for me sending PM's to apologize and make amends for my actions. I know that doesn't make actions go away, but it helps things a tad.

Then there are issues between members. I truly, truly do my best to help such situations. It's a no win situation for me and the board from the very moment it's brought to my attention. I work to make everyone happy, but usually fail. :)

I know I often offer the ignore button, and members roll their eyes at me. Understand, that's an option that helps all parties remain happy. It makes the most sense the majority of times. It's what it best for all of us. Then other times I get folks to back off the best I can. The banning is extremely rare, and I know that often pisses folks off too, while at the same time some respect the board for that.

Then we have issues like we have now. Where there is an awful lot of fighting - between members - over political candidates and comments and all that jazz. It leads to bad things said, some insults and harsh feelings between members. But I don't want folks leaving. Not over stupid candidates, and our arguments over them that leads to passionate responses.

All I'm asking - before hitting the submit button - take 3 seconds to think about what your posting - and whether or not there's a possibility the other member may want to bail from this joint as a result. Sounds stupid, but will 3 seconds kill you?

And yes, before anyone says it, I know I am very often guilty of the things I point out. :(

Happens EVERY election cycle. Tempers get heated. Politics is driving me nuts right now, I just try to not take it out on everyone else. Yes, I have a sarcastic posting style but as anyone who knows me knows if I intend to offend, there'll be no doubt in anyone's mind.

I don't like people leaving. At the same time, you can't just kiss their asses and give them the keys to the kingdom. I was off the net for several years but it wasn't because of anything done to me or said to me. It was because it was what was best for ME. If someone is so intolerant they can't be disagreed with on a forum designed for debate, don't know what to tell that person. It's also one of my pet peeves. How the Hell am I supposed to debate with someone that agrees with me? Usually a pretty short conversation. :laugh:

And yes. you DO always lose. You NEVER screw one of the waitresses because the next day, they think they're special, don't have to work, and all the other waitresses hate you. Never drink beer in port with a Marine that decides the next day they don't have to do morning cleanup because they are hung over from drinking with the Gunny. The only friends you have are the ones that know when you're drinking beer, you're drinking beer; and, when you're back on the boat I'm the damned boss.

I've always understood the distinction and perhaps it's my fault I don't get why others can't or won't. My best friend before I joined the Corps was my boss at work. At work, he was the boss. At Big Daddy's we were drinking buddies.

In the end, you have to do what's best for all. You lose more catering to an individual than you'll ever lose if one person stomps off.

[revelarts]

I'm REALLY sad that DragonStrike feels compelled to leave, he's not anywhere close to a liberal or leftie or whatever and is a thoughtful content filled poster. When Jafar left I was sad but not surprised. the way he was often personally berated by the group. After awhile who wants to put up with that just for voicing your opinion and trying to make your case as you see it. Conservatives used to talk about winning hearts and minds. what happened to that?

I don't know that's it's just about trump. IMO the "compassionate conservative" is leaving the building or being driven out of republican politics in general.
Seems the only people included in the "real conservatives" club are those who want to ban or kill the things they don't like or doesn't look right and those that are willing to deny any problems with the things they respect.

That may sound like i'm OVERstating the case. but can someone show me ANY harsh act or words, any unconstitutional "suggestions" made about illegals, Muslims, blacks, homosexuals, Iran, the poor, even women, that has not been cheered or given a pass. Or any systematic offenses by military, police or favored official or candidate that can't be forgiven, overlooked or finally justified. (often justified by saying -fill-in-the-blank is worse)

Taking time to a drill down to details of facts passed stereotypes and sound bites is consider "gibberish", a "wall of words", assumed lies, "leftie" or "weak". Because only being willing to torture and kill every problem group or issue is "strong".:rolleyes:.

Admitting that no one's ALL wrong is not an option somehow.
folks here pounce and assume the worse of others views claiming things like --- if you don't want to do it MY WAY then you REALLY want to do Nothing-- and are secretly and COMPLETELY against the U.S., against "regular people", against safety, against the police, against whites males, against U.S. exceptionalism and complete global dominance (imperialism?). And WORKING FOR fill-in-the-blank- punching bag group of the day that's going to destroy the country any day now. IMO It's cartoonish. but some seem to view it as reality.
Can people have "Debates" with that attitude on one side? How can you have honest conversations from there?

the left has people of the same type of mind set where any disagreement on certain points... even small points... puts others in the "enemy" camp, and not to be trusted. But conservatives claim to be better more rational than that but have increasing SHOWN that they are the same IMO. It's politics as dogma rather than issues to be discussed and fixed by all as fellow americans.

