Obama Orders Return of Tracked Vehicles

[Elessar]

Can this guy be even more idiotic?

The surplus vehicles give LE quite a tactical advantage.

http://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/police-peeved-obama-order-return-surplus-tanks

[Gunny]

Can this guy be even more idiotic?

The surplus vehicles give LE quite a tactical advantage.

http://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/police-peeved-obama-order-return-surplus-tanks

I'd tell him :fu: Sanctuary cities do.

[revelarts]

...

http://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/police-peeved-obama-order-return-surplus-tanks



Well at least Obama has done something right during his time.

sheesh lousie.
the over militarization of the police is something that many here have been concerned about.
lets not turn this move into a "obama said the sun gives earth light so that must be wrong" situation.
violent crime is down nation wide. and police do not need military vehicles to write tickets or stop the local drug dealer.
All that heavy equipment is overkill.

The only thing it's really good for is killing citizen mobs and the citizen militia. And neither is the police's job.

[Gunny]

Well at least Obama has done something right during his time.

sheesh lousie.
the over militarization of the police is something that many here have been concerned about.
lets not turn this move into a "obama said the sun gives earth light so that must be wrong" situation.
violent crime is down nation wide. and police do not need military vehicles to write tickets or stop the local drug dealer.
All that heavy equipment is overkill.

The only thing it's really good for is killing citizen mobs and the citizen militia. And neither is the police's job.

You mean giving the police the ability to combat criminals on an even footing? :laugh: You probably think they should go back to 1963 Chryslers and 6 shot .38 specials. :rolleyes:

Get real.

[Drummond]

Well at least Obama has done something right during his time.

sheesh lousie.
the over militarization of the police is something that many here have been concerned about.
lets not turn this move into a "obama said the sun gives earth light so that must be wrong" situation.
violent crime is down nation wide. and police do not need military vehicles to write tickets or stop the local drug dealer.
All that heavy equipment is overkill.

The only thing it's really good for is killing citizen mobs and the citizen militia. And neither is the police's job.

Disempowerment. It's a favourite game of the Left.

Gun control ... an obsession of theirs, which they WILL NOT give up on, EVER. Now, if I read this correctly, the police, too, are to have their resource-capability downscaled ??

What's next ... copying the British model of ensuring that the police don't even carry any weapons at all ?

The direction SHOULD be to EMPOWER the police !!:boom2:

... Unbelievable .... :bang3::bang3:

[Gunny]

Disempowerment. It's a favourite game of the Left.

Gun control ... an obsession of theirs, which they WILL NOT give up on, EVER. Now, if I read this correctly, the police, too, is to have their resource-capability downscaled ??

What's next ... copying the British model of ensuring that the police don't even carry any weapons at all ?

The direction SHOULD be to EMPOWER the police !!

But THAT is what this is all about. The Senate shot down 2 separate gun control bills and O-blah-blah-s having one of his "kid didn't get his way" tantrums.

[Drummond]

But THAT is what this is all about. The Senate shot down 2 separate gun control bills and O-blah-blah-s having one of his "kid didn't get his way" tantrums.

Typical Leftie control-freak madness. Wield control .. for its own sake. Any resemblance to ever actually doing something GOOD for anyone out of it is a purely coincidental by-product ...

[Gunny]

Typical Leftie control-freak madness. Wield control .. for its own sake. Any resemblance to ever actually doing something GOOD for anyone out of it is a purely coincidental by-product ...

What do you suppose the bodycount would be if those people in that "gun free zone" were packing? I bet nowhere close to 14 dead and 17 wounded.

[LongTermGuy]

Disempowerment. It's a favourite game of the Left.

Gun control ... an obsession of theirs, which they WILL NOT give up on, EVER. Now, if I read this correctly, the police, too, are to have their resource-capability downscaled ??

What's next ... copying the British model of ensuring that the police don't even carry any weapons at all ?

The direction SHOULD be to EMPOWER the police !!:boom2:

... Unbelievable .... :bang3::bang3:


http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/treason3.jpg

[Gunny]

http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/treason3.jpg

Guess you and I are the only two losers that have nothing to do on a Saturday night.:laugh:

[Bilgerat]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12342454_10156536704675508_5365496612334854773_n.j pg?oh=51d460acabf5675f86c4622da8ba35e0&oe=56EB5075

[Elessar]

Well at least Obama has done something right during his time.

sheesh lousie.
the over militarization of the police is something that many here have been concerned about.
lets not turn this move into a "obama said the sun gives earth light so that must be wrong" situation.
violent crime is down nation wide. and police do not need military vehicles to write tickets or stop the local drug dealer.
All that heavy equipment is overkill.

