Why this black defender of the Confederate flag says slavery was ‘a choice’

[Jeff]

I think this makes a lot of sense and I applaud this young lady, time to put the racist behind us and pull together and move forward. You will never get the flag to stop being flown completely and it shouldn't be, so take what ever bright side you can and move on.



For many Americans, the Confederate battle flag is an unmistakable symbol of slavery and oppression.
But for Karen Cooper, a black woman who was born in New York but later settled in Virginia, the flag embodies something else entirely.
“I actually think that it represents freedom,” the ardent tea party supporter says in a video interview (https://vimeo.com/126991396) that’s been making the rounds online. “It represents a people who stood up to tyranny.”

[I am a black South Carolinian. Here’s why I support the Confederate flag.] (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/24/i-am-a-black-south-carolinian-heres-why-i-support-the-confederate-flag/)
Cooper is a member of the Virginia Flaggers, an activist group that rejects the idea that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/30/why-some-black-defenders-of-the-confederate-flag-believe-slavery-was-a-choice/

[revelarts]

It's not Black people that carry the Rebel Flag when it means racism or hate.

go talk to the KKK and the Roof kid tell them it's not about hate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JLjrfdstX4

the Flag is a 2 sided coin at best.
there's NO way for anyone to automatically tell WHAT the flag means to the whites who carry it.
sorry the history is what it is.

[revelarts]

I think this makes a lot of sense ...


Concerning her argument.
She said she thinks "slavery is (was) a choice" and points to Patrick Henry's word "give me liberty or give me death".
OK so she's saying that all the slaves should have rebelled and killed their southern and northern masters or died trying at the hands of the slavematers or maybe killed themselves . So it's the SLAVES fault that confederacy kept slaves? And it's slaves fault that the confederates wrote slavery into it's constitution with finality? the slaves fault that south seceded. If they had rebelled and killed the southerner slave owners themselves then there'd have bee no slavery in the south... or north.and no mass southern secession.

i guess she's got a point.

She said slavery was all over the world true. I guess they all should have just died and it was there fault they were captured and their fault they were sold, and their fault they were bought?

OK... well i disagree.
But she goes on to say that the federal gov't is a tyranny today she can't smoke where she wants etc. and that's "slavery".
but she's still alive? why doesn't she go to jail for her right to smoke etc or kill herself?
liberty or death right?

Don't get me wrong I LOVE the Patrick Henry Speech. LOVE IT.
But she's using the word slavery as hyperbole like Henry used it. "slavery" of an oppressive gov't is terrible but it's not slavery in fact. So it seems to me she's also being a bit flip about real slavery. Just as Henry was sadly being hypocritical since Henry owned slaves.


I wish people would just say.
The guys that used the flag wanted to perpetuated slavery but that's not what I want to use it for.
That at least acknowledges the facts.
Rather than pretend the South was really for "freedom" -sheesh- that just kinda makes me sick.

Confederate secession was not about freedom, they lost NO freedoms when they rejoined the union, NONE.
Except the "freedom" to own slaves.
please let me know of any other freedoms they loss if i'm wrong here?

[revelarts]

, time to put the racist behind us and pull together and move forward. You will never get the flag to stop being flown completely and it shouldn't be, so take what ever bright side you can and move on.


with or without the flag racist should be put behind us and pull together.

But just as you don't want people to change the meaning YOU see in the flag, I see no reason why i should change the meaning I see in it because of it's oppressive dark and bloody history and the fact that some idiot whites STILL used it as a symbol of the idea of racial supremcy and hate.

Keep the flag if you like, but it is a 2 sided coin.

[Jeff]

OK Rev so the whole world ought to change because you and other blacks see things one way, yea , OK, when do we stop this ? The world has changed to accommodate the black way of thought, just look at Baltimore, Ferguson,and any of the other inner cities across this country, perfect examples. Racism needs to stop period no matter which side, as for the flag if you don't like it don't fly it, I hate to see the African flag flying here in America, as well as any of the flags from other countries, I think African American is stupid as is Italian American and so on, if you where born here you are American with African roots ( not to be confused with the movie :laugh: that is a joke Rev )but I don't run around ripping them down nor do I burn the cities down that I see them in. :rolleyes: Rev this can be booted around for ever, or until y'all turn America into one big Ghetto, but seriously I think we both believe it is time to end racist hatred, we both know it can never happen 100% that is exactly why back in 2000 they tried a compromise, the blacks screamed take the flag off of the top of the State house, and of course the whites said no, Black wins but they threw the white a bone and put it at a monument, now y'all want that gone as well ( I think they call they getting your cake and eating it to ) what's next after the flag is removed Rev, is it then time to remove the Monument ?? Rev there has to be a compromise on both sides and so far it is all your way or we will burn the bitch down, yup hell of a compromise. :poke:

[gabosaurus]

Finally found a black person that DP approves of. Will wonders never cease. :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

did i say anything about removing the flag Jeff? no. why are rambling about that.
(make the whole country into redneckvile)


But did you read this one.

with or without the flag racist should be put behind us and we should pull together.
But just as you don't want people to change the meaning YOU see in the flag, I see no reason why i should change the meaning I see in it because of it's oppressive dark and bloody history and the fact that some idiot whites STILL used it as a symbol of the idea of racial supremcy and hate.

Keep the flag if you like, but it is a 2 sided coin.


Keep the flag if you like JEFF . please don't pretend that i'm trying to take it from you. you say you don't even live those states either.
Keep your personal flags, enjoy whatever flag you like, and be comfortable knowing that no one in that flies it hates you because your color.
I don't have that luxury do i?

[Jeff]

did i say anything about removing the flag Jeff? no. why are rambling about that.
(make the whole country into redneckvile)

Yes you did and below is a link to just one of the post you made saying it should be removed from the state house but you don't have a problem with it being used privately.


But did you read this one.



Keep the flag if you like JEFF . please don't pretend that i'm trying to take it from you. you say you don't even live those states either.
Keep your personal flags, enjoy whatever flag you like, and be comfortable knowing that no one in that flies it hates you because your color.
I don't have that luxury do i?

You have never said the flag should be removed from the state house property Rev, you are a liar, I won't even bother to look it up but I can still remember laughing as I read your post how people can keep it if they want but it should be removed from the state house, wow Rev at least your word use to be good.

And Rev I would much rather live in Redneckville than the effing Ghetto, hey man move to Baltimore, I hear they are looking for some fine brothers just like you.

As for taking the flag from me, in your effing dreams, :laugh: I would love to see you or any of your racist brothers try to remove mine, I will fly it proudly for as long and anywhere I wish !!

As for luxuries Rev, my neighbor is black as are many in the south, that think you folks should mind your own business, just as you say I can have the flag if I want, well hell if it offends you then don't fly it, but let those that wish to do just that, when they enter your neighborhood, hell your state then you will have a say.


So you never said anything about removing the flag huh,








I've already stated that I'm against banning for private use.
but um,
so special "pandering" etc. is the.. or a.. major cause of racism?
So what was the cause of racism when blacks were slaves and during jim crow and pre-civil rights then?

And funny there's no mention of equal treatment by police and justice system and the like just the so called "special" favor of being Black in america.





I guess private use is meaning, I am all for leaving it at the state capitol, yet another lie !!!


Here ya go Rev, http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?50239-Church-killings-reignite-debate-on-South-Carolina-flying-Confederate-battle-flag/page3

[darin]

Finally found a black person that DP approves of. Will wonders never cease. :rolleyes:

Uh...I'm black.

[Jeff]

Uh...I'm black.

And I approve of dmp.

[LongTermGuy]

And I approve of dmp.


*How about me...I have a hint of Olive (Serb Blood) :cool:

Good Morning Jeff...:coffee:

[revelarts]

You have never said the flag should be removed from the state house property Rev, you are a liar, I won't even bother to look it up but I can still remember laughing as I read your post how people can keep it if they want but it should be removed from the state house, wow Rev at least your word use to be good.

And Rev I would much rather live in Redneckville than the effing Ghetto, hey man move to Baltimore, I hear they are looking for some fine brothers just like you.

As for taking the flag from me, in your effing dreams, :laugh: I would love to see you or any of your racist brothers try to remove mine, I will fly it proudly for as long and anywhere I wish !!

As for luxuries Rev, my neighbor is black as are many in the south, that think you folks should mind your own business, just as you say I can have the flag if I want, well hell if it offends you then don't fly it, but let those that wish to do just that, when they enter your neighborhood, hell your state then you will have a say.


So you never said anything about removing the flag huh,




I guess private use is meaning, I am all for leaving it at the state capitol, yet another lie !!!


Here ya go Rev, http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?50239-Church-killings-reignite-debate-on-South-Carolina-flying-Confederate-battle-flag/page3


not in this thread Jeff.
Look you posted a Black woman with a rebel flag making a defense of it's use.
I commented on that video.
You went rambling off "in reply" telling me we should''t ban it. what the Heck Jeff?

stop bringing things over from other threads Sheesh Louise. whats up with that?:whistling2:

And BTW i live in Virginia I guess that not "southern" enough for ya, you told me since i don't live in the states effected i shouldn't even comment, does the same go for you? ynot

Seems to me you're now the official campaign chair for the rebel flag for president committee.... get off the hobby horse bro.... lighten up your rants of the flag.... how many threads you gonna make... if the flags so great why don't you marry it that's probably legal now so go for it..... more defense of the rebel flag here than the U.S. flag ever got... you have stock in rebel flag company .... you getting paid a nickel every time you type about the flag... did the flag save your baby or give you a job when you needed one..or sumthin' :poke:

[jimnyc]

Met my wife while she was living in Alexandria. She grew up in Fairfax. I think Warrenton? for a spell as well. Quite a mixture there. Some yankees, some die hard southerners. She even took me to the "mason dixon line" which passes through the Alexandria area (if I recall correctly). But Virginia CAN be as south as Georgia and SC, I think it depends on where you go. I'd like to move to Alexandria again if I could.

Sorry for the OT. :)

[fj1200]

But Virginia CAN be as south as Georgia and SC, I think it depends on where you go.

Parts of FL are even in the South. :poke:

[jimnyc]

Parts of FL are even in the South. :poke:

You dirty filthy bastard!! :)

I suppose I'm in the south too, if you're from Maine. But I still hate you.

Honestly though, there were times when I was in VA that I thought I was in a "bible belt" area of southern folks, but when in the city area of Alexandria, it felt more like the north. (and yes, I know it's north virginia, aka NOVA)

[fj1200]

You dirty filthy bastard!! :)

I suppose I'm in the south too, if you're from Maine. But I still hate you.

Honestly though, there were times when I was in VA that I thought I was in a "bible belt" area of southern folks, but when in the city area of Alexandria, it felt more like the north. (and yes, I know it's north virginia, aka NOVA)

:teehee: Actually I was saying that all the retirees from the North who moved to FL took the North with them. All the NY folks moved down I-95 and all the MI folks moved down I-75. The panhandle of FL is like concentrated South I think, it's not the Redneck Riviera for nothing. :scared:

And Atlanta didn't get all these people because the natives had a baby boom either.

[jimnyc]

:teehee: Actually I was saying that all the retirees from the North who moved to FL took the North with them. All the NY folks moved down I-95 and all the MI folks moved down I-75. The panhandle of FL is like concentrated South I think, it's not the Redneck Riviera for nothing. :scared:

And Atlanta didn't get all these people because the natives had a baby boom either.

Florida I like to visit, but too hot to stay, and too many retirees. Maybe if my wife agreed to Daytona or Fort Lauderdale? Maybe I'm getting old for the partying though? :)

I'll move south one day, but don't worry, I'm like a southerner moving south.

[DragonStryk72]

It's not Black people that carry the Rebel Flag when it means racism or hate.

go talk to the KKK and the Roof kid tell them it's not about hate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JLjrfdstX4

the Flag is a 2 sided coin at best.
there's NO way for anyone to automatically tell WHAT the flag means to the whites who carry it.
sorry the history is what it is.

And that means we should run away screaming why? There are people on both sides of this debate of all races. So why is it that we should always kowtow to the offended, as though it gives them rights?

[darin]

banning the flag is nearly as absurd as banning white bed sheets or robes. (sigh).

[Jeff]

*How about me...I have a hint of Olive (Serb Blood) :cool:

Good Morning Jeff...:coffee:

Approved and good afternoon at this point. :laugh:

[Jeff]

not in this thread Jeff.
Look you posted a Black woman with a rebel flag making a defense of it's use.
I commented on that video.
You went rambling off "in reply" telling me we should''t ban it. what the Heck Jeff?

stop bringing things over from other threads Sheesh Louise. whats up with that?:whistling2:

Come on Rev, whether this thread or one from yesterday you absolutely said it needs to be removed, no not from personal use but from and government building, and that is all I showed.

And BTW i live in Virginia I guess that not "southern" enough for ya, you told me since i don't live in the states effected i shouldn't even comment, does the same go for you? ynot

A read all post posted today, GA is included, so quit whining :crying2:

Seems to me you're now the official campaign chair for the rebel flag for president committee.... get off the hobby horse bro.... lighten up your rants of the flag.... how many threads you gonna make... if the flags so great why don't you marry it that's probably legal now so go for it..... more defense of the rebel flag here than the U.S. flag ever got... you have stock in rebel flag company .... you getting paid a nickel every time you type about the flag... did the flag save your baby or give you a job when you needed one..or sumthin' :poke:

I am not the one crying how it effect my everyday life,or how I can't live life another day with it flying 300 miles away :rolleyes: you may think you are cute with these little BS sessions,but it is beneath you Rev, you are much bigger than that and because of that you have kept me above the trash as well. As for anyone making a big deal about it, well quite honestly was I even speaking of it before folks decided a flag made a lunatic commit murder ? NO, just the same as you hadn't heard me speak of Black power and all that trash until push comes to shove, Rev you did hit the nail right on the head though, you stated exactly what I have been trying to say, it is a two sided coin,and that is exactly why I feel it coming down off of the state house was OK, but hey lets not forget that two sided coin OK. AS for what the flag has done for me , did the flag ever steal one of your kids, stop you from working, make Momma have a headache when ya had the need, NO, so why worry about it, that is my complaint in a nut shell Rev, nothing more nothing less.

Rev you need to lighten up, come on down and we will go to the dirt track one Saturday night, we will carry a couple of jugs of some Kick A$$ shine and you will see how black and white get along with there being no one worried about what friggin color you are, hell a half hour into the race we will all be red from the dirt :laugh: so it will make no difference. Heck Rev I may just make a southern boy out of ya yet. :thumb:

[Jeff]

:teehee: Actually I was saying that all the retirees from the North who moved to FL took the North with them. All the NY folks moved down I-95 and all the MI folks moved down I-75. The panhandle of FL is like concentrated South I think, it's not the Redneck Riviera for nothing. :scared:

And Atlanta didn't get all these people because the natives had a baby boom either.

The real Rednecks I talk with tell me Florida is a Yankee state, Hell they have more northern accents than southern in just about any place in the state.

[Jeff]

Parts of FL are even in the South. :poke:

Very few parts :laugh:

[Drummond]

Just a quick, and rather simple, question to Revelarts. You say ...


with or without the flag racist should be put behind us and pull together.

A very laudible statement, as it stands. But I question it, when you give such a great impression of working to strive to keep 'racist' connotations to the Confederate flag alive !!

Why, if you mean what you say (above) are you doing that ?

Why not put racial so-called divisions behind you, associations which you choose to concentrate on, ditto ?