DragonStrike is a huge lost here. he said why he left, is he completely wrong?

[NightTrain]

All I'll say about it is that I'm surprised Dragon would get his panties bunched like that.

Happy trails, dude.

[Gunny]

All I'll say about it is that I'm surprised Dragon would get his panties bunched like that.

Happy trails, dude.

I don't know what y'all do all night, but this is two days in a row all Hell's broke loose and I'm feeling like the mushroom. I wouldn't have even known had my GF not said something to me. There could be more to it than just us and we just get the dirty end of the stick. He hasn't seemed like the DS I've ever known. Seems to be a lot more antagonistic and looking to be offended.

But as I told my GF, while I don't like seeing people leave, those three posts a week aren't exactly going to destroy anything around here.:laugh:

[PixieStix]

It is an election cycle, people get riled up. No one should take it personally. I hope he comes back. These things usually iron themselves out.

There is a lot at stake here, and it is understandable that people get upset.

[NightTrain]

I don't know what y'all do all night, but this is two days in a row all Hell's broke loose and I'm feeling like the mushroom. I wouldn't have even known had my GF not said something to me. There could be more to it than just us and we just get the dirty end of the stick. He hasn't seemed like the DS I've ever known. Seems to be a lot more antagonistic and looking to be offended.

But as I told my GF, while I don't like seeing people leave, those three posts a week aren't exactly going to destroy anything around here.:laugh:


Yup.

Maybe when his panties untwist a bit, he'll return.

Adults taking offense and storming out of here in a tantrum has never impressed me much.

[PixieStix]

We are at war with Islamic terrorism, and with political correctness. This is going to be a tough year. So put on the armor

[Gunny]

We are at war with Islamic terrorism, and with political correctness. This is going to be a tough year. So put on the armor

I'm just trying to not pay attention it too much. Before you ever put on the armor you need a plan. The Right seems to be using the same plan that hasn't worked last two elections. Like quit having these moronic debates that tell you nothing except who is the most camera friendly and has the snappiest answers; get ONE candidate and vote for him or her.

As any military person this board can tell you, this is offensive. The GOP is doing the dirty work for the Dems. How many times do think you can use the same plan that doesn't work before you decide to get a new damned plan?

As far as members leaving, I don't know who said what to who. But you damned sure don't win a game by taking your ball and going home.

[Gunny]

I'm REALLY sad that DragonStrike feels compelled to leave, he's not anywhere close to a liberal or leftie or whatever and is a thoughtful content filled poster. When Jafar left I was sad but not surprised. the way he was often personally berated by the group. After awhile who wants to put up with that just for voicing your opinion and trying to make your case as you see it. Conservatives used to talk about winning hearts and minds. what happened to that?

I don't know that's it's just about trump. IMO the "compassionate conservative" is leaving the building or being driven out of republican politics in general.
Seems the only people included in the "real conservatives" club are those who want to ban or kill the things they don't like or doesn't look right and those that are willing to deny any problems with the things they respect.

That may sound like i'm OVERstating the case. but can someone show me ANY harsh act or words, any unconstitutional "suggestions" made about illegals, Muslims, blacks, homosexuals, Iran, the poor, even women, that has not been cheered or given a pass. Or any systematic offenses by military, police or favored official or candidate that can't be forgiven, overlooked or finally justified. (often justified by saying -fill-in-the-blank is worse)

Taking time to a drill down to details of facts passed stereotypes and sound bites is consider "gibberish", a "wall of words", assumed lies, "leftie" or "weak". Because only being willing to torture and kill every problem group or issue is "strong".:rolleyes:.

