Blair admits fall of Iraq aided rise of Isis

[gabosaurus]

I knew the truth would come out once Blair was placed on the hot seat. Blair was in on this from the beginning and will confirm what really went on. :cool:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/25/tony-blair-sorry-iraq-war-mistakes-admits-conflict-role-in-rise-of-isis


“I apologise for the fact that the intelligence we received was wrong,” he told CNN. “I also apologise for some of the mistakes in planning and, certainly, our mistake in our understanding of what would happen once you removed the regime.”

Asked by host Fareed Zakaria if the Iraq war was “the principal cause” of the rise of Islamic State, he was reported by the Mail on Sunday to have conceded: “I think there are elements of truth in that.”

[Christie Brinkley]

Not really a full apology. To be honest he would be better if he just kept denying he did anything wrong as it would probably cause less trouble for him.

[Noir]

Hos dtaements are always vague enough that anyone can read whatever they want into his answers, and then argue among themselves about the interpretation rather than hold him to account.

[Gunny]

I knew the truth would come out once Blair was placed on the hot seat. Blair was in on this from the beginning and will confirm what really went on. :cool:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/25/tony-blair-sorry-iraq-war-mistakes-admits-conflict-role-in-rise-of-isis

Newsflash" Do you ever read? Typical leftwinger covering their own NAZI BS by accusing the other side.

We didn't invade Iraq in 91 because it would have created a power vacuum and in the end it proved to be true. But once done, you can easily blame Obama for declaring victory and pulling us out too soon. HE is responsible for ISIS being in IRraq because last I checked, before he withdrew our troops, we had control of all those cities ISIS now controls despite you lefties tying the military's hands behind their backs.

Before you post propaganda, try educating yourself. I didn't agree with invading Iraq; especially, since we were already in a war in Afghanistan. Once in though, you win and you secure your perimeter and maintain for as long as it takes. It appears YOUR worst President in history doesn't know a damned thing about securing a perimeter. He can't even secure our own Southern border.

[NightTrain]

Newsflash" Do you ever read? Typical leftwinger covering their own NAZI BS by accusing the other side.

We didn't invade Iraq in 91 because it would have created a power vacuum and in the end it proved to be true. But once done, you can easily blame Obama for declaring victory and pulling us out too soon. HE is responsible for ISIS being in IRraq because last I checked, before he withdrew our troops, we had control of all those cities ISIS now controls despite you lefties tying the military's hands behind their backs.

Before you post propaganda, try educating yourself. I didn't agree with invading Iraq; especially, since we were already in a war in Afghanistan. Once in though, you win and you secure your perimeter and maintain for as long as it takes. It appears YOUR worst President in history doesn't know a damned thing about securing a perimeter. He can't even secure our own Southern border.

Truth.

[revelarts]

Newsflash" Do you ever read? Typical leftwinger covering their own NAZI BS by accusing the other side.

We didn't invade Iraq in 91 because it would have created a power vacuum and in the end it proved to be true. But once done, you can easily blame Obama for declaring victory and pulling us out too soon. HE is responsible for ISIS being in IRraq because last I checked, before he withdrew our troops, we had control of all those cities ISIS now controls despite you lefties tying the military's hands behind their backs.

Before you post propaganda, try educating yourself. I didn't agree with invading Iraq; especially, since we were already in a war in Afghanistan. Once in though, you win and you secure your perimeter and maintain for as long as it takes. It appears YOUR worst President in history doesn't know a damned thing about securing a perimeter. He can't even secure our own Southern border.


But that's not the whole story
3 thing briefly,

1st Bush set up the the timing on the 2011 withdrawal, and unless we want to say that Bush NEVER intended to honor that agreement then Obama can't have the whole blame on the withdrawal.

2nd the Isis Fighters are made up partly of the same Syrian and Libyan rebels that Obama and the people like McCAin and Garahm and even Romney agreed with and egged on trained and supplied.

3rd Many of the people in the ISIS in Iraq and in Syria NOW are some of the 40,000 former Bathist military of Saddam that were stupidly put on the streets without jobs or pensions by Bush's Iraq supreme commander Bremer shortly after the Iraqi "victory".


Does Obama hold a part of the bag on this, absolutely. Is it allon him? No, not even close, it started with the stupid illegal invasion of Iraq and went downhill from there.

[revelarts]

Quote:

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As the Islamic State continues its march through Syria and Iraq, the jihadist group is quietly utilizing a network of former members of Saddam Hussein’s Baath Party to help militarize a fighting force that has effectively erased the border between both nations and left roughly 6 million people under its rule.

The extent of this seemingly mismatched alliance is detailed in a new report by the New York-based intelligence firm, The Soufan Group. Despite a deep philosophical divide between ISIS and the Baath Party, the two sides have found “sufficient coincidence of interest to overcome any ideological disagreement,” the analysis, which will be released on Wednesday, found.

This “marriage of convenience,” as the report’s author, Richard Barrett describes it, can be seen throughout the ISIS hierarchy. The current head of the group’s military council, for example, is believed to be Abu Ahmad al Alwani, an ex-member of Saddam Hussein’s army. So too was al Alwani’s predecessor. Another member of the military council, Abu Muhanad al Sweidawi, was once a lieutenant colonel in Hussein’s air defense intelligence, but by early 2014 was heading ISIS operations in western Syria, according to the report.

Similarly, two deputies to the Islamic State’s self-proclaimed caliph, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, are former Baathists: Abu Muslim al Afari al Turkmani is believed to have been a senior special forces officer and a member of military intelligence in Hussein’s army. Today, as Baghdadi’s number two, he supervises ISIS operations in Iraq. The second deputy, Abu Ali al Anbari oversees operations in Syria. Both men are also thought to serve on the Islamic State’s main governing body, known as the Shura Council.

Even the appointment of al Baghdadi to lead the Islamic State of Iraq in 2010 is reported by an ISIS defector to have been engineered by a former Baathist: Haji Bakr, an ex-colonel from the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard. Bakr “initially attracted criticism from fellow members of the group for his lack of a proper beard and lax observance of other dictates of their religious practice,” the report notes, “But his organizational skills, knowledge of the Iraqi Army and network of fellow ex-Baathists made him a valuable resource.”....

The incentives for ex-Baathists may be equally opportunistic.

“What the Baathists probably get out of it is a way back into Iraq,” says Brian Fishman, a counterterrorism research fellow at the New America Foundation. Before the Islamic State’s emergence, Fishman notes, many Baathists had been effectively forced out of Iraq to neighboring Syria. Today, they’re back home, slowly acquiring influence and territory.

The question is, how long can the alliance last? One of the few points the two groups agree on, analysts say, is restoring Sunni rule in Iraq. Fundamentally, however, ISIS is focused on expanding the Islamic caliphate that it declared on June 29, 2014. For its part, the Baath Party in Iraq has been a largely secular, nationalist movement.

Some fissures have already begun to surface. In July, for example, Reuters reported that Sunni militants that helped ISIS capture Mosul rounded up as many as 60 senior ex-military officers and other onetime members of the Baath Party. That same month, a rival Sunni group made up of many former Baathists issued a statement denouncing the Islamic State’s persecution of Iraq’s religious minorities.

But predicting just how deep any split may go is hard to tell. On the one hand, says Barrett, ex-Baathists may decide it’s in their interest to continue harnessing the energy of ISIS in order to regain prominence in Iraq. Barrett says its easy to see ex-Baathists then tell themselves, “Once we achieve our objectives, our political objectives, then we’ll sort out all this business about these crazies who believe in a caliphate.”

On the other hand, Baathists may simply come to the conclusion that there is nowhere else for them to go. “They’re going to make the best of a bad job in a way,” Barrett says.

</tbody>


How Saddam’s Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS | The Rise of ISIS | FRONTLINE | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/iraq-war-on-terror/rise-of-isis/how-saddams-former-soldiers-are-fueling-the-rise-of-isis/)


U.S. dissolves Iraqi army, Defense and Information ministries
2003
Quote:

<tbody>
From Jane Arraf
CNN Baghdad Bureau Chief
Friday, May 23, 2003 Posted: 8:07 AM EDT (1207 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Sweeping away remnants of pre-war Iraq, Paul Bremer, the top U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, on Friday dissolved the Iraqi Armed Forces, the ministries of Defense and Information, and other security institutions that supported Saddam Hussein's regime.

An American senior coalition official said the move effectively disbands the Army, the Republican Guard and the Revolutionary Command Council, among others, and cancels any military or other ranks conferred by the previous regime.

"These actions are part of a robust campaign to show the Iraqi people that the Saddam regime is gone and will never return," the official said.

It also puts an estimated 350,000 to 400,000 soldiers out of work, as well as an estimated 2,000 Information Ministry employees.

Military members of the rank of colonel and above will not be entitled to severance packages and cannot work for the new Iraqi government, once it is established. Any soldier below the rank of colonel would be eligible to enlist in a new army.

CNN.com - U.S. dissolves Iraqi army, Defense and Information ministries - May. 23, 2003 (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/23/sprj.nitop.army.dissolve/)

</tbody>




Paul Bremer on Iraq, ten years on: 'We made major strategic mistakes. But I still think Iraqis are far better off'
Quote:

<tbody>
The first orders he issued as the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority were to ban members of the Ba'ath Party from holding public office, and to disband the Iraqi army.

