Allen West slams Obama, and does it hard...HARD....

[LongTermGuy]

(If this was posted already just merge or delete..)

:salute: *I would follow and trust the leadership of this man through the gates of hell and back....

*READY?.....click play.....:cool:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=106&v=iaHe9PBnFdA

[Balu]

He is Cool! BUT... he is only a paratrooper. He thinks and reasoning as a paratrooper, and this is his main drawback. He knows too few. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif

[Gunny]

He is Cool! BUT... he is only a paratrooper. He thinks and reasoning as a paratrooper, and this is his main drawback. He knows too few. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif

"Only" a paratrooper. You just don't know how to not step in it, huh? You stand up. buckle up and shuffle to the door. Then repeat your comment. Hope your chute opens. You pack your own.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He is Cool! BUT... he is only a paratrooper. He thinks and reasoning as a paratrooper, and this is his main drawback. He knows too few. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif
Sorry my friend but he is much more than just a paratrooper. He is a very astute and deep thinker.
His not running for president this time may be a smart move but his political views are spot on.
I was once only a kid. Yet I've improved greatly since those days. -Tyr

[Balu]

Sorry my friend but he is much more than just a paratrooper. He is a very astute and deep thinker.
His not running for president this time may be a smart move but his political views are spot on.
I was once only a kid. Yet I've improved greatly since those days. -Tyr

I read his biography and his carrier. For the politician the other qualities and the other background is required.
There is a difference between him, reasoning his shooting at the ear of an Iraqi and Churchill, who let the Nazis smash the Coventry.
Emotions? - Yes, there are plenty of them but not more. Just a show for the audience
I hope you will follow what I am speaking about.

[LongTermGuy]

*God Bless `you` all...God Bless America!

[LongTermGuy]

I read his biography and his carrier. For the politician the other qualities and the other background is required.
There is a difference between him, reasoning his shooting at the ear of an Iraqi and Churchill, who let the Nazis smash the Coventry.
Emotions? - Yes, there are plenty of them but not more. Just a show for the audience
I hope you will follow what I am speaking about.


​*Balu...Im not following what your talking about....."Just show for the audience"...Care to clarify?

[Gunny]

​*Balu...Im not following what your talking about....."Just show for the audience"...Care to clarify?

He means like Stalin let Hitler wipe out most of Moscow.

[Perianne]

Allen West slams Obama, and does it hard...HARD....
Ha. The title of this thread. Didn't you know Obama likes to be slammed hard by other guys?

LOL, I am funny, funny, funny!! Hahahaha.

[NightTrain]

Now that was a good, fiery speech!

[LongTermGuy]

Allen West slams Obama, and does it hard...HARD....


Ha. The title of this thread. Didn't you know Obama likes to be slammed hard by other guys?

LOL, I am funny, funny, funny!! Hahahaha.

You are very different...we like it!:cool:

[Drummond]

It's an aside from the main debating topic, but Balu, I'd like you to explain ....


and Churchill, who let the Nazis smash the Coventry

What are you trying to say about Churchill here, Balu ?

Perhaps this will interest you.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/look-winston-churchill-leave-coventry-8513284


On the 50th anniversary of his death, we look into the conspiracy theory that the war-time PM sacrificed the city 'for the greater good'

The man who led Britian’s fight against Adolf Hitler and the Nazis died 50 years ago this weekend.

Winston Churchill passed away on January 24, 1965, after suffering a stroke nine days earlier, and is still regarded by many as one of the finest Britons who ever lived.

However, one question about the inspirational former Prime Minister remains for many people in Coventry: did he sacrifice the city “for the greater good” during the Second World War.

It has long been rumoured that Churchill knew about the incoming Luftwaffe attack on the city back in 1940, but stood by as the German bombers destroyed much of the city centre, including the iconic Coventry Cathedral.

The conspiracy theory, that lives on to this day, is that Churchill knew the city was to be targeted but didn't want to alert Adolf Hilter that the Allies had cracked the Nazi’s top-secret Enigma code.

It is suggested Coventry was sacrificed for the “greater good” and the benefits of the long-term outweighed the short-term costs of leaving the city to its terrible fate.

In his 1974 book 'The Ultra Secret', Group Captain FW Winterbotham asserted that the British government had advance warning of the attack from Ultra: intercepted German radio messages encrypted with the Enigma cipher machine and decoded by British cryptoanalysts at Bletchley Park.

He further claimed Winston Churchill ordered that no defensive measures should be taken to protect Coventry, lest the Germans suspect that their cipher had been broken.

Winterbotham was a key figure for Ultra; he supervised the "Special Liaison Officers" who delivered Ultra material to field commanders.

The Coventry Blitz

Eleven hours of relentless bombing began in early evening of 14 November 1940

Three-quarters of city centre destroyed and 550 people killed on first night

Targeted as it was a major manufacturing city

But bombs fell indiscriminately, and this medieval city's cathedral was largely destroyed

Nazis coined the verb Coventrierung (literally, to Coventrate) to describe total annihilation of a city through aerial bombardment

But there is plenty of scepticism about the conspiracy among historians who suggest Churchill could not have known about the fate that beheld Coventry.'

Thoughts at the time had London being the target and there was little the authorities could have done to protect the people of the city even if they had been forewarned.

There is proof the Prime Minister certainly believed London to be that night's target, his movements on the afternoon of the 14th were recorded by Sir John Colville, a close colleague at Number 10.

That afternoon, Churchill set off for his country house in Ditchley, Oxfordshire, where he regularly stayed instead of Chequers on moonlit nights.

During the journey he opened his yellow Ultra box and quickly learned the heaviest bombing raid yet was about to be launched, but on a target as yet unspecified.

A conspiracy theory is not fact, Balu -- sorry.

[LongTermGuy]

Now that was a good, fiery speech!


*I friggen loved it....I feel he spoke for many of us.....He was angry....

[LongTermGuy]

He means like Stalin let Hitler wipe out most of Moscow.


​I couldn't follow him...thanks...got it.........

[Gunny]

Allen West slams Obama, and does it hard...HARD....


Ha. The title of this thread. Didn't you know Obama likes to be slammed hard by other guys?

LOL, I am funny, funny, funny!! Hahahaha.

I'd rather have a "paratrooper" in charge than a do nothing slug like Obama. I don't care about all this political crap. You send MY Marines off to die, I want them to know what they're dying for and I'm leading the pack. I want someone that's had their boots on the ground giving the orders.

What's scarier than jumping out of a C-130 is fastroping out of a hell hole onto the deck of a moving carrier. Y'all can ask Mr Max about THAT one. That deck goes from 10 to 30 ft in a second.

[red state]

(If this was posted already just merge or delete..)

:salute: *I would follow and trust the leadership of this man through the gates of hell and back....

*READY?.....click play.....:cool:



TOLD YA SO!! HA!!!

Seriously though; I know I don't have to tell most of ya'll a dang thing but in my opinion; That young lady's speech and WEST's truth is SUPERB. Perhaps we should get a petition up and DEMAND that we have a REAL leader for president (this time and every time) and not settle for a McSHAME or Mittens. My GAWD! that speech was discussed earlier by a talk show host and I truly didn't wish to see/hear it cuz it makes me practically want to collect a few more strong, strappin' good ole boys to pick WEST up, and place him in DC. I say we get a petition up for WEST and that young lady (Tommi Laren, I believe) as VP.

Can you imagine how he'd kick that SOW @$$, currently in OUR White House (be it debate wise or a LITERAL @$$ whoopin.?!!! I'd love to see that coffee saluting SOW get his @$$ kicked but I'd settler for him to stumble down Air Force One and break his freakin' neck!!!!!! It is just a shame that he didn't break his freakin' neck on the inaugural steps after his first election swear-in.

What a campaign slogan......

:salute: GO WEST!!!

[LongTermGuy]

TOLD YA SO!! HA!!!

Seriously though; I know I don't have to tell most of ya'll a dang thing but in my opinion; That young lady's speech and WEST's truth is SUPERB. Perhaps we should get a petition up and DEMAND that we have a REAL leader for president (this time and every time) and not settle for a McSHAME or Mittens. My GAWD! that speech was discussed earlier by a talk show host and I truly didn't wish to see/hear it cuz it makes me practically want to collect a few more strong, strappin' good ole boys to pick WEST up, and place him in DC. I say we get a petition up for WEST and that young lady (Tommi Laren, I believe) as VP.

Can you imagine how he'd kick that SOW @$$, currently in OUR White House (be it debate wise or a LITERAL @$$ whoopin.?!!! I'd love to see that coffee saluting SOW get his @$$ kicked but I'd settler for him to stumble down Air Force One and break his freakin' neck!!!!!! It is just a shame that he didn't break his freakin' neck on the inaugural steps after his first election swear-in.

