UK Gun Laws

[Nonnie]

This is the UK situation with gun law -

As Britain's gun ownership system is criticised by inspectors, here are the key questions answered on the rules which apply in England, Scotland (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scotland/) and Wales.
:: Can anyone own a gun?
In principle, yes they can. But you have to have a licence to own a gun and you have to comply with certain regulations in order to get a licence.
:: So how do I get a licence?
You would need to apply to your local police force asking for either a Firearms Certificate or a Shotgun Certificate.
:: What's the difference?
A Firearms Certificate (FAC) is for a rifle, certain pistols with overly long barrels, air rifles with a power of more than 12 foot pounds (12ft lbs) or a shotgun with a magazine capacity of three or more cartridges.
A Shotgun Certificate (SGC) does what it says on the tin. It is for a smooth bore gun that does not have a magazine or a non-detachable magazine that holds no more than two cartridges, with a barrel not less than 24" (60.96cm) and a bore less than 2" (5.08cm).
:: What about air rifles?
Any adult can own an air rifle provided it does not exceed a power output of 12ft lbs which is the amount of energy needed to propel a pound in weight 12 feet into the air. Anything of 12ft lbs or over is treated like a firearm.
:: So what happens after that?
You decide what licence is appropriate for you and apply. There are only two reasons you can have a gun. One is for shooting at targets, i.e. at a gun club, while the other is for hunting.
If you're looking to hunt (i.e. shooting animals) you have to have somewhere appropriate to shoot - either you own the land or you have the owner's permission to shoot there.
It has to be land that's suitable for shooting, so it has to be safe so you do not present a danger to the public.
If it's your first application, you will need a firearms police expert to come and inspect the land to ensure it fits the criteria - your back garden, for instance, unless it's a particularly large expanse, is unlikely to be considered suitable.
:: Once I've got the licence and the gun, can I keep it at home?
Yes, but the gun has to be under lock and key, in a cabinet attached to a wall - again the police will come to inspect.
You also need somewhere separate to keep the ammunition, although this could be a mini locker inside your gun cabinet.
:: Are there any reasons why I can't have a licence?
There may be physical or mental health reasons why you will be refused a gun licence.
You have to disclose them on your application form and it is an offence not to reveal relevant information.
If you've been given a suspended sentence for a minimum of three months or more, you cannot hold a firearm for five years after being sentenced.
If you have been in prison for three years or more, you are forever banned from having a licence.
:: And, finally, can I have a gun purely to defend myself?
No, never.



How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!

[Perianne]

This is the UK situation with gun law -

As Britain's gun ownership system is criticised by inspectors, here are the key questions answered on the rules which apply in England, Scotland (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scotland/) and Wales.
:: Can anyone own a gun?
In principle, yes they can. But you have to have a licence to own a gun and you have to comply with certain regulations in order to get a licence.
:: So how do I get a licence?
You would need to apply to your local police force asking for either a Firearms Certificate or a Shotgun Certificate.
:: What's the difference?
A Firearms Certificate (FAC) is for a rifle, certain pistols with overly long barrels, air rifles with a power of more than 12 foot pounds (12ft lbs) or a shotgun with a magazine capacity of three or more cartridges.
A Shotgun Certificate (SGC) does what it says on the tin. It is for a smooth bore gun that does not have a magazine or a non-detachable magazine that holds no more than two cartridges, with a barrel not less than 24" (60.96cm) and a bore less than 2" (5.08cm).
:: What about air rifles?
Any adult can own an air rifle provided it does not exceed a power output of 12ft lbs which is the amount of energy needed to propel a pound in weight 12 feet into the air. Anything of 12ft lbs or over is treated like a firearm.
:: So what happens after that?
You decide what licence is appropriate for you and apply. There are only two reasons you can have a gun. One is for shooting at targets, i.e. at a gun club, while the other is for hunting.
If you're looking to hunt (i.e. shooting animals) you have to have somewhere appropriate to shoot - either you own the land or you have the owner's permission to shoot there.
It has to be land that's suitable for shooting, so it has to be safe so you do not present a danger to the public.
If it's your first application, you will need a firearms police expert to come and inspect the land to ensure it fits the criteria - your back garden, for instance, unless it's a particularly large expanse, is unlikely to be considered suitable.
:: Once I've got the licence and the gun, can I keep it at home?
Yes, but the gun has to be under lock and key, in a cabinet attached to a wall - again the police will come to inspect.
You also need somewhere separate to keep the ammunition, although this could be a mini locker inside your gun cabinet.
:: Are there any reasons why I can't have a licence?
There may be physical or mental health reasons why you will be refused a gun licence.
You have to disclose them on your application form and it is an offence not to reveal relevant information.
If you've been given a suspended sentence for a minimum of three months or more, you cannot hold a firearm for five years after being sentenced.
If you have been in prison for three years or more, you are forever banned from having a licence.
:: And, finally, can I have a gun purely to defend myself?
No, never.



How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!


I suppose that is why my thread on the other forum went over like a lead zeppelin.

[Nonnie]

I suppose that is why my thread on the other forum went over like a lead zeppelin.

With an air rifle, when not in use, you have to place a lock through the trigger part when not in use. The pellet is not allowed to leave the area where you have permission to fire it. If you are caught walking across private land with an air rifle without permission, it's a criminal offence, regardless if you have pellets on you or not.

And the inspectors are still not happy!!

[Drummond]

There are only two reasons you can have a gun. One is for shooting at targets, i.e. at a gun club, while the other is for hunting.

Folks, you can see why there are such differences between British and American culture. The above 'reasons' which permit a Brit to legally own a gun, are far removed from the American 'right to defence' argument .. which simply doesn't come within the range of reasons you are permitted to own one in Britain. The entire 'defend yourself with a gun' premise just does not exist in our culture.

Nonnie's piece, in any case, shows that within even these severely curtailed justifications, further restrictions apply, making it impossible for most to justify gun ownership.

But I found it appalling to see, on the Brit forum which Perianne spent a very brief time posting to, just how intolerant they were, there, to ideas not their own. Judgementality was rife, and it was all based on the narrow perceptions the British hold as to what can and should be seen to be 'right'.

I've said, and will always maintain, that the English 2011 riots, which spread across much of that country and persisted for the better part of a week, could've been stopped in their tracks if ONLY shopkeepers, etc had been empowered to defend themselves and their property. But, they weren't, and we saw where that led.

Ridiculously, Brits look at reports of American shootings, the reaction is to do a lot of 'tut-tutting', then the gun control debate begins again (for a little while). Always, the talk is one of 'are our laws tough ENOUGH'. And, why don't Americans toughen up their own laws ?

I don't recall any British commentator ever covering an Obama pronouncement on tougher gun laws with a critical approach to it. If views are expressed, it's always to sympathise with Obama.

[Drummond]

I suppose that is why my thread on the other forum went over like a lead zeppelin.

I would say so ! But I think that a little more than that was at work. It's obvious that the forum has its share of Lefties. What you offered was a fresh perspective, and one cutting right across anything they could possibly tolerate. Shock, horror .. what if anyone actually reacted to you by thinking you were making good sense ??

That would never do. So, with all that at work, you had to be countered. A certain status quo long-since foisted upon us had to be defended from any 'foreign' ideas that might intrude on it.

[Perianne]

I would say so ! But I think that a little more than that was at work. It's obvious that the forum has its share of Lefties. What you offered was a fresh perspective, and one cutting right across anything they could possibly tolerate. Shock, horror .. what if anyone actually reacted to you by thinking you were making good sense ??

That would never do. So, with all that at work, you had to be countered. A certain status quo long-since foisted upon us had to be defended from any 'foreign' ideas that might intrude on it.

I sorta picked up on the thinking that I was there to get them to change their minds, to subterfuge.

Overall, it was a good experience for me. I learned something about how Brits view gun ownership. I am sure that courtesy of the BBC they only think of American as the wild west, where everyone shoots everyone over any dispute. And it IS sorta that way in the inner cities with the dark young men.

[Drummond]

I sorta picked up on the thinking that I was there to get them to change their minds, to subterfuge.

Overall, it was a good experience for me. I learned something about how Brits view gun ownership. I am sure that courtesy of the BBC they only think of American as the wild west, where everyone shoots everyone over any dispute. And it IS sorta that way in the inner cities with the dark young men.

That's another aspect of what's not understood - the persisting depth of bad race relations, the inherent violence it suggests may be brimming beneath the surface. That's not to say that we don't have a form of equivalent in certain areas .. Brixton in London, for example, or Tottenham ... but, political correctness imperatives have such a hold on us, and have had, for so very long, that it just doesn't surface in our conscious minds in the same way.

[Perianne]

That's another aspect of what's not understood - the persisting depth of bad race relations, the inherent violence it suggests may be brimming beneath the surface. That's not to say that we don't have a form of equivalent in certain areas .. Brixton in London, for example, or Tottenham ... but, political correctness imperatives have such a hold on us, and have had, for so very long, that it just doesn't surface in our conscious minds in the same way.

Very wise, sir. I have seen it over and over and over here in America. And the people are are under its hold are not even aware of it.

[Elessar]

This is the UK situation with gun law -
How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!

That is too restrictive and intrusive..

King George might be happy with it.

[Drummond]

That is too restrictive and intrusive..

King George might be happy with it.

.... and, it creates a dependency culture, of course, since it means that you have to look to the authorities for your very 'right' to self defence.

Little wonder that the Left will work hard to maintain the status quo.

[darin]

Here is the rub.

I generally believe brits to be more level-headed and responsible and informed than 'muricans. I can't back that up with proof.

Yet Brits do not trust themselves with gun ownership. I really wonder why Brits feel by-and-large they are incapible of handling the responsibility. What gives? Too many years under imperial control and folks have no self-esteem or wits about them? My AR15 has sat in the top shelf of my closet for three years and hasn't killed anyone. It sits there beside several loaded 30-round mags, few thousand rounds, and a 100 round drum magazine. Above my cooking area in the kitchen, about 7 1/2 feet high from the floor, rests a Glock 9mm, loaded with hollowpoints. It's been there two years just chillin'. Probably enjoying the wonderful smells because I'm a fantastic cook. Hasn't harmed a soul. And so-on with other weapons i own.

