Russia Deploys Missile Cruiser, Suspends Military Cooperation With Turkey....

[LongTermGuy]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/t/g/7673717b62.jpg
"Tensions are already on the rise between Russia and Turkey following the downing of an Su-24 (http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-su-24-jet-turkey-video/) bomber by Turkish F-16s on Tuesday"

`Russia sends in the “Moskva” missile cruiser`

`In addition to the suspension of cooperation, Russia is sending its Moskva missile cruiser closer to both the Turkish and Syrian coasts....."

​http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-deploys-missile-cruiser-turkey/

[Balu]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/t/g/7673717b62.jpg
"Tensions are already on the rise between Russia and Turkey following the downing of an Su-24 (http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-su-24-jet-turkey-video/) bomber by Turkish F-16s on Tuesday"

`Russia sends in the “Moskva” missile cruiser`

`In addition to the suspension of cooperation, Russia is sending its Moskva missile cruiser closer to both the Turkish and Syrian coasts....."

​http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-deploys-missile-cruiser-turkey/

Obama defends Turkey’s right to defend its airspace.
Good!
Syria has а right to defend its airspace and, as it was said by Russian Ministry of defense, the "Moskva" missile cruiser will immediately destroy ANY air target over Syria, which will be classified by us or Syrian government as unauthorized or dangerous.
Besides, all the bombers will be escorted by our fighters with their prescribed combat tasks. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

I would remind, that Su-24 never crossed the Syrian-Turkish boarder which is kept open from Turkish side for ISIS crude oil export to EU and USA and international terrorists, who a arriving to Syria via Turkey. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

[jimnyc]

Obama defends Turkey’s right to defend its airspace.


Good!
Syria has а right to defend its airspace and, as it was said by Russian Ministry of defense, the "Moskva" missile cruiser will immediately destroy ANY air target over Syria, which will be classified by us or Syrian government as unauthorized or dangerous.
Besides, all the bombers will be escorted by our fighters with their prescribed combat tasks. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

I would remind, that Su-24 never crossed the Syrian-Turkish boarder which is kept open from Turkish side for ISIS crude oil export to EU and USA and international terrorists, who a arriving to Syria via Turkey. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

It appears that they did cross the border, but then were back in short time, and were shot down in Syrian territory. I don't think they should have shot the plane down. Turkey screwed up. I don't think it would be wise to shoot at any USA aircraft should that opportunity arise though.

What do you think, Balue - how do you think Russia handles this going forward? Do you think there will be any retaliation?

[Balu]

It appears that they did cross the border, but then were back in short time, and were shot down in Syrian territory. I don't think they should have shot the plane down. Turkey screwed up. I don't think it would be wise to shoot at any USA aircraft should that opportunity arise though.

What do you think, Balue - how do you think Russia handles this going forward? Do you think there will be any retaliation?
I think it was not wise to create any coalition and bombing territory of Syria without a UN Security Council resolution or an agreement with the Government of Syria. Their presence at Syrian airspace is illegal in terms of International Law and in strict accordance with your President words.
We've done our best. We warned. The jokes are over. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

[jimnyc]

I think it was not wise to create any coalition and bombing territory of Syria without a UN Security Council resolution or an agreement with the Government of Syria. Their presence at Syrian airspace is illegal in terms of International Law and in strict accordance with your President words.
We've done our best. We warned. The jokes are over. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

This was Turkey who went after one of your planes - not the USA. I wasn't asking about legality at this point, just asking what you thought Russia's response would be to what happened thus far.

No offense, Russian forces couldn't avoid or prevent being shot down by Turkish forces. The few jets that Russia has over there would be annihilated by the USA - IF it ever came to that, which I don't ever see happening. And stop being so defensive dummy, even the USA leaders have stated that as per heat signatures, the jet was clearly in Syrian airspace.

That old military hardware is awesome against Syria/ISIS, but wouldn't be a match against our superior hardware AND much, much higher numbers in hardware as well.

Either way, doesn't matter - as again, my question was about how you thought Russia may respond to the Turkish aggression, not perceived aggression that may or may not happen sometime in the future. :)

[Balu]

Russian Ambassador to France Alexander Orlov confirmed that one of the pilots of the Russian Su-24M, downed by a Turkish F-16 over the territory of Syria, is alive and is at the disposal of the President of the Arab Republic Bashar al-Assad army.

[jimnyc]

Russian Ambassador to France Alexander Orlov confirmed that one of the pilots of the Russian Su-24M, downed by a Turkish F-16 over the territory of Syria, is alive and is at the disposal of the President of the Arab Republic Bashar al-Assad army.

