Question for gnostic...

[revelarts]

So, ok, Lets try a friendly conversation again DL.

Hi DL my Name is Avery. How've you been?
So you want to talk about the golden rule? how or IF it applies to God and Jesus?

Well before we go there the 1st thing i'd like to understand from you though is, well, you seem to suggest in another thread that much (all?) of the Bible is a myth. We can't really talk about God, as I understand him, if you think some or ALL of accounts of God in Bible are just myths, made up stories anyway. And not only that but fiction that has been misinterpreted by "[I]idiot" Christians no less.
If you'd give me some criteria to understand on what basis [I]you judge which parts of the Bible are true and literal and what's not. Like, was Jesus a real person? Was Paul a real person? was Abraham a real person? Did they or anyone literally do or say ANYTHING that's recorded by the Bible by your assessment? Or are some Bible characters literally real but all the miracles false. You seem to take [I]some of moral teaching literally. But most importantly what/who do you think God really is? Is he real...literally? OR is it just an ideal? OR only a/the part of the human soul? OR a placebo what?

I don't want to assume your ideas on any of these points.
please don't assume you really understand mine or tell me what i believe.

If you can answer [I]directly a few of those questions maybe we can have an honest chat about "God" and the golden rule. Because we get to see where the other is coming from in a broad sense. If we're just suppose to reply shotgun style to a hodgepodge series of complaints about God with cobbled togethers out of context verses it just seems like an dishonest attack and not conversation, intelligent or otherwise. We all have the privileged of our own beliefs. I don't mind that your's are different. And even if i think they are incorrect i can talk to you civilly about it any aspects of it... if that's what you really want to do here.

sincerely

Avery aka revelarts

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So, ok, Lets try a friendly conversation again DL.

Hi DL my Name is Avery. How've you been?

I am quite well thanks. I cannot use the quote function here for some reason so will use the highlight button.

-----------------

So you want to talk about the golden rule? how or IF it applies to God and Jesus?

Indeed.

---------------

Well before we go there the 1st thing i'd like to understand from you though is, well, you seem to suggest in another thread that much (all?) of the Bible is a myth. We can't really talk about God, as I understand him, if you think some or ALL of accounts of God in Bible are just myths, made up stories anyway. And not only that but fiction that has been misinterpreted by "[I]idiot" Christians no less.

I think we can discuss your God's morals regardless of his being real or not, --- just as you could discuss the God of Islam or Buddhism from a moral standpoint. Do not worry about me I can play in your ball field and know the God you believe in quite well. Strange that the first thing you talk about in our talk is how we cannot talk of it.

---------------

If you'd give me some criteria to understand on what basis [I]you judge which parts of the Bible are true and literal and what's not. Like, was Jesus a real person? Was Paul a real person? was Abraham a real person? Did they or anyone literally do or say ANYTHING that's recorded by the Bible by your assessment? Or are some Bible characters literally real but all the miracles false.

The best way for me to answer this is this way.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html


Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."


Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.



"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."


----------------

st importantly what/who do you think God really is? Is he real...literally? OR is it just an ideal? OR only a/the part of the human soul? OR a placebo what?

I don't want to assume your ideas on any of these points.
please don't assume you really understand mine or tell me what i believe.

If you can answer [I]directly a few of those questions maybe we can have an honest chat about "God" and the golden rule. Because we get to see where the other is coming from in a broad sense. If we're just suppose to reply shotgun style to a hodgepodge series of complaints about God with cobbled togethers out of context verses it just seems like an dishonest attack and not conversation, intelligent or otherwise. We all have the privileged of our own beliefs. I don't mind that your's are different. And even if i think they are incorrect i can talk to you civilly about it any aspects of it... if that's what you really want to do here.

sincerely

Avery aka revelarts

I have tried to chat with you before but your deflections, like this last, got in the way.

Stick to issues and we should do fine.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Well before we go there the 1st thing i'd like to understand from you though is, well, you seem to suggest in another thread that much (all?) of the Bible is a myth. We can't really talk about God, as I understand him, if you think some or ALL of accounts of God in Bible are [I]just myths, made up stories anyway. And not only that but fiction that has been misinterpreted by "[I]idiot" Christians no less.


I think we can discuss your God's morals regardless of his being real or not, --- just as you could discuss the God of Islam or Buddhism from a moral standpoint. Do not worry about me I can play in your ball field and know the God you believe in quite well. Strange that the first thing you talk about in our talk is how we cannot talk of it.

So you do think God is a myth then?
If we are going to talk about God seems fair that We BOTH have a view of each other ball feilds don't you think?

[Muhammad Bear]

Hi,

If you don't me jumping in, while I am not a gnostic I do harbor similar views.

Essentially, I view the Christian narrative as a myth with a message as opposed to history with a moral.

The reason for this is mainly based on our hidden history. Gerald Massey for one, shows that the Christ is based on the ancient Egyptian concept of the Karast or Krst meaning the anointed one. Of course there are also the parallels between Christ and Horus or Christ and other mythical figures.

If one scrutinizes the history of Christianity it becomes apparent that the narrative was largely shaped by the Catholic Church. By way of example, nothing could be more obvious than the insertion of Romans 13 (which went on to become Hitler's favorite verse by the way) demonstrating that the Gospel narrative had been edited to the benefit of the Roman Empire.

At the same time the concept of Christ was altered to become a corporeal being that was sacrificed as a means of vicarious redemption. This is entirely consistent with the Roman concept of Saturnalia. During Saturnalia one person was sacrificed each year as a means of absolving society of its sins. We see other Saturnalian elements making their way into Christianity as well. Saturn lives at the North Pole, is associated with an evergreen and each year promises the gift of Spring.

By examining the historical narrative it is quite apparent that this was never intended to be literal. It was perverted to satisfy the libido dominandi of a despotic priest class.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So you do think God is a myth then?
If we are going to talk about God seems fair that We BOTH have a view of each other ball feilds don't you think?

Absolutely.

So let me be clear in my position.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL

[LongTermGuy]

Hi,

If you don't me jumping in, while I am not a gnostic I do harbor similar views.

Essentially, I view the Christian narrative as a myth with a message as opposed to history with a moral.

The reason for this is mainly based on our hidden history. Gerald Massey for one, shows that the Christ is based on the ancient Egyptian concept of the Karast or Krst meaning the anointed one. Of course there are also the parallels between Christ and Horus or Christ and other mythical figures.

If one scrutinizes the history of Christianity it becomes apparent that the narrative was largely shaped by the Catholic Church. By way of example, nothing could be more obvious than the insertion of Romans 13 (which went on to become Hitler's favorite verse by the way) demonstrating that the Gospel narrative had been edited to the benefit of the Roman Empire.

At the same time the concept of Christ was altered to become a corporeal being that was sacrificed as a means of vicarious redemption. This is entirely consistent with the Roman concept of Saturnalia. During Saturnalia one person was sacrificed each year as a means of absolving society of its sins. We see other Saturnalian elements making their way into Christianity as well. Saturn lives at the North Pole, is associated with an evergreen and each year promises the gift of Spring.

By examining the historical narrative it is quite apparent that this was never intended to be literal. It was perverted to satisfy the libido dominandi of a despotic priest class.


*Muhammad Please...if I may... let me jump in...will keep it short....I view the dangerous cult of islam a cancer of deceit...lies and Ignorance...oozing stupidity...

[tailfins]

Hi,

If you don't me jumping in, while I am not a gnostic I do harbor similar views.

Essentially, I view the Christian narrative as a myth with a message as opposed to history with a moral.

The reason for this is mainly based on our hidden history. Gerald Massey for one, shows that the Christ is based on the ancient Egyptian concept of the Karast or Krst meaning the anointed one. Of course there are also the parallels between Christ and Horus or Christ and other mythical figures.

If one scrutinizes the history of Christianity it becomes apparent that the narrative was largely shaped by the Catholic Church. By way of example, nothing could be more obvious than the insertion of Romans 13 (which went on to become Hitler's favorite verse by the way) demonstrating that the Gospel narrative had been edited to the benefit of the Roman Empire.

At the same time the concept of Christ was altered to become a corporeal being that was sacrificed as a means of vicarious redemption. This is entirely consistent with the Roman concept of Saturnalia. During Saturnalia one person was sacrificed each year as a means of absolving society of its sins. We see other Saturnalian elements making their way into Christianity as well. Saturn lives at the North Pole, is associated with an evergreen and each year promises the gift of Spring.

By examining the historical narrative it is quite apparent that this was never intended to be literal. It was perverted to satisfy the libido dominandi of a despotic priest class.

You completely dismiss Christian Fundamentalists. Your observation that Catholicism incorporates the occult is however correct. Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

[Augusto]

Is he a muslim?

OMG... a bad human being at sight...!

Hey, you fuck, we have mothers and daughters and we respect them. We don't wipe them, we don't condone rape and we don't think it's okay to beat our wives, so FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKER TREACHEROUS PIECE OF SHIT...!

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

*Muhammad Please...if I may... let me jump in...will keep it short....I view the dangerous cult of islam a cancer of deceit...lies and Ignorance...oozing stupidity...

They are idol worshipers just as Christians are.

What major difference do you see?

Sure, there are small differences in theology, but not much else in terms of morality.

Mind you, Islam is violent today but more violent than what Christianity was when it helped Constantine usher in the Dar Ages of free thought as well as he Inquisition.

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

They are idol worshipers just as Christians are.

What major difference do you see?

Sure, there are small differences in theology, but not much else in terms of morality.

Mind you, Islam is violent today but more violent than what Christianity Catholicism was when it helped Constantine usher in the Dar Ages of free thought as well as he Inquisition.

Regards
DL

Fixed that for ya'.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Fixed that for ya'.

All who fly the cross are idol worshipers and plan to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven.

You can try to say your particular cult or sect is different but it is not fundamentally different.

Regards
DL

[Muhammad Bear]

Is he a muslim?

OMG... a bad human being at sight...!

Hey, you fuck, we have mothers and daughters and we respect them. We don't wipe them, we don't condone rape and we don't think it's okay to beat our wives, so FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKER TREACHEROUS PIECE OF SHIT...!

Thank you for your well thought out, eloquently phrased and kind welcoming message.

I am not Muslim by the way.

[Muhammad Bear]

You completely dismiss Christian Fundamentalists. Your observation that Catholicism incorporates the occult is however correct. Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

Ignoring Gnostic Christianity, it was the Catholic Church that shaped the narrative.

Indeed theirs was the only brand available for many years. While there are other bands available today they are all heavily influenced by Catholicism. Besides, I was discussing Christianity's origins. Very difficult to do without referring to the Catholic Church.

[Augusto]

Not a muslim, then welcome buddy! :clap:

[Muhammad Bear]

Not a muslim, then welcome buddy! :clap:

Thank you.

M username is misleading. Years ago there was an expat teacher in Sudan. She provided a class mascot which was a small teddy bear. She invited the kids to name it. They chose Muhammad. That was deemed a blasphemy under Sharia for which she faced a draconian punishment.

Hence my username.