The Unknown (for you) War - 1979.

[Balu]

The Unknown War

The greatest battles of World War II, the most colossal encounters of military force,
the most devastating human losses which the modern world has ever seen, occurred on Russian soil during
1941-1945, on a battlefield that is unknown to most Americans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuuthpJmAig&list=PLfLzvgzsb9TifHZ7atjvqaLinfp1lfs3R

[Black Diamond]

Wasn't unknown to me. (Shrug)

[Drummond]

The Unknown War

The greatest battles of World War II, the most colossal encounters of military force,
the most devastating human losses which the modern world has ever seen, occurred on Russian soil during
1941-1945, on a battlefield that is unknown to most Americans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuuthpJmAig&list=PLfLzvgzsb9TifHZ7atjvqaLinfp1lfs3R

'Thank you', but Westerners are somewhat familiar with this, despite what you'd like to believe.

A couple of points:

1. It shouldn't be forgotten that, prior to this, Stalin entered into a pact with Hitler. They were ALLIES. The only reason they ceased to be allies was that Hitler reneged on that arrangement. Indeed, I understand that Stalin was initially shocked to discover he'd lost Hitler's 'comradeship' ... ?

2. Yes, I know Russia suffered quite a death toll. A question that occurs is, how did it stack up AGAINST THE SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE STALIN SLAUGHTERED, IN UKRAINE ??

You doubtless want us to feel sympathy, or at least 'understanding', about the Russian deaths of WWII. But, where's YOUR understanding, YOUR compassion, where all the past Ukrainian suffering and death is concerned ? Lost in your desire to heap abuse on present-day Ukraine, because she DARES to want, and to fight for, total independence from her Russian oppressors .. ???

If you have such a blind spot when it comes to Ukraine, would we be in our rights to develop any form of equivalent where Russia is concerned ? Or do you intend to maintain your double standards, come-what-may ?

[Drummond]

Wasn't unknown to me. (Shrug)

Nor to me. Over here in the UK, we've had documentaries on it appear on our TV.

I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't know something about this.

[Noir]

Forgive me for making a comment having only seen the opening minutes of the video, but is this 'unknown war' a reference to the war between Germany and Soviet Russia during World War Two?

[Drummond]

Forgive me for making a comment having only seen the opening minutes of the video, but is this 'unknown war' a reference to the war between Germany and Soviet Russia during World War Two?

Obviously so.

Balu seemingly thinks that we know nothing about it. I've no idea why he has such a belief.

[Black Diamond]

I think what may be unknown to many is the Red Army's rape of Germany.

[Noir]

Obviously so.

Balu seemingly thinks that we know nothing about it. I've no idea why he has such a belief.

Oh dear =/

Idk about the curriculum in the states Balu (though I assume it's similar), but in the UK you won't find a 16 year old who hasn't been through a course on World War Two, focusing on the Britsh, American, Russian, German, and Japanese forces.

[Drummond]

Since we have Burt Lancaster narrating / presenting the video Balu provides, I thought I'd do a bit of research on him ... considering that he seems to be offering some sort of supportive narrative for the Russian Communist State, in its struggle against Hitler.

Surprise, surprise. Turns out that Lancaster was a Leftie ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Lancaster


Lancaster was a vocal supporter of liberal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism) political causes, and frequently spoke out in support of racial minorities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_minorities), including at the March on Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom) in 1963. He was a vocal opponent of the Vietnam War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War) and political movements such asMcCarthyism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism), and he helped pay for the successful defense of a soldier accused of "fragging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging)" (murdering) another soldier during the war.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Lancaster#cite_note-16) In 1968, Lancaster actively supported the presidential candidacy of antiwar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiwar) Senator Eugene McCarthy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_McCarthy) of Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota), and frequently spoke on his behalf during the Democratic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)) primaries.

I expect that this is better known amongst people on this forum, than it was to me, until just minutes ago ? Regardless, this obviously explains Lancaster's involvement in a video such as this.

[Gunny]

The Unknown War

The greatest battles of World War II, the most colossal encounters of military force,
the most devastating human losses which the modern world has ever seen, occurred on Russian soil during
1941-1945, on a battlefield that is unknown to most Americans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuuthpJmAig&list=PLfLzvgzsb9TifHZ7atjvqaLinfp1lfs3R

You mean the war you created?