Admitting that no one's ALL wrong is not an option somehow.
folks here pounce and assume the worse of others views claiming things like --- if you don't want to do it MY WAY then you REALLY want to do Nothing-- and are secretly and COMPLETELY against the U.S., against "regular people", against safety, against the police, against whites males, against U.S. exceptionalism and complete global dominance (imperialism?). And WORKING FOR fill-in-the-blank- punching bag group of the day that's going to destroy the country any day now. IMO It's cartoonish. but some seem to view it as reality.
Can people have "Debates" with that attitude on one side? How can you have honest conversations from there?

the left has people of the same type of mind set where any disagreement on certain points... even small points... puts others in the "enemy" camp, and not to be trusted. But conservatives claim to be better more rational than that but have increasing SHOWN that they are the same IMO. It's politics as dogma rather than issues to be discussed and fixed by all as fellow americans.

DragonStrike is a huge lost here. he said why he left, is he completely wrong?

When was the last time you admitted YOU were wrong? I can't think of once in forever.

I also think people misuse the word "wrong". I'm not wrong because I'm different or have a different opinion. THAT (try to learn something here) is TRUE tolerance. You're trying to once again quantify something that you can't. If I think I'm right, you're damned right I'm right. And you CAN BE wrong. What I've seen over the years are total misuses of the word "liar" and "wrong". Being factually wrong is just being factually wrong. Being a liar is purposefully intending to mislead someone with false facts.

And being different is neither of the above.

[Black Diamond]

The political climate in this country is an angry one. This is the most divided the nation has ever been. Obama is the most radical President ever and the most divisive. We are divided politically, racially, and economically. You add to that the republicans have not done their part in stopping Obama as they promised and we get the current political climate. This message board is a microcosm of the political arena right now IMO.

[Elessar]

I agree with a lot of the above comments. However, if one sees the need to depart
for a while, so be it.

Seemingly we are all adults, and many stuck in our own ways. Bottom line
point seems to be respect.

I do not agree with a few people here, but respect them, and in fact enjoy
listening to their thoughts.

Rev...Real good.

Gabby...sometimes very good and silly.

FJ...Not bad..

Might not see things their way, but it is
all human nature.

[Gunny]

The political climate in this country is an angry one. This is the most divided the nation has ever been. Obama is the most radical President ever and the most divisive. We are divided politically, racially, and economically. You add to that the republicans have not done their part in stopping Obama as they promised and we get the current political climate. This message board is a microcosm of the political arena right now IMO.

Actually, no. It was just as divided in the 1820s and the 1850s. John Quincy Adams v Andrew Jackson was a war. And the Civil War was the Civil War. This country has always been divided between those that work for a living and those that think they are entitled. The bureaucracy that is DC, not one party or the other, keeps the divisiveness alive so we're always looking at the THEIR stupid stories instead of WHAT they are doing. SUcking off our tax dollars and living a comfortable life.

They like to pretend each stands for something different but it's a smokescreen. Unless someone wants to tell me how the Republicans were the lefties during the Civil War and the Dems the conservatives and they've jockeyed around so much they've reversed roles? Whatever story they can stick in the news to keep your eyes glued to it, keeps your eyes off them. All they care about is maintaining their paychecks and perks. And people keep putting them back in office.

[indago]

So, why did DS leave?

[Black Diamond]

So, why did DS leave?

Too many trump supporters, apparently.

[gabosaurus]

What amazes me by these recent events is that the board is a much, much, softer place than it was just a few years ago. Old timers here remember how people used to rip each other up. Somehow we survived all that, but we can't survive this Presidential election cycle on this kinder, gentler board?

There are relative newcomers (less than five years or so) who believe I am somewhat crazy and extremely liberal. Be glad you never interacted with me a decade or so ago when I was REALLY hardcore liberal. My current incarnation is Gabosaurus Light in comparison. :laugh:

Plus there are many of you that never got the pleasure of being properly told off by Stephanie. Or drunkenly harangued by Psychoblues.

[Perianne]

deleted by Peri

[Gunny]

There are relative newcomers (less than five years or so) who believe I am somewhat crazy and extremely liberal. Be glad you never interacted with me a decade or so ago when I was REALLY hardcore liberal. My current incarnation is Gabosaurus Light in comparison. :laugh:

Plus there are many of you that never got the pleasure of being properly told off by Stephanie. Or drunkenly harangued by Psychoblues.

You should be glad YOU didn't interact with ME a decade ago. And I banned them both.

[Elessar]

There are relative newcomers (less than five years or so) who believe I am somewhat crazy and extremely liberal. Be glad you never interacted with me a decade or so ago when I was REALLY hardcore liberal. My current incarnation is Gabosaurus Light in comparison. :laugh:

Plus there are many of you that never got the pleasure of being properly told off by Stephanie. Or drunkenly harangued by Psychoblues.

I think you are actually pretty cool, really. I have seen far worse.

[Kathianne]

Too many trump supporters, apparently.
Nah, that wasn't bothering him. The problem is some of those supporters truly are trying to shut up any dissension. Some do so aggressively, some more passive aggressively. Either way, same result.

[Perianne]

Nah, that wasn't bothering him. The problem is some of those supporters truly are trying to shut up any dissension. Some do so aggressively, some more passive aggressively. Either way, same result.

As is the anti-Trump group. The anti-Trump group believes they have insight that the Trump supporters don't have, thus, they see themselves as superior.

[Kathianne]

As is the anti-Trump group. The anti-Trump group believes they have insight that the Trump supporters don't have, thus, they see themselves as superior.

Actually, not. Not here anyways. There are literally dozens of threads on Trump, with very little dissension for the simple reason that when one tries to bring up specifics, they get personally ridiculed and their patriotism questioned.

When others try to discuss other candidates, with the exception of Abbey, they are met with the responses that that person would make a great underling to the donald.

When one has no greater criticism of their own candidate other than, 'perhaps he should have chosen better words, but hell he doesn't have a PC bone in his body, I love that!' Blah, blah, blah... They are really not looking at more than they want to see.

Seriously all have a right, even a duty to use what they will to make a choice; what isn't cool is the real attempts to prevent any discussion of the leading candidate at this time. It surely doesn't hold for Hillary and hasn't been the case in other elections or with other candidates.

[Gunny]

Nah, that wasn't bothering him. The problem is some of those supporters truly are trying to shut up any dissension. Some do so aggressively, some more passive aggressively. Either way, same result.

No one's done it to me but they're welcome to try. :) My family always votes Democrat. I haven't killed any of them but they quit getting in my face awhile back.

I don't like Trump. I don't like the fact the media is pushing him because they know he can't win like they did McCain. I don't like his big mouth and empty promises abd I don't like the fact he's got appeal with a minority of angry people who can't win. Might as well vote for Hillary and be done.

[Black Diamond]

Nah, that wasn't bothering him. The problem is some of those supporters truly are trying to shut up any dissension. Some do so aggressively, some more passive aggressively. Either way, same result.
People are angry. That happens when people are angry, although trump isn't my guy and I haven't had trouble with Trump supporters.

[Black Diamond]

We are at war with Islamic terrorism, and with political correctness. This is going to be a tough year. So put on the armor

Well said. This board is a microcosm of the political environment in the nation.

[Black Diamond]

No one's done it to me but they're welcome to try. :) My family always votes Democrat. I haven't killed any of them but they quit getting in my face awhile back.

I don't like Trump. I don't like the fact the media is pushing him because they know he can't win like they did McCain. I don't like his big mouth and empty promises abd I don't like the fact he's got appeal with a minority of angry people who can't win. Might as well vote for Hillary and be done.
If there's another 9/11, it could catapult him right into the White House.

[Gunny]

People are angry. That happens when people are angry, although trump isn't my guy and I haven't had trouble with Trump supporters.

Yeah, but you don't have a reputation for having a wonderful temperment. It takes years to acquire. :) I don't care if Trump's not my guy. If he ends up the candidate, I got an anti-democrat vote sitting in the chamber. finger on the trigger.

[Black Diamond]

Actually, no. It was just as divided in the 1820s and the 1850s. John Quincy Adams v Andrew Jackson was a war. And the Civil War was the Civil War. This country has always been divided between those that work for a living and those that think they are entitled. The bureaucracy that is DC, not one party or the other, keeps the divisiveness alive so we're always looking at the THEIR stupid stories instead of WHAT they are doing. SUcking off our tax dollars and living a comfortable life.

They like to pretend each stands for something different but it's a smokescreen. Unless someone wants to tell me how the Republicans were the lefties during the Civil War and the Dems the conservatives and they've jockeyed around so much they've reversed roles? Whatever story they can stick in the news to keep your eyes glued to it, keeps your eyes off them. All they care about is maintaining their paychecks and perks. And people keep putting them back in office.
Well Trump, Carson, and Carly are supposed to be the antithesis of that. They are the anti-establishment.

[Black Diamond]

Yeah, but you don't have a reputation for having a wonderful temperment. It takes years to acquire. :) I don't care if Trump's not my guy. If he ends up the candidate, I got an anti-democrat vote sitting in the chamber. finger on the trigger.

Me too. I feel like right now Cruz is the only obstacle he faces to the nomination. Then it's Trump vs Hillary.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The political climate in this country is an angry one. This is the most divided the nation has ever been. Obama is the most radical President ever and the most divisive. We are divided politically, racially, and economically. You add to that the republicans have not done their part in stopping Obama as they promised and we get the current political climate. This message board is a microcosm of the political arena right now IMO.
Some of us see that and some do not.
They want it to be politics as usual which is daft IMHO--AS it hasn't been politics as usual since the traitorous bastard obama came on the scene.
and we conservatives screamed for what Trump now does and says-yet some demand we call him crazy, etc.
I do not now and never have yielded to demands.
Nor have I attacked any of their chosen candidates as they have attacked mine!
Yet we are being called trolls,a gang, a rude group etc.
Jeff stopped ,posting over that very thing and now rarely even posts.
I think some people should look in the mirror first IMHO.
I have stated from the get go--I''ll support whomever wins the damn nomination!
I've not heard the die-hard Trump haters here say that they'd do the same.
Division stands here and in my bunker I think its not us casting aspersions and trying to shut others down.
nuff said...
Hell, I'll support even Bush or the damn huckster or that fat-ass piece of shit Christie over any dem any day!

I hope this isnt too damn bombastic.. Its just me being me... So shoot me.
I ain't any different in being this way than say- gunny is..
We both say damn well, what we think.-- Tyr

[PixieStix]

Well Trump, Carson, and Carly are supposed to be the antithesis of that. They are the anti-establishment.

I wonder if anyone here has seen any of Trump Rally's?

He is quite amazing. I like people who say what is on their mind. I also like what he has to say.

A quote from an RNC chairwoman in Iowa

"Mr Trump, you have freed us from the bonds of political correctness"

He took questions made jokes and answered the questions.

I believe Donald Trump loves this country with all his heart.

AND he said Merry Christmas.

He is indeed anti establishment

[Gunny]

Me too. I feel like right now Cruz is the only obstacle he faces to the nomination. Then it's Trump vs Hillary.

If it's Trump v Hillary plan on forwarding my mail to Costa Rica. Trump can't win. As a matter of fact, none of the GOP nominees can unless some people switch gears and start paying attention to the end game. WE are supposed to win. That means ONE nominee we are all behind. The left has that. We've got a bunch of bargain basement models arguing every month on TV.

[Black Diamond]

Some of us see that and some do not.
They want it to be politics as usual which is daft IMHO--AS it hasn't been politics as usual since the traitorous bastard obama came on the scene.
and we conservatives screamed for what Trump now does and says-yet some demand we call him crazy, etc.
I do not now and never have yielded to demands.
Nor have I attacked any of their chosen candidates as they have attacked mine!
Yet we are being called trolls,a gang, a rude group etc.
Jeff stopped ,posting over that very thing and now rarely even posts.
I think some people should look in the mirror first IMHO.
I have stated from the get go--I''ll support whomever wins the damn nomination!
I've not heard the die-hard Trump haters here say that they'd do the same.
Division stands here and in my bunker I think its not us casting aspersions and trying to shut others down.
nuff said...
Hell, I'll support even Bush or the damn huckster or that fat-ass piece of shit Christie over any dem any day!

I hope this isnt too damn bombastic.. Its just me being me... So shoot me.
I ain't any different in being this way than say- gunny is..
We both say damn well, what we think.-- Tyr

Tell Jeff to get his granola ass in here. This is horseshit. :cool: and I want you posting here too. And if it's Trump vs Hillary, I am screaming Trump 2016 from the rooftops. I just don't know who I am voting for in the primaries yet. I like Carly, but her days in this race may be numbered.

[Gunny]

Tell Jeff to get his granola ass in here. This is horseshit. :cool: and I want you posting here too. And if it's Trump vs Hillary, I am screaming Trump 2016 from the rooftops. I just don't know who I am voting for in the primaries yet. I like Carly, but her days in this race may be numbered.

He's probably cultivating his bean sprouts or some other sissy-ass vegetarian crap. However, last I heard, Jim, Jeff and their dad are off doing some dumbass redneck BS for the weekend.

[Kathianne]

Related:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/no-political-guardrails-1449792484

As said, Obama & Co. created the climate, so it goes:


ByKIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
<time class="timestamp" style="margin: 0px 0px 4px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: 'Whitney SSm', sans-serif; display: block; line-height: 2.2rem; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); background: 0px 0px;">Dec. 10, 2015 7:08 p.m. ET</time>435 COMMENTS (http://www.wsj.com/articles/no-political-guardrails-1449792484#livefyre-comment)

Twenty-two years ago, my esteemed colleague Dan Henninger wrote a blockbuster Journal editorial (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122521124435776541) titled “No Guardrails.” Its subject was people “who don’t think that rules of personal or civil conduct apply to them,” as well as the elites who excuse this lack of self-control and the birth of a less-civilized culture.

We are today witnessing the political version of this phenomenon. That’s how to make sense of a presidential race that grows more disconnected from normality by the day.

Barack Obama (http://topics.wsj.com/person/O/Barack-Obama/4328) has done plenty of damage to the country, but perhaps the worst is his determined destruction of Washington’s guardrails. Mr. Obama wants what he wants. If ObamaCare is problematic, he unilaterally alters the law. If Congress won’t change the immigration system, he refuses to enforce it. If the nation won’t support laws to fight climate change, he creates one with regulation. If the Senate won’t confirm his nominees, he declares it in recess and installs them anyway. “As to limits, you set your own,” observed Dan in that editorial. This is our president’s motto.
Mr. Obama doesn’t need anyone to justify his actions, because he’s realized no one can stop him. He gets criticized, but at the same time his approach has seeped into the national conscience. It has set new norms. You see this in the ever-more-outrageous proposals from the presidential field, in particular front-runners Hillary Clinton (http://topics.wsj.com/person/C/Hillary-Clinton/6344) and Donald Trump (http://topics.wsj.com/person/T/Donald-Trump/159).

Mrs. Clinton routinely vows to govern by diktat. On Wednesday she unveiled a raft of proposals to punish companies that flee the punitive U.S. tax system. Mrs. Clinton will ask Congress to implement her plan, but no matter if it doesn’t. “If Congress won’t act,” she promises, “then I will ask the Treasury Department, when I’m there, to use its regulatory authority.”

Mrs. Clinton and fellow liberals don’t like guns and are frustrated that the duly elected members of Congress (including those from their own party) won’t strengthen background checks. So she has promised to write regulations that will unilaterally impose such a system.

On immigration, Mr. Obama ignored statute with executive actions to shield illegals from deportation. Mrs. Clinton brags that she will go much, much further with sweeping exemptions to immigration law.

For his part, Mr. Trump sent the nation into an uproar this week with his call to outright ban Muslims from entering the country. Is this legally or morally sound? Who cares! Mr. Trump specializes in disdain for the law, the Constitution, and any code of civilized conduct. Guardrails are for losers. He’d set up a database to track Muslims or force them to carry special IDs. He’d close mosques. He’d deport kids born on American soil. He’d seize Iraq’s oil fields. He’d seize remittance payments sent back to Mexico. He’d grab personal property for government use.

...


For that matter, is it any wonder that some Republicans are calling on the IRS to audit Mrs. Clinton’s foundation? When did conservatives go from wanting to abolish the IRS to wanting to use it against rivals? When did they turn their back on the institutional check of the filibuster? When Democrats busted through those rails, of course.

“No Guardrails” took aim at political and intellectual leaders who failed in their special duty to elevate institutions and rules. When those leaders go further, and openly break all the rules, there really is nothing left to restrain the political passions.

The more outrageous Mr. Trump is, the more his numbers soar. The more Mrs. Clinton promises to cram an agenda down the throats of her “enemies,” the more enthusiastic her base. The more unrestrained the idea, the more press coverage; the more ratings soar, the more unrestrained the idea. The humble candidates—those with big ideas, but with respect for order and honor—are lost to the shouting.

[gabosaurus]

I understand where the Trump supporters are coming from. They are passionate because Trump embraces the same extreme issues that they do. Trump is basically the far right version of Bernie Sanders. He tells people what they want to hear, without regard to whether his ideals are feasible.

Trump has one big problem. He is not a politician. His ideas play well to the fringe, but will not go over with the masses.
Mainstream voters want a security blanket. They want time tested platitudes. They want to be stroked and coddled.

GOP voters have a very difficult decision to make. They can follow their ideals and go with Trump or Carson. Or they can try to win the White House and go with Marco Rubio.
Trump has no chance of winning the general election. Hillary Clinton will bait him every chance she gets. Trump will toss out firebombs and grenades. Hillary will respond with teddy bears and cotton balls.

You want Hillary Clinton in the White House? Nominate Trump.

[Black Diamond]

He's probably cultivating his bean sprouts or some other sissy-ass vegetarian crap. However, last I heard, Jim, Jeff and their dad are off doing some dumbass redneck BS for the weekend.

Jim trying to get Jeff off the granola crap by killing Bambi??

[PixieStix]

I wonder where LongTermGuy has been :poke:

[Black Diamond]

Actually, no. It was just as divided in the 1820s and the 1850s. John Quincy Adams v Andrew Jackson was a war. And the Civil War was the Civil War. This country has always been divided between those that work for a living and those that think they are entitled. The bureaucracy that is DC, not one party or the other, keeps the divisiveness alive so we're always looking at the THEIR stupid stories instead of WHAT they are doing. SUcking off our tax dollars and living a comfortable life.

They like to pretend each stands for something different but it's a smokescreen. Unless someone wants to tell me how the Republicans were the lefties during the Civil War and the Dems the conservatives and they've jockeyed around so much they've reversed roles? Whatever story they can stick in the news to keep your eyes glued to it, keeps your eyes off them. All they care about is maintaining their paychecks and perks. And people keep putting them back in office.

Who divided us in the 1850s? Has any one person divided us to the degree Obama has? I mean ever?

[Kathianne]

The 1820's saw the Missouri Compromise which certainly signaled the awakening that was ongoing regarding that peculiar institution. By the 1850's it was undeniable that a clash was coming. I doubt there's anyway to shrug aside the times leading to a Civil War. To this day I don't know how the Union could survive and the institution of slavery have been ended without war.

Perhaps if it had been addressed at the Constitutional Convention, yet it is quite certain that war still would have arisen, though between two countries taking up the same space as what had become the US, since there would not have been one. Likely the boundaries of both Mexico and Canada would be different today if the war happened in early 1800's rather than mid-late?

[Black Diamond]

The 1820's saw the Missouri Compromise which certainly signaled the awakening that was ongoing regarding that peculiar institution. By the 1850's it was undeniable that a clash was coming. I doubt there's anyway to shrug aside the times leading to a Civil War. To this day I don't know how the Union could survive and the institution of slavery have been ended without war.

Perhaps if it had been addressed at the Constitutional Convention, yet it is quite certain that war still would have arisen, though between two countries taking up the same space as what had become the US, since there would not have been one. Likely the boundaries of both Mexico and Canada would be different today if the war happened in early 1800's rather than mid-late?

King cotton...

[Kathianne]

King cotton...

Yes and no. The cotton gin certainly led to the tendency of one crop and increase dependence on slavery, though the issue of abolition was one that would rise and fall from the forefront of contentions even before the Constitutional Convention.

[Black Diamond]

Yes and no. The cotton gin certainly led to the tendency of one crop and increase dependence on slavery, though the issue of abolition was one that would rise and fall from the forefront of contentions even before the Constitutional Convention.
Thomas Jefferson's nightmare?

[Kathianne]

Thomas Jefferson's nightmare?

http://abolition.nypl.org/essays/abolition/2/

http://abolition.nypl.org/essays/abolition/3/?__utma=10456805.111891484.1449996949.1449996949.1 449996949.1&__utmb=10456805.2.10.1449996949&__utmc=10456805&__utmx=-&__utmz=10456805.1449996949.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmcc n=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=(not%20provided)&__utmv=-&__utmk=127542157

[indago]

The 1820's saw the Missouri Compromise which certainly signaled the awakening that was ongoing regarding that peculiar institution. By the 1850's it was undeniable that a clash was coming. I doubt there's anyway to shrug aside the times leading to a Civil War. To this day I don't know how the Union could survive and the institution of slavery have been ended without war.

Perhaps if it had been addressed at the Constitutional Convention, yet it is quite certain that war still would have arisen, though between two countries taking up the same space as what had become the US, since there would not have been one. Likely the boundaries of both Mexico and Canada would be different today if the war happened in early 1800's rather than mid-late?

"Perhaps if it had been addressed at the Constitutional Convention..."

It was "addressed at the Constitutional Convention", slaves being recognized as property. Northern State Representatives decried the institution, while Southern State Representatives lauded it. It became evident that there would be no Constitution if there was anything in the Constitution that prohibited it.

[Kathianne]

"Perhaps if it had been addressed at the Constitutional Convention..."

It was "addressed at the Constitutional Convention", slaves being recognized as property. Northern State Representatives decried the institution, while Southern State Representatives lauded it. It became evident that there would be no Constitution if there was anything in the Constitution that prohibited it.

Point taken, though also speaking of before. That they saw this as a 'compromise' one has to understand just how far they had to go. Already though, some were passionate at the wrong. Certainly the South already was seeing it as a state issue-a demonstration of just how seriously the state issues were during the Convention. How far we've come from that.

[Gunny]

Well Trump, Carson, and Carly are supposed to be the antithesis of that. They are the anti-establishment.

I don't disagree. Problem is, the last anti-establishment President we had was Carter. Didn't work out so well. He an independent as Governor of GA, but ran as a Dem. He had only half-a$$ support in Congress.

It'll be no different with Trump, maybe worse. The GOP is biting their lip trying to just roll with it, but they won't support him. He's not playing by their rules. Carson, maybe. He's more the conservative type. And I like Carly. She's the only one attacking Hillary instead of playing into the self-destructive backbiting so far.

[Gunny]

After reading some threads, nothing disgusts me more than having to play peacemaker. That ain't my damned drill. Neither is running off because someone disagrees with my opinion. THAT is my damned game. But all this "I'm butt-hurt because you don't agree with me" crap is getting on my nerves. Grow the f*ck up and grow a pair.

Someone mentioned microcosm and how apropos. We ARE a microcosm of the GOP candidates. We're killing each other instead of the enemy. I'm voting for Jack in the Box if he's the not Democrat person. But this whiny ass divisiveness needs to stop. Minus the little bitches (non gender specific), we're friends. Or acquaintances. Or something like that. Turning on each other isn't going to change a damned thing.

And I don't like any of y'all any damned way. :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

After reading some threads, nothing disgusts me more than having to play peacemaker. That ain't my damned drill. Neither is running off because someone disagrees with my opinion. THAT is my damned game. But all this "I'm butt-hurt because you don't agree with me" crap is getting on my nerves. Grow the f*ck up and grow a pair.

Someone mentioned microcosm and how apropos. We ARE a microcosm of the GOP candidates. We're killing each other instead of the enemy. I'm voting for Jack in the Box if he's the not Democrat person. But this whiny ass divisiveness needs to stop. Minus the little bitches (non gender specific), we're friends. Or acquaintances. Or something like that. Turning on each other isn't going to change a damned thing.

And I don't like any of y'all any damned way. :laugh:
Pretty sure revs is voting third party

[LongTermGuy]

It is an election cycle, people get riled up. No one should take it personally. I hope he comes back. These things usually iron themselves out.

There is a lot at stake here, and it is understandable that people get upset.


Nicely said....

[LongTermGuy]

Jimmy said::laugh:

~ "we are cast members on <nobr style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">The Walking Dead (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#)" ~




.....at least we caint infect each other....were all already infected..


</nobr>https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M12db0d6314f53364ea3ef51811efa5f1o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=292&h=165

[sundaydriver]

Sorry to see one of my favorite posters leave, hope he returns. I like reading posts that have some critical thought put into them instead of the usual rhetoric and echoes in far too many posts.

[Gunny]

Sorry to see one of my favorite posters leave, hope he returns. I like reading posts that have some critical thought put into them instead of the usual rhetoric and echoes in far too many posts.

He'll probably be back. He's been around since forever. This kind of crap happens every 4 years. Especially with the right because they insist on 10M candidates and 10M debates that mean nothing.