That's good news if true. I saw one dead with my own eyes, unfortunately. :( I also saw the missile take out a helo yesterday. :(

I don't think war and revenge against Turkey would be wise right now, but I'll bet that's the end of diplomatic relations between the 2 for quite some time!

[Balu]

That old military hardware is awesome against Syria/ISIS, but wouldn't be a match against our superior hardware AND much, much higher numbers in hardware as well.
I don't want to offend you, but only put you from the Heavens to the Earth.
Do you remember what happened with USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) in the Black Sea in 2014?

[jimnyc]

I don't want to offend you, but only put you from the Heavens to the Earth.
Do you remember what happened with USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) in the Black Sea in 2014?

Yes, you've stated this several times already. That hardly means that Russia is superior. Almost at every level of our military do we have superior hardware. Shall we compare total numbers again? First, just a little about about the air force:

We have early 14,000 total aircraft to Russia having less than 4,000. We have 6,100 attack helos to Russia just having 1,100. We have about 5,000 fighter aircraft to about 2,000 for Russia. 20 aircraft carriers to one, maybe 2? 72 to 55 submarines. 62 to 12 destroyers.

And our budget, what we spend to be the strongest in the world, is over like $500 billion to about 1/10th of that by Russia.

So you think a couple of planes could just turn off our military, huh? LOL I love you, Balu, but we simply have superior numbers, BY FAR.

[Balu]

So you think a couple of planes could just turn off our military, huh? LOL I love you, Balu, but we simply have superior numbers, BY FAR.
I would recommend you to read carefully our latest Military Doctrine. It is available in inet.

[jimnyc]

I don't want to offend you, but only put you from the Heavens to the Earth.
Do you remember what happened with USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) in the Black Sea in 2014?

I suppose you'll swear by Russian media

Navy Responds To Claim Ship Was Scared Off By Russian Jets With Video (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/navy-responds-to-claim-ship-was-scared-off-by-russian-j-1708178476)

Media outlets in Russia began crowing last week about an incident in the Black Sea, off the coast of the contested Crimean Peninsula. Russian fighters buzzed an American destroyer, sending it running scared after it entered Russian waters, they said. But the US Navy just verbally struck back, with video of the encounter.

The story seemed fairly outlandish when it first came out, with Russia claiming its Su-24 Fencers had actually even come close to making the USS Ross, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, feel threatened. Nor did it sound likely to us that the Ross would act provocatively or enter Russian waters while operating in the Black Sea after leaving the Romanian port of Costanta, something US Navy ships have done for years now.

But today, the US Navy released the video below, which shows a Russian Navy Su-24 Fencer, many of which have been posted on the Crimean Peninsula for decades, making a low pass abreast the USS Ross.

This is hardly something that the Ross could not defend against. Quite the contrary actually.

But Russian state media outlet Sputnik quoted an unnamed source in “Crimea’s security forces” saying that really, it was the Americans being the bullies:

The ship’s crew acted provocatively and aggressively, which caused alarm among operators of monitoring stations and Black Sea Fleet ships carrying out assignments in the Black Sea. Scrambled Su-24 attack jets demonstrated a readiness to forcibly suppress border violations and defend the country’s interest.

It seems that the Americans did not forget the April 2014 incident when one Su-24 actually shut down all equipment on the new USS Donald Cook American destroyer with anti-missile system elements.

The “source” is referencing a highly questionable electronic attack event and flyby that took place against another US Navy surface combatant, the USS Donald Cook, that was operating in the Black Sea last year during the opening stages of Russia’s Ukraine campaign.

Is an Su-24 a threat? Sure it is, in that they can carry some fairly wicked anti-ship missiles. But these attacks occur at standoff ranges, not within visual range. If anything, the Russian jet’s offering of free target practice was good training for the Ross’s crew, and passes like this one occur in international waters fairly regularly. And many of those, too, can carry anti-ship missiles like the Su-24.

And just as well, no electronic warfare or jamming was reported during the event. The full US Navy statement goes as such:

USS Ross (DDG 71) observes the flight by a Russian SU 24 aircraft while both were operating in international waters and airspace. Ross continued on her mission after observing the aircraft return to base. At no time did Ross act aggressively nor did she deviate from her planned operations. The conduct of her crew has been and continues to be professional. Ross’ Sailors observed that the SU 24 carried no weapons – wings were “clean.” The U.S. Navy operates ships in the Black Sea on a routine basis, consistent with the Montreux Convention and International Law.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/navy-responds-to-claim-ship-was-scared-off-by-russian-j-1708178476

[jimnyc]

I would recommend you to read carefully our latest Military Doctrine. It is available in inet.

Why in the world would I want to read that?

[Balu]

Why in the world would I want to read that?
To be aware and not to be in the world of your illusions.

[Balu]

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that anti-aircraft missile system S-400 will be transferred to Syria.

[jimnyc]

To be aware and not to be in the world of your illusions.

I posted pure numbers of military hardware. Are they wrong? Is reading what you speak of going to show me different numbers, and that Russia somehow has more now? If so, post the link!

[jimnyc]

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that anti-aircraft missile system S-400 will be transferred to Syria.

As they should! Who can blame them at this point.

Tell me more about the SU-24 plane. I really don't know a ton about it. Why can it not defend itself? Is it a bomber and not a fighter? Does it carry any fighter ordinances, just bombs?

[Balu]

As they should! Who can blame them at this point.
Why can it not defend itself? Is it a bomber and not a fighter? Does it carry any fighter ordinances, just bombs?
It is a bomber, not a fighter. Its targets and armament are for the surface targets only.

[Balu]

I posted pure numbers of military hardware. Are they wrong? Is reading what you speak of going to show me different numbers, and that Russia somehow has more now? If so, post the link!
It mens nothing as well as the expenditure for its manufacturing when they can be easily neutralized even before take off or launch and became useless without target aiming abilities.
I would not like to tell you (as an example) about the vulnerability of your notorious Abrams, not to disappoint you by bell, book and candle.

[jimnyc]

It mens nothing as well as the expenditure for its manufacturing when they can be easily neutralized even before take off or launch and became useless without target aiming abilities.
I would not like to tell you (as an example) about the vulnerability of your notorious Abrams, not to disappoint you by bell, book and candle.

So I guess you guys just fly by a few times, disable all of our electricity, and our military is then neutralized? :beer:

[Balu]

So I guess you guys just fly by a few times, disable all of our electricity, and our military is then neutralized? :beer:

You reprimanded me that I talked several times about your destroyer in the Black Sea. Judging by your post that you did not understand the meaning of what I said. But this is only one example of possible neutralization.
Don't ask me to come into details. I won't.

[Drummond]

Balu, do I understand from your posting that you're strongly in favour of Russian domination (allied to Assad's own forces, no doubt) of Syrian airspace against any and all other forces which may arrive ?

Are you aware that the UN has given its approval for other nations to take their own chosen actions against ISIS ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/world/europe/un-security-council-approves-resolution-urging-countries-to-combat-islamic-state.html?_r=0


The United Nations Security Council on Friday adopted a resolution, drafted by France, calling on countries around the world to take “all necessary measures” to fight the Islamic State.

The 15-to-0 vote came a week after the terrorist attacks in Paris, for which the Islamic State claimed responsibility, and just hours after the deadly siege of a hotel in Bamako, the capital of Mali, by Islamic militants.

The French ambassador, François Delattre, told the Security Council after the vote that the resolution “recognizes the exceptional nature of the Daesh threat,” using an Arabic acronym for the group.

Russia voted for the measure, which signalled a rare diplomatic convergence. For four years, Russia and the West have sparred over the war in Syria, with the Kremlin staunchly backing the government and Western powers backing the opposition.

No doubt Russia will fight to control that process, of course, since domination appears to matter to it so much. Domination may, indeed, have explained its interest in indulging an incursion, illegitimately, into NATO airspace over Turkey's territory.

Balu, are you able to give us any clue as to Russia's long-term plans for this region ? To what extent, and in what ways, do they seek to gain geopolitical advantages out of all of this ?

But can I say, by the way ... did I read that correctly ? The Russian ambassador to France's name is actually Alexander Orlov ?? THIS IS PRICELESS ! Purely by coincidence, we in the UK have - for several years - been running a whole series of spoof adverts designed to promote the insurance comparison site 'Compare the Market dot com' where the 'meerkat' puppet was called ... Alexandr Orlov !!!

We in the UK have been, it so happens, laughing at that name for years ...

Here, Balu .. enjoy ... !! ... :laugh2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s18qXURoNH0

Here's a favourite link ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9qNEIV2sw&index=9&list=PLRfEQAlSINBWQIbx4sPekYSeKyhrCqPP8

... or ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=75VpOGcotlU

... or ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NcGfIeO6usM

These 'Alexandr Orlov' Meerkat spoof ads have been running for a long time .. over 50 must have been screened in the UK by now ...:laugh2:

[aboutime]

You reprimanded me that I talked several times about your destroyer in the Black Sea. Judging by your post that you did not understand the meaning of what I said. But this is only one example of possible neutralization.
Don't ask me to come into details. I won't.


Balu. If you are looking for justification for the actions of the Blundering Russian pilots you, and Putin are so proud of. Perhaps you'd like to use Honest Historic events...such as the SHOOTING DOWN of a Korean Air Liner with more than 200 civilians onboard????

Bet you were really proud of that too? Huh?