We watched you get your asses kicked. So it's not unknown. It's just we didn't care about your commie asses.

[jimnyc]

I was in an unknown war once.

[Drummond]

Oh dear =/

Idk about the curriculum in the states Balu (though I assume it's similar), but in the UK you won't find a 16 year old who hasn't been through a course on World War Two, focusing on the Britsh, American, Russian, German, and Japanese forces.

Exactly so, Noir. Balu thinks he's 'educating us'. I have no idea why.

[Black Diamond]

Since we have Burt Lancaster narrating / presenting the video Balu provides, I thought I'd do a bit of research on him ... considering that he seems to be offering some sort of supportive narrative for the Russian Communist State, in its struggle against Hitler.

Surprise, surprise. Turns out that Lancaster was a Leftie ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Lancaster



I expect that this is better known amongst people on this forum, than it was to me, until just minutes ago ? Regardless, this obviously explains Lancaster's involvement in a video such as this.
Eugene was far left for sure. Question is was he farther left than Bobby Kennedy?

[NightTrain]

I think you're mistaken, Balu... there's been a great many documentaries made here in America about that facet of the war. I've watched a dozen or so.

[NightTrain]

I was in an unknown war once.

I remember that. Out on the Chop Suey Trail.

[Drummond]

I think what may be unknown to many is the Red Army's rape of Germany.

Nothing would surprise me where Commie trash is concerned.

[Gunny]

I was in an unknown war once.

Yeah? Which war war was that? (and yeah, I know it's a joke).

[Drummond]

Eugene was far left for sure. Question is was he farther left than Bobby Kennedy?

Does it matter ? A Leftie is a Leftie ...

[jimnyc]

Yeah? Which war war was that? (and yeah, I know it's a joke).

Now that I go to tell a story, I feel bad, as if it's demeaning to those who fought in real wars. :(

But I did once score 4 touchdowns in a HS football game for Polk High!

[Black Diamond]

Does it matter ? A Leftie is a Leftie ...

Maybe not in 1968. But today there are lefties and then there's Obama.

[Drummond]

Maybe not in 1968. But today there are lefties and then there's Obama.

Fair enough - point taken.

Still ... where I'm from, what Obama has done is pretty tame compared with what the Left has got up to on this side of the Pond.

The NHS, for one, where virtually all of healthcare is State-run ... with consequent disasters.

Or, Unions that have had the power to paralyse Society. Margaret Thatcher had to deal with them by passing tough legislation, curbing their freedom to go on wrecking sprees.

Margaret wasn't fond of 'Big Government' solutions when there was an alternative .. but, neither did she flinch from applying them, when a need presented itself. Hers was a totally practical approach, doing whatever it took to solve a problem.

[NightTrain]

Yeah? Which war war was that? (and yeah, I know it's a joke).


I was there, too.

I took this pic out on the Chop Suey Trail with Jim and DMP. DMP was securing the perimeter for the photo op.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7559&stc=1

[gabosaurus]

The Eastern Front is so unknown that countless thousands of books have been written about it.
I would love to educate Balu on the real "unknown war" -- the German side. Since Soviet Russia has censored or revised all accounts of Russian atrocities since 1941.
I have read books and seen films about the "unknown war." My maternal grandfather fought on the Eastern Front in 1944-45. I am guessing that Balu has relatives who fought on the opposite side.
The REAL "unknown war" is how the Russians oppressed their territories after WWII. The Berlin Wall was not erected as a tourist attraction.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was there, too.

I took this pic out on the Chop Suey Trail with Jim and DMP. DMP was securing the perimeter for the photo op.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7559&stc=1

Damn Jim, aren't those two big green earrings hanging kinda low amigo?
At least ya got a matching pair.. :laugh:--Tyr

[gabosaurus]

I was in an unknown war once.

It's not unknown. Your brothers have documented the need to whoop your butt regularly on several occasions. :cool:

[darin]

Fear the fro!

[Gunny]

The Eastern Front is so unknown that countless thousands of books have been written about it.
I would love to educate Balu on the real "unknown war" -- the German side. Since Soviet Russia has censored or revised all accounts of Russian atrocities since 1941.
I have read books and seen films about the "unknown war." My maternal grandfather fought on the Eastern Front in 1944-45. I am guessing that Balu has relatives who fought on the opposite side.
The REAL "unknown war" is how the Russians oppressed their territories after WWII. The Berlin Wall was not erected as a tourist attraction.

You're ridiculous. The atrocities the Germans committed against hte Russians started this crap. Even attacking Russia was stupid. The Germans bit off more than they can chew. I don't condone war crimes but when mess the bull you get the horns. Hitler hadn't consolidate Europe. You don't start a second front.

[Black Diamond]

You're ridiculous. The atrocities the Germans committed against hte Russians started this crap. Even attacking Russia was stupid. The Germans bit off more than they can chew. I don't condone war crimes but when mess the bull you get the horns. Hitler hadn't consolidate Europe. You don't start a second front.
England decision to fight after Dunkirk was huge.

[Elessar]

The Unknown War

The greatest battles of World War II, the most colossal encounters of military force,
the most devastating human losses which the modern world has ever seen, occurred on Russian soil during
1941-1945, on a battlefield that is unknown to most Americans.


That is kind of a wrong assumption. Russia got their butt kicked at first because Stalin purged 8 (I believe) of
his top field commanders before the Nazi war machine turned on them.

If it wasn't for that dreadful winter and Hitler interfering to spread his forces out over too broad a
territory, the Nazis might have prevailed much better at first.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You're ridiculous. The atrocities the Germans committed against hte Russians started this crap. Even attacking Russia was stupid. The Germans bit off more than they can chew. I don't condone war crimes but when mess the bull you get the horns. Hitler hadn't consolidate Europe. You don't start a second front.

History clearly points out that had Hitler not attacked the Russians we would not have won that war..
First those forces/airpower etc. would have knocked Britain out and it was nip and tuck for us with Britain in the game as it was.
Second, the resources sank into fighting in Russia were a massive drain on Germany.
Hitler lost the war once he committed to invade and conquer Russia.
And even after that the germans almost won..
Had Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe to strike airfields and military only in Britain , instead of bombing civilians in cities there Britain was lost.
Two huge mistakes and the bastard made both of them because he thought he was a military genius.
The generals that were adamantly against invading Russia Hitler had executed or else drummed out of the german military.
Dividing forces and adding multiple fronts has sank many an invading force as history so clearly shows.
Russia was savaged all to hell by the germans, Leningrad and Stalingrad..

The German siege of Leningrad lasted 900 days from September, 1941 to January, 1944. During that time 800,000 people, nearly a third of the population died.

Stalingrad-- Only at the end did it become apparent the scale of destruction and death that had occurred at Stalingrad, estimates vary but the death toll is generally accepted to be somewhere between one and two million, though not universal it is generally accepted to be the single largest death toll in any battle in mankind’s history.

[Gunny]

History clearly points out that had Hitler not attacked the Russians we would not have won that war..
First those forces/airpower etc. would have knocked Britain out and it was nip and tuck for us with Britain in the game as it was.
Second, the resources sank into fighting in Russia were a massive drain on Germany.
Hitler lost the war once he committed to invade and conquer Russia.
And even after that the germans almost won..
Had Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe to strike airfields and military only in Britain , instead of bombing civilians in cities there Britain was lost.
Two huge mistakes and the bastard made both of them because he thought he was a military genius.
The generals that were adamantly against invading Russia Hitler had executed or else drummed out of the german military.
Dividing forces and adding multiple fronts has sank many an invading force as history so clearly shows.
Russia was savaged all to hell by the germans, Leningrad and Stalingrad..

The German siege of Leningrad lasted 900 days from September, 1941 to January, 1944. During that time 800,000 people, nearly a third of the population died.

Stalingrad-- Only at the end did it become apparent the scale of destruction and death that had occurred at Stalingrad, estimates vary but the death toll is generally accepted to be somewhere between one and two million, though not universal it is generally accepted to be the single largest death toll in any battle in mankind’s history.

LOL. I was actually looking for Kathianne 's War of 1812 thread. It's known as "forgotten war" here. As far as Stalin goes, he was complicit in Germany's crap until he got back stabbed by Hitler. He originally was planning on dividing Europe with Hitler. Hitler was like Obama -- his country's own worst enemy. His stupidity and military ineptness led to Germany's defeat.