Teddy had it right... [Archive] - Debate Policy

jimnyc

11-04-2015, 02:33 PM

Interesting, and then I read this article.

---

Republican Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a strong contender in Iowa who surpassed amnesty advocate Jeb Bush in support, tells Breitbart News Daily “immigration without assimilation is not immigration; it’s an invasion.”

Executive chairman and host Stephen K. Bannon asked Jindal why assimilation is so critically important for where we stand as a country. The U.S. must make sure what happening in Europe doesn’t happen in America, Jindal said.

“One of the things that America is so proud of is, and rightfully so, we have been this melting pot for so long. The Left doesn’t want that anymore. They want to call us a salad bowl. They think it is culturally arrogant, or xenophobic, to insist that people that want to come to America to assimilate, and that’s nonsense,” said Jindal. “The reality is, we don’t make anybody come here. Millions of people all over the world want to come here, and folks that don’t want to be Americans shouldn’t come. And the reality is, they shouldn’t come and use our freedoms to undermine freedoms for other people.”

“Let’s be really honest about this: Immigration without assimilation is not immigration; it’s an invasion,” he said. “When you look at what’s happening in Europe, you’ve got second and third generation immigrants that don’t consider themselves parts of those societies, those cultures, those values. We mustn’t let that happen here.”

There are things we can do at home. Here at home — let’s get away from these hyphenated Americans. We’ve got a divider-in-chief in the White House. I’m tired of the “African-Americans,” the “Asian-Americans,” the rich and poor Americans. We’re all Americans. If we want a stronger immigration policy, one that makes our country stronger, not weaker — a smart one — we need to tell folks, if you want to come to our country, come here legally, learn English, adopt our values, roll up your sleeves, and get to work.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/04/bobby-jindal-immigration-without-assimilation-is-an-invasion/

Perianne

11-04-2015, 02:35 PM

It all started with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 when special groups were given special status.

fj1200

11-04-2015, 02:56 PM

http://i.imgur.com/lsNtSAj.jpg

I believe at that time he was probably referring to Southern Europeans, Catholics, etc. The Immigration Act of 1924 limited immigration to the percentages of the population in 1890.

It all started with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 when special groups were given special status.

The special status of not having laws passed restricting the rights of people based on their race?

jimnyc

11-04-2015, 03:13 PM

fj1200

11-04-2015, 03:44 PM

I wasn't being 'spot on' about it, just thought it was weird that his words back then would apply so 'spot on' for today.

Were they 'spot on' at that time?

jimnyc

11-04-2015, 05:16 PM

Were they 'spot on' at that time?

My brain hurts too much to go far in depth here - but I would say yes, that this stuff should have applied from day one.

fj1200

11-05-2015, 01:47 PM

My brain hurts too much to go far in depth here - but I would say yes, that this stuff should have applied from day one.

I guess it was good then to keep the Italians out because they did not assimilate or learn the language and they still fly the Italian flag.

jimnyc

11-05-2015, 01:55 PM

I guess it was good then to keep the Italians out because they did not assimilate or learn the language and they still fly the Italian flag.

Still like to play your little "gotcha" games with your questions, huh? Kinda lame.

Almost every Italian I know speaks very good English. I honestly don't follow their flag following habits. My wife is Italian, her grandmother right off the boat. Her grandmother, mother, aunt, and of course here - all fly American flags. All speak great English. I suppose, like immigrants from other places, there are some who never learned the language, nor a whole lot about the American way of life.

Oh, and all of the folks I know that are Italian - all came in legally.

fj1200

11-05-2015, 02:00 PM

Still like to play your little "gotcha" games with your questions, huh? Kinda lame.

Almost every Italian I know speaks very good English. I honestly don't follow their flag following habits. My wife is Italian, her grandmother right off the boat. Her grandmother, mother, aunt, and of course here - all fly American flags. All speak great English. I suppose, like immigrants from other places, there are some who never learned the language, nor a whole lot about the American way of life.

Oh, and all of the folks I know that are Italian - all came in legally.

There's no gotcha game. Teddy was wrong in his time.

jimnyc

11-05-2015, 02:03 PM

There's no gotcha game. Teddy was wrong in his time.

So you believe. I thought the message above was spot on, for then, and for now.

Gunny

11-05-2015, 02:08 PM

There's no gotcha game. Teddy was wrong in his time.

What was he wrong about? The article is EXACTLY how I think. Everyone wants to be a *something* American. How about just being American?

I'll use the "Im gay" argument as an example. I don't want you. Not in MY company. When you're "gay" BEFORE "Marine", get the f- out. Same goes with our NATION. If you aren't American first, Get the f- out.

Black Diamond

11-05-2015, 02:11 PM

http://i.imgur.com/lsNtSAj.jpg

Sounds reasonable to me

fj1200

11-05-2015, 02:13 PM

What was he wrong about? The article is EXACTLY how I think. Everyone wants to be a *something* American. How about just being American?

I'll use the "Im gay" argument as an example. I don't want you. Not in MY company. When you're "gay" BEFORE "Marine", get the f- out. Same goes with our NATION. If you aren't American first, Get the f- out.

Wrong in the sense that it was to be worried about. I agree with just being American but everyone is something else. During the World Cup I'm going to root for the Netherlands; I've never even been there but my grandparents came off the boat. I also agree with your "gay Marine" example. He should be a Marine who happens to be gay.

fj1200

11-05-2015, 02:17 PM

Sounds like it was actually from 1919.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/roosevelt-immigration/

Gunny

11-05-2015, 02:19 PM

Wrong in the sense that it was to be worried about. I agree with just being American but everyone is something else. During the World Cup I'm going to root for the Netherlands; I've never even been there but my grandparents came off the boat. I also agree with your "gay Marine" example. He should be a Marine who happens to be gay.

Mine are Scot. I don't run around in a kilt carrying a claymore. I was born in Texas. I'm from here. So my loyalties differ. I'm a Texan first. American second.

But if you come here to be an American, then be one. If you ever say how these illegals live, it's appalling. If you want to come here and live like us then do so. If you want to bring your crappy, cockroach habits with you, stay where you are.

Elessar

11-05-2015, 02:43 PM

Wrong in the sense that it was to be worried about. I agree with just being American but everyone is something else. During the World Cup I'm going to root for the Netherlands; I've never even been there but my grandparents came off the boat. I also agree with your "gay Marine" example. He should be a Marine who happens to be gay.

Well....TR's comment is right on the mark as are the responses about hyphenated "Americans".

My Dad's Grandparents came across from Austria in 1898, and assimilated to this Nation,
leaving behind a business with his brother that still exists to this day - a great candy factory.
They established a business in Cicero Illinois that my grandfather kept going even through
to the 60's, even enduring the mob crime in the 30's.

Never did they call themselves Austrian-Americans.

fj1200

11-05-2015, 02:52 PM

Well....TR's comment is right on the mark as are the responses about hyphenated "Americans".

I'm only saying that he didn't have need of being worried about it back then.

Gunny

11-05-2015, 02:56 PM

I'm only saying that he didn't have need of being worried about it back then.

Sure he did. We became global under his watch. Not saying I agree with being global, but he had to do something. His comment, in context, just says what it should ... if you come here to be an American then don't bring your crappy baggage with you. Want a better life? Then get one. Through the front door, legally. Feel free to leave your trashy habits where you learned them.

Elessar

11-05-2015, 06:13 PM

Sure he did. We became global under his watch. Not saying I agree with being global, but he had to do something. His comment, in context, just says what it should ... if you come here to be an American then don't bring your crappy baggage with you. Want a better life? Then get one. Through the front door, legally. Feel free to leave your trashy habits where you learned them.

The door swings both ways.

fj1200

11-05-2015, 06:24 PM

hjmick

11-05-2015, 07:00 PM

"The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing as a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities." - Theodore Roosevelt

Years ago, before I ventured into the Interwebs, I wrote and spoke of the Balkanization of this country. People thought I was nuts, well, at least they looked at me as though I were nuts...

Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or uncooperative with one another.

Well, I still think it will happen, not in my lifetime, but probably not soon after...

Google "the balkanization of America," plenty of articles out there... Grabbed that Roosevelt quote from one of them...

Gunny

11-05-2015, 07:19 PM

Wish we had Teddy back. I like rednecks.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-05-2015, 08:28 PM

I believe at that time he was probably referring to Southern Europeans, Catholics, etc. The Immigration Act of 1924 limited immigration to the percentages of the population in 1890.

And how would it change what he said--if indeed it was about those groups. Were they not--immigrants???
And where they not humans?
So his words apply equally today to those coming in as illegal immigrants--perhaps even more so!

You blather that comment out as if it made some important point.

If it did(have a point) and that point disputes Teddy's words -do explain. -Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-05-2015, 08:35 PM

There's no gotcha game. Teddy was wrong in his time.

^^^ Insane answer.
Teddy was not wrong but to say he was , is an indirect way for you to defend illegals coming in now.
As usual you defend anything thats anti-conservative while you masquerade as a right-winger.

Explain how Teddy(whom you aren't fit to polish his boots) was wrong.......
I bet you either spin it or ignore it altogether. :laugh::laugh::laugh:--Tyr

fj1200

11-06-2015, 08:38 AM

And how would it change what he said--if indeed it was about those groups. Were they not--immigrants???
And where they not humans?
So his words apply equally today to those coming in as illegal immigrants--perhaps even more so!

You blather that comment out as if it made some important point.

If it did(have a point) and that point disputes Teddy's words -do explain. -Tyr

I did explain. Not long after his words, again apparently in 1919 from a letter, came the Emergency Quota Act of '21 and the Immigration Act of '24 and that act limited immigration to an arbitrary point in time. It was designed to limit immigration of certain peoples. Fine words they may be but unnecessary if they were based on a xenophobic viewpoint. We apparently didn't need worry about Italians, for example, integrating into American society.

History; it's an interesting thing. Learn it.

^^^ Insane answer.
Teddy was not wrong but to say he was , is an indirect way for you to defend illegals coming in now.
As usual you defend anything thats anti-conservative while you masquerade as a right-winger.

Explain how Teddy(whom you aren't fit to polish his boots) was wrong.......
I bet you either spin it or ignore it altogether. :laugh::laugh::laugh:--Tyr

You aren't fit to polish his boots either; so there. :rolleyes: Save your stupid comments and imaginatory musings for your rant threads.

Gunny

11-06-2015, 08:56 AM

Could y'all not turn everything into a pissing contest please?

Roosevelt's words are as applicable today as they were when he said them. He was far from a nice guy. He had "Little Man's syndrome". Always trying to prove something. But he was better than anything we've got going today.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-06-2015, 09:10 AM

Still like to play your little "gotcha" games with your questions, huh? Kinda lame.

Almost every Italian I know speaks very good English. I honestly don't follow their flag following habits. My wife is Italian, her grandmother right off the boat. Her grandmother, mother, aunt, and of course here - all fly American flags. All speak great English. I suppose, like immigrants from other places, there are some who never learned the language, nor a whole lot about the American way of life.

Oh, and all of the folks I know that are Italian - all came in legally.

fj misses details like you just gave as he quips out what he thinks is clever oneupmanship one-liners.
And have I missed where explain how the specific groups Teddy was addressing negated Teddy's brilliant and prophetic points made?--Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-06-2015, 09:14 AM

I did explain. Not long after his words, again apparently in 1919 from a letter, came the Emergency Quota Act of '21 and the Immigration Act of '24 and that act limited immigration to an arbitrary point in time. It was designed to limit immigration of certain peoples. Fine words they may be but unnecessary if they were based on a xenophobic viewpoint. We apparently didn't need worry about Italians, for example, integrating into American society.

History; it's an interesting thing. Learn it.

You aren't fit to polish his boots either; so there. :rolleyes: Save your stupid comments and imaginatory musings for your rant threads.

Are you that damn delusional? None of that negates the truth, the principles in Teddy's speech.
God god--you are about as smart as a damn brick!
You say -he talked about these groups and not these.
When he talked about immigrants= new arrivals dumbass and
the race/nationality of those groups do nothing to refute his words !!
Am I speaking to a ten year old kid?? Serious question! -Tyr

Drummond

11-06-2015, 09:36 AM

We were a country of immigrants and I'm not sure what sort of problem we might have been having that would engender his comment. AFAIK we didn't have any immigration restrictions until '24.

The UK is fast becoming 'a country of immigrants' itself, never more so than in recent years. Why ? Because our LEFTIES made sure of it.

The beliefs and attitudes you are displaying, FJ, strongly resemble those which our more 'liberal' people on this side of the Pond would identify with. Such attitudes facilitate the erosive effect such immigration has.

But here's the difference - America, regardless of your 'country of immigrants' argument, nonetheless has its Constitution, and still, nonetheless, created its own national identity. Roosevelt wanted that preserved, obviously, and his mindset, properly applied, worked towards that reality. But unrestrained tolerance of immigration, and insistence that it becomes the norm, MURDERS that identity.

Roosevelt obviously understood that, and as a true patriot, stood up for his own country AS ITS OWN COUNTRY. Your own country, today, and most certainly my own, could do with a lot more of this in their political lives.

Gunny

11-06-2015, 09:48 AM

The UK is fast becoming 'a country of immigrants' itself, never more so than in recent years. Why ? Because our LEFTIES made sure of it.

The beliefs and attitudes you are displaying, FJ, strongly resemble those which our more 'liberal' people on this side of the Pond would identify with. Such attitudes facilitate the erosive effect such immigration has.

But here's the difference - America, regardless of your 'country of immigrants' argument, nonetheless has its Constitution, and still, nonetheless, created its own national identity. Roosevelt wanted that preserved, obviously, and his mindset, properly applied, worked towards that reality. But unrestrained tolerance of immigration, and insistence that it becomes the norm, MURDERS that identity.

Roosevelt obviously understood that, and as a true patriot, stood up for his own country AS ITS OWN COUNTRY. Your own country, today, and most certainly my own, could do with a lot more of this in their political lives.

We are ALL from immigrants. That isn't the issue with me. English people are mostly Euro/French. Scots and Irish are Nordic. Your country and mine seem to have an affinity for being invaded from within by our own stupid rules.

fj1200

11-06-2015, 09:57 AM

Could y'all not turn everything into a pissing contest please?

The intellectually weak are unable to discuss topics so they have to discuss people.

fj misses details like you just gave...

Au contraire. I didn't miss those details, I embraced those details because they reinforce my point.

You say -he talked about these groups and not these.
When he talked about immigrants= new arrivals

I don't say he talked about any specific groups, I'm pointing out facts of what happened in immigration acts that occurred after his letter. Also, where did I suggest that immigrants were not new arrivals? Nevertheless there was little truth in his words as I've shown because immigrants did assimilate into American society; are you suggesting that they did not? You could address that or you could continue to rant.

The UK is fast becoming 'a country of immigrants' itself...

The topic is early 1900's America and the fact that we are and were a country of immigrants. Your xenophobia is another thread. Do you believe that all immigration is "leftie"? The history of the United States proves otherwise.

fj1200

11-06-2015, 09:58 AM

We are ALL from immigrants. That isn't the issue with me. English people are mostly Euro/French. Scots and Irish are Nordic. Your country and mine seem to have an affinity for being invaded from within by our own stupid rules.

Amen to that.

Drummond

11-06-2015, 11:33 AM

The topic is early 1900's America and the fact that we are and were a country of immigrants. Your xenophobia is another thread. Do you believe that all immigration is "leftie"? The history of the United States proves otherwise.

Ahem .. no. The topic centred around Roosevelt's position in regard to immigration, and the importance, certainly as he saw it, of immigrants being definably AMERICAN in their loyalties and attitudes. Check back to the first post of this thread.

My answer, though not being very grounded in the period Roosevelt covered, nonetheless spoke to the topic of immigration's effects, and was pertinent. YOU, on the other hand, are keeping this focused on a more general issue of immigration itself, which keeps you more in line with a Left-wing consideration of immigration.

A paragraph from my previous post (.. don't forget to rewrite it, if or when you reply), said:

But here's the difference - America, regardless of your 'country of immigrants' argument, nonetheless has its Constitution, and still, nonetheless, created its own national identity. Roosevelt wanted that preserved, obviously, and his mindset, properly applied, worked towards that reality. But unrestrained tolerance of immigration, and insistence that it becomes the norm, MURDERS that identity.

What you Leftily label as 'xenophobic', is sheer FACT. I've seen it in my country, where unparalleled immigration has resulted in ghetto-like sub-communities springing up, of immigrants having no interest in integration. Roosevelt, even when he was speaking, addressed the need to retain national identity. It isn't 'xenophobic' to have concerns which address that .. though, THE LEFT will happily demonise in that fashion.

fj1200

11-06-2015, 01:52 PM

Ahem .. no. The topic centred around Roosevelt's position in regard to immigration, and the importance, certainly as he saw it, of immigrants being definably AMERICAN in their loyalties and attitudes. Check back to the first post of this thread.

You can't ignore context especially when it shows your error. His quote is from early 1900's America and needs to be read in context of that.

It is interesting to see you speaking out in favor of an early progressive though. :)

Abbey Marie

11-06-2015, 02:06 PM

...
I don't say he talked about any specific groups, I'm pointing out facts of what happened in immigration acts that occurred after his letter. Also, where did I suggest that immigrants were not new arrivals? Nevertheless there was little truth in his words as I've shown because immigrants did assimilate into American society; are you suggesting that they did not? You could address that or you could continue to rant.
...

But, in Post #8, you said the Italians did not assimilate, or learn English, and still fly the Italian flag.

:dunno:

fj1200

11-06-2015, 02:12 PM

But, in Post #8, you said the Italians did not assimilate, or learn English, and still fly the Italian flag.

:dunno:

Sarcasm. :)

Abbey Marie

11-06-2015, 02:13 PM

Sarcasm. :)

I actually thought so, but I had to check. :coffee:

jimnyc

11-06-2015, 04:20 PM

Sarcasm. :)

Don't worry, I saw that it was sarcasm and playing gotcha - or you could have just been direct with me in your questioning, or made a statement - but you were hoping I would say something so that you could pounce. It didn't work out that way though. His words rung true back then and now. And the Italians did in fact assimilate. The point about assimilation and language and such should have held true from the beginning, did - and still should now.