Trump calls for Muslim border ban ...

[Drummond]

I don't care what any report says. There is not 300 million radical (harmful) muslims in the world.

I must ask: How do you know this ?

On 10th September 2001, America was not alerted to any threat from Al Qaeda, YET, one existed. The following day, that threat materialised ... and 3,000 people lost their lives.

At that time, Al Qaeda had terrorist training camps being run across a substantial proportion of Taliban-held territory in Afghanistan. Awareness of them, much less action taken AGAINST them, was nonexistent in the minds of most Americans before 11th September.

I suggest to you that the same sort of reality is true today. You'll only be sure of the extent of threat against you, once it's materialised and become provable fact. But by then, and certainly if you ostrich-posturing Lefties have your way, it'll BE TOO LATE.

Trump is sounding a reasonable note of caution, BEFORE such a threat materialises, rather than AFTERWARDS. He proposes immediate precautionary action. And, heyy, how the Left hate him for it .....


At least we need a solid definition of radical.

Does that definition include the PC imperative 'ignore it, &/or redefine it, to the maximum extent possible' .. ??


I spent 4 months traveling the ME and never came across any harm or anti US talk.

... perhaps so .. ?

[Gunny]

I have a bible in my bookshelf, along with a quran and other holy books for reference.

Uh huh. Having books and understanding their meanings are two different things. Educated idiots are still just idiots.

For instance, you know absolutely NOTHING about me; yet, this is the second thread you've assumed a bunch of dumb crap. I bet you don't even know what a "Gunny" is.

It's REALLY easy to assume about you that when your ass is getting handed to you, you run like a bitch. Typical leftwingnut. Act just like your President. Talk all over the place, never address the issue at hand and say nothing.

[pete311]

I must ask: How do you know this ?

I don't know, but I traveled all over the ME including Syria (late 2010) and Iraq (late 2012) not once ever got anything but good hospitality. Maybe I was just very lucky not to run into one of the 300 million.

[pete311]

Educated idiots are still just idiots.


This is wrong by definition. Consider other threads you have a real problem with making your own definitions.

[Drummond]

It's not dishonest. It clearly states it's for 2015. If you want a map for 5 years, make that map. If you want a map for 10 years, make the map. So you're saying a map has to fit your agenda in order to not be dishonest. Nice!

Why was a map with such a conveniently limited timeframe offered in the first place ?

[pete311]

Why was a map with such a conveniently limited timeframe offered in the first place ?

If that map was for 15 years which is what you want the entire map would be solid blue. how is that helpful?

[Gunny]

This is wrong by definition. Consider other threads you have a real problem with making your own definitions.

No it isn't. All the book-learning in the world can't make someone with no common sense or logic smarter than they were from the start. Only problem I seem to be having is someone who doesn't know jack shit about what he's talking about.

And apparently you didn't get the Gulf War "tour". Probably flew over, and stayed in a hotel on some business trip. My "hotel" was a two-man hooch and my sleeping partners were an M-40A1 and a M-9 Beretta.

And educated idiot is someone that thinks reading a book means you know more than the people that have been there.

[jimnyc]

If that map was for 15 years which is what you want the entire map would be solid blue. how is that helpful?

With ONE HUGE FUCKING RED ONE where 9/11 would be, which would total as much as ALL of the others in 15 years, if not more. Then add in Cali, Fort Hood and the tons of attacks stopped, and then add in the shitload arrested before they could even get off the ground.

[Drummond]

I don't know, but I traveled all over the ME including Syria (late 2010) and Iraq (late 2012) not once ever got anything but good hospitality. Maybe I was just very lucky not to run into one of the 300 million.

If you DON'T KNOW, then ... you DON'T KNOW. Simple.

Perhaps you cherrypicked your locations, that cherrypicking meaning that you were more likely to be dealing with 'friendly' people than otherwise ? Or, maybe you were dealing with people who hid their hatreds in order to gain something from you ?

Or, maybe the truth of how they felt WAS discernible, but, like a good Leftie, you only perceived that which you found it convenient to perceive ?

I don't know ... I wasn't there. But what I do know is that Lefties work very hard to keep alertness to threats at bay. Trump sounded a note of caution. He proposed a temporary measure which allowed for a period of review and investigation. BUT, you Lefties want NO such thing to happen, and you want NO precautionary measure to be undertaken. Better that we remain asleep to dangers, rather than alert to their possibility .. eh ?

[pete311]

And apparently you didn't get the Gulf War "tour". Probably flew over, and stayed in a hotel on some business trip. My "hotel" was a two-man hooch and my sleeping partners were an M-40A1 and a M-9 Beretta.

And educated idiot is someone that thinks reading a book means you know more than the people that have been there.

Ah another of your own definitions.

No I was not a solider. You can appreciate your perspective was very different than mine which was walking along with the average civilian through their markets and being welcomed into homes for dinner etc. I was backpacking btw.

[PixieStix]

So up to 25% of them are radicalized, but 99.9% of them are harmless?

Lay off the Peyote Petey!

:rofl1:

[Drummond]

If that map was for 15 years which is what you want the entire map would be solid blue. how is that helpful?

Isn't this revisionism taken to ludicrous extremes ? 9/11, Pete, actually DID happen. I suggest you show its victims a little more respect !

But my question stands ... why was a map covering such a limited span of time ever offered ?

[pete311]

With ONE HUGE FUCKING RED ONE where 9/11 would be, which would total as much as ALL of the others in 15 years, if not more. Then add in Cali, Fort Hood and the tons of attacks stopped, and then add in the shitload arrested before they could even get off the ground.

Yes adding an event from 15+ years ago would better fit your agenda. In the end the numbers would still not matter adding in all mass shootings from 15+ years ago would still make muslim incidents pale in comparison.

[pete311]

Isn't this revisionism taken to ludicrous extremes ? 9/11, Pete, actually DID happen.

But my question stands ... why was a map covering such a limited span of time ever offered ?

The timescale does not meet your agenda, I get it. yes I am aware 9/11 happened... and your point being?

[Gunny]

If you DON'T KNOW, then ... you DON'T KNOW. Simple.

Perhaps you cherrypicked your locations, that cherrypicking meaning that you were more likely to be dealing with 'friendly' people than otherwise ? Or, maybe you were dealing with people who hid their hatreds in order to gain something from you ?

Or, maybe the truth of how they felt WAS discernible, but, like a good Leftie, you only perceived that which you found it convenient to perceive ?

I don't know ... I wasn't there. But what I do know is that Lefties work very hard to keep alertness to threats at bay. Trump sounded a note of caution. He proposed a temporary measure which allowed for a period of review and investigation. BUT, you Lefties want NO such thing to happen, and you want NO precautionary measure to be undertaken. Better that we remain asleep to dangers, rather than alert to their possibility .. eh ?

You don't have to "be there" to see. If I had the money, I could easily tour the Middle East without a hitch. But that isn't the real world they live in. Business is business and it's all a front. The little guys with only one set of clothes don't ever see THAT world. Their escape is to run to AQ and ISIS or Hamas. I DO agree they need opportunity. At the same time, actions speak louder than words and if they're killing people, they need to be stopped.

Obama's a fool for pulling out our troops and it just proves how stupid he is and unqualified for being CinC. You don't declare victory and change the minds of centuries old beliefs. And they need to keep those centuries old beliefs right where they are.

They aren't going to stop. They've been at this since the 7th century and STILL haven't just shut up and sat down. They're either going to be stopped, or we're going to lose. And f*ckwits like Obama giving away the keys to the kingdom aren't helping anyone but them.

[Drummond]

Ah another of your own definitions.

No I was not a solider. You can appreciate your perspective was very different than mine which was walking along with the average civilian through their markets and being welcomed into homes for dinner etc. I was backpacking btw.

Question: how many of those beheaded by Jihadi John were military people ? How many of ISIS's captives were from the military ?

And I've other questions: could it be that you were treated as you were, because you voiced opinions to the people around you that were critical of American policies ? Did you perhaps seem to them to be anti-Western in your outlook ?

Perhaps they were aware of the apologist nature of Lefties, and considered it - and you - exploitable ?

[LATE EDIT: ... Gunny has a point. You were 'good business' to them, so you were eminently exploitable for that reason alone.]

[pete311]

Obama's a fool for pulling out our troops and it just proves how stupid he is and unqualified for being CinC. You don't declare victory and change the minds of centuries old beliefs. And they need to keep those centuries old beliefs right where they are.

They aren't going to stop. They've been at this since the 7th century and STILL haven't just shut up and sat down. They're either going to be stopped, or we're going to lose. And f*ckwits like Obama giving away the keys to the kingdom aren't helping anyone but them.

Never should have been there in the first place. Afghanistan was our war, not Iraq. Can't have troops there indefinitely. That is called occupation.

[pete311]

Question: how many of those beheaded by Jihadi John were military people ? How many of ISIS's captives were from the military ?

And I've other questions: could it be that you were treated as you were, because you voiced opinions to the people around you that were critical of American policies ? Did you perhaps seem to them to be anti-Western in your outlook ?

Perhaps they were aware of the apologist nature of Lefties ?

Few if any, what is your point?

Never talked politics, that is travel rule #1.

[fj1200]

Just a note of correction, Iranians ARE muslims. While many differences between the sunni and shia, both still muslims.

Where's the correction? I was pointing out the functional difference. Most Iranians are Muslim but most Muslims are not Iranian.


True, Carter banned the citizens of a specific country. But he also targeted students and mandated that 50,000 of them report to immigration offices. In all 15,000 Iranians were forced to leave the US.

Would he be called a racist and fear monger er today????? I believe so.

Exactly.


... trolling.

I'm pretty sure you don't know the definition. Below is an example from which you should learn:


... Thatcherite ... Thatcherite ... Thatcherites ... Thatcherite ...

[Gunny]

Never should have been there in the first place. Afghanistan was our war, not Iraq. Can't have troops there indefinitely. That is called occupation.

So that justifies your argument? We should have never been there? Fact is, we WERE there, like it or not. And occupation is the only successful strategy that has ever worked.

[pete311]

So that justifies your argument? We should have never been there? Fact is, we WERE there, like it or not. And occupation is the only successful strategy that has ever worked.

A fact you guys love to gloss over. All obama's fault, Bush is squeaky clean because he's your guy. I really don't know, but please tell me when occupation has worked? I gtg to lunch cya later

[fj1200]

As I said, it's a dishonest map, with an obviously cherry-picked timeline. To ignore those three bombings makes the argument silly.

How is it a dishonest map? It shows what it shows. Take a map covering 10 years and you see more bubbles of both kinds.

[jimnyc]

Where's the correction? I was pointing out the functional difference. Most Iranians are Muslim but most Muslims are not Iranian.

Cool then, but as written it sounded like you were stating Iranians weren't muslims. Or my reading error. Either way, go F yourself! :laugh:

[jimnyc]

A fact you guys love to gloss over. All obama's fault, Bush is squeaky clean because he's your guy. I really don't know, but please tell me when occupation has worked? I gtg to lunch cya later

I've heard "Bush" for like 8 years now, and now you guys want to act like its the other way around? Liberal beanheads want people to believe that Bush causes tornados and eats babies.

I hope you choke on your lunch. Don't worry, someone will give you the damn heimlich! <---- in case anyone thought I was heartless. :)

[Drummond]

Never should have been there in the first place. Afghanistan was our war, not Iraq. Can't have troops there indefinitely. That is called occupation.

Understood. Saddam should've never have been accountable for WMD's ... and his just ignoring UN Resolution 1441 was 'the way to go' ...

Saddam was never a friend of terrorists ? NO dodgy deals ever done, or considered ? NO sheltering of Zarqawi, Al Qaeda's chief operative in the region ? NO bankrolling of Hamas .. ?

You, Pete, argue for greater 'internationalism' .. don't you ? So, explain to me how it is that, suddenly, internationalism is eminently ignorable, when expressed in the form of a UN Resolution ? Because, otherwise ... you'd need to accept that action in defence of its Resolutions IS reasonable, and called for.

So, the 2003 invasion happened, because it HAD to happen.

You seem to be unhappy about what you call the 'occupation' of Iraq. Well ... we see what happened when troops were withdrawn. ISIS emerged !! Pete, if the current terrorist threat has any 'Iraq' cause to it, it's because what you call an 'occupation' ended prematurely !!! Obama gave terrorists an outrageous length of time to prepare for his much publicised troop withdrawal, and the result is as we now see it.

It's Leftie interference in the War on Terror that's done so much to make the world, today, a LESS safe place.

[fj1200]

Cool then, but as written it sounded like you were stating Iranians weren't muslims. Or my reading error. Either way, go F yourself! :laugh:

:martian:

[Gunny]

Let me see if amazon has a "1st grade" dictionary...

Why? Need to bone up on your rhetoric?

[Gunny]

I've heard "Bush" for like 8 years now, and now you guys want to act like its the other way around? Liberal beanheads want people to believe that Bush causes tornados and eats babies.

I hope you choke on your lunch. Don't worry, someone will give you the damn heimlich! <---- in case anyone thought I was heartless. :)

Get your sh*t straight. Bush's hurricane machine created Katrina. :laugh:

[PixieStix]

I've heard "Bush" for like 8 years now, and now you guys want to act like its the other way around? Liberal beanheads want people to believe that Bush causes tornados and eats babies.

I hope you choke on your lunch. Don't worry, someone will give you the damn heimlich! <---- in case anyone thought I was heartless. :)

And it will probably be a conservative :coffee:

[Drummond]

How is it a dishonest map? It shows what it shows. Take a map covering 10 years and you see more bubbles of both kinds.

Curious. You've set the limit to TEN years ?

Tell me, FJ, why is that Lefties such as you and Pete are so determined to ignore the year 2001 ? Did, perchance, anything happen that year that Lefties would like to consider at all relevant ? H'mm ?

Did it ever occur to you & your comrades that revisionism can be taken a tad too far ?

[jimnyc]

Get your sh*t straight. Bush's hurricane machine created Katrina. :laugh:

Of course, because he hates black people! Kanye West told me so.

[fj1200]

Curious. You've set the limit to TEN years ?

It's not my map. Create your own and post it. I don't particularly care either way.

[Drummond]

It's not my map. Create your own and post it. I don't particularly care either way.

No, not your map. Just your comment. And you cared enough to follow a Leftie lead that had you continue with ignoring a highly significant year.

Do you need a map to tell you what, of significance, happened in the year 2001 ?

[fj1200]

No, not your map. Just your comment. And you cared enough to follow a Leftie lead that had you continue with ignoring a highly significant year.

Do you need a map to tell you what, of significance, happened in the year 2001 ?

:laugh: Of course I don't need a map. I don't need to find excuses to be offended either. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Of course, because he hates black people! Kanye West told me so.

Kanye was late. It was that idiot president from Venezuela that started the "Bush hurricane machine" crap. Hell I want him to run again if he can control the weather. Maybe he could fix climate change. :laugh:

[revelarts]

@gabosaurus (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=111)

This is for you. Any way you cut it. It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you.

[video=youtube;Ry3NzkAOo3s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s[-video]


Here we go ...AGAIN. Islamaphobia? Phobia is FEAR. People like you are as bad as the MSM with your sensationalizing things and giving them an incorrect definition.
How about it is common sense and logic to not let poisonous snakes live in your house? I'm not afraid of them but I'm not going to invite them in to kill me.
---.
pixie's word not mine. talk to her.

[PixieStix]

pixie's word not mine. talk to her.
:lame2:
Don't blame me for your posts. You are the one who said I was islamaphobic. Your words not mine

[NightTrain]

I don't care what any report says. There is not 300 million radical (harmful) muslims in the world. At least we need a solid definition of radical. I spent 4 months traveling the ME and never came across any harm or anti US talk.


You traveled the ME backpacking for 2 months in late 2010 and 2 months in late 2012?

With nary a concern?

I find that hard to believe.

[Gunny]

pixie's word not mine. talk to her.

There's that stupid word again.. I got news for YOU, bubba, you're arguing with the wrong Pixie. Ain't a whole bunch going to scare her and it damned sure ain't going to be some raghead. So "phobia" is out. Need to find a better word. Constitutionalist comes to mind.

What good are our laws if we don't live by them? The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact.

[Gunny]

You traveled the ME backpacking for 2 months in late 2010 and 2 months in late 2012?

With nary a concern?

I find that hard to believe.

So now there's a special part of the ME for Pete? Some dumb white boy tromping across the desert and no one notices? These idiots will kill you for being on their damned sand dune.

[NightTrain]

So now there's a special part of the ME for Pete? Some dumb white boy tromping across the desert and no one notices? These idiots will kill you for being on their damned sand dune.


Homie is thinking Petey likes to tell tall tales. :smoke:

[Black Diamond]

You traveled the ME backpacking for 2 months in late 2010 and 2 months in late 2012?

With nary a concern?

I find that hard to believe.
He had his head up a camel's ass for two months. That's the real truth and it explains a lot.

[NightTrain]

He had his head up a camel's ass for two months. That's the real truth and it explains a lot.


A Camel Rectum Tour at the local zoo would be a bit more his speed.

[Gunny]

Homie is thinking Petey likes to tell tall tales. :smoke:

Honestly I've been sitting here racking my brain trying to figure out where he could go over there for 2 months and think it's cool. That entire place sucks from Egypt to Afghanistan. So my first question would be "Why?" I used to get all-expense-paid vacations to that kitty litter box. And I had a backpack too. About 140 pounds worth.

WHO in their right mind would go there for fun? Sure. My idea of "fun" ... 5 months on a ship and 30 days in Kuwait where I got to hump all my gear in the sand. Then the ex wants to go on a fucking cruise the day after I get off that damned boat.

These people slay me. I spend half my career trying to stay away from that place and they want to claim they went there for fun? I already thought he was dumb but he's working this one to the hilt.

[NightTrain]

Honestly I've been sitting here racking my brain trying to figure out where he could go over there for 2 months and think it's cool. That entire place sucks from Egypt to Afghanistan. So my first question would be "Why?" I used to get all-expense-paid vacations to that kitty litter box. And I had a backpack too. About 140 pounds worth.

WHO in their right mind would go there for fun? Sure. My idea of "fun" ... 5 months on a ship and 30 days in Kuwait where I got to hump all my gear in the sand. Then the ex wants to go on a fucking cruise the day after I get off that damned boat.

These people slay me. I spend half my career trying to stay away from that place and they want to claim they went there for fun? I already thought he was dumb but he's working this one to the hilt.


Yeah, he wouldn't be saying that incredibly naive bullshit if he'd actually gone over there "backpacking" for 2 months at a whack. Twice. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Yeah, he wouldn't be saying that incredibly naive bullshit if he'd actually gone over there "backpacking" for 2 months at a whack. Twice. :laugh:

Don't leave out the MOPP 2 gear. Anti biological and chemical. Airtight in the desert. That goes with the 20 lb flak jacket, ammo and 140 pound ALICE pack. And you're humping a weapon.

And wasn't 2010/11 prior to O-blah-blah tossing up his French white hanky and declaring victory?

[NightTrain]

Don't leave out the MOPP 2 gear. Anti biological and chemical. Airtight in the desert. That goes with the 20 lb flak jacket, ammo and 140 pound ALICE pack. And you're humping a weapon.

And wasn't 2010/11 prior to O-blah-blah tossing up his French white hanky and declaring victory?


I think that was Pre-JV status. Back when they were dangerous, roger.

[Gunny]

I think that was Pre-JV status. Back when they were dangerous, roger.

Well, if Petey wanted to clear this up, I've been in every country in the Middle East except Egypt. He could just point out where he was if he was of a mind to and we could go from there. He might as well get his African excursion out of the way too. Been in more than 2 of those countries as well.

[Black Diamond]

I think that was Pre-JV status. Back when they were dangerous, roger.

Oh so they were once referred to as the freshman team? :cool:

[Gunny]

Oh so they were once referred to as the freshman team? :cool:

You know how easy it is to kill these f*cks if you engage them in combat? They're stupid and tactically inept. They're winning THEIR war because we are letting them. Because some dipstick wants to underrate them. Obama's our enemy as much if not more than these damned ragheads are.

[Black Diamond]

You know how easy it is to kill these f*cks if you engage them in combat? They're stupid and tactically inept. They're winning THEIR war because we are letting them. Because some dipstick wants to underrate them. Obama's our enemy as much if not more than these damned ragheads are.

:clap:

[pete311]

You traveled the ME backpacking for 2 months in late 2010 and 2 months in late 2012?

With nary a concern?

I find that hard to believe.

No I was based in Damascus for about 4 weeks and Erbil/Sulaymaniyah for about 3 weeks. The rest was spent in other ME countries. Of course you take precaution just like travel anywhere else.


Well, if Petey wanted to clear this up, I've been in every country in the Middle East except Egypt. He could just point out where he was if he was of a mind to and we could go from there. He might as well get his African excursion out of the way too. Been in more than 2 of those countries as well.

Clear what up?


You know how easy it is to kill these f*cks if you engage them in combat? They're stupid and tactically inept. They're winning THEIR war because we are letting them. Because some dipstick wants to underrate them. Obama's our enemy as much if not more than these damned ragheads are.
We had 10+ years to win and we didn't. Learned nothing from Vietnam.

[fj1200]

WHO in their right mind would go there for fun?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/LWDtitle.jpg (http://longwayround.com/journeys_long-way-down.htm)

[pete311]

WHO in their right mind would go there for fun? Sure. My idea of "fun"

There are immensely interesting historical and cultural sites. The best roman ruins are not in Italy but in the ME and north Africa.

[Gunny]

No I was based in Damascus for about 4 weeks and Erbil for about 3 weeks. The rest was spent in other ME countries. Of course you take precaution just like travel anywhere else.



Clear what up?


We had 10+ years to win and we didn't. Learned nothing from Vietnam.

Really? Only precaution I need to take between here and San Antonio is making sure I know where to get gas.

"Clear what up " is a deflection and becoming quite obvious that you won't answer a straight question with a straight answer. Been to Damascus have you? Got a reason? Or is it just okay to blow up 299 service people? But you'll tool right on over and your money on THEIR economy.

And WHY didn't we learn from Vietnam? Your politicians that can't even call terrorists terrorists. I don't see anyone on the right not calling them terrorists. But I DO see the jackasses that turned Vietnam into a debacle doing it. Y'all seem to all be on the left. Wonder how THAT works?

[pete311]

Really? Only precaution I need to take between here and San Antonio is making sure I know where to get gas.

"Clear what up " is a deflection and becoming quite obvious that you won't answer a straight question with a straight answer. Been to Damascus have you? Got a reason? Or is it just okay to blow up 299 service people? But you'll tool right on over and your money on THEIR economy.

And WHY didn't we learn from Vietnam? Your politicians that can't even call terrorists terrorists. I don't see anyone on the right not calling them terrorists. But I DO see the jackasses that turned Vietnam into a debacle doing it. Y'all seem to all be on the left. Wonder how THAT works?

Yes...?

What question?

umm... tourism... duh

No, Vietnam we should learned that you can't win a distant civilian/insurgent guerrilla war with force.

[NightTrain]

No I was based in Damascus for about 4 weeks and Erbil/Sulaymaniyah for about 3 weeks. The rest was spent in other ME countries. Of course you take precaution just like travel anywhere else.


So, you were in the ME in November / December 2010 and November / December 2012?

[pete311]

So, you were in the ME in November / December 2010 and November / December 2012?

Looking at my photos it was May for Syria and Nov/Dec for Iraq.

[Gunny]

Yes...?

What question?

umm... tourism... duh

No, Vietnam we should learned that you can't win a distant civilian/insurgent guerrilla war with force.

Tourism. Guess I was a tourist too. :rolleyes:

I understand learning from history very well and can school your ass on it if you like. Difference is, I can see what is and has to be dealt with vs blaming others for not learning from the past. We have a problem NOW, not 40 years ago. All you want to do is cast blame. How about fixing the damned problem? THEN you can worry about who's to blame. I can tell you everything wrong with every war we ever fought and it doesn't change HERE AND NOW.

I wonder though why you people don't think beyond yourselves. It's always about you. You got your Bible right next to your Koran, right? Try John 15:13. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." All y'all care about is yourselves. There's no greater good and no destroying a virus with you. You spend all your time making excuse for the virus.

These people want to destroy us. And you want to let them in.

[pete311]

I understand learning from history very well and can school your ass on it if you like.


The problem at hand is that your have some weird alpha male machismo problem.

[Elessar]

You are afraid to be killed by muslims. That is a phobia.

How about you get off your ass and stop the 13,000 annual gun deaths in our own country?

Your argument is hollow.

Control the criminal first, but spoon-pounding
Liberals do not want that. They want to control
an object without a mind rather than a person.

[Elessar]

Some of them think the same against you. Makes you no better. Only ends in mutual destruction.

Can't fight? haha yeah... mission accomplished right? The mighty USA can't win a war in 14 years against some towel heads.

Then why don't you enlist and make a difference, big mouth?

I can already answer that question...

You're an internet tough guy , but pansy-ass in RL.

[pete311]

Then why don't you enlist and make a difference, big mouth?

I can already answer that question...

You're an internet tough guy , but pansy-ass in RL.

This war can't be won with pure military

[Elessar]

This war can't be won with pure military

Suggest another method.

Appeasement is off the table already.

You Libs want capitulation...Not gonna happen.

[Abbey Marie]

If I had the tech skills, I'd draw and post a map showing the total number of Nazi killings in Europe between 1946-1960. You know, to support my argument that they weren't really a threat, and you're all Nazi-phobes.

[pete311]

Suggest another method.

Appeasement is off the table already.

You Libs want capitulation...Not gonna happen.

Methods, not method.

I suppose if you want pure military you're going to need 300k-500k troops for long term occupation and there will be many lives lost. I'd rather keep with the limited military and focus on diplomacy and letting the neighboring countries figure it out.

[pete311]

If I had the tech skills, I'd draw and post a map showing the total number of Nazi killings in Europe between 1946-1960. You know, to support my argument that they weren't really a threat, and you're all Nazi-phobes.

So, you would be in support of executing all Germans turning that time and banning jews from entering the country? No one is saying ISIS is not a threat.

[Elessar]

Methods, not method.

I suppose if you want pure military you're going to need 300k-500k troops for long term occupation and there will be many lives lost. I'd rather keep with the limited military and focus on diplomacy and letting the neighboring countries figure it out.

My cat has more common sense than you.

