`donald trump: I would ‘strongly consider’ shutting down mosques if necessary`

[LongTermGuy]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3280630/thumbs/o-DONALD-TRUMP-570.jpg

Donald isn't afraid...and has no worries about appeasement and "PC":cool:

`Monday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Republican presidential candidate Donald <nobr>Trump (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/16/donald-trump-i-would-strongly-consider-shutting-down-mosques-if-necessary/#)</nobr>was asked if he would be willing to shut down mosques, he said that would be something he would consider.
MSNBC’s Chris Jansing asked, “Is there something that you would do here in the homeland that you think is not being done now to protect United States citizens?”
Trump replied, “Well, you’re going to have to watch and study the mosques because a lot of talk is going on at the mosques. And from what I heard in the old days, meaning a while ago, we had great surveillance going on in and around mosques in New York City, and I understand our mayor totally cut that out. He totally cut it out. I don’t know if you’ve brought that up and I’m not sure it’s a fact. But I heard that under the old <nobr>regime (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/16/donald-trump-i-would-strongly-consider-shutting-down-mosques-if-necessary/#)</nobr>, we had tremendous surveillance going on in and around the mosques of New York City. And that’s been totally cut out.”`
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/16/donald-trump-i-would-strongly-consider-shutting-down-mosques-if-necessary/

[glockmail]

Good move. There should be a national law that no municipality can have an Islamic population greater than 1%. Let's trade our Muslims for Christians being persecuted in the MidEast.

[Jeff]

Good move. There should be a national law that no municipality can have an Islamic population greater than 1%. Let's trade our Muslims for Christians being persecuted in the MidEast.

The Hell with a trade. Lets just go take what is ours and get rid of the trash.

[fj1200]

Donald isn't afraid...and has no worries about appeasement and "PC":cool:

Do you think he cares about the Constitution? How do you think he feels about internment camps?


Good move. There should be a national law that no municipality can have an Islamic population greater than 1%. Let's trade our Muslims for Christians being persecuted in the MidEast.

That seems to run afoul of our founding documents.

But it's probably good to trade one POTUS who sucks and craps on the Constitution with another that sucks and craps on the Constitution.

[gabosaurus]

Once again, Donald Trump behaves like a clown, pandering to any fool who will listen to him.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If Trump wants to shut down all mosques, I want all Catholic priests arrested. To protect our children from pedophilia.

Also, if we are going to trash the first amendment, let's trash the second amendment as well.

[jimnyc]

There's only ONE group of 'people' out there blowing people up and joining terror groups. Simply don't let a single refugee in our country, not a single one. Nothing wrong with that, and it would be a wise move. Put up a monster sized wall. Put a HUGE dent into illegal immigration. Monitor ALL chatter/activity. Hopefully what little is here will assimilate - or go elsewhere. Nothing unlawful or unconstitutional about protecting borders, putting up a wall and monitoring crime. Also nothing wrong with ending immigration problems.

[jimnyc]

Once again, Donald Trump behaves like a clown, pandering to any fool who will listen to him.

And there you are listening.

[Black Diamond]

And there you are listening.

:laugh:

[Noir]

Will be interesting to hear how he squares that off with the constitution.

[Drummond]

Do you think he cares about the Constitution? How do you think he feels about internment camps?

Strong actions (even just proposing them) of a Conservative nature bothering you, FJ .. ? Oh dear.

The point about Trump .. and stalwarts such as Margaret Thatcher .. is that they do what is RIGHT. They draw whatever line in the sand they need to draw, for the furtherance of their country's best interests. Leftie whingers are overridden, and effective remedial actions are taken.

This is what defines a great leader versus a useless wimp.

So, FJ ... dream up some pedantry to (you'd hope) wheedle your way out of approving. You know you want to.

[Drummond]

Will be interesting to hear how he squares that off with the constitution.

'Nice' to see you and FJ in apparent agreement in your approaches.

[gabosaurus]

There's only ONE group of 'people' out there blowing people up and joining terror groups. Simply don't let a single refugee in our country, not a single one. Nothing wrong with that, and it would be a wise move. Put up a monster sized wall. Put a HUGE dent into illegal immigration. Monitor ALL chatter/activity. Hopefully what little is here will assimilate - or go elsewhere. Nothing unlawful or unconstitutional about protecting borders, putting up a wall and monitoring crime. Also nothing wrong with ending immigration problems.

https://i.imgflip.com/ua4yt.jpg

[Drummond]

https://i.imgflip.com/ua4yt.jpg

Stalin was his own version of a terrorist.

Strong anti-immigration and anti-terrorist measures do not serve terrorism, they combat it, with the welfare of countries served by it. Stalin just imposed his own terrorism and acted against the welfare of his country .. frequently, lethally so.

Perhaps these differences escape you ?

[revelarts]

Will be interesting to hear how he squares that off with the constitution.

spying on mosque doesn't square off with the constitution that's why NY stopped it.
neither does spying on all immigrants, or monitoring all U.S. "chatter"
neither does "taking whats "ours"" :rolleyes: and "getting rid of the the trash"

Trump and it seems few republicans care little to nothing about the constitution.

FEAR makes them want to assume ALL muslims are a danger, put up walls and shoot 1st and ask questions later.

I'm beginning to think that those with that mind set should move to Texas put up your walls around it. spy on every texans moves. F -warrants and probable cause. torture those that are acting funny. Kill people on the st that don't obey police orders like a soldier. Live off the land. The Gov can send Texas militia and air troops around the world to fight any terrorist they think are coming to kill Texans, and jail any texans without trial who are suspect of anything.

the rest of us can keep the constitution.
Not spy on citizens, use warrants, Police can protect and serve, we keep free speech, and freedom of religion, have the president get a declaration of war before he kills anyone overseas, have trails for suspects, use public evidence, and people aren't jailed or killed unless they have a trial. keep the 2nd amendment, even help a refugee or 2.
etc etc.

I get the feel good Hoorah for Gettin' the bad guys but don't pretend it's constitutional or even practical.

[CSM]

Will be interesting to hear how he squares that off with the constitution.

Probably the same way liberals square off "gun control" with the Second Amendment. Hmmmm .... any religion is fine as long as it isn't an "assault religion" and doesn't have more than 10 members praying at any one time. Works for me.

[Drummond]

spying on mosque doesn't square off with the constitution that's why NY stopped it.
neither does spying on all immigrants, or monitoring all U.S. "chatter"
neither does "taking whats "ours"" :rolleyes: and "getting rid of the the trash"

Trump and it seems few republicans care little to nothing about the constitution.

FEAR makes them want to assume ALL muslims are a danger, put up walls and shoot 1st and ask questions later.

I'm beginning to think that those with that mind set should move to Texas put up your walls around it. spy on every texans moves. F -warrants and probable cause. torture those that are acting funny. Kill people on the st that don't obey police orders like a soldier. Live off the land. The Gov can send Texas militia and air troops around the world to fight any terrorist they think are coming to kill Texans, and jail any texans without trial who are suspect of anything.

the rest of us can keep the constitution.
Not spy on citizens, use warrants, Police can protect and serve, we keep free speech, and freedom of religion, have the president get a declaration of war before he kills anyone overseas, have trails for suspects, use public evidence, and people aren't jailed or killed unless they have a trial. keep the 2nd amendment, even help a refugee or 2.
etc etc.

I get the feel good Hoorah for Gettin' the bad guys but don't pretend it's constitutional or even practical.

I can't speak with any authority at all about your Constitution .. so maybe it could be argued that my point of view is seriously compromised by that being true.

What I can say is that, on this side of the Pond, it's our Conservatives who not only have concerns about pro-terrorist 'chatter', but the will and the means to act to monitor all that they need to monitor, and consider it completely justified.

You say 'FEAR makes them want to assume ALL muslims are a danger'. Well, where does the polar opposite of that bring you ? A complacency which then translates into successful terrorism !!

I say that a willingness to obey political correctness imperatives gets in the way of a sufficiently critical meeting of the threat(s) that DO exist. When terrorists emerge, and kill their victims in their attacks, we get reports afterwards of how people who knew the terrorists beforehand were 'so surprised' that they could 'ever' be any threat. WHY ? Because people are in a mindset which blinds them to the alertness which, if it hadn't been stifled and programmed out of people, could have made those terrorists far more detectable !

Right now, our societies are in the trap of waiting for terrorism to do its worst, then only AFTERWARDS are the proper reactions seen, when it's way too late ! Well, Revelarts ... this politically-correct wilful blindness to dangers is KILLING PEOPLE.

And that needs to stop.

[jimnyc]

Shame that some spend so much time defending scummy muslims and condemning our police and government. And no, not about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the police do, everything the government does - but then jump up and down to protect muslims or condemn anyone that dares speak out against them. Even in France they have been arresting people that speak out against the muslims. Some here would probably like that.

[Abbey Marie]

Shame that some spend so much time defending scummy muslims and condemning our police and government. And no, not about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the police do, everything the government does - but then jump up and down to protect muslims or condemn anyone that dares speak out against them. Even in France they have been arresting people that speak out against the muslims. Some here would probably like that.


Isn't it just too much?

[revelarts]

Shame that some spend so much time condemning ALL muslims and Defending bad police and corrupt unconstitutional government. And pretend they care about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the whistle blowers do, make excuses for everything the corrupt government does - but then jump up and down to jail and torture and bomb thinly suspected muslims or illegal cigarette salesmen. Condemn anyone that dares speak to ask if they are really guilty of anything. and what's the EVIDENCE against them. Even in north Korea they have been arresting people that speak out against the gov't. Some here would probably like that.

[jimnyc]

Shame that some spend so much time condemning ALL muslims and Defending bad police and corrupt unconstitutional government. And pretend they care about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the whistle blowers do, make excuses for everything the corrupt government does - but then jump up and down to jail and torture and bomb thinly suspected muslims or illegal cigarette salesmen condemn anyone that dares speak to ask if they are really guilty of anything? and what's the EVIDENCE against them. Even in north Korea they have been arresting people that speak out against the gov't. Some here would probably like that.

This is like the 100th time you have mimicked one of my posts. All you're doing is showing how much of a retard you are. You've shown time and time again that you simply cannot grasp the quote function, and now you're showing that you really can't come up with original thoughts. If you prefer to point out your stupidity, then wondering why you don't get legitimate responses from folks, that's your choice I suppose. But personally, when you act and post like a fucking idiot, you'll get responses like this from me.

[jimnyc]

Isn't it just too much?

That's why I don't give a flip what so many think anymore. Let them lead the way and they will lead us to destruction. LOUD voices when it comes to issues condemning govt and police, but the silence is almost always there when it comes to death and destruction via terrorism. Or sometimes even defending their rights. Sickening.

[Abbey Marie]

That's why I don't give a flip what so many think anymore. Let them lead the way and they will lead us to destruction. LOUD voices when it comes to issues condemning govt and police, but the silence is almost always there when it comes to death and destruction via terrorism. Or sometimes even defending their rights. Sickening.

I actually had to turn off the news yesterday after about 10 minutes. The liberal rush to defend Muslims right after the Paris attacks was too much for my blood pressure.

Sometimes it feels like our country as a whole is suffering from some warped national version of Stockholm Syndrome. We identify more with our attackers than we care about self-preservation.

On a related note, the mayor of Philly just said the (overwhelmingly black-on-black) crime in the city is no different from international terrorism. What do we do with such ignorance?

[fj1200]

Before I get to far into this are you going to hang in for the long haul or scamper away when I prove the ignorance of your imagination?


Strong actions (even just proposing them) of a Conservative nature bothering you, FJ .. ? Oh dear.

Crapping on the Constitution is of a conservative nature? You must adore BO then; it's the liberal in you.

[jimnyc]

I actually had to turn off the news yesterday after about 10 minutes. The liberal rush to defend Muslims right after the Paris attacks was too much for my blood pressure.

Sometimes it feels like our country as a whole is suffering from some warped national version of Stockholm Syndrome. We identify more with our attackers than we care about self-preservation.

On a related note, the mayor of Philly just said the (overwhelmingly black-on-black) crime in the city is no different from international terrorism. What do we do with such ignorance?

I think it's more about the society we have created, and the PC lovey lovey bullshit. Too much of that and you get stepped on. Some think we should sing kumbaya with anyone and everyone around the world, and let them just walk across our borders without restriction.

Hell, I have no issue with those born here, and here already. But I think not a single one of them should be allowed to immigrate here in any manner going forth.

A lot of Philly is retarded, just like a lot of the inner city of NY. Ignorant idiots. Many folks expressed their dismay towards Paris on Twitter, as it took away from their attention on the black lives matter crap.

[Drummond]

Shame that some spend so much time condemning ALL muslims and Defending bad police and corrupt unconstitutional government. And pretend they care about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the whistle blowers do, make excuses for everything the corrupt government does - but then jump up and down to jail and torture and bomb thinly suspected muslims or illegal cigarette salesmen. Condemn anyone that dares speak to ask if they are really guilty of anything. and what's the EVIDENCE against them. Even in north Korea they have been arresting people that speak out against the gov't. Some here would probably like that.

How many terrorist cells could be said to be guilty of 'nothing', until they kill crowds of people ? Even in the wake of the Paris atrocities, you still argue against those who might 'thinly' suspect Muslims of being up to no good ??

Ask most Parisians, today, whether too much vigilance is worse than too little !!

So, chew this over. Last year, when ISIS was on its fundraising drive, it captured foreign citizens and then held them to ransom, threatening them with beheading if the ransoms weren't paid. Well ... France was one country said to be willing to pay such ransoms to get their people back.

How much of what was paid, was channelled right back into the funding of the weaponry and bombs used last Friday ?

Perhaps, reasonable though it could be said to be, you'd rather be critical of the French Government today for allowing such ransom payments ... right now, today, and you'd like to see French people attack their Government on the back of it. Well ... such recriminations won't help the present situation ... it won't help to castigate the very Government that'll have responsibility for France's further defences, to see to it that ISIS pays for what it's done.

There's a balance and a practicability to everything. Here, now, it's ISIS that's the enemy, ISIS and its supporters. Why not concentrate on opposition to the REAL enemy ?

[revelarts]

This is like the 100th time you have mimicked one of my posts. All you're doing is showing how much of a retard you are. You've shown time and time again that you simply cannot grasp the quote function, and now you're showing that you really can't come up with original thoughts. If you prefer to point out your stupidity, then wondering why you don't get legitimate responses from folks, that's your choice I suppose. But personally, when you act and post like a fucking idiot, you'll get responses like this from me.

if you'd have commented to my 1st response with a REPLY instead of a BS mischarateization directed AT me. then i'd reply accordingly.

most people know that i'm very cordiale and very friendly to those that reply to me with honest points.

But ALL you did was make up my position and act offended when you get a snarky but accurate reply.
However I may have provoked it by QUESTIONING you, Jeff and other's commitment to the constitution and freedom by simply REPEATING what you folks have said you wanted over many post..
WALLS- TORTURE- NO-WARRANTS- SPYING on MUSLIMS -KEEPING IMMIGRANTS OUT -TAKING WHAT YOU WANT FROM OTHER COUNTRIES -JAILING SUSPECT TERRORIST FOREVER WITHOUT TRIALS -KILLING SUSPECT TERRORIST and ANY FAMILY NEARBY WITHOUT TRIALS -ITS OK to KILL CITIZENS THAT DON'T OBEY POLICE FAST ENOUGH OVER MINOR or ZERO CRIMES -

Rather than OWN your views or reply to justify them you tried to paint my view different than it really is. SO yep I bite back, and will do it again if you do it again, until you correctly and honestly present my view.

[Perianne]

if you'd have commented to my 1st response with a REPLY instead of a BS mischarateization directed AT me. then i'd reply accordingly.

most people know that i'm very cordiale and very friendly to those that reply to me with honest points.

But ALL you did was make up my position and act offended when you get a snarky but accurate reply.
However I may have provoked it by QUESTIONING you, Jeff and other's commitment to the constitution and freedom by simply REPEATING what you folks have said you wanted over many post..
WALLS- TORTURE- NO-WARRANTS- SPYING on MUSLIMS -KEEPING IMMIGRANTS OUT -TAKING WHAT YOU WANT FROM OTHER COUNTRIES -JAILING SUSPECT TERRORIST FOREVER WITHOUT TRIALS -KILLING SUSPECT TERRORIST and ANY FAMILY NEARBY WITHOUT TRIALS -ITS OK to KILL CITIZENS THAT DON'T OBEY POLICE FAST ENOUGH OVER MINOR or ZERO CRIMES -

Rather than OWN your views or reply to justify them you tried to paint my view different than it really is. SO yep I bite back, and will do it again if you do it again, until you correctly and honestly present my view.
revelarts, finally we agree on something.

[jimnyc]

Rather than OWN your views or reply to justify them you tried to paint my view different than it really is. SO yep I bite back, and will do it again until you correctly and honestly present my view.

Bite back? You've yet to make a bite since you've been on this board. You post conspiracy theories. You post anti government youtube posts. You post anti military youtube posts. You post 98% gibberish, never quoting anyone, never writing a single paragraph, barely a legible sentence. I'm not going to debate with you any more. How many times have I asked you to QUOTE people appropriately? It's not rocket science. Whatever, I'm not going to get wound up or go back and forth with my crayons out writing with a child.

The loud boom you hear is the *KERPLUNK* of you falling back into the 86 bin. And now you're aware, so no need to reply to any of my posts. Adios and good day. :)

[pete311]

Donald isn't afraid..

Wrong, this is exactly nothing other than a fear reaction.

[Gunny]

Shame that some spend so much time condemning ALL muslims and Defending bad police and corrupt unconstitutional government. And pretend they care about constitutional issues, but in general. I see it non-stop, folks condemning everything the whistle blowers do, make excuses for everything the corrupt government does - but then jump up and down to jail and torture and bomb thinly suspected muslims or illegal cigarette salesmen. Condemn anyone that dares speak to ask if they are really guilty of anything. and what's the EVIDENCE against them. Even in north Korea they have been arresting people that speak out against the gov't. Some here would probably like that.

:rolleyes:

You already got called a retard. Ain't much to add to that.

[Gunny]

Wrong, this is exactly nothing other than a fear reaction.

Guess what people react to? You seem to be Mr Misdirection. You break something of mine I'm blowing you up. Called cause and effect.

[Drummond]

Wrong, this is exactly nothing other than a fear reaction.

I don't believe that for a nanosecond. What you have in Trump is a would-be leader possessing the greatness that all true leaders have .. the willingness and determination to NOT forever do what's 'easy' or politically correct, but what he is sure is the RIGHT thing to do.

That's the stuff of political bravery, if anything. Definitely not fear !! If you really believe otherwise, then prove your case.

[revelarts]

...WALLS- TORTURE- NO-WARRANTS- SPYING on MUSLIMS -KEEPING IMMIGRANTS OUT -TAKING WHAT YOU WANT FROM OTHER COUNTRIES -JAILING SUSPECT TERRORIST FOREVER WITHOUT TRIALS -KILLING SUSPECT TERRORIST and ANY FAMILY NEARBY WITHOUT TRIALS -ITS OK to KILL CITIZENS THAT DON'T OBEY POLICE FAST ENOUGH OVER MINOR or ZERO CRIMES -...@revelarts (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=1760), finally we agree on something. @Perianne (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2722)
Perianne at least you OWN your views, i can respect that even though we disagree.

But Jim, Jeff and others want to pretend or imagine those views listed are constitutional, align with american (human) values and "freedom" when they clearly do not.
THAT'S all I've tried to point out.
And it pisses them off.
They've got no good reply so they make it personal and start attacking me.
Rather than starting to let go of the fears and trusting and promoting the constitutional limits they say they love or swore to defend.

[Gunny]

I don't believe that for a nanosecond. What you have in Trump is a would-be leader possessing the greatness that all true leaders have .. the willingness and determination to NOT forever do what's 'easy' or politically correct, but what he is sure is the RIGHT thing to do.

That's the stuff of political bravery, if anything. Definitely not fear !! If you really believe otherwise, then prove your case.

I'm processing his passive aggressive, backwards-assed arguments. He ain't got a lot of time. :)

[pete311]

I don't believe that for a nanosecond. What you have in Trump is a would-be leader possessing the greatness that all true leaders have .. the willingness and determination to NOT forever do what's 'easy' or politically correct, but what he is sure is the RIGHT thing to do.

That's the stuff of political bravery, if anything. Definitely not fear !! If you really believe otherwise, then prove your case.

Leaders bring people together rather than divide.

You're political bravery is my political stupidity. I have a mosque 5 blocks away that I use as my pickup for meals on wheels. Nothing different going on there than any other church. Those people don't deserve for their place of faith to be closed because of something that is happening 10,000 miles away. How is that American?

[Gunny]

Leaders bring people together rather than divide.

You're political bravery is my political stupidity. I have a mosque 5 blocks away that I use as my pickup for meals on wheels. Nothing different going on there than any other church. Those people don't deserve for their place of faith to be closed because of something that is happening 10,000 miles away. How is that American?

Now if you want to have a REAL debate, we can go ...

You think white separatists and NAZIs have those same rights? How about Black LIES Matter?

Fine line between faith and clear and present danger.

[pete311]

Now if you want to have a REAL debate, we can go ...

You think white separatists and NAZIs have those same rights? How about Black LIES Matter?

Fine line between faith and clear and present danger.

What rights are you talking about?

[Drummond]

Leaders bring people together rather than divide.

Not necessarily. Sometimes, just leading accordance to conscience and practicability is what's called for.

Back during the time of Britain's 'Winter of Discontent', when the viability of UK society was rapidly going down the plughole courtesy of Union wrecking, Mrs Thatcher was elected to power in the hope that she could get us all out of that mess. She did so .. but NOT through just 'bringing people together'. No, she recognised that Unions had to be acted AGAINST, to stop their further vandalism.

Perhaps her finest moment was the Falklands conflict. Again, 'bringing people together' didn't even come into it. No .. as was true of the Unions, she had a foe to defeat. This she did. Result .. the Falkland Islanders had their future to enjoy, and the UK had defeated an aggressor power.

Many people hated Mrs Thatcher, BUT, she won three landslide electoral victories. People recognised true leadership. True greatness, which came from doing what was RIGHT, not what was POPULAR, or conciliatory. She wasn't a natural unifier. She was simply ... STELLAR.


You're political bravery is my political stupidity. I have a mosque 5 blocks away that I use as my pickup for meals on wheels. Nothing different going on there than any other church. Those people don't deserve for their place of faith to be closed because of something that is happening 10,000 miles away. How is that American?

Is America a Christian country ? Does it deserve its own faith-based identity, or doesn't it ?

I'd also like to ask how you're so sure that nothing IS going on at that mosque. Are you intimately concerned with all their activities ? How do you know that you're not just being shown the 'face' of the mosque that Muslims there prefer you to see ?

And even if you're right .. how can you be sure that you will CONTINUE to be ? Islam - unless you're a Muslim yourself ? - does NOT share your values. And, Islam being Islam, it's arrogant and aggressive enough to do whatever it wants to oppose them.

[Gunny]

What rights are you talking about?

Gonna play dumb and go to grade school questions, huh? First Amendment in the Constitution. The Right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression. That includes the freedom to hate. But we have hate crime laws. Not say I agree with any of them. The law should be applied equally to ALL.

However, if you present a clear and present danger, the protection of the people is ALSO a Right we are supposedly entitled to. If a group poses an imminent threat to the whole, then it needs to be addressed. Islam is a threat to democracy. Their religious beliefs rule their lives and they think it's okay to commit murder in the name of it simply if you have a different belief. Their belief is unconstitutional from the word go.

[pete311]

Is America a Christian country ? Does it deserve its own faith-based identity, or doesn't it ?

I'd also like to ask how you're so sure that nothing IS going on at that mosque. Are you intimately concerned with all their activities ? How do you know that you're not just being shown the 'face' of the mosque that Muslims there prefer you to see ?

And even if you're right .. how can you be sure that you will CONTINUE to be ? Islam - unless you're a Muslim yourself ? - does NOT share your values. And, Islam being Islam, it's arrogant and aggressive enough to do whatever it wants to oppose them.

I am not religious and would like to see it have nothing to do with government and politics.

Of course I don't know exactly what is going on there just like I don't know if the priest is abusing boys after hours at a church. Should we be closing Catholic Churches too because of paranoia?

[pete311]

Gonna play dumb and go to grade school questions, huh? First Amendment in the Constitution. The Right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression. That includes the freedom to hate. But we have hate crime laws. Not say I agree with any of them. The law should be applied equally to ALL.

However, if you present a clear and present danger, the protection of the people is ALSO a Right we are supposedly entitled to. If a group poses an imminent threat to the whole, then it needs to be addressed. Islam is a threat to democracy. Their religious beliefs rule their lives and they think it's okay to commit murder in the name of it simply if you have a different belief. Their belief is unconstitutional from the word go.

You are free to hate as long as it doesn't impede the freedoms and liberties of others. American Muslims are not an imminent threat. Where are you seeing that? Islam is not a threat to democracy. You are mixing a whole lot of cultural and political elements and branding it as Islam.

[revelarts]

I can't speak with any authority at all about your Constitution .. so maybe it could be argued that my point of view is seriously compromised by that being true.

-What I can say is that, on this side of the Pond, it's our Conservatives who not only have concerns about pro-terrorist 'chatter', but the will and the means to act to monitor all that they need to monitor, and consider it completely justified.

-You say 'FEAR makes them want to assume ALL muslims are a danger'. Well, where does the polar opposite of that bring you ? A complacency which then translates into successful terrorism !!
...

If the "Polar Opposite" is what I've proposed then maybe you could start from there.
But I suspect there's a Place between "ALL muslims are a danger" and "ZERO muslims are a danger".

the U.S. constitution grants that law enforcement can spy on ANYONE ...as long as they have reasonable suspicion of criminal activity they can present to a judge who agrees to give them a warrant to spy or SPECIFICALLY search.

simply.

That's ALL i want our justice system to honestly maintain for us all. Beyond that we moved into police state tactics.
But somehow some peoples fears are so HYPE to unreal levels that they believe that following the constitution -they love and swear to- is asking to much.

[LongTermGuy]

You are free to hate as long as it doesn't impede the freedoms and liberties of others. American Muslims are not an imminent threat. Where are you seeing that? Islam is not a threat to democracy. You are mixing a whole lot of cultural and political elements and branding it as Islam.


*And you are free to hate also defending the cult of Islam...


"Islam is not a threat to Democracy" ??? Are you that far gone?

"Islamic law is absolutely incompatible with democracy. It is a theocratic system with Allah alone at its head. Allah's law is interpreted by a ruling body of clerics. There is no room for a secular political system in which all people are treated as equals."

Quran (5:49) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.049) - "So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee"..... *Allah's Qur'an takes priority over the desires of the people. A democratic nation is by nature one that is not governed by Islamic law, meaning that a Muslim citizen would have divided loyalty. *It's clear from this verse which side he must choose."

From the Hadith:

Muslim (19:4294) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians...], invite them to three courses of action. If they <nobr>respond (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/021-democracy.htm#)</nobr> to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... *If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Non-Muslims are intended to be subordinate to Muslims.

[pete311]

Great, so you cherry picked some verses. Same can be done with the Bible.

Only 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries. Somehow the other 80% are doing just fine in various democracies. I've been to the middle east many times. Most people I meet are moderate and open to democracy/capitalism.

[Perianne]

There was a point in America where we allowed immigrants of a certain flavor. When I immigrated here in 1960, blacks knew their place, college age kids behaved, Mexicans were afraid of being sent back home, and the only Arabs anyone knew of rode camels in the middle east. With the immigration bill of 1964, and other political upheavals during the Johnson administration, everything changed.

Today America is full of undesirable people who need to either go back from whence they came, sent to prison, hung from a tree, or be served some equally unpleasant fate so as to teach others that this is America, not the land of "do whatever you want". And the group of undesirables does include white, Catholic priests who get their jollies from children. It is not only darkies who fall under the category of "undesirable", it is anyone who causes harm to this country.

A person should be able to protest any government action, as is provided for in the Constitution (is it?), but once the protest turns violent, a sharpshooter should take that person out. Do that and we would see a lot fewer Democratic voters misbehaving in the streets. As a matter of fact, I could stand right in the middle of them with my Rebel flag and feel as safe as I do at home.

Thus ^, another reason why Perianne's policies should be the policies of the USA.

[pete311]

There was a point in America where we allowed immigrants of a certain flavor. When I immigrated here in 1960, blacks knew their place, college age kids behaved, Mexicans were afraid of being sent back home, and the only Arabs anyone knew of rode camels in the middle east. With the immigration bill of 1964, and other political upheavals during the Johnson administration, everything changed.

Today America is full of undesirable people who need to either go back from whence they came, sent to prison, hung from a tree, or be served some equally unpleasant fate so as to teach others that this is America, not the land of "do whatever you want". And the group of undesirables does include white, Catholic priests who get their jollies from children. It is not only darkies who fall under the category of "undesirable", it is anyone who causes harm to this country.

A person should be able to protest any government action, as is provided for in the Constitution (is it?), but once the protest turns violent, a sharpshooter should take that person out. Do that and we would see a lot fewer Democratic voters misbehaving in the streets. As a matter of fact, I could stand right in the middle of them with my Rebel flag and feel as safe as I do at home.

Thus ^, another reason why Perianne's policies should be the policies of the USA.

I will add your ideology as an undesirable

[pete311]

You guys are playing right into the terrorists hands
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/17/isis-wants-you-to-hate-muslims/

[Perianne]

You guys are playing right into the terrorists hands
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/17/isis-wants-you-to-hate-muslims/

Not me. The murders in France have had no influence on me. I have always been for the removal of all Muslims.

[jimnyc]

Not me. The murders in France have had no influence on me. I have always been for the removal of all Muslims.

Outstanding, young lady!! :clap::clap:

[pete311]

Not me. The murders in France have had no influence on me. I have always been for the removal of all Muslims.
Good thing your opinion is the extreme fringe

[Perianne]

Good thing your opinion is the extreme fringe

Lol, you are silly, pete. Most people feel the same way I do. The smart ones, that is. :)

[Elessar]

https://i.imgflip.com/ua4yt.jpg

Stalin was a mass-murderer. How does this equate to the topic?

[pete311]

Anyway, it doesn't really matter because...

Report: At Least 2,000 Known and Suspected Terrorists Have Made Legal Firearms Purchases in the U.S. Since 2004 (http://gawker.com/report-at-least-2-000-known-and-suspected-terrorists-h-1742912326)http://gawker.com/report-at-least-2-000-known-and-suspected-terrorists-h-1742912326

[jimnyc]

Anyway, it doesn't really matter because...

Report: At Least 2,000 Known and Suspected Terrorists Have Made Legal Firearms Purchases in the U.S. Since 2004 (http://gawker.com/report-at-least-2-000-known-and-suspected-terrorists-h-1742912326)

http://gawker.com/report-at-least-2-000-known-and-suspected-terrorists-h-1742912326

And the NRA was 5000% spot on:

The NRA objected to earlier versions of the bill, saying they were “aimed primarily at law-abiding American gun owners,” that “prohibiting the possession of firearms doesn’t stop criminals from illegally acquiring them,” and that the bills were “sponsored by gun control extremists.”

[Elessar]

Good thing your opinion is the extreme fringe

Reading through this, I see you are whistling in the wind.
Make noise to yourself, yet means nothing to others unless
you are holding hands with another member.

[pete311]

Reading through this, I see you are whistling in the wind.
Make noise to yourself, yet means nothing to others unless
you are holding hands with another member.

Is this some cryptic poem?

[jimnyc]

Reading through this, I see you are whistling in the wind.
Make noise to yourself, yet means nothing to others unless
you are holding hands with another member.

little petey and his kumbaya friends and let's play nice with the infidel haters - thinks WE are on the fringe. :lol:

[gabosaurus]

Stalin was a mass-murderer. How does this equate to the topic?

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?

[jimnyc]

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?

Really, we are? Trolling again?

I heard that Hillary supporters like to brag about how great and smart their kids are, even if the kids genes belong to someone else.

[gabosaurus]

How am I not correct? Tell me where I am wrong.

As always, your definition of trolling consists of any point of view that disagrees with the majority view.
Just so happens that pretty much everything I post opposes the majority view.

[Perianne]

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?


How am I not correct? Tell me where I am wrong.

As always, your definition of trolling consists of any point of view that disagrees with the majority view.
Just so happens that pretty much everything I post opposes the majority view.

I disagree with you in that I am not anglo, but am still a very desirable citizen. No one with any sense would want to deport me.

[Abbey Marie]

I am not religious and would like to see it have nothing to do with government and politics.

Of course I don't know exactly what is going on there just like I don't know if the priest is abusing boys after hours at a church. Should we be closing Catholic Churches too because of paranoia?


Through multi-million dollar settlements, we essentially did close many of them.

[Abbey Marie]

If the "Polar Opposite" is what I've proposed then maybe you could start from there.
But I suspect there's a Place between "ALL muslims are a danger" and "ZERO muslims are a danger".

the U.S. constitution grants that law enforcement can spy on ANYONE ...as long as they have reasonable suspicion of criminal activity they can present to a judge who agrees to give them a warrant to spy or SPECIFICALLY search.

simply.

That's ALL i want our justice system to honestly maintain for us all. Beyond that we moved into police state tactics.
But somehow some peoples fears are so HYPE to unreal levels that they believe that following the constitution -they love and swear to- is asking to much.


If we could rewind to 5 days ago, do you think the Parisians would say, "No, no, do not spy on those poor Muslims!"?

[Abbey Marie]

little petey and his kumbaya friends and let's play nice with the infidel haters - thinks WE are on the fringe. :lol:


I'm telling ya- it's a sick version of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Abbey Marie]

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?


I don't even think his wife qualifies as Anglo.

[LongTermGuy]

Not me. The murders in France have had no influence on me. I have always been for the removal of all Muslims.


:clap::clap::clap:.....well said...


`They all read the same one and only book of peace....which basically says to Infidels... submit or be exterminated ....no time to play Sherlock Holmes and figure out who is who out of the Millions....

*​I cant stand Liberal...appeasement..."tolerance" and Ignorance...its expensive and dangerous...!

Trump 2016! > cure for muslim roaches and Illegal Parasites...

[Drummond]

I am not religious and would like to see it have nothing to do with government and politics.

Seriously ? Then I suggest that you must be living on a different planet.

In these days of terrorist cells, and city-wide terrorist attacks .. AND RADICALISM .. you think it's remotely realistic to separate political decisions, policies and actions, from consideration of those following the religion behind that terrorism ?

The Finsbury Park mosque, in north London, was 'home' to one Abu Hamza, who spent years preaching his hate messages.

Do you question the truth in this report .. ?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/sandboxing-islam-how-to-protect-america-from-jihad-terrorism


The Challenge: Jihad-Linked Mosques

.. This is all indisputable fact. The threat is real and growing. Even worse, the threat is specifically from devout, observant Muslims who attend mosque. Behind every lone-or-known-wolf jihadi and every Islamic State recruit there is a mosque where they are receiving instruction in Islam.

That should give us pause, as four separate studies in recent years show that 80% of mosques in the U.S. teach, preach or advocate for jihad and the imposition of sharia law in America.

Confirming these mosque studies are proven links between mosques and terrorists. For example, one of the two Mississippi Muslims recently arrested for trying to join the Islamic State is the son of the imam at the local mosque. Many terror-linked mosques have spawned multiple jihadis. The Phoenix mosque attended by the Garland TX jihadis is notorious for having two other members in federal prison on terrorism-related convictions. Perhaps most infamous is the Islamic Society of Boston, which was attended not only by the Boston Marathon Bombers, but by numerous other jihad-terror-linked Muslims. The list goes on and on.


Of course I don't know exactly what is going on there just like I don't know if the priest is abusing boys after hours at a church. Should we be closing Catholic Churches too because of paranoia?

:lame2::lame2::lame2:

-- Decidedly lame. After 129 killed in Paris last Friday, you need to equate paedophilic priests (who are not part of terrorist cells set up for such a purpose) with mass murder, to get traction in your argument ??

This is hardly worth arguing.

Fact is that Islam is the driving-force behind Muslim terrorism. Being religious, what more natural a route could there be for radicalisation than from those establishments whose purpose is to represent, teach, be the very focus for, the religion inspiring it all ?? And you want mosques to get some form of immunity from corrective action ???

[Elessar]

Is this some cryptic poem?

I guess you just do not understand simple English.

[Drummond]

You are free to hate as long as it doesn't impede the freedoms and liberties of others. American Muslims are not an imminent threat. Where are you seeing that? Islam is not a threat to democracy. You are mixing a whole lot of cultural and political elements and branding it as Islam.

One quick comment. I get from this that you're all in favour of a threat evolving to become as serious as possible, before any consideration is made towards doing anything about it ??

And you say that Islam isn't a threat to democracy. Well, Islamists hate democracy, and fight Western democracies because they hate our way of life. Regardless of what impact Muslims can realistically make on democratic systems, (a) they WISH they could, and (b) are killing in large numbers in the pursuance of their beliefs and goals.

[Elessar]

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?

That is a stretch Gabby.

Try reality instead of some hair-brained idiotic Liberal speculation.

Trump wants to close the borders and boot the illegals out.

Only whining Liberals oppose that.

[Jeff]

How funny, the same liberal folks that have been going along with Obama for 7 years wanting to by pass our Constitution to take away guns are all of a sudden worried about Trump going around it. Now of course one is to take guns from law abiding citizens and one is to stop murdering killing scum, guess which side the liberals are on. :rolleyes:

[Jeff]

We all know what Trump and his supporters are ultimately aiming for. They want ethnic cleansing. Everyone who is not an Anglo should be either sent to a detention camp or deported elsewhere.
I am guessing that Trump is planning his own version of Kristallnacht as we speak.

I wonder if Trump (and other such conservative) realize that this has already been attempted?

No Gabs lets keep it going the way y'all have it going, the blacks are killing whites and cops at will, the Muslims are killing people by the hundreds, our president is doing nothing about either ( except agreeing with them and explaining how he is teaching his daughters to be the same as the other rioters ) No I wouldn't change a thing :rolleyes: I agree Gabs lets take guns from law abiding citizens so only the scum bags will have them, you know the black thugs, the muslim terrorist, yea all great stuff.

I guess we can UN arm the American people and then we can count on you fixing things by having lunch dates with the muslims and the gang leaders, and if that don't work we can unleash your sister on them, that will fix em. :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

If we could rewind to 5 days ago, do you think the Parisians would say, "No, no, do not spy on those poor Muslims!"?
What people think of constitutional or legal restraints that protect all our freedom AFTER they've been harmed in a crime of ANY KIND is not the real measure of whether or not something is right or wrong or even practical is it?

We could ask that about any number of tragic events.
After Oklahoma City do we ask if we should spy on all the poor Veterans!? like Tim McVey.
Veterans are dangerous, unstable at lot are on meds.

Plus it seems some of the French terrorist were already on watch list and were French. Maybe it's the FRENCH we can't Trust!! But the sad thing again is it looks like the plan of watching EVERYONE has failed when they should be focused on the radicals within ANY group be it U.S. veterans, muslims, christians, blacks, whites, bikers or UFO cults. You don't spy on over a 1.5 billion muslims to try and find the 50 radicals that are trying to bomb Paris. Just like you don't spy on 20 million U.S. veteran to find a Tim MKvey and friends. There are things that you look for BEYOND their religion or former military status that put people on the radar an make them eligible for legit EFFECTIVE SPYING and investigation.

Saying we should spy on all Muslims or deport all muslims is an emotional, unfair and impractical knee jerk reaction.
has nothing to do with "loving" muslims. It has to do with not labeling ANY large category of people as a threat as bombers. and protecting ALL groups/individuals freedoms while focusing on the details of the criminals to make real progress.

[jimnyc]

One quick comment. I get from this that you're all in favour of a threat evolving to become as serious as possible, before any consideration is made towards doing anything about it ??

And you say that Islam isn't a threat to democracy. Well, Islamists hate democracy, and fight Western democracies because they hate our way of life. Regardless of what impact Muslims can realistically make on democratic systems, (a) they WISH they could, and (b) are killing in large numbers in the pursuance of their beliefs and goals.

Muslims are a threat, as they are saying over and over that American blood is coming, it's what they want most. Maybe not ALL are a threat, but it's past time to be aware and vigilant. I don't care if they don't like it or not. Really the only other threat I see at this time is from the black community, who seemingly want a race war.

[Kathianne]

I'm not going to join in 'kill them all,' however there is plenty of reasons for not minimizing the numbers of Muslims that do not share our values, indeed are becoming radicalized by the 'successes' of ISIS:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/17/us-soccer-friendly-turkey-idUSKCN0T62LY20151117


Sports| Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:08pm ESTRelated: SPORTS (http://www.reuters.com/news/sports)
Turkey fans boo minute's silence for Paris victims

ISTANBUL

Turkish fans booed during the minute's silence for the victims of the Paris attacks before their national team drew 0-0 with Greece in a friendly international soccer game on Tuesday.

The mark of respect was observed at matches across Europe, including at Wembley where France faced England, after Islamic State militants struck Paris on Friday killing 129 people.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras watched the game together, in a sign of reconciliation between the two neighbors, whose relationship has suffered from hostilities in the past.

It was the first time the two teams had met for eight years and the Turkish Football Federation had announced a string of additional security measures before the match at the Istanbul Basaksehir stadium, which was a 17,000 sell out.

Turkey, who have not lost this year, are preparing ahead of Euro 2016, which they qualified for in third place in their group. They enjoyed a 2-1 victory away to Qatar last week.

Greece's German coach Michael Skibbe led out a team in Turkey for the first time since he had spells at Galatasaray, Eskisehirspor and Karabukspor from 2008 to October this year.

However, the occasion was a disappointment with both teams trying out new players in a game of few chances with former European champions Greece, who failed to qualify for the Euros, having just one goal attempt against Turkey's 12.

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, so Trumps a coward, and apparently a bunch of people decided cowardice was a good thing, as was setting fire to the 1st Amendment and pissing on the ashes.

That's not a point of debate, it's objective fact. Anyone jumping on this bandwagon of fear is signing off on it, that the founders were just wrong. It's not only cowardly, but asinine, and tactically horrific. It's certainly not conservative, and it's not liberal, it's just out and out cowardice.

I mean, seriously, why not just cut to the chase, and order ISIS a few millions AK-47s while you're all at it? Maybe hire some Hookers to give the suicide bombers.one last handy? Sure you guys don't wanna just pay for their recruiting posters yourselves?

Seriously, at what point in history has religious oppression worked out WELL?

And why is everyone terrified of these little assholes? I mean, come one, this ain't exactly the Empire on Which The Sun Never Sets, folks. It's a bunch of cowardly pissants hiding in the desert, with what, 25,000 guys (likely an overestimate at this point since eye joint US Russia,, strikes), so why,are y'alls pants wet? Seriously, they're a fucking joke.

Let's really lay this out there: The only reason they've managed to survive is running, hiding, and us spending too much time pissing and moaning at each other. AQ was a badass... until they get our full attention. ISIS only got born due to our fumbling of the ball in Iraq, and they got not only our attention now, but both Russia and France. Where do you put their lifespans?

Oh, and yes, this does have something to do with the refugees. They found a fake Syrian passport on one of the guys. But why fake a passport, when the guys were all from France and Belgium? To make the refugees suspect. That's the big move from ISIS, and really, no one here can claim it wasn't brilliant, given how many of you are currently doing just what they want, Trump too.

They're AFRAID of Germany and Europe taking in the refugees. But why? Because their reigns are built on a pile of bullshit, and those refugees are a huge threat to that pile of bullshit. Think for a moment: how many are writing home from Germany about how well they're being treated by the non-Muslim Germans? At their core, ISIS knows they need to make their OWN people afraid of us, and the best way to do that? Do things that cause our leaders, and potential leaders to call out threats against Muslims. Then they don't need to convince their people of shit, they can just play the video of Trump popping off, and POOF! WE'RE doing their recruiting for them. All they have to do is whip us up into a forth every so often without coming at us directly enough to get our direct attention.

And they're going to continue to gain ground until we get past our fear, to cast light on the shitty little con-artists doing this shit.

[jimnyc]

I'm not scared of them, and doubt anyone else is either. But denying them entry if we can is just common sense. Keeping an extra eye on activity from mosques and similar is common sense. They have stated they want to kill us, they have acted around the world, so it would be dumb not to keep a keen eye out. Closing every mosque? Nope. Watching every refugee like hawks since our government wants them in? Damn straight. Keeping an eye on those here to an extent, keeping an eye out for radicalism? Damn straight. I don't care if it's because of their religion or not, we would be downright stupid if we didn't keep eyes out now, and I don't care if that means spying or parking cars in front of various mosques. I think being vigilant and preventing American deaths is more important than worrying about the feelings of muslims.

Funny how folks are so worried about trampling on the rights of muslims right now - while the rights of christians have been being trampled on for a few decades now.

[Kathianne]

I'm not scared of them, and doubt anyone else is either. But denying them entry if we can is just common sense. Keeping an extra eye on activity from mosques and similar is common sense. They have stated they want to kill us, they have acted around the world, so it would be dumb not to keep a keen eye out. Closing every mosque? Nope. Watching every refugee like hawks since our government wants them in? Damn straight. Keeping an eye on those here to an extent, keeping an eye out for radicalism? Damn straight. I don't care if it's because of their religion or not, we would be downright stupid if we didn't keep eyes out now, and I don't care if that means spying or parking cars in front of various mosques. I think being vigilant and preventing American deaths is more important than worrying about the feelings of muslims.

Funny how folks are so worried about trampling on the rights of muslims right now - while the rights of christians have been being trampled on for a few decades now.

I agree. The 'eyes' and 'ears' on the mosques in the US can be done legally. The idea of chucking religious rights though shouldn't be up for discussion.

The idea of allowing tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country shouldn't be up for discussion, hopefully Congress, not the current cinc will address this.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Okay, so Trumps a coward, and apparently a bunch of people decided cowardice was a good thing, as was setting fire to the 1st Amendment and pissing on the ashes.

That's not a point of debate, it's objective fact. Anyone jumping on this bandwagon of fear is signing off on it, that the founders were just wrong. It's not only cowardly, but asinine, and tactically horrific. It's certainly not conservative, and it's not liberal, it's just out and out cowardice.

I mean, seriously, why not just cut to the chase, and order ISIS a few millions AK-47s while you're all at it? Maybe hire some Hookers to give the suicide bombers.one last handy? Sure you guys don't wanna just pay for their recruiting posters yourselves?

Seriously, at what point in history has religious oppression worked out WELL?

And why is everyone terrified of these little assholes? I mean, come one, this ain't exactly the Empire on Which The Sun Never Sets, folks. It's a bunch of cowardly pissants hiding in the desert, with what, 25,000 guys (likely an overestimate at this point since eye joint US Russia,, strikes), so why,are y'alls pants wet? Seriously, they're a fucking joke.

Let's really lay this out there: The only reason they've managed to survive is running, hiding, and us spending too much time pissing and moaning at each other. AQ was a badass... until they get our full attention. ISIS only got born due to our fumbling of the ball in Iraq, and they got not only our attention now, but both Russia and France. Where do you put their lifespans?

Oh, and yes, this does have something to do with the refugees. They found a fake Syrian passport on one of the guys. But why fake a passport, when the guys were all from France and Belgium? To make the refugees suspect. That's the big move from ISIS, and really, no one here can claim it wasn't brilliant, given how many of you are currently doing just what they want, Trump too.

They're AFRAID of Germany and Europe taking in the refugees. But why? Because their reigns are built on a pile of bullshit, and those refugees are a huge threat to that pile of bullshit. Think for a moment: how many are writing home from Germany about how well they're being treated by the non-Muslim Germans? At their core, ISIS knows they need to make their OWN people afraid of us, and the best way to do that? Do things that cause our leaders, and potential leaders to call out threats against Muslims. Then they don't need to convince their people of shit, they can just play the video of Trump popping off, and POOF! WE'RE doing their recruiting for them. All they have to do is whip us up into a forth every so often without coming at us directly enough to get our direct attention.

And they're going to continue to gain ground until we get past our fear, to cast light on the shitty little con-artists doing this shit.



It's a bunch of cowardly pissants hiding in the desert, with what, 25,000 guys (likely an overestimate at this point since eye joint US Russia,, strikes), so why,are y'alls pants wet? Seriously, they're a fucking joke

Over two years ago obama called them the JV-TEAM!!!!
NOW TWO YEARS LATER THEY THREATEN EUROPE.

And if you think that is a false and unfounded threat, please do explain how that is the case.

Apparently the extremely small number of attackers on 9/11 doesn't seem to register with you my friend.

And that joke has now murdered over ten thousand Christians in the M.E... and displaced tens of thousands more. --TYR

[jimnyc]

I agree. The 'eyes' and 'ears' on the mosques in the US can be done legally. The idea of chucking religious rights though shouldn't be up for discussion.

The idea of allowing tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country shouldn't be up for discussion, hopefully Congress, not the current cinc will address this.

I think they should step up listening to them in all areas. Chatter on the internet especially, also legal. There are so many ways they can step up surveillance. And of course, stopping all refugees from entering is a no brainer, to me at least. For all we know there are 7 more folks already here, just waiting to commit a similar attack to that of Paris.

If congress basically says NO about the refugees - can Obama wave his magic pen and allow it anyway?

[fj1200]

Funny how folks are so worried about trampling on the rights of muslims right now - while the rights of christians have been being trampled on for a few decades now.

A. Your rights haven't been trampled for a few decades, and 2. Conservatives should be the ones standing up for the Constitution, not rallying behind those who apparently have little regard for it.


I agree. The 'eyes' and 'ears' on the mosques in the US can be done legally. The idea of chucking religious rights though shouldn't be up for discussion.

The idea of allowing tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country shouldn't be up for discussion, hopefully Congress, not the current cinc will address this.

I don't think it is even in the cards realistically speaking. Our vetting process is worlds better than Europe's problem of refugees streaming across the borders.

[jimnyc]

Over two years ago obama called them the JV-TEAM!!!!
NOW TWO YEARS LATER THEY THREATEN EUROPE.

And if you think that is a false and unfounded threat, please do explain how that is the case.

Apparently the extremely small number of attackers on 9/11 doesn't seem to register with you my friend.

And that joke has now murdered over ten thousand Christians in the M.E... and displaced tens of thousands more. --TYR

I agree. They should not be underestimated. They have a LOT of weapons and resources. They were making upwards of $1 million dollars per day in gas alone. And who knows about any donations for sure? They are certainly not just a handful of camel jockeys. These guys were able to bring down an airliner. Then kill 130 in Paris not long after. Then add in - how many thousands have they killed, regardless of the reason?

They may be scumbags who that I want dead, and I'm not afraid - but I also wouldn't underestimate them.

[jimnyc]

A. Your rights haven't been trampled for a few decades, and 2. Conservatives should be the ones standing up for the Constitution, not rallying behind those who apparently have little regard for it.

1 - My rights have been trampled and 2 - I am standing up for my rights via the COTUS, thanks! And I agree, I won't let those that have little regard stand in my way anymore.

[fj1200]

1 - My rights have been trampled and 2 - I am standing up for my rights via the COTUS, thanks! And I agree, I won't let those that have little regard stand in my way anymore.

Which rights?

[jimnyc]

Which rights?

1st

[fj1200]

1st

You exercise free speech every day along with exercising religion and even freely assemble on occasion. :)

[jimnyc]

You exercise free speech every day along with exercising religion and even freely assemble on occasion. :)

Ok then!

[Kathianne]

The first amendment is under organized attack on college campuses first, in the general forum secondarily. It's a growing trend, mostly by self-censorship by the media led by the lexicon in chief, Obama.

[pete311]

Apparently it's not so easy:
Here's Why You Should Stop Worrying About Terrorists Entering The U.S. As Refugees

It's much easier for a would-be terrorist to fly to the U.S. on a tourist visa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/applying-refugee-status-is-hard_564bbf8ce4b045bf3df1a043

[fj1200]

The first amendment is under organized attack on college campuses first, in the general forum secondarily. It's a growing trend, mostly by self-censorship by the media led by the lexicon in chief, Obama.

If so then the response is not to join in but to defend.

[Kathianne]

If so then the response is not to join in but to defend.
Actually one needs to look at what is causing this, it's the federal policies put in place through Title XI. As for the press, they've taken few steps back from self-censorship, staring with not equating terrorism with Islam. That too began with Obama.

[fj1200]

Actually one needs to look at what is causing this, it's the federal policies put in place through Title XI. As for the press, they've taken few steps back from self-censorship, staring with not equating terrorism with Islam. That too began with Obama.

I'm not going to disagree and getting back to my point, we shouldn't be taking faux-persecution and using it to justify an unconstitutional stance against others.

[Kathianne]

I'm not going to disagree and getting back to my point, we shouldn't be taking faux-persecution and using it to justify an unconstitutional stance against others.

I'm quite for staying with the Constitution, which you know. However, this argument is heading to the same problems that the GOP has fallen into. Promise change, fail to deliver. The idea that protecting one part of the constitution, while ignoring the threats on other fronts, is a failure.

[revelarts]

I agree. The 'eyes' and 'ears' on the mosques in the US can be done legally.

No, the only way to legally have "eyes and ears" on a mosque is attend it's public services/events. beyond that you need probable cause or reasonable suspicion and a warrant.
Same as you would at a Church or at the American Legion.

one country, one law for us all.





The idea of chucking religious rights though shouldn't be up for discussion.
agreed





The idea of allowing tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country shouldn't be up for discussion, hopefully Congress, not the current cinc will address this.
Many of the Syrians are Christians. And Probably little to ZERO love for ISIS. They know the area and the language and would be eternally grateful that they and their family were safe in the U.S.. And I suspect there are more than a few muslims refugees that have no love for ISIS.
Preventing u.s. terror is a real concern but are we missing an opportunity for real allies?

Also the normal vetting proceeders for refugees and asylum seekers is not a rubber stamp.
IF the FBI,CIA,NSA, IS, etc do their jobs trouble makers won't get in and those who are still questionable will be under LEGAL 24/7 watch since they come from a true war zone.

but hey maybe none of that seems reasonable when people are afraid.

[jimnyc]

Apparently it's not so easy:
Here's Why You Should Stop Worrying About Terrorists Entering The U.S. As Refugees

It's much easier for a would-be terrorist to fly to the U.S. on a tourist visa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/applying-refugee-status-is-hard_564bbf8ce4b045bf3df1a043

So we should just ignore them then? Idiot.

[Kathianne]

No, the only way to legally have "eyes and ears" on a mosque is attend it's public services/events. beyond that you need probable cause or reasonable suspicion and a warrant.
Same as you would at a Church or at the American Legion.

one country, one law for us all.




agreed




Many of the Syrians are Christians. And Probably little to ZERO love for ISIS. They know the area and the language and would be eternally grateful that they and their family were safe in the U.S.. And I suspect there are more than a few muslims refugees that have no love for ISIS.
Preventing u.s. terror is a real concern but are we missing an opportunity for real allies?

Also the normal vetting proceeders for refugees and asylum seekers is not a rubber stamp.
IF the FBI,CIA,NSA, IS, etc do their jobs trouble makers won't get in and those who are still questionable will be under LEGAL 24/7 watch since they come from a true war zone.

but hey maybe none of that seems reasonable when people are afraid.

It's not impossible to get warrants for surveillance, indeed I've always thought it should be done this way. I don't have a problem with 'secret warrants' either.

We are at war, whether it's acknowledged or not.

However, I am for doing all within the law and the Constitution.

[jimnyc]

It's not impossible to get warrants for surveillance, indeed I've always thought it should be done this way. I don't have a problem with 'secret warrants' either.

We are at war, whether it's acknowledged or not.

However, I am for doing all within the law and the Constitution.

Listen to chatter, get warrant, get intel. Wouldn't be hard, the chatter and support is everywhere. If someone is against it - fuck 'em.

[Kathianne]

I agree. The 'eyes' and 'ears' on the mosques in the US can be done legally. The idea of chucking religious rights though shouldn't be up for discussion.

The idea of allowing tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country shouldn't be up for discussion, hopefully Congress, not the current cinc will address this.

Case in point?

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/260471-schumer-refugee-pause-may-be-necessary


Schumer: Refugee pause may be necessary
By Alexander Bolton (http://thehill.com/author/alexander-bolton)

Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), the third ranking member of the Senate Democratic leadership, on Tuesday said it may be necessary to halt the resettlement of Syrian refugees in the United States.


Republicans immediately seized on Schumer’s comment, which breaks with other Democrats who have argued against halting the program...

[jimnyc]

Case in point?

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/260471-schumer-refugee-pause-may-be-necessary

Sadly, I read that some of the cockroaches are already here in New York. :(

[Gunny]

Sadly, I read that some of the cockroaches are already here in New York. :(

You need a .380 or .25. Easily concealable and you can walk right up and if you nail them right behind the ear (lower part at an upward angle) problem solved. Then you take THEIR weapons and you've just increased your armory.

[jimnyc]

You need a .380 or .25. Easily concealable and you can walk right up and if you nail them right behind the ear (lower part at an upward angle) problem solved. Then you take THEIR weapons and you've just increased your armory.

Spoke with Jeff earlier today. I have nothing whatsoever illegal in mind of course, but I'll be starting to arm myself more than previously. Unfortunately carrying here is an issue, but having one nearby certainly won't.

[Gunny]

Spoke with Jeff earlier today. I have nothing whatsoever illegal in mind of course, but I'll be starting to arm myself more than previously. Unfortunately carrying here is an issue, but having one nearby certainly won't.

The problem is letting these assholes in. And I didn't say anything about "legal". I was talking about winning. We're being invaded. Silently. You have to be prepared. I can teach you all kinds of sneaky shit about hiding weapons.

[revelarts]

Case in point?

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/260471-schumer-refugee-pause-may-be-necessary


the problem is , if we really want to follow the law for better or worse,
neither the congress or the State governors have much say in the refugee question.
There are several old STOTUS cases that settle clearly that the president has authority there.


And again getting a real warrant based on real suspicion ... not religion... is fine.
But just randomly "listening to chatter" going on fishing expeditions is illegal soviet style BS.

[Kathianne]

the problem is , if we really want to follow the law for better or worse,
neither the congress or the State governors have much say in the refugee question.
There are several old STOTUS cases that settle clearly that the president has authority there.


And again getting a real warrant based on real suspicion ... not religion... is fine.
But just randomly "listening to chatter" going on fishing expeditions is illegal soviet style BS.

You ignore political power/pressure. Don't forget the Preamble either, it's at the basis of the establishment.

[Gunny]

the problem is , if we really want to follow the law for better or worse,
neither the congress or the State governors have much say in the refugee question.
There are several old STOTUS cases that settle clearly that the president has authority there.


And again getting a real warrant based on real suspicion ... not religion... is fine.
But just randomly "listening to chatter" going on fishing expeditions is illegal soviet style BS.

You can still hang horse thieves in Texas. Want to go from here about old, nonapplicable laws?

The President does NOT have the authority to backdoor Congress, and according to the 10th Amendment, he has no authority demand a state do anything not covered in the Bill of Rights.

[jimnyc]

You ignore political power/pressure. Don't forget the Preamble either, it's at the basis of the establishment.

I might add, listening to chatter IS NOT illegal in any manner whatsoever. If these nitwits want to communicate via twitter and other places leaving themselves unprotected, tough on them. And even more so if it's foreign listening of events being setup with individuals within our country. I'm pretty sure that a terrorist on the ground in Brussels doesn't get many rights from us. If they want to chat in public, and then someone reports it - voila, time to monitor them. There are SO many ways that they have opened themselves up for further scrutiny that don't even need a warrant. That alone would be a TON of chatter to listen to, likely leading to warrants for even further ways of monitoring.

[revelarts]

You ignore political power/pressure. Don't forget the Preamble either, it's at the basis of the establishment.

Yes, absolutely, they can all put various pressures on the president but it's his decision.
He has the legal authority not congress or the Govs..

But as lame as the congress has been in areas where they DO have legal authority over the president I doubt they push this much further than Yammering about it, but doing nothing. Then trying to get votes for their big talk against the scary homeless people from other countries.

[Gunny]

Yes, absolutely, they can all put various pressures on the president but it's his decision.
He has the legal authority not congress or the Govs..

But as lame as the congress has been in areas where they DO have legal authority over the president I doubt they push this much further than Yammering about it, but doing nothing. Then trying to get votes for their big talk against the scary homeless people from other countries.

You are absolutely wrong. He does NOT have the legal authority. Congress is the legislature, not the the Executive Branch.

Congress hasn't done crap in years but play party politics. I'll give you THAT one.

[Abbey Marie]

Okay, so Trumps a coward, and apparently a bunch of people decided cowardice was a good thing, as was setting fire to the 1st Amendment and pissing on the ashes.

That's not a point of debate, it's objective fact. Anyone jumping on this bandwagon of fear is signing off on it, that the founders were just wrong. It's not only cowardly, but asinine, and tactically horrific. It's certainly not conservative, and it's not liberal, it's just out and out cowardice.

I mean, seriously, why not just cut to the chase, and order ISIS a few millions AK-47s while you're all at it? Maybe hire some Hookers to give the suicide bombers.one last handy? Sure you guys don't wanna just pay for their recruiting posters yourselves?

Seriously, at what point in history has religious oppression worked out WELL?

And why is everyone terrified of these little assholes? I mean, come one, this ain't exactly the Empire on Which The Sun Never Sets, folks. It's a bunch of cowardly pissants hiding in the desert, with what, 25,000 guys (likely an overestimate at this point since eye joint US Russia,, strikes), so why,are y'alls pants wet? Seriously, they're a fucking joke.

Let's really lay this out there: The only reason they've managed to survive is running, hiding, and us spending too much time pissing and moaning at each other. AQ was a badass... until they get our full attention. ISIS only got born due to our fumbling of the ball in Iraq, and they got not only our attention now, but both Russia and France. Where do you put their lifespans?

Oh, and yes, this does have something to do with the refugees. They found a fake Syrian passport on one of the guys. But why fake a passport, when the guys were all from France and Belgium? To make the refugees suspect. That's the big move from ISIS, and really, no one here can claim it wasn't brilliant, given how many of you are currently doing just what they want, Trump too.

They're AFRAID of Germany and Europe taking in the refugees. But why? Because their reigns are built on a pile of bullshit, and those refugees are a huge threat to that pile of bullshit. Think for a moment: how many are writing home from Germany about how well they're being treated by the non-Muslim Germans? At their core, ISIS knows they need to make their OWN people afraid of us, and the best way to do that? Do things that cause our leaders, and potential leaders to call out threats against Muslims. Then they don't need to convince their people of shit, they can just play the video of Trump popping off, and POOF! WE'RE doing their recruiting for them. All they have to do is whip us up into a forth every so often without coming at us directly enough to get our direct attention.

And they're going to continue to gain ground until we get past our fear, to cast light on the shitty little con-artists doing this shit.



1. We're not "terrified". Have you seen people running around screaming in terror? Shaking in their basements? What I see more and more is straight up ANGER.
2. We ARE very concerned, because our fearless leader not only shows no signs of protecting this country from terrorism, he is actively making it easier for them to attack us by inviting them in.

[Gunny]

1. We're not "terrified". Have you seen people running around screaming in terror? Shaking in their basements? What I see is more and more is straight up ANGER.
2. We ARE very concerned, because our fearless leader not only shows no signs of protecting this country from terrorism, he is actively making it easier for them to attack us by inviting them in.

Oh yeah. I'm terrified. :laugh: You can tell, right?

[Abbey Marie]

Oh yeah. I'm terrified. :laugh: You can tell, right?


:laugh2:


http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-i-m-not-scared-of-very-much-i-ve-been-hit-by-lightning-and-been-in-the-marine-corps-for-four-years-lee-trevino-186662.jpg

[revelarts]

If no ones scared then why the knee jerk reaction of BLOCKING ALL refugees and spying on ALL the homeless muslims, all christian Syrians, the old, the young etc? Rather than a reasoned assessment of actual threats? And a hand of help to those that legitimately need it.
Those who've been attacked and made homeless by the same enemies that have attacked our troops in Iraq?

sorry the reaction may be anger or fear but ether way it's not based in rational thinking or christian ideals or the compassion american is known for.

also I say again
those refugees that are christians probably have little to ZERO love for ISIS. And BTW they know the area and the language and would be eternally grateful that they and their family were safe in the U.S.. Also I suspect there are more than a few muslims refugees that have no love for ISIS either.

But hey Maybe Putin will befriend the Christain and grateful muslim refugees. He seems to me making all the other right foreign policy moves.
wasn't Einstein and Wernher Von Braun refugee of another religion from a country at war?

[Abbey Marie]

You are confusing scared with circumspect, wise, and realistic.

[pete311]

You are confusing scared with circumspect, wise, and realistic.
Nope

[revelarts]

You are confusing scared with circumspect, wise, and realistic.
It's not wise or realistic to suspect 1.6 billion people.

[Gunny]

Nope

She's right. You're wrong. You become a threat to me, I'm figuring out how to kill you. I'm not going to let you even come close. People like you just refuse to accept an enemy until its in your face and then costs you 10x as much as if you just got off your asses, got some proactivity, some common sense and did some simple math.

[Abbey Marie]

Nope


Yup

[Abbey Marie]

It's not wise or realistic to suspect 1.6 billion people.

Unless 1.6 billion are coming here; I'm fairly sure we only suspect the ones whom we have to actually worry about. You know, the ones Obama is inviting to our shores.

Btw, it was a woman who blew herself up in Paris today.

[Gunny]

It's not wise or realistic to suspect 1.6 billion people.

It's realistic if you've ever been in the Middle East.

[revelarts]

Unless 1.6 billion are coming here, I'm fairly sure we only suspect the ones whom we have to actually worry about. You know, the ones Obama is inviting to our shores.

Btw, it was a woman who blew herself up in Paris today.
so you're sure all the refugees are terrorist then.

it's one thing to vet refugees . it's what's usually done.

It another to be afraid of or angry with people who all you know about them is they are from a war zone or a muslim country. no wait a secular run country with christians and muslims living in peace prior to Obama aiding the radial muslim rebels.

[pete311]

She's right. You're wrong. You become a threat to me, I'm figuring out how to kill you. I'm not going to let you even come close. People like you just refuse to accept an enemy until its in your face and then costs you 10x as much as if you just got off your asses, got some proactivity, some common sense and did some simple math.

Are you seriously threatening my life? What a piece of shit you are. I'm a local businessman with a family and no criminal record and tell me I am the problem and threaten my life. You piece of shit. Shame on you.

[pete311]

It's realistic if you've ever been in the Middle East.

I have several times. I've been to syria, iraq, turkey, lebannon, jordan, UAE, qatar, oman, egypt. Maybe you were there via Military. That is a whole different perspective.

[jimnyc]

Are you seriously threatening my life? What a piece of shit you are. I'm a local businessman with a family and no criminal record and tell me I am the problem and threaten my life. You piece of shit. Shame on you.

I read it over and over and don't see a threat. What he's saying is, IF someone becomes a threat to him, he's going to kill first. It was a generality and not directed at you personally.

"You come and try to take my guns away, you better be prepared..." also wouldn't be directed at you if I wrote it.

[pete311]

I read it over and over and don't see a threat. What he's saying is, IF someone becomes a threat to him, he's going to kill first. It was a generality and not directed at you personally.

"You come and try to take my guns away, you better be prepared..." also wouldn't be directed at you if I wrote it.

I'll accept that reasoning

[fj1200]

Sadly, I read that some of the cockroaches are already here in New York. :(

Terrorist "cockroaches" or plain vanilla Muslim "cockroaches"?


... and according to the 10th Amendment...

Ah the 10th. We hardly knew ye.

[fj1200]

You are absolutely wrong. He does NOT have the legal authority. Congress is the legislature, not the the Executive Branch.

Congress hasn't done crap in years but play party politics. I'll give you THAT one.

I don't know the particular law in question but I'll go out on a limb and say that rev is correct and Congress delegated the real work to the Executive long ago.

[jimnyc]

Terrorist "cockroaches" or plain vanilla Muslim "cockroaches"?

A cockroach is a cockroach.

[fj1200]

A cockroach is a cockroach.

Okay then.

[Gunny]

I have several times. I've been to syria, iraq, turkey, lebannon, jordan, UAE, qatar, oman, egypt. Maybe you were there via Military. That is a whole different perspective.

I lived in both Turkey and Greece. I got a good perspective. And I've been to every one of those countries and you left out about a half dozen in SE Asia.

[pete311]

A cockroach is a cockroach.

Definition of bigot

[jimnyc]

Definition of bigot

I'd rather be a bigot than a fucking idiot. I truly couldn't care less if someone sees me as a bigot. Been there and done that with the gay marriage crap, so I'm already a bigot. Being kind and trying to have a circle jerk with them is what made Paris happen.

[pete311]

retracting

[Gunny]

I'd rather be a bigot than a fucking idiot. I truly couldn't care less if someone sees me as a bigot. Been there and done that with the gay marriage crap, so I'm already a bigot. Being kind and trying to have a circle jerk with them is what made Paris happen.

Don't forget you're an unfair asshole. :laugh:

Wish y'all'd keep this running gun battle in one thread though. Getting slow in my old age.

[pete311]

I'd rather be a bigot than a fucking idiot. I truly couldn't care less if someone sees me as a bigot. Been there and done that with the gay marriage crap, so I'm already a bigot. Being kind and trying to have a circle jerk with them is what made Paris happen.

So your way is to put America in a protective bubble wrap and nuke the rest of the world. Yeah, that's a real sound plan. Not idiotic at all...

[jimnyc]

retracting

Should have left whatever you wrote. No balls there either! :laugh2: :poke:

[pete311]

Should have left whatever you wrote. No balls there either! :laugh2: :poke:
I just read Gunny's post wrong

[jimnyc]

So your way is to put America in a protective bubble wrap and nuke the rest of the world. Yeah, that's a real sound plan. Not idiotic at all...

Nope, just get rid of the majority of radicalized Islam, which is an awful lot of them. That's the main threat to the world today. The protective bubble should be in place until they are eradicated. Keep the fucks out at all costs. That's the best way to ensure the least possibilities of an attack within our borders.

[Gunny]

Should have left whatever you wrote. No balls there either! :laugh2: :poke:

DOn't know. I might go with the plan if you can get the bubble wrap. :laugh:

[jimnyc]

DOn't know. I might go with the plan if you can get the bubble wrap. :laugh:

I simply see nothing whatsoever wrong with closing our borders for now. With the state of things around the world, it's just common sense. Protect OUR citizens first. Anyone don't like it? Feel free to take in those who otherwise may have landed on our shores.

[pete311]

Nope, just get rid of the majority of radicalized Islam, which is an awful lot of them. That's the main threat to the world today. The protective bubble should be in place until they are eradicated. Keep the fucks out at all costs. That's the best way to ensure the least possibilities of an attack within our borders.

lol radical islam has been around since it's birth. The more you kill they more are motivated and recruited. You don't learn. The ideology can't be killed unless you exterminate the entire population. You guys are blinded fools if you think all these terrorists and ISIS are solely motivated due to religious fervor. A lot of ISIS recruits join simply because ISIS pays them.

[jimnyc]

lol radical islam has been around since it's birth. The more you kill they more are motivated and recruited. You don't learn. The ideology can't be killed unless you exterminate the entire population. You guys are blinded fools if you think all these terrorists and ISIS are solely motivated due to religious fervor. A lot of ISIS recruits join simply because ISIS pays them.

Sure, just let them continue their murderous ways then, and ignore them, that's how you attack the problem. Dumbass.

[pete311]

Sure, just let them continue their murderous ways then, and ignore them, that's how you attack the problem. Dumbass.

We tried Bush's way. Learn from history.

[Gunny]

We tried Bush's way. Learn from history.

Deja vu. What did I just post in the other thread. Someone blaming Bush. Why don't you try "we need to fix the situation" instead of affixing blame? I can easily blame this crap on Clinton. I actually suffered through 8 years of service with him playing Obama-lite.

[pete311]

Deja vu. What did I just post in the other thread. Someone blaming Bush. Why don't you try "we need to fix the situation" instead of affixing blame? I can easily blame this crap on Clinton. I actually suffered through 8 years of service with him playing Obama-lite.

You learn from history so you don't make the same mistakes. We learned nothing from Vietnam. You guys can't deal with the first mistake so you brush it off as dwelling in the past. I want to focus on not making the mistakes that we have to clean up later.

[Gunny]

You learn from history so you don't make the same mistakes. We learned nothing from Vietnam. You guys can't deal with the first mistake so you brush it off as dwelling in the past. I want to focus on not making the mistakes that we have to clean up later.

Let me know when you do. You seem to be willing to repeat the same wrong mistakes everyone else does. You just have a different name for it.

[pete311]

Let me know when you do. You seem to be willing to repeat the same wrong mistakes everyone else does. You just have a different name for it.

It is your endless wars that is the mistake.

[Trigg]

Once again, Donald Trump behaves like a clown, pandering to any fool who will listen to him.



If Trump wants to shut down all mosques, I want all Catholic priests arrested. To protect our children from pedophilia.

Also, if we are going to trash the first amendment, let's trash the second amendment as well.


Will be interesting to hear how he squares that off with the constitution.

Let's try going to the link and READING what he said. No where did he mention " shutting down all mosques".

I'd also like to point out the England and France are at this time considering shutting down mosques that preach hate.



“Well, you’re going to have to watch and study the mosques because a lot of talk is going on at the mosques.

“Well, I would hate to do it but it’s something that you’re going to have to strongly consider because some of the ideas and some of the hatred, the absolute hatred is coming from these areas.

[Abbey Marie]

I read it over and over and don't see a threat. What he's saying is, IF someone becomes a threat to him, he's going to kill first. It was a generality and not directed at you personally.

"You come and try to take my guns away, you better be prepared..." also wouldn't be directed at you if I wrote it.


That's how I read it. Gunny writes that way all the time- it's a general statement.

[revelarts]

Closing the boarders won't work for a REAL enemy determine to get here.

would a closed boarder to Canada or Mexico keep Gunny or any U.S military grunt out if they wanted to do mischief there?

If the NSA,CIA,FBI,DIA,IS,etc just did what they are suppose to do with the laws we have/had pre-911 we'd have no worries.
and no need to consider ineffective BS like closing boarders, spying on all muslims, etc..

[Perianne]

Closing the boarders won't work for a REAL enemy determine to get here.

would a closed boarder to Canada or Mexico keep Gunny or any U.S military grunt out if they wanted to do mischief there?

If the NSA,CIA,FBI,DIA,IS,etc just did what they are suppose to do with the laws we have/had pre-911 we'd have no worries.
and no need to consider ineffective BS like closing boarders, spying on all muslims, etc..

It's too late now, but there would be an easy way to identify people who are not supposed to be here.

[revelarts]

It's too late now, but there would be an easy way to identify people who are not supposed to be here.
Asking them to eat pork, spit on the Koran or
tattoos on their forearms?

[DragonStryk72]

I'm not scared of them, and doubt anyone else is either. But denying them entry if we can is just common sense. Keeping an extra eye on activity from mosques and similar is common sense. They have stated they want to kill us, they have acted around the world, so it would be dumb not to keep a keen eye out. Closing every mosque? Nope. Watching every refugee like hawks since our government wants them in? Damn straight. Keeping an eye on those here to an extent, keeping an eye out for radicalism? Damn straight. I don't care if it's because of their religion or not, we would be downright stupid if we didn't keep eyes out now, and I don't care if that means spying or parking cars in front of various mosques. I think being vigilant and preventing American deaths is more important than worrying about the feelings of muslims.

Funny how folks are so worried about trampling on the rights of muslims right now - while the rights of christians have been being trampled on for a few decades now.

Yes, you are. Period. It's not a debate, because you and others have already succumb to fear in this thread, same as Trump. Again, that's not a debate, it's an objective statement of fact.

I am against ANYONES 1st Amendment rights being violated, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. Pointing out that some people talk badly about Christians is an irrelevant straw man, Jim. It has no bearing on how I, a Christian, choose to comport myself. It has no bearing on you either.

Actually, again, it's not common sense, because common sense departs when we react out of fear. You are again falling into the fear trap that ISIS and other terror groups set since 9/11. As long as we continue to react out of fear, and extend that fear to all Muslims, then you continue to be a part of the most effective possible recruitment tool for ISIS, and any other would-be terror group. The sooner everyone gets that stiff upper lip working, and starts looking at their movements logically, instead of running in terror, the sooner we can get real and true victories under our belt, and end this.

Showing compassion compassion and mercy to Muslims is MORE important now than its ever been. As we look to embrace, Muslims more and more will see that were not the demons the leadership is telling them we are. However, as long as the fearful continue to make the calls born of that fear, we're going to continue to make it worse.

Fear will never defeat terror, anymore than jet fuel will defeat fire.

[jimnyc]

Yes, you are. Period.

Wow. And how about this. No I'm not - PERIOD - and you can fuck off for telling me otherwise? How does that sound? Sorry if you feel you can tell me what I'm scared of and what I'm not. I'd be brought over there with a cache of weapons tomorrow if I could. I'd give up my life to go fight ISIS at 47 if I could. They might be powerful due to their money and size, but they don't scare me. Just because I think we should protect ourselves, or destroy them, doesn't mean I have some sort of fear in me. Folks said the same about me with gays. These "phobias" simply don't exist, at least not for me. Or maybe you're scared and therefore think others are? Dunno.

[DragonStryk72]

Over two years ago obama called them the JV-TEAM!!!!
NOW TWO YEARS LATER THEY THREATEN EUROPE.

And if you think that is a false and unfounded threat, please do explain how that is the case.

Apparently the extremely small number of attackers on 9/11 doesn't seem to register with you my friend.

And that joke has now murdered over ten thousand Christians in the M.E... and displaced tens of thousands more. --TYR

Actually, THAT joke did not. OBL did that, and he's living the high life in....? That's right, hell. ISIS was born out 9f the fuck up that was Iraq. They are a potential threat... to Syria. Syria would last two weeks against us. It would be like playing swing ball with a double amputee. And yes, they're still a fucking joke. They're god damned clown shoes Tyr, nothing more. Their entire "power" is a sham, built off of, and dependent on, fear. Congratulations, you are their wet dream.

Now, I already explained how. Fuck, GUNNY could've managed a higher kill count than Paris. I mean, seriously, a bunch of AKs, bombers, and thats all they could do? Fuck, *I* could've done better. Here's how you roll it. Wait til the game let's out, and everyone hits the metro, bombs blow at multiple stations, while gunners cut off egress. By the end, you could get away with 1000+ bodies, and take to the undercity with your people still intact for more shenanigans over time.


9/11 was a fluke. A fluke that nearly cost me both of my siblings, but a fluke nonetheless. They've not managed anywhere near those numbers since, even with ample time to plan, and again, ISIS is not AQ.

Of course they're "threatening" Europe. If they don't get Europeans and Americans to act of fear, and instead help those that need, they're fucked. Again, their entire system is propped up on fear, and when we deprive them.of that fuel, THEN we will begin to choke off the growth of new terror groups.

[Jeff]

Actually, THAT joke did not. OBL did that, and he's living the high life in....? That's right, hell. ISIS was born out 9f the fuck up that was Iraq. They are a potential threat... to Syria. Syria would last two weeks against us. It would be like playing swing ball with a double amputee. And yes, they're still a fucking joke. They're god damned clown shoes Tyr, nothing more. Their entire "power" is a sham, built off of, and dependent on, fear. Congratulations, you are their wet dream.

Now, I already explained how. Fuck, GUNNY could've managed a higher kill count than Paris. I mean, seriously, a bunch of AKs, bombers, and thats all they could do? Fuck, *I* could've done better. Here's how you roll it. Wait til the game let's out, and everyone hits the metro, bombs blow at multiple stations, while gunners cut off egress. By the end, you could get away with 1000+ bodies, and take to the undercity with your people still intact for more shenanigans over time.


9/11 was a fluke. A fluke that nearly cost me both of my siblings, but a fluke nonetheless. They've not managed anywhere near those numbers since, even with ample time to plan, and again, ISIS is not AQ.

Of course they're "threatening" Europe. If they don't get Europeans and Americans to act of fear, and instead help those that need, they're fucked. Again, their entire system is propped up on fear, and when we deprive them.of that fuel, THEN we will begin to choke off the growth of new terror groups.

Yea France was just a set back I hear ya :rolleyes: to me 129 dead is much much more than a set back but your right, they didn't kill thousands so lets wait until they do to do anything about it :rolleyes: you must of read Obama's play book.

[jimnyc]

I don't want the black panther party anywhere near me. They are scum. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I don't want to anything to do with homosexuality. Not near me nor in my home. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I don't care for liberals, nor want to hang out with any of them. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I can't stand 99% of Muslims. I don't want to be with them or have them near me. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

Why do folks have a difficult time understanding this? Why does everyone mistake disgust for fear? I would walk by everyone of these folks on a dark road without a single bit of fear. Sorry if that bursts some bubbles, but not all folks are somehow afraid of things that disgust them. People eating one another's feces disgusts me too, but it doesn't scare me. Obese folks disgust me, but I don't fear them.

Is every single gun owner in the world somehow in "fear" because they own a gun? Tyr, are you a fearsome coward? Jeff, did you buy your guns because you were shaking? Gunny, weapons because you fear the enemy coming to your door?

[DragonStryk72]

Wow. And how about this. No I'm not - PERIOD - and you can fuck off for telling me otherwise? How does that sound? Sorry if you feel you can tell me what I'm scared of and what I'm not. I'd be brought over there with a cache of weapons tomorrow if I could. I'd give up my life to go fight ISIS at 47 if I could. They might be powerful due to their money and size, but they don't scare me. Just because I think we should protect ourselves, or destroy them, doesn't mean I have some sort of fear in me. Folks said the same about me with gays. These "phobias" simply don't exist, at least not for me. Or maybe you're scared and therefore think others are? Dunno.

Talks cheap, jim, and again, you already moved out of fear if you are going along with Trump on this stuff. Thats a reaction born of fear, and no amount of tough talk changes it after the fact.

If you choose to embrace real courage from here great, I'm all for it. In fact, I'm hoping maybe someone will see sense, same as Rev is hoping for. They're not powerful, they don't have size, especially since the US and Russia. Fighting foolishly to assuage a bruised ego, however, would not be brave.

And the counter accusation of fear, is just weak at best. It's a step off of "I know you are, but what am I?"

[jimnyc]

Talks cheap, jim, and again, you already moved out of fear if you are going along with Trump on this stuff. Thats a reaction born of fear, and no amount of tough talk changes it after the fact.

If you choose to embrace real courage from here great, I'm all for it. In fact, I'm hoping maybe someone will see sense, same as Rev is hoping for. They're not powerful, they don't have size, especially since the US and Russia. Fighting foolishly to assuage a bruised ego, however, would not be brave.

And the counter accusation of fear, is just weak at best. It's a step off of "I know you are, but what am I?"

Worse than that is people who can simply point fingers at others and say they are somehow afraid, in order to bolster their argument. The same BS was tried with the gay folks, as if I am somehow "afraid" of them. Bullshit. I don't need to be tough to say I don't fear them, and to tell you that you don't even fucking know me, so therefore you don't know jack shit.

The only person you can really know that about is yourself. If you're scared about something, that's your issue to deal with.

[Jeff]

I don't want the black panther party anywhere near me. They are scum. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I don't want to anything to do with homosexuality. Not near me nor in my home. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I don't care for liberals, nor want to hang out with any of them. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

I can't stand 99% of Muslims. I don't want to be with them or have them near me. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.

Why do folks have a difficult time understanding this? Why does everyone mistake disgust for fear? I would walk by everyone of these folks on a dark road without a single bit of fear. Sorry if that bursts some bubbles, but not all folks are somehow afraid of things that disgust them. People eating one another's feces disgusts me too, but it doesn't scare me. Obese folks disgust me, but I don't fear them.

Is every single gun owner in the world somehow in "fear" because they own a gun? Tyr, are you a fearsome coward? Jeff, did you buy your guns because you were shaking? Gunny, weapons because you fear the enemy coming to your door?

Jim I can't remember ever being afraid of anything, well going to prision wasn't sounding like fun, but afraid no. I own my weapons and carry them because it is my right to protect me and mine, plain and simple.

[jimnyc]

Jim I can't remember ever being afraid of anything, well going to prision wasn't sounding like fun, but afraid no. I own my weapons and carry them because it is my right to protect me and mine, plain and simple.

Some want to vilify others from the outset by declaring their beliefs are actually fears, or born out of fear. BS.

[DragonStryk72]

Yea France was just a set back I hear ya :rolleyes: to me 129 dead is much much more than a set back but your right, they didn't kill thousands so lets wait until they do to do anything about it :rolleyes: you must of read Obama's play book.

Ab good, more proof of my point, as you try to infect with fear. This fear uses sarcasm to condescend. One of the classics of weak Internet retorts.

We need to move against ISIS, but we need to move intelligently, and with the purpose of hitting ONLY ISIS, while aiding the refugees however we can. Only precision and true courage will get us past the terrorists, and tactics like this are the recruiting posters the terrorists use, just a run by of all the shit we say we're going to do to Muslims. Again, they don't even need to make anything up. They can just play Trump, a serious presidential candidate, saying he'd be in favor of moving against ALL Muslims, and we've done their work for them.

[Jeff]

Ab good, more proof of my point, as you try to infect with fear. This fear uses sarcasm to condescend. One of the classics of weak Internet retorts.

We need to move against ISIS, but we need to move intelligently, and with the purpose of hitting ONLY ISIS, while aiding the refugees however we can. Only precision and true courage will get us past the terrorists, and tactics like this are the recruiting posters the terrorists use, just a run by of all the shit we say we're going to do to Muslims. Again, they don't even need to make anything up. They can just play Trump, a serious presidential candidate, saying he'd be in favor of moving against ALL Muslims, and we've done their work for them.



Wow that sounds exactly like what Obama said in his speech the other day, news flash, moving slowly isn't working unless of course like I said, 129 dead is just a small set back and nothing to worry about, as for fear I seriously doubt it Dragon, and you have known me long enough to acuse me of a lot of things and you know you would be right, but fear just isn't one of them.

[jimnyc]

Wow that sounds exactly like what Obama said in his speech the other day, news flash, moving slowly isn't working unless of course like I said, 129 dead is just a small set back and nothing to worry about, as for fear I seriously doubt it Dragon, and you have known me long enough to acuse me of a lot of things and you know you would be right, but fear just isn't one of them.

How does it feel to be so scared, Jeff? :poke: :laugh2:

[jimnyc]

I forgot, I don't want roaches or maggots here either. While they disgust me, I'm not fearful of them. I don't even think they know how to shoot guns or wear suicide vests?

[Jeff]

How does it feel to be so scared, Jeff? :poke: :laugh2:

Jim I wouldn't know, what Dragon calls scared I call preventive maintence. It's like this, I change the oil in my bike, I put new plugs in it and I do all kinds of other things to keep it running right, I am not afraid it will break down if I don't, I just know it will. Same thing with the Muslims, afraid, not hardly, but why wait until we have a war here with these animals to take up arms and finish them, lets stop them now before it goes any further.

[jimnyc]

Jim I wouldn't know, what Dragon calls scared I call preventive maintence. It's like this, I change the oil in my bike, I put new plugs in it and I do all kinds of other things to keep it running right, I am not afraid it will break down if I don't, I just know it will. Same thing with the Muslims, afraid, not hardly, but why wait until we have a war here with these animals to take up arms and finish them, lets stop them now before it goes any further.

And now they'll just say that you're "afraid" your bike may break down, or that you're "afraid" the animals may start a war here.

[Jeff]

And now they'll just say that you're "afraid" your bike may break down, or that you're "afraid" the animals may start a war here.

I guess when a man , well a woman or a it ( not real sure what side Petey is playing ) goes through life scared to death it is easy to think most are afraid. As I said I am not afraid of my bike breaking down, I just know it will if I don't take care of it, Hell I can fix anything that breaks on it so why be afraid.

[Jeff]

I guess when a man , well a woman or a it ( not real sure what side Petey is playing ) goes through life scared to death it is easy to think most are afraid. As I said I am not afraid of my bike breaking down, I just know it will if I don't take care of it, Hell I can fix anything that breaks on it so why be afraid.

Well he is married to a black man so I guess he would be referred to as a Ho. :laugh::laugh:

[revelarts]

I don't want the black panther party anywhere near me. They are scum. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.
I don't want to anything to do with homosexuality. Not near me nor in my home. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.
I don't care for liberals, nor want to hang out with any of them. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.
I can't stand 99% of Muslims. I don't want to be with them or have them near me. I DO NOT FEAR THEM.
Why do folks have a difficult time understanding this? Why does everyone mistake disgust for fear? I would walk by everyone of these folks on a dark road without a single bit of fear. Sorry if that bursts some bubbles, but not all folks are somehow afraid of things that disgust them. People eating one another's feces disgusts me too, but it doesn't scare me. Obese folks disgust me, but I don't fear them.
Is every single gun owner in the world somehow in "fear" because they own a gun? Tyr, are you a fearsome coward? Jeff, did you buy your guns because you were shaking? Gunny, weapons because you fear the enemy coming to your door?

Jim I wouldn't know, what Dragon calls scared I call preventive maintence. It's like this, I change the oil in my bike, I put new plugs in it and I do all kinds of other things to keep it running right, I am not afraid it will break down if I don't, I just know it will. Same thing with the Muslims, afraid, not hardly, but why wait until we have a war here with these animals to take up arms and finish them, lets stop them now before it goes any further.

See this is another reason why i guess i can understand now why some people accuse me of --not liking-- or --hating-- ALL POLICE or ALL GOV'T. Because it looks like when you guys criticize or don't like something about a group you DO APLLY IT TO THE WHOLE GROUP. And set the whole group up as ONLY threats/bad/"disgusting" in your view. But here's the thing ,I think of Police like part of a family, Some are scumbag SOBs or killers that i wish would change or be jailed but the family overall is pretty good. I'm a relative as matter of fact.

But looking through the post on the board in general, I'd have to look REAL hard to find any positive statement about muslims in current times or in history. And based on the above quotes it's safe to say you guys and a few others here hate muslims.

Jim you and Jeff seem to admit here that YOU DON"T LIKE ANY or "99%"of Muslims, homosexuals or liberals.

See that's what i think is just going to far. That's what people call bigoted. It's doesn't sound like -hate the sin love the sinner- thinking.
You seem to by default assume the worse of the whole group and dehumanize them. They are all set up in your minds as dangerous "animals", less than human. A group that should be minimized or if possible destroyed "nuked" (but nuking is only a joke right:rolleyes:) They are boogie men, NONE can be trusted or helped because they'll bite, that's what bad animals do.


Is this the BEST way to approach other people? Is this the way God wants us to think?
Should we assume all Germans are potential or essentially NAZIs animals based on their history?
Should we assume all police are evil and are not to be trusted based on worse ones?
Is that fair?

1.6 billion muslims in the world, if they were all as bad as you seem to think wouldn't there be FAR more trouble in the world than we see. is there a disconnect in reality here when we label ALL muslims as bad animals.
Is "the only Good Injun' is a dead Injun" idea really the WISEST way to think about ANY group of people?
Or could it be a bit extreme?

[Gunny]

Are you seriously threatening my life? What a piece of shit you are. I'm a local businessman with a family and no criminal record and tell me I am the problem and threaten my life. You piece of shit. Shame on you.

Missed a few of these. Why would I threaten YOU? To quote a line from the movie "Soldier" ... Soldiers deserve Soldiers, sir". Think I'm going to waste my time on some civilian businessman? Not to mention just WHAT do you think I'm going to do? Jump through the screen?:laugh2:

[pete311]

Missed a few of these. Why would I threaten YOU? To quote a line from the movie "Soldier" ... Soldiers deserve Soldiers, sir". Think I'm going to waste my time on some civilian businessman? Not to mention just WHAT do you think I'm going to do? Jump through the screen?:laugh2:

Jim already explained your writing style and I take back my response.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A. Your rights haven't been trampled for a few decades,
^^^^^^^^^^ YOU ARE A DAMN LIAR....




I don't think it is even in the cards realistically speaking. Our vetting process is worlds better than Europe's problem of refugees streaming across the borders.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ AGAIN, YOU ARE A DAMN LIAR.....

Without any doubt, you are an appeasement shill for these murdering pieces of walking, talking shit.

I welcome you to ever say those two things to me--- face to face. --Tyr

[Gunny]

Jim already explained your writing style and I take back my response.

Think about it seriously. And read around some. I babysit a 4 month old about 12 hours a day. IF I even had the energy to go looking for a fight, it's not going to be over a disagreement in ideology on a message board. My posting style is who I am in real life -- an alpha male retired Marine. Straight to the point. We didn't have a lot of time to take votes and have discussion come decision time.

If you take what I post to you personally, that's on you. I don't take what you post personally unless you get personal. Got out of that business awhile back. We don't agree, I'll argue. I expect no less back. Simple as that.

[jimnyc]

Think about it seriously. And read around some. I babysit a 4 month old about 12 hours a day. IF I even had the energy to go looking for a fight, it's not going to be over a disagreement in ideology on a message board. My posting style is who I am in real life -- an alpha male retired Marine. Straight to the point. We didn't have a lot of time to take votes and have discussion come decision time.

If you take what I post to you personally, that's on you. I don't take what you post personally unless you get personal. Got out of that business awhile back. We don't agree, I'll argue. I expect no less back. Simple as that.

Got time to head to New York? I can use an ass kicking, and my wife is liable to pay you for it!! :laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

Ab good, more proof of my point, as you try to infect with fear. This fear uses sarcasm to condescend. One of the classics of weak Internet retorts.



We need to move against ISIS, but we need to move intelligently, and with the purpose of hitting ONLY ISIS, while aiding the refugees however we can. Only precision and true courage will get us past the terrorists, and tactics like this are the recruiting posters the terrorists use, just a run by of all the shit we say we're going to do to Muslims. Again, they don't even need to make anything up. They can just play Trump, a serious presidential candidate, saying he'd be in favor of moving against ALL Muslims, and we've done their work for them.


What really makes me shake my head is that you think these murdering creeps need us to act any particular way for them to recruit more murdering creeps. They teach their young children to hate, their religion fuels their hate, both of which have zero to do with our fear. And they attacked us on 9-11 before we made any of these so-called "fearful" moves against them. In case you were wondering, it is our alliance with Israel, and our "Western Ways" that make us a target. Surely you have heard of these things?

Judging by the endless strident statuses about it I see on FB alone, *I* think the pro-refugee folks are feeling quite superior about their stance, and want to appear holier-than-thou more than they want safety.

In fact, there's the real fear- fear of not appearing in line with the current PC crowd.

[fj1200]

Without any doubt, you are an appeasement shill for these murdering pieces of walking, talking shit.

I welcome you to ever say those two things to me--- face to face. --Tyr

I'm sorry that words scare you so are you going to scamper away again and continue to not threaten :rolleyes: me?

[jimnyc]

What really makes me shake my head is that you think these murdering creeps need us to act any particular way for them to recruit more murdering creeps. They teach their young children to hate, their religion fuels their hate, both of which have zero to do with our fear. And they attacked us on 9-11 before we made any of these so-called "fearful" moves against them. In case you were wondering, it is our alliance with Israel, and our "Western Ways" that make us a target. Surely you have heard of these things?

Judging by the endless strident statuses about it I see on FB alone, *I* think the pro-refugee folks are feeling quite superior about their stance, and want to appear holier-than-thou more than they want safety.

In fact, there's the real fear- fear of not appearing in line with the current PC crowd.,

Not to mention, all of the PC crap - we've done and done - and look at where it's gotten us and other civilized folks/countries. They exploit THAT is what they do.

[Abbey Marie]

See this is another reason why i guess i can understand now why some people accuse me of --not liking-- or --hating-- ALL POLICE or ALL GOV'T. Because it looks like when you guys criticize or don't like something about a group you DO APLLY IT TO THE WHOLE GROUP. And set the whole group up as ONLY threats/bad/"disgusting" in your view. But here's the thing ,I think of Police like part of a family, Some are scumbag SOBs or killers that i wish would change or be jailed but the family overall is pretty good. I'm a relative as matter of fact.

But looking through the post on the board in general, I'd have to look REAL hard to find any positive statement about muslims in current times or in history. And based on the above quotes it's safe to say you guys and a few others here hate muslims.

Jim you and Jeff seem to admit here that YOU DON"T LIKE ANY or "99%"of Muslims, homosexuals or liberals.
...



Re: the bolded- it's kind of hard to feel anything positive about a group that started with and still deifies a pedophile husband of a 9 year old. :dunno:

Now if they started condemning and distancing themselves from their founder, stopped Jihad, and ceased making statements like, "We will drive Israel into the sea", we might have something to start with.

[jimnyc]

Re: the bolded- it's kind of hard to feel anything positive about a group that started with and still deifies a pedophile husband of a 9 year old. :dunno:

Now if they started condemning and distancing themselves from their founder, stopped Jihad, and ceased making statements like, "We will drive Israel into the sea", we might have something to start with.

Also not a lot of positive things to add about muslims when there really isn't a lot of positive things to talk about.

Ok, here - there were less people killed in Paris today than there were the other day. :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Re: the bolded- it's kind of hard to feel anything positive about a group that started with and still deifies a pedophile husband of a 9 year old. :dunno:

Now if they started condemning and distancing themselves from their founder, stopped Jihad, and ceased making statements like, "We will drive Israel into the sea", we might have something to start with.
---Abbey you know i luvs ya, but strong word a comin' just to make a point.--

As a roman Catholic are you sure you want to start off with pointing out pedophilla?

My point is that NOT all muslims are evil or animals or whatever other negative stereo type is tossed out.
they are human beings just like YOU.
Create by God JUST LIKE YOU.

you know i think Islam is a FLASE religion based on lies however the people deceived by that religion are PEOPLE and as such they've done some good and evil and some in-between. As muslims they've done some good and evil.

And they don't have to collectively denounce everything every Muslim ever does before i consider them humans anymore than every Roman Catholic has to start every sentence by apologizing or denouncing the pedophile priest that ARE STILL unpunished or exposed in the church. There are some positive things the Roman catholic church has done and some negative some grey.
Do i get to judge YOU and all Catholics on the good or the bad or should I use BOTH and the grey in the middle and then maybe even get to know you personally before i decide if you're an "animal" who hates children or a saint or an woman just trying to make it in the world.

Can you see what i'm saying at all here?

[jimnyc]

Do Catholics revere someone who is a pedo? BIG difference, as I don't know a single catholic/christian in the world who does - and yet muslims will defend that very issue, even today. Even today the kids are often married off and have sex at very young ages and are obviously abused.

It's hilarious when some try and make some sort of connection, which is impossible to do.

[revelarts]

Do Catholics revere someone who is a pedo? BIG difference, as I don't know a single catholic/christian in the world who does - and yet muslims will defend that very issue, even today. Even today the kids are often married off and have sex at very young ages and are obviously abused.

It's hilarious when some try and make some sort of connection, which is impossible to do.
what's hilarious is how people complexity avoid the point made.
Muhammed was a pedo, no doubt. But did you miss the part where i said Islam is a false religion.

But please answer me this.
If you're an alter boy with some new Priest riding your butt -and Church authorities cover it up-
or If you're an Afghan boy with some Muslim cops riding your butt -and Muslim authorities cover it up-
is there so much of a difference at that point?

[jimnyc]

what's hilarious is how people complexity avoid the point made.
Muhammed was a pedo, no doubt. But did you miss the part where i said Islam is a false religion.

But please answer me this.
If you're an alter boy with some new Priest riding your butt -and Church authorities cover it up-
or If you're an Afghan boy with some Muslim cops riding your butt -and Muslim authorities cover it up-
is there so much of a difference at that point?

No difference. But that's not nearly the point. We're talking about an ENTIRE religion that OK's sex and marriage with younger girls. And they idolize and defend the person that set it in motion. I hardly think that the entire religion of christians/catholics want to protect or condone arranged marriages and such with younger gals. You tried to make Abbey's post sound wrong by some sort of weird comparison towards christians. Otherwise, not sure why you started out by bringing up christians and pedophiles. But you did, and I correctly pointed out that there is barely a comparison to be made.

[glockmail]

Every denomination has pedos in their leadership, most higher percentage thn Catholics. School teachers have a much higher percentage. So just don't do there with the Catholics.

[revelarts]

No difference. But that's not nearly the point. We're talking about an ENTIRE religion that OK's sex and marriage with younger girls. And they idolize and defend the person that set it in motion. I hardly think that the entire religion of christians/catholics want to protect or condone arranged marriages and such with younger gals. You tried to make Abbey's post sound wrong by some sort of weird comparison towards christians. Otherwise, not sure why you started out by bringing up christians and pedophiles. But you did, and I correctly pointed out that there is barely a comparison to be made.

I guess we just disagree on how to make points.

Abby asked that Muslims 1ST renounce or denounce a LIST of Muslim items.
I pointed out that Roman Catholics have a few items they could renounce as well.
simple as that.

I clearly did not make a 1 to 1 comparison between all aspects of the religions.

the comparison is on how we approach people WITHEN the respective religions.
Do we START by FINDING every fault of the religion and it's adherent and demand renunciation BEFORE we consider them worthy to speak to?
Or do we start with strangers as human beings 1st?
that's the point.

[jimnyc]

Or do we start with a strangers as human beings 1st?

They can be human beings - and place their tents elsewhere. Or better yet, so that folks don't start whining and crying - how about give them donations and THEN point out all of the tons of places they can go to without having to cross oceans. The overwhelming majority of muslims have made it clear that they are not fond of the west or the western lifestyle.

I wish them the best while they tent up with their brethren in other islamic countries. Surely everyone who is concerned will be speaking out, and demanding that other muslim countries take them in, and talking about how it's right for them to do so, and maybe even have the UN involved to get them to do so.

Enjoy your new lives, human beings.

[Gunny]

They can be human beings - and place their tents elsewhere. Or better yet, so that folks don't start whining and crying - how about give them donations and THEN point out all of the tons of places they can go to without having to cross oceans. The overwhelming majority of muslims have made it clear that they are not fond of the west or the western lifestyle.

I wish them the best while they tent up with their brethren in other islamic countries. Surely everyone who is concerned will be speaking out, and demanding that other muslim countries take them in, and talking about how it's right for them to do so, and maybe even have the UN involved to get them to do so.

Enjoy your new lives, human beings.

How about instead of running like a bunch of p*ssies, fight for your own damned country? They want to run away and let us do what they should have already done. If you won't fight for your own damned yard, you don't rate in my book.

[Abbey Marie]

---Abbey you know i luvs ya, but strong word a comin' just to make a point.--

As a roman Catholic are you sure you want to start off with pointing out pedophilla?

My point is that NOT all muslims are evil or animals or whatever other negative stereo type is tossed out.
they are human beings just like YOU.
Create by God JUST LIKE YOU.

you know i think Islam is a FLASE religion based on lies however the people deceived by that religion are PEOPLE and as such they've done some good and evil and some in-between. As muslims they've done some good and evil.

And they don't have to collectively denounce everything every Muslim ever does before i consider them humans anymore than every Roman Catholic has to start every sentence by apologizing or denouncing the pedophile priest that ARE STILL unpunished or exposed in the church. There are some positive things the Roman catholic church has done and some negative some grey.
Do i get to judge YOU and all Catholics on the good or the bad or should I use BOTH and the grey in the middle and then maybe even get to know you personally before i decide if you're an "animal" who hates children or a saint or an woman just trying to make it in the world.

Can you see what i'm saying at all here?


Luv ya too, Rev. Seriously, I think you are the real deal.

But, I am not Catholic, Roman or otherwise.
That's Kathianne. Do we all sound alike to you? (I kid, I kid!)

To your points, I've not heard of one gay pedophile priest going elsewhere to recruit other gay pedophile priests to abuse young boys. It was kept quite contained within the clergy. So in terms of national threats, not so much.

I have not to my knowledge ever said we should condemn every Muslim. Where did I say that? What I DO believe is that there are a wide spectrum of actions between total condemnation, and putting one's head in the sand just to be PC and/or bleeding heart about it all. And I know that in the past I have stated on this board that the Iranian people, for example, are normal and smart and very much being abused themselves by their leaders, at this point.

In addition to possible terrorism, as a Christian and the board's erstwhile guardian of individual liberties, I would hope that you especially would not want to let an (eventually) state-sponsored religion that hates Christians, Jews, and tons of other freedoms, get even a tiny foothold in this country.

[revelarts]

Luv ya too, Rev. Seriously, I think you are the real deal.

But, I am not Catholic, Roman or otherwise.
That's Kathianne. Do we all sound alike to you? (I kid, I kid!)

To your points, I've not heard of one gay pedophile priest going elsewhere to recruit other gay pedophile priests to abuse young boys. It was kept quite contained within the clergy. So in terms of national threats, not so much.

I have not to my knowledge ever said we should condemn every Muslim. Where did I say that? What I DO believe is that there is a wide spectrum of actions between total condemnation, and putting one's head in the sand just to be PC and/or bleeding heart about it all. And I know that in the past I have stated on this board that the Iranian people, for example, are normal and smart and very much being abused themselves by their leaders, at this point.

In addition to possible terrorism, as a Christian and the board's erstwhile guardian of individual liberties, I would hope that you especially would not want to let an (eventually) state-sponsored religion that hates Christians, Jews, and tons of other freedoms, get even a tiny foothold in this country.

Well Honestly Everyone DOES look alike for sitting in front of the computer like this.
can't tell the Muslims from the RCs or the 1/4 indians from the old gezzers.

everyone seems to be human beings trying to make there way in the world.

But I can appreciate your and everyones frustration and the tendency to lean dark against islam in general.
And I think you know I don't trim my opinion to fit the left PC or conservative cheerleading squads. But i don't think we want to lead with fear or anger or generic blame when specific people are to blame.
And that we should lead with human compassion and reason as best we can.

Of course I'm leary of Sharia and muslims view of constitutional freedoms, no matter which way i turn people seem to want to ruin our freedoms for some "good" reason.
But part of that freedom is at least trying to find a way to make it work for as many as possible. that includes jews muslims Mormans RCs Atheist, Buddhist left and right etc.
we need to promote the principals and hold to them no matter what "threats" I just don't see these homeless people as a threat to freedom or an group that we are UNABLE to filter.


We've got to be diligent but not completely exclusionary.

[Gunny]

Got time to head to New York? I can use an ass kicking, and my wife is liable to pay you for it!! :laugh:

Dude, I barely got time to run to Circle K for smokes.

[WiccanLiberal]

So Donald wants to shut down mosques and register all Muslims with "special" IDs. Guess what. My father was one of the generation who fought a war against that kind of legislated hate. Registering a specific religion with identifiers?? How is that in any way American? He disgusts me and should do the same to any real American.

[Black Diamond]

So Donald wants to shut down mosques and register all Muslims with "special" IDs. Guess what. My father was one of the generation who fought a war against that kind of legislated hate. Registering a specific religion with identifiers?? How is that in any way American? He disgusts me and should do the same to any real American.

I have a compromise.

[LongTermGuy]

So Donald wants to shut down mosques and register all Muslims with "special" IDs. Guess what. My father was one of the generation who fought a war against that kind of legislated hate. Registering a specific religion with identifiers?? How is that in any way American? He disgusts me and should do the same to any real American.


Islam is a cult of death...with only `one koran`...many who are still brain-washed and "PC" still insist calling it a religion....You say.. "That kind of legislated hate".... ya...many hate these ruthless bastard Islamic killers...There are many in our country still reading their "One and only koran" and going to their Mosques doing their thing...Your Political correctness sucks and will get many Americans Killed......`Islam` and western values *DO NOT MIX....Why is it that Islamist `just Love going to other countries` (which they consider Infidels)...instead of staying where they are and enjoying their own Beliefs and customs (Sheria-law IN THE KORAN)....?

​LIBERALISM Is the Fuel for Islam and emboldens the Cult....cause they feel safe....Yet westerners do not feel safe in Islamic countries....


(​Donald Trump 2016! Cure for Naive Liberal Ignorance...Illegal Parasites and muslim roaches....

[LongTermGuy]

Islam is a cult of death...with only `one koran`...many who are still brain-washed and "PC" still insist calling it a religion....You say.. "That kind of legislated hate".... ya...many hate these ruthless bastard Islamic killers...There are many in our country still reading their "One and only koran" and going to their Mosques doing their thing...Your Political correctness sucks and will get many Americans Killed......`Islam` and western values *DO NOT MIX....Why is it that Islamist `just Love going to other countries` (which they consider Infidels)...instead of staying where they are and enjoying their own Beliefs and customs (Sheria-law IN THE KORAN)....?

​LIBERALISM Is the Fuel for Islam and emboldens the Cult....cause they feel safe....Yet westerners do not feel safe in Islamic countries....


(​Donald Trump 2016! Cure for Naive Liberal Ignorance...Illegal Parasites and muslim roaches....



​Why does the Left continues to support Proven Failure of `appeasement and Tolerance` when it comes to Islam?....*Look at Europe and the latest news....They Tried the appeasement...acceptance..."Love and kisses" with muslims (*who insist on infesting other countries)..... Hillary / `o` are for the Love of Islam (appeasement Tolerance)....are they special...different?..... Were / are their Policies effective and successful In America...or were they Failures..? The answer is obvious....

[Russ]

Setting aside the Islamic religion for a moment, I'd just like to point out a few facts:

1. Most of the Syrian "refugees" are not true refugees. They are non-refugees that are trying to use refugee status to do an end-run around the immigration rules for Europe and the US. If they were true refugees, they would have women, children, and old people with them. And there are plenty of reporters that have interviewed Syrian, Iraqis, Afghans, and Pakistanis that have freely admitted that they sneaked into refugee groups.

2. There is virtually no data on the Syrian refugees. No matter what the Obama administration says about vetting them, they have no data available to actually vet any of these people.

3. We already know from Paris that ISIS is sneaking terrorists into the Syrian refugee groups. Could be 20 terrorists - could be 20,000 terrorists. We can be pretty sure it is not zero terrorists.

4. Most important - We, and Europe, are really at war with ISIS. A lot of rules have to change during a state of war.

[Abbey Marie]

I guess we just disagree on how to make points.

Abby asked that Muslims 1ST renounce or denounce a LIST of Muslim items.
I pointed out that Roman Catholics have a few items they could renounce as well.
simple as that.

I clearly did not make a 1 to 1 comparison between all aspects of the religions.

the comparison is on how we approach people WITHEN the respective religions.
Do we START by FINDING every fault of the religion and it's adherent and demand renunciation BEFORE we consider them worthy to speak to?
Or do we start with strangers as human beings 1st?
that's the point.


As far as I can tell, the average Catholic does denounce these sick behaviors.

[Perianne]

Setting aside the Islamic religion for a moment, I'd just like to point out a few facts:

1. Most of the Syrian "refugees" are not true refugees. They are non-refugees that are trying to use refugee status to do an end-run around the immigration rules for Europe and the US. If they were true refugees, they would have women, children, and old people with them. And there are plenty of reporters that have interviewed Syrian, Iraqis, Afghans, and Pakistanis that have freely admitted that they sneaked into refugee groups.

2. There is virtually no data on the Syrian refugees. No matter what the Obama administration says about vetting them, they have no data available to actually vet any of these people.

3. We already know from Paris that ISIS is sneaking terrorists into the Syrian refugee groups. Could be 20 terrorists - could be 20,000 terrorists. We can be pretty sure it is not zero terrorists.

4. Most important - We, and Europe, are really at war with ISIS. A lot of rules have to change during a state of war.

A friend of mine sent me a photo today of a bowl of M&Ms. It said

"One of these M&Ms will kill you. Go ahead, grab a handful."

Accepting these Syrian refugees is like playing Russian Roulette.

[Jeff]

There are thousands of these refuges running and looking for a place to live, and up until the other day ( when Obama gave his speech ) all pictures where of 95 % men, they now say it is like 75% woman and children ( I still haven't seen a picture to back that. But why didn't these men fight for their homes ? And then this morning I see where one of the refuges tried to enter the US with a stolen pass port, wow, such fine folks but yet they are destroying and demanding things where ever they go, and now a report of them stealing a pass port to enter illegally.

Christie said he has some of the refuges in NJ, he was never even told they where coming, but he knows now and they couldn't find one, seems this guy took off to another state, they now have his where a bouts but why did he take off in the first place.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm sorry that words scare you so are you going to scamper away again and continue to not threaten :rolleyes: me?


scamper away again

DUMBASS, I HAVE NO NEED TO EXPLAIN TO YOU NOR ANYBODY ELSE WHY I AM ABSENT SO MUCH HERE LATELY. I have a very busy life and mostly in doesn't include looking for your posts and dumbass replies in which he lie, spin and attempt to appease the muslims.


continue to not threaten

Your sarcasm noted,
I made no threat stupid, as I have no intention ever ever bothering to meet your weasely , cowardly little ass anywhere. As a PUNK LIKE YOU , would bring me absolutely no pride in breaking like a twig.
Yet my showing you up for the appeasing piece of crap you are here ,brings me some bit of satisfaction.
As it seems somehow here you have have managed to completely fool so many members here for so long!
An appeasing shill you are and its damn sure not for our side! -Tyr

[fj1200]

... ABSENT...

Who said anything about absent? You whine and complain, not threaten :rolleyes: and scamper off to your little corner of hate and fear of anything you don't understand. It's not really my fault that you are such an extremely poor judge of character. :shrug: Anyway, let me know when you have something, anything, of substance to add.

[Drummond]

DUMBASS, I HAVE NO NEED TO EXPLAIN TO YOU NOR ANYBODY ELSE WHY I AM ABSENT SO MUCH HERE LATELY. I have a very busy life and mostly in doesn't include looking for your posts and dumbass replies in which he lie, spin and attempt to appease the muslims.



Your sarcasm noted,
I made no threat stupid, as I have no intention ever ever bothering to meet your weasely , cowardly little ass anywhere. As a PUNK LIKE YOU , would bring me absolutely no pride in breaking like a twig.
Yet my showing you up for the appeasing piece of crap you are here ,brings me some bit of satisfaction.
As it seems somehow here you have have managed to completely fool so many members here for so long!
An appeasing shill you are and its damn sure not for our side! -Tyr:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[fj1200]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I didn't think you'd have much to add either.

[Drummond]

Who said anything about absent? You whine and complain, not threaten :rolleyes: and scamper off to your little corner of hate and fear of anything you don't understand. It's not really my fault that you are such an extremely poor judge of character. :shrug: Anyway, let me know when you have something, anything, of substance to add.

Serving what purpose ?

I've proved that you're no Thatcherite (not least purely by logical process). Or, if you ever 'were', or ever 'could be', that in turn would demolish your 'I am against all Big Government methodology' so-called stance. Either way ... you're provably a fraud. You don't add up.

That you save your strongest attacks for the staunchest, least compromisingly expressive Conservatives here, also says volumes. As do the non-Conservative stances you're noted for taking (never supporting anti-Obama calls, such as for his impeachment .. or, unfailingly supporting TERRORIST HUMAN RIGHTS. Etc etc).

These are all matters of record, right here on this forum, yet still you won't yield to the blindingly obvious. That you CANNOT be as advertised.

Tyr is no poor judge of character, FJ, very far from it. He knows what you are all too well. As do I.

Now give me a typically troll response.

[fj1200]

Tyr is no poor judge of character, FJ...

He knows he is. He's probably had about five different opinions of me and that's probably why he's so cheesed off now. But for your Thatcherite failures there are plenty of other threads you've run away from. Substance coming from you soon?

[Drummond]

He knows he is. He's probably had about five different opinions of me and that's probably why he's so cheesed off now. But for your Thatcherite failures there are plenty of other threads you've run away from. Substance coming from you soon?

My 'Thatcherite failures' .. ? What are you talking about ?

Do I detect a measure of anti-Thatcher disparagement in that remark ? And you, the, ahem, 'One True Thatcherite' .. ?

I do not 'run away' from threads, though I've been known to abandon them if continuing with them is pointless. Such as, when 'reasoning' with an anti-Conservative troll such as yourself, and getting only troll rubbish from you in response.

[fj1200]

I do not 'run away' ...

It's a full out sprint when I point out the failures of your imagination and your "Thatcherite" meme that you unceasingly troll into almost every thread.

[Drummond]

It's a full out sprint when I point out the failures of your imagination and your "Thatcherite" meme that you unceasingly troll into almost every thread.

Another sure sign of a Leftie supporter is when they insist upon seeing things their way, even though reality says otherwise. What I do where you're concerned is expose you as a fraud. I do not 'run away' from threads, I simply know when continuing to argue serves no purpose.

You, by contrast, like to 'keep me hooked', so that you can indulge in yet more of your trolling. All this, because .. 'you're such a good Conservative' .. ?? :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Another...

... full out sprint to be sure. Anything to add to the subject?

[Russ]

It's a full out sprint when I point out the failures of your imagination and your "Thatcherite" meme that you unceasingly troll into almost every thread.

FJ, you're like the American media I've been talking about with Rev. You like to stir things up and get people riled, and then walk away. How about a cohesive argument, or backup for the sniping? Both seem to be missing.

[fj1200]

FJ, you're like the American media I've been talking about with Rev. You like to stir things up and get people riled, and then walk away. How about a cohesive argument, or backup for the sniping? Both seem to be missing.

I make cohesive arguments all the time and rarely walk from a discussion; very few cohesive arguments are presented to me however. Things only get riled up because many folks here actually bristle at debate and discussion, they prefer to talk to others of like mind.

[Drummond]

I make cohesive arguments all the time and rarely walk from a discussion; very few cohesive arguments are presented to me however. Things only get riled up because many folks here actually bristle at debate and discussion, they prefer to talk to others of like mind.

I see. So, when you indulge in abusive versions of requotes, this is because you've 'bristled at debate and discussion' .. ? It's actually 'not' purely a straight attack on anyone offering a Conservative viewpoint you want / need to ridicule, then ?

Fact is that you 'bristle at debate and discussion' when such discussion counters you too effectively. You then employ an alternative to it, rather than ever concede when you're in error.

[Gunny]

FJ, you're like the American media I've been talking about with Rev. You like to stir things up and get people riled, and then walk away. How about a cohesive argument, or backup for the sniping? Both seem to be missing.

If THAT ain't no sh*t. ....:laugh: His avatar should be :poke:.

[Abbey Marie]

If THAT ain't no sh*t. ....:laugh: His avatar should be :poke:.


Lol. I realized that I subconsciously think of this icon :poke: as "The fj1200".


(And I know fj would be proud to have such a cool icon named after him :cool:).

[jimnyc]

Lol. I realized that I subconsciously think of this icon :poke: as "The fj1200".


(And I know fj would be proud to have such a cool icon named after him :cool:).

I want the FU smiley named after me!!

[Abbey Marie]

I want the FU smiley named after me!!


I think of caffeinated Jim more this way:

:hyper:

[jimnyc]

I think of caffeinated Jim more this way:

:hyper:

Can I have them both then? I usually get angrier the more hyped up I get anyway. :)

[Abbey Marie]

Can I have them both then? I usually get angrier the more hyped up I get anyway. :)


You da boss, you can have all of them! But I think we all know which one really suits you best
(Hint: I never use it :eek:).

[Gunny]

I think of caffeinated Jim more this way:

:hyper:

Yeah, that's more him after a couple of cups than the FU smiley. :laugh:

[fj1200]

I see.

No you don't. And especially you do not offer cohesive arguments. You rant and whine about lefties and your imaginary musings.

[jimnyc]

No you don't. And especially you do not offer cohesive arguments. You rant and whine about lefties and your imaginary musings.

Saw something the other day about you saying you want to debate and such, but folks here really don't want to. (or similar). But I notice, for example, when you go back and forth with Drummond, the majority of the time you cut his posts down to a word or 2 and then reply with something sarcastically. Is that debate? Wouldn't it be better to actually debate, or ignore, or at least leave the entire thing there and attempt to debate the actual facts? And yes, the same goes for him, or anyone else that should debate with you. But I notice it more and more from you. And you were the one who stated that others don't want to debate, which is why I ask you right now...

[fj1200]

FJ, you're like the American media I've been talking about with Rev. You like to stir things up and get people riled, and then walk away. How about a cohesive argument, or backup for the sniping? Both seem to be missing.

I'm still here. :) An example of a non-cohesive argument would be more effective, and for goodness sake appreciated, than merely telling me what you think I do and don't do. As a follow up I think anyone here should be willing to call out an ineffective, non-conservative argument when presented and attempted to be passed off as conservative. Even for example when Trump, allegedly, proposes to act against the Constitution in the same manner as the current White House resident.


If THAT ain't no sh*t. ....:laugh: His avatar should be :poke:.

Except for the walking away bit why do you want a bunch of yes-posters agreeing with each other?


Lol. I realized that I subconsciously think of this icon :poke: as "The fj1200".


(And I know fj would be proud to have such a cool icon named after him :cool:).

I'm much deeper than merely one icon. :poke:

:martian:

[fj1200]

But I notice, for example, when you go back and forth with Drummond, the majority of the time you cut his posts down to a word or 2 and then reply with something sarcastically. Is that debate? ... which is why I ask you right now...

No it's not. But debate is not presented to me, his imagination and repetitive false premises, not to mention off-topic trolling, do not fit the bill. :)

As I said, I'll debate when I get some and I hope you ask others right now...

[jimnyc]

No it's not. But debate is not presented to me, his imagination and repetitive false premises, not to mention off-topic trolling, do not fit the bill. :)

I'll say no more. I will admit it's primarily only when you engage Drummond. I still don't get it. If that's how you see his posts, then why bother at all? But that's up to you 2 guys.

[jimnyc]

No it's not. But debate is not presented to me, his imagination and repetitive false premises, not to mention off-topic trolling, do not fit the bill. :)

As I said, I'll debate when I get some and I hope you ask others right now...

I see you added a little extra. I only asked you as I noticed an awful lot as of late that you snipped almost his entire posts prior to replying. That's why I asked. I'd ask others if they were doing the same. I've asked Drummond about this personal issue between you guys more times than I can count, and I can count well over a billion. I gave up on you 2 guys stopping the battling. This was a little outside of that. And honestly, I've not asked you about these things nearly as much as others. Just thought I'd pass it on by.

[reason10]

The Hell with a trade. Lets just go take what is ours and get rid of the trash.

Sometimes you're faced with very few options. I just read where ISIS cut the heads off CHILDREN because they wouldn't convert to Islam.

It's time for America to open a can of whoopass.

[fj1200]

I'll say no more. I will admit it's primarily only when you engage Drummond. I still don't get it. If that's how you see his posts, then why bother at all? But that's up to you 2 guys.

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be working responding to only what might be relevant.


I see you added a little extra. I only asked you as I noticed an awful lot as of late that you snipped almost his entire posts prior to replying. That's why I asked. I'd ask others if they were doing the same. I've asked Drummond about this personal issue between you guys more times than I can count, and I can count well over a billion. I gave up on you 2 guys stopping the battling. This was a little outside of that. And honestly, I've not asked you about these things nearly as much as others. Just thought I'd pass it on by.

I'm doing my best to stopping the battling and trying to remain relevant to actual topic threads. I started a whole thread about how one should respond to those with whom they disagree; maybe my efforts won't do any good no matter how I respond because he has preconceived notions. I hope you notice that I have changed how I respond to him though. :)

And it's not like I limit my editing of posts down to only him, I do it to everyone so that people know what I'm replying to. I don't see it as a big deal that others do.

[Drummond]

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be working responding to only what might be relevant.

The big problem with you is that you refuse to post honestly.

I've posted proofs, repeatedly, that you HAVE to be fraudulent .. and that the direction you take, when you provide detailed posts which rely on you initiating rather than responding, is that which a Leftie would take. Yet you insist upon claiming you're not.

The fighting we do is wholly unnecessary. It's easily cured: just start BEING HONEST. You never were any form of 'Ultimate' or 'One True' Thatcherite, and you only billed yourself as one to be abusive. Further, when tested, your thinking veers to Left-wing opinion, such as your refusal to ever support calls for action against Obama, such as your determined support for terrorists' human rights, such as your support for anti-austerity fiscal conduct, this in line with multiple LEFT WING political Parties overseas.

And yet, still, you claim to be a Conservative.

You want debate ? OK, here's a challenge. Come clean about what exactly you believe, and truthfully, WHY. Then, from that basis, debate can flow.


And it's not like I limit my editing of posts down to only him, I do it to everyone so that people know what I'm replying to. I don't see it as a big deal that others do.

Yes, you do.

Objections:

1. It's pure trolling behaviour. Were you to be a GENUINE Conservative, such behaviour should be beneath you. But, it's not.

2. You resort to such behaviour partly in the hope of antagonising, but mainly because you know, as I'm sure others here do too, that you cannot properly hold your own in what is, after all, FRAUDULENT debate. Since you can't do that, you just disreputably attack, instead.

And, you reserve your strongest and nastiest attacks for the staunchest Conservatives here .. Conservatives WHO SEE THROUGH you.

Debating honestly would cure much if not most of all this. For as long as you refuse to, though, this stupid status quo is maintained.

-- Unless, of course, we just ignore you. That would be another solution.

[Perianne]

...
1. It's pure trolling behaviour. Were you to be a GENUINE Conservative, such behaviour should be beneath you. But, it's not.
...


If he were a genuine conservative, he would agree with everything I say, or you say, as we are genuine conservatives.

But he would more likely agree with me because I am prettier.

[Drummond]

If he were a genuine conservative, he would agree with everything I say, or you say, as we are genuine conservatives.

But he would more likely agree with me because I am prettier.

Well - exactly ! QED !!:happy0100:

[fj1200]

The big problem with you is that you refuse to post honestly.

Oh geez. I can't control your ignorant imagination.


... he would agree with everything I say, or you say, as we are genuine conservatives.

Conservatism is not racist rhetoric.


Well - exactly ! QED !!

Conservatism is not big government.

[Gunny]

Except for the walking away bit why do you want a bunch of yes-posters agreeing with each other?



I'm much deeper than merely one icon. :poke:

:martian:

Nah. Doesn't mean I'm not going to screw with you about it though.

No blasphemy though. I like Marvin the Martian.

[Perianne]

Conservatism is not racist rhetoric.


fj, you must be a Negro. Only Negros find my rhetoric racist.

[fj1200]

fj, you must be a Negro. Only Negros find my rhetoric racist.

How many times have you been wrong now?

[Perianne]

How many times have you been wrong now?

I'm still looking for the first time. :) :) :)

[fj1200]

I'm still looking for the first time. :) :) :)

I think you're approaching a baker's dozen but you can't find when you do not seek.

[jimnyc]

I'm still looking for the first time. :) :) :)

I've never been wrong before either!!

At least not today. Not since 2:56 EST anyway. :)

[Abbey Marie]

I think you're approaching a baker's dozen but you can't find when you do not seek.

:laugh2:
That sentence reminded me of him:

http://billystrean.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/yoda.jpg

[Russ]

The big problem with you is that you refuse to post honestly.

1. It's pure trolling behaviour. Were you to be a GENUINE Conservative, such behaviour should be beneath you. But, it's not.



FJ, this is the epitomy of what I was talking about before, regarding your posts. You get into this mantra that Drummond isn't a "GENUINE Conservative".

First of all, who give a rat's *ss if someone is a "GENUINE" Conservative" (whatever that is), a 100% Conservative, or a 65% Conservative, or a 35% Conservative? All I care about is how well-reasoned the points are that they state. To my thinking, Conservatives by far have the most well-reasoned points, but I don't care what label the person has before they start talking. It is simple: have they made a good point, and have they thought everything all the way through. If yes, they deserve to be listened to. If no, then they are just like most people.

I have to say that after being on the board a few months, I have a much better idea of what Drummond stands for than I do of what you stand for. Drummond seems noticably conservative to me. You, I don't know - you might be conservative, but I can't tell. Maybe you're liberal. Or maybe you're just contrarian. .

Second of all, telling Drummond he is not a true Conservative is a well-known hot button for him, and I think we all know that that is the only reason you do it. You're just trying to rile him up. Cut it out.

[Jeff]

fj, you must be a Negro. Only Negros find my rhetoric racist.


How many times have you been wrong now?

Yup Fj is a black Liberal !!! I have proof. :laugh:

[Jeff]

Here is a picture of Fj waiting in line at Walmart.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7980&stc=1

[fj1200]

Yup Fj is a black Liberal !!! I have proof. :laugh:

Hey, you promised you wouldn't take pictures of me after we went to church. :mad:


Here is a picture of Fj waiting in line at Walmart.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7980&stc=1

:poke:

[fj1200]

Cut it out.

Your words may carry a bit more weight with me if you were to direct the same message the other way. I don't give a rat's A** either what he is but if he's going to blather "leftie" into every thread then he'll get what he gets. :) I'll discuss any ideas with anyone but I don't give his imaginary rantings any due.