Family members and race survey...

[revelarts]

Most people here I suspect would say they are not racist.

And mmm I don't think she'll mind but Perrianne has self identified as having racist views. So I'd like a to take a survey of the boards ideas on their own families.

So here's the survey question:
How many people in your extended family do you know of that have ideas about race that are similar to or more extreme than Perriannes?

Tailfins has already mentioned that a few family are/were klan members. so that'd count as more extreme pretty much.

In my family I really don't know of anyone who has a set negative attitude or harsh negative stereotyped views towards whites. Or thinks whites "have to prove themselves" etc..

One of my good friends wives though does a have a negative attitude towards whites. Her default position is that whites are racist. And white men are especially so and generally arrogant. Those are the 2 stereotypes of whites that she carries around. Nothing else. known her for years. I saw some random racist attacks as a kid/teen but know people who grew out of the teen stupidity.

But my family, i can't think of anyone whose known for generally disliking or general negative talk about whites. Or saying that all/most whites are fill in the blank, or who wish whites harm or that they would go away etc..


Anyway. seriously i'm not trying to start anything. love peace and soul everyone.
just wondering if other families here have that stray uncle or aunt...


Perrianne my apologies if this offends you.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Most people here I suspect would say they are not racist.

And mmm I don't think she'll mind but Perrianne has self identified as having racist views. So I'd like a to take a survey of the boards ideas on their own families.

So here's the survey question:
How many people in your extended family do you know of that have ideas about race that are similar to or more extreme than Perriannes?

Tailfins has already mentioned that a few family are/were klan members. so that'd count as more extreme pretty much.

In my family I really don't know of anyone who has a set negative attitude or stereotyped towards whites. Or thinks whites "have to prove themselves" etc..

One of my good friends wives though does a have a negative attitude towards whites. Her default position is that whites are racist. And white men are especially so and generally arrogant. Those are the 2 stereotypes of whites that she carries around. Nothing else. known her for years. I saw some random racist attacks as a kid/teen but know people who grew out of the teen stupidity.

But my family, i can't think of anyone whose known for generally disliking or general negative talk about whites. Or saying that that all/most whites are fill in the blank, or who wish whites harm or that they would go away etc..


Anyway. seriously i'm not trying to start anything. love peace and soul everyone.
just wondering if other families here have that stray uncle or aunt...


Perrianne my apologies if this offends you.

Far more racism is alive and flourishing in the black community now than there is in the white community my friend.
You just need to open your eyes or else get out more. -Tyr

[revelarts]

Far more racism is alive and flourishing in the black community now than there is in the white community my friend.
You just need to open your eyes or else get out more. -Tyr

just asked about your family TYR.

not the white community or black community.
just the DEBATE POLICY community

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

just asked about your family TYR.

not the white community or black community.
just the DEBATE POLICY community

Everybody in my family pretty much sees the race issue as I do, two of my sisters choose to be far more tolerant and blinded to reality but I forgive them of their ignorance in the matter.
My take is color doesn't matter--be a decent person I'll treat ya decently--choose to be scum I'll treat ya like scum. I am not usually gentle at all with how I treat scum and skin color doesn't have a damn thing to do with it , because I treat white scum exactly the same damn way. And with exactly the same amount of harshness.
Fact... -Tyr

[NightTrain]

I can't think of anyone in my family that's racist.

People get judged on an individual basis. And sometimes that happens quickly - if I see a kid walking around with his ass hanging out of his pants or looking like he fell face-first into my tacklebox, I'll write them off as a punk. Doesn't matter what race they are, punks are punks.

[Perianne]

Perrianne my apologies if this offends you.

I am offended by you misspelling my name!! Only one "r". Perianne.
Joking, no offense.

About the "racism" talk. I think you have done an appropriate thing by starting this talk. I don't consider myself a "stray aunt" by any means. Most of my friends fell the same way about some blacks. We also feel the same way about some whites.

Maybe it's just the part of the country I live in, but I find MANY whites who feel the same as I do: give the blacks a chance, but have low expectations. Example: Obama.

[Perianne]

You might also notice, Rev, that my worse disgust is not for blacks. My worst is for Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, and the like.

[darin]

My cousin Clayton was the leader of a KKK wing awhile back

He's done some youtube vids..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFJAAMS8U5Y

[Abbey Marie]

I can't think of anyone in my family that's racist.

People get judged on an individual basis. And sometimes that happens quickly - if I see a kid walking around with his ass hanging out of his pants or looking like he fell face-first into my tacklebox, I'll write them off as a punk. Doesn't matter what race they are, punks are punks.
Lol @ "face-first into my tackle box"!

[Kathianne]

Can't say I've family members, immediate or extended that are racists.

Wait, my mother's brother married my aunt on LA, he became sorta racist, but we only saw him once. My parents were not happy with his talk.

[Abbey Marie]

A former boyfriend's family would throw around the N word at dinner. I found it shocking and unsettling. I started staying away. We were not raised that way. No cursing either, btw.

[Perianne]

A former boyfriend's family would throw around the N word at dinner. I found it shocking and unsettling. I started staying away. We were not raised that way. No cursing either, btw.

My own black "daddy" used the word regularly. Maybe it is where one is brought up.

[Abbey Marie]

My own black "daddy" used the word regularly. Maybe it is where one is brought up.

I'd say more "how" one is brought up, than where.

[sundaydriver]

My Mom didn't know what to make of Don King when she had to deal with him. I think it was the hair. :laugh:

[gabosaurus]

I don't see why it matter if anyone has racist views. It's their own personal opinion. Some DP members are racist and sexist. Not to mention homophobic.
I see no reason to castigate or "out" anyone for their viewpoints.

[SassyLady]

Most of my family were racist - I say "were" because most of them are dead. I was constantly fighting with my family about racism. But back then it wasn't called racism. It was "sticking with your own kind".

My parents moved the family twice to keep me from going to school with, as they called them "n*****s" and "s***s" (AA and Hispanic). Going into 7th grade we moved because I would not be in an all white school. Then, going into 9th grade moved again. However, we did have 2 exchange students from Jamaica, but I didn't tell my parents. Two out of over 400 kids.

They divorced when I was halfway through my junior year. Had no choice about where to move and I ended up in a school that was almost 50/50 whites and hispanics. Still no blacks.

I think I've mentioned this before ... I grew up in Bakersfield, CA area. A little suburb of Bakersfield was Oildale. Had to cross a bridge to get there. Sign on bridge said "no blacks after sunset". It's still a very racist town.

Google Oildale and read a little bit.

I have racist views .... hate white trash ... or any color trash. I'm also a bigot. Bigot does not tolerate ... I don't tolerate a lot of things, so I'm a bigot.

What pisses me off is people thinking white people are the most racist. Don't have to look to far to realize that blacks hate everyone, hispanics hate everyone, asians hate everyone, middle easterns hate everyone ... racism exists .... everywhere.

[Jeff]

I Have a brother in NY that is a real racist :laugh:

All kidding a side, my family wasn't brought up to be racist, heck one of my closes friends coming up was black, and then when I started hanging and partying, at least a 1/3 of the crowd was black. It wasn't until I went to work in the city ( Newark NJ ) a mostly black area where I really seen racism, and no it wasn't just the blacks, it was the inner city folks in general. As I wound up hanging up that way and partying I seen more and more racism on both sides.

But as far as family goes, I had a uncle that use to kid my cousins friend (he was black ) about making sure the neighbors didn't see him come in the front door, but where we grew up it just wasn't a big deal, color that is.

[Noir]

I'd say most of my extended family are racist or sectarian.

[revelarts]

... I grew up in Bakersfield, CA area. A little suburb of Bakersfield was Oildale. Had to cross a bridge to get there. Sign on bridge said "no blacks after sunset". ...


There was a sign like that in my hometown in VA as well. But it was completely prohibitive.
"No Blacks beyond this point" it was at the entrance of just the one large neighborhood that ended in a marsh.
sign went away sometime in the 70s.

[Perianne]

There was a sign like that in my hometown in VA as well. But it was completely prohibitive.
"No Blacks beyond this point" it was at the entrance of just the one large neighborhood that ended in a marsh.

It's long gone -mid -late 70s- and plenty of blacks live in the area now.
but you'll find more confederate flags flying in that area than any others in town.
no correlation of course.:poke:

I am curious. Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?

[revelarts]

I am curious. Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?

you opened yourself up to this one perianne.
i've got to let this one fly folks.

"Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?"
you mean like AMERICA?

Sadly we're kinda use to it.
Plus MLK and many of us blacks like to think and know that many whites can change and have changed,
plus and not all whites are racist... or at least not so racist as to be a major problem.

Not to mention there were fairly nice homes. some water front property.
the fish don't care if we're black.

[Perianne]

you opened yourself up to this one perianne.
i've got to let this one fly folks.

"Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?"
you mean like AMERICA?

Sadly we're kinda use to it.
Plus MLK and many of us blacks like to think and know that many whites can change, and not all whites are racist.

Not to mention there were fairly nice homes. some water front property.
the fish don't care if we're black.

Rev, I meant no disrespect. I thought it was a simple question. There are places here in Lexington where white people are not welcome. The simple answer is to avoid those places. There are plenty of nice places where black people are welcome. I wondered why they would choose one of the most racist places to want to live.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

you opened yourself up to this one perianne.
i've got to let this one fly folks.

"Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?"
you mean like AMERICA?

Sadly we're kinda use to it.
Plus MLK and many of us blacks like to think and know that many whites can change and have changed,
plus and not all whites are racist... or at least not so racist as to be a major problem.

Not to mention there were fairly nice homes. some water front property.
the fish don't care if we're black.


Not to mention there were fairly nice homes. some water front property.
the fish don't care if we're black.

^^^ You see, this is why I like you so much. Made me smile and laugh out loud. Thats a gift/talent you have.
You should cultivate and display it more often my friend IMHO.

Even with our political differences , we still share quite a bit in the attitude department.
Now, if only I could just get ya to come on over into the conservative movement and see the light a tad bit better. ;)-Tyr

[Noir]

I am curious. Why would blacks want to live where they are obviously not wanted?

Jeez, whats the follow up to this? 'Hey Rev - why would blacks want to sit at the front of the bus anyways'

[Drummond]

Jeez, whats the follow up to this? 'Hey Rev - why would blacks want to sit at the front of the bus anyways'

But as I see it, Perianne asked a legitimate question.

Imagine yourself to be black, Noir. Why, then, would you single out a locality to live, where you understood yourself to not be wanted ? Why choose such an area ? For what reason ?

[Perianne]

Jeez, whats the follow up to this? 'Hey Rev - why would blacks want to sit at the front of the bus anyways'

Noir, you are silly. I would never say anything like that. Nor would I think it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jeez, whats the follow up to this? 'Hey Rev - why would blacks want to sit at the front of the bus anyways'

Not exactly, but you always seem to skew certain comments the way you prefer to read them IMHO.
THATS THE SOCIALIST IN YOU METHINKS.
Sad in my opinion but hey its your life not mine, so carry on.-Tyr

[Kathianne]

Rev, I meant no disrespect. I thought it was a simple question. There are places here in Lexington where white people are not welcome. The simple answer is to avoid those places. There are plenty of nice places where black people are welcome. I wondered why they would choose one of the most racist places to want to live.

It seems simple to me, people should be able to live where they choose to buy, as long as they are able to afford it. In order for this to be fair, they should have the ability to have a fair shot at education and employment based upon their abilities, work ethics, and experiences.

For many that 'fairness' wasn't available. While all barriers have not been eliminated, it's reasonable to argue that enough have been that the time for things like quotas is over. For one thing it smears those that have worked hard to achieve to being a token. It also sets up a culture of victimization for those that don't work hard and gives reason to those that claim reverse discrimination. There really needs to be a limit on what the government should do.

If we assume a level playing field, granted with acknowledging the shortcomings, it's not the minorities that should stay away, it's the people that live there that need to learn that when it comes to buying and selling, it's ability to pay that determines who your neighbors will be.

Here's a clue, if I can afford to buy the house next door to you, we probably have many things in common. We have income that's similar. In order to do that, we likely have similar work ethics and education. We share similar aspirations for our children and their futures. In order for them to have those futures, we likely share instilling the same expectations in their behaviors and achievements. This is true whether one lives in a million dollar home or in a trailer park.

[tailfins]

I'm one of the least racist members of my family. My Grandpa was an active Klansman, my aunt closed her diner in 1961 rather than serve colored people. By the time I was ten, I knew practically every racial and religious slur in the book. However, my hatred for Communists "crowded out" other hates. One can only hate so much!

[Noir]

Imagine yourself to be black, Noir.

I will do no such thing.
Some comments in this thread bewilder the mind.

[Kathianne]

But as I see it, Perianne asked a legitimate question.

Imagine yourself to be black, Noir. Why, then, would you single out a locality to live, where you understood yourself to not be wanted ? Why choose such an area ? For what reason ?

Because of its locations and schools? Because I can afford it and it provides what I want for my family?

[tailfins]

Jeez, whats the follow up to this? 'Hey Rev - why would blacks want to sit at the front of the bus anyways'

Of course one can buy a nice automobile and let blacks have the whole bus. Full-scale racists learn how to use self-help solutions.

[Jeff]

Because of its locations and schools? Because I can afford it and it provides what I want for my family?

Kat I believe that was the response Perianne was looking for, I don't believe she was being negative but seriously asking the question. For folks that never had to worry about where they where going to live or what schools they would send their kids to it is a honest question. If you never lived it then maybe she wasn't thinking that way at all. Just a hunch, but I don't believe she was meaning any disrespect by it.

[Kathianne]

Kat I believe that was the response Perianne was looking for, I don't believe she was being negative but seriously asking the question. For folks that never had to worry about where they where going to live or what schools they would send their kids to it is a honest question. If you never lived it then maybe she wasn't thinking that way at all. Just a hunch, but I don't believe she was meaning any disrespect by it.

I'm pretty sure I was responding to Drummond. I don't think I was disparaging anyone, didn't think so anyway.

[Jeff]

I'm pretty sure I was responding to Drummond. I don't think I was disparaging anyone, didn't think so anyway.

I apologize, I didn't mean to make it sound like you where, I just thought your reply was spot on and thought heck that is probably what Perianne was looking for, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[tailfins]

I'm pretty sure I was responding to Drummond. I don't think I was disparaging anyone, didn't think so anyway.

That's the thing about a message board. It's hard to notice who responds to who, resulting in a reply to an idea irrespective of who said it.

[Jeff]

That's the thing about a message board. It's hard to notice who responds to who, resulting in a reply to an idea irrespective of who said it.

No I seen her reply was to Drummond, as I said I just thought it was a good answer and the answer Perianne was probably looking for, my mistake, I worded it wrong, imagine that. :laugh:

[Perianne]

No I seen her reply was to Drummond, as I said I just thought it was a good answer and the answer Perianne was probably looking for, my mistake, I worded it wrong, imagine that. :laugh:

Jeff, you do fine, sir. I always enjoy reading your posts.

[Jeff]

Jeff, you do fine, sir. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you ma'am :thumb:

[revelarts]

Kat I believe that was the response Perianne was looking for, I don't believe she was being negative but seriously asking the question. For folks that never had to worry about where they where going to live or what schools they would send their kids to it is a honest question. If you never lived it then maybe she wasn't thinking that way at all. Just a hunch, but I don't believe she was meaning any disrespect by it.

That may be true, and that's part of the problem the "let them eat cake" kind of thinking. Poor and lower middle class whites often understand it better. if you scratch past the surface it's often more a class thing than race..

I don't want to paint to bad a picture here so add a lot of decent white people to the below but when i was kid in my home town there were "black areas" and "white areas" and schools we're segregated. and my father and his age group had a difficult time getting "good" jobs in higher paying professions an in management in the major firms. even many colleges had only begun to have a fair amount blacks move through them. The town paper I worked for in my 20s had OLD racist owners that wouldn't hire black managers, sales people or even put a black receptionist at the front counter. I met a prominent lawyer in the area in my late 20s and he told me how difficult they use to make it for black lawyers and others in the area. I worked with old white guys at the newpaer that had worked in the big shipyard in the 60s n 70s and told all the crap that the black workers took at the shipyard. both my grandfathers worked there from WW2 till retired and told me a few things as well.

So people were already putting up with plenty of BS to just get by and make more money.
once they got it they wanted to live where ever they wanted and not just be relegated to one area of town because of more racism.

when i said earlier " you mean living in america" that wasn't all a joke. Blacks at that time were already dealing with racism on a daily basis anyway. Moving NEXT door to more racist wasn't always a huge deterrent or some NEW Shock. (oH my Goodness! some white people don't like me because i'm black! Sheesh yeah uh been there ) Back then they had to deal with racism everyday anyway , so if moving to nice home they liked meant you had to put up with a little more bs well, Ok that's part of the price of living in america for blacks. especially at that time... not so very long ago. At least where i lived.

I guess being in the majority makes it hard to imagine that as a minority you just can't AVOID all the racist people you've just got to deal with them. Most blacks at that point just acknowledged the racism and just try to work past it without becoming bitter. Jesus (and MLK repeated) that we should all try to LOVE past it but it's not easy. or the 1st reaction.

[revelarts]

I'm one of the least racist members of my family. My Grandpa was an active Klansman, my aunt closed her diner in 1961 rather than serve colored people. By the time I was ten, I knew practically every racial and religious slur in the book. However, my hatred for Communists "crowded out" other hates. One can only hate so much!

that's kind of incredible to me.

"One can only hate so much"
amen exactly! Hate is hard work.

i don't think humans are really built for it.
we're built to love God and others.
the foundational reason why racism is counter productive to humanity.

[Perianne]

That may be true, and that's part of the problem the "let them eat cake" kind of thinking. Poor and lower middle class whites often understand it better. if you scratch past the surface it's often more a class thing than race..

I don't want to paint to bad a picture here so add a lot of decent white people to the below but when i was kid in my home town there were "black areas" and "white areas" and schools we're segregated. and my father and his age group had a difficult time getting "good" jobs in higher paying professions an in management in the major firms. even many colleges had only begun to have a fair amount blacks move through them. The town paper I worked for in my 20s had OLD racist owners that wouldn't hire black managers, sales people or even put a black receptionist at the front counter. I met a prominent lawyer in the area in my late 20s and he told me how difficult they use to make it for black lawyers and others in the area. I worked with old white guys at the newpaer that had worked in the big shipyard in the 60s n 70s and told all the crap that the black workers took at the shipyard. both my grandfathers worked there from WW2 till retired and told me a few things as well.

So people were already putting up with plenty of BS to just get by and make more money.
once they got it they wanted to live where ever they wanted and not just be relegated to one area of town because of more racism.

when i said earlier " you mean living in america" that wasn't all a joke. Blacks at that time were already dealing with racism on a daily basis anyway. Moving NEXT door to more racist wasn't always a huge deterrent or some NEW Shock. (oH my Goodness! some white people don't like me because i'm black! Sheesh yeah uh been there ) Back then they had to deal with racism everyday anyway , so if moving to nice home they liked meant you had to put up with a little more bs well, Ok that's part of the price of living in america for blacks. especially at that time... not so very long ago. At least where i lived.

I guess being in the majority makes it hard to imagine that as a minority you just can't AVOID all the racist people you've just got to deal with them. Most blacks at that point just acknowledged the racism and just try to work past it without becoming bitter. Jesus (and MLK repeated) that we should all try to LOVE past it but it's not easy. or the 1st reaction.

Rev, the way you and your family were treated was wrong. Dead wrong. Everyone should have a chance to show what they are and what they can do.

[jimnyc]

Jeff owned a few slaves up until a few years ago. They're a little slow on the news in Georgia. :coffee:

I honestly can't think of any out and out racists from our extended family. Our immediate family? Nope. Got my ass kicked pretty good by BOTH parents when I was real young for repeating the N word. None of that was happening in our family. But yeah, we're human and we've all likely used the word before. But saying a word, and ACTIONS, are much different. We grew up in an area with quite a few black folks, and our school as well. The idea of "separate" was not acceptable in NJ. I'm cool and glad for that.

Seriously, when I go south to see Jeff, or my Dad, I seem to deal with more black folks than I do with white folks. Stores, restaurants, regular stores, businesses... Seemed to be that way anyway. And also the kindest people you would ever want to meet. I don't know why, just seems like the black folks are so much nicer the farther south you go. I'd like to live in the south just for the cool/kind people alone.

[revelarts]

Rev, the way you and your family were treated was wrong. Dead wrong. Everyone should have a chance to show what they are and what they can do.

My parents and grandparents had it FAR tougher than i every had. My father started his own biz to bypass some of the issues. I've never been on the look out for bad or racist treatment and and as far as i know i've never been turned away from work because of my color. But i do know for sure 1 good friend and a couple of acquaintances who have been. literally told that's was the reason by others at the biz. but it seems my good friend has also been hired BECAUSE he was black at one job.

strange world

[revelarts]

Jeff owned a few slaves up until a few years ago. They're a little slow on the news in Georgia.
:coffee:

:laugh:,

that flag had them confused
:dunno:

[Perianne]

My parents and grandparents had it FAR tougher than i every had. My father started his own biz to bypass some of the issues. I've never been on the look out for bad or racist treatment and and as far as i know i've never been turned away from work because of my color. But i do know for sure 1 good friend and a couple of acquaintances who have been. literally told that's was the reason by others at the biz. but it seems my good friend has also been hired BECAUSE he was black at one job.

strange world

If you don't mind saying, what type of work did/do you do?

[revelarts]

If you don't mind saying, what type of work did/do you do?


Graphic Designer Art Director

[fj1200]

But as I see it, Perianne asked a legitimate question.

Imagine yourself to be black, Noir. Why, then, would you single out a locality to live, where you understood yourself to not be wanted ? Why choose such an area ? For what reason ?

Is a defense of Jim Crow laws next?


Noir, you are silly. I would never say anything like that. Nor would I think it.

But that's the next step.


Not exactly, but you always seem to skew certain comments the way you prefer to read them IMHO.
THATS THE SOCIALIST IN YOU METHINKS.
Sad in my opinion but hey its your life not mine, so carry on.-Tyr

It doesn't take a Socialist to identify flaws in reasoning.

[Perianne]

But that's the next step.


fj, I have never ridden a bus, so I would not be in the position to ask anyone to sit in the back.

Well, actually, I rode a tour bus while visiting New York City. They let people sit wherever they wanted to sit.

[fj1200]

fj, I have never ridden a bus, so I would not be in the position to ask anyone to sit in the back.

Well, actually, I rode a tour bus while visiting New York City. They let people sit wherever they wanted to sit.

That's awesome. I'm going to go out on a limb and make two guesses. It's not the 1950's and you're not black. Let me know if either of those are wrong. :)

[jimnyc]

Graphic Designer Art Director

I'll keep that in mind the next time we need to graphics done for the site. :)

[jimnyc]

:laugh:,

that flag had them confused
:dunno:

Time warp! Jeff saw all the flags, then read wikipedia to see what they were all about, and then he went to FJ's house and bought himself a few slaves!! :)

Hell, probably offensive to some, but certainly not intended to do so... I told my wife many times that the reason we had a kid was to have a little slave. I was tired of the vacuuming and dishes and other chores. :) She gets angry with me when I say stuff like that. But the "color" thing never enters my mind, I'm just looking to get out of some work!! (and it backfires and I get more work!)

[fj1200]

^Only the middle man. Too much risk in product. :scared:

[jimnyc]

^Only the middle man. Too much risk in product. :scared:

Can still be charged with conspiracy under the RICO act and spend life behind bars, maybe even in the same cell as Jared!!

[fj1200]

Can still be charged with conspiracy under the RICO act and spend life behind bars, maybe even in the same cell as Jared!!

I didn't not know nothin'.

[Abbey Marie]

Time warp! Jeff saw all the flags, then read wikipedia to see what they were all about, and then he went to FJ's house and bought himself a few slaves!! :)

Hell, probably offensive to some, but certainly not intended to do so... I told my wife many times that the reason we had a kid was to have a little slave. I was tired of the vacuuming and dishes and other chores. :) She gets angry with me when I say stuff like that. But the "color" thing never enters my mind, I'm just looking to get out of some work!! (and it backfires and I get more work!)

Historically, there were tons of non-black slaves all over the world. The "Slavs" for example. Not to mention the Jews. So it makes sense.

[Kathianne]

I apologize, I didn't mean to make it sound like you where, I just thought your reply was spot on and thought heck that is probably what Perianne was looking for, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Was definitely a misunderstanding. Sorry!

[Drummond]

I will do no such thing.
Some comments in this thread bewilder the mind.

Oh dear. You've an aversion to doing so, then ?

Care to explain ?

[Drummond]

That's awesome. I'm going to go out on a limb and make two guesses. It's not the 1950's and you're not black. Let me know if either of those are wrong. :)

Actually, you've identified (probably entirely accidentally ?) what's chiefly the problem with the basis for this thread. Attitudes, language involved, are specific to the age they belong to.

I can say that neither of my parents' families were racist. But that didn't stop my grandmother frequently referring to 'darkies'. Why ? Because context was (still is) a relevant factor. Skin colour, in the days she grew up in and when opinions were formulated, was a way of identifying those who were introducing change in society.

In the UK, we had a large influx of - especially - West Indians arrive, in the 1950's. They brought much social change with them. And, as is so often the case, people resent change when they feel they're just 'stuck' with it, and aren't wholly masters of their fate.

Racism isn't involved. Wanting your own culture, and your 'way', to continue, just because you have your own identity and want to identify with a familiar environment, IS.

I call that 'being human'.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Historically, there were tons of non-black slaves all over the world. The "Slavs" for example. Not to mention the Jews. So it makes sense.

Southern white sharecroppers were actually as close to slavery as one could get without being owned ....
Vast majority of them worked themselves to death just to be able to feed and clothe their family.-Tyr

[Noir]

Oh dear. You've an aversion to doing so, then ?

Care to explain ?

Anything that involves putting yourself in a position you could not understand is probably best to be left alone.

[Drummond]

Anything that involves putting yourself in a position you could not understand is probably best to be left alone.

I don't understand. You are a human being, as are they. What's so very difficult for you ?

Are you suggesting a degree of difference that you cannot bridge ?

[gabosaurus]

My paternal grandfather was a typical Southern racist of the 60's. He was more conservative that you can imagine. He thought Reagan was a "liberal California hippie." Lyndon Johnson was "n-- loving traitor to the state of Texas." His views of Carter and Clinton are not suitable for family viewing. :eek:
Who did he like? Daddy Bush (though GW Bush was a "ignorant spineless coward"), George Wallace and Strom Thurmond.

[fj1200]

Racism isn't involved. Wanting your own culture, and your 'way', to continue, just because you have your own identity and want to identify with a familiar environment, IS.

I call that 'being human'.

You can't make that blanket statement. If racism is involve then racism is involved. Wanting "your own culture" and "your way" can easily be racist depending on the underlying beliefs... hence the actual definition of racism. Making statements like "why would blacks want to be where they aren't wanted" belies an underlying questionable belief.

It may be "being human" but it doesn't mean there is no racism.

[revelarts]

You can't make that blanket statement. If racism is involve then racism is involved. Wanting "your own culture" and "your way" can easily be racist depending on the underlying beliefs... hence the actual definition of racism. Making statements like "why would blacks want to be where they aren't wanted" belies an underlying questionable belief.

It may be "being human" but it doesn't mean there is no racism.

"your own culture" is the problem phrase i think.

Frankly it seems to me that many who use that phrase mean "my race". If blacks, browns and asians had the same "cultural" views honoring western values ... only differing in taste in food or clothing.... I suspect if the gov't, top positions in biz and entertainment in the west were filled with culturally western non-whites many "our own culture" whites would not be happy.
Drummond may not fall into that group though.

[fj1200]

"your own culture" is the problem phrase i think.

Frankly it seems to me that many who use that phrase mean "my race". If blacks, browns and asians had the same "cultural" views honoring western values ... only differing in taste in food or clothing.... I suspect if the gov't, top positions in biz and entertainment in the west were filled with culturally western non-whites many "our own culture" whites would not be happy.
Drummond may not fall into that group though.

We can only determine beliefs by words and actions and when those words and actions bring into question then people shouldn't be surprised by being called out.

[Noir]

I don't understand. You are a human being, as are they. What's so very difficult for you ?

Are you suggesting a degree of difference that you cannot bridge ?

This is not overly easy to convey in text...

I think that if you think you understand what it means 'to be black' then you are missing what it is 'to be black' because the experience itself is not something you can experience.

This is not from a failure of empathy on my part, but rather an acceptance of a disconnection in the state of reality between my position, and my position 'as a black man'.

[Drummond]

Between the two of you, Revelarts and FJ, you're exercising a bog-standard form of Leftie thinking (.. I have warned you about that before, FJ .. that, in continuing to post, you'd reveal that truth ..) ...

'If racism is involved' .. well, IT ISN'T. I find it offensive that by daring to talk about 'my culture' and my wish to identify with it, there must be any attempt made to tag that 'racist'.

Definition of 'racism' ...

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=defintion%20of%20racism


racism

noun

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

"theories of racism"

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

'Inferior or superior' is not even under discussion, not by me, at any rate. Neither am I specifically discussing race, when it comes to the process of preferring to identify with a culture !!

NO. Such attempts at demonisation are typically LEFTIE in origin. I should know, as it's the UK's own LEFTIES that tried their damndest to redefine the issue, so that it would be demonised as racist !!

British culture is different to American culture. French culture differs to British culture, or German culture, etc ...

In stating that, how am I being RACIST ? Cultural differences occur between nationalities, irrespective of race. The Left's attempt to demonise such perceptions into something they basically AREN'T, just testifies to the Left's shabbiness.

[Perianne]

fj, I have never ridden a bus, so I would not be in the position to ask anyone to sit in the back.

Well, actually, I rode a tour bus while visiting New York City. They let people sit wherever they wanted to sit.


That's awesome. I'm going to go out on a limb and make two guesses. It's not the 1950's and you're not black. Let me know if either of those are wrong. :)

How does anything you said have anything to do with what I said? I think you enjoy picking at what people say.

Whether it is the 1950s or whenever, buses are icky and I won't ride one.

[Perianne]

Between the two of you, Revelarts and FJ, you're exercising a bog-standard form of Leftie thinking (.. I have warned you about that before, FJ .. that, in continuing to post, you'd reveal that truth ..) ...

'If racism is involved' .. well, IT ISN'T. I find it offensive that by daring to talk about 'my culture' and my wish to identify with it, there must be any attempt made to tag that 'racist'.

Definition of 'racism' ...

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=defintion%20of%20racism



'Inferior or superior' is not even under discussion, not by me, at any rate. Neither am I specifically discussing race, when it comes to the process of preferring to identify with a culture !!

NO. Such attempts at demonisation are typically LEFTIE in origin. I should know, as it's the UK's own LEFTIES that tried their damndest to redefine the issue, so that it would be demonised as racist !!

British culture is different to American culture. French culture differs to British culture, or German culture, etc ...

In stating that, how am I being RACIST ? Cultural differences occur between nationalities, irrespective of race. The Left's attempt to demonise such perceptions into something they basically AREN'T, just testifies to the Left's shabbiness.

Everything is racism to some people.

[fj1200]

Between the two of you, Revelarts and FJ, you're exercising a bog-standard form of Leftie thinking (.. I have warned you about that before, FJ .. that, in continuing to post, you'd reveal that truth ..) ...

I see you've given up and Rev and I have won already.


'If racism is involved' .. well, IT ISN'T. I find it offensive that by daring to talk about 'my culture' and my wish to identify with it, there must be any attempt made to tag that 'racist'.

Definition of 'racism' ...

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=defintion%20of%20racism

'Inferior or superior' is not even under discussion, not by me, at any rate. Neither am I specifically discussing race, when it comes to the process of preferring to identify with a culture !!

NO. Such attempts at demonisation are typically LEFTIE in origin. I should know, as it's the UK's own LEFTIES that tried their damndest to redefine the issue, so that it would be demonised as racist !!

British culture is different to American culture. French culture differs to British culture, or German culture, etc ...

In stating that, how am I being RACIST ? Cultural differences occur between nationalities, irrespective of race. The Left's attempt to demonise such perceptions into something they basically AREN'T, just testifies to the Left's shabbiness.

Nobody said you were being racist, I said you couldn't make a blanket statement; You can speak for yourself but you can't speak for others. Speak to what we say, not what you've made up in your mind already.

[fj1200]

How does anything you said have anything to do with what I said? I think you enjoy picking at what people say.

Whether it is the 1950s or whenever, buses are icky and I won't ride one.

Context of the thread. And I enjoy picking apart poor logic and non-conservative thought. :)

Some folks have no other choice to ride a bus.


Everything is racism to some people.

Agreed. But even racism is not racism to some people.

[Kathianne]

"your own culture" is the problem phrase i think.

Frankly it seems to me that many who use that phrase mean "my race". If blacks, browns and asians had the same "cultural" views honoring western values ... only differing in taste in food or clothing.... I suspect if the gov't, top positions in biz and entertainment in the west were filled with culturally western non-whites many "our own culture" whites would not be happy.
Drummond may not fall into that group though.

I have to agree that 'culture' can be a buzz word for race, especially when used talking about keeping people from buying or selling in certain areas.

Like the terms we all carry-male: son; brother; husband; student; athlete; artist; etc. Each has a role, each has a culture that becomes part of the person. Some can even involve conflicts with other roles. The more roles, the more complicated the individual.

What seems to be missing from the discussion are the shared values that come with roles that may have nothing to do with sex, race: Economic attainment; education; work ethic; self-discipline; self-control.

While not absolute, for the most part people that share the above values, have more in common with each other than people that 'share the physical characteristics of themselves,' in general. This is true for better or worse.

Thus, those who may be born and raised in a lower socioeconomic bracket, may be raised or develop some or most of the value system held by those in a higher bracket. They are likely to move up to that bracket, has happened over and over again. That is the 'American Dream.' To go beyond the circumstances one is born into. It's the reason for those 'exceptions' that overcome their environments to start their own businesses or get accepted into all the Ivies. It also explains those born into every advantage, that turn to crime or addiction.

Expectations of parents greatly facilitate whether or not one 'dreams and achieves' beyond their circumstances. Indeed this is often why one sees the tales of immigrant families go from 'nothing when they got here, unable to speak English,' to having their own small business and raising 5 children whom excel in school and beyond. They are focused, often said to be 'driven.'

[Drummond]

I think that if you think you understand what it means 'to be black' then you are missing what it is 'to be black' because the experience itself is not something you can experience.

This is not from a failure of empathy on my part, but rather an acceptance of a disconnection in the state of reality between my position, and my position 'as a black man'.

But ... WHY ? What's that difficulty based on ?

I fail to see where any such difficulties can come from, as, it seems to me, the only thing getting in your way is that of racial difference.

Whether theirs, or yours ... the same applies.

I fail to see why it should. But, as it is evidently (.. here, anyway ..) your difficulty, I need you to explain the precise nature of the difficulty you're having ...

[Perianne]

Context of the thread. And I enjoy picking apart poor logic and non-conservative thought. :)

Some folks have no other choice to ride a bus.

Agreed. But even racism is not racism to some people.

Everyone I know has a car. I am not sure who rides buses.

[fj1200]

Everyone I know has a car. I am not sure who rides buses.

Clearly buses only exist in large cities as tourist transportation vehicles. :rolleyes:

[Perianne]

Clearly buses only exist in large cities as tourist transportation vehicles. :rolleyes:

No, we have a public transportation system here. It's call Lextran. It is yet another thing for my taxes to go for. I never look to see who is in them.

[Drummond]

Nobody said you were being racist, I said you couldn't make a blanket statement;

Don't kid yourself. I don't care how many of your truly appalling post rewrites you insist upon inflicting on those who so much as dare to make points you don't like to see .. if I want to make points I consider pertinent, I'll do so.


You can speak for yourself but you can't speak for others. Speak to what we say, not what you've made up in your mind already.

This is rich !! The tagging of 'racism' where it just DOESN'T APPLY, was not MY doing !! I've illustrated that racism is - as the word suggests ! - RACE SPECIFIC, and that culture IS NOT.

You're trying to insist on applying an association that, in truth, does not exist. I don't care how Leftie you insist upon being, this sort of thinking is YOUR problem, YOUR invention, not mine !!

[fj1200]

No, we have a public transportation system here. It's call Lextran. It is yet another thing for my taxes to go for. I never look to see who is in them.

Of course not.

[Drummond]

Everything is racism to some people.

... but especially Lefties, since they have an agenda to advance.

Our own Lefties, in my part of the world, proved that most conclusively.

[Drummond]

Of course not.

I'm not following. MUST she do so ?

[tailfins]

Don't kid yourself. I don't care how many of your truly appalling post rewrites you insist upon inflicting on those who so much as dare to make points you don't like to see .. if I want to make points I consider pertinent, I'll do so.



This is rich !! The tagging of 'racism' where it just DOESN'T APPLY, was not MY doing !! I've illustrated that racism is - as the word suggests ! - RACE SPECIFIC, and that culture IS NOT.

You're trying to insist on applying an association that, in truth, does not exist. I don't care how Leftie you insist upon being, this sort of thinking is YOUR problem, YOUR invention, not mine !!

Anything that doesn't promote social justice is racism because social injustice disproportionately affects people of color. :badsnort:

[Noir]

But ... WHY ? What's that difficulty based on ?

I fail to see where any such difficulties can come from, as, it seems to me, the only thing getting in your way is that of racial difference.

Whether theirs, or yours ... the same applies.

I fail to see why it should. But, as it is evidently (.. here, anyway ..) your difficulty, I need you to explain the precise nature of the difficulty you're having ...

and thus we are at an impasse. I described the difficulties as best my words could, if you can not gather my thouughts from that then communication has failed us, but i'm not going to clutter the thread trying to reword and rework a sentence that (in so far as I can construct) is already as clear as I can make it.

[fj1200]

Don't kid yourself. I don't care how many of your truly appalling post rewrites you insist upon inflicting on those who so much as dare to make points you don't like to see .. if I want to make points I consider pertinent, I'll do so.

Your points are not pertinent, they are whiny trolling and avoidance of actual debate.


This is rich !! The tagging of 'racism' where it just DOESN'T APPLY, was not MY doing !! I've illustrated that racism is - as the word suggests ! - RACE SPECIFIC, and that culture IS NOT.

You're trying to insist on applying an association that, in truth, does not exist. I don't care how Leftie you insist upon being, this sort of thinking is YOUR problem, YOUR invention, not mine !!

Try keeping the discussion relevant to the points. Where it doesn't apply is your opinion. Slave-owners I'm sure advocated for their culture but it didn't make them any less racist. FWIW I didn't tag racism to culture; I tag racism to beliefs about race.

[Drummond]

I have to agree that 'culture' can be a buzz word for race, especially when used talking about keeping people from buying or selling in certain areas.

Like the terms we all carry-male: son; brother; husband; student; athlete; artist; etc. Each has a role, each has a culture that becomes part of the person. Some can even involve conflicts with other roles. The more roles, the more complicated the individual.

What seems to be missing from the discussion are the shared values that come with roles that may have nothing to do with sex, race: Economic attainment; education; work ethic; self-discipline; self-control.

While not absolute, for the most part people that share the above values, have more in common with each other than people that 'share the physical characteristics of themselves,' in general. This is true for better or worse.

Thus, those who may be born and raised in a lower socioeconomic bracket, may be raised or develop some or most of the value system held by those in a higher bracket. They are likely to move up to that bracket, has happened over and over again. That is the 'American Dream.' To go beyond the circumstances one is born into. It's the reason for those 'exceptions' that overcome their environments to start their own businesses or get accepted into all the Ivies. It also explains those born into every advantage, that turn to crime or addiction.

Expectations of parents greatly facilitate whether or not one 'dreams and achieves' beyond their circumstances. Indeed this is often why one sees the tales of immigrant families go from 'nothing when they got here, unable to speak English,' to having their own small business and raising 5 children whom excel in school and beyond. They are focused, often said to be 'driven.'

Simple fact: 'culture' can be a buzz-word for 'race', by those choosing to SUBVERT the issue for their own (invariably Left wing) purposes. They aren't the same thing. At all.

[revelarts]

This is not overly easy to convey in text...

I think that if you think you understand what it means 'to be black' then you are missing what it is 'to be black' because the experience itself is not something you can experience.

This is not from a failure of empathy on my part, but rather an acceptance of a disconnection in the state of reality between my position, and my position 'as a black man'.

From my POV I have to say it seems that some on the left make this out to be more than what it is. while some on the right make to little of it.

we're all human beings. and if we try we can have some empathy --to our own degrees-- with other people in various circumstances.

A Jew raised in Iran has an experience of life that I really don't have clue about but if i take some time i can get a real sense of it if i honestly listen to their stories.

IMO some of the problem in the west Black v White on the issue is that many whites don't like to admit to the differences in life experience because it implies --in their minds-- some personal or collective fault. So there's a bit of knee jerk rejection of the idea that's their much of anything different, much less wrong. At least that can't be quickly explained away by blacks doing more "hard work" and having "good morals" alone.

"a lot of blacks always throw ' you don't know what it's like to be a black man' in our faces." is something i've heard before. My reply is ok 'always' really? And, is what every white guy shouts on the street corner completely true as well?
Maybe we all shouldn't be so defensive and try to see why someone says something and see if there may be some truth there? rather than just being ready to deny or fight about it.

[fj1200]

I'm not following. MUST she do so ?

Of course not.

[fj1200]

Simple fact: 'culture' can be a buzz-word for 'race', by those choosing to SUBVERT the issue for their own (invariably Left wing) purposes. They aren't the same thing. At all.

Did anyone suggest as much?

[fj1200]

Maybe we all shouldn't be so defensive and try to see why someone says something and see if there may be some truth there? rather than just being ready to deny or fight about it.

Truf.

[revelarts]

Simple fact: 'culture' can be a buzz-word for 'race', by those choosing to SUBVERT the issue for their own (invariably Left wing) purposes. They aren't the same thing. At all.

By the left and the right Drummond

[Drummond]

Your points are not pertinent, they are whiny trolling and avoidance of actual debate.

Ah, some abuse. Thanks. I must've made a good point, then.


Try keeping the discussion relevant to the points.

I DID THAT. You were the one trying to redefine the meaning of 'culture difference', as something it definitely IS NOT.


Where it doesn't apply is your opinion. Slave-owners I'm sure advocated for their culture but it didn't make them any less racist.

Immaterial, since the two are different issues. Slave owners were racist, because they WERE racist.


FWIW I didn't tag racism to culture;

Really ? Your own words ...


Wanting "your own culture" and "your way" can easily be racist depending on the underlying beliefs... hence the actual definition of racism.
Care to rethink that one ? Maybe ..... even quote your comment, duly CROSSED OUT, as is your abusive habit, FJ ?

Here, we have an example of where it can be a pertinent action !!

[Perianne]

Back to the original question... there are no racists in my family.

[Kathianne]

Simple fact: 'culture' can be a buzz-word for 'race', by those choosing to SUBVERT the issue for their own (invariably Left wing) purposes. They aren't the same thing. At all.
When using 'culture' as a means of encouraging those of a different 'culture' to seek out housing or jobs or schools to 'where they are wanted, as opposed to where they are not,' it is racism-especially when 'culture' is being used as skin color.

[Perianne]

When using 'culture' as a means of encouraging those of a different 'culture' to seek out housing or jobs or schools to 'where they are wanted, as opposed to where they are not,' it is racism-especially when 'culture' is being used as skin color.

Maybe it's not racism. Maybe the neighbors want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood. I can understand that.

[Drummond]

and thus we are at an impasse. I described the difficulties as best my words could, if you can not gather my thouughts from that then communication has failed us, but i'm not going to clutter the thread trying to reword and rework a sentence that (in so far as I can construct) is already as clear as I can make it.

More to the point, you've dug yourself a hole, leaped into it without thinking, and now cannot think your way out of it.

[Kathianne]

Maybe it's not racism. Maybe the neighbors want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood. I can understand that.

If a family can afford the home they have every right to purchase it. If the 'neighbors' want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood, they'll be neighborly and find the commonalities with the newcomers. If instead they see their differences-which by the very nature is admitting to 'physical differences' and be anti-social, they will bring down their own neighborhood.

Considering that you are saying 'maintain' you must find that desirable?

[Perianne]

If a family can afford the home they have every right to purchase it. If the 'neighbors' want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood, they'll be neighborly and find the commonalities with the newcomers. If instead they see their differences-which by the very nature is admitting to 'physical differences' and be anti-social, they will bring down their own neighborhood.

Considering that you are saying 'maintain' you must find that desirable?

It's not what the neighbors do. It's what potential buyers might think.

[Drummond]

Of course not.

Oh, good !!

[Kathianne]

It's not what the neighbors do. It's what potential buyers might think.

That is not a concern to those that choose to live where they live. Of course if your 'culture' says that you can't live near someone of a different 'culture' you may think of fleeing. Question is, what about the next place and the different 'culture' already there or that can also buy there? Oh my!

Again, the price of housing is based upon things like schools, location, construction, amenities. Those that buy into an area share similar values and economic attainment. It's not only 'the poor,' but also the middle class and higher.

[Drummond]

If a family can afford the home they have every right to purchase it. If the 'neighbors' want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood, they'll be neighborly and find the commonalities with the newcomers. If instead they see their differences-which by the very nature is admitting to 'physical differences' and be anti-social, they will bring down their own neighborhood.

Considering that you are saying 'maintain' you must find that desirable?

This is interesting. Kathianne, you're doing a whole lot of 'decreeing' what must be considered 'right' or 'wrong' acceptable communal behaviour. And, for what .. to conform to a PC imperative ?

How about .. selling a home to who you CHOOSE to sell it to ?

Just thought I'd make that suggestion .....

[Kathianne]

This is interesting. Kathianne, you're doing a whole lot of 'decreeing' what must be considered 'right' or 'wrong' acceptable communal behaviour. And, for what .. to conform to a PC imperative ?

How about .. selling a home to who you CHOOSE to sell it to ?

Just thought I'd make that suggestion .....

You have a home to sell, you don't want to live in it any longer, you want someplace else. So do you take less from someone who does want your home, because they share your 'culture?' I can see if it's your relative, but in general you're leaving the neighborhood, right? So you want to talk about 'culture' instead of 'race?' That's where the buzz word is relevant.

Now if some 'liberal' is playing at 'changing culture' in an area and buys to sell at a low ball price to others of a different 'culture' that is just the same, in reverse. That is what government intrusions are about. I'm against that too.

[tailfins]

It's not what the neighbors do. It's what potential buyers might think.

Simple solution: Restrict where people can buy. Don't allow the deed to process if the transaction doesn't enhance the neighborhood's racial balance.

[revelarts]

It's not what the neighbors do. It's what potential buyers might think.
then "what potential buyers might think" is just racist. if the property is quality and the neighborhood seems nice BEFORE they noticed a black family living there then the people are just racist if they change their outlook.

the VALUE of the home or neighborhood has not gone down. Only the negative thinking about blacks have lowered the value their own deluded minds.

[Kathianne]

Simple solution: Restrict where people can buy. Don't allow the deed to process if the transaction doesn't enhance the neighborhood's racial balance.

racist codicils on deeds are illegal.

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyHd18a8ajA

[tailfins]

racist codicils on deeds are illegal.

Such a thing would happen at the recorder of deeds level, monitored by that Federal government as a remedial measure. This could even be extended to rentals, requiring all counties to require occupancy permits where the permit would only be approved if it enhances the racial balance. Kathianne, I tip my hat to you for not thinking like a totalitarian. I'm illustrating the logical conclusion of "housing justice" (aka housing for "just us").

[Drummond]

You have a home to sell, you don't want to live in it any longer, you want someplace else. So do you take less from someone who does want your home, because they share your 'culture?' I can see if it's your relative, but in general you're leaving the neighborhood, right? So you want to talk about 'culture' instead of 'race?' That's where the buzz word is relevant.

You're assuming a lot in the scenario you're painting. OK, well .. apart from the fact that if a house-seller wants to determine a price of their choice, and sell accordingly, why is that wrong ?? .. consider .....

You live in a small town, or village. It has its own culture, one the 'locals' are happy with, want to preserve.

Along comes someone, who wants to buy a property because s/he likes the look of it, and is looking to move anyway. Let's say that the person is very young, obviously into very loud rock music, loud parties, and has cultural beliefs that, say, identify with those of a society located elsewhere on the planet. You, as the seller, get into conversation, and you quickly realise that the CULTURAL differences the potential buyer have very little to do with what anyone in the neighbourhood would want, or even choose, to tolerate ... given a chance to act against it.

The buyer may be of EXACTLY the same race as the seller. Nonetheless, there'd be a serious clash of culture involved. If you sell to that person, you sell to someone who, you know, will change the cultural environment of the neighbourhood for the worse, maybe turning the neighbours' quality of life into a perceived hell.

Perhaps some passing Leftie could explain ... how does the act of not selling, in that scenario, involve RACISM ??

And, why SHOULDN'T the community want to, and be able to choose to, PRESERVE THEIR LOCAL CULTURE ? Because ... Lefties want to apply some dictatorial, arbitrary application of a PC directive, one demonising the whole thing as 'racist' .. ?


Now if some 'liberal' is playing at 'changing culture' in an area and buys to sell at a low ball price to others of a different 'culture' that is just the same, in reverse. That is what government intrusions are about. I'm against that too.

More to the point, what you describe would be attempted by a LEFTIE Government. It's the intention, rather than the method, that's wrong.

[Kathianne]

You're assuming a lot in the scenario you're painting. OK, well .. apart from the fact that if a house-seller wants to determine a price of their choice, and sell accordingly, why is that wrong ?? .. consider .....

You live in a small town, or village. It has its own culture, one the 'locals' are happy with, want to preserve.

Along comes someone, who wants to buy a property because s/he likes the look of it, and is looking to move anyway. Let's say that the person is very young, obviously into very loud rock music, loud parties, and has cultural beliefs that, say, identify with those of a society located elsewhere on the planet. You, as the seller, get into conversation, and you quickly realise that the CULTURAL differences the potential buyer have very little to do with what anyone in the neighbourhood would want, or even choose, to tolerate ... given a chance to act against it.

The buyer may be of EXACTLY the same race as the seller. Nonetheless, there'd be a serious clash of culture involved. If you sell to that person, you sell to someone who, you know, will change the cultural environment of the neighbourhood for the worse, maybe turning the neighbours' quality of life into a perceived hell.

Perhaps some passing Leftie could explain ... how does the act of not selling, in that scenario, involve RACISM ??

And, why SHOULDN'T the community want to, and be able to choose to, PRESERVE THEIR LOCAL CULTURE ? Because ... Lefties want to apply some dictatorial, arbitrary application of a PC directive, one demonising the whole thing as 'racist' .. ?



More to the point, what you describe would be attempted by a LEFTIE Government. It's the intention, rather than the method, that's wrong.

Drummond, your whole 'leftie' use is way old. No matter how you twist, I'm not. You are doing what you project onto me, see bolded above. Thanks for playing.

[Drummond]

Drummond, your whole 'leftie' use is way old. No matter how you twist, I'm not. You are doing what you project onto me, see bolded above. Thanks for playing.

Kathianne, where did I accuse you of being a Leftie ?

Track back in this thread, Kathianne, and observe who's thanked who for their posts. For example, post #73 .. you had two thank you who, shall we say, exhibit a certain 'Left-friendly' thinking in their own postings. I'm not accusing. I'm observing, and, I'm observing accurately.

I dare to think that I can do that.

It's in the nature of what they do, how they operate, and the product of it all, which helps skew a brand of thinking from a Right to a Left direction. In my society, many think David Cameron to be unacceptably Right wing. In yours, he'd be regarded by some as unacceptably LEFT wing. David C strongly supports our NHS, for example, which is a rather more and LEFTIE version of Obamacare. David C is pro-gay marriage. Again, THE LEFT in your country would identify with this, and claim it as a Left-wing attitude and approach.

Now, what separates UK society, or (dare I say it) our CULTURE, enough to account for such a change, or skewing ?

It's easy.

We, in the UK, have taken SEVERAL DECADES of Left-wing chip-chip-chipping away at our values. Today, there are many people here who DO think themselves Right wing, though many Americans would sharply disagree. This is because, Kathianne, American society has NOT taken decades of Left-wing influence chip-chip-chipping away at ITS values.

What I'm saying is that Left-wing incursiveness is to some extent of a subliminal nature. It's gradual, thoughts and attitudes are changed imperceptibly without the person being aware of it. Some of our Conservatives would be your Lefties, BECAUSE such changes have been implemented, over a long time. And, our Conservatives would be extremely sure that it hasn't happened to them.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne, where did I accuse you of being a Leftie ?

Track back in this thread, Kathianne, and observe who's thanked who for their posts. For example, post #73 .. you had two thank you who, shall we say, exhibit a certain 'Left-friendly' thinking in their own postings. I'm not accusing. I'm observing, and, I'm observing accurately.

I dare to think that I can do that.

It's in the nature of what they do, how they operate, and the product of it all, which helps skew a brand of thinking from a Right to a Left direction. In my society, many think David Cameron to be unacceptably Right wing. In yours, he'd be regarded by some as unacceptably LEFT wing. David C strongly supports our NHS, for example, which is a rather more and LEFTIE version of Obamacare. David C is pro-gay marriage. Again, THE LEFT in your country would identify with this, and claim it as a Left-wing attitude and approach.

Now, what separates UK society, or (dare I say it) our CULTURE, enough to account for such a change, or skewing ?

It's easy.

We, in the UK, have taken SEVERAL DECADES of Left-wing chip-chip-chipping away at our values. Today, there are many people here who DO think themselves Right wing, though many Americans would sharply disagree. This is because, Kathianne, American society has NOT taken decades of Left-wing influence chip-chip-chipping away at ITS values.

What I'm saying is that Left-wing incursiveness is to some extent of a subliminal nature. It's gradual, thoughts and attitudes are changed imperceptibly without the person being aware of it. Some of our Conservatives would be your Lefties, BECAUSE such changes have been implemented, over a long time. And, our Conservatives would be extremely sure that it hasn't happened to them.

You just haven't been paying attention if you think the 'left' hasn't been making huge inroads into the US 'culture.' Indeed, it's relentless. To say differently is to ignore our university issues and the acceptance of all being victims. The problem is that what the 'angry right' rails against aren't the real problems facing the country, but the symptoms.

[Drummond]

You just haven't been paying attention if you think the 'left' hasn't been making huge inroads into the US 'culture.' Indeed, it's relentless. To say differently is to ignore our university issues and the acceptance of all being victims. The problem is that what the 'angry right' rails against aren't the real problems facing the country, but the symptoms.

I note that you've had a 'Left-friendly' thinker thank you for that one.

But you're missing the point, to a degree, anyway. I'm not saying that what you describe isn't happening. I am saying that the Left's incursions, by comparison with what the UK has taken, is still in its infancy. I absolutely promise you that, as 'bad' as you think the Left are in America today, 'you ain't seen nothing yet', compared with what the UK has been seeing, for decades !!

Imagine pressure groups forming, politicians fighting, for social change .. that ends up introducing fully socialised medicine into America. Imagine The State being in absolute, dominant charge of almost all of medical care available in America ... decreeing what could, or could not, be permitted to be available to your citizens on grounds of cost to the State purse.

And .. imagine this. ALL the arguing, ALL the pressurising, ALL the administrative work involved, ALL the legislation required, ALL the building and infrastructure-creation necessary, had all been completed, and introduced, by decree ... in America .. by 1948.

And imagine an America where its citizens would be so completely accepting of their fate, today, that they regard it as 'uncivilised' to depart from such State dominance of something as very vital to their wellbeing, as this. Where no Conservative politician DARE oppose it all, without committing political suicide in the attempt !!

This, Kathianne, is just one example of where Socialism has totally and completely changed our thinking. It succeeded long ago. Can you seriously tell me that what I'm describing has made its comparable mark in America, today ???

I can cite you various other examples of skewed values favouring the Left, again, where our CONSERVATIVES have to buy into it all (e.g stringent gun controls, hatespeech legislation). But, do I need to ?

Face this fact. Socialist incursion is in its infancy, compared with the extremes of the UK. America can and MUST resist its further successes in America. It CAN and MUST do so, by not only getting the Democrats out of power, but KEEPING them out. Because if they retake power, all they'll do is take up where they left off, and re-begin their own chip-chip-chipping away at YOUR values.

[Kathianne]

I don't know if it's a failure to understand our politics or how 'left' and 'conservative' are defined between us, but Rev is far from 'left' nor for your info is FJ.

That you declare who is and isn't what they say, is more than presumptuous. Once again, I am conservative by any rational definition in US. That you don't think so, doesn't make it so.

[Black Diamond]

I note that you've had a 'Left-friendly' thinker thank you for that one.

.

He thanked me for liking high noon. I thanked Gaby for her post on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every once in a while there is agreement between those diametrically opposed to one another.

[Drummond]

I don't know if it's a failure to understand our politics or how 'left' and 'conservative' are defined between us, but Rev is far from 'left' nor for your info is FJ.

That you declare who is and isn't what they say, is more than presumptuous. Once again, I am conservative by any rational definition in US. That you don't think so, doesn't make it so.

OK, so be it. I'm clearly wasting my time.

[Kathianne]

OK, so be it. I'm clearly wasting my time.

Now if I was going to have a Drummond moment, I'd be giving a few of :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:, talk about how 'I've used my wonderful powers of logic to have you run away from what you cannot defend; luckily for you, I'm not like that.

(Gosh that felt good, must be how the Donald feels. No filters!)

[Drummond]

He thanked me for liking high noon. I thanked Gaby for her post on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every once in a while there is agreement between those diametrically opposed to one another.

Remarkable that it can happen. Still, wait and see .. you'll find that positions become more polarised with time, this mixed with the chip-chip-chipping away at belief-systems I've been describing.

I have no power to convince you that I'm right, unfortunately. I only know I am, from daily living a reality that I believe few Americans could imagine. When those of the Left pretend to be reasonable, I promise you, they're simply playing a 'long game'. Before you know it - and, in fact, you may never do so !! - your thoughts won't entirely be your own. You'll have taken on values which your reasoning convince you are 'right' ones, even though their origin may come from social pressures exerted over an extended time.

Here, the NHS is seen as a mark of a civilised society. Here, if you purposely want to own a gun, you're suspected of very possibly having something mentally wrong with you. Here, publicly speak out against (for example) Islam, and not only will you be branded bigoted or racist, but an 'offended Muslim' can get the police to act against you. Here, to legally watch any TV, you must, BY LAW, pay a 'license fee' .. much of which goes directly to our State broadcaster, itself riddled with Leftie biases .. but more, you must believe that in not doing this, you're acting like a criminal !!

Who ushered in ALL of this, into our Society ? 'Reasonable' Lefties .. that's who !

[fj1200]

Ah, some abuse. Thanks. I must've made a good point, then.

:facepalm: If you weren't a hypocrite it would be funny, as you are a hypocrite it's just sad.


IDIOT.


I DID THAT. You were the one trying to redefine the meaning of 'culture difference', as something it definitely IS NOT.

Quote please.


Immaterial, since the two are different issues. Slave owners were racist, because they WERE racist.

Of course, but it was also their culture. That's the point.


Really ? Your own words ...

Care to rethink that one ? Maybe ..... even quote your comment, duly CROSSED OUT, as is your abusive habit, FJ ?

Here, we have an example of where it can be a pertinent action !!

I was quoting you. You injected culture.

[fj1200]

Maybe it's not racism. Maybe the neighbors want to maintain the value of their homes and neighborhood. I can understand that.

And how do you suggest that they accomplish that?

[fj1200]

The buyer may be of EXACTLY the same race as the seller. Nonetheless, there'd be a serious clash of culture involved. If you sell to that person, you sell to someone who, you know, will change the cultural environment of the neighbourhood for the worse, maybe turning the neighbours' quality of life into a perceived hell.

Perhaps some passing Leftie could explain ... how does the act of not selling, in that scenario, involve RACISM ??

And, why SHOULDN'T the community want to, and be able to choose to, PRESERVE THEIR LOCAL CULTURE ?

It's not racist, you specifically excluded racism as a possibility. There are other ways to ensure "culture," noise ordinances and the like.

[Perianne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyHd18a8ajA


Oh my gosh. Jefferson is seriously racist!!!






I have no power to convince you that I'm right, unfortunately. I only know I am, from daily living a reality that I believe few Americans could imagine. When those of the Left pretend to be reasonable, I promise you, they're simply playing a 'long game'. Before you know it - and, in fact, you may never do so !! - your thoughts won't entirely be your own. You'll have taken on values which your reasoning convince you are 'right' ones, even though their origin may come from social pressures exerted over an extended time.



Drummond, I see our future. I hope you realize I am fighting the PC power as much as I can.

[Perianne]

It's not racist, you specifically excluded racism as a possibility. There are other ways to ensure "culture," noise ordinances and the like.

Why do white people NOT want blacks in their neighborhoods? Wouldn't it make sense that if blacks brought value to a neighborhood, they would be welcome?

[Kathianne]

Oh my gosh. Jefferson is seriously racist!!!







Drummond, I see our future. I hope you realize I am fighting the PC power as much as I can.

Perianne, I agree there are many racists of all colors and political stripes. The focus here tends towards the whites, because that's most of the posters here.

I do promise though, that if Rev starts posting racist stuff about killing all the whites like Sharpton does, I'll slam him as well.

[Kathianne]

Why do white people NOT want blacks in their neighborhoods? Wouldn't it make sense that if blacks brought value to a neighborhood, they would be welcome?

Wow, is that assbackwards.

It's not the new folks fleeing. It's those whose 'cultures' are being imperiled. If supply exceeds demand, prices fall.

There's laws against redlining you know.

[Kathianne]

Just when I think there's way too much made of racism, someone comes along to change my thinking. Then others applaud the racism and I know a reevaluation is in order.

[Drummond]

Oh my gosh. Jefferson is seriously racist!!!







Drummond, I see our future. I hope you realize I am fighting the PC power as much as I can.

I think I'll now have a 'Drummond moment', with .... :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

... because stalwarts such as yourself, people who truly realise the danger and aren't blind to it, are worth their weight in gold !!

God bless you, Perianne. America needs more like you !

[Perianne]

Wow, is that assbackwards.

It's not the new folks fleeing. It's those whose 'cultures' are being imperiled. If supply exceeds demand, prices fall.

There's laws against redlining you know.

I think we must be talking about two different things. I have no idea what the above means.

"If supply exceeds demand, prices fall." If the racial makeup of a neighborhood is not controlled, prices drop. Now that is a fact that is difficult to argue with.

[Perianne]

I think I'll now have a 'Drummond moment', with .... :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

... because stalwarts such as yourself, people who truly realise the danger and aren't blind to it, are worth their weight in gold !!

God bless you, Perianne. America needs more like you !

I know. And the odd thing is, I am only American because I came here. Certainly not American by birth.

[Kathianne]

I think we must be talking about two different things. I have no idea what the above means.

"If supply exceeds demand, prices fall." If the racial makeup of a neighborhood is not controlled, prices drop. Now that is a fact that is difficult to argue with.

There is no 'drop in prices' if folks stay in their homes. It's when everybody wants to 'run away' from the new 'culture' that too many houses for sale say 'desperate.' Fire sale anyone?

[Drummond]

I know. And the odd thing is, I am only American because I came here. Certainly not American by birth.

Well, I could easily be wrong in this .. but, maybe it's because you arrived in America, you have enough alertness in you, to be aware of what's possible ? A slight detachment that comes of being able to look 'in' to a culture and observe how people interact with it, which gives you a slightly bigger picture, so a better overall perspective ?

It's actually frightening to consider that there are probably millions of Conservatives out there, who really don't begin to comprehend that the Left are all about re-engineering attitudes and imperatives, so that they reshape society by reshaping the people within it.

In my society .. if you look at TV recordings going back to the 1970's, say, and compare what was THEN permitted and thought 'nothing of', compared with the mindset of today, that'd see it as 'wrong' .. you understand how much re-engineering must've happened in the intervening years.

And people just don't realise that this is happening to them.

There will come a time, UNLESS Americans can mount a resistance to it which the British FAILED to do, where the Left will have re-engineered people to the point where America will no longer BE America, AND, Americans themselves won't be aware of it !!

[Jeff]

Jeff owned a few slaves up until a few years ago. They're a little slow on the news in Georgia. :coffee:

I honestly can't think of any out and out racists from our extended family. Our immediate family? Nope. Got my ass kicked pretty good by BOTH parents when I was real young for repeating the N word. None of that was happening in our family. But yeah, we're human and we've all likely used the word before. But saying a word, and ACTIONS, are much different. We grew up in an area with quite a few black folks, and our school as well. The idea of "separate" was not acceptable in NJ. I'm cool and glad for that.

Seriously, when I go south to see Jeff, or my Dad, I seem to deal with more black folks than I do with white folks. Stores, restaurants, regular stores, businesses... Seemed to be that way anyway. And also the kindest people you would ever want to meet. I don't know why, just seems like the black folks are so much nicer the farther south you go. I'd like to live in the south just for the cool/kind people alone.

Who are you kidding I still have them cutting my grass and plowing the fields. :laugh::laugh::laugh: Yes that is a joke.

As for coming south , the north has way more racism that we have down here, don't get me wrong its here but not like up in the inner cities.

[tailfins]

Why do white people NOT want blacks in their neighborhoods? Wouldn't it make sense that if blacks brought value to a neighborhood, they would be welcome?

The solution is no-nonsense police departments. Let strict law enforcement and strict prosecution drive the undesirables out. I guess the "just-us" department could try to exert pressure to not prosecute certain perpetrators based on skin color. Let some home invasions and break-ins go un-prosecuted to compensate for past redlining. Some undesirables were talking loud and acting disorderly in front of an empty house next door. I called the cops who promptly carted them off; no fuss, no muss.

Maybe some heavy-handed policing is a price worth paying to keep our neighborhoods nice. I applaud Collin County police departments, especially the McKinney PD.

Perianne, thanks for your post! I will remember to appreciate a persnickety Homeowners Association when you remind me what the alternative is.

[fj1200]

Oh my gosh. Jefferson is seriously racist!!!

:laugh: Jefferson is the racist one!!!

[Perianne]

Oh my gosh. Jefferson is seriously racist!!!


:laugh: Jefferson is the racist one!!!

You just repeated what I said. I am happy you are coming around, sir!

[fj1200]

Why do white people NOT want blacks in their neighborhoods? Wouldn't it make sense that if blacks brought value to a neighborhood, they would be welcome?

1. The two of you should get on the same page; are you going to argue race or are you going to argue culture?
2. I am eagerly awaiting your answer. And then give us all an idea of how you would enforce such a stricture.

[fj1200]

You just repeated what I said. I am happy you are coming around, sir!

But I said it in an incredulous manner while laughing.