Within months one of the bloodiest insurgencies in modern times was under way. There were also accusations of massive financial mismanagement. In 2005 a US administration report discovered that around $9bn allocated for reconstruction had disappeared. There was not, however, any suggestion that Mr Bremer was personally culpable for this.

Today, a decade on from the invasion, Mr Bremer strongly defends his decisions. "We took opinion polls... De-Baathification never polled below 95 per cent approval. The mistake I made was to turn this over to a small group of Iraqi politicians, and they then broadened it. I think that hurt us because it gave the impression that we were prepared to carry out a really wholesale De-Baathification of the entire society. And that was clearly not our intention."

He also stressed the decision to disband the army was approved by the British and US governments before he issued his famous decree, and admits to other shortcomings - especially his regime's failure to get the country going again. "To defeat insurgency you have to defeat them but also improve lives... clear, secure and build. We never really got the first phase done - securing the population, especially in large urban areas."...

Paul Bremer on Iraq, ten years on: 'We made major strategic mistakes. But I still think Iraqis are far better off' - Middle East - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/paul-bremer-on-iraq-ten-years-on-we-made-major-strategic-mistakes-but-i-still-think-iraqis-are-far-better-off-8539767.html)

</tbody>



Quote:

<tbody>
...Among the documents released is Bremer’s memo to Rumsfeld informing him of his intent to issue Order #2. In that memo, with the subject heading “Dissolution of the Ministry of Defense [MOD] and Related Entities” and dated May 19, 2003, Bremer stated, “In the coming days I propose to issue the attached order (Tab A) carrying forward the de-Ba’athification effort by dissolving Saddam’s key security ministries…. The order also makes clear we will begin the process of establishing new armed forces for the new Iraq to provide for legitimate self-defense needs.” Bremer also noted that “The order will affect large numbers of people: There were some 400,000 employees of the MOD alone”, and acknowledged “the risks of serious discontent, increased terrorism, and much higher crime rates that may result if we cut of [sic] all military and security sector pensioners in a heavily militarized society.”....Documents Indicate Policy Plan That Fueled Iraqi Insurgency Was Compartmentalized in Rumsfeld's Pentagon | Foreign Policy Journal (http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/17/documents-indicate-policy-plan-that-fueled-iraqi-insurgency-was-compartmentalized-in-rumsfelds-pentagon/)


</tbody>

[revelarts]

IMO Obama's role.
Lybia and Syria created the safe havens with the Republican cheerleading for both. But he's the president.

His Support for AQ/Isis/AlNusra/ rebels in Libya and Syria laid ground work for the moves back into Iraq and the further rise of Isis.
There was "secret" training in Jordan
"U.S. TRAINED ISLAMISTS WHO JOINED ISIS
Secret Jordan base was site of covert aid to insurgents targeting Assad"
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/officials...Sj3aTpPGvQt.99 (http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/officials-u-s-trained-isis-at-secret-base-in-jordan/#3Me7rSj3aTpPGvQt.99)
Among other training, weapons and supplies given to the Syrian rebels/ISIS over the years.

Our "good friends" the Saudis have given billions of the years to these Wahhabist islamist "rebels".

Saudi Arabia has been a major source of financing to rebel and terrorist organisations since the 1970s, thanks to the amount it has spent on spreading its puritan version of Islam, developed by Mohammed Abdul Wahhab in the 18th century. The US State Department has estimated that over the past four decades Riyadh has invested more than $10bn into charitable foundations in an attempt to replace mainstream Sunni Islam with the harsh intolerance of its Wahhabism. EU intelligence experts estimate that 15 to 20 percent of this has been diverted to al-Qa'ida and other violent jihadists
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/isis-having-spent-billions-the-wahhabists-of-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-find-they-have-created-a-monster-30533853.html

[Gunny]

But that's not the whole story
3 thing briefly,

1st Bush set up the the timing on the 2011 withdrawal, and unless we want to say that Bush NEVER intended to honor that agreement then Obama can't have the whole blame on the withdrawal.

2nd the Isis Fighters are made up partly of the same Syrian and Libyan rebels that Obama and the people like McCAin and Garahm and even Romney agreed with and egged on trained and supplied.

3rd Many of the people in the ISIS in Iraq and in Syria NOW are some of the 40,000 former Bathist military of Saddam that were stupidly put on the streets without jobs or pensions by Bush's Iraq supreme commander Bremer shortly after the Iraqi "victory".


Does Obama hold a part of the bag on this, absolutely. Is it allon him? No, not even close, it started with the stupid illegal invasion of Iraq and went downhill from there.

Dude, I ain't reading your wall of words but I CAN rip your ass apart on this argument. You want to tell ME about the Middle East? I got more time in the Middle East than you have reading and cutting and pasting about it.

Up next: Rev lectures CSM, NamVet and Aboutime on Vietnam. :laugh: