Russia accused of state sponsored doping

[gabosaurus]

Not that this is really startling news. Russia's athletic fortunes are totally linked to drug and supplement usage. Their athletes can't compete on the international level otherwise. Same with China.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/wada-iaaf-russia-dick-pound-banned

[Christie Brinkley]

When is the American doping report coming out?:rolleyes:

[Drummond]

Not that this is really startling news. Russia's athletic fortunes are totally linked to drug and supplement usage. Their athletes can't compete on the international level otherwise. Same with China.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/wada-iaaf-russia-dick-pound-banned

The British media are awash with reporting about this. I see you've gone to the Leftie Guardian for your material. Likewise, it's a leading story on the BBC. The way they're reporting it, just as the Guardian has, is to comment that, as a consequence, the 2012 London Olympic Games had been 'sabotaged'.

Apparently, a few hours ago, a senior Russian politician said that the doping reporting was 'unfounded'. But of course, they WOULD say that, wouldn't they ...

[Christie Brinkley]

The British media are awash with reporting about this. I see you've gone to the Leftie Guardian for your material. Likewise, it's a leading story on the BBC. The way they're reporting it, just as the Guardian has, is to comment that, as a consequence, the 2012 London Olympic Games had been 'sabotaged'.

Apparently, a few hours ago, a senior Russian politician said that the doping reporting was 'unfounded'. But of course, they WOULD say that, wouldn't they ...
Drummond Was this report JUST on Russian doping or doping as a whole?

[Balu]

Doping hype caused by Russia’s dominance in athletic competitions — sports ministerSport (http://tass.ru/en/sport)
November 10, 18:49 UTC+3 MOSCOW
Doping is everywhere and Russia is no exception, Vitaly Mutko said in an interview with TASS


MOSCOW, November 10. /TASS/. Much global attention is focused on Russian sports because of its dominance in the international competitions arena — the spotlight now turned on alleged doping abuse within it, Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko told TASS on Tuesday.

"Doping is everywhere and Russia is no exception," Mutko said in an interview with TASS. "It is very hard to fight with cheating as people are different. Some athletes, seeking perfection and success, resort to dishonest methods. We are fighting against it, just like the rest of the world. Somewhere we succeed in this regard, somewhere we fail."
"But I believe that such exaggerated attention is currently on us, because we [Russia] are always competing for the top possible results," Mutko said. "That is why we are under a closer [international] focus compared with the rest."
"Moreover, the global atmosphere is currently in a criticizing mood towards us," the sports minister said. "And we [Russia] also make blunders once in a while."
The Independent Commission of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) delivered on Monday a report on its investigation into doping abuse allegations involving Russian athletes and recommended that the IAAF suspend all athletes of the All-Russia Athletics Federation (ARAF) from participation in international competitions.
It also recommended to ban for life five Russian athletes and five coaches over their involvement in doping abuse violations as well as to strip the Moscow anti-doping laboratory of its license and sack its director Grigory Rodchenkov.




Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said earlier in the day commenting on the developing situation that allegations against Russian sports over the massive use of doping performance enhancing drugs were groundless and not backed up by evidence so far.
The Russian Sports Ministry, in turn, advised WADA to focus on real facts during the investigation against Russian athletes.
Richard Pound, the head of the WADA Independent Commission told a news conference on Monday that the delivered on Monday commission’s report was only the first part and the final text of the investigation’s report would be published by the end of the year.
In December 2014 German TV Channel ARD aired a series of documentaries on alleged doping abuse in Russian sports. The ARD’s two-part documentary, entitled Geheimsache Doping (Secret Doping Case), claimed that Russian athletes systematically took banned substances on instructions from their coaches.
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced in June his deep disappointment with the rise of positive doping cases registered among Russian athletes and urged to enhance the fight against the abuse of performance enhancing drugs.
On August 1 this year ARD released another documentary "Doping — Top Secret: The Shadowy World of Athletics." The film claimed that ARD and British newspaper The Sunday Times had obtained a leaked database belonging to the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), which contained more than 12,000 blood tests from around 5,000 athletes in the years 2001 to 2012.
ARD further alleged that a third of medals (146, including 55 golds) in endurance events at the Olympics and World Championships between 2001 and 2012 were won by athletes who have recorded suspicious tests but none of these athletes have been stripped of their medals.
The Sunday Times also alleged that Russian athletes suspected of doping abuse had won 80% of medals for their country at Olympic Games and World Championships between 2001 and 2012.

[gabosaurus]

When is the American doping report coming out?:rolleyes:

Individual doping in Western countries is neither approved or sponsored by the government. Western countries do not take kids from their homes when they are between 6 and 8 year ago and place them in "sport academies," where they constantly practice and beef up their bodies.

[Drummond]

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) Was this report JUST on Russian doping or doping as a whole?

You haven't been following this yourself ? I'm surprised.

There's speculation that doping may not be confined to Russia, but the reporting is clear - Russia is THE country being reported on. No specific mention of America at all.

I understand that Russian authorities have been given until the end of the week to formally reply. If they don't, they face a worldwide competition ban.

[gabosaurus]

Doping hype caused by Russia’s dominance in athletic competitions — sports minister


http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-you-tell-a-lie-big-enough-and-keep-repeating-it-people-will-eventually-come-to-believe-joseph-goebbels-83-20-28.jpg

[Drummond]

Doping hype caused by Russia’s dominance in athletic competitions — sports minister

Sport (http://tass.ru/en/sport)
November 10, 18:49 UTC+3 MOSCOW
Doping is everywhere and Russia is no exception, Vitaly Mutko said in an interview with TASS


MOSCOW, November 10. /TASS/. Much global attention is focused on Russian sports because of its dominance in the international competitions arena — the spotlight now turned on alleged doping abuse within it, Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko told TASS on Tuesday.

"Doping is everywhere and Russia is no exception," Mutko said in an interview with TASS. "It is very hard to fight with cheating as people are different. Some athletes, seeking perfection and success, resort to dishonest methods. We are fighting against it, just like the rest of the world. Somewhere we succeed in this regard, somewhere we fail."
"But I believe that such exaggerated attention is currently on us, because we [Russia] are always competing for the top possible results," Mutko said. "That is why we are under a closer focus compared with the rest."
"Moreover, the global atmosphere is currently in a criticizing mood towards us," the sports minister said. "And we [Russia] also make blunders once in a while."
The Independent Commission of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) delivered on Monday a report on its investigation into doping abuse allegations involving Russian athletes and recommended that the IAAF suspend all athletes of the All-Russia Athletics Federation (ARAF) from participation in international competitions.
It also recommended to ban for life five Russian athletes and five coaches over their involvement in doping abuse violations as well as to strip the Moscow anti-doping laboratory of its license and sack its director Grigory Rodchenkov.


Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said earlier in the day commenting on the developing situation that allegations against Russian sports over the massive use of doping performance enhancing drugs were groundless and not backed up by evidence so far.
The Russian Sports Ministry, in turn, advised WADA to focus on real facts during the investigation against Russian athletes.
Richard Pound, the head of the WADA Independent Commission told a news conference on Monday that the delivered on Monday commission’s report was only the first part and the final text of the investigation’s report would be published by the end of the year.
In December 2014 German TV Channel ARD aired a series of documentaries on alleged doping abuse in Russian sports. The ARD’s two-part documentary, entitled Geheimsache Doping (Secret Doping Case), claimed that Russian athletes systematically took banned substances on instructions from their coaches.
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced in June his deep disappointment with the rise of positive doping cases registered among Russian athletes and urged to enhance the fight against the abuse of performance enhancing drugs.
On August 1 this year ARD released another documentary "Doping — Top Secret: The Shadowy World of Athletics." The film claimed that ARD and British newspaper The Sunday Times had obtained a leaked database belonging to the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), which contained more than 12,000 blood tests from around 5,000 athletes in the years 2001 to 2012.
ARD further alleged that a third of medals (146, including 55 golds) in endurance events at the Olympics and World Championships between 2001 and 2012 were won by athletes who have recorded suspicious tests but none of these athletes have been stripped of their medals.
The Sunday Times also alleged that Russian athletes suspected of doping abuse had won 80% of medals for their country at Olympic Games and World Championships between 2001 and 2012.

God, this is hilarious. So, Balu, it's all Western envy .. anti-Russian propaganda, eh ?

You REALLY need to think independently of the State propaganda machine !!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3311030/Russia-faces-ban-athletics-biggest-doping-scandal-history-IAAF-president-Lord-Coe-makes-embarrassing-U-turn-punishment.html


Russia should be suspended from athletics after being accused of a ‘state-supported’ doping programme that sabotaged the London Olympics.

That is the recommendation of an explosive 323-page report published yesterday by an independent commission appointed by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to investigate claims of widespread abuse of performance-enhancing drugs in Russian athletics.

[I]The gold and bronze medallists from the women’s 800 metres at London 2012 — Mariya Savinova and Ekaterina Poistogova — are among known cheats now being recommended for life bans.

The report says: ‘As a result of this widespread inaction, the Olympic Games in London were, in a sense, sabotaged by the admission of athletes who should have not been competing, and could have been prevented from competing.’

The commission, led by former anti-drugs chief Dick Pound, said there was enough time for Russia to ‘get their house in order’ before next year’s Olympics in Rio, but IAAF president Lord Coe confirmed that the governing body had begun ‘considering sanctions’. Russia have until the end of the week to respond.

[Balu]

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-you-tell-a-lie-big-enough-and-keep-repeating-it-people-will-eventually-come-to-believe-joseph-goebbels-83-20-28.jpg

So, we have been accustomed to treat your media appropriately.

https://russian.rt.com/static/2/5/4/25415abb541d60342fcdec9b2a5a74ca31181c29.jpg

[jimnyc]

Of course there is doping everywhere. But the US has ways of testing at every level. Russia has been known to be cheating at the "state sponsored" level since like forever. Same as the Chinese who enter adults in the gymnastics and such.

[jimnyc]

"Doping is everywhere and Russia is no exception," Mutko said in an interview with TASS.

I give him credit for admitting to the state sponsored doping at least. :)

[Christie Brinkley]

Individual doping in Western countries is neither approved or sponsored by the government. Western countries do not take kids from their homes when they are between 6 and 8 year ago and place them in "sport academies," where they constantly practice and beef up their bodies.
When do they "take kids"? :laugh:

[Christie Brinkley]

You haven't been following this yourself ? I'm surprised.

There's speculation that doping may not be confined to Russia, but the reporting is clear - Russia is THE country being reported on. No specific mention of America at all.

I understand that Russian authorities have been given until the end of the week to formally reply. If they don't, they face a worldwide competition ban.
I dislike sports on all levels. Looks like they are now using sports for political means.

[jimnyc]

I dislike sports on all levels. Looks like they are now using sports for political means.

Russia has been doping their athletes, and China, since I was a kid in the 70's. Maybe others use that doping for political means, dunno, but the doping is doping = cheating. They've been caught endless times, also have the Chinese.

[Black Diamond]

I remember Ben Johnson of Canada was stripped of his golf medal after he "beat" Carl Lewis.

[jimnyc]

I remember Ben Johnson of Canada was stripped of his golf medal after he "beat" Carl Lewis.

Yep, and held the world record when he won that race as well.

[Christie Brinkley]

Russia has been doping their athletes, and China, since I was a kid in the 70's. Maybe others use that doping for political means, dunno, but the doping is doping = cheating. They've been caught endless times, also have the Chinese.
Yes the Chinese even breed athletes together. Why are the Chinese not included? Is the report only about state sponsored doping?

[jimnyc]

Yes the Chinese even breed athletes together. Why are the Chinese not included? Is the report only about state sponsored doping?

Dunno. Maybe some info just broke through? I've seen EVERY country accused of the same over some time of the past 40 years. And believe it or not, the Chinese are accused the worst, with their gymnastic team. And yes, if someone shows that they are great at a very early age, don't think the Chinese government doesn't have a say in whether or not that child competes, and where, and trains...

[Christie Brinkley]

Dunno. Maybe some info just broke through? I've seen EVERY country accused of the same over some time of the past 40 years. And believe it or not, the Chinese are accused the worst, with their gymnastic team. And yes, if someone shows that they are great at a very early age, don't think the Chinese government doesn't have a say in whether or not that child competes, and where, and trains...
Is the report just on Russia or what? If this is supposedly over all state sponsored doping then where is China or any other country?

[jimnyc]

Is the report just on Russia or what? If this is supposedly over all state sponsored doping then where is China or any other country?

Ask the writer. I also recall reading a nasty article about how the children in China are abused on their way to medals. So THIS article may be about Russia, but it's not the only article.

[Balu]

The Great Lie is that the doping is State sponsored. It acts like a tuning fork that sets the tone for another campaign to form image of Russia.

[Gunny]

When is the American doping report coming out?:rolleyes:

You mean "when is the "athlete doping report coming out?"

And who do you think creates this problem? The athletes? Or drooling at the mouth armchair fans? Cause and effect.

[Drummond]

So, we have been accustomed to treat your media appropriately.

https://russian.rt.com/static/2/5/4/25415abb541d60342fcdec9b2a5a74ca31181c29.jpg

That's most unfortunate, Balu, since you could learn a lot ...

Admittedly there are odd occasions when Western reporting DOES fail. The classic example is over Iraq's WMD's ... Rick Santorum, an American senator, held a press conference in June 2006 to reveal a newly-declassified segment of an American Intelligence report, detailing that over 500 of them had been found. It was sparsely reported in the American media .. & so far as I know, not AT ALL in Europe. I'm willing to bet that, likewise, your Russian media kept quiet about them.

I'm correct, aren't I ?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/06/22/report-hundreds-wmds-found-in-iraq.html

See also ...

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

[Gunny]

That's most unfortunate, Balu, since you could learn a lot ...

Admittedly there are odd occasions when Western reporting DOES fail. The classic example is over Iraq's WMD's ... Rick Santorum, an American senator, held a press conference in June 2006 to reveal a newly-declassified segment of an American Intelligence report, detailing that over 500 of them had been found. It was sparsely reported in the American media .. & so far as I know, not AT ALL in Europe. I'm willing to bet that, likewise, your Russian media kept quiet about them.

I'm correct, aren't I ?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/06/22/report-hundreds-wmds-found-in-iraq.html

Same old story, buddy. The Russians have been doping since the 60s. Nobody called them on it. WE however, get called if we fart in the wrong direction. If we aren't more a self-destructive society than Rome and Greece, we have to be next.

Still remains, we ARE who we are and when the ship goes down, we're going with it. Or f*cking winning. And guess which end of THAT I'm on?

I just wish we'd do something about this before it turns into another World War.

[Balu]

I'm correct, aren't I ?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/06/22/report-hundreds-wmds-found-in-iraq.html

See also ...

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

To refer to Foxnews, biased media, is a sign of a bad taste in desent society. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/nea.gif

[Drummond]

The Great Lie is that the doping is State sponsored. It acts like a tuning fork that sets the tone for another campaign to form image of Russia.

See Gunny's response to my post.

That doping amongst Russian athletes is rife has been known about for several decades. Your country, along with East Germany during the Soviet days, had one hell of a reputation for it. It beggars belief that it all could've been happening, originating particularly from Soviet States, without the authorities allowing it (meaning that they purposely sponsored it, at minimum .. Soviet-style authority was never known for its laxity !!!).

It goes back, certainly, to the Olga Korbut days, and the drugs she was known to have taken to retard her body from developing any female characteristics that could get in the way of her gymnastic proficiency.

Balu, we all know about this stuff !!

[gabosaurus]

When do they "take kids"? :laugh:

You have not heard of the Russian "sports academies?" Russia portrays them as "schools." Russian athletes who have defected to the West have all stated that they were training centers for kids as young as 6.

[Balu]

See Gunny's response to my post.

That doping amongst Russian athletes is rife has been known about for several decades. Your country, along with East Germany during the Soviet days, had one hell of a reputation for it. It beggars belief that it all could've been happening, originating particularly from Soviet States, without the authorities allowing it (meaning that they purposely sponsored it, at minimum .. Soviet-style authority was never known for its laxity !!!).

It goes back, certainly, to the Olga Korbut days, and the drugs she was known to have taken to retard her body from developing any female characteristics that could get in the way of her gymnastic proficiency.

Balu, we all know about this stuff !!

The United States has a reputation as the country-slaveholders with the remnants of apartheid, who killed millions natives Indians. And so what?
Sticking to the point, there are NO proofs of the Russian State sponcoring doping.
Wе are speaking about this point, but not about if doping sometimes is used or not.

[LongTermGuy]

The United States has a reputation as the country-slaveholders with the remnants of apartheid, who killed millions natives Indians. And so what?
Sticking to the point, there are NO proofs of the Russian State sponcoring doping.
Wе are speaking about this point, but not about if doping sometimes is used or not.


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/09/sport/athletics-doping-wada-coe/index.html


Anti-Doping Commission Finds Russia Engaged in State-Sponsored Doping


http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-doping-commission-finds-russia-engaged-in-state-sponsored-doping-1447082047


Sport at a crossroads after damning evidence of doping culture in Russia


`We now know that the head of that lauded Moscow lab, Grigory Rodchenko, admitted to intentionally destroying 1,417 samples in December last year shortly before Wada officials visited.`

`In Moscow Rodchenko “not only accepted but also requested money in order to execute the concealment of positive test results`

​http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/sport-crossroads-russia-doping-culture-athletics

[Balu]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/09/sport/athletics-doping-wada-coe/index.html


Anti-Doping Commission Finds Russia Engaged in State-Sponsored Doping


http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-doping-commission-finds-russia-engaged-in-state-sponsored-doping-1447082047


Sport at a crossroads after damning evidence of doping culture in Russia


`We now know that the head of that lauded Moscow lab, Grigory Rodchenko, admitted to intentionally destroying 1,417 samples in December last year shortly before Wada officials visited.`

`In Moscow Rodchenko “not only accepted but also requested money in order to execute the concealment of positive test results`

​http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/sport-crossroads-russia-doping-culture-athletics

You are ready to provide the proofs of all these groundless accusations?

[Jeff]

Not that this is really startling news. Russia's athletic fortunes are totally linked to drug and supplement usage. Their athletes can't compete on the international level otherwise. Same with China.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/wada-iaaf-russia-dick-pound-banned

Hell Gabs this is old News, Didn't ya watch Rocky, they showed us about Russia 20 years ago.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DbYe1BPjPgU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Voted4Reagan]

Hell Gabs this is old News, Didn't ya watch Rocky, they showed us about Russia 20 years ago.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DbYe1BPjPgU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Rocky IV came out in 1985.... 30 years ago....

[Jeff]

Rocky IV came out in 1985.... 30 years ago....

20, 30 hell, it was a long time ago. :laugh:

[Gunny]

See Gunny's response to my post.

That doping amongst Russian athletes is rife has been known about for several decades. Your country, along with East Germany during the Soviet days, had one hell of a reputation for it. It beggars belief that it all could've been happening, originating particularly from Soviet States, without the authorities allowing it (meaning that they purposely sponsored it, at minimum .. Soviet-style authority was never known for its laxity !!!).

It goes back, certainly, to the Olga Korbut days, and the drugs she was known to have taken to retard her body from developing any female characteristics that could get in the way of her gymnastic proficiency.

Balu, we all know about this stuff !!

The problem is, steroids have a value. Athletes have ruined it. Steroids were actually invented in Nazi Germany as a way to heal burn victims. Guess they wanted to get them back on the line quicker.

But we LOVE the blame game here. Former athletes want to blame steroids for THEIR actions. Lyle Alzado and Superstar Billy Graham were the first and worst and America found a new bad guy. The people that suffer are the ones that need them and can't get them for nothing more than ignorance and media hype.

And no, I never took any. But I've known plenty of people that did.

[Drummond]

The United States has a reputation as the country-slaveholders with the remnants of apartheid, who killed millions natives Indians. And so what?
Sticking to the point, there are NO proofs of the Russian State sponcoring doping.
Wе are speaking about this point, but not about if doping sometimes is used or not.

Ahem. What does slavery have to do with rampant cheating at sports ?? Ditto 'remnants of apartheid' .. ?

I understand that it won't be long before the report all this is based upon goes public, and then, we'll see the extent and depth of culpability for sure. In the meantime, Seb Coe was so moved by what he's already seen of the report that he did an about-face and started pressuring for sanctions-action against Russia on the strength of it.

Oh, by the way .. let me remind you again that I'm not an American. Your digs at America ... rather desperate and even obscure ones, obviously, not least because you have to go so far back into history and consider long-dead generations for your examples (!:rolleyes:) ... can't be expected to have any chance of the same relevance for me as most of the other contributors here. I'm not of the country you're posting to, nor the same society, and my country's history likewise differs.

[Balu]

Ahem. What does slavery have to do with rampant cheating at sports ?? Ditto 'remnants of apartheid' .. ?
The same as the references to gone USSR an GDR, while speaking about Russia.

[jimnyc]

My Mom once accused me of doping, and she came into my room and busted me, and said I knew you were smoking that dope!! :laugh::420::420:

[Voted4Reagan]

The same as the references to gone USSR an GDR, while speaking about Russia.

East Germany was the biggest cheater in Olympic History.... Sponsored and encouraged by the Russians.

I refuse to call East Germany the GDR... There was NOTHING Democratic in the "German Democratic Republic". It was a Soviet puppet that bent over for Moscow every time they were told to...

That and they tried to murder every citizen that tried to escape up until 1988.

[Drummond]

The same as the references to gone USSR an GDR, while speaking about Russia.

Why ? Putin's ex-KGB. His annexation of the Crimea, fairly recently in historical terms, reminds one of a fledgling USSR, beginning to subsume Nation States under its control (.. and Hitler's annexations, too, come to mind).

You yourself are as dismissive of criticism of Russia's faults as preprogrammed Communists would've been, at the USSR's heyday, dismissed as 'Western propaganda'. If Russia had changed for the better, it'd be more honest about its conduct. Instead ... 'propaganda rules'. As before.

[Gunny]

The United States has a reputation as the country-slaveholders with the remnants of apartheid, who killed millions natives Indians. And so what?
Sticking to the point, there are NO proofs of the Russian State sponcoring doping.
Wе are speaking about this point, but not about if doping sometimes is used or not.

That has WHAT exactly to do with steroids? Our athletes aren't state-sponsored. That would be one BIG difference.