Why phones are needed in schools.

[Noir]

All this recent talk about the Spring Valley High School lark sent me on a trek to find various videos from my school days that are posted round the net.

This has to be my fav, encompassing the character of my american politics class: Sitting in a room decorated with stolen political signs - Big Joe is leading the choir from the front, drew is having a power nap, I'm actually working (<s>traitor?</s>), the front tables are engaged in a battle of wits - hangman or boxes, and the back tables are enjoying (as they so often did) a drawing of a penis.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mCCGvMSfrDg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Without phones in classrooms this relic of our past would be gone, and the world would be a worse place for it.
Save our phones, so they can save the present, for the future :salute:

[Gunny]

All this recent talk about the Spring Valley High School lark sent me on a trek to find various videos from my school days that are posted round the net.

This has to be my fav, encompassing the character of my american politics class: Sitting in a room decorated with stolen political signs - Big Joe is leading the choir from the front, drew is having a power nap, I'm actually working (<s>traitor?</s>), the front tables are engaged in a battle of wits - hangman or boxes, and the back tables are enjoying (as they so often did) a drawing of a penis.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mCCGvMSfrDg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

Without phones in classrooms this relic of our past would be gone, and the world would be a worse place for it.
Save our phones, so they can save the present, for the future :salute:

No reason whatsoever to have a phone in class. It's disruptive and disrespectful to the person trying to teach you something. Not to mention you can use them now to cheat n tests. If the test is history or English lit, nobody cares what your phone knows.

[jimnyc]

All this recent talk about the Spring Valley High School lark sent me on a trek to find various videos from my school days that are posted round the net.

This has to be my fav, encompassing the character of my american politics class: Sitting in a room decorated with stolen political signs - Big Joe is leading the choir from the front, drew is having a power nap, I'm actually working (<s>traitor?</s>), the front tables are engaged in a battle of wits - hangman or boxes, and the back tables are enjoying (as they so often did) a drawing of a penis.

Without phones in classrooms this relic of our past would be gone, and the world would be a worse place for it.
Save our phones, so they can save the present, for the future :salute:

I want my 38 seconds back!! And I should have stopped it at about 33 seconds! LOL

I am VERY thankful that we didn't have such recording devices when I was in school, I would have been tossed out by the 5th grade!!

[DragonStryk72]

No reason whatsoever to have a phone in class. It's disruptive and disrespectful to the person trying to teach you something. Not to mention you can use them now to cheat n tests. If the test is history or English lit, nobody cares what your phone knows.

Oh please, like they need the phones. How long have kids been cheating on test? At least since my time in school, and they certainly didn't have cells.

[Gunny]

Oh please, like they need the phones. How long have kids been cheating on test? At least since my time in school, and they certainly didn't have cells.

Don't know. I never cheated on a test. I'm a geek. I always figured if I just guessed it would be better than the dumbasses who sat around me. I made straight A's until high school on my own. I didn't have a PC nor a cell.

[sundaydriver]

My 45th class reunion was this year and I don't need video to remind me of days like that in class...they were forever burned into my brain back then.

[jimnyc]

Oh please, like they need the phones. How long have kids been cheating on test? At least since my time in school, and they certainly didn't have cells.

BIG difference - there are programs on cell phones where you can just take a picture of math problems and algebra and such to get the answers. There wasn't any way close to do that kind of crap back in the day. Hell, kids can even text friends now for answers. There's been a HUGE leap in ability to cheat since cell phones came out, and then got more and more advanced.

Here's a story about one of them (may be gone now)

-----

The hottest recent iPhone app debut isn’t about photo sharing or social networking: PhotoMath, which just launched last week, uses an iPhone’s camera to read and solve math problems in real time. It led Apple’s iOS store in overall US downloads last Wednesday and remained there into early this week. (It is currently No. 2 in the US store).

More than six million people have downloaded the app since its launch, according to Microblink, the Croatia-based developer of PhotoMath. It has become the no. 1 app in 82 countries, according to app store-tracker App Annie (registration required).

“We’ve been blown away with the response from users,” Izet Zdralovic, co-founder of Microblink, tells Quartz. “With PhotoMath, we feel we’ve connected two unusual things—real-time data with optical character recognition (OCR) and math—and that has never been done before.”

As we noted at the time of the app’s launch, the technology behind the app works like this: A user points a mobile camera at a mathematical equation. The app recognizes the problem and does the math. Within one to two seconds, the app sends back a solution to the equation—along with a step-by-step process on how to solve the problem. A valuable aid for a student eager to understand the process or check her work—or an easy shortcut for the crafty cheater ordered by a teacher to “show your work.”

http://qz.com/288396/this-weeks-top-new-iphone-app-is-helping-kids-cheat-on-their-math-homework/

[Noir]

BIG difference - there are programs on cell phones where you can just take a picture of math problems and algebra and such to get the answers. There wasn't any way close to do that kind of crap back in the day. Hell, kids can even text friends now for answers. There's been a HUGE leap in ability to cheat since cell phones came out, and then got more and more advanced.

Here's a story about one of them (may be gone now)

(Maybe this could actually be a topic for a more serious thread/subform)
Perhaps academic standards need to be reflective of our technological advances, and not artificially devoid of them.

[jimnyc]

(Maybe this could actually be a topic for a more serious thread/subform)
Perhaps academic standards need to be reflective of our technological advances, and not artificially devoid of them.

Start a thread then! But I'd likely agree mostly. I have no issues with using calculators for most things, because lets face it, that's what you'll use in real life. But using the camera to finish problems? I think that's clearly cheating. Gotta work the brain out a little!

[Gunny]

(Maybe this could actually be a topic for a more serious thread/subform)
Perhaps academic standards need to be reflective of our technological advances, and not artificially devoid of them.

You think so? And WTF do you think happens when the enemy scrambles your grid and you have to think for yourself? You just going to lay down and die? Or wait for someone to come save you? Or maybe you can stare at you f-ing phone screen or computer waiting for it to come back on.

Keep your damned phone out of class and actually LEARN something. Might save your a$$ some day.

[DragonStryk72]

BIG difference - there are programs on cell phones where you can just take a picture of math problems and algebra and such to get the answers. There wasn't any way close to do that kind of crap back in the day. Hell, kids can even text friends now for answers. There's been a HUGE leap in ability to cheat since cell phones came out, and then got more and more advanced.

Here's a story about one of them (may be gone now)

-----

The hottest recent iPhone app debut isn’t about photo sharing or social networking: PhotoMath, which just launched last week, uses an iPhone’s camera to read and solve math problems in real time. It led Apple’s iOS store in overall US downloads last Wednesday and remained there into early this week. (It is currently No. 2 in the US store).

More than six million people have downloaded the app since its launch, according to Microblink, the Croatia-based developer of PhotoMath. It has become the no. 1 app in 82 countries, according to app store-tracker App Annie (registration required).

“We’ve been blown away with the response from users,” Izet Zdralovic, co-founder of Microblink, tells Quartz. “With PhotoMath, we feel we’ve connected two unusual things—real-time data with optical character recognition (OCR) and math—and that has never been done before.”

As we noted at the time of the app’s launch, the technology behind the app works like this: A user points a mobile camera at a mathematical equation. The app recognizes the problem and does the math. Within one to two seconds, the app sends back a solution to the equation—along with a step-by-step process on how to solve the problem. A valuable aid for a student eager to understand the process or check her work—or an easy shortcut for the crafty cheater ordered by a teacher to “show your work.”

http://qz.com/288396/this-weeks-top-new-iphone-app-is-helping-kids-cheat-on-their-math-homework/

Jim, I want you to write down. 25-50 equations, and take a picture of each individual one, and tell me when you'd have gotten caught. Think about it: maybe, MAYBE, you get one answer without getting nailed. After that you're basically screwed. And one answer on a test just isn't going to help you pass. Then there's the time involved. A standard 25 question test, assuming you even 30 seconds per question, means 12.5 minutes of staring at your phone. That's without figuring for writing. I'm pretty sure the teacher will notice somethings up. Pretty sure the teacher will have noticed you staring at your phone for more than half the class.

As well, there are free graphing calculator apps that can save parents 100 bucks or more over having to buy one of the Texas Instruments ones.

[jimnyc]

Jim, I want you to write down. 25-50 equations, and take a picture of each individual one, and tell me when you'd have gotten caught. Think about it: maybe, MAYBE, you get one answer without getting nailed. After that you're basically screwed. And one answer on a test just isn't going to help you pass. Then there's the time involved. A standard 25 question test, assuming you even 30 seconds per question, means 12.5 minutes of staring at your phone. That's without figuring for writing. I'm pretty sure the teacher will notice somethings up. Pretty sure the teacher will have noticed you staring at your phone for more than half the class.

As well, there are free graphing calculator apps that can save parents 100 bucks or more over having to buy one of the Texas Instruments ones.

How else do kids cheat? On their arms, on paper, in books... whatever it is they did, they were generally taken away from the test paper, and onto something else that had the answers. Other than the 1-2 seconds to snap the shot, the time shouldn't be much different than other things they look at to cheat.

I am trying this right now - "Photomath" - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microblink.photomath&hl=en

Now I just went here - http://www.basic-mathematics.com/basic-math-formulas.html

Granted, the problems were on my screen, but each one took 2-3 seconds for me to get an answer from. Yikes!

[sundaydriver]

Whenever one of the local school districts wants to limit the phones in the classroom, there is always a bunch of the Mothers screaming that they need to be able to have instant access to their kids and the school has no right to limit that by only allowing the kids to have their phones only at lunch and kept in their lockers during classes. I just don't get it?

[DragonStryk72]

How else do kids cheat? On their arms, on paper, in books... whatever it is they did, they were generally taken away from the test paper, and onto something else that had the answers. Other than the 1-2 seconds to snap the shot, the time shouldn't be much different than other things they look at to cheat.

I am trying this right now - "Photomath" - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microblink.photomath&hl=en

Now I just went here - http://www.basic-mathematics.com/basic-math-formulas.html

Granted, the problems were on my screen, but each one took 2-3 seconds for me to get an answer from. Yikes!

So basically, you didn't do what I said, proving nothing. 25-50 equations, take a pic of each individual one from a piece of paper, and remember, you have to show your work, or the answer is wrong. Be certain to also have someone watching you during the testing, and you have to copy down the work and answer that's on your phone each time. Oh, and if your phone has a photo snap noise, you're busted right off the bat. Bear in mind every time that you directly point the camera at the test paper is a dead giveaway that somethings up.

Zooming in properly is going to be another issue, since being too close to the sheet will obscure the light, and either pop the flash, or not be bright enough to read properly. It means doing the unpinch motion each time, which almost everyone knows is a zoom move these days, us time for auto focus to work it's magic.

Using other means to sneak the answers in from outside the class is no different from any prior setups for cheating, and generally require prior knowledge of the test to be relevant. We have not banned pens and paper from class, which are much more prolifically used to cheat.

[jimnyc]

So basically, you didn't do what I said, proving nothing. 25-50 equations, take a pic of each individual one from a piece of paper, and remember, you have to show your work, or the answer is wrong. Be certain to also have someone watching you during the testing, and you have to copy down the work and answer that's on your phone each time. Oh, and if your phone has a photo snap noise, you're busted right off the bat. Bear in mind every time that you directly point the camera at the test paper is a dead giveaway that somethings up.

Zooming in properly is going to be another issue, since being too close to the sheet will obscure the light, and either pop the flash, or not be bright enough to read properly. It means doing the unpinch motion each time, which almost everyone knows is a zoom move these days, us time for auto focus to work it's magic.

Using other means to sneak the answers in from outside the class is no different from any prior setups for cheating, and generally require prior knowledge of the test to be relevant. We have not banned pens and paper from class, which are much more prolifically used to cheat.

No noise, no flash, extremely easy to focus. Again, took me about 2-3 seconds per equation. Yes, there is no showing of the work, but not all teachers require such, and that holds true to my kids teachers today. Sometimes they do, sometimes not. All depends on the type of math. Best way to ensure no shortcuts are taken? Keep the phones out of the classroom. There is NO reason that they should be there.

[jimnyc]

Whenever one of the local school districts wants to limit the phones in the classroom, there is always a bunch of the Mothers screaming that they need to be able to have instant access to their kids and the school has no right to limit that by only allowing the kids to have their phones only at lunch and kept in their lockers during classes. I just don't get it?

Yup, kid had that issue too. Parents now have direct numbers at my kids school to the counselors who can retrieve the kid in seconds and get their phones for them. And yup, they're allowed to use them at lunch and study classes.

[Gunny]

So basically, you didn't do what I said, proving nothing. 25-50 equations, take a pic of each individual one from a piece of paper, and remember, you have to show your work, or the answer is wrong. Be certain to also have someone watching you during the testing, and you have to copy down the work and answer that's on your phone each time. Oh, and if your phone has a photo snap noise, you're busted right off the bat. Bear in mind every time that you directly point the camera at the test paper is a dead giveaway that somethings up.

Zooming in properly is going to be another issue, since being too close to the sheet will obscure the light, and either pop the flash, or not be bright enough to read properly. It means doing the unpinch motion each time, which almost everyone knows is a zoom move these days, us time for auto focus to work it's magic.

Using other means to sneak the answers in from outside the class is no different from any prior setups for cheating, and generally require prior knowledge of the test to be relevant. We have not banned pens and paper from class, which are much more prolifically used to cheat.

I remember the "show your work" thing. That was out of style by the time MY kids were in school. It's a LOT different than prior setups for cheating. Prior setups required hiding something a LOT bigger than a cell phone.