John McCain said that his own war actions weren't particularly heroic [Archive] - Debate Policy

Little-Acorn

07-19-2015, 04:16 PM

Gunny

07-19-2015, 04:29 PM

McCain never pointed to his own experience as heroic--quite the contrary. "Incidents of surpassing courage and defiance were commonplace.and they made my own attempts at rebellion seem minor in comparison." Throughout Faith of My Fathers, McCain referred to the heroism of his comrades, whose actions and bravery, McCain suggests, far exceeded his. He was fortunate to serve in the company of heroes, who lifted up and improved McCain, and the others, by their selfless example.

Source: John McCain: An Essay, by John Karaagac, p.117-118 , Sep 20, 2000

It sounds like John McCain and Donald Trump are in agreement, that what McCain did during the Vienam war (Flying a fighter plane in combat, getting shot down and captured, standing up to years of imprisonment and torture, not giving in to enemy demands) was not particularly heroic. They "seem minor in comparison" to what others did, McCain said.

So why are people castigating Donald Trump now? He said what McCain said.

In fact, Trump said that McCain [was a war hero, but then went on to imply that being a hero due to getting captured wasn't as major as what others did. And clearly McCain himself, agrees.

So what's all the furor about now?

The answer is clear, of course: The new media and other leftists are trying to pretend Trump said something outrageous, so they won't have to address what Trump actually said.

Because in most cases, they can't reply to Trump... because Trump is right and they are wrong - something they dare not discuss.

What's the furor been about the last two elections? The right destroying itself.

From a military perspective, I don't know any of us that call ourselves "hero". We did our jobs, by the numbers. While the left keeps chanting we support the troops, not the war and call snipers murderers.

Get YOUR ass out in the sand in a ghillie suit in 115 degree weather and sit without moving for a day and a half. Two canteens of water that tastes like plastic and about 30 rounds of ammo in a bolt action rifle that holds 5 at a time to take out a single target (minus the rest of his company) and didi mao the fuck out of Dodge. Lot of armchair QB's calling names nowadays.

Trump is an idiot and so is McCain. Trump couldn't do what he claims, and McCain is last decade's news. Far as I know, if you wreck 3 jets and allow yourself to be taken prisoner, that don't equal war hero to me. It equals casualty and sorry pilot.

Kathianne

07-19-2015, 05:02 PM

I don't think McCain sounds like he was the best pilot ever turned out, but I've never heard that he purposefully screwed up.

I've always felt that anyone who served honorably in the armed forces, police, fire departments is a hero. So do lots of kids, they often choose a family member who has served or is serving in any of those positions.

Now I grant that there are different levels of 'heroes' in the sense that some pay the ultimate price, some sustain horrendous injuries. If ANY of them died or were injured because of their own stupid move, in one time or place, does that make them less of a hero? That seems to be where this discussion has gone.

I do believe one of the things I read on the door to the military depot shot up on Thursday was, "Heroes don't brag." (not said, but implied, they don't have to.) McCain, Gunny, AboutTime, others are following that today.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hero

Full Definition of HERO1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endow) with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illustrious) warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noble[1]) qualities
d : one who shows great courage

Jeff

07-19-2015, 05:05 PM

My personal opinion on this is any man or woman that went over seas and did there job is a hero in my eyes, some more than others but my hat is off to all.

LongTermGuy

07-19-2015, 06:22 PM

McCain never pointed to his own experience as heroic--quite the contrary. "Incidents of surpassing courage and defiance were commonplace.and they made my own attempts at rebellion seem minor in comparison." Throughout Faith of My Fathers, McCain referred to the heroism of his comrades, whose actions and bravery, McCain suggests, far exceeded his. He was fortunate to serve in the company of heroes, who lifted up and improved McCain, and the others, by their selfless example.

Source: John McCain: An Essay, by John Karaagac, p.117-118 , Sep 20, 2000

It sounds like John McCain and Donald Trump are in agreement, that what McCain did during the Vienam war (Flying a fighter plane in combat, getting shot down and captured, standing up to years of imprisonment and torture, not giving in to enemy demands) was not particularly heroic. They "seem minor in comparison" to what others did, McCain said.

So why are people castigating Donald Trump now? He said what McCain said.

In fact, Trump said that McCain [was a war hero, but then went on to imply that being a hero due to getting captured wasn't as major as what others did. And clearly McCain himself, agrees.

So what's all the furor about now?

The answer is clear, of course: The new media and other leftists are trying to pretend Trump said something outrageous, so they won't have to address what Trump actually said.

Because in most cases, they can't reply to Trump... because Trump is right and they are wrong - something they dare not discuss.

You are correct..it is all about spin and twist by the Left...Maybe even the rumors by some that McCain ate well when captured (but just rumors)....or the McCain s wife thing... she had Cancer and was left for another women...*Trump didn't bring these things up...he just said it like it was ....because McCain drew first blood on the "crazies thing" ....Both McCain and Kerry are Losers...

Gunny

07-19-2015, 06:30 PM

I don't think McCain sounds like he was the best pilot ever turned out, but I've never heard that he purposefully screwed up.

I've always felt that anyone who served honorably in the armed forces, police, fire departments is a hero. So do lots of kids, they often choose a family member who has served or is serving in any of those positions.

Now I grant that there are different levels of 'heroes' in the sense that some pay the ultimate price, some sustain horrendous injuries. If ANY of them died or were injured because of their own stupid move, in one time or place, does that make them less of a hero? That seems to be where this discussion has gone.

I do believe one of the things I read on the door to the military depot shot up on Thursday was, "Heroes don't brag." (not said, but implied, they don't have to.) McCain, Gunny, AboutTime, others are following that today.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hero

The problem I have with McCain is he needs to just shut up. SO does Trump. I don't care who likes either one of them, neither are going to win crap. They don't need to divide the right in their one-upsmanship.

As far as his ability as a pilot goes, that isn't an issue to me except people keep making it one. If you fly planes, you aren't a hero for flying planes, you're doing your job. John Basillone was hero. Audie Murphy was a hero. Step up like they did and I'll call you a hero. The firefighters in NYC on 911? Those were heroes. The rest of us just do what we trained every day to do.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

07-19-2015, 06:43 PM

My personal opinion on this is any man or woman that went over seas and did there job is a hero in my eyes, some more than others but my hat is off to all.
Well , even if once a hero(which is disputable IMHO) what is a man that changes and dishonors this nation, serves to help the destroyers of our Constitution, Rule of Law, culture and ultimately this nation?
Is it once a hero always a hero despite horrid, self-serving and downright backstabbing actions against ones own political party to garner favor with the opposition? Is it chastising an old lady and telling her she is wrong about obama- then compound that gross error and lie by openly swearing obama is an honorable man? Is it helping the dems defeat Republican stands on important issues being considered by CONGRESS?
I simply despise the man myself.
And yes, I'll say that to any man alive face to face and back my play to the damn hilt(not directed at you my friend)!-Tyr

Kathianne

07-19-2015, 06:54 PM

The problem I have with McCain is he needs to just shut up. SO does Trump. I don't care who likes either one of them, neither are going to win crap. They don't need to divide the right in their one-upsmanship.

As far as his ability as a pilot goes, that isn't an issue to me except people keep making it one. If you fly planes, you aren't a hero for flying planes, you're doing your job. John Basillone was hero. Audie Murphy was a hero. Step up like they did and I'll call you a hero. The firefighters in NYC on 911? Those were heroes. The rest of us just do what we trained every day to do.

Drafted or enlisted, those that served are my heroes. I've expanded on the other thread. I've also included any police or fire.

Even if any of these folks have never had to fire a gun, never had to run into a dangerous situation to rescue another, they chose to honorably do what is required. Their politics or even their lives after service will not diminish what they did then.

I've been hearing 'how far we've fallen,' well when it becomes 'courageous and speaking truth to power' to put down those that have given a part of their life to serving others, yes, we have fallen greatly.

Gunny

07-19-2015, 06:59 PM

Well , even if once a hero(which is disputable IMHO) what is a man that changes and dishonors this nation, serves to help the destroyers of our Constitution, Rule of Law, culture and ultimately this nation?
Is it once a hero always a hero despite horrid, self-serving and downright backstabbing actions against ones own political party to garner favor with the opposition? Is it chastising an old lady and telling her she is wrong about obama- then compound that gross error and lie by openly swearing obama is an honorable man? Is it helping the dems defeat Republican stands on important issues being considered by CONGRESS?
I simply despise the man myself.
And yes, I'll say that to any man alive face to face and back my play to the damn hilt(not directed at you my friend)!-Tyr

I'd call that a traitor.

Benedict Arnold was one of our best generals, if not THE best. He didn't get the attention he thought he was due and sold out. The British didn't even like him because of the fact he sold out, even though he sold out to them. He died a major in the British Army, a man without a country.

Treason is treason. Obama thinks he is above the law and the Constitution doesn't apply to him. Is he still on 4 unconstitutional deals this week, or did I miss #5?

Kathianne

07-19-2015, 07:02 PM

I'd call that a traitor.

Benedict Arnold was one of our best generals, if not THE best. He didn't get the attention he thought he was due and sold out. The British didn't even like him because of the fact he sold out, even though he sold out to them. He died a major in the British Army, a man without a country.

Treason is treason. Obama thinks he is above the law and the Constitution doesn't apply to him. Is he still on 4 unconstitutional deals this week, or did I miss #5?

Arnold did not serve honorably.

I do know he was one of the top generals, but hubris caused his traitorous actions.

If I didn't agree with all of Eisenhower's or Washington's actions as political figures, that would not mitigate their actions as military.

Kathianne

07-19-2015, 07:03 PM

I have major problems with evaluating someone's service via politics.

tailfins

07-19-2015, 07:08 PM

Gunny

07-19-2015, 09:26 PM

Arnold did not serve honorably.

I do know he was one of the top generals, but hubris caused his traitorous actions.

If I didn't agree with all of Eisenhower's or Washington's actions as political figures, that would not mitigate their actions as military.

He actually did serve honorably until he was wounded in New Jersey. He also had a hissy fit because he thought he deserved Washington's job. Up until he sold out because he was jealous, he was arguably one on the best generals we had. Washington was not anything to brag about as a military leader. The Revolution was won by Francis Marion is SC and Benjamin Franklin making a deal with the French. He was otherwise losing his but off.

Washington had one brilliant move and it was crossing the Delaware. Eisenhower was a desk jockey that got his position more for being a diplomat than have a clue about what was going on.

Kathianne

07-19-2015, 09:39 PM

He actually did serve honorably until he was wounded in New Jersey. He also had a hissy fit because he thought he deserved Washington's job. Up until he sold out because he was jealous, he was arguably one on the best generals we had. Washington was not anything to brag about as a military leader. The Revolution was won by Francis Marion is SC and Benjamin Franklin making a deal with the French. He was otherwise losing his but off.

Washington had one brilliant move and it was crossing the Delaware. Eisenhower was a desk jockey that got his position more for being a diplomat than have a clue about what was going on.

I don't dispute any of what you've written, bottom line does come down to serving honorably-the whole time. That Washington wasn't the best general in tactics and even choosing other leaders is pretty well known. However leading and inspiring were crucial and he excelled at that.

Again what you said regarding Ike is pretty much taken for granted. For the position a diplomat is what was needed. He was both humble enough and responsible enough to realize that if D-Day failed, he would shoulder the blame.

Heroes don't have to be on the front, though Washington was enough to have several close calls. Heroes just have to do what others don't routinely do for the greater good.

Jeff

07-19-2015, 10:04 PM

Well , even if once a hero(which is disputable IMHO) what is a man that changes and dishonors this nation, serves to help the destroyers of our Constitution, Rule of Law, culture and ultimately this nation?
Is it once a hero always a hero despite horrid, self-serving and downright backstabbing actions against ones own political party to garner favor with the opposition? Is it chastising an old lady and telling her she is wrong about obama- then compound that gross error and lie by openly swearing obama is an honorable man? Is it helping the dems defeat Republican stands on important issues being considered by CONGRESS?
I simply despise the man myself.
And yes, I'll say that to any man alive face to face and back my play to the damn hilt(not directed at you my friend)!-Tyr

Honestly buddy, if a soldier serves over seas and comes home and becomes a child molester then no he is not a hero. I am not playing with politics just giving my opinion is all. In now way was a trying to say anything other than exactly what I typed, as for all the other, well I figured common sense takes over then.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

07-19-2015, 10:19 PM

Arnold did not serve honorably.

I do know he was one of the top generals, but hubris caused his traitorous actions.

If I didn't agree with all of Eisenhower's or Washington's actions as political figures, that would not mitigate their actions as military.

If I didn't agree with all of Eisenhower's or Washington's actions as political figures, that would not mitigate their actions as military.
My friend , neither of those two men did anything like McCain has done IMHO. Both those men maintained for the greater part the character and principles that were the basis for their service, fame and honor.
Sad to say McCain , long ago, put his aside to further his ambition to one day be President. He sold out his honor and still failed to get the crown. Which is all my personal view based upon what I 've found out by studying his life story.
However, he can not ride to the grave with what he was in his 20's.
Especially since he entered politics and stabbed his own party in the back numerous times.
The way I see it, his previous war record doesn't give him a free pass to later be a rat that helps harm this nation so greatly.

What is a hero that later so greatly betrays his sacred principles???? -Tyr

Gunny

07-19-2015, 10:29 PM

Actually, if you read the UCMJ, it's OVER-ALL conduct of service, not one act; although, I'll give you a break on the treason thing. That is probably, according to law, the one thing you can do that negates anything else you ever did. Unless you are Bergdhal and Obama is President.

As far as Eisenhower goes, you're talking like a civilian. He made political concilliation especially to that megalomaniac Montgomery that got a lot people needlessly killed. Let's talk Operation Market Garden.

Operation Overlord was needless and stupid. Gee, let's take a bunch of Higgins boats that open in the front and attack a beach the Germans spent 6 years mining, tripping, and practicing their overlapping fields of fire. More people came out of those Higgins boats over the side than out the ramp. End of the day, we just threw more bodies at them than they had. As a grunt, I'm just not real keen on that plan. It's stupid frontal assault and war by attrition.

Yeah, we all lose troops, but I'd prefer for it to be for a reason other than a game of who has more bodies.

indago

07-19-2015, 10:49 PM

I don't dispute any of what you've written, bottom line does come down to serving honorably-the whole time. That Washington wasn't the best general in tactics and even choosing other leaders is pretty well known. However leading and inspiring were crucial and he excelled at that.

Again what you said regarding Ike is pretty much taken for granted. For the position a diplomat is what was needed. He was both humble enough and responsible enough to realize that if D-Day failed, he would shoulder the blame.

Heroes don't have to be on the front, though Washington was enough to have several close calls. Heroes just have to do what others don't routinely do for the greater good.

I am recalling, from one of the history books I read, about a house maid who was passing by a room inhabited by General Washington during the Revolutionary War, and she heard him sobbing and talking to himself. It was recalled that he was faced with squabbling generals who favored finger pointing for some their failures, and blaming Washington himself now and then. Also, he was faced with a lack of funding from the Congress, and relied heavily on the resources of the soldiers under his command to provide for food and shelter for the troops. And faced with all these difficulties, he managed to hold the whole thing together and come out on top.

Gunny

07-19-2015, 11:17 PM

I am recalling, from one of the history books I read, about a house maid who was passing by a room inhabited by General Washington during the Revolutionary War, and she heard him sobbing and talking to himself. It was recalled that he was faced with squabbling generals who favored finger pointing for some their failures, and blaming Washington himself now and then. Also, he was faced with a lack of funding from the Congress, and relied heavily on the resources of the soldiers under his command to provide for food and shelter for the troops. And faced with all these difficulties, he managed to hold the whole thing together and come out on top.

Sort of. The one thing France ever did was bail us out of the American Revolution. I don't know about the persona Washington stories. What I do know is this:

Armed rebels using unconventional tactics won the war. Starting with Concord, a bunch of rednecks kicked some ass. Washington won only one set-piece battle using Napoleonic tactics and the French were half the force.

Lesson learned: When you got no money don't screw with Southern rednecks. We'll get along with anyone until you try to tell us what to do in our yard. That's what the damned Revolution aka tyranny against our king for you yankees was all about.

Kathianne

07-20-2015, 04:16 AM

My friend , neither of those two men did anything like McCain has done IMHO. Both those men maintained for the greater part the character and principles that were the basis for their service, fame and honor.
Sad to say McCain , long ago, put his aside to further his ambition to one day be President. He sold out his honor and still failed to get the crown. Which is all my personal view based upon what I 've found out by studying his life story.
However, he can not ride to the grave with what he was in his 20's.
Especially since he entered politics and stabbed his own party in the back numerous times.
The way I see it, his previous war record doesn't give him a free pass to later be a rat that helps harm this nation so greatly.

What is a hero that later so greatly betrays his sacred principles???? -Tyr

You have the right to use whatever you want to judge others. McCain the politician I can agree with. His not being a hero when he served? Sorry, not going there. Pitting those 'captured' POW's, those 'Not captured' just doesn't sound like a good idea. Doesn't sound proud of those that served. Doesn't sound like a 'grateful nation.'

Gunny

07-20-2015, 04:42 AM

You have the right to use whatever you want to judge others. McCain the politician I can agree with. His not being a hero when he served? Sorry, not going there. Pitting those 'captured' POW's, those 'Not captured' just doesn't sound like a good idea. Doesn't sound proud of those that served. Doesn't sound like a 'grateful nation.'

Oh goodie. I get to disagree with another mean woman on the board. :laugh:

McCain wasn't a hero. The left has over-used the word. Let's try this from another POV. He was a Naval aviator. I counted on them for close air support. I had 40 Marines to look out for and I wanted to take every swinging d*ck back with me. I don't eve know the name of my "hero". I called for CAS and he showed up out of nowhere in an F-18A and made the bad guys disappear. In a ball of fire.

Now suppose he was McCain who decided to crash another Navy jet? We'd have been screwed. My other favorite pilot flew a 46. He didn't even have to touch down. He dropped the ramp and we got on board. THAT is a hero and a serious set of stones.

You're a school teacher. Words have meanings. "hero" denotes above and beyond the call of duty, not just doing your job. As a Naval aviator, McCain couldn't even do that. I think the Navy let him get captured just so they didn't run out planes.:laugh:

Jeff

07-20-2015, 04:45 AM

Oh goodie. I get to disagree with another mean woman on the board. :laugh:

McCain wasn't a hero. The left has over-used the word. Let's try this from another POV. He was a Naval aviator. I counted on them for close air support. I had 40 Marines to look out for and I wanted to take every swinging d*ck back with me. I don't eve know the name of my "hero". I called for CAS and he showed up out of nowhere in an F-18A and made the bad guys disappear. In a ball of fire.

Now suppose he was McCain who decided to crash another Navy jet? We'd have been screwed. My other favorite pilot flew a 46. He didn't even have to touch down. He dropped the ramp and we got on board. THAT is a hero and a serious set of stones.

You're a school teacher. Words have meanings. "hero" denotes above and beyond the call of duty, not just doing your job. As a Naval aviator, McCain couldn't even do that. I think the Navy let him get captured just so they didn't run out planes.:laugh:

You are a prick... :laugh::laugh::laugh: Funny as hell, but a prick just the same... :thumb:

As for the part not highlighted, that makes a lot of sense Gunny. I am probably guilty of using the word Hero to quickly, but honestly to me any man/woman that has put their life on the line for me is a Hero, now with that said, I see what you are saying. As a military person you are looking at it as a job y'all did and he didn't do his well. But you also have to understand to civilians that have never served we don't want to slight anyone of y'all. I don't believe there is a wrong or right here just 2 different views.

Gunny

07-20-2015, 04:57 AM

You are a prick... :laugh::laugh::laugh: Funny as hell, but a prick just the same... :thumb:

As for the part not highlighted, that makes a lot of sense Gunny. I am probably guilty of using the word Hero to quickly, but honestly to me any man/woman that has put their life on the line for me is a Hero, now with that said, I see what you are saying. As a military person you are looking at it as a job y'all did and he didn't do his well. But you also have to understand to civilians that have never served we don't want to slight anyone of y'all. I don't believe there is a wrong or right here just 2 different views.

Only at 3:30 AM my time. :laugh:

I understand. I've known kathianne forever, I think. We can disagree about the color grass is and still manage to get along. She's got her opinion as entitled to it. And you know I'm so quiet and whatnot about mine ....:laugh:

As far as me being a prick .. gee ... that's something I never heard before. I had to tell my ex to quit calling me asshole because my daughter was calling me asshole when she was a toddler.

Jeff

07-20-2015, 05:11 AM

Only at 3:30 AM my time. :laugh:

I understand. I've known kathianne forever, I think. We can disagree about the color grass is and still manage to get along. She's got her opinion as entitled to it. And you know I'm so quiet and whatnot about mine ....:laugh:

As far as me being a prick .. gee ... that's something I never heard before. I had to tell my ex to quit calling me asshole because my daughter was calling me asshole when she was a toddler.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Gunny that cracks me up, I came in off the road one day when I was with my first wife and the kids said something, like OOO hell your home again ( at like 3 years old ) so I then seen the light, kids are like parrots, so I use to teach them all weekend all kinds of nice things :laugh::laugh:

As for Kat, she is cool as hell, love her, and you are 100% correct, she can and will debate anyone at any time and still walk away friends, well sometimes she pisses me off cause she wins. :laugh::laugh: ( she is a little to smart sometimes ) :laugh:

Kathianne

07-20-2015, 05:11 AM

Oh goodie. I get to disagree with another mean woman on the board. :laugh:

McCain wasn't a hero. The left has over-used the word. Let's try this from another POV. He was a Naval aviator. I counted on them for close air support. I had 40 Marines to look out for and I wanted to take every swinging d*ck back with me. I don't eve know the name of my "hero". I called for CAS and he showed up out of nowhere in an F-18A and made the bad guys disappear. In a ball of fire.

Now suppose he was McCain who decided to crash another Navy jet? We'd have been screwed. My other favorite pilot flew a 46. He didn't even have to touch down. He dropped the ramp and we got on board. THAT is a hero and a serious set of stones.

You're a school teacher. Words have meanings. "hero" denotes above and beyond the call of duty, not just doing your job. As a Naval aviator, McCain couldn't even do that. I think the Navy let him get captured just so they didn't run out planes.:laugh:

Gunny, I already defined my position on 'heroes,' not going to keep repeating. Bergdahl and that ilk are recognized by us civilians for the slime they are.

Not all are cut out for the positions they are in, be it military or any other. I'll give you the failure of McCain's flying abilities, I believe I already did.

There's no doubt McCain could have avoided service just as Trump did. (All healthy in '66; too many problems by '68.) Both we're very privileged white boys, (along with GW), back then.

McCain chose to serve. Trump chose not to.

All Trump has done is behaved from teens to this day as an entitled rich boy. Indeed his use of the word, "I" is already giving Obama a run for the prize.

I'm not defending McCain the politician, I believe I ripped him quite well back when. He does merit the use of hero to me, as do all that I've already written about.

Here's some more that 'chose to be captured':

http://nypost.com/2014/02/15/tortured-in-vietnams-worst-prison-11-us-soldiers-were-unbreakable/

Kathianne

07-20-2015, 06:57 AM

I respect, though disagree with Gunny's take on McCain. More problematic for me though is Trump's take, I'm glad there's a vet that sees that and the harm Trump's remarks may cause:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trump-vile-slap-mccain-insults-veterans-article-1.2297306

GUEST COLUMN: Trump's vile comments on McCain an insult to all veterans

BY PAUL RIECKHOFF (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors?author=Paul-Rieckhoff)
SPECIAL TO NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Sunday, July 19, 2015, 9:00 PM
Updated: Monday, July 20, 2015, 1:45 AM

...

I lead Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, the fastest growing post-9/11 veterans group in America — and the only national veterans organization headquartered in New York. I felt like I’d heard it all. Well, clearly, I was wrong.

...

I have had the honor of working with Sen. McCain on key veterans legislation, including the Clay Hunt Suicide Prevention for American Veterans Act, which was signed into law by President Obama earlier this year.

He is very capable of defending himself, but a public attack on one veteran’s service is an attack on us all. Trump’s stupidity is especially egregious given its timing — right after the murder of one sailor and four Marines last week in Chattanooga, Tenn.

But there may actually be a silver lining in Trump’s absurdity. Hopefully, it will push every single presidential candidate from both parties to present their own real, specific platform on veterans issues. So far, not one of them has. But it’s not just the presidential candidates that have failed our veterans.

In the end, this isn’t really about Trump. It’s about the more than 20 million veterans in America who have put our lives on the line in defense of our freedom only to see our service disrespected for too long by politicians from both parties.

Last Tuesday, our office in New York received four calls from suicidal veterans. Four in a single day. Our veterans are literally calling out for help every single day.

Veterans are not a charity, we’re an investment. It’s long past time for Trump and everyone else who says they “support the veterans” to step up and put their money where their mouths are. Promote good policies, listen to our community, donate your time and money, or walk on down to the recruiting office in Times Square and enlist.

I’m sure Uncle Sam would be happy to consider an age waiver — and it even comes with a free haircut. A few minutes in boot camp and Mr. Trump would understand forever why Sen. McCain is a hero. And why every American has a moral obligation to support him and every other veteran.

Paul Rieckhoff is the founder and CEO of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, a 9/11 first responder and the author of “Chasing Ghosts.”

DragonStryk72

07-20-2015, 07:53 AM

McCain never pointed to his own experience as heroic--quite the contrary. "Incidents of surpassing courage and defiance were commonplace.and they made my own attempts at rebellion seem minor in comparison." Throughout Faith of My Fathers, McCain referred to the heroism of his comrades, whose actions and bravery, McCain suggests, far exceeded his. He was fortunate to serve in the company of heroes, who lifted up and improved McCain, and the others, by their selfless example.

Source: John McCain: An Essay, by John Karaagac, p.117-118 , Sep 20, 2000

It sounds like John McCain and Donald Trump are in agreement, that what McCain did during the Vienam war (Flying a fighter plane in combat, getting shot down and captured, standing up to years of imprisonment and torture, not giving in to enemy demands) was not particularly heroic. They "seem minor in comparison" to what others did, McCain said.

So why are people castigating Donald Trump now? He said what McCain said.

In fact, Trump said that McCain [was a war hero, but then went on to imply that being a hero due to getting captured wasn't as major as what others did. And clearly McCain himself, agrees.

So what's all the furor about now?

The answer is clear, of course: The new media and other leftists are trying to pretend Trump said something outrageous, so they won't have to address what Trump actually said.

Because in most cases, they can't reply to Trump... because Trump is right and they are wrong - something they dare not discuss.

There is a difference, Trump statement was dismissive of acts of courage, whereas for McCain himself, it's more a matter of seeing other as more deserving than himself. Trump's statement came across as an insult due to context of the statement.