I really will NEVER understand how people give control of their freedom over to their respective govts. I will never understand the willfully nuetered.

I know the popularity of the Hunger Games books because Panem is REAL. It's real in the hearts of those who WANT to be lead by totalitarian governments. Our governments are moving, if inching, closer to that model. The last hope for true freedom is an armed populace. See, people do NOT want responsibility for their provisions. People want to lash out and blame because people lack the self-esteem to face the facts they are, by and large, nitwits and incapable. When 'the system' fails them, it's Not THEIR fault!!

So - people elect folks who blatantly lie (such lies are: Speed kills, Gun-culture, Rape-culture, Tolerance, etc, ad nauseam) and promise them "free" shit.

People believe BULLSHIT like:

"Oh! We will KEEP YOU SAFE by removing the best form of protection from violence! When seconds count, our Police are merely minutes away!"

Bullshit. Police have NO duty to risk their lives to protect citizens. Police have NO way to prevent ANY crime; merely to respond to one in progress or one completed.

"Oh! We will KEEP YOU SAFE by removing your ability to decide the safest way to operate the vehicle YOU maintain! We will impose revenue-generating limits on your travel AND....AND we will decide if your vehicle is safe! After all, can't have steering columns falling through the floor and possibly hurting others, now can we! If these measures SAVE EVEN ONE LIFE they are worth it!!"

Bullshit. Speed doesn't kill. Piss-poor decision-making while driving kills, regardless of speed - which is one of probably ten dozen OTHER and more significant factors in crashes. And the inspection bullshit - look, if people drive pieces of crap and those cars malfunction let the operator pay the consequence. And I cannot recall ONE major accident, EVER where it was purely mechanical failure of a car that caused or significantly caused a disaster. Moreover, even thinking of the one or ten? Actual cases where Toyotas years ago ran full throttle - no government-mandated inspection would have found and precluded it (keeping in mind probably 95% were operator error - maybe even 100 percent as folks didn't simply shut the car off, shift it out of gear or apply the brakes full-force).

There isn't much hope left folks. Dangerous Liberty trumps safe slavery - at least in the minds of the pure; the truly free.

[darin]

Oh! And GREAT thread, Nonnie! Makes me pause and say a prayer of thanks for my nation's forefathers.

[Gunny]

This is the UK situation with gun law -

As Britain's gun ownership system is criticised by inspectors, here are the key questions answered on the rules which apply in England, Scotland (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scotland/) and Wales.
:: Can anyone own a gun?
In principle, yes they can. But you have to have a licence to own a gun and you have to comply with certain regulations in order to get a licence.
:: So how do I get a licence?
You would need to apply to your local police force asking for either a Firearms Certificate or a Shotgun Certificate.
:: What's the difference?
A Firearms Certificate (FAC) is for a rifle, certain pistols with overly long barrels, air rifles with a power of more than 12 foot pounds (12ft lbs) or a shotgun with a magazine capacity of three or more cartridges.
A Shotgun Certificate (SGC) does what it says on the tin. It is for a smooth bore gun that does not have a magazine or a non-detachable magazine that holds no more than two cartridges, with a barrel not less than 24" (60.96cm) and a bore less than 2" (5.08cm).
:: What about air rifles?
Any adult can own an air rifle provided it does not exceed a power output of 12ft lbs which is the amount of energy needed to propel a pound in weight 12 feet into the air. Anything of 12ft lbs or over is treated like a firearm.
:: So what happens after that?
You decide what licence is appropriate for you and apply. There are only two reasons you can have a gun. One is for shooting at targets, i.e. at a gun club, while the other is for hunting.
If you're looking to hunt (i.e. shooting animals) you have to have somewhere appropriate to shoot - either you own the land or you have the owner's permission to shoot there.
It has to be land that's suitable for shooting, so it has to be safe so you do not present a danger to the public.
If it's your first application, you will need a firearms police expert to come and inspect the land to ensure it fits the criteria - your back garden, for instance, unless it's a particularly large expanse, is unlikely to be considered suitable.
:: Once I've got the licence and the gun, can I keep it at home?
Yes, but the gun has to be under lock and key, in a cabinet attached to a wall - again the police will come to inspect.
You also need somewhere separate to keep the ammunition, although this could be a mini locker inside your gun cabinet.
:: Are there any reasons why I can't have a licence?
There may be physical or mental health reasons why you will be refused a gun licence.
You have to disclose them on your application form and it is an offence not to reveal relevant information.
If you've been given a suspended sentence for a minimum of three months or more, you cannot hold a firearm for five years after being sentenced.
If you have been in prison for three years or more, you are forever banned from having a licence.
:: And, finally, can I have a gun purely to defend myself?
No, never.



How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!

Sounds like living in Illinois. Their way of skirting the 2nd Amendment is since they can't make you register a firearm, they require the OWNER to be registered.

[Voted4Reagan]

I can kill a person with:

A Motor Vehicle
A Knife
A Club
A Cricket Bat
A piece of Iron Pipe
A frozen Leg of Lamb
A Rock
A pair of Scissors
A toothbrush
A coil of rope
A rolling pin

I dont need a gun to kill someone....

But I do need one to protect myself from the people that would use any of the above..

[Gunny]

I can kill a person with:

A Motor Vehicle
A Knife
A Club
A Cricket Bat
A piece of Iron Pipe
A frozen Leg of Lamb
A Rock
A pair of Scissors
A toothbrush
A coil of rope
A rolling pin

I dont need a gun to kill someone....

But I do need one to protect myself from the people that would use any of the above..

I used to laugh at some of this crap as a commercial electrician. I carried a whole pouch full of weapons. :laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

I used to laugh at some of this crap as a commercial electrician. I carried a whole pouch full of weapons. :laugh:

WE NEED SCREWDRIVER OWNERSHIP LAWS!!!!! lol :lol::lol::lol:

[Gunny]

WE NEED SCREWDRIVER OWNERSHIP LAWS!!!!! lol :lol::lol::lol:

Yeah. Don't forget the sheetrock saw. Oh, and the Sharpie we use to mark conduit. :laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-w_o6ydhrpAM/UST7M2G7_sI/AAAAAAAAzp0/HrVTvJrLpm0/make-heroine-meth-illegal_thumb1.jpg?imgmax=800

[Nonnie]

Thanks guys, I know the topic surrounding guns is like chalk and cheese between America and the UK, but, if you have the right to defend yourself with a gun, when was the last time you defended yourself with a gun? If they've sat in a cupboard under a blanket for umpteen years not used, why keep a gun?

[Gunny]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-w_o6ydhrpAM/UST7M2G7_sI/AAAAAAAAzp0/HrVTvJrLpm0/make-heroine-meth-illegal_thumb1.jpg?imgmax=800

LMAO. No shit.

[Nonnie]

Transgression slightly. I sent my 14 year old son into the supermarket to buy some plastic picnic cutlery. He came out empty handed because he's too young. You could slash your arm with a plastic picnic knife for 15 years and still not cause a scratch. He can't buy alcohol, party poppers, a razor to shave with, matches etc...

He can grab a beer from my fridge, pick up an 8" kitchen knife, use matches to light a fire in the fireplace and enjoy a Christmas by banging a few party poppers that don't have enough explosive power to knock the skin off a rice pudding.

Do you have stupid laws like this as well?

[Nonnie]

LMAO. No shit.

Would you like to legalise hard drugs?

[Black Diamond]

Would you like to legalise hard drugs?

Just the soft ones.

[Gunny]

Would you like to legalise hard drugs?

Legalize them? Not sure where you're going with this. If there is one theme you can take away from my posts, I'm about personal responsibility. I don't care if you kill yourself. Your choice. I care if it costs the rest of us. So. there are a whole bunch of problems with this question. Let's start with the money.

We've spent BILLIONS in our "war on drugs" and the best I can see is it's been wasted. Addicts are addicts. They're getting their stuff, period. And as long as there is a need, the supplier has business. It's the same as hiring illegals. You can't cut off just the tail and expect everything else to die. Used to be, you busted the dealer, not the user. BUt they bust the users now. Why? Money. After you get busted, pay for bail, pay your court costs, they send you to a class that costs you MORE money. And they do this to people that can't even afford their addictions, much less all that state-sponsored graft. The people that need help the most just get fined up the butt and no help.

In an equal world, I could care less. But we don't live in an equal world.

[tailfins]

This is the UK situation with gun law -

As Britain's gun ownership system is criticised by inspectors, here are the key questions answered on the rules which apply in England, Scotland (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scotland/) and Wales.

I noticed that Northern Ireland is curiously missing from the above list.

[DLT]

Thanks guys, I know the topic surrounding guns is like chalk and cheese between America and the UK, but, if you have the right to defend yourself with a gun, when was the last time you defended yourself with a gun? If they've sat in a cupboard under a blanket for umpteen years not used, why keep a gun?

Very good question. Here's my answer.

For protection.

Case in point: In my younger days, I once got mad at my husband while we were out drinking with friends. I left the bar, on foot mind you, at night, and walked back to where my car was (he had picked me up after work from another joint on Richmond that he liked).

Anyway....on the way back to my car, which was several city blocks (in heels)....a car full of males drove up, slowed down and proceeded to verbally harass me...saying things like "come on, get in the car". At one point the car stopped and one of the guys started to get out of the car. Feeling menaced, I reached into my bag (that's all I had to do) and put my hand on my cute little 25. It looked something like this....

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/05/17/1633043_01_25_cal_raven_arms_pistol_pearl_640.jpg

Small but still....protection.

Anyway....the guys suddenly decided that they didn't want to play any more and drove off. Result? No physical confrontation of any kind. And just the knowledge of having that gun (I have carried one since I was in my early 20s)....has no doubt warded off many other would-be muggers/attackers. It's the attitude you have that says..."don't mess with me" vs. the "I'm weak and easy pickins, come and get me".

Also, I drove a Trans Am for over a decade that broke down (it was a lemon) in every possible spot in Houston, and even twice in the same spots...lol. As an attractive (in my younger days) female.... broken down on the street or highway...supposedly helpless....it's the perfect victim scenario...

if not for that gun and the attitude that just having it gives you.

I now live in an area that has been Obama-ized and approximately half or more of the residents are blacks. So the crime rate (home burglaries and break-ins) has gone up, to put it mildly. And an elderly woman two houses down was mugged/robbed pulling into her garage, in fact.

So yeah.... I'll keep my protection. You're damned straight I will.....as our "illustrious leaders" continue to make things more and more unsafe for law-abiding citizens via their leftist policies.

[jimnyc]

:: And, finally, can I have a gun purely to defend myself?
No, never.



How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!

What if a couple of Muslim guys come near your home and try to chop off your head with a machete? You have to find a knife as well to defend yourself? Or find the car keys so you can run the bastards over?

It's bad enough that here in the US we have to worry about someone figuring out a way to get in a dirty bomb or nuke or similar. But shit, over there some need to be worried that someone simply doesn't smuggle in a gun!

[darin]

Thanks guys, I know the topic surrounding guns is like chalk and cheese between America and the UK, but, if you have the right to defend yourself with a gun, when was the last time you defended yourself with a gun? If they've sat in a cupboard under a blanket for umpteen years not used, why keep a gun?

That's a logical fallacy. The question isn't logical.

Should I indulge?

Hrm...I haven't used my 'junk' to procreate for 14 years. I should go-ahead and castrate myself eh? Just sayin...


The point of gun ownership is three-fold:

1) Because a well-armed populace reduces crime
2) protects the fundamentals of liberty
3) Because i'm a grown-ass MAN who can decide what's best for myself and my family

:)

[Voted4Reagan]

I noticed that Northern Ireland is curiously missing from the above list.

Northern Ireland's and the Republic of Ireland's Gun Laws are among the toughest in Europe. The North tends to follow the Gun laws in the South.. They are tougher than those in Great Britain, Scotland and Wales.

With the Disarming of the RUC and The IRA prior to the Easter Accords of 1998, Firearms deaths dropped but have since been rising as criminals get illegal handguns from other sources.

In Ireland you can't possess a Handgun that uses center-fire ammunition. You are limited to .22 short Rimfire.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cp/ireland

[jimnyc]

Thanks guys, I know the topic surrounding guns is like chalk and cheese between America and the UK, but, if you have the right to defend yourself with a gun, when was the last time you defended yourself with a gun? If they've sat in a cupboard under a blanket for umpteen years not used, why keep a gun?

I've defended my house with a gun for the past 16 years minimum. We are safe. We have a sign up that we are protected as such. Bastards will think 2x before coming into a house that advertises that they will shoot a scumbag that tries to burglarize or harm their family. Peace of mind, security - when you have a family it's worth MILLIONS. I would be scared to death if I had to safeguard my family with a steak knife.

[Drummond]

Here is the rub.

I generally believe brits to be more level-headed and responsible and informed than 'muricans. I can't back that up with proof.

Yet Brits do not trust themselves with gun ownership. I really wonder why Brits feel by-and-large they are incapible of handling the responsibility.

Some great points in your post, DMP, and thanks .. I agree with a great deal of it. But, I've singled out the point which I think I should disagree with.

What I think you're reflecting, without knowing it, is the great psychological differences involved. Most of us don't own guns because we've never considered it, because guns just aren't 'out there' for us to consider buying. But more, our society would consider carrying guns almost to be an alien concept. I'm far from young, but I've lived my life never once encountering anyone, ever, from the UK who owned one.

The one time I did find someone who owned a gun, as it happens, lived in Germany, and the only reason he had his gun was as a WWII souvenir, from his Third Reich army days. Otherwise I've literally (knowingly) never met a gun owner in my life.

'Trusting ourselves with gun ownership' isn't a factor. They're just not a part of our lives.

The British get reports of shootings in America, maybe a shootout at a school, or whatever, and I think the reaction is one of a lack of comprehension of why the gun was freely available enough to the shooter in the first place. But more, the overall reaction would be that America earns those situations just because guns are available. Putting it bluntly, they struggle to see it as a mark of a civilised country, that such freedoms to own firearms can exist.

We have NO enshrined right to carry guns, as you have (the very concept doesn't exist here). We have no Constitution that governs such freedoms at all.

And that is the big difference. Many generations of Socialist influence ensure that any move towards even considering gun ownership here will never happen. Those who preached otherwise, in the UK, would be thought of as 'gun nuts', needing professional help ... .

[darin]

Some great points in your post, DMP, and thanks .. I agree with a great deal of it. But, I've singled out the point which I think I should disagree with.

What I think you're reflecting, without knowing it, is the great psychological differences involved. Most of us don't own guns because we've never considered it, because guns just aren't 'out there' for us to consider buying. But more, our society would consider carrying guns almost to be an alien concept. I'm far from young, but I've lived my life never once encountering anyone, ever, from the UK who owned one.

The one time I did find someone who owned a gun, as it happens, lived in Germany, and the only reason he had his gun was as a WWII souvenir, from his Third Reich army days. Otherwise I've literally (knowingly) never met a gun owner in my life.

'Trusting ourselves with gun ownership' isn't a factor. They're just not a part of our lives.

The British get reports of shootings in America, maybe a shootout at a school, or whatever, and I think the reaction is one of a lack of comprehension of why the gun was freely available enough to the shooter in the first place. But more, the overall reaction would be that America earns those situations just because guns are available. Putting it bluntly, they struggle to see it as a mark of a civilised country, that such freedoms to own firearms can exist.

We have NO enshrined right to carry guns, as you have (the very concept doesn't exist here). We have no Constitution that governs such freedoms at all.

And that is the big difference. Many generations of Socialist influence ensure that any move towards even considering gun ownership here will never happen. Those who preached otherwise, in the UK, would be thought of as 'gun nuts', needing professional help ... .


I really appreciate that D - I guess what I should have written was 'What they're doing is tantamount to expressed distrust of themselves - as a society'. See what I mean?

Look, honestly, if LIVES were what mattered every country would outlaw cars. Because "cars" (its not really the car's fault, it's the driver's fault because probably nobody dies per year (statistically) from a car mechanical failure) kill more people than perhaps all the guns ever created in all time. hell, I bet Arrows are respsonsible for more deaths than guns if we go back far enough.

Does that make sense? I sure don't want to insult you. Your last line is telling, and very depressing. :(

[Perianne]

I've defended my house with a gun for the past 16 years minimum. We are safe. We have a sign up that we are protected as such. Bastards will think 2x before coming into a house that advertises that they will shoot a scumbag that tries to burglarize or harm their family. Peace of mind, security - when you have a family it's worth MILLIONS. I would be scared to death if I had to safeguard my family with a steak knife.

http://decalpitstop.com/ca/trespasserswillbeshotsurvivors1.jpg

[Noir]

I've said, and will always maintain, that the English 2011 riots, which spread across much of that country and persisted for the better part of a week, could've been stopped in their tracks if ONLY shopkeepers, etc had been empowered to defend themselves and their property. But, they weren't, and we saw where that led.

Such truth, I can only imagine that if a riot were to take place in a U.S. City it'd be over before the evening news, ain't that so Drummond?

[indago]

We have NO enshrined right to carry guns, as you have (the very concept doesn't exist here). We have no Constitution that governs such freedoms at all.

You could say that we "Keep and Bear Arms" BECAUSE of the British...

[jimnyc]

Such truth, I can only imagine that if a riot were to take place in a U.S. City it'd be over before the evening news, ain't that so Drummond?

When you see riots, and people getting assaulted, and businesses being destryoyed and burned down - that's happening to folks and shops where there is no one armed. I can post many videos of folks IN their businesses, guarding with rifles and hand guns during the riots - and surprisingly no harm or destruction comes to the inside of their business.

[Drummond]

You could say that we "Keep and Bear Arms" BECAUSE of the British...

Such wisdom .... :laugh:

[Drummond]

http://decalpitstop.com/ca/trespasserswillbeshotsurvivors1.jpg

This is JUST what a certain Brit forum badly needs to see .... :rolleyes::laugh::laugh:

[Perianne]

This is JUST what a certain Brit forum badly needs to see .... :rolleyes::laugh::laugh:

You can post it there. Tell them it is a gift from Perianne. They might remember me. :)

[Drummond]

I really appreciate that D - I guess what I should have written was 'What they're doing is tantamount to expressed distrust of themselves - as a society'. See what I mean?

Look, honestly, if LIVES were what mattered every country would outlaw cars. Because "cars" (its not really the car's fault, it's the driver's fault because probably nobody dies per year (statistically) from a car mechanical failure) kill more people than perhaps all the guns ever created in all time. hell, I bet Arrows are respsonsible for more deaths than guns if we go back far enough.

Does that make sense? I sure don't want to insult you. Your last line is telling, and very depressing. :(

DMP, I agree ! I see things your way.

Talking of cars, though, don't imagine we don't have laws about them, too. I'm genuinely asking ... do you have seat belt laws ? Do you have any laws against mobile phone usage in them ?

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law


It’s illegal to ride a motorcycle or drive using hand-held phones or similar devices. The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic.

It’s also illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device when supervising a learner driver or rider.

You can get an automatic fixed penalty notice if you’re caught using a hand-held phone while driving or riding. You’ll get 3 penalty points on your licence and a fine of £100.

Your case could also go to court and you could be disqualified from driving or riding and get a maximum fine of £1,000. Drivers of buses or goods vehicles could get a maximum fine of £2,500.

As for carrying knives in public ...

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm


It is illegal to carry any sharp or bladed instrument in a public place (with the exception of a folding pocket knife, which has a blade that is less than 7.62 cm (3 inches)).

A lock knife is not a folding pocket knife and therefore it is illegal to carry around such a knife regardless of the length of the blade (if you do not have reasonable excuse). A lock knife means a knife which is similar to a folding knife, in that there is a spring holding the blade closed. However, a lock knife has a mechanism which locks the blade in position when fully extended, the blade cannot be closed without that mechanism being released. A lock knife is not an offensive weapon per se (because these knives were made with a specific purpose in mind and not as a weapon). However, possession of a lock knife in a public place without reasonable excuse is an offence.

Possession of a multi-tool incorporating a prohibited blade/pointed article is capable of being an offence under this section even if there are other tools on the instrument which may be of use to a person in a public place (screwdriver, can opener).

The ban is not total, it is for the person in possession of such an instrument to prove on the balance of probabilities that he/she had good reason for its possession. It will have to be genuine, for example, someone back packing across the Lake District may reasonably be expected to have a knife for the preparation of meals. It will be far more difficult to justify on the streets of a city or town, but there will be occasions when someone is genuinely going to a martial arts sport or scout meeting (which is easily checked).

The penalty for committing this offence is a maximum prison sentence of four years.

Laws against breathing in a public place, are as follows :rolleyes: ..........

[darin]

http://decalpitstop.com/ca/trespasserswillbeshotsurvivors1.jpg

For me? I'd never shoot anyone unless I had to. Tresspass. hell, break in. Whatever - I have NO desire to shoot anyone. I think MOST gun owners feel like me.

[Drummond]

For me? I'd never shoot anyone unless I had to. Tresspass. hell, break in. Whatever - I have NO desire to shoot anyone. I think MOST gun owners feel like me.

We actually had a case, some years ago, of a British man who felt differently. He owned a shotgun (he did not have a gun licence for it). He defended his farmhouse against two burglars ... and shot and killed one of them. It all became a very nasty business, dragging on for years. See .....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3087003.stm


Following Tony Martin's release from custody, BBC News Online looks back at events since 16-year-old Fred Barras was killed at Martin's isolated farmhouse.

20 August 1999: Fred Barras, 16, suffers fatal gunshot wounds near Tony Martin's isolated Victorian farmhouse, Bleak House, in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk.

His friend, 29-year-old Brendan Fearon, is taken to hospital in King's Lynn with gunshot wounds to his legs.

23 August 1999: Martin, 54, is charged with murdering Mr Barras and wounding Fearon with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

24 August 1999: Martin is remanded in custody at King's Lynn Magistrates Court.

7 September 1999: Judge David Mellor rules Mr Martin should be freed on conditional bail at a 30-minute hearing behind closed doors at Norwich Crown Court.

9 September 1999: Hundreds of mourners congregate for Fred Barras's funeral at St Mary Magdalene Church in the centre of Newark, Nottinghamshire.

Mr Martin has his bail revoked and is returned to Norwich prison for his own protection.

10 January 2000: Fearon and Darren Bark, 33, both from Newark, Nottinghamshire, admit conspiring to burgle Bleak House, accompanied by Fred Barras.

At Norwich Crown Court Fearon is jailed for three years for conspiracy to burgle, Bark is sentenced to 30 months.

10 April 2000: At Norwich Crown Court, Martin denies murdering the teenager and attempting to murder Fearon, wounding Fearon with intent to cause injury and possessing a Winchester pump-action shotgun with intent to endanger life. He admits not having a firearms licence.

14 April 2000: Norwich Crown Court hears that Martin is taken to a secret address under police protection after death threats are made against him and reports of a £60,000 price tag on his life emerge.

19 April 2000: Martin is jailed for life for the murder of Fred Barras, with 10 years to run concurrently for the wounding offence and a further 12 months for possession of an illegal firearm.

20 April 2000: Martin's solicitor, Nick Makin, pledges to appeal against his client's conviction.
Martin's legal team say a female juror has reportedly called an independent Norfolk radio station claiming they received threats during the trial.

21 April 2000: The independent Broadlands 102 FM radio station in Norwich insists the woman who contacted the station did not mention being threatened.
Tony Jones, the uncle of Mr Barras, denies anybody connected to the teenager's family made any attempt to intimidate jurors.

25 April 2000: Officials at Norwich Crown Court decide not to launch an inquiry into the allegations of jury intimidation during the trial.

After several hours of discussions, they conclude there is no hard evidence to back up the claims, in the absence of any formal complaints to police.

26 April 2000: The family of one of the jurors tells the BBC members of the jury believed they were being stared at by people in the public gallery and felt afraid leaving the court.

Martin's legal team say they will pursue the claims to the Court of Appeal in an attempt to get their client's murder conviction quashed.

28 April 2000: Martin's lawyers fax a notice of appeal against his conviction for murder to the Court of Appeal in London.

19 June 2000: The appeal begins. Three Court of Appeal judges rule that police can take the unusual step of submitting written questions to the jurors in the trial over whether they were intimidated.

27 July 2000: Mr Justice Curtis grants permission for Martin to appeal against his conviction for unlawful wounding but against the murder charge.

6 August 2000: It emerges that Fred Barras's family is to seek compensation for his death.

14 August 2000: Martin announces he intends to replace his solicitor and barrister with a new legal team.

29 August 2000: Martin launches a new appeal against his murder conviction, claiming that he was not properly represented at his trial.

15 October 2000: Martin's supporters appeal for funds to help him fight his murder conviction.

10 August 2001: Fearon is freed from prison following a parole board hearing.

15 October 2001: Michael Wolkind, QC, who heads Mr Martin's new legal team, tells the Court of Appeal that his trial lawyers had not presented Mr Martin's own account of what happened.

He said there was "compelling" evidence to show that the farmer acted in self-defence and under provocation or diminished responsibility.

17 October 2001: Lord Chief Justice Lord Woolf - sitting with Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Grigson - reserves judgement on Mr Martin's appeal to a later date and says their decision would be given "as soon as possible".

30 October 2001: Martin's murder conviction reduced to manslaughter, and his 10-year sentence for wounding Fearon is cut to three years, to run concurrently.

29 June 2002: Burglar Fearon announces he is to sue Martin for £50,000.

27 September 2002: Charlton Heston, former actor and president of the US National Rifle Association, gives his support to Martin.

16 January 2003: Martin's bid to be released early on parole is rejected.

15 April 2003: Fearon's bid to sue Martin is rejected by judges.

13 June 2003: On appeal Fearon wins the right to sue Martin.

24 July 2003: Martin moved from Highpoint Prison in Suffolk to a secret location.

25 July 2003: Fearon released from prison early after being jailed for drug dealing.

26 July 2003: Home Secretary David Blunkett asks for the Prison Service to explain Fearon's early release.

28 July 2003: Martin released from custody

[Drummond]

You can post it there. Tell them it is a gift from Perianne. They might remember me. :)

Oh, I'm tempted ! :laugh::laugh::eek:;)

[Gunny]

Some great points in your post, DMP, and thanks .. I agree with a great deal of it. But, I've singled out the point which I think I should disagree with.

What I think you're reflecting, without knowing it, is the great psychological differences involved. Most of us don't own guns because we've never considered it, because guns just aren't 'out there' for us to consider buying. But more, our society would consider carrying guns almost to be an alien concept. I'm far from young, but I've lived my life never once encountering anyone, ever, from the UK who owned one.

The one time I did find someone who owned a gun, as it happens, lived in Germany, and the only reason he had his gun was as a WWII souvenir, from his Third Reich army days. Otherwise I've literally (knowingly) never met a gun owner in my life.

'Trusting ourselves with gun ownership' isn't a factor. They're just not a part of our lives.

The British get reports of shootings in America, maybe a shootout at a school, or whatever, and I think the reaction is one of a lack of comprehension of why the gun was freely available enough to the shooter in the first place. But more, the overall reaction would be that America earns those situations just because guns are available. Putting it bluntly, they struggle to see it as a mark of a civilised country, that such freedoms to own firearms can exist.

We have NO enshrined right to carry guns, as you have (the very concept doesn't exist here). We have no Constitution that governs such freedoms at all.

And that is the big difference. Many generations of Socialist influence ensure that any move towards even considering gun ownership here will never happen. Those who preached otherwise, in the UK, would be thought of as 'gun nuts', needing professional help ... .

The fallacy to your argument is you live on an island. It's a LOT easier to control importation of illegal crap, like guns. We, as we keep pointing out, have Central and South America attached to us. We can't even keep the illegal PEOPLE out.

[Drummond]

The fallacy to your argument is you live on an island. It's a LOT easier to control importation of illegal crap, like guns. We, as we keep pointing out, have Central and South America attached to us. We can't even keep the illegal PEOPLE out.

Point basically taken, though I'd also say that we have our Channel Tunnel to contend with. Only recently there was a case of one of the many migrants massed at Calais managing to not only get into the Tunnel, but to walk nearly the length of the tunnel. He didn't succeed, though he nearly did.

The massing of illegals at Calais, and formerly at Sangatte, is part of an ongoing problem. Some illegals DO manage to get through.

[tailfins]

Oh, I'm tempted ! :laugh::laugh::eek:;)

What if I posted about my support for bombing abortion clinics on that British forum?

[Drummond]

What if I posted about my support for bombing abortion clinics on that British forum?

The mind boggles ....... :laugh::laugh::rolleyes:

[Gunny]

Point basically taken, though I'd also say that we have our Channel Tunnel to contend with. Only recently there was a case of one of the many migrants massed at Calais managing to not only get into the Tunnel, but to walk nearly the length of the tunnel. He didn't succeed, though he nearly did.

The massing of illegals at Calais, and formerly at Sangatte, is part of an ongoing problem. Some illegals DO manage to get through.

"Some" illegals get through. You have a tunnel. We've got a floodgate. It's just a different way of thinking. We have firearms that come from former Soviet bloc countries that come through Central America by the truckload. One of the prices of a free society is the criminals are free to make a profit. We've got more Russian knock off weapons than Russia does. And we have a bunch gangbangers that provide the market.

There is no honor with these people. They think shooting someone makes them something. In my day, you went out on the playground, one on one. If anyone interfered, half the crowd would kick HIS butt. That's not how it is anymore. You got gangbangers, drug and the money from drugs, you got weapons. That's just how it is here now; especially in our inner cities. Everybody's too busy being a thug and "cool" and our media and Hollywood have glamorized it.

[Black Diamond]

Point basically taken, though I'd also say that we have our Channel Tunnel to contend with. Only recently there was a case of one of the many migrants massed at Calais managing to not only get into the Tunnel, but to walk nearly the length of the tunnel. He didn't succeed, though he nearly did.

The massing of illegals at Calais, and formerly at Sangatte, is part of an ongoing problem. Some illegals DO manage to get through.

Fucking frogs...

[Gunny]

Fucking frogs...

:laugh:

[Nonnie]

Very good question. Here's my answer.

For protection.

Case in point: In my younger days, I once got mad at my husband while we were out drinking with friends. I left the bar, on foot mind you, at night, and walked back to where my car was (he had picked me up after work from another joint on Richmond that he liked).

Anyway....on the way back to my car, which was several city blocks (in heels)....a car full of males drove up, slowed down and proceeded to verbally harass me...saying things like "come on, get in the car". At one point the car stopped and one of the guys started to get out of the car. Feeling menaced, I reached into my bag (that's all I had to do) and put my hand on my cute little 25. It looked something like this....



Small but still....protection.

Anyway....the guys suddenly decided that they didn't want to play any more and drove off. Result? No physical confrontation of any kind. And just the knowledge of having that gun (I have carried one since I was in my early 20s)....has no doubt warded off many other would-be muggers/attackers. It's the attitude you have that says..."don't mess with me" vs. the "I'm weak and easy pickins, come and get me".

Also, I drove a Trans Am for over a decade that broke down (it was a lemon) in every possible spot in Houston, and even twice in the same spots...lol. As an attractive (in my younger days) female.... broken down on the street or highway...supposedly helpless....it's the perfect victim scenario...

if not for that gun and the attitude that just having it gives you.

I now live in an area that has been Obama-ized and approximately half or more of the residents are blacks. So the crime rate (home burglaries and break-ins) has gone up, to put it mildly. And an elderly woman two houses down was mugged/robbed pulling into her garage, in fact.

So yeah.... I'll keep my protection. You're damned straight I will.....as our "illustrious leaders" continue to make things more and more unsafe for law-abiding citizens via their leftist policies.

In the UK, the victim gets mugged, raped and beat up. Then it goes to court, the mugger/rapist get's jailed for a couple of years and gets out in 1 for good behaviour. If his human rights are breached, he successfully sues the authorities.

Here, the offender tends to end up with more human rights.

[Nonnie]

That's a logical fallacy. The question isn't logical.

Should I indulge?

Hrm...I haven't used my 'junk' to procreate for 14 years. I should go-ahead and castrate myself eh? Just sayin...


The point of gun ownership is three-fold:

1) Because a well-armed populace reduces crime
2) protects the fundamentals of liberty
3) Because i'm a grown-ass MAN who can decide what's best for myself and my family

:)

So is America safe because of guns?

Or is it unsafe but you can defend yourself?

[Nonnie]

I've defended my house with a gun for the past 16 years minimum. We are safe. We have a sign up that we are protected as such. Bastards will think 2x before coming into a house that advertises that they will shoot a scumbag that tries to burglarize or harm their family. Peace of mind, security - when you have a family it's worth MILLIONS. I would be scared to death if I had to safeguard my family with a steak knife.

Don't move to the UK, you'll die of scared.

[Perianne]

So is America safe because of guns?

Or is it unsafe but you can defend yourself?

America is unsafe because we have a lot of bad people. And those people have guns. If no one had guns, the bad people would find ball bats, knives, or something else. Guns keep good people safe and keeps the bad people afraid of the people who DO have guns. The good people usually are very good marksmen while the bad people are not.

[Nonnie]

Some great points in your post, DMP, and thanks .. I agree with a great deal of it. But, I've singled out the point which I think I should disagree with.

What I think you're reflecting, without knowing it, is the great psychological differences involved. Most of us don't own guns because we've never considered it, because guns just aren't 'out there' for us to consider buying. But more, our society would consider carrying guns almost to be an alien concept. I'm far from young, but I've lived my life never once encountering anyone, ever, from the UK who owned one.

The one time I did find someone who owned a gun, as it happens, lived in Germany, and the only reason he had his gun was as a WWII souvenir, from his Third Reich army days. Otherwise I've literally (knowingly) never met a gun owner in my life.

'Trusting ourselves with gun ownership' isn't a factor. They're just not a part of our lives.

The British get reports of shootings in America, maybe a shootout at a school, or whatever, and I think the reaction is one of a lack of comprehension of why the gun was freely available enough to the shooter in the first place. But more, the overall reaction would be that America earns those situations just because guns are available. Putting it bluntly, they struggle to see it as a mark of a civilised country, that such freedoms to own firearms can exist.

We have NO enshrined right to carry guns, as you have (the very concept doesn't exist here). We have no Constitution that governs such freedoms at all.

And that is the big difference. Many generations of Socialist influence ensure that any move towards even considering gun ownership here will never happen. Those who preached otherwise, in the UK, would be thought of as 'gun nuts', needing professional help ... .

To be honest, your post pretty much sums up the issue.

[NightTrain]

Thanks guys, I know the topic surrounding guns is like chalk and cheese between America and the UK, but, if you have the right to defend yourself with a gun, when was the last time you defended yourself with a gun? If they've sat in a cupboard under a blanket for umpteen years not used, why keep a gun?


2 years ago. Not against a human, though.

[Perianne]

To be honest, your post pretty much sums up the issue.

Drummond has that skill.

[NightTrain]

I used to laugh at some of this crap as a commercial electrician. I carried a whole pouch full of weapons. :laugh:


Got pulled over a while back and the cop saw my tool bag in the back seat of the truck.

"Any weapons in there?"

"Well, probably all of them could be considered a weapon."

"Yeah? Anything in there that will cut me?"

"Yeah. They're tools. All of them, probably."

At that point he stopped asking stupid questions about a working man's tools that are designed to cut and strip armored cable.

[Perianne]

Got pulled over a while back and the cop saw my tool bag in the back seat of the truck.

"Any weapons in there?"

"Well, probably all of them could be considered a weapon."

"Yeah? Anything in there that will cut me?"

"Yeah. They're tools. All of them, probably."

At that point he stopped asking stupid questions about a working man's tools that are designed to cut and strip armored cable.

You should unbutton your top button, or pull up your skirt a bit. Cops don't seem to notice what else is around if you do that.

[NightTrain]

So is America safe because of guns?

Or is it unsafe but you can defend yourself?


That depends on where you are. No one is safe in the lawless ghetto areas, like in Detroit or Chicago or Los Angeles or Houston... places like that.

Where I live it's very safe, and almost everyone in Alaska is armed. A few years ago, we had a Preacher shoot two hoodlums that were burglarizing his church in Big Lake, about 15 miles from my house. The Preacher did the correct thing and his church hasn't been molested ever since.

[NightTrain]

You should unbutton your top button, or pull up your skirt a bit. Cops don't seem to notice what else is around if you do that.


I'll keep that in mind. Should I shave my chest and legs or just go au naturale?

I don't think Carhartt makes a skirt, though.



What you say is true, though... I watched my now-ex wife get out of every ticket she had coming, probably over 20. And, yeah, she did unbutton the top a bit to show cleavage and it worked every time.... men are such suckers. I can count on one hand how many warnings I got instead of a ticket.

[Gunny]

Got pulled over a while back and the cop saw my tool bag in the back seat of the truck.

"Any weapons in there?"

"Well, probably all of them could be considered a weapon."

"Yeah? Anything in there that will cut me?"

"Yeah. They're tools. All of them, probably."

At that point he stopped asking stupid questions about a working man's tools that are designed to cut and strip armored cable.

Been through THAT one. :laugh:

[Drummond]

Got pulled over a while back and the cop saw my tool bag in the back seat of the truck.

"Any weapons in there?"

"Well, probably all of them could be considered a weapon."

"Yeah? Anything in there that will cut me?"

"Yeah. They're tools. All of them, probably."

At that point he stopped asking stupid questions about a working man's tools that are designed to cut and strip armored cable.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Gunny]

I'll keep that in mind. Should I shave my chest and legs or just go au naturale?

I don't think Carhartt makes a skirt, though.



What you say is true, though... I watched my now-ex wife get out of every ticket she had coming, probably over 20. And, yeah, she did unbutton the top a bit to show cleavage and it worked every time.... men are such suckers. I can count on one hand how many warnings I got instead of a ticket.

It was hilarious had it not cost $200 for a speeding ticket.

Conversation:

What you got in that tool pouch and tool bag?

Tools?

What are you going to do with those? ANd you know my sarcastic ass mind is racing at this point. :laugh:

Go to work?

Who do you work for?

And HERE is where I kick into high gear ... I know it's a secret disguise but that patch over my left pocket that sats "W**** ELECTRIC" is a trick. I just wear ugly-ass blue n white pinstriped work shrts at 6:3- in the morning because I'm bored. :laugh:

[darin]

I'm safe in detroit. Cuz I'm a badass. :)

[Gunny]

I'm safe in detroit. Cuz I'm a badass. :)

Uh huh. More like it's been abandoned. You planning on the next remake of "Last Man on Earth"?

[Black Diamond]

Uh huh. More like it's been abandoned. You planning on the next remake of "Last Man on Earth"?
8 mile 2

[NightTrain]

I'm safe in detroit. Cuz I'm a badass. :)

I've seen pictures of your yard. That's not quite the area I was referring to, sucka! :laugh:

[Perianne]

I'll keep that in mind. Should I shave my chest and legs or just go au naturale?


I have never shaved my legs, but then again, I don't have to. Just peach fuzz there.

If you get a gay cop, he might like the hairy chest and legs. :)

[darin]

Uh huh. More like it's been abandoned. You planning on the next remake of "Last Man on Earth"?

Wish I had time...movin' on to MORE socialist pastures....

[NightTrain]

It was hilarious had it not cost $200 for a speeding ticket.

Conversation:

What you got in that tool pouch and tool bag?

Tools?

What are you going to do with those? ANd you know my sarcastic ass mind is racing at this point. :laugh:

Go to work?

Who do you work for?

And HERE is where I kick into high gear ... I know it's a secret disguise but that patch over my left pocket that sats "W**** ELECTRIC" is a trick. I just wear ugly-ass blue n white pinstriped work shrts at 6:3- in the morning because I'm bored. :laugh:


It would have been hard to resist telling him I wore the company shirt just to pick up chicks. Chicks dig electricians, roger.

I try real hard not to get lippy with a cop, though... even if he is being a dumbass. It's a loser, even if it is gratifying!

[NightTrain]

I have never shaved my legs, but then again, I don't have to. Just peach fuzz there.

If you get a gay cop, he might like the hairy chest and legs. :)


Ehhhh... I'll take the ticket. That kind of interaction gives me the heebie jeebies.

[Perianne]

Ehhhh... I'll take the ticket. That kind of interaction gives me the heebie jeebies.

Some gays are kinda cute. :)

[NightTrain]

Some gays are kinda cute. :)


Yeah, so the women say. I'll just take your word for it! :laugh:

[Nonnie]

I'll keep that in mind. Should I shave my chest and legs or just go au naturale?

I don't think Carhartt makes a skirt, though.



What you say is true, though... I watched my now-ex wife get out of every ticket she had coming, probably over 20. And, yeah, she did unbutton the top a bit to show cleavage and it worked every time.... men are such suckers. I can count on one hand how many warnings I got instead of a ticket.

Nah, go for a Brazilian.

[Gunny]

It would have been hard to resist telling him I wore the company shirt just to pick up chicks. Chicks dig electricians, roger.

I try real hard not to get lippy with a cop, though... even if he is being a dumbass. It's a loser, even if it is gratifying!

Right? Especially at 6:30 AM. Everybody know that's prime chick gettin' time.:laugh: When I was REALLY working it I'd strap on the toolbelt.:laugh::laugh:

[DLT]

I sorta picked up on the thinking that I was there to get them to change their minds, to subterfuge.

Overall, it was a good experience for me. I learned something about how Brits view gun ownership. I am sure that courtesy of the BBC they only think of American as the wild west, where everyone shoots everyone over any dispute. And it IS sorta that way in the inner cities with the dark young men.

Meanwhile.....those of us with common sense and logic (Hint: not gun-hating lefties)....know that owning or carrying a gun is a lot like having insurance. You have it on your car if you drive somewhere in case you have an accident. You have it on your house in case something happens to cause damage (flood, tornado, etc). You have it covering your health in case you get sick. Having a gun is no different. You have it in case you need it. If you never do, great. But if you need it, your chances of surviving an incident increase dramatically vs. someone that is unarmed. Insurance. Don't leave home without it. :laugh:

[DLT]

Folks, you can see why there are such differences between British and American culture. The above 'reasons' which permit a Brit to legally own a gun, are far removed from the American 'right to defence' argument .. which simply doesn't come within the range of reasons you are permitted to own one in Britain. The entire 'defend yourself with a gun' premise just does not exist in our culture.

Nonnie's piece, in any case, shows that within even these severely curtailed justifications, further restrictions apply, making it impossible for most to justify gun ownership.

But I found it appalling to see, on the Brit forum which Perianne spent a very brief time posting to, just how intolerant they were, there, to ideas not their own. Judgementality was rife, and it was all based on the narrow perceptions the British hold as to what can and should be seen to be 'right'.

I've said, and will always maintain, that the English 2011 riots, which spread across much of that country and persisted for the better part of a week, could've been stopped in their tracks if ONLY shopkeepers, etc had been empowered to defend themselves and their property. But, they weren't, and we saw where that led.

Ridiculously, Brits look at reports of American shootings, the reaction is to do a lot of 'tut-tutting', then the gun control debate begins again (for a little while). Always, the talk is one of 'are our laws tough ENOUGH'. And, why don't Americans toughen up their own laws ?

I don't recall any British commentator ever covering an Obama pronouncement on tougher gun laws with a critical approach to it. If views are expressed, it's always to sympathise with Obama.

I saw you post something over there about how the UK populace relies on the police vs. the individual for their own protection.

Here in America...we have a saying based on a truism. It is what happens in the majority of cases when someone's life is in danger. It goes like this....."When seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

Quite literally, if someone breaks into your house, kicks down the door, home invasion, etc.....there is NO way the police are going to save you. You are on your own. They will, however, show up later (after the drama) and will make out a nice report on the incident. And, perhaps even remove your body and/or that of your family.

Great, huh?

[DLT]

Here is the rub.

I generally believe brits to be more level-headed and responsible and informed than 'muricans. I can't back that up with proof.

Yet Brits do not trust themselves with gun ownership. I really wonder why Brits feel by-and-large they are incapible of handling the responsibility. What gives? Too many years under imperial control and folks have no self-esteem or wits about them? My AR15 has sat in the top shelf of my closet for three years and hasn't killed anyone. It sits there beside several loaded 30-round mags, few thousand rounds, and a 100 round drum magazine. Above my cooking area in the kitchen, about 7 1/2 feet high from the floor, rests a Glock 9mm, loaded with hollowpoints. It's been there two years just chillin'. Probably enjoying the wonderful smells because I'm a fantastic cook. Hasn't harmed a soul. And so-on with other weapons i own.

I really will NEVER understand how people give control of their freedom over to their respective govts. I will never understand the willfully nuetered.

I know the popularity of the Hunger Games books because Panem is REAL. It's real in the hearts of those who WANT to be lead by totalitarian governments. Our governments are moving, if inching, closer to that model. The last hope for true freedom is an armed populace. See, people do NOT want responsibility for their provisions. People want to lash out and blame because people lack the self-esteem to face the facts they are, by and large, nitwits and incapable. When 'the system' fails them, it's Not THEIR fault!!

So - people elect folks who blatantly lie (such lies are: Speed kills, Gun-culture, Rape-culture, Tolerance, etc, ad nauseam) and promise them "free" shit.

People believe BULLSHIT like:

"Oh! We will KEEP YOU SAFE by removing the best form of protection from violence! When seconds count, our Police are merely minutes away!"

Bullshit. Police have NO duty to risk their lives to protect citizens. Police have NO way to prevent ANY crime; merely to respond to one in progress or one completed.

"Oh! We will KEEP YOU SAFE by removing your ability to decide the safest way to operate the vehicle YOU maintain! We will impose revenue-generating limits on your travel AND....AND we will decide if your vehicle is safe! After all, can't have steering columns falling through the floor and possibly hurting others, now can we! If these measures SAVE EVEN ONE LIFE they are worth it!!"

Bullshit. Speed doesn't kill. Piss-poor decision-making while driving kills, regardless of speed - which is one of probably ten dozen OTHER and more significant factors in crashes. And the inspection bullshit - look, if people drive pieces of crap and those cars malfunction let the operator pay the consequence. And I cannot recall ONE major accident, EVER where it was purely mechanical failure of a car that caused or significantly caused a disaster. Moreover, even thinking of the one or ten? Actual cases where Toyotas years ago ran full throttle - no government-mandated inspection would have found and precluded it (keeping in mind probably 95% were operator error - maybe even 100 percent as folks didn't simply shut the car off, shift it out of gear or apply the brakes full-force).

There isn't much hope left folks. Dangerous Liberty trumps safe slavery - at least in the minds of the pure; the truly free.

Our nation has become lazy, pampered and apathetic. A nation of meow-whipped metrosexual liberals that, since they have no real feeling of power over their own lives, seek to secure government positions in order to have power over others. And some of those liberals/lefties are also the ex-hippies that were anti-war and anti-American....and they never grew out of it...it only got worse with age.

[Perianne]

DLT, I give you credit. You certainly stand up to those leftists.

[Gunny]

DLT, I give you credit. You certainly stand up to those leftists.

Try and find something wrong with her assessment. I think she's pretty spot on.

[Drummond]

I saw you post something over there about how the UK populace relies on the police vs. the individual for their own protection.

Here in America...we have a saying based on a truism. It is what happens in the majority of cases when someone's life is in danger. It goes like this....."When seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

Quite literally, if someone breaks into your house, kicks down the door, home invasion, etc.....there is NO way the police are going to save you. You are on your own. They will, however, show up later (after the drama) and will make out a nice report on the incident. And, perhaps even remove your body and/or that of your family.

Great, huh?

Over here, the burglar would invade, trash the place, steal what he wanted, and no doubt be guaranteed to survive. If you happened to be home at the time and used any more than the minimal force necessary to defend home and family, and of course if the burglar is caught (?!) ... he could try and sue YOU, the homeowner, if he could allege you'd used more force than 'deemed necessary'.

But capture is unlikely. When I lived in Essex, I lived in a community where the local police station was only manned, and open, weekdays during office hours. Which is fine, because as we all know, crime only ever happens between those hours .....:rolleyes:

[Drummond]

DLT, I give you credit. You certainly stand up to those leftists.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Perianne]

DLT, I give you credit. You certainly stand up to those leftists.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

And no one stands up to them better than you, Sir Drummond! My hat is off to you.

[red state]

When you see riots, and people getting assaulted, and businesses being destryoyed and burned down - that's happening to folks and shops where there is no one armed. I can post many videos of folks IN their businesses, guarding with rifles and hand guns during the riots - and surprisingly no harm or destruction comes to the inside of their business.

Heck, Jim.....whadja do?! Scare Nore off with logic & fact?
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
I went from page to page expecting a reply to back up that pricky lil' comment he made but he is not to be found. Funny how logic and FACT scares a liberal half to death.

I truly hate threads like this because they become so redundant with the willing ignorance of those who 'suppose' to be interested in the FACT that gun toting areas are less likely to have heavy crime. One would think that any bumper sticker over the years or good ole, NATURAL, common sense would shed some light on questions that these liberals seem to have.

DMP, you did a great job giving that 'procreation' example......it was a bit RAW but I liked it and will use it. I was just about to comment to Nommie that some folks actually like to shoot (just to SHOOT) and some like and/or need to hunt. If you didn't get through to her.....she was simply doing EXACTLY like NOre with trying out "gotcha" scenarios on those like US who like guns or LOGICally see a need for them.

[red state]

I saw you post something over there about how the UK populace relies on the police vs. the individual for their own protection.

Here in America...we have a saying based on a truism. It is what happens in the majority of cases when someone's life is in danger. It goes like this....."When seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

Quite literally, if someone breaks into your house, kicks down the door, home invasion, etc.....there is NO way the police are going to save you. You are on your own. They will, however, show up later (after the drama) and will make out a nice report on the incident. And, perhaps even remove your body and/or that of your family.

Great, huh?

Yep....and we should remember New Orleans during Katrina. Awful turn of events in that liberal area. Truthfully, New Orleans is a police NO-SHOW in many bad streets to this day.

To Drummond and to kinda back DLT up on what was said......I would have assumed that the latest Casino Royale BOND film (theme song) would would have been banned cuz it NAILS it with the line: "Arm yourself because no one else here will save you ..."

[red state]

Just a side note but who'd wanna see a feature film where the good guy (not a cop) went to the cops or allowed his wife to be raped right in from of him simply because he could only seek the PO PO? That'd be a boring, pissy film that nobody would pay to see. That's why all the big bucks went to Bronson films and Westerns. Even if the good guy wasn't around or simply got caught in a bad situation.........he or she still made it right. If Brits & liberals had to watch their films about THEM, they'd probably puke on themselves.

In the Philippines, even knives are banned and in Australia (as with other liberal places) only the elite or wealthy can have guns. It sickens me that Australia (and I now assume the UK) self preservation is NOT a justification or legal means to obtain a firearm. SICKENING!!!!

To the author of this thread.......having a gun that I've never used (under a blanket somewhere) is still something that a crook (or muSLUM) knows is in most EVERY household here in the South (CONSERVATIVE areas) and it is usually not worth the risk to rob and plunder here...just the rep alone makes having a gun worth having. UNDERSTAND?

[Nonnie]

Just a side note but who'd wanna see a feature film where the good guy (not a cop) went to the cops or allowed his wife to be raped right in from of him simply because he could only seek the PO PO? That'd be a boring, pissy film that nobody would pay to see. That's why all the big bucks went to Bronson films and Westerns. Even if the good guy wasn't around or simply got caught in a bad situation.........he or she still made it right. If Brits & liberals had to watch their films about THEM, they'd probably puke on themselves.

In the Philippines, even knives are banned and in Australia (as with other liberal places) only the elite or wealthy can have guns. It sickens me that Australia (and I now assume the UK) self preservation is NOT a justification or legal means to obtain a firearm. SICKENING!!!!

To the author of this thread.......having a gun that I've never used (under a blanket somewhere) is still something that a crook (or muSLUM) knows is in most EVERY household here in the South (CONSERVATIVE areas) and it is usually not worth the risk to rob and plunder here...just the rep alone makes having a gun worth having. UNDERSTAND?

Because your culture had guns from day one, your culture feels the need for them to defend yourself against them. A vicious circle !

Whereas here, if I found an intruder, he/she would 'accidentally' bang their face off a wall several times, then the floor, then the door frame but more importantly, no cops shot, no dogs shot, no offender shot and no resident shot. We get to live!!

I know a guy, when he was a teenager, he used to burgle houses. Now he has a successful business turning over a million, staff, house and wife.
He lives 4 miles away from me, probably in America that's classed as next door!

Go back when he was a teenager, shoot him dead?

[Drummond]

Yep....and we should remember New Orleans during Katrina. Awful turn of events in that liberal area. Truthfully, New Orleans is a police NO-SHOW in many bad streets to this day.

To Drummond and to kinda back DLT up on what was said......I would have assumed that the latest Casino Royale BOND film (theme song) would would have been banned cuz it NAILS it with the line: "Arm yourself because no one else here will save you ..."

Excellent point ! Must've got past the censors somehow .... I'm waiting for 'Q' to come up with a boobytrapped feather duster in the next film ...

[Black Diamond]

Excellent point ! Must've got past the censors somehow .... I'm waiting for 'Q' to come up with a boobytrapped feather duster in the next film ...

:laugh:

[Drummond]

Because your culture had guns from day one, your culture feels the need for them to defend yourself against them. A vicious circle !

Whereas here, if I found an intruder, he/she would 'accidentally' bang their face off a wall several times, then the floor, then the door frame but more importantly, no cops shot, no dogs shot, no offender shot and no resident shot. We get to live!!

I know a guy, when he was a teenager, he used to burgle houses. Now he has a successful business turning over a million, staff, house and wife.
He lives 4 miles away from me, probably in America that's classed as next door!

Go back when he was a teenager, shoot him dead?

Nonnie, it's a good thing that nothing more had happened to that intruder. Intruders, here, can sue you, under certain circumstances. Our police here take a dim view of burglars who get hurt, because, 'of course', the offender's rights are so important !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2988830.stm


Burglar Brendon Fearon has won the right to sue the farmer whose home he was breaking into.

Farmer Tony Martin shot at the two men forcing entry into his remote Norfolk farmhouse, injuring Mr Fearon and killing his 16-year-old accomplice.

While Mr Martin is serving a five-year manslaughter sentence, Mr Fearon plans to sue him for a reported £15,000, claiming his leg injuries have affected his ability to enjoy sex and martial arts.

District Judge Oliver said a full hearing would consider what rights a householder has to protect their property and whether a burglar can be deemed to be outside the law.

[indago]

Nonnie, it's a good thing that nothing more had happened to that intruder. Intruders, here, can sue you, under certain circumstances. Our police here take a dim view of burglars who get hurt, because, 'of course', the offender's rights are so important !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2988830.stm



Well, at the very least then, that will all go on record...

[Drummond]

Well, at the very least then, that will all go on record...

True. But the psychology is very different. The way these things are looked at is vastly different in the UK.

[DLT]

True. But the psychology is very different. The way these things are looked at is vastly different in the UK.

Heads up....your PM/email storage is full-up.

Good morning (officially)!

[DLT]

Over here, the burglar would invade, trash the place, steal what he wanted, and no doubt be guaranteed to survive. If you happened to be home at the time and used any more than the minimal force necessary to defend home and family, and of course if the burglar is caught (?!) ... he could try and sue YOU, the homeowner, if he could allege you'd used more force than 'deemed necessary'.

But capture is unlikely. When I lived in Essex, I lived in a community where the local police station was only manned, and open, weekdays during office hours. Which is fine, because as we all know, crime only ever happens between those hours .....:rolleyes:

Well I remember a time (when the loony left ran things even back then) when folks were 'jokingly serious' instructed to, if they shot a burglar attempting to break in...drag his body inside your house so as to not get in any trouble. Such BS! Hell, here in Texas you can shoot a burgler breaking into your neighbor's house, even (Joe Horn (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1)).

[Gunny]

Well I remember a time (when the loony left ran things even back then) when folks were 'jokingly serious' instructed to, if they shot a burglar attempting to break in...drag his body inside your house so as to not get in any trouble. Such BS! Hell, here in Texas you can shoot a burgler breaking into your neighbor's house, even (Joe Horn (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1)).

I was bout to say .....:laugh: We can shoot anything that ain't considered an endangered species. :laugh:

[red state]

Because your culture had guns from day one, your culture feels the need for them to defend yourself against them. A vicious circle !

Whereas here, if I found an intruder, he/she would 'accidentally' bang their face off a wall several times, then the floor, then the door frame but more importantly, no cops shot, no dogs shot, no offender shot and no resident shot. We get to live!!

I know a guy, when he was a teenager, he used to burgle houses. Now he has a successful business turning over a million, staff, house and wife.
He lives 4 miles away from me, probably in America that's classed as next door!

Go back when he was a teenager, shoot him dead?

It was good ole boys like my Grandfather, who saved a many of those NOT like my Grandfather back in WWII......he was accustomed to taking care of himself at (even on his own much of the time by age 13). He had to pretty much take care of the MONSTERS of WWII when it seemed that the MONSTERS truly enjoyed the fact that "YA'LL" weren't up to or accustomed to taking care of yourself. It is awful how egotistical, arrogant and forgetful that more and more of YA'LL have become. YOU R WELCOME! Your insanity and ignorance is has now spread to the USA but we Good Old Boys will not stand for that crap.

I have a very good friend and client in Australia in the security business with a masters in biology something n something and she is TOTALLY against guns......says some pretty stupid stuff like you just spouted off about using a "blackbelt" to ward off a violent intruder. I suppose her 125lbs frame & blackbelt could also ward off a couple of butcher knife welding muSLUMS. Too bad that one of your military boys a year or two ago didn't think about banging those muSLUMS heads into a wall or floor after they ran him over. No, they butchered him (in front of witnesses in broad daylight) and I'd like to think that he woulda/coulda been able to defend himself (just a bit) with an "equalizer" as did one of our military guys who armed himself against one of our muSLUM scum here in the USA (AND HE SAVED HIS & OTHER FOLK'S LIVES by being ARMED).

You will NEVER get the best of me or LOGIC so why not, at least try, opening up and understanding the need to protect yourself, your family & friends?! Perhaps folks in the USA care more for GOOD people and less for scum........like you leftists do.

Lastly.......and I've said this before.......if you guys don't like guns.......FINE!!! But don't try to push your CRAP & insanity on me. Bottom Line...

[red state]

Where's Noir?!!! Dang Jim.....you need to throw some of that logic & fact toward a few more here. Perhaps Nore is in deep thought over what you put to him (rather than spout off ignorance like some of the others we've read). Perhaps they are 350lbs female wrestlers but that still doesn't hold water when you have intruders HELL BENT on doing you and/or your family harm.

ARM YOURSELF!!! Simple!

[red state]

Nonnie, it's a good thing that nothing more had happened to that intruder. Intruders, here, can sue you, under certain circumstances. Our police here take a dim view of burglars who get hurt, because, 'of course', the offender's rights are so important !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2988830.stm



Drummond, you need to simply come on over here where a good number of free thinkers are......I have quite a few guns, a shooting range and all kind of weapons to shoot (and would even loan or sell you a couple). In no way could I live over there....talk about hell on earth. Heck, I'll even try and help you find a place. I have over 150 acres that you could set up a camper until we did find you a place. You need to get outta there (especially if you're thinking of retiring). Just tell B.O. that you're a good muSLUM with a love of tacos and he'll put you in front of the line of those waiting to come on over to the absolute BEST Nation on EARTH and ever in History. That is as un-debatable as my stand on gun rights.

[DLT]

DLT, I give you credit. You certainly stand up to those leftists.

Lol....I honed and sharpened my claws, while swimming with the most rabidly leftist sharks on the net, for over a decade at one of the most leftist sites at that time and in that era. The handful of boorish posters over there pale by comparison to the brand of lefties we have here in the states. But don't tell them that. (ooops...I sense one of them snooping as we speak)

Nah...really....I take that back, guys. You're awesomely BRUTAL! Or...is that brutally AWESOME?

Either way....you guys kill us Yanks. Honest!

http://thepoliticsforums.com/images/smilies/newsmilies/smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

[DLT]

And no one stands up to them better than you, Sir Drummond! My hat is off to you.

They called him the Benedict Arnold of the DF. Don't they realize... that Arnold defected to the Brits (not vice versa)...and was promoted and made a general in the Brit army for 'surrendering'? Drummond would never surrender anything, much less his loyalty and his moral convictions. They don't have a clue. Arnold more aptly describes the average and atypical leftie, in fact.

[Noir]

When you see riots, and people getting assaulted, and businesses being destryoyed and burned down - that's happening to folks and shops where there is no one armed. I can post many videos of folks IN their businesses, guarding with rifles and hand guns during the riots - and surprisingly no harm or destruction comes to the inside of their business.

There has been much suspense and nashing of teeth that i have yet to reply to this post Jim, and so i must - Cool.
^,^

[red state]

:lol::lame2:

[DLT]

What if a couple of Muslim guys come near your home and try to chop off your head with a machete? You have to find a knife as well to defend yourself? Or find the car keys so you can run the bastards over?

It's bad enough that here in the US we have to worry about someone figuring out a way to get in a dirty bomb or nuke or similar. But shit, over there some need to be worried that someone simply doesn't smuggle in a gun!

And therein is the crux of the problem with "gun control" (or the Democrat version). We Texans call it hitting what you're aiming at...lol. But I digress...[cough]

The problem is....the criminals don't bother with petty little details like something being "illegal". They have access to guns via the black market/underground market system. They will always have guns whereas law-abiding citizens may not. And that is the unbalanced (mentally and otherwise) system that the idiot left Democrats want to install in our nation, as well. Not just no....but HELL NO.

[Gunny]

There has been much suspense and nashing of teeth that i have yet to reply to this post Jim, and so i must - Cool.
^,^

It's gnashing, brilliant one.

[Perianne]

It's gnashing, brilliant one.

Gno it's gnot! hahahahahahaha

Peri made a funny!

[Drummond]

Drummond, you need to simply come on over here where a good number of free thinkers are......I have quite a few guns, a shooting range and all kind of weapons to shoot (and would even loan or sell you a couple). In no way could I live over there....talk about hell on earth. Heck, I'll even try and help you find a place. I have over 150 acres that you could set up a camper until we did find you a place. You need to get outta there (especially if you're thinking of retiring). Just tell B.O. that you're a good muSLUM with a love of tacos and he'll put you in front of the line of those waiting to come on over to the absolute BEST Nation on EARTH and ever in History. That is as un-debatable as my stand on gun rights.

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm retired already, though, and already settled where I now am, with arrangements firmly in place.

Besides .. quitting the UK would add up to my quitting the battle still to be had here. If everyone took the line that vacating locations where undesirable things were happening courtesy of ideological enemies, those enemies would win out. Somebody's got to keep an eye on the BBC's domestic output, and maybe write an occasional stroppy note to the Morning Star (Britain's one Commie newspaper, a paper, by the way, that the recently-elected Leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, regularly writes for !).

[DLT]

They called him the Benedict Arnold of the DF. Don't they realize... that Arnold defected to the Brits (not vice versa)...and was promoted and made a general in the Brit army for 'surrendering'? Drummond would never surrender anything, much less his loyalty and his moral convictions. They don't have a clue. Arnold more aptly describes the average and atypical leftie, in fact.

Attention: To correct a pervious error in this post.....

I have since been made aware that the comment I thought I remembered actually said "reverse Benedict Arnold"....so I was incorrect....

since the comment, albeit an inaccurate assessment of Drummond's character in my humble opinion, was appropriate considering the attempt to compare Drummond to a traitor to the Brits. (whew)

That is all.

[Truth Detector]

This is the UK situation with gun law -

As Britain's gun ownership system is criticised by inspectors, here are the key questions answered on the rules which apply in England, Scotland (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scotland/) and Wales.
:: Can anyone own a gun?
In principle, yes they can. But you have to have a licence to own a gun and you have to comply with certain regulations in order to get a licence.
:: So how do I get a licence?
You would need to apply to your local police force asking for either a Firearms Certificate or a Shotgun Certificate.
:: What's the difference?
A Firearms Certificate (FAC) is for a rifle, certain pistols with overly long barrels, air rifles with a power of more than 12 foot pounds (12ft lbs) or a shotgun with a magazine capacity of three or more cartridges.
A Shotgun Certificate (SGC) does what it says on the tin. It is for a smooth bore gun that does not have a magazine or a non-detachable magazine that holds no more than two cartridges, with a barrel not less than 24" (60.96cm) and a bore less than 2" (5.08cm).
:: What about air rifles?
Any adult can own an air rifle provided it does not exceed a power output of 12ft lbs which is the amount of energy needed to propel a pound in weight 12 feet into the air. Anything of 12ft lbs or over is treated like a firearm.
:: So what happens after that?
You decide what licence is appropriate for you and apply. There are only two reasons you can have a gun. One is for shooting at targets, i.e. at a gun club, while the other is for hunting.
If you're looking to hunt (i.e. shooting animals) you have to have somewhere appropriate to shoot - either you own the land or you have the owner's permission to shoot there.
It has to be land that's suitable for shooting, so it has to be safe so you do not present a danger to the public.
If it's your first application, you will need a firearms police expert to come and inspect the land to ensure it fits the criteria - your back garden, for instance, unless it's a particularly large expanse, is unlikely to be considered suitable.
:: Once I've got the licence and the gun, can I keep it at home?
Yes, but the gun has to be under lock and key, in a cabinet attached to a wall - again the police will come to inspect.
You also need somewhere separate to keep the ammunition, although this could be a mini locker inside your gun cabinet.
:: Are there any reasons why I can't have a licence?
There may be physical or mental health reasons why you will be refused a gun licence.
You have to disclose them on your application form and it is an offence not to reveal relevant information.
If you've been given a suspended sentence for a minimum of three months or more, you cannot hold a firearm for five years after being sentenced.
If you have been in prison for three years or more, you are forever banned from having a licence.
:: And, finally, can I have a gun purely to defend myself?
No, never.



How do Americans view our situation? Apparently inspectors are not happy !!

I am constantly perplexed by Eurodunces who celebrate their incredible lack of liberties, choices and Government dependency.

[red state]

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm retired already, though, and already settled where I now am, with arrangements firmly in place.

Besides .. quitting the UK would add up to my quitting the battle still to be had here. If everyone took the line that vacating locations where undesirable things were happening courtesy of ideological enemies, those enemies would win out. Somebody's got to keep an eye on the BBC's domestic output, and maybe write an occasional stroppy note to the Morning Star (Britain's one Commie newspaper, a paper, by the way, that the recently-elected Leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, regularly writes for !).

I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. For years, I've invited Conservative friends and clients from California to join the ranks here in the South but they pretty much tell me the same thing you just did. In a way I agree but in another way, one could look at from a Native American's point of view. You can remain divided among the tribes, endeavor to live with the whiteeye OR you can join forces and kick @$$ from a strategically supportive area/like-minded group. I suppose there are pros and cons to most anything if you dwell on it long enough.

Hope all goes well with the retirement.....I'm just surprised the UK hasn't said you have too much room in your house, too much money to play with and too much time before you get off your earned benefits/retirement plan. As you well know, there are plenty of poor "immigrant muSLUMs" who could use at least half of everything that you don't need.

Take care in libby land, my friend.

[sundaydriver]

I was in Mississippi ONCE! :laugh:

[Gunny]

I was in Mississippi ONCE! :laugh:

Mississippi is a nice place. I don't think I've ever been to a place I couldn't appreciate. Except maybe West Texas. :laugh: It's the people, not the place that ruin it.

[Drummond]

I am constantly perplexed by Eurodunces who celebrate their incredible lack of liberties, choices and Government dependency.

It's all down to indoctrination. In the UK, we've had interference from Leftie Governments and Leftie pressure groups for a number of GENERATIONS. Added to which we have no equivalent of your Constitution to protect basic rights.

If you'd had terms of Obama-equivalents ruling you, on and off, for the better part of a century .. you might then have had a better chance of appreciating how the Left get away with so much, here, today. People are firmly brainwashed into believing that gun ownership is not only fundamentally wrong, but that to permit it is an uncivilising state of affairs. Obama's speeches on gun control always receive approval here, and he's seen as a reforming influence on America for the better because of it !!!

[Gunny]

It's all down to indoctrination. In the UK, we've had interference from Leftie Governments and Leftie pressure groups for a number of GENERATIONS. Added to which we have no equivalent of your Constitution to protect basic rights.

If you'd had terms of Obama-equivalents ruling you, on and off, for the better part of a century .. you might then have had a better chance of appreciating how the Left get away with so much, here, today. People are firmly brainwashed into believing that gun ownership is not only fundamentally wrong, but that to permit it is an uncivilising state of affairs. Obama's speeches on gun control always receive approval here, and he's seen as a reforming influence on America for the better because of it !!!

Yes you do. Our Constitution is based on the Magna Carta. It just got tailored to suit our interests. Otherwise, guess where we all came from? My ancestry is Scot and English.

As someone else posted above, the 2nd Amendment exists DIRECTLY because of Redcoats. That is actually true. Back then, us rednecks weren't taking any crap. The actual fact is while the Northerners try to tell you they did something, it was the Southerners that kicked ass. Washington and his Continental Army got their asses kicked all over the place. They didn't win a battle until (believe it or not) the French intervened. Been paying for THAT for 200 years.

In the South a certain arrogant ass named Ferguson (who was quite brilliant) tried on a bunch of Georgia rednecks and got his ass whipped. In South Carolina there was the Swamp Fox, Francis Marion. Ain't none of us rednecks playing games with wimps. We don't need guns, but if you bring one to the table, we got to ante up. Tarelton was a butcher and should have been hanged slowly.

That "confederate battle flag"? Saint Andrews Cross on a red field and was originally a British naval standard. It never represented the Confederate States of America except as a battle standard. The "stars n bars" was the official CSA flag.

But it's just something else for the left to deflect away from the truth with, isn't it?

[Perianne]

It's all down to indoctrination. In the UK, we've had interference from Leftie Governments and Leftie pressure groups for a number of GENERATIONS. Added to which we have no equivalent of your Constitution to protect basic rights.

If you'd had terms of Obama-equivalents ruling you, on and off, for the better part of a century .. you might then have had a better chance of appreciating how the Left get away with so much, here, today. People are firmly brainwashed into believing that gun ownership is not only fundamentally wrong, but that to permit it is an uncivilising state of affairs. Obama's speeches on gun control always receive approval here, and he's seen as a reforming influence on America for the better because of it !!!

It is already well entrenched here. Some people who call themselves conservatives don't even see it in themselves.