What a campaign slogan......

:salute: GO WEST!!!


Yup.....I like him also....but he aint running....But the good thing about a Guy like West...He understands and would support any "American" when its time.... chosen to run against the leftists cancer.

[revelarts]

I really have NOT followed the Iran deal. and personally don't have ANYTHING to say good or bad about it.However, many here hate it very much and Allen West had conniption over it.

So just based on this thread I've got a question.
it's very simple.

Do you think we should go to war with Iran as West speech implies.

His speech gave me impression that he wants to go to War with Iran. and that Iran is worse than the USSR and And King George of England put together. And that Iran could take our "Liberty, freedoms, way of life" away any day now if we don't "act like Lions".

lions are aggressive. so by implication ...war?
He's quoting Tom Paine.. " These are the times that try mens souls.." really?
"we have to make sure the enemies of America are crushed..."

OK yeah!! Rah... RAh... USA!!! USA!! USA!!

Alright. so what's a plan of a REAL HE MAN President? Preemptive strike and ground troops next week?
More sanctions? More talks until we get a better deal?
More covert Attacks on their people and infrastructure?

It seems to me that Balu has a point. Some guys in the military have hammer thinking.
the military is a hammer and every "enemy" is a nail.


maybe the deal with Iran is a terrible horrible worse deals a U.S. president ever made in history. But i'm still not convinced anyone has given a coherent alternative other than to IMPLY another preemptive WAR. Seeing that hat last one has worked out so well to REDUCE terrorism in the M.E. an all i guess that's a good plan..cough...

I just wonder why people seem so gun-ho for this kind of talk.
Is it just that it makes us feel good. but that we don't really want to do anything like start a real war. But just saying it out loud makes us feel better.
Kinda like randomly chanting "death to Iran" or something.


so anyway how many here want to go to war with Iran?

[Balu]

Now that was a good, fiery speech!
Yes it was.
But there was a time, when one of former lance-corporals delivered more fiery speeches for his Nation. He even managed to create a prefiguration of the present EU. But it cost too much, at least to my country. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

[Perianne]

Yes it was.
But there was a time, when one of former lance-corporals delivered more fiery speeches for his Nation. He even managed to create a prefiguration of the present EU. But it cost too much, at least to my country. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

Who was he?

[Balu]

Yup.....I like him also....but he aint running....But the good thing about a Guy like West...He understands and would support any "American" when its time.... chosen to run against the leftists cancer.
You said the same as me. He may be an excellent battalion commander (the top of his military career) , especially in combat. Under these condition such hysteria may be accept and excepted to some extend. THIS is his Nature and he demonstrated it clearly.

[Balu]

Who was he?

He was that who was proclaiming - "Deutschland. Deutschland uber alles, Uber alles in der Welt!"

[Perianne]

He was that who was proclaiming - "Deutschland. Deutschland uber alles, Uber alles in der Welt!"

Oh. Benjamin Franklin.

[red state]

I really have NOT followed the Iran deal. and personally don't have ANYTHING to say good or bad about it.However, many here hate it very much and Allen West had conniption over it...with Iran? BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

Spoken like a true liberal and I'm disappointed to have finally came to a conclusion about you (FINALLY). "Conniption fit".....REALLY! He was expressign EXACTLY what most REAL Americans feel and I regret that you are now classified as "other" in my humble opinion.

I once liked your comments a great deal and shared much with you BUT your conniption fits over cops and other things has grown VERY OLD (similarly to Al Sharpton Conniption fits but I never hear a word out of you on that).

Got to war........NO, not really. Bombing the hell out of some bastages in the middle of a GAWD forsaken desert is not going to war. I would to God we had simply supplied or bombed the hell out of others such as Iraq, Vietnam and Korea before putting our BEST in harms way while fighting THEIR fight door to door and with women & children in the way.

Allen WEST told it EXACTLY as it is and should be.......Good day to your, sir (or is this really rev. AL)?

[red state]

Yup.....I like him also....but he aint running....But the good thing about a Guy like West...He understands and would support any "American" when its time.... chosen to run against the leftists cancer.

Yeah, I just did something within this thread that I thought I'd NEVER do but I did it and RIGHTFULLY so (nothing on you LTG).

As for your comment.....

I've liked him long before coming here to DP and I still say that he should run (screw em). I'll probably write WEST in if the screw with me again. If they give us another McSHAME or Mittens.......I'll be wastin' my vote anywho!!!! As for West, he does understand REAL America and will fight for the Constitution and NOT provide the same rights to those outside the Constitution. SCREW EM....bomb the HELL out of the scum as Israel will probably be forced to do. You have nuts that seem to support Iran on the LIBERAL-tarian side and I'm sick of those FAKES as much as I am boneheadified libstards!!!!

What sickens me this morning is that I saw NOTHING on WEST from ANY of the FOX (especially that SOB Irishman who has given B.O. all kinds of slack over the years). I thought Hannity or GRETA would do a segment on him but not a peep. I was surprised that they had that young gal on Fox & Friends.....but they did. Perhaps I've missed something. I said SCREW cable and went solely with ROKU. It has Fox, History, Netflix and my local Memphis Fox......which is all I ever needed. Maybe CNN or someone covered it but it is a DAMN shame that they have now blasted Trump and won't even cover WEST!!!!!! SOBs......the lot of them!!!!!!!!

[NightTrain]

Yes it was.
But there was a time, when one of former lance-corporals delivered more fiery speeches for his Nation. He even managed to create a prefiguration of the present EU. But it cost too much, at least to my country. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

Well... I think comparing West with Hitler is quite a stretch. The only similarity I can see are they are both gifted speakers.

West is right on the money with his statements of our president. Obama has blundered his way around the White House, tearing down America and creating chaos worldwide with his ineptitude and sheer incompetence.

West is more than a Paratrooper - he's also a former U.S. Congressman.

[red state]

Well... I think comparing West with Hitler is quite a stretch. The only similarity I can see are they are both gifted speakers.

West is right on the money with his statements of our president. Obama has blundered his way around the White House, tearing down America and creating chaos worldwide with his ineptitude and sheer incompetence.

West is more than a Paratrooper - he's also a former U.S. Congressman.

Yeah....WEST is the poster MAN for REAL Americans (like me). You are spot on NT.....until those SOB's calling themselves Republicans (and CONSERVATIVES no less) not only threw WEST to the back of the bus but continued till they threw him UNDER the bus, West was well on his way to do GREAT things (MORE great things other than save his troops). West, like US, are too American for the likes of the scum we have in office. Our so-called leaders should have rallied around WEST and it would have made a GREAT impression had Walker, Trump or Cruz spoke up about West's speech and criticized the media for not covering it........DISGUSTING and even those ONLY THREE that are the ONLY once I would even consider voting for have now got me thinking "PEROT VOTE" again. SCREW EM!!!!! NamVet is disgusted and I see some of what he is feeling (AGAIN). We shall see but I am now, more than ever, seeing HELLary as our next traitor in chief or chief traitor in MY White House!!!!

I would have thought some HERE would have come to WEST's defense but it seems that they have shown their true colors (and it seems that color is the only thing of importance.......so long as it supports the poor, defenseless, mis-treated black scum). When a REAL American of African blood-line speaks up (like a REAL American) they either ignore him or start the UNCLE TOM $#!T. In that regard, they have proven to me that THEY are full of $#!T!!!!!

[revelarts]

..
(similarly to Al Sharpton Conniption fits but I never hear a word out of you on that).
...
um ok, just show me one place where i ever posted an Al Sharpton video. much less posted one of his bs rants and claimed with relish he was speaking the truth, for REAL Americans, the constitution or apple pie, etc..

See with me it's not about race AT ALL. it's about the content of a persons speech, a speakers votes and actions.

Red state it's sad to me that you and a few others can not seem to address the issues without trying to pigeon hole me.
What we've agreed on in the past i suspect we still agree on.
I haven't changed. the constitution, all of the bill of rights, limited gov't and equally applied justice.

but if you don't believe in that any more then maybe not.



Got to war........NO, not really. Bombing the hell out of some bastages in the middle of a GAWD forsaken desert is not going to war. I would to God we had simply supplied or bombed the hell out of others such as Iraq, Vietnam and Korea before putting our BEST in harms way while fighting THEIR fight door to door and with women & children in the way.

iF a foreign country dropped a few bombs in the Arizona or Utah desert would that be war?
I suspect you'd think it would be. we can't pretend it's not War if we do it. .
And does congress get to have a say on any of this bomb dropping?
West, Obama and you talk about the constitution. there's something in there about wars being declared by congress.
You and West at lest want to defend that part of the constitution too right? not like the constitution breaking Obama.(who i've pointed out over and over again)


If we had just bombed Iraq, do you think there'd be a MORE stable U.S. friendly gov't in Iraq today?
I really wonder if bombs can make other countries less of our enemy.
Are their other options?