Diplomacy has not worked, even with that false war hero Kerry leading it.
It is capitulation, plain and simple and Obama leads it.

Neighboring countries need the help from NATO and the UN.

And you did not answer my question why you will not get off your
pansy-ass, enlist, and try to make a difference rather than
sit in a chat room and preach your idealistic Liberal drivel.

[pete311]

My cat has more common sense than you.

Diplomacy has not worked, even with that false war hero Kerry leading it.
It is capitulation, plain and simple and Obama leads it.

Neighboring countries need the help from NATO and the UN.

And you did not answer my question why you will not get off your
pansy-ass, enlist, and try to make a difference rather than
sit in a chat room and preach your idealistic Liberal drivel.

Cool, lets go back in full force again for 15 years. Ready?

[Elessar]

So, you would be in support of executing all Germans turning that time and banning jews from entering the country? No one is saying ISIS is not a threat.

YOU are the only one saying anything about executing.

Get with the program, Slick.

[Elessar]

Cool, lets go back in full force again for 15 years. Ready?

I'll walk you into a recruiting office then and
try to prove yourself..

Figure you would not make it past week 4 though
in basic training.

[Gunny]

Methods, not method.

I suppose if you want pure military you're going to need 300k-500k troops for long term occupation and there will be many lives lost. I'd rather keep with the limited military and focus on diplomacy and letting the neighboring countries figure it out.

Guess what. Military force works. If you use it.

[pete311]

I'll walk you into a recruiting office then and
try to prove yourself..

Figure you would not make it past week 4 though
in basic training.

Why do you keep on with this. I don't want to go to war.

[pete311]

Guess what. Military force works. If you use it.

Exactly what were we doing for 14 years?

[Elessar]

Why do you keep on with this. I don't want to go to war.

Because you keep preaching your cowardly Liberal ethics on others.

Go over there with your backpack and be a diplomat then.

Those animals will carve you up unless you assimilate,
and that is exactly what they are trying to do globally.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Methods, not method.

I suppose if you want pure military you're going to need 300k-500k troops for long term occupation and there will be many lives lost. I'd rather keep with the limited military and focus on diplomacy and letting the neighboring countries figure it out.
Diplomacy is now another word for cowardly appeasement pedro!
It just sounds better to say -" hey lets just kiss their asses and beg them not to hurt us"!
And that is exactlyhow its played by dems/libs and the corrupt , treasonous obama regime.
The damn Iran give-away sweepstakes obama just played on this nation proves it?
He gave everything and then some to them --got not a damn thing in return.--Tyr

[pete311]

Those animals will carve you up unless you assimilate,
and that is exactly what they are trying to do globally.

Are you talking about ISIS or muslims in general?

[pete311]

Diplomacy is now another word for cowardly appeasement pedro!

Someone answer me what were we doing for 13 years?

[pete311]

There likely won't be peace in the mideast unless the saudis and Iranians figure it their issues. until then the syrian/iraq mess is mostly a proxy war between them. Going in an killing ISIS doesn't stop them. The biggest funding for terrorism is Saudi Arabia.

[Abbey Marie]

So, you would be in support of executing all Germans turning that time and banning jews from entering the country? No one is saying ISIS is not a threat.


That doesn't make sense as an analogy, and I never said I wanted all Muslims executed.

[revelarts]

just for clarity here
@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) @PixieStix (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3344)

POST#153

atgabosaurus
This is for you. Any way you cut it. It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

THAT was the 1st time Islamophobia is mentioned in this thread.
"It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you."

this is saying that fear of Islam is justified because they ARE trying to kill us.
I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. That's what the the words mean.
if that's not what you meant pixie then you should have used different words.


POST#169

...Well the point she made was that there ARE over 1 billion peaceful muslims... but there are millions "radicalized". If you want to use that as a cover for some personal "Islamophobia" I guess no one can stop you.
But i would like to comment on the way she argued here. I get it. It's not all bad...
But there are serious flaws in it....
here's the thing
1st people on the left and right don't use the that argument format consistently. the speaker in the video said in reply to the muslim woman's comment on peaceful muslims.....
so basically her argument has problems.
1. she fails to narrow the focus down to the problem elements within a larger group --targeting NAZIs instead of "Germans".--
2. she fails to acknowledge the strength and allies for good in the majority of any large group.


Post#180

Since her argument was posted as GOOD REASONS for generic Islamophobia (in the form of a video) it seems someone should critique it right?...
.....

Post#191

Here we go ...AGAIN. Islamaphobia? Phobia is FEAR. People like you are as bad as the MSM with your sensationalizing things and giving them an incorrect definition.
....

Post#269

pixie's word not mine. talk to her.

Post#270


Don't blame me for your posts. You are the one who said I was islamaphobic. Your words not mine
What? Please look at YOUR post #153. YOUR WORD. I just repeated it and addressed it.
own it folks.

Post#289

There's that stupid word again.. I got news for YOU, bubba, you're arguing with the wrong Pixie. Ain't a whole bunch going to scare her and it damned sure ain't going to be some raghead. So "phobia" is out. Need to find a better word. Constitutionalist comes to mind.
What good are our laws if we don't live by them? The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact.

Be clear Gunny who posted "that stupid word" 1st? go to source buddy.

and let me get this strait, Pixie is a constitutionalist except where she feels "Islam" threatens her. Then at that point the constitution doesn't apply anymore because she and you believe you'll DIE if it's lived by?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

just for clarity here
@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) @PixieStix (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3344)

POST#153


THAT was the 1st time Islamophobia is mentioned in this thread.
"It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you."

this is saying that fear of Islam is justified because they ARE trying to kill us.
I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. That's what the the words mean.
if that's not what you meant pixie then you should have used different words.


POST#169



Post#180


Post#191


Post#269


Post#270

What? Please look at YOUR post #153. YOUR WORD. I just repeated it and addressed it.
own it folks.

Post#289


Be clear Gunny who posted "that stupid word" 1st? go to source buddy.

and let me get this strait, Pixie is a constitutionalist except where she feels "Islam" threatens her. Then at that point the constitution doesn't apply anymore because she and you believe you'll DIE if it's lived by?

Wrong. Those shitting on the Constitution are those demanding that we kiss muslim ass(kiss ass of those sworn by their faith to destroy it) and let them slowly take over and install Sharia law here. And no they do not say it that way but listening to and adhering to what they want us to do and how they want us to act would result in that being the damn , miserable reality!
That you fail to see that deep, that far and that truth is not my problem.
That you defend Islam either without knowing its agenda and commanded goals or else refusing to admit said
murdering goals and enslavement commanded in their holy book tells me that a major problem rests either in your head or your heart--or even both.
Still not my problem.
However, since you are no damn dummy--why the hell don't you read what they are commanded to do?
And are doing now, and will never stopped unless violently defeated-- As happened when they faced off against
Charles Martel--read history !!
Had he not utterly defeated the bastards, we'd never had an America! -Tyr

[revelarts]

If I had the tech skills, I'd draw and post a map showing the total number of Nazi killings in Europe between 1946-1960. You know, to support my argument that they weren't really a threat, and you're all Nazi-phobes.

Um well after 1945 they were't the kind of threat they were before. were they?

For one thing they were not in control of a STATE, or state army, navy and air force, not in possession of millions of tons of weapons. And their leader was dead.

But "fear" of Nazis and Nazism in general is legit. But the threat today from them is different and FAR LESS. thats reality.
Anyone afraid at 1940 level is not being rational right?

But I think some real concern and maybe even fear of islam is justified as well. (though i don't think we should be fearful in general of much of anything)
but not the wet your pants shun, ban, spy kill kill KILL because ---All of islam is going to destroy us all, our way of life, because LOOK Mohamed said so, look at their book SEEEE!.... they ALL are in on it... can't you seeee you fool you fools? --- kind of fear or concern.

the fear (anger-cough-) in the U.S. is overhyped as is made clear in the stats in various threads. But like the FEAR of flying, for some people rational info on safety stats is not enough to convince.

Are there dangers in flying yes absolutely. And it's MORE dangerous in small planes and in bad whether. But if your on a large commercial plane in the U.S. then your safer than nearly ALL other types of travel.
But the facts are small comfort after after watching airline crash videos all day long for a few weeks. And having "big brother" tell you that you're gonna die if you don't give him all your candy and do what he says.

[revelarts]

Wrong. Those shitting on the Constitution are those demanding that we kiss muslim ass(kiss ass of those sworn by their faith to destroy it) and let them slowly take over and install Sharia law here. And no they do not say it that way but listening to and adhering to what they want us to do and how they want us to act would result in that being the damn , miserable reality!
That you fail to see that deep, that far and that truth is not my problem.
That you defend Islam either without knowing its agenda and commanded goals or else refusing to admit said
murdering goals and enslavement commanded in their holy book tells me that a major problem rests either in your head or your heart--or even both.
Still not my problem.
However, since you are no damn dummy--why the hell don't you read what they are commanded to do?
And are doing now, and will never stopped unless violently defeated-- As happened when they faced off against
Charles Martel--read history !!
Had he not utterly defeated the bastards, we'd never had an America! -Tyr

so what should we do about Saudi Arabia Tyr?
you see everything deep and clear.

Our leaders here kiss and bow the Saudi leadership, do business with them, we drive our cars with their muslim gas.
we had an air base on their soil that they made us leave. They are called partners. BUT the WORSE head chopping brand of Islam is pumped out of their soil. not Iran, or Syria. Saudis are free to come and go. the bin laden family got special privileges even.

Is trump going to do anything about the Saud's or are they somehow livable.

Look I know what Some Muslims ASPIRATIONS are. There Aspirations are not where i want to place my level of concern. i place mine at the level of their operational powers.
Hitler wanted a 1000 year Riech too. didn't happen... even with all the war bent modern germany state power, and axis powers behind him.
the Muslims have been trying to build this Caliphate ever since Mohammed showed up. Haven't made it past Spain since the middle ages.
So Tyr why are you so concerned about the Caliphate and the koran now?

And if we hadn't Helped the Taliban against Russia, removed Saddam and Khaddiffi and hadn't shook Bahirs reign by aiding Saudi-AQ-Alnusra-ISIS "rebellion" there be LESS jihaist islam and more peaceful contolled by dictators Islam .
Our big military actions have made things worse.

As far as Islam taking over the U.S. one day maybe.
OK look for one thing it's hard to keep track of who's taking over the country this week and who we need to fight for dear life with.

One Day it's the Mexicans and other south americans illegals "taking over the country"
the next week it's us Blacks
the next week it's Islam
next week it's the demoncrats
next it's the Canadains
A few years back communism was going to gooble us up any day now.

Some of which of course merit some real concern But IMO Not the level of concern you make it out to be.
It's a matter of degrees and approach Tyr.

I don't think we need to COMPROMISE the constitution. I think we need to do just the opposite and promote and obey it even MORE. make it nearly as sacrosanct to the American mind as the Koran is to some Muslims. Make our Christian conviction MORE sacrosanct to minds world wide than Islam.
Islam is an bad ideology you don't fight another ideology by questioning and compromising your own.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

so what should we do about Saudi Arabia Tyr?
you see everything deep and clear.

Our leaders here kiss and bow the Saudi leadership, do business with them, we drive our cars with their muslim gas.
we had an air base on their soil that they made us leave. They are called partners. BUT the WORSE head chopping brand of Islam is pumped out of their soil. not Iran, or Syria. Saudis are free to come and go. the bin laden family got special privileges even.

Is trump going to do anything about the Saud's or are they somehow livable.

Look I know what Some Muslims ASPIRATIONS are. There Aspirations are not where i want to place my level of concern. i place mine at the level of their operational powers.
Hitler wanted a 1000 year Riech too. didn't happen... even with all the war bent modern germany state power, and axis powers behind him.
the Muslims have been trying to build this Caliphate ever since Mohammed showed up. Haven't made it past Spain since the middle ages.
So Tyr why are you so concerned about the Caliphate and the koran now?

And if we hadn't Helped the Taliban against Russia, removed Saddam and Khaddiffi and hadn't shook Bahirs reign by aiding Saudi-AQ-Alnusra-ISIS "rebellion" there be LESS jihaist islam and more peaceful contolled by dictators Islam .
Our big military actions have made things worse.

As far as Islam taking over the U.S. one day maybe.
OK look for one thing it's hard to keep track of who's taking over the country this week and who we need to fight for dear life with.

One Day it's the Mexicans and other south americans illegals "taking over the country"
the next week it's us Blacks
the next week it's Islam
next week it's the demoncrats
next it's the Canadains
A few years back communism was going to gooble us up any day now.

Some of which of course merit some real concern But IMO Not the level of concern you make it out to be.
It's a matter of degrees and approach Tyr.

I don't think we need to COMPROMISE the constitution. I think we need to do just the opposite and promote and obey it even MORE. make it nearly as sacrosanct to the American mind as the Koran is to some Muslims. Make our Christian conviction MORE sacrosanct to minds world wide than Islam.
Islam is an bad ideology you don't fight another ideology by questioning and compromising your own.

ok Rev--you got me. Why should anybody even worry about it as on 9/11 , 19 hijackers murdered over 3,000 people.
Thats a "MERE" 155 to one kill ratio. And thats not even with massive bombs, or chemical weapons or biological weapons.
But I am to rest assured your suggestion of not killing the bastards wins out for us!
I am just glad that nobody like you was around to advise Charles Martel.....

BELITTLE THIS TRUE AND GRAVE THREAT ALL YOU LIKE, IT CUTS NO DAMN ICE WITH ME.
I know far more about it , far better informed and put far more time and energy into than you ever have or ever will. How do I know that to be a fact-Answer because you think it not a treat worthy to be be more that highly amused about when others point out its true gravity!
Go ahead and send that ffing traitor Lynch your congratulations on her traitorous new commands to not dare even speak ill of these precious fukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkking verminnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

[PixieStix]

just for clarity here
@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) @PixieStix (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3344)

POST#153


THAT was the 1st time Islamophobia is mentioned in this thread.
"It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you."

this is saying that fear of Islam is justified because they ARE trying to kill us.
I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. That's what the the words mean.
if that's not what you meant pixie then you should have used different words.


POST#169



Post#180


Post#191


Post#269


Post#270

What? Please look at YOUR post #153. YOUR WORD. I just repeated it and addressed it.
own it folks.

Post#289


Be clear Gunny who posted "that stupid word" 1st? go to source buddy.

and let me get this strait, Pixie is a constitutionalist except where she feels "Islam" threatens her. Then at that point the constitution doesn't apply anymore because she and you believe you'll DIE if it's lived by?

Oh Good Lord. Chill out Brother. I was just making a statement that I make many times when I see people saying that people are afraid of Islam, or muslims. Let us be clear. I HATE Islam and you should too. It goes against everything that Christ is. It goes against everything that America is. America and Islam mixes like oil and water. Islam is EVIL. It was devil inspired.
And please give it up. You did say I was Islamaphobic. When I said it is NOT Islamaphobia when they really are trying to kill you. That means I am NOT Islamaphobic, I am not afraid of Islam. The Lord does not give us a spirit of fear. The only thing I think I am afraid of is something happening to my son. Are you fearful that we are going to create more terrorists? That is what Obama said, it is our fault.

You are allowed to hate evil

[Black Diamond]

Oh Good Lord. Chill out Brother. I was just making a statement that I make many times when I see people saying that people are afraid of Islam, or muslims. Let us be clear. I HATE Islam and you should too. It goes against everything that Christ is. It goes against everything that America is. America and Islam mixes like oil and water. Islam is EVIL. It was devil inspired.
And please give it up. You did say I was Islamaphobic. When I said it is NOT Islamaphobia when they really are trying to kill you. That means I am NOT Islamaphobic, I am not afraid of Islam. The Lord does not give us a spirit of fear. The only thing I think I am afraid of is something happening to my son. Are you fearful that we are going to create more terrorists? That is what Obama said, it is our fault.

You are allowed to hate evil

What, specifically, has you afraid for your son?

[PixieStix]

What, specifically, has you afraid for your son?

The same thing all Mothers worry about their children. It is just a Mom thing :)

And that his America won't be the same that I have enjoyed thanks to the lefty policies

[DragonStryk72]

Gabby is right. Rev is right. You guys are going down a horrific path, and thankfully, even other conservatives are leaving the side. I am DISGUSTED by the cowardice you all have shown here, and the hatred that has come with it. Trump will almost certainly lose the primaries, but if the party are truly cowards and push him forward, then he'll never make the presidency. So thankfully, regardless of how.this plays out, He will not be able to get to power.

Let me be clear: If he gets the nod, I will vote for whoever isn't him. They CANNOT be as much of a threat to America and it's values as he is. The greatest threat to Americans isn't teorrists, and never has been. It is terrified Americans. There is nothing else that can destroy us, and you are ALL a part of that destruction.

Oh, and don't worry, I know, none of you will move your position, because you're too afraid to even consider such No, it'll be time.for attacks, dismissal, whatever it takes. But know this: This is RACIST.

You say it's about Islam? How will we identify the Muslims to keep them out? Right, middle-eastern looking men with beards, and middle-eastern looking women wearing. So how many Israelis do you think will get barred? How many Indian Hindus who've never once been a problem for us? THAT'S RACISM. Preiod. It's not a debate. And the fact ithat has to.be pointed out, is just depressingly sad.

But you're all good Christians right? Great, please show me the Chapter and verse where Jesus would be at all okay with any of this. Here's one, "Love your enemy". Not your neighbor, not strangers your enemy, the one most directly against you. You all fail at this.

HOW MANY more terror groups do WE have to create before you guys get it throught your thick skulls? They only have the power we allowed them, through our own actions. We gave that power to AQ out of fear of the Russians. We gave that power to ISIS out of our fear of Saddam. At some point, you have to admit that the only reason we even have this enemy.is because of our fear. These idiots have only the power we give them, and you all just keep ceding them more.

[DragonStryk72]

The same thing all Mothers worry about their children. It is just a Mom thing :)

And that his America won't be the same that I have enjoyed thanks to the lefty policies

I'm more worried about an America that falls.to racist fear-mongering.

[DragonStryk72]

Because you keep preaching your cowardly Liberal ethics on others.

Go over there with your backpack and be a diplomat then.

Those animals will carve you up unless you assimilate,
and that is exactly what they are trying to do globally.

The only cowards I see here claim to be Conservatives, as they get ready to burn away the 1st Amendment out of fear of the smallest, weakest opponent we've faced in the entirety of our history.

How long before you strip them of their 4th Amendment rights? And their 2nd? How much of the Constitution do you have to burn away before you can no longer claim to be conservatives?

[Black Diamond]

I'm more worried about an America that falls.to racist fear-mongering.

Was FDR a racist fear monger? Or does the D after his name exonerate him?

[DragonStryk72]

Was FDR a racist fear monger? Or does the D after his name exonerate him?

Did he preside over Japanese internment camps? Then yes, he was. And 8f you support that, yourself, then yes, so are you.

But you know what I realized? I'm literally so disgusted with every single person in support of Trump, that I'm done.

This is not debate. This isn't an intelligent discussion of politics, or current events. It's just.mongering for hate and fear, and that's all that exists of this site anymore. And I know, it'll just be another dismissal, no one will change their stance, and calling me a lefties will happen. Whatever it takes for everyone to be able dismiss the truth of their hate and fear. You'll keep tearing down Rev, until he eventually walks awya. Same with FJ, and every other person who refuses to fall into line.

So I'm out, but as I walk away from this, let me leave a link to another conservative:

https://youtu.be/YJERrD0rO9M

[Perianne]

Did he preside over Japanese internment camps? Then yes, he was. And 8f you support that, yourself, then yes, so are you.

But you know what I realized? I'm literally so disgusted with every single person in support of Trump, that I'm done.

This is not debate. This isn't an intelligent discussion of politics, or current events. It's just.mongering for hate and fear, and that's all that exists of this site anymore. And I know, it'll just be another dismissal, no one will change their stance, and calling me a lefties will happen. Whatever it takes for everyone to be able dismiss the truth of their hate and fear. You'll keep tearing down Rev, until he eventually walks awya. Same with FJ, and every other person who refuses to fall into line.

So I'm out, but as I walk away from this, let me leave a link to another conservative:

https://youtu.be/YJERrD0rO9M (https://youtu.be/YJERrD0rO9M)

I don't want any of you to leave and never call any of you names. But we don't agree on stuff...except that there is way too much name calling amongst each other. It is that way on every forum I have ever seen.

[jimnyc]

This is not debate. This isn't an intelligent discussion of politics, or current events. It's just.mongering for hate and fear, and that's all that exists of this site anymore. And I know, it'll just be another dismissal, no one will change their stance, and calling me a lefties will happen. Whatever it takes for everyone to be able dismiss the truth of their hate and fear. You'll keep tearing down Rev, until he eventually walks awya. Same with FJ, and every other person who refuses to fall into line.

So I'm out, but as I walk away from this, let me leave a link to another conservative

There are more than 5-7 Trump supporters here. We have more than "hate and fear". I can go down a long list of names, but I think it would be pointless. It seems some are getting angry over Trump, and others supporting him. That I really don't get.

Hey, don't vote for Trump. I've never asked a single person to follow my lead. In fact, I've stated many times that "I" would follow the GOP lead, and vote and help get in the best person fit to beat Hillary. I'm not mad at a single other candidate, nor their words, nor those who choose to support them. I understand that many don't care for Trump - but others want to bite heads off for me doing so. And I speak for MYSELF when I say this. That's how I respond. I've not tried for any animosity whatsoever between candidates and those who support them.

But I have news for you, Dragon - read your post above. You sound like you want to kill me for liking Trump, and vow to vote for another party instead. Reasonable? Hey, if you think Hillary is what is best for our country, go for it. Then you're going to leave the board, because folks like Trump, or their support of makes them sound to be racist and such, or we "dismiss" the truth. How convenient that the truth is on your side, and I guess the rest of us are lying. :rolleyes:

I am truly saddened to see you go though. A very longtime member. But what are my alternatives? To demand all the Trump voters switch alliances? Demand those with racism in them to never ever say it again? Demand those that say mean and hateful things not do so again? I've never done those things from day one. Seems it was fairly ok with some - until the subject matter changed and there were disagreements on political candidates.

[Noir]

It seems some are getting angry over Trump, and others supporting him. That I really don't get.

Trump does little other than exude poison, some lap it up, other point out that's it's poison, and the differential line is not just party political. It's division upon division upon division, and no doubt trump will make some other statement that will further divide next week and so on.

The problems then arise that with each new division comes a group of 'lappers up' who become 'hey this is poison' people, and these people are vilified by the remaining lappers. It will be interesting to see if/when trump makes a statement that you consider too far Jim, and when pointing that out how you will react to being told you're too PC and leftie etc. Because they really mean it.

In the mean time those who have seen his vile ways from the early days get to watch people we know/respect etc continue to beat the drum for a man who just keeps getting worse and worse.

[jimnyc]

It will be interesting to see if/when trump makes a statement that you consider too far Jim, and when pointing that out how you will react to being told you're too PC and leftie etc. Because they really mean it. .

I've vowed to drop out of this for a tad, but wanted to address this out of respect.

I think some of his stuff already is too far. The man would have even a bigger lead if he acted presidential and stated things in a different manner. No way he deports 11 million folks overnight. No way he stops all muslims from entering. I like his thoughts, but the way he states things will be his undoing.

One can still be AGAINST the political correctness crap, and yet still expect someone to be professional. And that's what I would like. And I realize that's where a lot of the division is emanating from. That doesn't make me politically correct. Even if you run a business, if you try to act professionally, that's not PC. Avoiding the tough issues and refusing to state things about Islam, "radical muslims", black issues and other things - that's the PC shit that bugs a lot of people. Subjects. There are subjects that are now taboo that weren't just a few years ago. Now you use the word "queer" and you are a bad person. That's PC BS, IMO.

I'm popping off this subject for a tad. My sanity is making me do so. But I never said so in this thread so wanted to be respectful and reply. But that's the last one. You lucky fucker!! :lol:

[fj1200]

So, the 2003 invasion happened, because it HAD to happen.

Incorrect. There is always a choice.

Ted Cruz says Middle East was safer with Saddam Hussein: ‘That’s not even a close call’ (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ted-cruz-says-middle-east-was-safer-with-saddam-181023443.html)

[Perianne]

Trump does little other than exude poison, some lap it up, other point out that's it's poison, and the differential line is not just party political. It's division upon division upon division, and no doubt trump will make some other statement that will further divide next week and so on.

The problems then arise that with each new division comes a group of 'lappers up' who become 'hey this is poison' people, and these people are vilified by the remaining lappers. It will be interesting to see if/when trump makes a statement that you consider too far Jim, and when pointing that out how you will react to being told you're too PC and leftie etc. Because they really mean it.

In the mean time those who have seen his vile ways from the early days get to watch people we know/respect etc continue to beat the drum for a man who just keeps getting worse and worse.

I am not truly...maybe 35%...for Trump. Things about him concern me. At this point, however, I despise the Republican Party (of which I am a member) so much for their failures to listen to their voters that I tend to pull for anyone they dislike. Their insistence on bringing Trump down makes up a good portion of that 35% in me. I want Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, National Review's Kevin Williamson, and other Republican elite to go down, down, and further down. I want our party back. I heard an elite on TV a few days ago say that anyone who supports Trump is an idiot. So, when the elite won't support a member of their own party, I say to heck with the elite and I instinctively support their enemy.

[pete311]

I am truly saddened to see you go though. A very longtime member. But what are my alternatives? To demand all the Trump voters switch alliances?

It's not your support that is disturbing for this forum. It's the fact that some members result to gang trolling when they have nothing constructive to say. It's no longer point-counterpoint debate, which is what this community should be about.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's not your support that is disturbing for this forum. It's the fact that some members result to gang trolling when they have nothing constructive to say. It's not longer point-counterpoint debate, which is what this community should be about.
So says the atheist that got racked over the coals for his support of BBT , in which he denied it was created to refute the existence of God.
Sour grapes.... and sour milk --should do you good, O' arrogant lib.. -Tyr

[pete311]

So says the atheist that got racked over the coals for his support of BBT , in which he denied it was created to refute the existence of God.
Sour grapes.... and sour milk --should do you good, O' arrogant lib.. -Tyr

thank you for this excellent example of my point above

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

thank you for this excellent example of my point above
Well, somebody had to help you...-Tyr

[Jeff]

WOW, all this sheot over who someone decides to vote for :laugh: and we are all on the same side, but we argue ( leave boards and such ) as the liberals are laughing like hell. Obama planted that thought in the liberal mind how if Trump starts doing good well it will wreck the republican party, the libs repeated it and now we have conservatives saying they will vote other parties because they hate Trump so much. :rolleyes: Seriously, we are going to let Obama win on his way out as well. Hell people vote for who you want, support your man/woman, and if ya can't debate it then don't ( plenty of other threads to get involved in. )

Honestly other than the occasional "JOIN THE TRUMP TRAIN " I have pretty much given up on the hopes of having a calm debate over the candidates, I can remember when I first thought of going for Trump I was attacked ( by a couple folks I have know for a long time and really respect ) but they got down right nasty, seems as though those that don't like Trump get nasty as hell about the subject and any on the left love the arguments they see between 2 party members, Just as their messiah predicted. Go figure, I usually come to read and learn, this morning I sound like I am the voice of reason. :laugh:

[fj1200]

Go figure, I usually come to read and learn, this morning I sound like I am the voice of reason. :laugh:

I think that is one of the signs of the apocalypse. :eek:

[Drummond]

Incorrect. There is always a choice.

Ted Cruz says Middle East was safer with Saddam Hussein: ‘That’s not even a close call’ (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ted-cruz-says-middle-east-was-safer-with-saddam-181023443.html)



I stand corrected - there was a choice ... of sorts.

The choice was between what actually happened, and its alternative - which was to let Saddam Hussein get away with defying the UN, defying world opinion and wishes, and instead to feel free to keep as many WMD's within his borders as he chose to, without having to report or be accountable for any of them, EVER.

Other tinpot dictators would, of course, be able to view Saddam's successful defiance as proof that there was nothing to stop them doing exactly the same thing.

One or more might've then handed some over to terrorists. Between 2003 and now, how many deployments of WMD's in terrorist attacks might have happened by now ? The 2003 Iraq invasion may well have prevented loss of life counted in MILLIONS, for all you know.

Showing the world that rogue regimes cannot hope to get away with not being answerable for their weapons-stocks couldn't help but be good for world security. Unless you think that, maybe, ISIS can be trusted with a stock of them ??

[revelarts]

I've vowed to drop out of this for a tad, but wanted to address this out of respect.

I think some of his stuff already is too far. The man would have even a bigger lead if he acted presidential and stated things in a different manner. No way he deports 11 million folks overnight. No way he stops all muslims from entering. I like his thoughts, but the way he states things will be his undoing.

One can still be AGAINST the political correctness crap, and yet still expect someone to be professional. And that's what I would like. And I realize that's where a lot of the division is emanating from. That doesn't make me politically correct. Even if you run a business, if you try to act professionally, that's not PC. Avoiding the tough issues and refusing to state things about Islam, "radical muslims", black issues and other things - that's the PC shit that bugs a lot of people. Subjects. There are subjects that are now taboo that weren't just a few years ago. Now you use the word "queer" and you are a bad person. That's PC BS, IMO.

I'm popping off this subject for a tad. My sanity is making me do so. But I never said so in this thread so wanted to be respectful and reply. But that's the last one. You lucky fucker!! :lol:


See I wouldn't mind this so much if Ron Paul hadn't been derided over and over as a racist and that idea use as one of the main reasons people here wouldn't support him. Also people claim solid Tea party affiliation and votes based on their constitutional commitments.

Ron paul was associated with some REAL bad racist newsletter 20 + years ago that he didn't write but has apologized for graciously over and over again and proven his racial ...indifference/acceptance... by many acts and words over the time he was congress and during the campaign. His voting record was conservative and constitutional. Voted for getting bin laden in Afghanistan but against the invasion of Iraq which even Bush and his brother now admit was based on "bad intel" and not a great move. And we see the terrible fallout from it is ISIS , billions of dollars down and Iraqi rat hole and dead and injured soldiers.

Trump, TODAY, spews crazy poisonous stuff about women, Mexicans, Muslims, makes fun the handicapped then doubles down or makes thin excuses. He make pronouncements/promises about things he'll do as president that presidents don't have the constitutional authority to do. Claims he's going to send more men into Iraq to "fix it" . But the same people who called Paul to far gone racially and constitution lovers are willing to agree, makes excuses for or over look this horror show. And still support him because what? he's ahead in the polls? (polls that people believe selectively or deny as false propaganda on other issues BTW) And say they'll be in line to vote for him in the end if he's the party candidate.

I'm sorry but it's REAL sad to watch the worse side of the republican party become the lead. RINO republicans were bad enough but
there's little to nothing appealing about Trump's words and plans. It's nearly all based on marginalizing everyone that's not his kind of american. And doing "whatever it takes" ...within constitutional limits or the law "trust me":rolleyes:... to get his slipshod, back pocket, "don't worry...I'll let you know" policies done.

At least when Obama ran he ran on "HOPE". False hope to be sure but at least it was positive BS.
Trump is spewing from the dark side, playing into people's fears and anger. Overhyped or FALSE fears and ginned up bar room anger.
Fear and Anger are not the wholesome american values that the Republicans used to try roll out as part of the advertising message at least.
but now it's seems to be the driving force.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Rev

Trumps, TODAY, spews crazy poisonous stuff about women, Mexicans, Muslims, makes fun the handicapped then doubles down or make thin excuses. He make pronouncements/promises about things he'll do as president that the president don't have the constitutional authority to do. Claims he's going to send more men into Iraq to "fix it" . But the same people who called Paul to far gone racially and constitution lovers are willing to agree, makes excuses for or over look this horror show. And still support him because what? he's ahead in the polls? (polls that people believe selectively or deny as false propaganda on other issues BTW) And say they'll be in line to vote for him in the end if he's the party candidate.

So you say but if its so crazy his talk why is he leading the field and indestructible to the actions levied against him by the media, the dems, the dem party, even the Republican party leadership and all the other republican candidates except maybe Cruz?
Something just doesnt add up as his tens of millions supporters are not bat-shit crazies!
Yet you just gave the dem/lib line on him ..

His words on stopping muslim immigration into this nation are Constitutional and backed by a 1952 law!!

Wake up and actually research instead of repeating the many lies that his enemies spew. -Tyr

[revelarts]

Rev
So you say but if its so crazy his talk why is he leading the field and indestructible to the actions levied against him by the media, the dems, the dem party, even the Republican party leadership and all the other republican candidates except maybe Cruz?
Something just doesnt add up as his tens of millions supporters are not bat-shit crazies!

Nether were many others who've somehow still followed other charismatic politicians in history over the cliff.




Yet you just gave the dem/lib line on him ..


you know i'm not a Dem and think for myself, I can never figure out why you and some others think that because a Dem says something it's AUTOMATICALLY wrong. that makes NO logical sense. If it's wrong prove it. don't make FACTS guilty by association with Dems or Muslims or Illegals whoevers the current punching bag. If Hitler says 'the SKY is Blue today' he may be right! Check it for yourself. You saying 'the sky is blue today' as well doesn't make you a follower of Hitler. it just makes you RIGHT.
You know this but you use the line anyway, WHY?
If you have someway to back up Trumps nasty commentary go for it. if not tell the truth about what it is and leave it there.



His words on stopping muslim immigration into this nation are Constitutional and backed by a 1952 law!!
Wake up and actually research instead of repeating the many lies that his enemies spew. -Tyr
1776 law is what I'm talking about tyr.

[Drummond]

I'm completely baffled by any association being drawn between Trump's call for Muslims being denied entry to the US, and allegation(s) of its being something RACIST.

Islam is not a race. 'People' of various races can follow it, and act in the furtherance of its aims. Trump wants MUSLIMS to be banned from entry. This surely means what it says ?

Richard Reid. White, BRITISH, and a Muslim terrorist. If he was free today, if he remained a terrorist as before ... is anyone saying that Trump would somehow NOT want to see any ban apply to him ? Can anyone provide evidence to that effect .. or as being applicable to any other white Muslim terrorist ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

IF NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS .... then any presumption of 'racism' is provably unfounded, and nothing 'more' than an attempt at demonisation. It's as simple as that.

High time that the truth of Trump's true intention is understood, and not warped out of all recognition.

[pete311]

I'm completely baffled by any association being drawn between Trump's call for Muslims being denied entry to the US, and allegation(s) of its being something RACIST.


Of course he means arabs. Indonesia has the most muslims of any country. Think Trump was talking about them? hell no. It's racist.

[Gunny]

just for clarity here
@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) @PixieStix (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3344)

POST#153


THAT was the 1st time Islamophobia is mentioned in this thread.
"It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you."

this is saying that fear of Islam is justified because they ARE trying to kill us.
I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. That's what the the words mean.
if that's not what you meant pixie then you should have used different words.


POST#169



Post#180


Post#191


Post#269


Post#270

What? Please look at YOUR post #153. YOUR WORD. I just repeated it and addressed it.
own it folks.

Post#289


Be clear Gunny who posted "that stupid word" 1st? go to source buddy.

and let me get this strait, Pixie is a constitutionalist except where she feels "Islam" threatens her. Then at that point the constitution doesn't apply anymore because she and you believe you'll DIE if it's lived by?

Just for clarity: "phobia" is a FEAR. I don't consider being intelligent enough to keep the bad guys out of my house a fear. I'm an electrician. I don't fear electricity. I respect the Hell out of what it can do to me if I screw up. I was Marine before that. I didn't fear my weapons but I sure as shit didn't go looking down the barrel of loaded weapons.

Your argument is leftwing BS. Anytime someone on the right doesn't like someone/group for some reason you bust out that "phobia" word. One can only surmise you're too ignorant to know what the word means, or you're just trying to dishonestly demean people who disagree with you.

The only phobia I know that I have is Hitlery becoming President because no one on the right wants to get their sh*t together and get a united front going.

[NightTrain]

Of course he means arabs. Indonesia has the most muslims of any country. Think Trump was talking about them? hell no. It's racist.


Islam is a religion, smart one.

I know you libs loves you some racist designations, but do try to keep your definitions straight, mmmkay?

[PixieStix]

I find it a bit disingenuous for many of the "conservative politicians" to attack Donald Trump on his stance which is no different than what they propose to do. The only difference I see is that Donald Trump doesn't have a politically correct bone in his body.

Take Rand Paul for example

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/04/paul-we-need-to-put-a-pause-on-immigration-from-middle-east/


http://video.foxnews.com/v/4651835654001/rand-paul-we-need-immigration-pause-not-religious-test/?#sp=show-clips

I ask you what bis the difference?

[pete311]

Islam is a religion, smart one.

I know you libs loves you some racist designations, but do try to keep your definitions straight, mmmkay?

Smart one, you missed what I was saying. Trump is clearly not talking about banning Indonesians, even though they are mostly Muslim. He wants to ban Arab Muslims. Keyword, Arab. mmmkay?

[pete311]

I ask you what bis the difference?

I think it's pretty clear. Paul wants a country ban, Trump wants a Muslim ban.

[Gunny]

I find it a bit disingenuous for many of the "conservative politicians" to attack Donald Trump on his stance which is no different than what they propose to do. The only difference I see is that Donald Trump doesn't have a politically correct bone in his body.

Take Rand Paul for example

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/04/paul-we-need-to-put-a-pause-on-immigration-from-middle-east/


http://video.foxnews.com/v/4651835654001/rand-paul-we-need-immigration-pause-not-religious-test/?#sp=show-clips

I ask you what bis the difference?

I don't like Trump because he's alienating independents and moderates. The far right cannot win on it's own. And what THAT tells me is he's out of touch with the constituency he's trying to appeal to. And for all his hot air, he can't put a single one of his promises through Congress.

I don't disagree with a lot of what he says, but then, Attila the Hun is one of my all-time favorites. I'm all for stopping ALL emigration and turning the Southern border into a death zone. Problem is, it's not selling. Then there's the fact he's got to outdo himself each and every time with something more absurd. He's got 11 months to go. He's running out of time.

[NightTrain]

You missed what I was saying. Trump is clearly not talking about banning Indonesians, even though they are mostly Muslim. He wants to ban Arab Muslims. Keyword, Arab. mmmkay?


He said "muslims", genius.

Play your racist word games all you'd like, it doesn't fly.

People with common sense realize that muzzies come in every color. Manufacturing your racist label and then moaning about it is completely asinine and doesn't fool anyone.

[Kathianne]

I don't like Trump because he's alienating independents and moderates. The far right cannot win on it's own. And what THAT tells me is he's out of touch with the constituency he's trying to appeal to. And for all his hot air, he can't put a single one of his promises through Congress.

I don't disagree with a lot of what he says, but then, Attila the Hun is one of my all-time favorites. I'm all for stopping ALL emigration and turning the Southern border into a death zone. Problem is, it's not selling. Then there's the fact he's got to outdo himself each and every time with something more absurd. He's got 11 months to go. He's running out of time.

Well said, in your fashion. ;) There's no reason to believe he's 'conservative' either. His supporters hear what they want to hear.

[PixieStix]

I think it's pretty clear. Paul wants a country ban, Trump wants a Muslim ban.

He introduced a bill yesterday, for ME bans for many countries, not one. No difference. I find the other so called Conservatives to be a bit too PC. I hate PC

[Drummond]

Of course he means arabs. Indonesia has the most muslims of any country. Think Trump was talking about them? hell no. It's racist.

So you claim. But all I'm seeing is assertions -- no evidence.

Provide evidence of what you assert. Show me proof that some races who are also Muslims, are definitely EXCLUDED from Trump's proposed ban. If you can't, then you've no basis for any accusation of racism, and in that event, you should rescind that accusation.

[revelarts]

Just for clarity: "phobia" is a FEAR. I don't consider being intelligent enough to keep the bad guys out of my house a fear. I'm an electrician. I don't fear electricity. I respect the Hell out of what it can do to me if I screw up. I was Marine before that. I didn't fear my weapons but I sure as shit didn't go looking down the barrel of loaded weapons.
Your argument is leftwing BS. Anytime someone on the right doesn't like someone/group for some reason you bust out that "phobia" word. One can only surmise you're too ignorant to know what the word means, or you're just trying to dishonestly demean people who disagree with you.
The only phobia I know that I have is Hitlery becoming President because no one on the right wants to get their sh*t together and get a united front going.

I guess you're too ignorant to read that Pixie used it 1st or to go and correct her use of it which she's tried to deny then to explain away.
She used it one way but somehow expects us to know that she meant it a different way.
Look I've misspoken before to, but i try to own it.
I won't lose respect for others who do the same but don't try to con me and say I called Pixie Islamaphobic out of the blue, When she said
""It is not Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you."
Sorry, gunny your full of crap. find another handle to be upset with me about this one is broken.

And if you don't like the term fine, I've always been very clear on it's meaning, I think Pixie's use of it makes the point well.
and I guess you 'respect the Hell out of' Islam then, fine whatever.
I suppose i do too, but i don't respect it as much as some people.

[pete311]

He said "muslims", genius.

Play your racist word games all you'd like, it doesn't fly.

People with common sense realize that muzzies come in every color. Manufacturing your racist label and then moaning about it is completely asinine and doesn't fool anyone.

Yes I'm sure Trump is focused on those 200+ million Indonesian Muslims. You are right. Very dangerous. Indonesia is in focus.

[pete311]

He introduced a bill yesterday, for ME bans for many countries, not one. No difference. I find the other so called Conservatives to be a bit too PC. I hate PC

Are you daft? By definition a religious ban is different than a country ban.

[Gunny]

He introduced a bill yesterday, for ME bans for many countries, not one. No difference. I find the other so called Conservatives to be a bit too PC. I hate PC

It'll get squashed. I don't blame Rand Paul for agreeing with Trump on something. There IS a difference. Trump said Muslims. Paul is saying countries.

Either way, WE, not these idiots in government, should be the ones deciding what is the right thing to do. If an Arab moved next door to me the Concertina wire would be up before midnight, right after I purchased a couple of Rottweilers. A couple of people want to make this about fear, but I make it about not being stupid. I don't trust anyone to begin with, and I trust Arabs even less. They're ALWAYS up to some dirty-ass crap.

[pete311]

So you claim. But all I'm seeing is assertions -- no evidence.

Provide evidence of what you assert. Show me proof that some races who are also Muslims, are definitely EXCLUDED from Trump's proposed ban. If you can't, then you've no basis for any accusation of racism, and in that event, you should rescind that accusation.

My point is that Trump wants to block arab muslims from the US yet many of the world's muslims live in Indonesia. Why block Indonesians?

[NightTrain]

Yes I'm sure Trump is focused on those 200+ million Indonesian Muslims. You are right. Very dangerous. Indonesia is in focus.


Are you? Did he spell out Indonesian muzzies?

Nope. He said muzzies.

Aren't you clever by trying to put words in the man's mouth?

Checkmate, chump.

Better go brush up at DU and try to get another bullshit soundbite to attempt smearing.

[pete311]

They're ALWAYS up to some dirty-ass crap.

What a tortured soul you are. Sorry your life experiences have led you to such a jaded and hateful perspective.

[pete311]

Are you? Did he spell out Indonesian muzzies?

Nope. He said muzzies.

So tell me what is Trump so afraid of with the Indonesian muslims?

[PixieStix]

Are you daft? By definition a religious ban is different than a country ban.
Are you? Apparently you forget that it isn't Hindu's, or Buddhism, or Christians , or Jews, that have declared war on our United States and it's civilians. But the people that have are, dare I say ....muslims?

[Kathianne]

So tell me what is Trump so afraid of with the Indonesian muslims?

Seems there's plenty of terrorists over in Indonesia, though they seem to stay there. Have you heard of a bunch of Indonesians trying to enter US as refugees?

[Gunny]

What a tortured soul you are. Sorry your life experiences have led you to such a jaded and hateful perspective.

I'm a tortured soul? Because I can recognize and define an enemy to the US Constitution? You know ... that paper that gives you the Right to be stupid? Let's try the common sense line, since the legal one isn't up your alley ...

You want to let people in that want to convert or kill you? Brilliant. What's your next move, Napoleon? Waterloo?

[NightTrain]

So tell me what is Trump so afraid of with the Indonesian muslims?


They're as fucked up as any other group of muzzies.

Here, have a gander :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia


He wisely said "muslims" so that stupid people like you who want to create more racial discord whenever people are unfortunate enough to be exposed to your hyperbole are easily shut down.

That's why, Petey. That's why.

[pete311]

Are you? Apparently you forget that it isn't Hindu's, or Buddhism, or Christians , or Jews, that have declared war on our United States and it's civilians. But the people that have are, dare I say ....muslims?

What does this have to do with you not understanding the difference between a country and religious ban?

[NightTrain]

What a tortured soul you are. Sorry your life experiences have led you to such a jaded and hateful perspective.


That's funny stuff.

He's pleasant to be around - it's always miserable liberal worms like you that attempt to portray decent people in that manner.

It's a classic liberal psychosis.

And that shit doesn't fly, either, Petey. We're smelling what you're stepping in.

[pete311]

Seems there's plenty of terrorists over in Indonesia, though they seem to stay there. Have you heard of a bunch of Indonesians trying to enter US as refugees?

Last time I heard there wasn't a civil war there

[Gunny]

They're as fucked up as any other group of muzzies.

Here, have a gander :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia


He wisely said "muslims" so that stupid people like you who want to create more racial discord whenever people are unfortunate enough to be exposed to your hyperbole are easily shut down.

That's why, Petey. That's why.

They're actually worse. Indonesia is a shit hole. I'm surprised Pete didn't while he was wandering the Middle East with his backpack. Dirty little ragged kids in the street begging and the girls get sold off as whores at about 12. Wonderful place. :rolleyes:

[pete311]

They're as fucked up as any other group of muzzies.

Here, have a gander :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia


He wisely said "muslims" so that stupid people like you who want to create more racial discord whenever people are unfortunate enough to be exposed to your hyperbole are easily shut down.

That's why, Petey. That's why.

You can make a list for every country. Let's just full block all immigration, put up 200 ft walls, end all international travel, board up our homes and only communicate via aol chatrooms

[pete311]

That's funny stuff.

He's pleasant to be around - it's always miserable liberal worms like you that attempt to portray decent people in that manner.

It's a classic liberal psychosis.

And that shit doesn't fly, either, Petey. We're smelling what you're stepping in.

hate hate hate, all you guys do. maybe a little poetry too, but mostly hate

[NightTrain]

hate hate hate, all you guys do. maybe a little poetry too, but mostly hate


:laugh:

Don't get too flustered there, Petey. I don't hate you, little fella.

Actually, I feel sorry for you... it would suck to ignorantly run around like you do without the benefit of basic common sense.

Your feeble attempts to twist what people say into your own warped little narrative are quite amusing.

[Drummond]

My point is that Trump wants to block arab muslims from the US yet many of the world's muslims live in Indonesia. Why block Indonesians?

Trump's focus is on terrorism. He notes, completely fairly and reasonably, that it's Muslim terrorism that threatens America.

Hence his called-for ban. Very possibly he specifically had the Middle East in mind in terms of geography, following the not-unreasonable observation that it's from that region, that the terrorism originates. After all, it's the threat to America that prompts him to speak out, so, what else could you have expected ?

That said .. I'm still looking for proof from you that Trump targeted any specific Islamic-following race, over other specific Islamic-following races, for his ban. In other words .. prove to me that there are some Islamists who are immune from consideration.

Tell me. In the aftermath of 9/11, when Bush targeted Afghanistan for military action, was he being RACIST for initially going after that one country ? Did he also need to attack Indonesia to escape any such charge ?!? Or, was he dealing directly with the source of a threat ?

Therefore, Trump is doing the same. Neither stance is any more racist than the other.

[fj1200]

I stand corrected - there was a choice ... of sorts.

The choice was between what actually happened, and its alternative - which was to let Saddam Hussein get away with defying the UN, defying world opinion and wishes, and instead to feel free to keep as many WMD's within his borders as he chose to, without having to report or be accountable for any of them, EVER.

Other tinpot dictators would, of course, be able to view Saddam's successful defiance as proof that there was nothing to stop them doing exactly the same thing.

One or more might've then handed some over to terrorists. Between 2003 and now, how many deployments of WMD's in terrorist attacks might have happened by now ? The 2003 Iraq invasion may well have prevented loss of life counted in MILLIONS, for all you know.

Showing the world that rogue regimes cannot hope to get away with not being answerable for their weapons-stocks couldn't help but be good for world security. Unless you think that, maybe, ISIS can be trusted with a stock of them ??

There's no choice "of sorts." There is always a choice. You're just creating this scenario that forces you down a line of decision making that leads to questionable results. There was little, if any, asking of what are the possible outcomes if we take the action. We ended up trading the evil we knew for the evil we didn't know when we thought we were trading evil for good; It didn't turn out that way; The evil we didn't know is worse than the evil we did know for all involved.

All you have is what ifs and what might haves. The point is your statement of "had to" is demonstrably false.

[NightTrain]

You can make a list for every country. Let's just full block all immigration, put up 200 ft walls, end all international travel, board up our homes and only communicate via aol chatrooms


Nope, just muzzies, Petey.


Do try to keep up, little fella!

[pete311]

Trump's focus is on terrorism. He notes, completely fairly and reasonably, that it's Muslim terrorism that threatens America.

Hence his called-for ban. Very possibly he specifically had the Middle East in mind in terms of geography, following the not-unreasonable observation that it's from that region, that the terrorism originates. After all, it's the threat to America that prompts him to speak out, so, what else could you have expected ?

You'd expect at most the country ban which Paul has introduced.

[Drummond]

There's no choice "of sorts." There is always a choice. You're just creating this scenario that forces you down a line of decision making that leads to questionable results. There was little, if any, asking of what are the possible outcomes if we take the action. We ended up trading the evil we knew for the evil we didn't know when we thought we were trading evil for good; It didn't turn out that way; The evil we didn't know is worse than the evil we did know for all involved.

All you have is what ifs and what might haves. The point is your statement of "had to" is demonstrably false.

What on earth are you talking about ?

A particular situation existed, and it was dealt with.

I did not 'create' the scenario of Saddam defying the UN, nor what that defiance was about. I did not 'create' the history or extent of Saddam's intransigence, which had lasted for many years.

And how can you make any allowance for any evil that you DON'T know about ? If you don't know about it, then, you don't know about it !!!

But if you want to prognosticate, OK ... try this out.

What's worse .. what we now have, or a world where everyone sees the UN as entirely toothless and eminently ignorable .. where any/all Nation States feel themselves to be at liberty to stockpile, or even trade, any number of WMD's of their choice ?

ISIS came about because Obama failed to follow through with Bush's War on Terror .. he created an opportunity for ISIS to emerge, and so it did. Nonetheless, this is STILL better than a Middle East, or for that matter any and all Muslim nations, possessing as many WMD's as their Jihadist urges will be satisfied with !!!

[Gunny]

You can make a list for every country. Let's just full block all immigration, put up 200 ft walls, end all international travel, board up our homes and only communicate via aol chatrooms

Sounds like a plan to me. You think you're being smartass but you actually accidentally hit the right word. I agree with Trump and Paul. Shut this sh*t down until WE know WTF is going on. You don't regroup and revise plans on the line. You contain, and regroup in the rear.

And you collaborators can let these murdering zealots come live with YOU. Hope you sleep tight at night. You can't save the f-ing world if you can't even saver yourselves. And you lefties always have the same old song and dance. Only you don't do the fighting. You leave it up to us. So who is worse? The killer? Or the limpdick that hires his killing done and thinks he's all innocent because someone else did it?

[fj1200]

What on earth are you talking about ?

A particular situation existed, and it was dealt with.

I did not 'create' the scenario of Saddam defying the UN, nor what that defiance was about. I did not 'create' the history or extent of Saddam's intransigence, which had lasted for many years.

And how can you make any allowance for any evil that you DON'T know about ? If you don't know about it, then, you don't know about it !!!

But if you want to prognosticate, OK ... try this out.

What's worse .. what we now have, or a world where everyone sees the UN as entirely toothless and eminently ignorable .. where any/all Nation States feel themselves to be at liberty to stockpile, or even trade, any number of WMD's of their choice ?

ISIS came about because Obama failed to follow through with Bush's War on Terror .. he created an opportunity for ISIS to emerge, and so it did. Nonetheless, this is STILL better than a Middle East, or for that matter any and all Muslim nations, possessing as many WMD's as their Jihadist urges will be satisfied with !!!

You make statements that you can't know to be true. Nevertheless:


Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

Saddam sucked, he was cruel to his people, etc. etc. but we may have created our own worst enemy:


Potential to destabilize the region (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Criticism)

Besides arguing that Iraq was not the top strategic priority in the war on terrorism or in the Middle East, critics of the war also suggested that it could potentially destabilize the surrounding region. Prominent among such critics was Brent Scowcroft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Scowcroft), who served as National Security Advisor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_(United_States)) to George H. W. Bush (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush). In a 15 August 2002 Wall Street Journal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Journal)editorial entitled "Don't attack Saddam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein)", Scowcroft wrote that, "Possibly the most dire consequences would be the effect in the region ... there would be an explosion of outrage against us ... the results could well destabilize Arab regimes", and, "could even swell the ranks of the terrorists."[251] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#cite_note-251) In an October 2015 CNN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN) interview with Fareed Zakaria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareed_Zakaria), former British Prime Minister Tony Blair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair) apologized for his 'mistakes' over Iraq War and admitted there were 'elements of truth' to the view that the invasion helped promote the rise of ISIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant).[252] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#cite_note-252)

Oh, and the UN IS toothless and ignorable anyway.

[Drummond]

You'd expect at most the country ban which Paul has introduced.

Really ?

Consider the Muslims presently in Europe. Consider the 'home grown' element of the Paris attacks (allowing for the Belgium / France divide, which thanks to the EU's ridiculous open-border policy, doesn't amount to anything at all).

Consider the possibility, and I think increasing likelihood, of Muslim terrorists originating from my part of the world .. partly those already 'radicalised', also partly those who'll doubtless emerge from all those 'refugees' streaming across Europe from that 'suspect-free' country, namely, SYRIA ....

- Now. Are you seriously telling me that America should expect AT MOST a ban against just one country, ignoring any and all threats from any others ?

Or, is it more reasonable to do what Trump HAS done, and call for a ban against ..... MUSLIMS .. ?

[Drummond]

You make statements that you can't know to be true.

Ridiculous. I commented on issues of historical fact. OK, maybe Leftie Central hasn't educated you about them. All the same, I can assure you that ample evidence of Saddam's intransigence exists, as does evidence of UN Resolution 1441 !!

All else follows. It'd be illogical in the extreme for you to suppose that what I say could happen definitely could NOT have happened.


Saddam sucked, he was cruel to his people, etc. etc.

... grounds in itself to see him deposed, BUT, this was not the reason for the invasion of 2003. The reason for it was to finally deal with the perceived threat which Saddam's intransigence told us we had to consider existed.


but we may have created our own worst enemy:

Very possibly, you can lay that charge firmly at OBAMA'S door, for failing to keep troops where they were needed, much less ANNOUNCING their WITHDRAWAL.

Here's a thought. For aiding a future enemy, namely, ISIS .. certainly for opening the door to their emergence .. why not consider Obama to be impeachable for creating that opportunity for them ? Would you now, finally, for the first time ever, like to support a suggestion for Obama's impeachment ?

.. NO ? ..

.. What a surprise ...


Oh, and the UN IS toothless and ignorable anyway.

Not if it gets the help it needs from its Member States, it's not.

Except that you seem to resent it when that help is forthcoming ....

[Drummond]

Just listened to a Sky News report. According to them, the 'ban Trump from the UK' petition has now got around 225,000 signatures, so the rate at which it's collecting new ones is actually increasing. I think it's a reasonably obvious point to make that the greater the number of signatures it gets, the harder it'll be for politicians to not follow through and institute such a ban.

The petition has now passed the half-million mark, making it the most contributed-to petition the UK Government's website has ever hosted.

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/e-petition-to-ban-donald-trump-from-uk-passes-500000-signatures-11364028313184


An online petition to ban US presidential hopeful Donald Trump, which has become the most popular ever on the Government's website, has passed the half a million mark.

The number of people signing the petition, which was set up almost two weeks ago, soared in recent days following calls by the property tycoon and reality TV star for Muslims to be barred from entering the US and his claim that parts of London were so "radicalised" that police feared for their lives.

A poll on the parliamentary website calling for his exclusion from the UK raced past the 100,000-signature threshold to be considered for debate in Parliament and has topped the previous record of 446,482.

At its peak, the petition was lengthening by more than seven signatures a second and users experienced difficulties accessing the page due to higher than usual traffic. It gained around 140,000 signatures in just over a day, to reach the 500,000 mark in the early hours of Friday.

The previous top spot was held by a petition earlier this year calling for the UK to accept more asylum seekers and increase refugee support, which was signed 446,924 times.

Prime Minister David Cameron said Mr Trump's comments were "divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong", while London mayor Boris Johnson said they rendered him "unfit to hold the office of the president of the United States".

The businessman, who owns two golf courses in Scotland - Trump International Golf Links in Aberdeenshire and Trump Turnberry in South Ayrshire - has been stripped of an honorary degree from Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen and had his membership of the GlobalScot business network removed.

But he received support from TV personality and MailOnline columnist Katie Hopkins, who urged the public not to demonise him.

Hopkins, who told Fox News Mr Trump had support from a quarter of the population of the UK, tweeted: "It's because Trump & I articulate sentiments repressed by the politically correct consensus that we have a voice."

Mr Trump then thanked the "respected columnist" for her "powerful writing on the U.K.'s Muslim problems" before claiming "Many people in the U.K. agree with me!".

Following a backlash about his comments on police in London he remained unrepentant, writing on Twitter: "The United Kingdom is trying hard to disguise their massive Muslim problem. Everybody is wise to what is happening, very sad! Be honest."

Polls taken in the US after Mr Trump's original remarks were publicised showed a spike in support among Republican primary voters, with Mr Trump on around 35% and as many as 20 points ahead of his main rivals.

Suzanne Kelly, who originally lodged the petition to ban the US billionaire, said it was "one of many little acts of defiance" against Mr Trump.

I don't believe our Government can credibly ignore such a petition - by that, I mean they'll end up feeling that they have to follow through on it.

For what it's worth, I'd say that the UK is in complete denial over our Muslim problem. Government and media alike insist that no real problem exists, that what problem there is comes from a few fringe nutters. Every single time we hear of a terrorist atrocity, so we get a concentrated blast of media prononcements insisting that those responsible either do not represent 'mainstream' Islam .. or, more recently, that's been ramped up to say that they're not Muslims AT ALL.

[pete311]

Or, is it more reasonable to do what Trump HAS done, and call for a ban against ..... MUSLIMS .. ?

When you punish 99.9999% of a people for the perceived danger of a few it's not a good policy. Isn't that a pro gun argument?

[Gunny]

When you punish 99.9999% of a people for the perceived danger of a few it's not a good policy. Isn't that a pro gun argument?

Sure. And, no. Since you like your percentages, what percentage of responsible US citizen gun owners commit gun crimes? You can knock off the first "99". You people are stupid. You think a guy willing to murder you for your wallet gives a shit about a gun law? They're criminals. I don't know what part of that doesn't seep into idiot leftwing minds. Must be the logic and common sense.

On the other hand, how many Islamic terrorists are NOT Islamic? F*cking whoops. There goes another one of your dumbass arguments.

[pete311]

On the other hand, how many Islamic terrorists are NOT Islamic? F*cking whoops. There goes another one of your dumbass arguments.

Since when is being a Muslim a crime?

[Gunny]

Since when is being a Muslim a crime?

Play semantics with someone you can compete with. I never said any such thing. I asked how many Islamic terrorists aren't Islamic? Ever think about answering a straight question with a straight answer?

However, ANY Muslim that believes in Sharia law cannot pledge allegiance to our Constitution and OUR Constitution is OUR law of the land. You want to come here and do it our way? Then do it OUR way. Leave your unconstitutional baggage at the door.

Matter of fact, you lefties should leave with them. You're so sympathetic to them. You just spend all your time wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Don't believe in our law? Bye. I won't miss you.

[Perianne]

When you punish 99.9999% of a people for the perceived danger of a few it's not a good policy. Isn't that a pro gun argument?

Muslims do not have any "right" to immigrate to America. We're not taking away anyone's rights by refusing entry.

[pete311]

Play semantics with someone you can compete with. I never said any such thing. I asked how many Islamic terrorists aren't Islamic? Ever think about answering a straight question with a straight answer?


Please get over yourself. What is the point to your question?


Muslims do not have any "right" to immigrate to America. We're not taking away anyone's rights by refusing entry.

It's not a legal issue but a moral one.

[Gunny]

Please get over yourself. What is the point to your question?



It's not a legal issue but a moral one.

What's to get over? The point to my posts with YOU specifically is you remind me a 3 Stooges episode where 2 of the characters were named "Duck" and "Dodge". You deflect with your every response. My suspicion is IF you COULD respond, you would. Guess you ain't as smart as you think. Letting some dumb Marine Gunnery Sergeant see right through your act.

[pete311]

What's to get over? The point to my posts with YOU specifically is you remind me a 3 Stooges episode where 2 of the characters were named "Duck" and "Dodge". You deflect with your every response. My suspicion is IF you COULD respond, you would. Guess you ain't as smart as you think. Letting some dumb Marine Gunnery Sergeant see right through your act.

Cool story bro. Still no idea what you are babbling on about.

[Gunny]

Cool story bro. Still no idea what you are babbling on about.

Because you can't read? I get called a lot of things, but not cutting to the chase ain't one of them. Why don't you go back to where you started and answer the questions you've been asked directly WITH A FUCKING DIRECT response instead of this tapdance routine? You're as obvious to everyone but you as the yellow goo in this baby's diaper.

[Black Diamond]

Because you can't read? I get called a lot of things, but not cutting to the chase ain't one of them. Why don't you go back to where you started and answer the questions you've been asked directly WITH A FUCKING DIRECT response instead of this tapdance routine? You're as obvious to everyone but you as the yellow goo in this baby's diaper.
You little maggot. What's the rule on lengthening posts? :cool:
How do you put up with these morons? Are they like green recruits?

[Gunny]

You little maggot. What's the rule on lengthening posts? :cool:
How do you put up with these morons? Are they like green recruits?

Poor people get bored too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu2ArBfwZcA

[gabosaurus]

The exciting adventures of Donald Trump's Hair!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/dec/11/the-exciting-adventures-of-president-trumps-hair-leader-of-the-free-world-and-the-moon

[Drummond]

It's not a legal issue but a moral one.

How about the 'moral' issue, then, of taking a precautionary measure - and even then, only a temporary one ! - against an enhanced chance of deadly attack ??

If your Intelligence agencies construct a list (as I'm sure they have) to take the precautionary measure of monitoring people they have a security concern about, is it 'wrong' for them to do so, on the grounds that there are 99.9% of people they DON'T apply that measure to ??

Trump's doing his best to cover what would be, after all, a Presidential duty (if / when he's elected as one) of acting in the defence of America. I'd like to know why Obama is patently falling down on the job .. ?

[Gunny]

How about the 'moral' issue, then, of taking a precautionary measure - and even then, only a temporary one ! - against an enhanced chance of deadly attack ??

If your Intelligence agencies construct a list (as I'm sure they have) to take the precautionary measure of monitoring people they have a security concern about, is it 'wrong' for them to do so, on the grounds that there are 99.9% of people they DON'T apply that measure to ??

Trump's doing his best to cover what would be, after all, a Presidential duty (if / when he's elected as one) of acting in the defence of America. I'd like to know why Obama is patently falling down on the job .. ?

Because Ali Barrackba is in that class of US citizens (I won't call them Americans) that believes WE are the enemy. They can't get it through their heads that THEY are the actual enemy, always tearing down every principle their betters have died to protect. And when THEY get done giving away THEIR rights, they're the first to whine. They cried like little babies for the government to do something and protect them after 9/11. So, they got the Patriot Act. Then they whined and cried about the solution and have politicized it to this day.

I also still contend these GOP candidates need to get a plan. Anyone that gets remotely close to Trump's numbers is immediately attacked. Identify the enemy -- the left. Clinton. O-blah-blah. Attack THEM. Think our Nation is a house divided? The GOP needs to look closer to home.

[Drummond]

The exciting adventures of Donald Trump's Hair!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/dec/11/the-exciting-adventures-of-president-trumps-hair-leader-of-the-free-world-and-the-moon

... courtesy of a Left-wing publication from what is, after all, a foreign power, Gabby ?

Here's a thought. Why not do more to promote the patriotic interests of your homeland, instead ?

[Drummond]

Here's a thought. For aiding a future enemy, namely, ISIS .. certainly for opening the door to their emergence .. why not consider Obama to be impeachable for creating that opportunity for them ? Would you now, finally, for the first time ever, like to support a suggestion for Obama's impeachment ?

.. NO ? ..

.. What a surprise ...

Hello, FJ. I'm still waiting for you to follow up on my challenge. My my, such silence, eh, when it REALLY comes down to saying something of substance which shows clear and decisive opposition to Obama, beyond an easy 'Obama Sucks' ....

How's the pseudo-Conservatism coming along ? Lacking in credibility, when it's meaningfully challenged ?

[Drummond]

Hello, FJ. I'm still waiting for you to follow up on my challenge. My my, such silence, eh, when it REALLY comes down to saying something of substance which shows clear and decisive opposition to Obama, beyond an easy 'Obama Sucks' ....

How's the pseudo-Conservatism coming along ? Lacking in credibility, when it's meaningfully challenged ?

Yet more silence from FJ, on the matter of my challenge.

I knew it. But of course.

[Gunny]

... courtesy of a Left-wing publication from what is, after all, a foreign power, Gabby ?

Here's a thought. Why not do more to promote the patriotic interests of your homeland, instead ?

She'd have to move to Russia.

[reason10]

Reported just minutes ago on the domestic BBC News channel, on our 10PM news, and which appears to be a breaking news story ... a report which says that Donald Trump has called for a total, complete ban on Muslims entering the US !

According to the report, Trump has called for this in response to large numbers of Muslims having hatred towards America.

They switched over to a report from the BBC's Washington correspondent, Nick Bryant ... who began his report by waving an A4 sheet of paper in front of the camera - which he said was a Press release from Donald Trump's HQ ... and said that when it first arrived in their Inboxes about an hour ago, it was thought to be a joke .. nobody took it seriously, thinking it was an attempt to parody Trump and couldn't be for real. But they've since confirmed that it's genuine.

'A total and complete shutdown on Muslims entering the US, until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on'. This is Bryant's quote from the Press release.

Bryant goes on to say that it's been 'condemned as racist demagoguery' by a number of groups there, not least from a number of Muslim groups in America, who've said 'We are now entering into the realms of the fascist'.

The White House has commented ... says that 'This statement is contrary to US values'.

Bryant concludes his report by saying that this type of comment from Trump usually propels him into a front-runner position in the race to the White House .. but - Bryant concludes by saying 'Many people will say this isn't the road to the White House, but this is the gutter'.

Bryant doesn't SAY who'd say that .. I get the impression that this is a bit of ad-hoc 'balanced' reporting (as balanced as it gets from the BBC) slung into the mix by Bryant's team. The report ended.

A quick disapproving scowl from Huw Edwards (anchorman for the News show) .. they sometimes don't bother to hide such things .. and he moved on to the next item.

Folks, a comment from me .. I'm impressed ! I'm sure British politicians wouldn't have the freedom to arrange such a ban, even if they were ever inclined to implement one !! I'll no doubt be learning of some White House vitriol on this one in the days to come ...

What Trump is calling for is 100 percent legal. And he doesn't need Congress's approval. He can do it all himself.

It's called 8 U.S. CODE 1182
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...II-sec1182.htm

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

[fj1200]

OK, maybe Leftie Central hasn't educated you about them.

blah, blah, blah. Let me know when you have some data on Ted Cruz and his education from "Leftie Central."

[fj1200]

I'm still waiting for you to follow up on my challenge.

Challenges are meaningless from a liar.


I knew it.

It's easy to "know" when you just make it up in your imagination.

[Drummond]

blah, blah, blah. Let me know when you have some data on Ted Cruz and his education from "Leftie Central."

??????????????????????

Well, you've already claimed to be a Thatcherite .. are you now claiming to be Ted Cruz .. !?:eek:

I'm not sure which is the more incredible ....

[Drummond]

Challenges are meaningless from a liar.

Have you got this the wrong way around (.. that attention deficit thing kicking in once more) ? I issued a challenge to you ...


It's easy to "know" when you just make it up in your imagination.

Sorry, I'm not following. Are you saying that you HAVE called for, or ever supported, any calls for Obama's impeachment on this forum ?

-- Fine. Let's see you show us how 'wrong' I've been, with an example of same ! If I'm such a 'liar', PROVE IT.

Or will you keep on dodging and weaving, instead ?

[fj1200]

??????????????????????

Perchance you could reread the thread to see where you got off track.

[jimnyc]

What Trump is calling for is 100 percent legal. And he doesn't need Congress's approval. He can do it all himself.

It's called 8 U.S. CODE 1182
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...II-sec1182.htm

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.



Interesting. And many stated even the mere thought was shitting on all that this country represents. If so, then HOW did this code get there?

[fj1200]

I issued a challenge to you ...

Don't be a liar and I might take you more seriously. It would also help if you didn't duck and run from threads when they got tough for you.

[Drummond]

Don't be a liar and I might take you more seriously. It would also help if you didn't duck and run from threads when they got tough for you.

This link exposes your latest assertion as a lie. I DID issue a challenge to you.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?52950-Trump-calls-for-Muslim-border-ban&p=785621#post785621

And your 'response' (if it could be called one) was to run from the thread, for an extended period .. exactly as I subsequently pointed out.

[fj1200]

This link exposes your latest assertion as a lie. I DID issue a challenge to you
...
And your 'response' (if it could be called one) was to run from the thread,

blah, blah, blah. You issue many ridiculous blustery sputtering challenges. I ignore them because you lie and run away. What was this thread about again? :rolleyes:

I ran from the thread? Over the weekend? :laugh: :laugh:

[Drummond]

Perchance you could reread the thread to see where you got off track.

I'm pretty sure I've remained ON track. See the thread title - I've continued to address it. Central to your current contention against me is your refusal to to acknowledge Trump is right .. this consistent with your past supportiveness towards Muslims.

[Perianne]

I love how you two continuously argue, lol.

[fj1200]

I'm pretty sure I've remained ON track.

Nope, try again.

[Drummond]

blah, blah, blah. You issue many ridiculous blustery sputtering challenges. I ignore them because you lie and run away.

Progress ! You now admit that a challenge was issued. Therefore, I have NOT lied .... though YOU did run away. Good to see that, to an extent, the running has stopped.


What was this thread about again?

Good grief. You know, if it weren't for the chronic nature of your affliction, you'd be embarrassed by its severity !

Attention-deficiency or not, I must ask you to FOCUS.

Are you sitting comfortably ?




Sure ?




Quite sure ??




.. I wouldn't want you to forget you were sitting down on a chair, now (... um ... but, then again ...) ...




TRUMP CALLS FOR MUSLIM BORDER BAN

[Drummond]

Post duplication (page took a v long time to load). IGNORE.

[Drummond]

I love how you two continuously argue, lol.

Truth be told, no more than FJ himself loves it. He probably lives for all this contention ...

[fj1200]

Progress !

I didn't say you lied here, I said you were a liar. You got off track when I posted something Cruz and you proceeded off into leftie land of imaginary musings... By way of logic you believe Cruz is a leftie.

[Gunny]

Would you two get a damned room? Seriously, I like both of you but this the 3rd thread in a week hijacked by your personal pissing contest. Others would like to post too. On the topic. Y'all can believe whatever you want and fuss n fight like an old married couple but could you contain it somewhere? Y'all have trainwrecked some good threads.

[Drummond]

... By way of logic you believe Cruz is a leftie.

This is how you keep contention alive, isn't it, FJ ... and certainly a part of why Gunny has cause for complaint.

You've just lied. End Of.

[Drummond]

Would you two get a damned room? Seriously, I like both of you but this the 3rd thread in a week hijacked by your personal pissing contest. Others would like to post too. On the topic. Y'all can believe whatever you want and fuss n fight like an old married couple but could you contain it somewhere? Y'all have trainwrecked some good threads.

Jim has already suggested the Steel Cage, I think .... which I'd be fine with. Although it wasn't too long ago that FJ received a challenge there (not from me), and when things got a little uncomfortable, he bailed ....

[Perianne]

Jim has already suggested the Steel Cage, I think .... which I'd be fine with. Although it wasn't too long ago that FJ received a challenge there (not from me), and when things got a little uncomfortable, he bailed ....

Why do you think he bailed?

[Gunny]

Why do you think he bailed?

Because arguing with a brick wall is arguing with a brick wall? That cuts BOTH ways, BTW. I wouldn't call FJ bailing. Getting bored would be more like it. Like I said, I get along with both of them and there's nothing personal here. It's all over the place though. Like a Trump thread. Everything isn't about Trump, and everything isn't about Drummond and FJ. It's all about ME, dammit. :laugh2:

[Drummond]

Why do you think he bailed?

For the same reason he often does, Perianne. There's only so much of a direct challenge that FJ can take, before it becomes painfully obvious that he's bogus. We've seen the pattern adopted in arguments ... initial pedantry, followed by mucking around with others' quotes, followed (when being very obviously bested) by insults.

When the direct challenging just continues, when none of the squirming achieves anything, he'll bail.

There's one ultimate point from all of this which stops me from giving you a complete answer. The point is that FJ could start representing himself honestly. He bails rather than doing so.

Precisely why that is .. I can only guess. It makes sense to suppose that he's following a political agenda he'll neither choose to abandon, or just maybe CANNOT abandon. I suspect the latter, and I cite FJ's refusal to criticise Obama to any really meaningful degree. My thinking is that just maybe FJ has 'comrades' who monitor his progress here, who'd not take kindly to his going too far to cover himself ... so, he ducks that situation. He COULD theoretically go 'the max' and claim total and uncompromising opposition to Obama, but ... it doesn't happen.

[Gunny]

Not to point out the obvious, but maybe he has a job? Best I can tell, he's on at lunchtime and maybe in the evening. Most employers frown on posting on their time.

[Drummond]

It's all about ME, dammit. :laugh2:

.... We are not worthy .... :bow2::bow2:
I characterise FJ's hapless spats with me as rather like .... :shark:

If he didn't bail when things got too hot, it'd be more like .... :whammer:

[Drummond]

Not to point out the obvious, but maybe he has a job? Best I can tell, he's on at lunchtime and maybe in the evening. Most employers frown on posting on their time.

Perhaps.

Though, an excuse FJ gave for not replying to my recent challenge to him was that a weekend intervened ! I suppose he might be a weekend worker (maybe moonlighting as a security guard somewhere ?) .. though as excuses go, on the face of it, it seems flimsy.

[Gunny]

Perhaps.

Though, an excuse FJ gave for not replying to my recent challenge to him was that a weekend intervened ! I suppose he might be a weekend worker (maybe moonlighting as a security guard somewhere ?) .. though as excuses go, on the face of it, it seems flimsy.

Just because we old guys don't have a life doesn't mean the young 'uns don't. Best I can tell, FJ's quite a few years younger than us. And I could be wrong but I don't recall him being around on weekends. If you were looking for me on Friday or Saturday night before 2010, good luck. Better come look in the bar. I was usually on for about 20 minutes before work, and after I came home, took a nap, worked out I'd be on from basically 8-10 or 11.

Then there're these NFL freaks. This place is a ghost town on Sunday during football season.

You have to look at people's posting patterns. I hated being accused of bailing when "bailing" consisted of climbing 8 foot ladders carrying 20 pounds of tools all day in 100 degree weather.

And, if he's like me, I don't remember what thread I was posting in yesterday. If you don't draw attention to it and it falls out of the top 10 over a coffee or poetry thread, I won't remember it happened. Especially if it's the same argument with the same person thread after thread. I currently have NO idea how many Trump threads I've posted in. They're all the same.

Same goes with you and FJ. You two get into a pissing contest and everyone else are the ones who bail. We don't want to be in the middle of the crap, nor take sides. My personal take I've said before ... you take this personally and FJ is just messing with you. You don't wrestle in the mud with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it. You're playing HIS game.

[fj1200]

You've just lied. End Of.

:confused: Extending your logic is not a lie.


... which I'd be fine with. ...

:laugh: You're incapable.


Why do you think he bailed?

:checkswatch:


For the same reason he often does...

:checkswatch:

[Drummond]

:confused: Extending your logic is not a lie.



:laugh: You're incapable.


:checkswatch:


:checkswatch:

You checked your watch twice in a minute ??

That attention deficit disorder is REALLY becoming quite a problem !

Suggest it might help if you take more water with it ....... :alcoholic::alcoholic::wine:

[fj1200]

You checked your watch twice in a minute ??

I was checking my broken watch and discovered that it too is right more often than you two. I was also trying to find out where I supposedly bailed. :dunno:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Interesting. And many stated even the mere thought was shitting on all that this country represents. If so, then HOW did this code get there?

That lie and cry comes from libs, leftists, socialists dems , media , ignorant Hollywood celebrity types, OBAMA AND HIS MINIONS and those assorted maggots!
Trump has great advisers and already knew he could do that..
Too many people repeating too many damn media hyped lies and carrying the water for the dems to attack our strongest candidate! Even people on our side doing that.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

I was checking my broken watch and discovered that it too is right more often than you two. I was also trying to find out where I supposedly bailed. :dunno:

You checked a BROKEN watch ? :laugh:

... It gets worse. You're rechecking a BROKEN watch repeatedly ? :eek::eek:

When did you first discover it was broken ? This time last month ?:uhoh:

Seek help, my son. Try not to forget to.

[Gunny]

You checked a BROKEN watch ? :laugh:

... It gets worse. You're rechecking a BROKEN watch repeatedly ? :eek::eek:

When did you first discover it was broken ? This time last month ?:uhoh:

Seek help, my son. Try not to forget to.

I think he kind of threw back in your face the "ran away" accusation; which personally, I hate. He was on, you weren't. You're on and he isn't. I don't know what anyone's deal is, I just look at what I see. I've been accused of running off when the fact is, I had stuff to take care of in the real world. Recently it's been when baby needs a diaper change, ba-ba and some attention, I ain't got time for this place. She thinks y'all suck and wants Elmo on the screen.

And I'm not defending anyone. I just hate the "you ran off" accusation and always have. Honestly, when you and FJ get into it, I quit reading.

[fj1200]

You checked a BROKEN watch ?

I don't wear a watch.


Honestly, when you and FJ get into it, I quit reading.

Gunny the voice of reason. :eek: