Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?

My mind set is close to Daniel Dennett as far as what religious people / theist should become after they grow up.

Personally, I like a lot of the social functions and appeasement of our need for fellowship, hivishness and tribalism offered by religious institutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5tGpMcFF7U

So I do not want to kill all religions but just encourage them to be more moral, tolerant and give equality to women and gays.

Having said the above, People and recent trends to read scriptures literally have cause many to forget that religions were invented as theatre and myth and were never meant to be read or taken literally.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

As you can see from the following, religions and temples have always been about entertainment and fellowship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7BHvN6rZZA

If we could return to the old way of seeking God instead of idol worshiping false Gods, perhaps jihadists and other fundamental believers might chill and get along the way they have at some points in our history.

Religions are fairy tales for adults. If this is a truth, we should encourage religions to grow up and return to their better past of seeking God stead of idol worshiping Yahweh and Allah, both mythical and manmade Gods.

Regards
DL

[gabosaurus]

You're starting to repeat yourself.

[Voted4Reagan]

You're starting to repeat yourself.

DEJA MOO....

The feeling you hear the same Bullshit over and Over again

[Augusto]

- Knock, knock...
- Who's there?
- Voted4Reagan again.
- Holly shit...!

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You're starting to repeat yourself.

:lame2:
Say that again.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

DEJA MOO....

The feeling you hear the same Bullshit over and Over again

True.

Like a genocidal son murdering God is worthy of respect.

Regards
DL

[AllieBaba]

Good for you. You have no respect for most of humanity. We get it. Now explain why anybody should care what any of us should care about what an anti-social, close-minded lunatic *thinks* about religion?

[Augusto]

Good for you. You have no respect for most of humanity. We get it. Now explain why anybody should care what any of us should care about what an anti-social, close-minded lunatic *thinks* about religion?

No reason, no reason at all...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7529&stc=1

[AllieBaba]

“Sneering at religion is juvenile, symptomatic of a stunted imagination.” It exposes a state of perpetual adolescence that has something to do with their parents– they’re still sneering at dad in some way." http://www.salon.com/2015/07/29/camille_paglia_takes_on_jon_stewart_trump_sanders_ liberals_think_of_themselves_as_very_open_minded_b ut_that%E2%80%99s_simply_not_true/

[AllieBaba]

"We have a whole generation of young people who are clinging to politics and to politicized visions of sexuality for their belief system. They see nothing but politics, but politics is tiny. Politics applies only to society. There is a huge metaphysical realm out there that involves the eternal principles of life and death. The great tragic texts, including the plays of Aeschylus and Sophocles, no longer have the central status they once had in education, because we have steadily moved away from the heritage of western civilization.The real problem is a lack of knowledge of religion as well as a lack of respect for religion. I find it completely hypocritical for people in academe or the media to demand understanding of Muslim beliefs and yet be so derisive and dismissive of the devout Christian beliefs of Southern conservatives." http://www.salon.com/2015/07/29/camille_paglia_takes_on_jon_stewart_trump_sanders_ liberals_think_of_themselves_as_very_open_minded_b ut_that%E2%80%99s_simply_not_true/

[Augusto]

???

You are asking for respect?

1. Brainwashing cannot be respected. Millions of theists are being exploited by religious institutions and they're helpless.
2. Religion calls atheists "fools" and claim they're going to hell.
3. Christianity condems homosexuality. No respect there.
4. All religious condem every other religion.
5. The Bible and the Q'ram do not understand anything about women's rights.
6. Telling the truth about religion is not a lack of respect.
7. I'm sorry you feel that way, but, by the other hand, you should be grateful and interested in exploring what we are telling you.

Atheists do not hate theists. We are simply spreading knowledge and trying to help. It is theists who start showing hostility and perceive information as an attack.

True, sometimes one can be a little agressive, but it's all part of the game, we are not Jesus.

Read, investigate, educate yourself. Embrace the truth and it will set you free!

[AllieBaba]

???

You are asking for respect?

1. Brainwashing cannot be respected. Millions of theists are being exploited by religious institutions and they're helpless.
2. Religion calls atheists "fools" and claim they're going to hell.
3. Christianity condems homosexuality. No respect there.
4. All religious condem every other religion.
5. The Bible and the Q'ram do not understand anything about women's rights.
6. Telling the truth about religion is not a lack of respect.
7. I'm sorry you feel that way, but, by the other hand, you should be grateful and interested in exploring what we are telling you.

Atheists do not hate theists. We are simply spreading knowledge and trying to help. It is theists who start showing hostility and perceive information as an attack.

True, sometimes one can be a little agressive, but it's all part of the game, we are not Jesus.

Read, investigate, educate yourself. Embrace the truth and it will set you free!I am educated. you are the ignorant, statist sycophant here. And it's scary. Stay wherever you are, don't come here.

[Voted4Reagan]

https://reasonlogicreality.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/hypocrite.jpg

[Augusto]

I am educated. you are the ignorant, statist sycophant here. And it's scary. Stay wherever you are, don't come here.

Okaaay...

Open Invitation: I think every forum member should come and see the posts of this guy. Seriously! As far as I can see he is just having a collapse. Once again, think of your children. Go to your church all you want, but THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE...!

[AllieBaba]

Okaaay...

Open Invitation: I think every forum member should come and see the posts of this guy. Seriously! As far as I can see he is just having a collapse. Once again, think of your children. Go to your church all you want, but THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE...!

Shut up, fruit loop. #1, I'm not a guy. #2, I'm 51 years old. #3, I have 4 children, 2 of which are grown and married, one of which has children of his own. My children and my family have been very well served and their horizons and their understanding of the universe have been broadened by their understanding of faith and a desire to seek out God.

[Augusto]

Okay, sorry to hear that.

Listen lady, how about if you ignore this topics? It's a serious and respectful suggestion.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

“Sneering at religion is juvenile, symptomatic of a stunted imagination.” It exposes a state of perpetual adolescence that has something to do with their parents– they’re still sneering at dad in some way." http://www.salon.com/2015/07/29/camille_paglia_takes_on_jon_stewart_trump_sanders_ liberals_think_of_themselves_as_very_open_minded_b ut_that%E2%80%99s_simply_not_true/

What is juvenile is an adult who believes in a guy in the sky who will fry him forever if he does not believe in his invisible absentee ass.

Who did you say needs to grow up?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I am educated. you are the ignorant, statist sycophant here. And it's scary. Stay wherever you are, don't come here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QriZJ-X3wbU

Why do you fear questions when you think you have the right answers?

Regards
DL

[AllieBaba]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QriZJ-X3wbU

Why do you fear questions when you think you have the right answers?

Regards
DL
I don't fear questions. That's your weird take on things. Don't assign it to me.