[red state]

REV wrote: "um ok, just show me one place where i ever posted an Al Sharpton video."

Never said you posted a video.......merely stated the fact that you sound, in many ways and often, like the other "rev".

Yes, we will always agree on things that we already agree on (that are foundation) but you have changed quite a bit on your approach and animosity towards certain "ranting groups" with no foundation. I, on the other hand, have always been and always will be the obnoxious, stubborn type on the SAME issues I've always had a passion for.

You come here to this particular thread and spout off the same bull without voicing something that most REAL Americans see.....a REAL hero, with a REAL message and REAL American values for REAL change.

As for the bombing Iran thing.........Apples and Oranges, my friend. We are a SOVERIGN, MAJESTIC and HONORABLE Nations.....Iran (not so much). If an all out bully is in need of an @$$ whoopin'.........GOOD people are obliged to deliver it. NOT WAR AT ALL but more of a "woodshed" moment.

[Balu]

... I really wonder if bombs can make other countries less of our enemy.
Are their other options?
What would you say about Japanese Defense Minister Fumio KYUMA (was born in Nagasaki in 1940) thanking the USA for your nuke bombing Japan?
Sometimes, rev, Life is laughing at us.

[Drummond]

I say: nobody in their right mind seeks war. But saying that is a far cry from getting to the point where you have to accept its necessity.

Iran can dictate its own fate. If it behaves responsibly, allows inspections without prevarication, all well and good. Personally, I'd be astonished if they cooperate, though.

If they don't - - the choice is clear. Let them get away with everything. OR, make it clear that if they refuse cooperation, there are consequences to refusal.

Sanctions have been tried. It took a decade of them just to get them to negotiate 'seriously'. Reneging actions following from those negotiations would prove not only that the negotiations were a waste of time, but that sanctions were, too.

Do you then throw in the towel, and just let Iran become a belligerent nuclear power, complete with Holocaustal ambitions they're keen to make good on ? Or, do you do the one thing left -- and defeat them as a viable belligerent ?

Revelarts -- tell me where my analysis is at fault. If you cannot, then accept that war MIGHT be necessary. More, accept that if it is, it still constitutes a preferred outcome to a radioactive Israel.

[revelarts]

I say: nobody in their right mind seeks war. But saying that is a far cry from getting to the point where you have to accept its necessity.

Iran can dictate its own fate. If it behaves responsibly, allows inspections without prevarication, all well and good. Personally, I'd be astonished if they cooperate, though.

If they don't - - the choice is clear. Let them get away with everything. OR, make it clear that if they refuse cooperation, there are consequences to refusal.

Sanctions have been tried. It took a decade of them just to get them to negotiate 'seriously'. Reneging actions following from those negotiations would prove not only that the negotiations were a waste of time, but that sanctions were, too.

Do you then throw in the towel, and just let Iran become a belligerent nuclear power, complete with Holocaustal ambitions they're keen to make good on ? Or, do you do the one thing left -- and defeat them as a viable belligerent ?

Revelarts -- tell me where my analysis is at fault. If you cannot, then accept that war MIGHT be necessary. More, accept that if it is, it still constitutes a preferred outcome to a radioactive Israel.

that's not to bad an analysis IMO.

I just wonder why we can't keep pressure on them, thwarting their military growth overtly and covertly indefinitely. I think maybe the best we can hope for is a stalemate. We sorta did this with the USSR, which was much more expansion minded and had a real world wide Army Navy and 10,000s of nukes armed and pointed at us. Iran is NO WHERE NEAR that capability and couldn't be there in 50-75-100 years. 'Plus, if they do not attack us, we have no real legal justifiable provocation to war. Iranians chanting "death to america" effectively amounts to name calling. Not something rational nations shoot people for. Also Israel has it's own nukes and subs and spies in the M.E. already. they have a handle on their interest. they'll pass on to us any real info it they get it. But we can't be drawn in on emotion and worry by Iranian or Israeli propaganda. And despite it's bombastic rhetoric Iran has proven by it's actions that it's not some knee jerk radical bomber state. It has yet to attack Israel directly even though we all know there's a quiet smoldering covert war going on already.
I think our western desire or expectation for a WW2 like end of conflict SOLUTION, or our ENEMY becoming a friend or GONE soon, may not be very realistic. We may have to live with the tension of a series of M.E. cold wars. I for one am tired of sending men to die in the M.E. just to watch it get worse and violent players switch sides. In the light of how the former Iraqi military has turned into even worse in ISIS. I think we should rethink the military HAMMER options. Reagan didn't go to war with the USSR he talked a good game against them. painted them as soul and nation crushing and basically help bankrupted them by keeping a defenses high. IMO We need to keep a real defense that keeps the sane and supposedly insane thinking twice before attacking us. And use the NSA CIA DIA etc etc to spy on IRAN instead of US citizens. With the tech and good intel on the ground in IRAN i'd like to think that we could sabotage their military efforts for 100 years and help foment a Iranian public friendlier to western culture via trade and cultural exchange.

we always need to be ready for a decisive War but we should work as hard --AT LEAST-- trying to create peaceful relations over time with everyone. We know it will never be perfect but that's what we're ultimately working for isn't it? the most peace and good relations with the lest bloodshed and conflict.

[jimnyc]

Rev - really, a conniption fit? Maybe loud, maybe some disagree, but having a conniption fit? He may be pumped up, but I don't see it nearly as rage, or being crazy, or hysterical and such.

His level of speaking seems NO different to me whatsoever than the endless folks speaking out against the flag, and police killings. Are ALL of those folks having conniption fits?

[revelarts]

Rev - really, a conniption fit? Maybe loud, maybe some disagree, but having a conniption fit? He may be pumped up, but I don't see it nearly as rage, or being crazy, or hysterical and such.

His level of speaking seems NO different to me whatsoever than the endless folks speaking out against the flag, and police killings. Are ALL of those folks having conniption fits?

Ok call it something else then fine by me. Whatever it was, it got everyone roused up emotionally pretty good over ... what?
"Iran is going to take our "liberty, Freedom" etc.. "These are days that try mens souls..."
sheesh
Others here have called it a fiery speech. OK.
Just seemed way over the top IMO.
Plus i hadn't used the word conniption in a long time, thought it was funny. i didn't know others had taken the speech so seriously.

[revelarts]

maybe i'm just jaded by the teapartyish right cheerleaders.
I like Palin and West and Bachman in many aspects but the rhetoric gets us no where. But seems to make many feel good about being "conservative" without thinking through the implications of the actions implied or the possibility of harder more realistic long term options.

[jimnyc]

Ok call it something else then fine by me. Whatever it was, it got everyone roused up emotionally pretty good over ... what?
"Iran is going to take our "liberty, Freedom" etc.. "These are days that try mens souls..."
sheesh
Other here have called it a fiery speech. OK.
Just seemed way over the top IMO.
Plus i hadn't used the word conniption in a long time, thought it was funny. i didn't know others had taken the speech so seriously.

Chill out man!! I was just pointing out that it was a bit of an over the top statement, IMO. I didn't even mention his words. Far too many times in todays world people want to vilify others instantly, without facing the message.

Conniption implies like a child having a temper tantrum. I can see you debating his words, no issue with that whatsoever, but it seemed like saying he had a conniption fit the part over the top. And I didn't take it too seriously. But for example, there are times when I would debate with others about gay stuff, and they would instantly label you are I "homophobes or bigots". My stance would be that they are trying to vilify us prior to the debate even starting. IMO, it seemed like you were trying to vilify West in a similar manner.

Other than that, have a beer, as I wasn't trying to bite your head off. :beer:

[stephanie]

I don't like to use skin colors. but that's one black man I would vote for President.

how the hell did we end up with that American hating, Obama

[LongTermGuy]

maybe i'm just jaded by the teapartyish right cheerleaders.
I like Palin and West and Bachman in many aspects but the rhetoric gets us no where. But seems to make many feel good about being "conservative" without thinking through the implications of the actions implied or the possibility of harder more realistic long term options.


The Man is spot on....say`s things that needed to be said...and with his recognition and other traits (soldier ...American etc...) he is the one to do it most effectively...and that "gets us" `everywhere`...IMO....fires "Americans" up come election time to get an American in the office...

"West" gives butt hurt to the always angry kum-by-ya leftist....as far as "implications"....The best that can happen is > we Nuke the bastards (or destroy (Nuke) their nuke factories)...*all of them...any good ones would of left the vile terrorists country already...but instead the roaches dance in the streets....The cult of islam is a cancer to the world....Who supports anti-American muslim koran reading terrorist? The answer is clear.....

[Drummond]

that's not to bad an analysis IMO.

I just wonder why we can't keep pressure on them, thwarting their military growth overtly and covertly indefinitely. I think maybe the best we can hope for is a stalemate. We sorta did this with the USSR, which was much more expansion minded and had a real world wide Army Navy and 10,000s of nukes armed and pointed at us. Iran is NO WHERE NEAR that capability and couldn't be there in 50-75-100 years. 'Plus, if they do not attack us, we have no real legal justifiable provocation to war. Iranians chanting "death to america" effectively amounts to name calling. Not something rational nations shoot people for. Also Israel has it's own nukes and subs and spies in the M.E. already. they have a handle on their interest. they'll pass on to us any real info it they get it. But we can't be drawn in on emotion and worry by Iranian or Israeli propaganda. And despite it's bombastic rhetoric Iran has proven by it's actions that it's not some knee jerk radical bomber state. It has yet to attack Israel directly even though we all know there's a quiet smoldering covert war going on already.
I think our western desire or expectation for a WW2 like end of conflict SOLUTION, or our ENEMY becoming a friend or GONE soon, may not be very realistic. We may have to live with the tension of a series of M.E. cold wars. I for one am tired of sending men to die in the M.E. just to watch it get worse and violent players switch sides. In the light of how the former Iraqi military has turned into even worse in ISIS. I think we should rethink the military HAMMER options. Reagan didn't go to war with the USSR he talked a good game against them. painted them as soul and nation crushing and basically help bankrupted them by keeping a defenses high. IMO We need to keep a real defense that keeps the sane and supposedly insane thinking twice before attacking us. And use the NSA CIA DIA etc etc to spy on IRAN instead of US citizens. With the tech and good intel on the ground in IRAN i'd like to think that we could sabotage their military efforts for 100 years and help foment a Iranian public friendlier to western culture via trade and cultural exchange.

we always need to be ready for a decisive War but we should work as hard --AT LEAST-- trying to create peaceful relations over time with everyone. We know it will never be perfect but that's what we're ultimately working for isn't it? the most peace and good relations with the lest bloodshed and conflict.

A couple of problems here --

You want ....


I just wonder why we can't keep pressure on them, thwarting their military growth overtly and covertly indefinitely. I think maybe the best we can hope for is a stalemate.

So, 'indefinite' pressure ... for the sake of nothing more than a stalemate ??? I mean .. seriously ? And how much of an expenditure, what resources, would you commit to this 'stalemate' of yours ?

And you assume that the Iranians have no way of fooling you. What if they do ? They've already said they won't allow inspections of missile bases. What if those bases double as nuclear facilities ?

You also talk of Israel in these terms ...


Also Israel has it's own nukes and subs and spies in the M.E. already. they have a handle on their interest. they'll pass on to us any real info it they get it.

But, will they ? They don't trust Obama, for the very good reason that they CAN'T. So why do you think they'll trust America with their own Intelligence data ? If they get an understanding that America is an untrustworthy, unreliable 'ally', they'll just act on their own, as they believe they should.

You say:


'Plus, if they do not attack us, we have no real legal justifiable provocation to war.

Yes, well ... aren't you rehashing the old Leftie argument against the 2003 Iraq invasion ?

I'm sorry, I've just no patience with this routine Leftie protectiveness of belligerent Nation States. You're just trying to find an excuse for keeping Iran 'unmolested', as the Left did where the brutal dictator Saddam Hussein was concerned. Perhaps, someday, someone will explain the Left's love affair with such trash ??

You say:


And despite it's bombastic rhetoric Iran has proven by it's actions that it's not some knee jerk radical bomber state. It has yet to attack Israel directly even though we all know there's a quiet smoldering covert war going on already.

Because, right now, Israel is capable of greatly 'outgunning' them, that's why !! BUT, get a sneak nuke attack launched, and that'd all change. Which brings us back to the status quo, and your keenness to expend enormous efforts at getting a hoped-for STALEMATE .....