Texas secessionists launch petition drive for vote to break away!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-secessionists-launch-petition-drive-vote-break-away-012823002.html

Texas secessionists launch petition drive for vote to break away


Reuters By Jim Forsyth
2 hours ago

By Jim Forsyth

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - A group called the Texas Nationalist Movement fanned out to 31 cities across Texas this weekend trying to gather the 75,000 signatures they say they need to get the question of the state's secession from the United States on the primary ballot next spring.

Texas is one of only two U.S. states, the other being Hawaii, that were once internationally recognized sovereign nations, with diplomatic ties to other countries. Although legal experts said it would be unconstitutional for Texas to break away via a primary vote, there is still a spirit of Texas independence among many in the Lone Star State.

"What we are seeing, over and over, is this complete disconnect between the people of Texas, what they want, and what is going on in Washington, D.C.," TNM President Daniel Miller told Reuters.

"The people of Texas don't have anything against the United States, they are just tired of being governed by bureaucrats we didn't elect pushing programs we don't want."

He compared Texas to Scotland, which narrowly defeated a proposal to secede from the United Kingdom last year, and Catalonia, which is pushing to hold a vote on independence from Spain this year.

"We are living in the era of the right of political self-determination," Miller said.

But there is one rather big problem, according to T. Gerald Treece, a professor at South Texas College of Law in Houston and an expert on Constitutional Law.

"That problem is the Civil War," Treece said. "When Texas and the other Southern states were re-admitted, each of them made a solemn promise that they would never leave the Union again."

Treece said there are some legislative options available to the Texas Nationalist Movement, short of another civil war.

"You have to have the Texas Legislature initiate a request, and then you have to have the U.S. Congress approve it, and then it could happen," he said, adding that with 'two sovereigns involved,' both would have to give their assent.

Many states have discussed leaving the Union over the last century, but the talk has been louder in Texas, with some Republicans, including former Governor Rick Perry, floating the idea of secession.

Texas would certainly have the clout to become influential on the world stage as an independent nation, with a $1.4 trillion-a year-economy, about the same size as South Korea's.

(Editing by Jon Herkovitz and Phil Berlowitz)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Texas leaves the union, I am moving there come hell or high water.
Just damn sick of this leftist ,tyrannical, dem-controlled Federal government.-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

The whole "Texas can secede" thing is a very pervasive myth. A Supreme Court decision in 1867 makes it illegal for any state to do so.

“The union between Texas and the other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the states.”

If you look at the resolution for the annexation of Texas, it contains no mention of secession.

[revelarts]

Texas secessionists launch petition drive for vote to break away
Reuters By Jim Forsyth
By Jim Forsyth
SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - A group called the Texas Nationalist Movement fanned out to 31 cities across Texas this weekend trying to gather the 75,000 signatures they say they need to get the question of the state's secession from the United States on the primary ballot next spring.
Texas is one of only two U.S. states, the other being Hawaii, that were once internationally recognized sovereign nations, with diplomatic ties to other countries. Although legal experts said it would be unconstitutional for Texas to break away via a primary vote, there is still a spirit of Texas independence among many in the Lone Star State.
"What we are seeing, over and over, is this complete disconnect between the people of Texas, what they want, and what is going on in Washington, D.C.," TNM President Daniel Miller told Reuters.
"The people of Texas don't have anything against the United States, they are just tired of being governed by bureaucrats we didn't elect pushing programs we don't want."
He compared Texas to Scotland, which narrowly defeated a proposal to secede from the United Kingdom last year, and Catalonia, which is pushing to hold a vote on independence from Spain this year.
"We are living in the era of the right of political self-determination," Miller said.
But there is one rather big problem, according to T. Gerald Treece, a professor at South Texas College of Law in Houston and an expert on Constitutional Law.
"That problem is the Civil War," Treece said. "When Texas and the other Southern states were re-admitted, each of them made a solemn promise that they would never leave the Union again."
Treece said there are some legislative options available to the Texas Nationalist Movement, short of another civil war.
"You have to have the Texas Legislature initiate a request, and then you have to have the U.S. Congress approve it, and then it could happen," he said, adding that with 'two sovereigns involved,' both would have to give their assent.
Many states have discussed leaving the Union over the last century, but the talk has been louder in Texas, with some Republicans, including former Governor Rick Perry, floating the idea of secession.
Texas would certainly have the clout to become influential on the world stage as an independent nation, with a $1.4 trillion-a year-economy, about the same size as South Korea's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Texas leaves the union, I am moving there come hell or high water.
Just damn sick of this leftist ,tyrannical, dem-controlled Federal government.-Tyr

series of rambling thoughts

•I've always thought that it was "legal" and constitutional for states to secede but that during the civil war it was done for -immoral reasons-. (see other threads for my reasons I some don't agree)

•i wasn't aware of any promises made by the southern states or Sotus decisions making it "illegal".

•but this
""You have to have the Texas Legislature initiate a request, and then you have to have the U.S. Congress approve it, and then it could happen," he said, adding that with 'two sovereigns involved,' both would have to give their assent."
That absolutely would cover the the bases.
I wonder how many congressmen could be persuaded to vote to allow a state leave. they all are so beholden to special interest so i suspect the NO vote would be pretty universal. the special interest LIKE the the D.C. power center. power away from the meddling people. they would like it even better at the U.N..

•But concerning this mentioned but unquoted promise made by the southern states. would that apply to New Hampshire or Hawaii etc? Plus how many treaties has the U.S. broken over land sovereignty? Can the U.S, gov't with a strait face demand others honor land sovereignty agreements?


•I'd like to see one state secede just as an experiment.

I wonder if the US would try to undermine the success of the new country?
I wonder if an independent Texas would send troops to Iraq, or send planes to the Ukraine, or try to have bases in the pacific?
I wonder if it would try to build a wall around the WHOLE STATE since I'm sure some americans might want to illegally cross the boarder.
I don't wonder if they'd be treated the same as Mexican illegals.
I wonder if they'd allow the US's NSA-CIA-DOD-FBI to spy on Texas citizens?
I wonder if they'd allow US drones over the state?
I wonder what their their relationship to Israel would be?
Would they keep the U.S. dollar or mint their own money? what would be the exchange rate?
Trafiffs on U.S. products.. on Texas products? Rights to oil in the Gulf?
Activity duty U.S. military from Texas, would they have quit?
Veterans Admin hospitals and military bases, storehouses in Texas closed or granted space.
Would Texas become a U.N. member state?

•They'd immeadiatly lose the U.S. Depts of state, energy, education, epa, labor, treasury, justice, interior, ag, commerce, health & human series, HUD, transportation, Veteran Affairs and Homeland security,
and no more IRS.

•There are a Lot of veery interesting questions about what gov't does that would get asked that many take for granted in the U.S. today as IF IT just SHOULD always be this way amen and amen. but it ain't necessarily so.

•It's weird ... i have to say it again.
many of the things that some hope for in a secession Ron Paul was ready to get the ball rolling on. but somehow he was too radical. but secession THAT somehow makes better sense.

[indago]

but there is one rather big problem, according to t. Gerald treece, a professor at south texas college of law in houston and an expert on constitutional law.

"that problem is the civil war," treece said. "when texas and the other southern states were re-admitted, each of them made a solemn promise that they would never leave the union again."

promises, promises...

[indago]

The whole "Texas can secede" thing is a very pervasive myth. A Supreme Court decision in 1867 makes it illegal for any state to do so.

“The union between Texas and the other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the states.”

If you look at the resolution for the annexation of Texas, it contains no mention of secession.

But, as according to Supreme Court Justice John Marshal premise, it doesn't say they can't do it...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

series of rambling thoughts

•I've always thought that it was "legal" and constitutional for states to secede but that during the civil war it was done for -immoral reasons-. (see other threads for my reasons I some don't agree)

•i wasn't aware of any promises made by the southern states or Sotus decisions making it "illegal".

•but this
""You have to have the Texas Legislature initiate a request, and then you have to have the U.S. Congress approve it, and then it could happen," he said, adding that with 'two sovereigns involved,' both would have to give their assent."
That absolutely would cover the the bases.
I wonder how many congressmen could be persuaded to vote to allow a state leave. they all are so beholden to special interest so i suspect the NO vote would be pretty universal. the special interest LIKE the the D.C. power center. power away from the meddling people. they would like it even better at the U.N..

•But concerning this mentioned but unquoted promise made by the southern states. would that apply to New Hampshire or Hawaii etc? Plus how many treaties has the U.S. broken over land sovereignty? Can the U.S, gov't with a strait face demand others honor land sovereignty agreements?


•I'd like to see one state secede just as an experiment.

I wonder if the US would try to undermine the success of the new country?
I wonder if an independent Texas would send troops to Iraq, or send planes to the Ukraine, or try to have bases in the pacific?
I wonder if it would try to build a wall around the WHOLE STATE since I'm sure some americans might want to illegally cross the boarder.
I don't wonder if they'd be treated the same as Mexican illegals.
I wonder if they'd allow the US's NSA-CIA-DOD-FBI to spy on Texas citizens?
I wonder if they'd allow US drones over the state?
I wonder what their their relationship to Israel would be?
Would they keep the U.S. dollar or mint their own money? what would be the exchange rate?
Trafiffs on U.S. products.. on Texas products? Rights to oil in the Gulf?
Activity duty U.S. military from Texas, would they have quit?
Veterans Admin hospitals and military bases, storehouses in Texas closed or granted space.
Would Texas become a U.N. member state?

•They'd immeadiatly lose the U.S. Depts of state, energy, education, epa, labor, treasury, justice, interior, ag, commerce, health & human series, HUD, transportation, Veteran Affairs and Homeland security,
and no more IRS.

•There are a Lot of veery interesting questions about what gov't does that would get asked that many take for granted in the U.S. today as IF IT just SHOULD always be this way amen and amen. but it ain't necessarily so.

•It's weird ... i have to say it again.
many of the things that some hope for in a secession Ron Paul was ready to get the ball rolling on. but somehow he was too radical. but secession THAT somehow makes better sense.



•It's weird ... i have to say it again.
many of the things that some hope for in a secession Ron Paul was ready to get the ball rolling on. but somehow he was too radical. but secession THAT somehow makes better sense.

^^^ Ron Paul is not Texas. a state acting within its own government and showing signs of desiring to actually secede!!!--Tyr

[Gunny]

The whole "Texas can secede" thing is a very pervasive myth. A Supreme Court decision in 1867 makes it illegal for any state to do so.

“The union between Texas and the other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the states.”

If you look at the resolution for the annexation of Texas, it contains no mention of secession.

Wrong. Minust that stupid Texas v White ruling in 1868 to cover the US's dumb asses, please enlighten us as to what in the Constitution says a state can't leave as freely as it joined? Try educating yourself before running your mouth.

[Perianne]

I am guessing if Texas wants to leave the USA, there won't be any asking going on. They will just do it.

[gabosaurus]

Wrong. Minust that stupid Texas v White ruling in 1868 to cover the US's dumb asses, please enlighten us as to what in the Constitution says a state can't leave as freely as it joined? Try educating yourself before running your mouth.

Because it is unlawful!! :salute:
If nothing else, the U.S. can always give Texas back to Mexico. They already have a head start. ;)

[Gunny]

Because it is unlawful!! :salute:
If nothing else, the U.S. can always give Texas back to Mexico. They already have a head start. ;)

No it isn't. And the US ain't got shit to give away. Our economy is sounder then the US's. And we protect our own borders just like we did in 1836 and we didn't have you whiners around to protect shit or just ignore the flood of criminals.

[red state]

No it isn't. And the US ain't got shit to give away. Our economy is sounder then the US's. And we protect our own borders just like we did in 1836 and we didn't have you whiners around to protect shit or just ignore the flood of criminals.

HA! what a dumb@$$ she is for thinking that the US can "give" Texas to Mexico. If anything, Texas will not be hogtied any further and will tell the Mexican Gov. to get a handle on their riff-raff crossing the border ILLEGALLY or they'll do it TEXAS STYLE. Heck, I'm CERTAIN Mexico will stop flooding TEXAS and direct the riff-raff elsewhere before Texas (TAKES) Mexico........Heck, even (IF) Texas, or any Red State were to pay the US back for roads and stuff, we'd still be ahead in no time. Then we can close our borders to liberals and other ilk that have ruined much of our Nation.
:salute:

[red state]

Make no bones about it.....the Devil wants your (our) children and the liberals want TEXAS. Beware!!!!

[gabosaurus]

HA! what a dumb@$$ she is for thinking that the US can "give" Texas to Mexico.

The U.S. can give Texas back to Mexico through the same authority that Texas can secede from the union. :cool: