Paris Under Siege

[Christie Brinkley]

Bombs and shootings have killed at least 30 people around Paris

Witnesses have reported seeing two armed men entering the building and opening fire.
According to local media reports, the shootings happened outside a restaurant in the 10th arrondissement, not far from the offices on magazine publisher Charlie Hebdo.
Witnesses have described seeing bodies lying in the street.
According to those same reports, the gunmen have not been caught.
Elsewhere in the capital, several explosions took place near the Stade de France, where the national football team was playing Germany.
President Francois Hollande was inside the stadium at the time, but has since been rushes to the Interior Ministry to deal with the unfolding situation.
An Associated Press reporter who was at the stadium has reported hearing two explosions that were loud enough to penetrate the sound of cheering fans.


http://news.sky.com/story/1587373/paris-restaurant-shootings-and-blasts-kill-26

[Christie Brinkley]

15 dead in concert hall

Restaurant shootings

2 bombings at stadium


Now 60 being taken hostage

[Christie Brinkley]

35 dead

Now 100 being taken hostage

Paris in "chaos"

[Christie Brinkley]

40 dead now... unbelievable.

[gabosaurus]

The attacks centered around a popular Paris cafe and a sold out concert at the Bataclan featuring the band Eagles of Death Metal.

http://www.stereogum.com/1843922/fatalities-hostages-taken-at-eagles-of-death-metal-concert-in-paris/news/

Live streaming coverage available on the English web site of the France 24 network.

http://www.france24.com/en/livefeed

[Christie Brinkley]

Suicide bomb attack kills 15

[Christie Brinkley]

Bomb which killed 3 at the stadium

Can be heard at the stadium

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=ee87b997f8b8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Christie Brinkley]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7934&stc=1

[jimnyc]

Spreading and spreading. Does anyone doubt that they will be not only muslim, but likely supporters of ISIS? All happening at the same time, this was/is a coordinated terrorist attack.

[Christie Brinkley]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7935&stc=1


Tonight horror again ... We suspend our campaigns until further notice.

[Christie Brinkley]

Shooting at a shopping complex now


Now up to 60 dead

[Gunny]

Spreading and spreading. Does anyone doubt that they will be not only muslim, but likely supporters of ISIS? All happening at the same time, this was/is a coordinated terrorist attack.

I'm tired of these damned wimps. Kill them all.

[Christie Brinkley]

People on the floor shot

https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/665299050057494529

[Gunny]

People on the floor shot

https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/665299050057494529

You like inciting everyone that just woke up, or just me? People like you are part of the problem. You want to throw words at this crap. Try using a rifle and throwing some lead. It cures a LOT.

[Christie Brinkley]

the president has declared a state of emergency and announced that France will close its borders

[PixieStix]

This is exactly why we need to close our borders. Political correctness running amok! It is the number 1 killer today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.html

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Bombs and shootings have killed at least 30 people around Paris

Witnesses have reported seeing two armed men entering the building and opening fire.
According to local media reports, the shootings happened outside a restaurant in the 10th arrondissement, not far from the offices on magazine publisher Charlie Hebdo.
Witnesses have described seeing bodies lying in the street.
According to those same reports, the gunmen have not been caught.
Elsewhere in the capital, several explosions took place near the Stade de France, where the national football team was playing Germany.
President Francois Hollande was inside the stadium at the time, but has since been rushes to the Interior Ministry to deal with the unfolding situation.
An Associated Press reporter who was at the stadium has reported hearing two explosions that were loud enough to penetrate the sound of cheering fans.


http://news.sky.com/story/1587373/paris-restaurant-shootings-and-blasts-kill-26

They invited in the stinking vermin--so let them enjoy that which their sorry leftist asses asked for!!

"Let them eat(muslim) cake"----:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

You notice the damn cowards arent shooting the murdering muslim bastards haven't you??? -Tyr

[NightTrain]

....And so it begins.

I said months ago this exact thing was going to happen. It's too late now, and it's going to get very bloody from here. This is just a taste of what's to come.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

....And so it begins.

I said months ago this exact thing was going to happen. It's too late now, and it's going to get very bloody from here. This is just a taste of what's to come.

This is very likely exactly what gaffer and I talked about.. Could be now is the time and they decided to act while the cowardly muslim loving bambastard has control here. We both thought that would be the case over three years ago. And we both were right that it would start most likely in Europe.
Sad, so sad that Gaffer is not here with us now, to see how right on cue we both were.-Tyr

[Christie Brinkley]

This will inspire more attacks around europe. Sick.

[BoogyMan]

This is exactly why we need to close our borders. Political correctness running amok! It is the number 1 killer today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.html

Our idiot POTUS plans to bring hundreds of thousands of un-screened immigrants to America. It only gets MUCH worse from here.

[Black Diamond]

Our idiot POTUS plans to bring hundreds of thousands of un-screened immigrants to America. It only gets MUCH worse from here.

When it comes here, osamabama will say America has a gun problem.

[Black Diamond]

Our idiot POTUS plans to bring hundreds of thousands of un-screened immigrants to America. It only gets MUCH worse from here.

When are these wonderful people due to arrive?

[LongTermGuy]

​*French Borders are closed....France on a lock down............

[LongTermGuy]

​7 different attacks all through France.....Concert Hall muslim roaches are dead...authorities stormed the building..

[glockmail]

The religion of Peace...

[BoogyMan]

When are these wonderful people due to arrive?


http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-16/white-house-refugee-plan-overwhelmed-by-syrian-exodus

[Christie Brinkley]

Terrorists reportedly throw explosives at hostages dozens more dead

[Christie Brinkley]

Reports 100 reportedly dead at the concert hall alone... speechless.

[LongTermGuy]

*Breaking...(just heard) muslim refugee camps in France being burned....just like in Sweden

[Christie Brinkley]

*Breaking...(just heard) muslim refugee camps in France being burned....just like in Sweden
Celebration?

[PixieStix]

Obama and his ilk can't be out of office soon enough. Trump for President!

[Christie Brinkley]

118 hostages killed

Hundreds injured


158 deaths in total

[LongTermGuy]

Celebration?


Really??...Why?....None of this is good....The civilized world needs to do what it must do to stop the infestation...

[LongTermGuy]

Obama and his ilk can't be out of office soon enough. Trump for President!


This is what happens when muslims go unchecked.....Liberalism is the fuel for islam


Donald Trump 2016! Real Cure for Muslim Roaches and Ignorant Liberal tolerance

[Christie Brinkley]

Really??...Why?....None of this is good....The civilized world needs to do what it must do to stop the infestation...
I am sure there will be many celebrating as we speak.

[aboutime]

Pretend there is no threat??? http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

[LongTermGuy]

I am sure there will be many celebrating as we speak.


Let "them" celebrate....Muslims always do .....*no one really knows what some people will actually do when a Plague effects `THEIR` community....

[WiccanLiberal]

Can we all take a minute to silence all our thoughts about who and what is responsible for this horror. I am lighting a candle and seeking peace for the people of Paris. Innocent people caught up in a nightmare. No matter what you believe is the cause of this madness, nobody deserves this simply by going to a concert, or a stadium or a restaurant. I have lovely memories of Paris. May her citizens find peace and safety. Justice will and must come later.

[PixieStix]

This is what happens when muslims go unchecked.....Liberalism is the fuel for islam


Donald Trump 2016! Real Cure for Muslim Roaches and Ignorant Liberal tolerance

I have become intolerant of all the politically correct jargon, it is causing the murder of millions the word over.

Ignorant liberal tolerance is borne of liberal fear, bunch of cowards get millions murdered. They are the reason that the islamic attacks have increased and has become more and more blatant.

We need to stop the liberal ideals from coming to fruition. They are destroying not only our country, but the world.

[LongTermGuy]

Can we all take a minute to silence all our thoughts about who and what is responsible for this horror. I am lighting a candle and seeking peace for the people of Paris. Innocent people caught up in a nightmare. No matter what you believe is the cause of this madness, nobody deserves this simply by going to a concert, or a stadium or a restaurant. I have lovely memories of Paris. May her citizens find peace and safety. Justice will and must come later.

*Christy and I are reporting the news....yes indeed a VERY sad situation....which the people of Paris brought unto themselves...I remember Paris also...Many years ago...when it was Paris...


*Civilized...informed people already KNOW the "Cause"....no "believing" anything about it...

*RIP in peace people of Paris who were murdered.....

[namvet]

don't own a gun?? get one

http://i68.tinypic.com/dyrb0p.jpg

[PixieStix]

*Christy and I are reporting the news....yes indeed a VERY sad situation....which the people of Paris brought unto themselves...I remember Paris also...Many years ago...when it was Paris...


*Civilized...informed people already KNOW the "Cause"....no "believing" anything about it...

*RIP in peace people of Paris who were murdered.....

My condolences to those who lost loved ones. My condolences to those who watched as their country cowtows to political pressure to be tolerant, and accepting enough to allow this carnage.


"Europe's gamble that Islam is neither different
nor dangerous just hit a few bumps in the road.
France is one of 18 countries that experienced
Islamic terror in just the past week." ~thereligionofpeace~

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[aboutime]

Can we all take a minute to silence all our thoughts about who and what is responsible for this horror. I am lighting a candle and seeking peace for the people of Paris. Innocent people caught up in a nightmare. No matter what you believe is the cause of this madness, nobody deserves this simply by going to a concert, or a stadium or a restaurant. I have lovely memories of Paris. May her citizens find peace and safety. Justice will and must come later.


Of course WiccanLiberal. I suspect all of us feel as you do. We are seeing this take place around the world almost every day.

But, as we mourn for those who have been killed. We must also recognize, and accept the reality that...Like it or not. We as Americans must also never forget. There is a growing ENEMY WITHIN!

One of those cases where forgetting History actually dooms us to Repeating it. Anyone who thinks it can't happen here, and plays the BLAME GAMES to distract attention should remember. It is not out of the question that THEY may become the next victim.

Not a joke. Not a hypothetical, or conspiracy theory. Just the FACTS.

[namvet]

Of course WiccanLiberal. I suspect all of us feel as you do. We are seeing this take place around the world almost every day.

But, as we mourn for those who have been killed. We must also recognize, and accept the reality that...Like it or not. We as Americans must also never forget. There is a growing ENEMY WITHIN!

One of those cases where forgetting History actually dooms us to Repeating it. Anyone who thinks it can't happen here, and plays the BLAME GAMES to distract attention should remember. It is not out of the question that THEY may become the next victim.

Not a joke. Not a hypothetical, or conspiracy theory. Just the FACTS.

fuck em. we have to worry about us. cause no one else will. they stepped in that bucket a shit let em clean it up

[Black Diamond]

Quite the moment for Geraldo and his daughter.

[DragonStryk72]

Our idiot POTUS plans to bring hundreds of thousands of un-screened immigrants to America. It only gets MUCH worse from here.

HAHAHA! Oh come on, seriously. Could you imagine how quickly we'd shoot the fuck out of them? I mean, there was a reason they had to resort to stealing planes and ramming them into buildings, and even that was a one off we corrected by loading more marshals with guns onto planes.

Oh yeah, show up here. It worked out so well for AQ and Saddam.

[BoogyMan]

HAHAHA! Oh come on, seriously. Could you imagine how quickly we'd shoot the fuck out of them? I mean, there was a reason they had to resort to stealing planes and ramming them into buildings, and even that was a one off we corrected by loading more marshals with guns onto planes.

Oh yeah, show up here. It worked out so well for AQ and Saddam.

Thank goodness we have the 2A, these death cult clowns are coming to our shores.

[namvet]

Thank goodness we have the 2A, these death cult clowns are coming to our shores.

they're already here

[Gunny]

Can we all take a minute to silence all our thoughts about who and what is responsible for this horror. I am lighting a candle and seeking peace for the people of Paris. Innocent people caught up in a nightmare. No matter what you believe is the cause of this madness, nobody deserves this simply by going to a concert, or a stadium or a restaurant. I have lovely memories of Paris. May her citizens find peace and safety. Justice will and must come later.

I repsect your wish.

Then I want to kill them all.

[glockmail]

Don't light candles, light fuses.

[namvet]

their a nation of cowards. fish or cut bait. and no help from us in any way shape or form

[Jeff]

I repsect your wish.

Then I want to kill them all.

Kill em first and then they will stay very quiet during the moment of silence. :thumb:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

WW3, WILL BE THE INFIDELS AGAINST THE MUZZY HORDES..
We are now letting them gather enough territory, power and weapons to murder millions of NON-BELIEVERS ,before we wake up enough to actually fight them IMHO.
And that insanity/blindness is spiritually induced by the Dark Lord and his minions-- THE BASTARD obama being one of HIS minions IMHO. NOT JOKING.. -TYR

[namvet]

WW3, WILL BE THE INFIDELS AGAINST THE MUZZY HORDES..
We are now letting them gather enough territory, power and weapons to murder millions of NON-BELIEVERS ,before we wake up enough to actually fight them IMHO.
And that insanity/blindness is spiritually induced by the Dark Lord and his minions-- THE BASTARD obama being one of HIS minions IMHO. NOT JOKING.. -TYR

that's what we get for letting a dicktator seize power

[Gunny]

Kill em first and then they will stay very quiet during the moment of silence. :thumb:

We need to kill them all. They want to bring their 7th century mentality? We need to use a 6th century one. Everyone is so busy trying to be above it all and politically correct, no one knows how to fight anymore. We let them bring it to us. We need to take it to THEM.

[Christie Brinkley]

Syrian passport found on one of the terrorists

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151114/1030097601/paris-bomber-syria-passport.html

[Gunny]

Syrian passport found on one of the terrorists

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151114/1030097601/paris-bomber-syria-passport.html

What a surprise. :rolleyes:

But we (the ever benevolent West) are STILL going to take them in.

[Christie Brinkley]

What a surprise. :rolleyes:

But we (the ever benevolent West) are STILL going to take them in.
Merkel is already calling for tolerance for 'refugees'... the woman is a psychopath.

[indago]

His Judgment Cometh, and That Right Soon




.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Merkel is already calling for tolerance for 'refugees'... the woman is a psychopath.

She should be deposed and imprisoned for her treason IMHO.
WHEN ANY LEADER ACTS THAT WAY YOU CAN BET YOUR LAST DOLLAR THEY ARE EITHER A PURE GLOBALIST OR ELSE HAVE ALREADY KNUCKLED UNDER TO ITS MASSIVE POWER! --TYR

[Gunny]

Merkel is already calling for tolerance for 'refugees'... the woman is a psychopath.

I don't know who that is. I DO know we shouldn't be responsible for giving France back to France again. Seems we've made a habit of doing that, AND making them equal partners when they've thumbed their noses at us at every turn. Last time they won anything was the late 1700s.

Time to quit propping up terminal losers and think about ourselves.

[Christie Brinkley]

Train derails near Strasbourg, they don't know whether it is another attack

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34822666

[namvet]

huh?? France hasn't surrendered yet?? shocking

[Christie Brinkley]

huh?? France hasn't surrendered yet?? shocking
I am sure their 5 foot elf will defend them

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7936&stc=1

[namvet]

I am sure their 5 foot elf will defend them

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7936&stc=1

they are truly screwed

[Christie Brinkley]

A stateswoman who is 4 inches taller speaking about the attacks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Ap6Ld3KN8

[Black Diamond]

I am sure their 5 foot elf will defend them

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7936&stc=1

How tall was Napoleon?

[Gunny]

huh?? France hasn't surrendered yet?? shocking

Beats me. I thought they ALL carried white hankies.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30708237

14 January 2015 Last updated at 17:55

Charlie Hebdo attack: Three days of terror

At 11:30 local time (10:30 GMT) on Wednesday 7 January, a black Citroen C3 drove up to the Charlie Hebdo building in Rue Nicolas-Appert. Two masked gunmen, dressed in black and armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles got out and approached the offices.

They burst into number 6, Rue Nicolas-Appert, before realising they had the wrong address. They then moved down the street to number 10 - where the Charlie Hebdo offices are on the second floor.

Once inside, the men - now known to be brothers Cherif and Said Kouachi - asked maintenance staff in reception where the magazine's offices were, before shooting dead caretaker Frederic Boisseau.

One of the magazine's cartoonists, Corinne Rey, described how she had just returned to the building after picking up her daughter from day care when the gunmen threatened her, forcing her to enter the code for the keypad entry to the newsroom on the second floor - where a weekly editorial meeting was taking place.

The men opened fire and killed the editor's police bodyguard, Franck Brinsolaro, before asking for editor Stephane Charbonnier, known as Charb, and other four cartoonists by name and killing them, along with three other editorial staff and a guest attending the meeting.

Witnesses said they had heard the gunmen shouting "We have avenged the Prophet Muhammad" and "God is Great" in Arabic while calling out the names of the journalists.

Police, alerted to a shooting incident, arrived at the scene as the gunmen were leaving the building.


A police car blocked the gunmen's escape route down the narrow street Allee Vert and the gunmen opened fire.

Journalists and workers who had taken refuge on nearby rooftops filmed the gunmen getting out of the car and shooting at the police vehicle, before driving off.


Footage taken from a rooftop in Paris shows two gunmen firing shots
The police car's windscreen was riddled with bullets but the officers escaped unhurt.

The black Citroen is thought to have driven south down the Boulevard Richard Lenoir, before doubling back on the northern carriageway. The car stopped and video footage shows the gunmen getting out of the vehicle and shooting police officer Ahmed Merabet who is on a nearby pavement.

One of the attackers then walked up to the injured officer on the pavement and shot him dead at close range. The gunman returned to the car and drove away with his accomplice.

The getaway car was found abandoned - after apparently crashing into another vehicle about 3km (1.8 miles) north of the Charlie Hebdo offices. Investigators found Molotov cocktails and two jihadist flags in the car, French media report.


The attackers then hijacked another car, a grey Renault Clio, and disappeared.

Paris was put on maximum alert and a major security operation was launched with an additional 500 police deployed to the streets of the capital.


At about 08:45 local time the following day (Thursday 8 January), as police continued their search for the Charlie Hebdo attack suspects, a lone gunman shot two people in the southern Paris suburb of Montrouge.

The gunman, armed with a machine-gun and a pistol, shot dead a policewoman and injured a man before fleeing. The French authorities initially dismissed any suggestion of a link between the shooting and the Charlie Hebdo killings, but later confirmed the two were connected.


A major breakthrough in the hunt for the Charlie Hebdo suspects came at about at 10:30 local time the day after the attacks, when the fugitives robbed a service station near Villers-Cotterets, in the Aisne region, north-east of Paris.

The men - said by the station manager to have been armed with Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenade launchers - fired shots as they stole food and petrol from the roadside stop. They drove off towards Paris in the same Renault Clio car hijacked after the attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices.

The brothers then apparently led police on a chase around north-eastern France, with the anti-terror operation moving to nearby Crepy-en-Valois and the villages of Corcy and Longpont.

In a bulletin informing the public that arrest warrants had been issued for Cherif and Said Kouachi, aged 32 and 34, police said they should be considered armed and dangerous.

French media say Cherif was a convicted Islamist who was jailed in 2008 and had long been known to police for militant activities.

On Friday morning, after commandeering another vehicle in the town of Montagny Sainte Felicite,

When France basically did nothing about this- they invited in more of it.
Islam only yields to overpowering brute force.
Either start killing them ALL or ELSE YOU DIE, thats the way they play the DAMN game!
FRANCE DID NOT START DEPORTING all of them and it will fall, JUST A MATTER OF TIME IMHO..
BRITAIN NOT FAR BEHIND--EITHER START KILLING AND DEPORTING OR ELSE YOU TOO SHALL FALL.

These things no longer have even an ounce of humanity in them!

Wake the hell up people- They ALL believe this way!!!!!!!! --TYR

[Noir]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.

And that brutal truth you find so distasteful is a reality that you libs deny even as you witness it!
Many of us predicted this for France when they did not take correct, extremely punitive action against the stinking muzzies scum after the Charlie Hebdo INCIDENT.
Or did you forget???
The muzzies are pure evil and exploit every weakness to the max!
France showed its stupidity and begged for more when it did not start deporting every lousy muslim after that attack IMHO. --Tyr

[LongTermGuy]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.



`Muslims reap what they sow....even the so called "peaceful ones".....there is only one rule book for the Cult of islam....*One day...every stinking "koran reading" muslim will be kept out of the civilized world and made to stay and SHIT in their own house.....

[namvet]

looks like we got our first installment of terrorist here. some 10.000 are in or coming in. complete with PE belts and AK-47's. Bozo claims 80,000 on the way. scary Kerry claims 100,000. best we get rid of the bacon. and no Christmas just discounts on prayer rugs.

[Drummond]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.

Ah, Noir, you've turned up. I was wondering when you'd come along to Leftily disapprove of everything on this thread.

I've every sympathy for the victims of these latest atrocities. Of course I have. That said, I've rather less sympathy for a nation as a whole which has placed itself into a position of terrorist vulnerability through its insistence on liberal attitudes towards multiculturalism, immigration, even to the point where they've been staunch defenders of the EU foundling policy of open borders clear across the EU !!

'Funny', isn't it, that now they're suddenly persuaded that a border lockdown might be a good idea (!!) .. but only AFTER well over a hundred dead had to convince them of the need for border controls !!!!

France has embraced multiculturalism, and in doing so, has made it enormously easy for terrorists to settle there, to become part of the fabric of their very existence. The incidence of Muslims in France is roughly double that of the UK ... they, I believe, comprise 10% of the entire population ! And they wonder how it is that they keep suffering terrorist attacks !!

But it's the liberal sickness, one that even our CONSERVATIVES buy into, to keep on asserting that Islam is a religion of peace. If/when things settle down, again, politicians in France, as well as here in Britain, will again insist that Muslims are peaceful people !

Listening to LBC (London Broadcasting) this morning, I heard Andrew Pierce (one of their more Conservative commentators) insist, at the end of his programme, that the 'vile' France atrocities were, I quote, 'NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM'. Even the person with him in the studio at the time had to correct him .. by saying it represented an extremist fringe of Islam !!

Fact is that NO amount of carnage, NO limit to any deaths, will get commentators and politicians here 'off message' and have them admit that Islam itself IS murderous, its practitioners simply fulfilling the evil Islam promotes. Those people, as always happens, will work as hard as possible to protect Muslims from culpability.

I'm sure that Obama will do exactly the same. What Leftie appeaser/traitor wouldn't ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

looks like we got our first installment of terrorist here. some 10.000 are in or coming in. complete with PE belts and AK-47's. Bozo claims 80,000 on the way. scary Kerry claims 100,000. best we get rid of the bacon. and no Christmas just discounts on prayer rugs.

All all true American patriots that oppose this real treason by that ffing worm and his cohorts will be deemed to be traitors by the media, government and the sheeple that blindly believe its lying propaganda. :mad::mad:-Tyr

[Gunny]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.

Why? You so called "tolerant" people are letting a scourge invade the world. Get a clue.

[Christie Brinkley]

Palestinian terrorists confronted people at the theater in 2008



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WBDanqAVLw

[Gunny]

I say we take it to them. and I mean WE. Seems like the US and UK are always wiping the rest of the world's butts. But THIS kind of crap isn't war. It's chickenshit is what it is. This is "honor"? Murdering noncombatants? Not sure where they got THAT crap from.

[Gunny]

And the f-ing media is as guilty as the ragheads. They've given them and their cowardly crap attention non-stop for a day and half and are still running with it. Gee, give attention whores some attention. WHO'S winning THAT game?

[namvet]

http://2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/syrian-640x427.jpg

US bound

[Gunny]

http://2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/syrian-640x427.jpg

US bound

Starting to change my mind about frigates. 5" guns, right? Used to be 3s but I think they upped them a couple of notches.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I say we take it to them. and I mean WE. Seems like the US and UK are always wiping the rest of the world's butts. But THIS kind of crap isn't war. It's chickenshit is what it is. This is "honor"? Murdering noncombatants? Not sure where they got THAT crap from.




Not sure where they got THAT crap from.

Question:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God; however this works both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.


The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

Other verses calling Muslims to Jihad can be found here at AnsweringIslam.org


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.


Additional Notes:
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. The example of Muhammad is that Islam is a religion of peace when Muslims do not have the power and numbers on their side. Once they do, things change.

Many Muslims are peaceful and do not want to believe what the Quran really says. They prefer a more narrow interpretation that is closer to the Judeo-Christian ethic. Some just ignore harsher passages. Others reach for "textual context" across different suras to subjectively mitigate these verses with others so that the message fits their personal moral preferences. Although the Quran itself claims to be clear and complete, these apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret verses without their "assistance."

The violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

Violence is so ingrained in Islam that it has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered.

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death.

The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves and resisted Islamic hegemony. Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to "attack in self-defense", this oxymoron is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad.

Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage").

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Dr. Salah al-Sawy, the chief member of the Assembly of Muslim Jurists in America, stated in 2009 that "the Islamic community does not possess the strength to engage in offensive jihad at this time," tacitly affirming the legitimacy of violence for the cause of Islamic rule - bound only by the capacity for success. (source)

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought afterwards to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then the violence turned within. Early Meccan converts battled later ones as hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of personal opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to find that this is contradicted by the Quran and the bloody history of Islam's genesis.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source). In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.

[Gunny]

Question:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God; however this works both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.


The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

Other verses calling Muslims to Jihad can be found here at AnsweringIslam.org


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.


Additional Notes:
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. The example of Muhammad is that Islam is a religion of peace when Muslims do not have the power and numbers on their side. Once they do, things change.

Many Muslims are peaceful and do not want to believe what the Quran really says. They prefer a more narrow interpretation that is closer to the Judeo-Christian ethic. Some just ignore harsher passages. Others reach for "textual context" across different suras to subjectively mitigate these verses with others so that the message fits their personal moral preferences. Although the Quran itself claims to be clear and complete, these apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret verses without their "assistance."

The violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

Violence is so ingrained in Islam that it has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered.

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death.

The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves and resisted Islamic hegemony. Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to "attack in self-defense", this oxymoron is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad.

Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage").

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Dr. Salah al-Sawy, the chief member of the Assembly of Muslim Jurists in America, stated in 2009 that "the Islamic community does not possess the strength to engage in offensive jihad at this time," tacitly affirming the legitimacy of violence for the cause of Islamic rule - bound only by the capacity for success. (source)

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought afterwards to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then the violence turned within. Early Meccan converts battled later ones as hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of personal opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to find that this is contradicted by the Quran and the bloody history of Islam's genesis.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source). In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.

Did you also miss the part where my glasses are broken and I'm wearing dinosaur ones? You think I'm reading all THAT BS? I really don't care what they believe nor who they are. To me, they're a virus that has spent centuries trying to spread. I'm cause and effect. Was it my choice, I'd take most of the men on this board and go kick some damned ass. And bringing about 10 cans of Folgers for me n Jim. :laugh: We couldn't do any worse than O-blah-blah and rednecks can shoot. Got a few squids to drive the boat and a Command Sergeant Major to tell us what all we did wrong. What else do we need?

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7937&stc=1

[namvet]

Starting to change my mind about frigates. 5" guns, right? Used to be 3s but I think they upped them a couple of notches.

naw i think 50 cal with Armour piercing rounds will do

[namvet]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7937&stc=1

I think Churchill ordered that fleet destroyed.

[namvet]

Arrests are now being made in Brussels related to Paris terror attacks. the disease spreads. no surprise here

[namvet]

They’re heeeeeere! First load of 10,000 Syrian refugees has arrived in New Orleans, being resettled into 180 unsuspecting US communities
Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/first-syrian-refugees-arrive-in-new-orleans/

[Black Diamond]

They’re heeeeeere! First load of 10,000 Syrian refugees has arrived in New Orleans, being resettled into 180 unsuspecting US communities
Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/first-syrian-refugees-arrive-in-new-orleans/

Yikes

[namvet]

Yikes

no women or children. speaks volumes

[Drummond]

Did you also miss the part where my glasses are broken and I'm wearing dinosaur ones? You think I'm reading all THAT BS? I really don't care what they believe nor who they are. To me, they're a virus that has spent centuries trying to spread. I'm cause and effect. Was it my choice, I'd take most of the men on this board and go kick some damned ass. And bringing about 10 cans of Folgers for me n Jim. :laugh: We couldn't do any worse than O-blah-blah and rednecks can shoot. Got a few squids to drive the boat and a Command Sergeant Major to tell us what all we did wrong. What else do we need?

I don't agree it's BS. OK, so there's a lot to read .. but unless it's made crystal clear how solid the case is, how inarguable, then the apologists will come along and muddy the waters with countering propaganda ... just as they regularly do, over here.

A phone-in show earlier today on LBC had a Turkish woman phone in ... someone who'd been in the UK for over 30 years. She explained that the Muslim 'take' on the geopolitical order was that, (a) the Muslims are committed to creating Caliphates where the rule of Islam was absolute, and (b) a Muslim will only say they're two kinds of people, namely, Muslims, and unbelievers. It doesn't matter to them what other religion you identify with, or even if you're an atheist. If you don't believe in Islam, everyone who doesn't is considered equally as an enemy of Islam.

The radio presenter involved argued strongly against such a black and white view, but the caller wouldn't budge. Eventually the presenter lost patience and just cut her off.

Our media, our politicians, are firmly enslaved to a 'tolerant' worldview on Islam, and if people try to go against it, they're ridiculed or silenced. So .. the greater the weight of proof of the TRUTH, the better ! It isn't enough to take an 'us v them' view ... because someone else will come along and corrupt it, UNLESS .. they CAN'T.

[namvet]

Did you also miss the part where my glasses are broken and I'm wearing dinosaur ones? You think I'm reading all THAT BS? I really don't care what they believe nor who they are. To me, they're a virus that has spent centuries trying to spread. I'm cause and effect. Was it my choice, I'd take most of the men on this board and go kick some damned ass. And bringing about 10 cans of Folgers for me n Jim. :laugh: We couldn't do any worse than O-blah-blah and rednecks can shoot. Got a few squids to drive the boat and a Command Sergeant Major to tell us what all we did wrong. What else do we need?

if you mean reading glass's go to any store and buy magnifiers. that's what i use and their dirt cheap. just sayin'

[Christie Brinkley]

They’re heeeeeere! First load of 10,000 Syrian refugees has arrived in New Orleans, being resettled into 180 unsuspecting US communities
Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/first-syrian-refugees-arrive-in-new-orleans/
Absolutely disgusting. Those cowards should go back home to fight (if they are even Syrian)

[Black Diamond]

no women or children. speaks volumes

How so?

[aboutime]

The really sad thing is. A large percentage of Americans who pay no attention to what is taking place. Probably have no idea that the Enemies of Freedom ARE ALREADY HERE, and because so many Americans are complacent and uncaring. The enemies we call terrorists- Home Grown, will be free to do the same as they did in Paris.

Mark my words. And remember how Obama and the Dems will once again blame BUSH, and others.

[Voted4Reagan]

I think Churchill ordered that fleet destroyed.

Actually... there is a famous picture of the Richelieu in NYC for a refit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-rvjCy9fek

[namvet]

The really sad thing is. A large percentage of Americans who pay no attention to what is taking place. Probably have no idea that the Enemies of Freedom ARE ALREADY HERE, and because so many Americans are complacent and uncaring. The enemies we call terrorists- Home Grown, will be free to do the same as they did in Paris.

Mark my words. And remember how Obama and the Dems will once again blame BUSH, and others.

damned straight. and more killers on the way.

[namvet]

Actually... there is a famous picture of the Richelieu in NYC for a refit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-rvjCy9fek

she fled the port of Brest to escape capture then changed sides

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Richelieu

[Gunny]

I don't agree it's BS. OK, so there's a lot to read .. but unless it's made crystal clear how solid the case is, how inarguable, then the apologists will come along and muddy the waters with countering propaganda ... just as they regularly do, over here.

A phone-in show earlier today on LBC had a Turkish woman phone in ... someone who'd been in the UK for over 30 years. She explained that the Muslim 'take' on the geopolitical order was that, (a) the Muslims are committed to creating Caliphates where the rule of Islam was absolute, and (b) a Muslim will only say they're two kinds of people, namely, Muslims, and unbelievers. It doesn't matter to them what other religion you identify with, or even if you're an atheist. If you don't believe in Islam, everyone who doesn't is considered equally as an enemy of Islam.

The radio presenter involved argued strongly against such a black and white view, but the caller wouldn't budge. Eventually the presenter lost patience and just cut her off.

Our media, our politicians, are firmly enslaved to a 'tolerant' worldview on Islam, and if people try to go against it, they're ridiculed or silenced. So .. the greater the weight of proof of the TRUTH, the better ! It isn't enough to take an 'us v them' view ... because someone else will come along and corrupt it, UNLESS .. they CAN'T.

I understand what they are trying to do. But I look at their actions, not their words. I wasn't insulting you. I can't see close up and have the concentration span of gnat when it comes to reading crap. Add broken glasses? I ain't reading a whole page of NOTHING.

But I do the same about Obamalama and Billary. They come on my tv, I hit the remote. I don't care what they have to say anymore. When everything you say and do is just flat-ass wrong, I don't need the rerun.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Did you also miss the part where my glasses are broken and I'm wearing dinosaur ones? You think I'm reading all THAT BS? I really don't care what they believe nor who they are. To me, they're a virus that has spent centuries trying to spread. I'm cause and effect. Was it my choice, I'd take most of the men on this board and go kick some damned ass. And bringing about 10 cans of Folgers for me n Jim. :laugh: We couldn't do any worse than O-blah-blah and rednecks can shoot. Got a few squids to drive the boat and a Command Sergeant Major to tell us what all we did wrong. What else do we need?


What else do we need?

ANSWER ---- ABOUT 200 MILLION ROUNDS OF AMMO.. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:--TYR

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

if you mean reading glass's go to any store and buy magnifiers. That's what i use and their dirt cheap. Just sayin'

ready glasses work just fine for reading.
My oldest brother and two of my sisters use them and have for over a decade now. -tyr

[Elessar]

http://i2.wp.com/www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/kmm.jpgNice one:


http://i2.wp.com/www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/kmm.jpg

[Jeff]

Insults towards Muslims I expected. Insults towards the French I did not. Very tasteful.

I agree Noir, I think all countries ought to send you scrawny little liberals into France to help the poor folks, after all y'all have been screaming how good these muslims are. But then again I would guess France would say that was a insult, after all they are use to real men coming to their rescue, not the little liberals worms.

[Noir]

y'all have been screaming how good these muslims are.

You're welcome to quote any text in which i have said 'muslims are good people'. A muslim who is a good person is so in spite of their religion.

[indago]

"They did not give anybody a chance"


article (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-a-display-of-absolute-barbarity.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0)


A chance to what? Run and hide? Shoot back? Escape out the door? This wasn't a game of chance they were playing.

[Gunny]

I agree Noir, I think all countries ought to send you scrawny little liberals into France to help the poor folks, after all y'all have been screaming how good these muslims are. But then again I would guess France would say that was a insult, after all they are use to real men coming to their rescue, not the little liberals worms.

Heard the latest? France wants NATO to retaliate. The Syrians won't fight for Syria which BTW has its roots as a French colony, and France won't fight for France. As usual. You don't deserve a damned country if you aren't willing to fight for it and I damned sure don't want your wimpy, running away ass in MINE.

[namvet]

taxpayers note. the 10,000 killers in New Orleans will cost 130 mil per year. PE belts, AK47's and prayer rug may be optional or included.

[Gunny]

taxpayers note. the 10,000 killers in New Orleans will cost 130 mil per year. PE belts, AK47's and prayer rug may be optional or included.

Guess I need a few more bullets and knives, huh?

[namvet]

Guess I need a few more bullets and knives, huh?

fuckers are gonna spread out like a virus

[namvet]

http://www.303rdbg.com/cem-normandy4.jpg

bring them ALL home now

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

taxpayers note. the 10,000 killers in New Orleans will cost 130 mil per year. PE belts, AK47's and prayer rug may be optional or included.
How many will stay in New Orleans to sabotage that port when ordered?????
Obama is spreading the cancer and setting up for future terrorist attacks strategically placed.
When will Americans wake up to the fact that he is a "muslim in hiding" and a damn traitor to this nation --not just a dem bastard in office?? :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:---Tyr

[Gunny]

fuckers are gonna spread out like a virus

They've been a virus since the 7th century. And oddly enough, one of the first people to put them in check was Charles Martel, a Frenchman. Wonder where exactly they left their balls? They're like the Chicago Cubs of Europe.

[namvet]

here's where they are headed

virus (http://www.wrapsnet.org/Portals/1/Affiliate%20Directory%20Posting/FY%202014%20Affiliate%20Directory/21Nov14_Public%20Affiliate%20directory.pdf)

[Gunny]

here's where they are headed

virus (http://www.wrapsnet.org/Portals/1/Affiliate%20Directory%20Posting/FY%202014%20Affiliate%20Directory/21Nov14_Public%20Affiliate%20directory.pdf)

Sorry, but I'm not clicking on ANYTHING that says virus. No offense, but .....:laugh:

[namvet]

Sorry, but I'm not clicking on ANYTHING that says virus. No offense, but .....:laugh:

actually its terrorist virus

[Gunny]

actually its terrorist virus

C'mon, you know I know what they are. Was just :poke: at you. I'm a vet, remember? I'll make fun of any damned thing.

And if anyone heard O-blah-blah saying absolutely nothing for an hour on the news, raise your hand. Our biggest threat of terrorism in THIS country are the people that put his dumb do nothing ass in office.

[namvet]

C'mon, you know I know what they are. Was just :poke: at you. I'm a vet, remember? I'll make fun of any damned thing.

And if anyone heard O-blah-blah saying absolutely nothing for an hour on the news, raise your hand. Our biggest threat of terrorism in THIS country are the people that put his dumb do nothing ass in office.


http://andrewredharrisfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Oriskany-1024x604.jpeg

im sending you on a cruise

[Gunny]

http://andrewredharrisfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Oriskany-1024x604.jpeg

im sending you on a cruise

Yeah, thanks. I got enough damned sea time. I'm damned sure not fond of where the fantail on that ship is located. :laugh:

[namvet]

Yeah, thanks. I got enough damned sea time. I'm damned sure not fond of where the fantail on that ship is located. :laugh:

I heard Marines are scared shitless of drowning :laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

Yeah, thanks. I got enough damned sea time. I'm damned sure not fond of where the fantail on that ship is located. :laugh:

EX-USS Oriskany CV-34 (Essex Class) - now known as The Great Carrier Reef.

[Russ]

They’re heeeeeere! First load of 10,000 Syrian refugees has arrived in New Orleans, being resettled into 180 unsuspecting US communities
Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/first-syrian-refugees-arrive-in-new-orleans/

The attacks on Paris should mark a turning point in two arenas: 1) Western countries' attitudes toward accepting Syrian refugees, and 2) the American Presidential Election.

All Western countries should have already been leery of accepting Syrian refugees. If they were true refugees, it would be a mix of men, women, children, and old people. In fact there should have been fewer fighting-age men than the other groups, because some of the men should have stayed to fight, or been killed in the original fighting. Instead, we see a sea of fighting-age men and almost no other types of people, swarming into Greece, Turkey, and Western Europe. These are not true refugees! They are mostly scam artists, illegal immigrants, and definitely contain a certain percentage of terrorists. How many attacks on our countries, and innocent deaths, makes it worth it to accept thousands of dangerous men amongst our civilians? It may sound terrible, but all fighting-age men in the "refugees" should be taken back to Syria and dropped off on the beach.

The American Presidential Election should now focus strongly on terrorism and security. Obama's lack of a strategy with the Middle East should be front and center, and Hillary should have to defend her part of the Obama administration. And God forbid if there is an attack on American soil, especially if one of the Syrian "refugees" is part of it, but if that happens I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the strongest Commander in Chief. Probably Rubio, Cruz, Trump, Carson, maybe Fiorina. I think Hillary would be out.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The attacks on Paris should mark a turning point in two arenas: 1) Western countries' attitudes toward accepting Syrian refugees, and 2) the American Presidential Election.

All Western countries should have already been leery of accepting Syrian refugees. If they were true refugees, it would be a mix of men, women, children, and old people. In fact there should have been fewer fighting-age men than they other groups, because some of the men should have stayed to fight, or been killed in the original fighting. Instead, we see a see of fighting-age men and almost no other types of people, swarming into Greece, Turkey, and Western Europe. These are not true refugees! They are mostly scam artists, illegal immigrants, and definitely contain a certain percentage of terrorists. How many attacks on our countries, and innocent deaths, makes it worth it to accept thousands of dangerous men amongst our civilians? It may sound terrible, but all fighting-age men in the "refugees" should be taken back to Syria and dropped off on the beach.

The American Presidential Election should now focus strongly on terrorism and security. Obama's lack of a strategy with the Middle East should be front and center, and Hillary should have to defend her part of the Obama administration. And God forbid if there is an attack on American soil, especially if one of the Syrian "refugees" is part of it, but if that happens I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the strongest Commander in Chief. Probably Rubio, Cruz, Trump, Carson, maybe Fiorina. I think Hillary would be out.

Excellent post.....:beer: :beer:
It may take a bad attack on our shores to wake people up and overcome the blindness they are wrapped in regarding the obama and who he truly bats for my friend!
Here is a hint for those too damn slow to catch on--"Its not for us"!!!!
I'll bet my life on that against a damn nickel and have no fear of losing. --Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Among the carnage of the Paris attacks, reports of true heroism have emerged.

The French sports daily L'Equipe reports that two or three suicide bombers tried to enter the stadium where France was playing Germany. One was turned away on the stadium ground by a security guard because he did not have a ticket. Another was discovered at a ticket gate when security found he was wearing a vest. This is why the bombs blew up outside the stadium.

Gunmen entered the Bataclan theater only after shooting security guards who attempted to stop them.
A stage manager inside the theater saved several lives by opening a hidden hatch in the floor. Another theater employee stationed in the balcony guided patrons out windows despite coming under fire.

[Black Diamond]

The attacks on Paris should mark a turning point in two arenas: 1) Western countries' attitudes toward accepting Syrian refugees, and 2) the American Presidential Election.

All Western countries should have already been leery of accepting Syrian refugees. If they were true refugees, it would be a mix of men, women, children, and old people. In fact there should have been fewer fighting-age men than the other groups, because some of the men should have stayed to fight, or been killed in the original fighting. Instead, we see a sea of fighting-age men and almost no other types of people, swarming into Greece, Turkey, and Western Europe. These are not true refugees! They are mostly scam artists, illegal immigrants, and definitely contain a certain percentage of terrorists. How many attacks on our countries, and innocent deaths, makes it worth it to accept thousands of dangerous men amongst our civilians? It may sound terrible, but all fighting-age men in the "refugees" should be taken back to Syria and dropped off on the beach.

The American Presidential Election should now focus strongly on terrorism and security. Obama's lack of a strategy with the Middle East should be front and center, and Hillary should have to defend her part of the Obama administration. And God forbid if there is an attack on American soil, especially if one of the Syrian "refugees" is part of it, but if that happens I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the strongest Commander in Chief. Probably Rubio, Cruz, Trump, Carson, maybe Fiorina. I think Hillary would be out.

Carly Carly Carly

[LongTermGuy]

The attacks on Paris should mark a turning point in two arenas: 1) Western countries' attitudes toward accepting Syrian refugees, and 2) the American Presidential Election.

All Western countries should have already been leery of accepting Syrian refugees. If they were true refugees, it would be a mix of men, women, children, and old people. In fact there should have been fewer fighting-age men than the other groups, because some of the men should have stayed to fight, or been killed in the original fighting. Instead, we see a sea of fighting-age men and almost no other types of people, swarming into Greece, Turkey, and Western Europe. These are not true refugees! They are mostly scam artists, illegal immigrants, and definitely contain a certain percentage of terrorists. How many attacks on our countries, and innocent deaths, makes it worth it to accept thousands of dangerous men amongst our civilians? It may sound terrible, but all fighting-age men in the "refugees" should be taken back to Syria and dropped off on the beach.

The American Presidential Election should now focus strongly on terrorism and security. Obama's lack of a strategy with the Middle East should be front and center, and Hillary should have to defend her part of the Obama administration. And God forbid if there is an attack on American soil, especially if one of the Syrian "refugees" is part of it, but if that happens I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the strongest Commander in Chief. Probably Rubio, Cruz, Trump, Carson, maybe Fiorina. I think Hillary would be out.


*Well Done Russ....



~ " I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the "strongest" Commander in Chief. " ~


​I agree.......

[Black Diamond]

*Well Done Russ....



~ " I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the "strongest" Commander in Chief. " ~


​I agree.......

I would actually expect this to benefit Trump more than anyone

[Christie Brinkley]

*Well Done Russ....



~ " I think that the polls will swing wildly toward whoever seems like they would be the "strongest" Commander in Chief. " ~


​I agree.......
More like 'commander of terror'

[jimnyc]

More like 'commander of terror'

What are your local leaders doing to take the lead in fighting against terrorism? You talk a lot of shit, but ignore the ineptness of what you call home. Must be easy to join a US forum and always talking smack, than joining a UK forum to discuss the non-stop involve... wait a minute, that never happened... nothing but an armchair jackass tossing lame attacks from afar.

[Christie Brinkley]

What are your local leaders doing to take the lead in fighting against terrorism? You talk a lot of shit, but ignore the ineptness of what you call home. Must be easy to join a US forum and always talking smack, than joining a UK forum to discuss the non-stop involve... wait a minute, that never happened... nothing but an armchair jackass tossing lame attacks from afar.
How about wipe ISIS off the map instead of giving it arms to overthrow a government and claiming that they are moderate rebels? That goes for the criminals in the UK and US government.

[jimnyc]

How about wipe ISIS off the map instead of giving it arms to overthrow a government and claiming that they are moderate rebels? That goes for the criminals in the UK and US government.

The US has killed 2 major leaders as of late, and helped with Iraqi's taking back a few towns. You'll STILL claim its a lie or cover up of sorts. Maybe if other pussy countries got off their asses, and EVERYone helped fight the war on terror, then things would be different. Some idiots want to complain that the US gets involved abroad, and then some complain saying we don't do enough. I say to all of those fucks - get off your asses and do better then. But they aren't, are they?

[Christie Brinkley]

The US has killed 2 major leaders as of late, and helped with Iraqi's taking back a few towns. You'll STILL claim its a lie or cover up of sorts. Maybe if other pussy countries got off their asses, and EVERYone helped fight the war on terror, then things would be different. Some idiots want to complain that the US gets involved abroad, and then some complain saying we don't do enough. I say to all of those fucks - get off your asses and do better then. But they aren't, are they?

Major leaders are killed for propaganda reasons not for strategic reasons. The recent strikes which have actually targeted legitimate and active ISIS targets in Iraq (for once) is aimed to drag the conflict out as long as possibly without looking like you have not done anything.

I still can't believe your owe so great country has not defeated these terrorists... after a year...

Keep sticking up for the military industrial complex.

[jimnyc]

Major leaders are killed for propaganda reasons not for strategic reasons. The recent strikes which have actually targeted legitimate and active ISIS targets in Iraq (for once) is aimed to drag the conflict out as long as possibly without looking like you have not done anything.

I still can't believe your owe so great country has not defeated these terrorists... after a year...

Keep sticking up for the military industrial complex.

I still can't believe you sit amongst the pussies and complain from afar while doing jack shit. You want ISIS eliminated and complain about pretty much one of 2 countries that are brave enough to at least get involved. And then you'll complain if it's not enough. How about you spend more time complaining to your pussy leaders about doing more, if you're so worried?

Who else is taking out as many targets in Iraq? Certainly not your country. Why is that? Maybe they're in the pockets of ISIS?

Keep complaining about those helping, while hiding with the pussies.

[Christie Brinkley]

I still can't believe you sit amongst the pussies and complain from afar while doing jack shit. You want ISIS eliminated and complain about pretty much one of 2 countries that are brave enough to at least get involved. And then you'll complain if it's not enough. How about you spend more time complaining to your pussy leaders about doing more, if you're so worried?

Who else is taking out as many targets in Iraq? Certainly not your country. Why is that? Maybe they're in the pockets of ISIS?

Keep complaining about those helping, while hiding with the pussies.
1 year on. Strongest military in the world. ISIS as strong as ever.

[jimnyc]

Let's put it this way, the worst president in American history, a piece of crap, is STILL doing more than 99% of the countries out there, and then some still bitch it's not enough. Sad fuckers.

[jimnyc]

1 year on. Strongest military in the world. ISIS as strong as ever.

And you and your country are pussies. What's new? Regardless of the status, at least we're over there, trying, lives on the line. Is your white flag operational? :lol:

[Drummond]

1 year on. Strongest military in the world. ISIS as strong as ever.

9/11 happened, and America got a wake-up call about Islamic terrorism. GW Bush learned that lesson, followed up with strong military action, undertaken under the 'War on Terror' umbrella.

He was, of course, thoroughly justified in waging it, and in all he did in the furtherance of it. Bush was simply brilliant.

Then, Obama took over. Weakness on the world stage followed, with Obama giving away plans to institute troop withdrawals where they were in fact STILL needed. That, of course, was a gift to terrorists in the region, and was treasonous in nature.

Obama has continued with that weakness ever since.

The weakness, Christie, isn't that of America as such .. just its treasonous Leftie leadership, which is going out of its way to be as soft on Islamic terrorism as it feels it can get away with. Lefties love such weakness, and do all they can to sign us all up to it .. in what they do, what they preach.

Today, Christie, our own Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, announced the following .. which says it all .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023


Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".

He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.

Christie, if you want to comment on perceived 'weaknesses', look to the root cause of them. Reflect when you do so that there are plenty on our side of the Pond who'll ensure our own.

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7939&stc=1

[Gunny]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7939&stc=1

What ship is it? Looks almost like a WWI dreadnought.

[PixieStix]

Question:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God; however this works both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.


The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

Other verses calling Muslims to Jihad can be found here at AnsweringIslam.org


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.


Additional Notes:
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. The example of Muhammad is that Islam is a religion of peace when Muslims do not have the power and numbers on their side. Once they do, things change.

Many Muslims are peaceful and do not want to believe what the Quran really says. They prefer a more narrow interpretation that is closer to the Judeo-Christian ethic. Some just ignore harsher passages. Others reach for "textual context" across different suras to subjectively mitigate these verses with others so that the message fits their personal moral preferences. Although the Quran itself claims to be clear and complete, these apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret verses without their "assistance."

The violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

Violence is so ingrained in Islam that it has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered.

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death.

The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves and resisted Islamic hegemony. Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to "attack in self-defense", this oxymoron is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad.

Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage").

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Dr. Salah al-Sawy, the chief member of the Assembly of Muslim Jurists in America, stated in 2009 that "the Islamic community does not possess the strength to engage in offensive jihad at this time," tacitly affirming the legitimacy of violence for the cause of Islamic rule - bound only by the capacity for success. (source)

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought afterwards to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then the violence turned within. Early Meccan converts battled later ones as hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of personal opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to find that this is contradicted by the Quran and the bloody history of Islam's genesis.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source). In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.

Have to know the enemy. They all read and believe the same book and many are called to jihad, and their reward is the greatest of rewards. The guy who takes care of the family?.....his reward is not so great.

[namvet]

What ship is it? Looks almost like a WWI dreadnought.

the Richelieu. Ordered in 1935, and designed to counter the Italian Littorio-class battleships, Richelieu was the first French 35,000-ton battleship.

[Jeff]

We need to annihilate the scumbags, we have the Muslims going crazy and the Blacks going crazy all over the USA. It's time to tell the Liberals to step down, we tried all this political correct BS, step down and let real men take over. We had and I believe still have the best and the strongest military and best patriots in the world. Let our military take care of things over seas and let men clean this BS up inside our borders, enough of this BS already.

[Black Diamond]

We need to annihilate the scumbags, we have the Muslims going crazy and the Blacks going crazy all over the USA. It's time to tell the Liberals to step down, we tried all this political correct BS, step down and let real men take over. We had and I believe still have the best and the strongest military and best patriots in the world. Let our military take care of things over seas and let men clean this BS up inside our borders, enough of this BS already.
Be interesting watching Hillary try to move from far leftist to "tough on terror".

[Black Diamond]

Be interesting watching Hillary try to move from far leftist to "tough on terror".

It will change from " I have spent my whole life fighting for equality " to "i have spent my whole life fighting terrorism".

[Voted4Reagan]

the Richelieu. Ordered in 1935, and designed to counter the Italian Littorio-class battleships, Richelieu was the first French 35,000-ton battleship.

Correct... and all main guns mounted Forward in 2 Quadruple Turrets.

Similar to the HMS RODNEY and HMS NELSON

[Kathianne]

One does have to wonder when the West is going to stop blaming themselves for the attacks by Muslims that are taking their religion literally? One reformed Muslim makes this clear. https://www.facebook.com/faisalsalmutar/posts/906729506085781

[namvet]

the cockroaches have risen and breed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZwIDlIL5Q

[LongTermGuy]

Good God!...Zombie Hordes ..each one with their own "book of peace"....For instruction......

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/09/ap_ap-photo381-e1441846999990-640x478.jpg

`The newly received immigrants will assemble in enclaves, refuse any attempt to assimilate, while driving out rightful citizens from their midst. Finally, when the atmosphere is favorable set up Shari law within the very governments they live among. This is happening all over the world. And... this is all accomplished at minimal expense. `

`The immigrants apply for welfare and begin sucking the host taxpayers month after month. This is a tried and true strategy with the host countries falling over themselves to welcome, support, and finally submit to the religion of peace. Why governments continue to fall for this is beyond me.`

[namvet]

Good God!...Zombie Hordes ..each one with their own "book of peace"....For instruction......

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/09/ap_ap-photo381-e1441846999990-640x478.jpg

`The newly received immigrants will assemble in enclaves, refuse any attempt to assimilate, while driving out rightful citizens from their midst. Finally, when the atmosphere is favorable set up Shari law within the very governments they live among. This is happening all over the world. And... this is all accomplished at minimal expense. `

`The immigrants apply for welfare and begin sucking the host taxpayers month after month. This is a tried and true strategy with the host countries falling over themselves to welcome, support, and finally submit to the religion of peace. Why governments continue to fall for this is beyond me.`

which state is this ???

[Elessar]

Be interesting watching Hillary try to move from far leftist to "tough on terror".

That's not going to happen with the "I dodged sniper fire in Kosovo" liar.

[namvet]

Correct... and all main guns mounted Forward in 2 Quadruple Turrets.

Similar to the HMS RODNEY and HMS NELSON

BTY I voted for Reagan to


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5fOq9PYp8A

[Russ]

BTY I voted for Reagan to



... and right after Reagan did this, Qaddafi stopped all his terrorist acts. What a coincidence.

Compare Commander in Chief Reagan with the weakling/cowardly Obama. The difference is actually hard to take in.

[Elessar]

... and right after Reagan did this, Qaddafi stopped all his terrorist acts. What a coincidence.

Compare Commander in Chief Reagan with the weakling/cowardly Obama. The difference is actually hard to take in.

Reagan faced him down, hunted him down as well. RR bombed
the shit out of him.

I remember his weak missile attack on Lampadosa Island....a damn
LORAN Station and Comms Station. The Coasties there sat in beach
chairs watching the missiles fall way short.

[namvet]

... and right after Reagan did this, Qaddafi stopped all his terrorist acts. What a coincidence.

Compare Commander in Chief Reagan with the weakling/cowardly Obama. The difference is actually hard to take in.

we never saw or heard anything from Qaddafi duck again. how ironic. we flew F111's from England to hit that compound..we asked for permission to overfly France and they told us to stick it. burn Paris, burn

[aboutime]

we never saw or heard anything from Qaddafi duck again. how ironic. we flew F111's from England to hit that compound..we asked for permission to overfly France and they told us to stick it. burn Paris, burn


I do feel sympathy for those who died last Friday as innocents. But the reality is. FRANCE invited all of this terrorist stuff into their nation by pretending...YES PRETENDING....Muslims (radical muslims) were not a threat. Even as the FRENCH looked the other way..to avoid OFFENDING their future enemies with open arms.

So, I personally believe. As in WWII, the French bowed down to appeasement and it further explains why their military uniform PANTS are Brown, and their shirts are Red. :laugh: Not to forget how Glass Bottomed Boats are used by Tourists to view the FORMER French Navy ships across the Mediterranean sea.

Notice how Obama had our flags placed at HALF MAST, while he avoided doing the same for VETERANS???

[glockmail]

we never saw or heard anything from Qaddafi duck again. how ironic. we flew F111's from England to hit that compound..we asked for permission to overfly France and they told us to stick it. burn Paris, burn

Gosh, thanks for the memory.

[namvet]

I do feel sympathy for those who died last Friday as innocents. But the reality is. FRANCE invited all of this terrorist stuff into their nation by pretending...YES PRETENDING....Muslims (radical muslims) were not a threat. Even as the FRENCH looked the other way..to avoid OFFENDING their future enemies with open arms.

So, I personally believe. As in WWII, the French bowed down to appeasement and it further explains why their military uniform PANTS are Brown, and their shirts are Red. :laugh: Not to forget how Glass Bottomed Boats are used by Tourists to view the FORMER French Navy ships across the Mediterranean sea.

Notice how Obama had our flags placed at HALF MAST, while he avoided doing the same for VETERANS???

and now their 2 foot midget president says he will move ahead with re settlement. what a retard. just asking for more. and they will get it. in spades. no i have no sympathy here.

[Jeff]

and now their 2 foot midget president says he will move ahead with re settlement. what a retard. just asking for more. and they will get it. in spades. no i have no sympathy here.

I have to agree with ya NV, what kind of ass would invite these folks into their country in the wake of what just happened, this guy must have the same game plan as Obama.