[tailfins]

Shut up, fruit loop. #1, I'm not a guy. #2, I'm 51 years old. #3, I have 4 children, 2 of which are grown and married, one of which has children of his own. My children and my family have been very well served and their horizons and their understanding of the universe have been broadened by their understanding of faith and a desire to seek out God.

Your userId could lead one to believe that you're a male Muslim using an unusual spelling because English is not their native language.

[AllieBaba]

Your userId could lead one to believe that you're a male Muslim using an unusual spelling because English is not their native language.It could be that, but it's not, lol. It's the Arabicized version of my own nickname. Just because. It's a name I've used online for 15+ years.

[AllieBaba]

Okay, sorry to hear that.

Listen lady, how about if you ignore this topics? It's a serious and respectful suggestion. See, you think you're being serious and respectful when you accuse religious people of being foolish, poorly educated, and dim...but really, you're not.
It's particularly insulting once one becomes aware of how ignorant and clueless YOU are.

[Augusto]

Ok, I see. Poor you and poor christians... they're like delicate angels and I'm like the devil with a shogun...!

:lame2:

[AllieBaba]

Ok, I see. Poor you and poor christians... they're like delicate angels and I'm like the devil with a shogun...!

:lame2:No, not the devil. Just a dishonest troll.

[Augusto]

You know what? I'm getting tired pretty quick. I just saw this exact same thread is pretty popular on a different forum, which seems to indicate the majority of members here are just not worth our time.

At least in my case, I'm tired of answer with arguments and to receive childish responses for the most part. I did see a few members were nice people, but I'm mostly disapointed.

I'll wait a few more hours to see how people react. If morons insist, I'm willing to please them.

There are many other places I can go and share my ideas and spend my time.

It won't change the facts tho, religions are still fairy tales for adults.

[AllieBaba]

Meh.

[Augusto]

No, no "meh". Keep fucking me with your friends and I'll leave.

I want you and your friends to understand I'm being quite serious. I'm not playing this moronic games anymore. The only reason I've stayed around is your main admin and the poet guy, who seem to be very nice.

I don't need to stand anything.

If you think you're not ready to act like adults, just let me know. Being a theist is not the same as being a complete idiot.

[AllieBaba]

Whatever, I don't care if you leave. You're an arrogant little tantrum-throwing prick. Why would I care?

[NightTrain]

Buh bye, now.

:gives:

[stephanie]

You're mindset is very narrow and closed minded. How are they hurting you if they follow their religion. If they are peaceful they hurt no one. I think you need to grow up

[Gunny]

You're starting to repeat yourself.

He does that a lot.

[Gunny]

You're mindset is very narrow and closed minded. How are they hurting you if they follow their religion. If they are peaceful they hurt no one. I think you need to grow up

His mindset is he's a troll trying to get under your skin.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You're mindset is very narrow and closed minded. How are they hurting you if they follow their religion. If they are peaceful they hurt no one. I think you need to grow up

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D)

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg)

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI)

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac)

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE)

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[AllieBaba]

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D)

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg)

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI)

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac)

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE)

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



No thank you. I wonder what goes on in your life that you have devoted even this much time to such nonsense. Nothing productive, that's for sure.

[tailfins]

No, no "meh". Keep fucking me with your friends and I'll leave.

I want you and your friends to understand I'm being quite serious. I'm not playing this moronic games anymore. The only reason I've stayed around is your main admin and the poet guy, who seem to be very nice.

I don't need to stand anything.

If you think you're not ready to act like adults, just let me know. Being a theist is not the same as being a complete idiot.

I have been nothing but nice to you, which for me is a major feat.

[Voted4Reagan]

I have been nothing but nice to you, which for me is a major feat.

Sucking up to Flame-Baiting Trolls will not endear you to the forum regulars... You suck up to people like Augie and Gnoggie in an effort to seek positive reinforcement. You've alienated so many regulars that the only people that will deal with you are the Trolls.

Seems like your Misogyny and other poor behaviors have left you pretty short on Allies.

Enjoy your new buddies... Two anti-religion advocates and a Religiously intolerant Zealot...

It cant get any funnier.....

[tailfins]

Sucking up to Flame-Baiting Trolls will not endear you to the forum regulars... You suck up to people like Augie and Gnoggie in an effort to seek positive reinforcement. You've alienated so many regulars that the only people that will deal with you are the Trolls.

Seems like your Misogyny and other poor behaviors have left you pretty short on Allies.

Enjoy your new buddies... Two anti-religion advocates and a Religiously intolerant Zealot...

It cant get any funnier.....

I'm not writing this to you specifically (you're not worth the effort), but to others in general.

Who I wish to put effort towards is based on this: Who would assist if a stranger or even someone they disliked needed help? I'm all for efficient use of personal energy. I'm inclined to put effort where it's noticed an appreciated. When it's appreciated, I will even dial it back a couple of notches. Those who expect too much get zero effort. Simulating social interaction takes TONS of effort. I will definitely put forth the effort for Jim, and probably for Jeff and LongTermGuy if they are willing to "grade on a curve".

The test you get your panties in a wad over is simply this: What proportion of the US born population tolerates people with low social skills? I treat DP as somewhat of a random sample. In real life, people who don't tolerate low social skills get the law crammed down their throat and get to deal with lawsuits. I profile people. Profiles that generally are not tolerant of low social skills don't get courtesy from me. They only get the minimum consideration required by law.

[DragonStryk72]

You're starting to repeat yourself.

Starting to? He's been doing this since he started posting here, and even that was copy/paste from other forums because people got understandably sick of his shit there, too.

[DragonStryk72]

Ok, I see. Poor you and poor christians... they're like delicate angels and I'm like the devil with a shogun...!

:lame2:

more like a monkey with feces in hand.

[DragonStryk72]

True.

Like a genocidal son murdering God is worthy of respect.

Regards
DL

Already shot this down, multiple other threads where you've posted it. It's not new, nothing you post is new. It's just a bunch asinine canned copy/paste that has no lasting merit to it.

I mean, what, you're gonna do the internet bitch thing, just keep repeating til people give up and walk away, then declare "victory", even though really, it's just people having realized how deeply pathetic you truly are?

[bullypulpit]

Religion...The magical thinking of children run amok in the hands of adults.

[AllieBaba]

Religion...The magical thinking of children run amok in the hands of adults.
Actually, religion is the route by which advanced thinkers expand their horizons and improve themselves. Our greatest thinkers, philosophers, artists were inspired by God.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Actually, religion is the route by which advanced thinkers expand their horizons and improve themselves. Our greatest thinkers, philosophers, artists were inspired by God.

How can you possibly know this?

This is impossible for you to know and if you must lie to push your beliefs, it is be cause they are not worthy.

Regards
DL

[Drummond]

Religion...The magical thinking of children run amok in the hands of adults.

Then .... DISPROVE religion as anything worthwhile. Come on !! Give it your best shot.

Augusto tried to troll people here on the basis of their faith. He initially tried to 'educate'. When his efforts weren't accepted, and were countered, he started insulting people. When even that didn't win his arguments any form of traction, he just ran away.

I, myself, grew mightily tired of his running away from my countering-arguments.

So if you think you can do any better than Augusto, TRY. Let's see where it gets you.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Then .... DISPROVE religion as anything worthwhile. Come on !! Give it your best shot.

Augusto tried to troll people here on the basis of their faith. He initially tried to 'educate'. When his efforts weren't accepted, and were countered, he started insulting people. When even that didn't win his arguments any form of traction, he just ran away.

I, myself, grew mightily tired of his running away from my countering-arguments.

So if you think you can do any better than Augusto, TRY. Let's see where it gets you.

The social club aspect used for fellowship is ok but that is getting outdated. Any moral or legal aspects that religions might have helped with in the past has now been taken over by more reasonable secular governments.

Have you noticed that Christianity basically never promotes Christian biblical law over secular law?

Regards
DL

[bullypulpit]

Then .... DISPROVE religion as anything worthwhile. Come on !! Give it your best shot.

Augusto tried to troll people here on the basis of their faith. He initially tried to 'educate'. When his efforts weren't accepted, and were countered, he started insulting people. When even that didn't win his arguments any form of traction, he just ran away.

I, myself, grew mightily tired of his running away from my countering-arguments.

So if you think you can do any better than Augusto, TRY. Let's see where it gets you.

Religions, generally speaking, when stripped of the metaphysical weeds grown up around them over the millennia, are attempts to establish a structure for social order. But then some bright chaps figured out how to use fear of the unknown to encourage obedience in the unwashed masses by establishing a system of rewards good behavior and punishments for bad behavior in some mythical, metaphysical after-life beyond human ken. These bright chaps became the prophets and priests of their favorite invisible sky wizard.

Add to that that religious doctrine was set down centuries...even millennia... before anyone even knew what science was, and you have a system of beliefs fit for the Bronze Age. Now, transplant literal interpretations of these Bronze Age belief systems into the 21st century and you have a recipe for disaster. With poverty and injustice running rampant in the world, religionists use these literal interpretations of Bronze Age beliefs to try and impose order in, and make sense of, a post-millennial world. The chief result of this is strife, murder and mayhem as one group f religionists, convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong, murder religionists of other sects deemed apostate and damned.

We have come to the point in the development of the human race where religion, in its ability to divert people to destructive paths can, with the proper weapons, bring the world to an end. Religion is rooted in the irrational, and we can no longer have these irrationalists making decisions which could extinguish all life on this world. We can no longer afford to have these irrationalists governing human actions by the equivalent of reading a goats entrails.

If you "arguments" have merit, I will respond to them. If they are without merit, I'll simply ignore them.

'Bye now.

[jimnyc]

If you "arguments" have merit, I will respond to them. If they are without merit, I'll simply ignore them.

'Bye now.

Drummond - just so you know, coming from knowing bully for many years, if I were to have ignored all of his posts that had no merit, him and I never would have conversed. :)

Good luck with him! He's a DU graduate and Platinum subscriber! :laugh:

[gabosaurus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny2yqpCKDkc

[revelarts]

One of 5-7 arguments for God
Atheism is small thin emotional BS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CulBuMCLg0

[DragonStryk72]

How can you possibly know this?

This is impossible for you to know and if you must lie to push your beliefs, it is be cause they are not worthy.

Regards
DL

Many were.... do... do you not know about the Renaissance? I mean... high school dropouts know about it.

[DragonStryk72]

Religions, generally speaking, when stripped of the metaphysical weeds grown up around them over the millennia, are attempts to establish a structure for social order. But then some bright chaps figured out how to use fear of the unknown to encourage obedience in the unwashed masses by establishing a system of rewards good behavior and punishments for bad behavior in some mythical, metaphysical after-life beyond human ken. These bright chaps became the prophets and priests of their favorite invisible sky wizard.

Add to that that religious doctrine was set down centuries...even millennia... before anyone even knew what science was, and you have a system of beliefs fit for the Bronze Age. Now, transplant literal interpretations of these Bronze Age belief systems into the 21st century and you have a recipe for disaster. With poverty and injustice running rampant in the world, religionists use these literal interpretations of Bronze Age beliefs to try and impose order in, and make sense of, a post-millennial world. The chief result of this is strife, murder and mayhem as one group f religionists, convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong, murder religionists of other sects deemed apostate and damned.

We have come to the point in the development of the human race where religion, in its ability to divert people to destructive paths can, with the proper weapons, bring the world to an end. Religion is rooted in the irrational, and we can no longer have these irrationalists making decisions which could extinguish all life on this world. We can no longer afford to have these irrationalists governing human actions by the equivalent of reading a goats entrails.

If you "arguments" have merit, I will respond to them. If they are without merit, I'll simply ignore them.

'Bye now.

So.. on a scientific level, you are stating that the universe just winked into existence? I,mean, science tells us that can't be possible, you know, that whole objects and outside force kind of thing?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Religions, generally speaking, when stripped of the metaphysical weeds grown up around them over the millennia, are attempts to establish a structure for social order. But then some bright chaps figured out how to use fear of the unknown to encourage obedience in the unwashed masses by establishing a system of rewards good behavior and punishments for bad behavior in some mythical, metaphysical after-life beyond human ken. These bright chaps became the prophets and priests of their favorite invisible sky wizard.

Add to that that religious doctrine was set down centuries...even millennia... before anyone even knew what science was, and you have a system of beliefs fit for the Bronze Age. Now, transplant literal interpretations of these Bronze Age belief systems into the 21st century and you have a recipe for disaster. With poverty and injustice running rampant in the world, religionists use these literal interpretations of Bronze Age beliefs to try and impose order in, and make sense of, a post-millennial world. The chief result of this is strife, murder and mayhem as one group f religionists, convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong, murder religionists of other sects deemed apostate and damned.

We have come to the point in the development of the human race where religion, in its ability to divert people to destructive paths can, with the proper weapons, bring the world to an end. Religion is rooted in the irrational, and we can no longer have these irrationalists making decisions which could extinguish all life on this world. We can no longer afford to have these irrationalists governing human actions by the equivalent of reading a goats entrails.

If you "arguments" have merit, I will respond to them. If they are without merit, I'll simply ignore them.

'Bye now.

I agree the literalists and fundamentals have ruined religions and made them irrational.
I think that before literalism reared its ugly and destructive head, people were using their religious myths to seek God. I think that was a worthy quest. Unfortunately, Christianity and Islam became idol worshipers and ruined the search for God.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."



I think that if Christianity and Islam return to seeking God, instead of idol worship, they might survive but they do not seem to want to recognize that fact and will die out as they should. There are good things about both Christianity and Islam as most adherents are good people but unless they change to God seekers, they will throw out the baby with the bath water when they fail.




Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Many were.... do... do you not know about the Renaissance? I mean... high school dropouts know about it.

:lame2:

What you say you know is impossible to know.

Show how you an possibly know it and we will chat.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So.. on a scientific level, you are stating that the universe just winked into existence? I,mean, science tells us that can't be possible, you know, that whole objects and outside force kind of thing?

Why is it more possible that some guy in the sky was always there and some day just decided to create everything than the big bang theory?

Why believe in a God of the Gaps instead of the big bang when most mainstream religions accept evolution as a fact?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

One of 5-7 arguments for God
Atheism is small thin emotional BS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CulBuMCLg0

Two quick questions for you.

Tell us please, does thought or thinking need time?

If God is all powerful, why can he not reproduce without a human's help?

Regard
DL

[Voted4Reagan]

http://i.imgur.com/19fdMAk.jpg?1

[revelarts]

Two quick questions for you.
Tell us please, does thought or thinking need time?
If God is all powerful, why can he not reproduce without a human's help?
Regard
DL


Quick Question for you.
Will you EVER honestly engage points presented that refute your patch work case?

[Voted4Reagan]

Quick Question for you.
Will you EVER honestly engage points presented that refute your patch work case?

Dont you get tired of his hit and run Trolling Rev?

Why do you waste any thought on this clown?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Quick Question for you.
Will you EVER honestly engage points presented that refute your patch work case?

I just did.

Honest would be you accepting questions on what you put.

Your link made two points that I questioned.

Why do you not answer if you understand what you put?

Regards
DL

[bullypulpit]

So.. on a scientific level, you are stating that the universe just winked into existence? I,mean, science tells us that can't be possible, you know, that whole objects and outside force kind of thing?

:lol:

Lambda-CDM model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model)
Its called "science"

[bullypulpit]

http://i.imgur.com/19fdMAk.jpg?1

Wrong!

This argument is from a false premise. The atheist described above would, by this description, would be a sociopath. The implication being that atheists are amoral sociopaths. The argument presented in that image is based on a false analogy and is, thus, invalid.

[Jeff]

No, no "meh". Keep fucking me with your friends and I'll leave.

I want you and your friends to understand I'm being quite serious. I'm not playing this moronic games anymore. The only reason I've stayed around is your main admin and the poet guy, who seem to be very nice.

I don't need to stand anything.

If you think you're not ready to act like adults, just let me know. Being a theist is not the same as being a complete idiot.

Holy hell are you a whiner, who in the right mine would want to get involved with a guy that cries all the time, " If I don't get my way I am leaving " well hell stamp your feet and leave, see ya Beotch.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Wrong!

This argument is from a false premise. The atheist described above would, by this description, would be a sociopath. The implication being that atheists are amoral sociopaths. The argument presented in that image is based on a false analogy and is, thus, invalid.

You suffer fools better than I.

Regards
DL

[Drummond]

Religions, generally speaking, when stripped of the metaphysical weeds grown up around them over the millennia, are attempts to establish a structure for social order. But then some bright chaps figured out how to use fear of the unknown to encourage obedience in the unwashed masses by establishing a system of rewards good behavior and punishments for bad behavior in some mythical, metaphysical after-life beyond human ken. These bright chaps became the prophets and priests of their favorite invisible sky wizard.

Add to that that religious doctrine was set down centuries...even millennia... before anyone even knew what science was, and you have a system of beliefs fit for the Bronze Age. Now, transplant literal interpretations of these Bronze Age belief systems into the 21st century and you have a recipe for disaster. With poverty and injustice running rampant in the world, religionists use these literal interpretations of Bronze Age beliefs to try and impose order in, and make sense of, a post-millennial world. The chief result of this is strife, murder and mayhem as one group f religionists, convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong, murder religionists of other sects deemed apostate and damned.

We have come to the point in the development of the human race where religion, in its ability to divert people to destructive paths can, with the proper weapons, bring the world to an end. Religion is rooted in the irrational, and we can no longer have these irrationalists making decisions which could extinguish all life on this world. We can no longer afford to have these irrationalists governing human actions by the equivalent of reading a goats entrails.

If you "arguments" have merit, I will respond to them. If they are without merit, I'll simply ignore them.

'Bye now.

You're theorising, and when it comes down to it, only that. I'd love to see you prove that your assertions are the totality of what's involved, as you're claiming.

But of course, they're not, and, you can't.

What's interesting to me is that the picture you paint really says a lot more about Leftie ambition than it does of the true nature and relevance of religion. The Left hate religion, because the Left want power. Total, absolute, power .. even to the point where they dictate how everyone in society should think and feel. It's all they really care about. They want their social imperatives grafted on to everyone's consciousness, and to have NOTHING intrude on that.

Unfortunately .. religion DOES. Therefore, in LeftieWorld, religion must go !

Knowledge has increased over the ages. Science has played an enormous part in that. Even so ... there's an area or two where science cannot go, not intelligibly, not usefully. Religion, however, CAN .. and substitutes for science's inadequacies in that regard.

Your theorising does nothing to address this. But, part of the point of religion is that it does, and in the one meaningful way possible.

Religion is more than just about defining what's right and wrong (.. and building social values on what's defined). It's about living a life, and holding the correct spirit of goodness, according to the path the Creator would wish .. to counterbalance the great gift of life given to us by God in the first place.



So let me say to you what I said to Augusto, just days ago. Science, for all it's worth, is severely limited in the ways which really count. Science can say nothing about our ultimate origin .. the best it can do is to prove, through scientific method (and how much is theory, anyway ?) that the Universe began with a Big Bang. It can say NOTHING about where that 'Big Bang' came from. What originated it remains a mystery to scientists, because they've no test, no method to offer, by which they can go further. After all, how can you devise a test for something not observable, which has no grounding in the parameters of existence as we know them to be ?

[I]... ah. BUT, substitute all of that methodological inadequacy with RELIGION. Then, everything changes. Understand that a Being created the Universe that's outside of it, outside its operational limits of time and space (EACH OF WHICH ARE PROPERTIES OF THE UNIVERSE ITSELF) .. then a whole lot makes sense that wouldn't, to any scientist chained to scientific method.

Can we properly comprehend a power that can create a Universe, create the very means and properties by which it exists and operates, properties we need to have existing in order to survive from one second to the next ? NO. Of COURSE not. However .. we have a form of solution open to us.

It's called .. you guessed it .. RELIGION. Religion is the conduit through which pathetic, feeble creatures such as ourselves relate to God as best as our limitations allow.

See ? Religion is so much more than just a form of blueprint for social order, and, Bullypulpit, you betray your limited, typically LEFTIE thinking, by apparently believing otherwise. There's the whole question of how we can exist which you and your power-seeking Leftie comrades have no answer for. Religion provides as complete an answer to our very existence as we're capable of relating to.

[fj1200]

http://i.imgur.com/19fdMAk.jpg?1

What a ridiculous argument.

[Drummond]

Holy hell are you a whiner, who in the right mine would want to get involved with a guy that cries all the time, " If I don't get my way I am leaving " well hell stamp your feet and leave, see ya Beotch.

Lefties can never admit when they're bested. It's a common fault between them all. Anything rather than admit they're wrong.

[revelarts]

I just did.

Honest would be you accepting questions on what you put.

Your link made two points that I questioned.

Why do you not answer if you understand what you put?

Regards
DL
what 2 points? name the points and refute them... if you can.
Don't ask me lame tangental --non sequitur--- questions and pretend it's an honest reply.

[Kathianne]

what 2 points? name the points and refute them... if you can.
Don't ask me lame tangental --non sequitur--- questions and pretend it's an honest reply.

and he wonders why many think him a troll...

[Gunny]

and he wonders why many think him a troll...

He doesn't wonder. It's what he wants.

[Gunny]

Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?

My mind set is close to Daniel Dennett as far as what religious people / theist should become after they grow up.

Personally, I like a lot of the social functions and appeasement of our need for fellowship, hivishness and tribalism offered by religious institutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5tGpMcFF7U

So I do not want to kill all religions but just encourage them to be more moral, tolerant and give equality to women and gays.

Having said the above, People and recent trends to read scriptures literally have cause many to forget that religions were invented as theatre and myth and were never meant to be read or taken literally.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

As you can see from the following, religions and temples have always been about entertainment and fellowship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7BHvN6rZZA

If we could return to the old way of seeking God instead of idol worshiping false Gods, perhaps jihadists and other fundamental believers might chill and get along the way they have at some points in our history.

Religions are fairy tales for adults. If this is a truth, we should encourage religions to grow up and return to their better past of seeking God stead of idol worshiping Yahweh and Allah, both mythical and manmade Gods.

Regards
DL




WTF is a tweet? Sounds like gay sh*t to me.

[bullypulpit]

You're theorising, and when it comes down to it, only that. I'd love to see you prove that your assertions are the totality of what's involved, as you're claiming.

Far superior to your rank speculation.


What's interesting to me is that the picture you paint really says a lot more about Leftie ambition than it does of the true nature and relevance of religion. The Left hate religion, because the Left want power. Total, absolute, power .. even to the point where they dictate how everyone in society should think and feel. It's all they really care about. They want their social imperatives grafted on to everyone's consciousness, and to have NOTHING intrude on that.

Religion has always been about power and the exercise of that power over others. Personally I don't give a shit what you believe as long as you don't attempt to impose that belief on others be it at the ballot box or at gunpoint. Let the laws of man govern humankind. Let you favorite invisible sky wizard's law deal with 'em after they're dead, which is as it should be.


[I hope I've put that adequately ?] All you've been is tediously long winded.


Science can say nothing about our ultimate origin

Any speculation on ultimate origins is just that...speculation. And the metaphysical speculations of religion as to ultimate origins are the rankest.


Religion is the conduit through which pathetic, feeble creatures such as ourselves relate to God as best as our limitations allow.

And...wait for it...(drumroll)...Which God? :laugh:

[Drummond]

Far superior to your rank speculation.

Superior ? How ?

Besides, didn't you say that you'd reply only if you thought my post was worth replying to ? Evidently, you thought it was ...


Religion has always been about power and the exercise of that power over others.

That's a remarkably limited view. I don't deny that power has been a portion of its application, in olden times (or in present-day times, if we're talking about Islam ... I'll concede that much). But it's also so very much more than that. Take the Christian Ten Commandments, for example ... how is 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' about the application of power ? If anything ... it might be about LIMITING power, I'd suggest ?


Personally I don't give a shit what you believe as long as you don't attempt to impose that belief on others be it at the ballot box or at gunpoint.

Have I suggested any such thing ?

HOWEVER ... the Left, if left completely to their own devices, would reduce all religions to mere talking points, and in that way, reduce their ability to influence considerably. Which is why the Left wants that, since all they care about is making sure that religion doesn't interfere with their own efforts to dominate everyone. Bullypulpit, I'm not surprised that you are intent on reducing everything down to the exercising of power, since it's all the left really cares about.


Let the laws of man govern humankind.

Independently of religious influence ? Don't you believe that moral values play a part in shaping the laws we all live by ?

Or is it, AS I SAID, because all such standards need, in your philosophy, to be seen to come from Left wing thinking ? Because POWER IS ALL to the Left ?


Let you favorite invisible sky wizard's law deal with 'em after they're dead, which is as it should be.

Sorry, you've lost me there. What on earth are you talking about ?


All you've been is tediously long winded.

No ... I've been worth replying to !! Yes, OK, I can be long winded. But, heyy, you can't beat sheer style .. :rolleyes:


Any speculation on ultimate origins is just that...speculation. And the metaphysical speculations of religion as to ultimate origins are the rankest.

Oh dear. You really hate religion, don't you ? Do you see it as that much of a threat to your Leftie control-freakery ?

That is understandable, since religion offers way more than you ever could, in your wildest dreams. Try asking a Leftie for eternal salvation, for example ... chances are that all you'd get is a lecture on the 'joys' of abortion ...

I actually don't consider it mere 'speculation' that God exists. I say it's logically provable. Here goes (and this is the second time I've argued this one in the past week .. !!),

If God doesn't exist, then the Universe is everything. Literally that .. everything. All that's ever been, all that could be, is contained within the Universe.

Even skipping over the question of what's outside the Universe ... SCIENCE NOW DISPUTES THAT. Science has determined that there was indeed a 'Big Bang', that the Universe had a beginning. Therefore, it hasn't always existed.

So, how did it come into being ?

Time and space are properties of our Universe ! They are part of how the Universe exists from one second to the next, or one millennium to the next. They are parameters of its operability.

It therefore follows, logically:

1. Whatever created the Universe - as a machine designer obviously cannot be limited to the parameters of the machine he's designing - must be outside of its physical laws.

2. This means that its Creator is outside of its parameters. Not limited to time. Not limited to space. Therefore -

3. The Creator must be a Being which we cannot say is limited to any passage of time. The nearest we can get to understanding this is to say that the Creator is 'eternal', since the Creator cannot have had an origin-point in time, with time inapplicable to Him.

4. Such a force must be - literally - limitless, since space, and all it contains, is non-applicable. Non-physical by any standards we could ever measure. Non-'linear' by any measure of time having meaning for us.

So, Bullypulpit. WHAT ELSE CAN I BE DESCRIBING, IF NOT A GOD ?


And...wait for it...(drumroll)...Which God? :laugh:

Well, I'd suggest that for you to believe in any of those defined by any religion on earth, would be a distinct improvement to where you now stand !! :laugh:

Bulypulpit, I offer you a challenge. Prove to me that your NON-belief in God is the correct path to follow.

[bullypulpit]

Bulypulpit, I offer you a challenge. Prove to me that your NON-belief in God is the correct path to follow.
And therein lies the rub. Like other rabid religionists, regardless of stripe, you assume that the general cut of the garment of your belief is a fit for all. Yet what might fit one person perfectly may fit another not at all...being too loose or too tight. My non-belief is the correct path for me. Your belief is the correct path for you. To insist that any one religion is the correct path for all is hubris...the sin of pride.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

what 2 points? name the points and refute them... if you can.
Don't ask me lame tangental --non sequitur--- questions and pretend it's an honest reply.

You are not usually this obtuse.

I repeat.

Two quick questions for you.

Tell us please, does thought or thinking need time?

If God is all powerful, why can he not reproduce without a human's help?

----------------------------

Your link, which I guess you did not listen to yourself, said that God lives in a timeless place hence my first question.

Your link said that God was omnipotent hence my second question.

Regard
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

and he wonders why many think him a troll...

How is seeking clarification or asking question on something given trolling?

Do you even know how to apply your name calling? Seems not.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

WTF is a tweet? Sounds like gay sh*t to me.

Perhaps things would be clear if you did not have other peoples junk on your mind all the time.

Your curiosity for gay sex s quite apparent.

Regards
DL

[Drummond]

And therein lies the rub. Like other rabid religionists, regardless of stripe, you assume that the general cut of the garment of your belief is a fit for all. Yet what might fit one person perfectly may fit another not at all...being too loose or too tight. My non-belief is the correct path for me. Your belief is the correct path for you. To insist that any one religion is the correct path for all is hubris...the sin of pride.

This comes across as glib. Fact is that you've actually done nothing to answer my post in any detail.

If you can't question the logic of my argument, why not just say so ? I've made the case that, logically, a God MUST exist, since the fact of the Universe's creation means there must be an even mightier Creator.

My challenge: tackle all this, or, concede I'm right. And in being right ... I prove that belief in a religion is the nearest we can get to doing what's right.

[bullypulpit]

This comes across as glib. Fact is that you've actually done nothing to answer my post in any detail.

If you can't question the logic of my argument, why not just say so ? I've made the case that, logically, a God MUST exist, since the fact of the Universe's creation means there must be an even mightier Creator.

My challenge: tackle all this, or, concede I'm right. And in being right ... I prove that belief in a religion is the nearest we can get to doing what's right.

But I did answer your post. Your dogmatic unwillingness to accept that simple truth...There are as many paths to salvation, liberation, enlightenment (pick you noun), as there are people in the world which reflects the greatest failing of revealed religions. That being the assumption of believers that any view contrary to, or differing in the slightest degree among co-religionists, is apostate, unclean or unholy and thus, to be put down. A process shown to us time and again throughout history.

As for your criticisms of science...True enough, science does not have all of the answers. But those answers are sought, theories developed...and revised or even scrapped...as new discoveries come to light. Science constantly reassesses, tests and revises the theoretical bases of its body of knowledge to more closely comport with reality. Religious doctrine and dogma does not allow for this process. It is set in stone for all time, an absolute. And this is what you, and other religionists seek...absolute certainty in an uncertain, mutable and ever changing universe. And you, and your fellow travelers find this reality daunting, even frightening, and in your longing for security, you turn to religion.

And your arguments do have a logic and internal consistency. But it is circulus in probando...circular logic. You start with a premise that you are seeking to end with. You start with the premise that "God exists" and end with it. This logical fallacy is a bridge to no where as the beginning and end have nothing in between for support.

[Voted4Reagan]

Just have Obama write an executive order saying GOD DOESNT EXIST...

Would that make BullyPulpit twice as happy?

:poke::poke::poke:

[Drummond]

But I did answer your post. Your dogmatic unwillingness to accept that simple truth...There are as many paths to salvation, liberation, enlightenment (pick you noun), as there are people in the world which reflects the greatest failing of revealed religions. That being the assumption of believers that any view contrary to, or differing in the slightest degree among co-religionists, is apostate, unclean or unholy and thus, to be put down. A process shown to us time and again throughout history.

You are the one with an agenda you won't depart from, at any cost. And, you are the one who requires silence from his opposition. Silence, while you do your level best to hammer it ..

Fact is, you still have made no substantive attempt to answer my reasoning. Obviously, because you cannot usefully manage to.

But, you won't admit it. Your scriptwriters wouldn't like you to.


As for your criticisms of science...True enough, science does not have all of the answers. But those answers are sought, theories developed...and revised or even scrapped...as new discoveries come to light. Science constantly reassesses, tests and revises the theoretical bases of its body of knowledge to more closely comport with reality.

That's all very well, but tell me, how do you devise a test, how do you scientifically prove, something existing which is outside of our Universe, not at all subject to any of the Universe's laws or conditions ? Because logic dictates that any Creator of our Universe, CANNOT HELP but be outside of it, and its operational parameters.

You design a machine. You build it. You set it into motion. How on earth must you be SUBJECT to its design parameters ? Of time and space, which are functions and products of its laws ?

How do you design a scientific method for determining the existence of a Being existing independently of everything that defies the boundaries of existence ITSELF, as you - scientifically - acknowledge them to be ? Failure to do so proves NOTHING about what's TRUE.

The Universe had a beginning. We now know that. This means that it was created and designed to exist as it does. This therefore, logically, leads to the ONE conclusion that there was a creating and immensely powerful creator behind it.


Religious doctrine and dogma does not allow for this process. It is set in stone for all time, an absolute.

This tends to be the way of it when you deal with truth.


And this is what you, and other religionists seek...absolute certainty in an uncertain, mutable and ever changing universe. And you, and your fellow travelers find this reality daunting, even frightening, and in your longing for security, you turn to religion.

How better does one commune, or identify with, any Power far mightier and all-knowing than we, limited as we are, could ever grasp a full understanding of ? Your science has no answers, in fact, scientific method cannot help but be totally inadequate to the task, since scientific method deals with the knowable, the observable, the physically provable, ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSE'S LIMITATIONS.


And your arguments do have a logic and internal consistency.

Well, naturally they do.


But it is circulus in probando...circular logic. You start with a premise that you are seeking to end with. You start with the premise that "God exists" and end with it. This logical fallacy is a bridge to no where as the beginning and end have nothing in between for support.

Here, you argue in accordance with the limitations of scientific method. No Creator of the Universe can be bound by a parameter OF that Universe's operability .. that is a nonsense. Time and space are properties of the Universe. No Creator of the Universe, logically, COULD be bound by those properties - or defined by them.

Science is fatally crippled by its limitations. The problem here is your refusal to acknowledge the inevitability of that truth, and to move beyond it to another, more pertinent and wholly useful, step.

You are the one with limitations which prevent you from seeing a greater truth.

[bullypulpit]

You are the one with an agenda you won't depart from, at any cost. And, you are the one who requires silence from his opposition. Silence, while you do your level best to hammer it ..

Fact is, you still have made no substantive attempt to answer my reasoning. Obviously, because you cannot usefully manage to.

But, you won't admit it. Your scriptwriters wouldn't like you to.



That's all very well, but tell me, how do you devise a test, how do you scientifically prove, something existing which is outside of our Universe, not at all subject to any of the Universe's laws or conditions ? Because logic dictates that any Creator of our Universe, CANNOT HELP but be outside of it, and its operational parameters.

You design a machine. You build it. You set it into motion. How on earth must you be SUBJECT to its design parameters ? Of time and space, which are functions and products of its laws ?

How do you design a scientific method for determining the existence of a Being existing independently of everything that defies the boundaries of existence ITSELF, as you - scientifically - acknowledge them to be ? Failure to do so proves NOTHING about what's TRUE.

The Universe had a beginning. We now know that. This means that it was created and designed to exist as it does. This therefore, logically, leads to the ONE conclusion that there was a creating and immensely powerful creator behind it.



This tends to be the way of it when you deal with truth.



How better does one commune, or identify with, any Power far mightier and all-knowing than we, limited as we are, could ever grasp a full understanding of ? Your science has no answers, in fact, scientific method cannot help but be totally inadequate to the task, since scientific method deals with the knowable, the observable, the physically provable, ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSE'S LIMITATIONS.



Well, naturally they do.



Here, you argue in accordance with the limitations of scientific method. No Creator of the Universe can be bound by a parameter OF that Universe's operability .. that is a nonsense. Time and space are properties of the Universe. No Creator of the Universe, logically, COULD be bound by those properties - or defined by them.

Science is fatally crippled by its limitations. The problem here is your refusal to acknowledge the inevitability of that truth, and to move beyond it to another, more pertinent and wholly useful, step.

You are the one with limitations which prevent you from seeing a greater truth.


And you are arguing from the limitations of human experience. You deduce the existence of a "Creator of the Universe" based not upon observation of such an entity which is, by definition beyond human comprehension, but upon the extrapolation of the existence of such an entity from the observation of natural phenomena and interpreting them in the light of circular logic...a an end in search of a premise. You draw conclusions from these observations that another would, with good reason, not.

[Drummond]

And you are arguing from the limitations of human experience. You deduce the existence of a "Creator of the Universe" based not upon observation of such an entity which is, by definition beyond human comprehension, but upon the extrapolation of the existence of such an entity from the observation of natural phenomena and interpreting them in the light of circular logic...a an end in search of a premise. You draw conclusions from these observations that another would, with good reason, not.

Not at all.

The Universe exists. It has definite laws by which it operates. Space (all of it) is within our Universe, and it only exists as it does through conditions specific TO the Universe's existence. Ditto, time .. again, a product of the Universe's existence, and a medium by which everything exists.

Science has, we're told, proved that the Universe had a beginning-point. Therefore, IT WAS CREATED. This is logically irrefutable.

Now - keeping it simple - WHAT ELSE but a creating Being, only identifiable as a God, could POSSIBLY have been responsible ? The sheer power of the mind, and the capabilities involved, and the independence from everything which sustains life as we know it, cannot HELP but be 'God-like'.

Tell me I'm wrong. Produce evidence to that effect, or, construct reasoning which nullifies my own.

I predict that you cannot do it. Therefore, YOU HAVE NO WAY, AND NO REASON, TO CONCLUDE I'M WRONG.

But, you'll do it anyway. You have your very own belief system, after all, which YOU are loyal to. Just no real way to back it up ....

[Noir]

http://i.imgur.com/19fdMAk.jpg?1

Why post something that you know isn't true?

[bullypulpit]

Not at all.

The Universe exists. It has definite laws by which it operates. Space (all of it) is within our Universe, and it only exists as it does through conditions specific TO the Universe's existence. Ditto, time .. again, a product of the Universe's existence, and a medium by which everything exists.

Science has, we're told, proved that the Universe had a beginning-point. Therefore, IT WAS CREATED. This is logically irrefutable.

Now - keeping it simple - WHAT ELSE but a creating Being, only identifiable as a God, could POSSIBLY have been responsible ? The sheer power of the mind, and the capabilities involved, and the independence from everything which sustains life as we know it, cannot HELP but be 'God-like'.

Tell me I'm wrong. Produce evidence to that effect, or, construct reasoning which nullifies my own.

I predict that you cannot do it. Therefore, YOU HAVE NO WAY, AND NO REASON, TO CONCLUDE I'M WRONG.

But, you'll do it anyway. You have your very own belief system, after all, which YOU are loyal to. Just no real way to back it up ....

The existence of such a being cannot be proven. Such a being would, by every definition be beyond human perception and experience. You demand proof of that which simply cannot be proven. You and your fellow travelers claim the existence of such a being can be deduced from the observation of natural phenomena absent the context and time over which those phenomena occur. Phenomena which can readily be explained by science. As for those phenomena which haven't been explained, human knowledge simply hasn't found the explanation...yet.
Once again, your circular logic eat its own tail. Now go play with your ouroboros.

[Drummond]

The existence of such a being cannot be proven. Such a being would, by every definition be beyond human perception and experience. You demand proof of that which simply cannot be proven. You and your fellow travelers claim the existence of such a being can be deduced from the observation of natural phenomena absent the context and time over which those phenomena occur. Phenomena which can readily be explained by science. As for those phenomena which haven't been explained, human knowledge simply hasn't found the explanation...yet.
Once again, your circular logic eat its own tail. Now go play with your ouroboros.

Thank you.

All of this ultimately says one thing. Even though you're inclined to reject belief in a God, you lack any basis for that rejection. But, you have your belief, regardless ....


The existence of such a being cannot be proven. Such a being would, by every definition be beyond human perception and experience. You demand proof of that which simply cannot be proven.

NONE OF THIS proves your case. None of it shows the NON existence of a God.

And, if beyond human perception &/or experience, then what this does is to encapsulate the properties we'd expect to be true of a God. Yet .. the very truth of this would put any God beyond the boundaries of science, which remains limited to observing, or proving, that which is definable by the limits of our Universe !!

The existence of a machine, operating from set and defined parameters, absolutely proves the existence of a Creator of it. The Universe is a machine which has its properties, has its origin-point, therefore has its Creator.

There's nothing 'circular' about that - it's just clear TRUTH. And it's eminently logical. Indeed, try coming up with a version of logic that says otherwise !!

Go on -- TRY !

[tailfins]

Thank you.

All of this ultimately says one thing. Even though you're inclined to reject belief in a God, you lack any basis for that rejection. But, you have your belief, regardless ....



NONE OF THIS proves your case. None of it shows the NON existence of a God.

And, if beyond human perception &/or experience, then what this does is to encapsulate the properties we'd expect to be true of a God. Yet .. the very truth of this would put any God beyond the boundaries of science, which remains limited to observing, or proving, that which is definable by the limits of our Universe !!

The existence of a machine, operating from set and defined parameters, absolutely proves the existence of a Creator of it. The Universe is a machine which has its properties, has its origin-point, therefore has its Creator.

There's nothing 'circular' about that - it's just clear TRUTH. And it's eminently logical. Indeed, try coming up with a version of logic that says otherwise !!

Go on -- TRY !

I know a thing or two about evangelism. Arguing with these people accomplishes nothing. You have to wait until they are in hopeless circumstances and God is their only answer. If the soil is frozen, don't waste the seed.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Thank you.

All of this ultimately says one thing. Even though you're inclined to reject belief in a God, you lack any basis for that rejection. But, you have your belief, regardless ....



NONE OF THIS proves your case. None of it shows the NON existence of a God.

Is it not up to those who make a positive claim to show proof of what they claim?

After all negative claims of this sort are impossible to prove but positive ones like yours should be provable.

All who do not believe in a God have more proof than those who believe in a God, just from the fact that God is absentee.

Regards
DL

[Gunny]

Is it not up to those who make a positive claim to show proof of what they claim?

After all negative claims of this sort are impossible to prove but positive ones like yours should be provable.

All who do not believe in a God have more proof than those who believe in a God, just from the fact that God is absentee.

Regards
DL

Sure. Trot out your scientific fairy tale with some proof. Scientific conjecture doesn't count. Bring on some actual facts. I'll shoot your ass down so fast you'll think you were a Zepplin surrounded by Sopwith Camels. But you go right ahead and give it your best shot.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Sure. Trot out your scientific fairy tale with some proof. Scientific conjecture doesn't count. Bring on some actual facts. I'll shoot your ass down so fast you'll think you were a Zepplin surrounded by Sopwith Camels. But you go right ahead and give it your best shot.

Who said anything about science?

I offered one fact of irrefutable evidence to back up the non-believers point as compared to the nothing that theists produce.

I have given the one fact. Shoot it down.

I would prefer that you produce one fact for your side though. That would serve all of us religionists better. Even me.

Regards
DL

[Voted4Reagan]

Who said anything about science?

I offered one fact of irrefutable evidence to back up the non-believers point as compared to the nothing that theists produce.

I have given the one fact. Shoot it down.

I would prefer that you produce one fact for your side though. That would serve all of us religionists better. Even me.

Regards
DL

Fact: You are a drive by Copy/Paste Troll.

Fact: You are the least liked person here

Fact: Nobody likes you or believes a word you say.

[fj1200]

Fact: You are the least liked person here

According to you half the board is the least liked person here.

[Perianne]

According to you half the board is the least liked person here.

I am the least liked person here. People think I am racist. :)

[fj1200]

I am the least liked person here. People think I am racist. :)

Do you mean people who read what you post?

[tailfins]

According to you half the board is the least liked person here.

What do you expect from a demon-possessed lying toadstool? WWSD (What Would Satan Do?) Satan isn't called the false accuser for nothing. "V4R" has on multiple occasions indicated that he participates in occult activities.

As an aside, he never says WHICH Reagan he voted for. Some Democrat committeeman who happened to have the last name Reagan? Just asking.

[Perianne]

Do you mean people who read what you post?

No. People who create thoughts of their own.

Tonight I will go to work and give high quality care to people of all colors and races. I see them only as people in need. "Racism" never crosses my mind.

[fj1200]

^I wish the board would receive that same high standard.

[tailfins]

No. People who create thoughts of their own.

Tonight I will go to work and give high quality care to people of all colors and races. I see them only as people in need. "Racism" never crosses my mind.

Actions speak louder than words!

[Perianne]

^I wish the board would receive that same high standard.

fj, I truly don't think I am a racist. Others see things there, but I don't. I treat people according to the character they demonstrate to me. Actually, I pretty much like everyone I meet. And that includes you.

I suspect if you took a poll, people might think I am a tiny bit harsh about things, but that is all. I call things like I see them. If the mods think I cross the line I wish they would let me know.

I think many people feel the same way I do.

[tailfins]

fj, I truly don't think I am a racist. Others see things there, but I don't. I treat people according to the character they demonstrate to me. Actually, I pretty much like everyone I meet. And that includes you.

I suspect if you took a poll, people might think I am a tiny bit harsh about things, but that is all. I call things like I see them. If the mods think I cross the line I wish they would let me know.

I think many people feel the same way I do.

Peri, please don't waste you mental energy on this. That same energy could be used to get your BSN or Nurse Practitioner's license.

[Perianne]

Peri, please don't waste you mental energy on this. That same energy could be used to get your BSN or Nurse Practitioner's license.

Thanks. I already have my BSN from Murray State (GO RACERS!). I went back to school several years ago to become a physician, but things didn't work out for me. My daughter is pursuing the Nurse Practitioner's license, but I have decided to ride it out without any further degrees. Besides, I make a ridiculous amount of money for what I do now. Probably getting further degrees would not add to the bottom line.

Anyway, that was a sweet post, tailfins. Thanks.

[fj1200]

fj, I truly don't think I am a racist.

I'm going to guess that there are plenty of folks who truly don't think that they're racist and they are generally successful in not referring to non-whites as "negroes and darkies," successful in not creating multitudes of threads decrying what blacks do, and successful in not proclaiming whites as superior intelligence wise to blacks, and so on and so on... I have a feeling you don't really know the definition:


racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

How should your posts be seen any other way?