The only thing it's really good for is killing citizen mobs and the citizen militia. And neither is the police's job.

That is all preposterous. I guess San Bernadino was not violent crime most recently.

Whose job is it to set down mobs? Tell us 'expert'! Martial law would have
to be declared, or else the National Guard turned out with the same damn vehicle types.

It protects the responders including police, fire and medical.

It gives them a way to shield innocents.

How one-way blind can you be? Often the
damn criminals out-gun the first LE on scene.

Again, you do not know what you are talking about on
issues like this.

Now I anticipate another endless stream of Cut and Paste opinions
written by others. Such is your style.

[Black Diamond]

That is all preposterous. I guess San Bernadino was not violent crime most recently.

Whose job is it to set down mobs? Tell us 'expert'! Martial law would have
to be declared, or else the National Guard turned out with the same damn vehicle types.

It protects the responders including police, fire and medical.

It gives them a way to shield innocents.

How one-way blind can you be? Often the
damn criminals out-gun the first LE on scene.

Again, you do not know what you are talking about on
issues like this.

Now I anticipate another endless stream of Cut and Paste opinions
written by others. Such is your style.

And/or videos

[fj1200]

Can this guy be even more idiotic?

The surplus vehicles give LE quite a tactical advantage.

http://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/police-peeved-obama-order-return-surplus-tanks

Yes. A tactical advantage in the coming Obama police state. Or so I've heard in other threads. :dunno:

[revelarts]

You mean giving the police the ability to combat criminals on an even footing? :laugh: You probably think they should go back to 1963 Chryslers and 6 shot .38 specials. :rolleyes:

Get real.
Is anyone saying they should go back to 38s?
Is an Amoured vehicle with a gun turret = to 38 special?
you get real. the U.S. isn't Mayberry but it isn't a war zone either.


Are your thinking it's use is for drug dealers most of whom have handguns, shotguns and maybe some AKs and the like? teenage gangs?
how many drug based military level fire fights have you seen on the news? give me 3 n the whole U.S..
they need armored vehicles and bazookas for that?

or do they need it for shoplifters, wife beaters, pedophiles, speeders, homeless, car accidents, hit and runs, home buglers, rapist, trespassers, kidnappers, professional commercial thieves, jaywalkers, protesters, bar fights, drunks, kids smoking weed or directing traffic?

there's no need for military grade weapons and vehicles unless you're an invading or occupying army.
swat teams sit on their butts most of the year in most cities or make up BS to do just to keep busy and often used more force than needed in that make work.

military grade vehicles in civilian police work is just bad policy gunny.

[Gunny]

Is anyone saying they should go back to 38s?
Is an Amoured vehicle with a gun turret = to 38 special?
you get real. the U.S. isn't Mayberry but it isn't a war zone either.


Are your thinking it's use is for drug dealers most of whom have handguns, shotguns and maybe some AKs and the like? teenage gangs?
how many drug based military level fire fights have you seen on the news? give me 3 n the whole U.S..
they need armored vehicles and bazookas for that?

or do they need it for shoplifters, wife beaters, pedophiles, speeders, homeless, car accidents, hit and runs, home buglers, rapist, trespassers, kidnappers, professional commercial thieves, jaywalkers, protesters, bar fights, drunks, kids smoking weed or directing traffic?

there's no need for military grade weapons and vehicles unless you're an invading or occupying army.
swat teams sit on their butts most of the year in most cities or make up BS to do just to keep busy and often used more force than needed in that make work.

military grade vehicles in civilian police work is just bad policy gunny.

Watch the news lately? Get this straight: I don't like cops nor do I trust them. They serve a purpose. They can't serve that purpose with a President who is biased against them and disempowering them. If you got twin .50s I don't want to engage you with a Red Ryder BB gun.

You can't deploy the military within the US so what's your answer to two idiots with AKs and thousands of rounds? Throw rocks at them? When the criminals have better weaponry than the police, just who do you think is going to win? I think we saw the answer to THAT in LA about 20 years ago when two bank robbers with body armor and tactical weapons shot up half the LAPD.

[revelarts]

That is all preposterous. I guess San Bernadino was not violent crime most recently.
Whose job is it to set down mobs? Tell us 'expert'! Martial law would have
to be declared, or else the National Guard turned out with the same damn vehicle types.
It protects the responders including police, fire and medical.
It gives them a way to shield innocents.
How one-way blind can you be? Often the
damn criminals out-gun the first LE on scene.
Again, you do not know what you are talking about on
issues like this.
Now I anticipate another endless stream of Cut and Paste opinions
written by others. Such is your style.

you call me "an expert" and say i don't know what i'm talking about but then you don't want to look at any facts I'd post from experts either..
Why just Because you already know it all.? Or you'd rather not be aware of any facts that might challenge your position based on reality?

Look if you can backup your fears then do so.

but as mentioned in other threads police deaths are DOWN have been in decline since the late 70's
the military armor and Weapons are BS.
let the Nat guard use it. not the local police. period.

doesn't take a rocket scientist Elesar.


Number of police nation wide killed by gunfire 2014 = 47
Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2014 (http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2014?ref=sidebar)

Nationally the number of police killed this year by ALL means is 115.
sine the 1974 the number of police deaths Nationally has been at a high of 280 (1974) declining steadily since then to avg about 100 per year.
National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Officer Deaths by Year (http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html)

Now if you take in to account the population RISE in that time you can see an how much safer and LESS violent the nation has become.
Population in 1974 =213 million
population in 2013 =316 million
so we have 100+million more people but apx 100 less police deaths...from ALL causes.

[revelarts]

http://eaglenewspapers.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2014/08/27/668F9DEB-72B3-4EA3-9261-38F10EC44C8D_t670.jpg?b3f6a5d7692ccc373d56e40cf708 e3fa67d9af9d

[Elessar]

You can't deploy the military within the US so what's your answer to two idiots with AKs and thousands of rounds? Throw rocks at them? When the criminals have better weaponry than the police, just who do you think is going to win? I think we saw the answer to THAT in LA about 20 years ago when two bank robbers with body armor and tactical weapons shot up half the LAPD.

I was in LA - Long Beach then and recall it vividly. The 9mm and 38's were useless there so the cops went to a close gun
dealer and brought out better firepower.

[Elessar]

you call me "an expert" and say i don't know what i'm talking about but then you don't want to look at any facts I'd post from experts either..
Why just Because you already know it all.? Or you'd rather not be aware of any facts that might challenge your position based on reality?

Look if you can backup your fears then do so.

but as mentioned in other threads police deaths are DOWN have been in decline since the late 70's
the military armor and Weapons are BS.
let the Nat guard use it. not the local police. period.

doesn't take a rocket scientist Elesar.

Well you come across as an expert, but have no practical sense.
The vehicles serve a purpose for first responders more immediately
than having to wait for the National Guard to be mustered.

Remember the LA Riots? Violence was rampant and the cops were
hard pressed. It took hours for the Guard to be mustered and use their
tactical vehicles.

It does not take a nuclear physicist to figure that out, Rev.

[Gunny]

I was in LA - Long Beach then and recall it vividly. The 9mm and 38's were useless there so the cops went to a close gun
dealer and brought out better firepower.

I was lucky. IIRC, I was on Drill Instructor duty. Give or take a few years I would have been with I MEF and been deployed. THAT lasted a DAY. Apparently Marines don't make good cops. :laugh:

[Elessar]

I was lucky. IIRC, I was on Drill Instructor duty. Give or take a few years I would have been with I MEF and been deployed. THAT lasted a DAY. Apparently Marines don't make good cops. :laugh:

Generally speaking, they might be too good!:laugh:

[Gunny]

Generally speaking, they might be too good!:laugh:

I think it came to an end when LAPD said "cover us" and the Marines laid down covering fire. :laugh: They got sent back to base. :laugh:

[revelarts]

Well you come across as an expert, but have no practical sense.
The vehicles serve a purpose for first responders more immediately
than having to wait for the National Guard to be mustered.
Remember the LA Riots? Violence was rampant and the cops were
hard pressed. It took hours for the Guard to be mustered and use their
tactical vehicles.
It does not take a nuclear physicist to figure that out, Rev.

the LA riots yeah what 20 years ago or something..1992. still one of the worse riots in the country. hasn't been a year there like it since.
Hard pressed. yes they were. But to my knowledge i don't think any police were killed.
Like 70 "civilians" died.

Look if you want to argue that LA needs it. Or NewYork needs it. Or Chicago needs it... every 20 years or so... then OK maybe you've got a point. If it's packed in the warehouse taken out twice a year to practice in those cities, I might be able to go with you there.

but 99.9% of America, and the policing does not need it and it's a NEGATIVE effect on policing and the communities.
Police are public servant not marines looking for the enemy.

[revelarts]

Cops show up at a domestic dispute with and armor vehicle and sniper weapons for a guy in his home. He owned a hand gun on the stairs 10 feet away as he talked to cops for 40 minutes..
shoot the man dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6Gb1o9YO8uc



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NAjljP5t-kM/UT3ZZTVquuI/AAAAAAAADPM/bmfhva6aWKg/s1600/police.jpg

[revelarts]

American Police Continue To MIlitarize Despite Record Low Crime Rates (http://www.mintpressnews.com/americans-police-continue-to-militarize-despite-record-low-crime-rates/192029/)



Though it seems like at least one gun-related death is in the news every day, a study published by Pew Research Center in May 2013 found that the national rates of gun homicide and other violent gun crimes have actually decreased since the mid-1990s — a surprising statistic, considering 56 percent of Americans think gun crime is higher now than it was 20 years ago.

In their analysis of violent gun crimes throughout the past 50 years, Pew researchers found that gun rates rose in the 1960s, further surged in the 1970s, and peaked in the 1980s and early 1990s. Then, rates started declining.

When the study was conducted last year, the rate of firearm homicides was down 49 percent from 1993, putting the rate of gun-related crimes in the United States closer to levels last seen in the 1960s.....

[Elessar]

but 99.9% of America, and the policing does not need it and it's a NEGATIVE effect on policing and the communities.
Police are public servant not marines looking for the enemy.

The greatest value of tactical vehicles is it protects the responders, whether they be
LE, Fire, or Medical. Plus trying to shield and evacuate innocents! I do not think
a Bradly Fighting Machine is appropriate, but the armor and power of the tracked
vehicles cannot be denied. They are rarely intended to be used as an assault platform
unless it has to break down barriers.

There is NO negative effect! They are not trotted out for simple incidents. You overblow
that point. LE rules of engagement are quite clear. Incident Command will determine if
they are needed, not some patrol officer. The only negative is by whiners who do not
understand the purpose for having them in the lot, but if they were in jeopardy they would
be the first to cry about lack of protection. That is how whiners behave.

It can take hours to summon the Guard. They do not just sit in the Armory waiting for
something to happen. Most have jobs they would need to abandon to report for duty.

And your cut and paste does not even mention that surplus helicopters are taken up
by Fire Departments. CALFire (State) uses surplus UH-1's for rescues, MEDEVAC's, searches,
as well as firefighting.

That's not rocket science, Rev.

[revelarts]

Florida Cops Use Tank For Routine Traffic Stop, Assault Man For Flipping Them Off
http://truthvoice.com/2015/04/florida-cops-use-tank-for-routine-traffic-stop-assault-man-for-flipping-them-off/

Refusal To Put Child On Psych Drugs Results In Swat Teams and a TANK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IGZOGmsQc4

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

[Elessar]

Florida Cops Use Tank For Routine Traffic Stop, Assault Man For Flipping Them Off
http://truthvoice.com/2015/04/florida-cops-use-tank-for-routine-traffic-stop-assault-man-for-flipping-them-off/

If that is a TANK, then I am a Tibetan Aviator.

Refusal To Put Child On Psych Drugs Results In Swat Teams and a TANK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IGZOGmsQc4

Again, if that is a TANK. then I am a Tibetan Aviator.

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

Cut and paste the best you can do?

This is a TANK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#/media/File:DF-SC-82-07237.jpg

[revelarts]

Cut and paste the best you can do?

This is a TANK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#/media/File:DF-SC-82-07237.jpg
I could just make up stuff, and assert i'm right as you have with little to nothing to back it up but personal memories, attitude and strong partisan feelings.
It seems some folks like real info to help come to opinions on issues from time to time.
Love it that you folks don't like to reference the rest of reality, just what you like to see of it i guess.

And um Elessar? are you 'cutting and pasting' tank info from wikipedia?

[Elessar]

And um Elessar? are you 'cutting and pasting' tank info from wikipedia?
Well..where the hell else would I find it?:laugh:

You lost that one...just as your cut and paste of TANKS was incorrect.

Here are TANKS: Maybe you should educate your esteemed sources on the difference
between a Tank and an APC or MRAP.

http://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/search?geo=&prt=cr&o=apn10506&ctype=pictures&chn=&ver=&tpr=5&q=Battle+Tanks&ots=1449528416111

[Gunny]

Well..where the hell else would I find it?:laugh:

You lost that one...just as your cut and paste of TANKS was incorrect.

Here are TANKS: Maybe you should educate your esteemed sources on the difference
between a Tank and an APC or MRAP.

http://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/search?geo=&prt=cr&o=apn10506&ctype=pictures&chn=&ver=&tpr=5&q=Battle+Tanks&ots=1449528416111

That HAD to hurt. Where's that band aid emoticon? :laugh:

[Elessar]

That HAD to hurt. Where's that band aid emoticon? :laugh:

Me: Grins!:laugh: