Grammar

[Perianne]

While it is considered rude to correct another person's grammatical mistakes, how often do you notice grammar? Is it important to you?

[NightTrain]

Very important.

I'm not as bad as I used to be about being a Grammar Nazi, and I refrain from correcting people for the most part, but it drives me up the wall when I see someone screw up They're, Their and There.

But nothing grinds my teeth more than seeing "So I saw a bunch of car's today."

[Perianne]

Very important.

I'm not as bad as I used to be about being a Grammar Nazi, and I refrain from correcting people for the most part, but it drives me up the wall when I see someone screw up They're, Their and There.

But nothing grinds my teeth more than seeing "So I saw a bunch of car's today."

I don't practice good grammar as rigidly as I should, but it's mostly because I don't want to take the time to look up the proper wordage.

[Drummond]

While it is considered rude to correct another person's grammatical mistakes, how often do you notice grammar? Is it important to you?

-- Hah !!

Should I disqualify myself from the rest of this thread ?? American usage of English is more different to British usage than is generally realised. I could discuss this on a number of levels, but I suggest I'd not be doing so very usefully !!

One thought that comes to mind is that examples might have made it to the level of American slang, and be in such common usage that they're considered acceptable because of it. Me, being a Brit ... it'd be immediately noticeable, and I'd reject it as incorrect to a level of completeness that most Americans wouldn't agree with.

And who am I to judge such things, as, actually, a foreigner, not privy to what is or is not seen as correct in America ?

Here's an example ...


'YOU DUMB'

Now, to me, that's just completely illiterate, and downright crass, and it's tempting to rush to judgment on that basis .. but, I've seen it multiples of times on this very forum. I'm unaware myself that it's correct usage, BUT, to an American, it might be in use enough to be acceptable to other Americans.

So I think I'll bow out of this thread ... since there's too much room for UNINFORMED disagreement ...

[Perianne]

-- Hah !!

Should I disqualify myself from the rest of this thread ?? American usage of English is more different to British usage than is generally realised. I could discuss this on a number of levels, but I suggest I'd not be doing so very usefully !!

One thought that comes to mind is that examples might have made it to the level of American slang, and be in such common usage that they're considered acceptable because of it. Me, being a Brit ... it'd be immediately noticeable, and I'd reject it as incorrect to a level of completeness that most Americans wouldn't agree with.

And who am I to judge such things, as, actually, a foreigner, not privy to what is or is not seen as correct in America ?

Here's an example ...



Now, to me, that's just completely illiterate, and downright crass, and it's tempting to rush to judgment on that basis .. but, I've seen it multiples of times on this very forum. I'm unaware myself that it's correct usage, BUT, to an American, it might be in use enough to be acceptable to other Americans.

So I think I'll bow out of this thread ... since there's too much room for UNINFORMED disagreement ...

NO! You continue in this thread as you are an intellectual person.

"You dumb" is black talk; something you haven't had the privilege of enjoying day after day until you want to pull your hair out.

[Drummond]

NO! You continue in this thread as you are an intellectual person.

Very sweet of you to say so ! Not sure I agree, but anyway ....


"You dumb" is black talk; something you haven't had the privilege of enjoying day after day until you want to pull your hair out.

Oh, I see.

Still, does that illustrate my point ? If there's a certain 'street cred' aspect to it, then we get to whether it's accepted, or ought to be (or not ?) ..

[NightTrain]

Yeah, "you dumb" screams illiteracy. Here on DP, I think it's more of a typo or a missed key strike of someone typing quickly.


American usage of English is more different to British usage than is generally realised. You misspelled 'realized'. :slap:

[PixieStix]

While it is considered rude to correct another person's grammatical mistakes, how often do you notice grammar? Is it important to you?

Not really.

I hear people say, "expecially", and type "to", when it should be too. I just sigh and go on with my own business. It just rubs me wrong. No biggie

[Abbey Marie]

-- Hah !!

Should I disqualify myself from the rest of this thread ?? American usage of English is more different to British usage than is generally realised. I could discuss this on a number of levels, but I suggest I'd not be doing so very usefully !!

One thought that comes to mind is that examples might have made it to the level of American slang, and be in such common usage that they're considered acceptable because of it. Me, being a Brit ... it'd be immediately noticeable, and I'd reject it as incorrect to a level of completeness that most Americans wouldn't agree with.

And who am I to judge such things, as, actually, a foreigner, not privy to what is or is not seen as correct in America ?

Here's an example ...



Now, to me, that's just completely illiterate, and downright crass, and it's tempting to rush to judgment on that basis .. but, I've seen it multiples of times on this very forum. I'm unaware myself that it's correct usage, BUT, to an American, it might be in use enough to be acceptable to other Americans.

So I think I'll bow out of this thread ... since there's too much room for UNINFORMED disagreement ...

Drummond, that IS completely illiterate, and not acceptable in America, either. The fact that one is criticized for pointing out a glaring grammar mistake, is just another spoke in the wheel of America's fall from excellence. It is another instance of "who are you to judge my mediocrity?!"

Which is all the rave these days, doncha know? ;)

[Perianne]

Even when texting, I use proper grammar.

[aboutime]

When I no longer hear Americans refer to questions with an AX, instead of ASK. Nobody, but Nobody should be offended when they feel a need to criticize anyone's Grammar.

There are many examples ALL OF US have heard, but to avoid being labeled as Racists, or for Profiling.....we choose the Politically Correct, Liberal path of remaining silent.

NOT ME. I'm tired of all the double-standard, double-speak, hypocrisy.
Even when I have tried to use proper grammar over the years. There's always somebody out there who feels SUPERIOR to everyone else...and calls us out for improper grammar...unless WE AX THEM!:laugh:

[Drummond]

Yeah, "you dumb" screams illiteracy. Here on DP, I think it's more of a typo or a missed key strike of someone typing quickly.

You misspelled 'realized'. :slap:

... aha. Not according to BRITISH English, I didn't !!! The British often substitute an 's' for an American 'z' (pronounced 'zed' over here, not 'zee' .. I think the Canadians do the same thing ?).

Two examples off the top of my head --

CAUTERISE

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/cauterise

HOMOGENISE

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/homogenise

'You dumb' screams illiteracy at me, too .. we definitely agree on that one. But - it still begs the question as to whether there can be a legitimate reason for accepting it (see Perianne's comment on that).

LEGITIMISE ... there's another one !

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/legitimise

Now, should I make sure my spelling always conforms to US expectations ? I'll be struggling, if 'yes' ...

[.. Reminds me of another American forum, far less well run than this one, where posters could impersonate others !! Impostors trying to copy me would always trip up on spellings - they just couldn't help themselves]

[Drummond]

Drummond, that IS completely illiterate, and not acceptable in America, either. The fact that one is criticized for pointing out a glaring grammar mistake, is just another spoke in the wheel of America's fall from excellence. It is another instance of "who are you to judge my mediocrity?!"

Which is all the rave these days, doncha know? ;)

Thanks, Abbey !

As for your last sentence - it could've been typed by an east Londoner !! Irritating, all the same .....

[Drummond]

... just noticed.

CRITICISE .. another one !

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/criticise

[NightTrain]

I know, Drummond... was my smartass idea of a weak joke.

NT make funny. Funny good!

[Drummond]

When I no longer hear Americans refer to questions with an AX, instead of ASK. Nobody, but Nobody should be offended when they feel a need to criticize anyone's Grammar.

There are many examples ALL OF US have heard, but to avoid being labeled as Racists, or for Profiling.....we choose the Politically Correct, Liberal path of remaining silent.

NOT ME. I'm tired of all the double-standard, double-speak, hypocrisy.
Even when I have tried to use proper grammar over the years. There's always somebody out there who feels SUPERIOR to everyone else...and calls us out for improper grammar...unless WE AX THEM!:laugh::clap::clap::clap:

... mind you, Aboutime, you've highlighted, for me, yet another difference between British and American spellings. Here, 'AX' would be an error. We use, 'AXE' ..

There must be a great many such differences. Another coming to mind is the American 'check'. We use 'cheque'.

[An American friend once found himself subject to attention from a con-artist, pretending to be British, offering him a fake investment opportunity in England. His American usage of 'check' to ask for payment was inexplicable from a Brit, so he was revealed for what he was, and saved from being defrauded ...]

[Drummond]

I know, Drummond... was my smartass idea of a weak joke.

NT make funny. Funny good!

The American usage of 'dumbass' ... accurately describing me, right this minute ... is that slang, totally accepted ?

And why 'ass' .. ? Brits have 'arses' ... as in (incorrectly spelled, anyway !) ... 'Arrse', the name for a spoof site run by our army as a military send-up of Wikipedia ...

Here's a favo(u)rite page ... :rolleyes:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Koran

[LongTermGuy]

When I no longer hear Americans refer to questions with an AX, instead of ASK. Nobody, but Nobody should be offended when they feel a need to criticize anyone's Grammar.

There are many examples ALL OF US have heard, but to avoid being labeled as Racists, or for Profiling.....we choose the Politically Correct, Liberal path of remaining silent.

NOT ME. I'm tired of all the double-standard, double-speak, hypocrisy.
Even when I have tried to use proper grammar over the years. There's always somebody out there who feels SUPERIOR to everyone else...and calls us out for improper grammar...unless WE AX THEM!:laugh:


:coffee:

http://www.itusozluk.com/image/ain-t-nobody-got-time-for-that_460133.jpg

[hjmick]

Grammar. Is it important to me...


My dad taught college English at Texas A&I (now A&M) in Kingsville and at the University of Houston. Not a single paper I turned in for school escaped his perusal.

It is important to me that I use proper grammar, that I spell words correctly, and the my sentence structure is such that it could pass an English exam. I don't always succeed.

Is it important to me that others follow suit? No, that would be asking too much.

I will however say this, and I've said this before...

When people are using the written word as a representation of themselves, such as we do here, I think it would behoove them to use, at the minimum, spell check. What we type and how we type it lends itself to the impression we have of one another. Too many mistakes in grammar, too many misspelled words, and I for one might be inclined to think one is a fucking idiot.

And if you are incapable of correctly typing "You're an idiot" in favor of "Your a idiot," you're the idiot. Never make a mistake like that when attempting to belittle an opponents intelligence.


Just saying...

[jimnyc]

I got me da l33t writin skillz! :)

I can deal with most grammatical errors, as that's where I suck. I'm against poor spelling, as I think I'm ok in that department! :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1QpyGa61zs

[jimnyc]

Too many mistakes in grammar, too many misspelled words, and I for one might be inclined to think one is a fucking idiot.

We really need to have another beer sometime. We have to be related in some fashion.

[hjmick]

We really need to have another beer sometime. We have to be related in some fashion.

Anytime Jim, anytime. And should I ever find myself in your neck of the woods (my wife has never been to NY), rest assured your phone will ring... Unless you change the number.

[LongTermGuy]

http://d2ws0xxnnorfdo.cloudfront.net/meme/64151




http://short-jokes-quotes.com/joke/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/eat-grandma-punctuation.jpg

[jimnyc]

Poor grandma. That's gross and disgusting though! :lol:

[hjmick]

http://short-jokes-quotes.com/joke/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/eat-grandma-punctuation.jpg


I've been using this one for years...

[NightTrain]

The American usage of 'dumbass' ... accurately describing me, right this minute ... is that slang, totally accepted ?

And why 'ass' .. ? Brits have 'arses' ... as in (incorrectly spelled, anyway !) ... 'Arrse', the name for a spoof site run by our army as a military send-up of Wikipedia ...

Here's a favo(u)rite page ... :rolleyes:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Koran

Yeah, "smartass" and "dumbass" are used pretty frequently verbally (at least in my circles) and I suppose the correct spelling would be "smart ass", but it seems correct with how I pronounce it as one word. The built-in spellcheck on the board doesn't like it, but I've used correct words that are automatically underlined in red here on DP that were correct, so the spellcheck database isn't 100%.

And I know it's not proper to begin a sentence with 'and'.

I know it's not proper to use '...' in the place of a comma or a period like I do frequently, but I allow myself that luxury because it's just my style. HJ does the same, and so did Post Modern Prophet.

It's pretty rare to hear anyone say 'arse' instead of 'ass'. That's totally a British thing as far as I can tell.

[indago]

Very important.

I'm not as bad as I used to be about being a Grammar Nazi, and I refrain from correcting people for the most part, but it drives me up the wall when I see someone screw up They're, Their and There.

But nothing grinds my teeth more than seeing "So I saw a bunch of car's today."

Yeah, I saw a bunch too...

[LongTermGuy]

Poor grandma. That's gross and disgusting though! :lol:



*Yes... o perverted one...dirty minds do "think alike":laugh2:

[Elessar]

While it is considered rude to correct another person's grammatical mistakes, how often do you notice grammar? Is it important to you?

Poor Grammar makes my teeth grind. I was an English (and Phys Ed.) Major, and while I abbreviate
writings, much like common person-to-person talk, I specialized in written and oral communication.

I especially hate 'Text Speak". "U" is not a word...."R" is not a word. more and more...
It makes a person look ignorant and stupid. It is lazy and shows a lack of education.

But not knowing you from your, from you're, and from you are....

....then their, there, they are.---> those all tell me someone slept through grammar classes.

It shows stupidity.

Europeans speak our dialect far better than many born here.

[tailfins]

I don't practice good grammar as rigidly as I should, but it's mostly because I don't want to take the time to look up the proper wordage.

I could care less, irregardless of how important you think grammar is.

[Elessar]

When I no longer hear Americans refer to questions with an AX, instead of ASK. Nobody, but Nobody should be offended when they feel a need to criticize anyone's Grammar.

There are many examples ALL OF US have heard, but to avoid being labeled as Racists, or for Profiling.....we choose the Politically Correct, Liberal path of remaining silent.

NOT ME. I'm tired of all the double-standard, double-speak, hypocrisy.
Even when I have tried to use proper grammar over the years. There's always somebody out there who feels SUPERIOR to everyone else...and calls us out for improper grammar...unless WE AX THEM!:laugh:

Ohh...if someone gets in a heated debate with me and goes off the side with horrible grammar and punctuation....I'll fire right back - just to piss them off
more.....keeps me on the upper hand from an illiterate idiot! :coffee:

Spelling is interesting...I suffer from Typonese and *do* misspell at times, but that is not as bad as the OP topic.

[KitchenKitten99]

It is important to me only when reading things that are supposed to be taken seriously. Such as Facebook rants about political and social issues.

If they're trying to be serious and I have to stop at every few words to try to decipher what they are trying to say because punctuation is absent, and the incorrect "they're/their/there" (or likewise) is used, I stop reading about halfway through and move to the next one.

These people are my friends so I just leave it alone but I think to myself: You're not helping our side look good with your paragraph of words with no periods, commas, and incorrect use of their/they're/there, etc. It is hard to take the argument or statement seriously when I have to trip over words and lack of grammar.

If it is someone I don't know and their rant is opposite of what I believe, then I correct it just to piss them off. Ironically those I see who misspell and misuse apostrophes and commas in their rant against all the "rich people" etc, for various social problems including education gaps, I only think to myself that it doesn't take money to put an effort into learning and being educated in the very basics. No amount of money will insert that stuff in your brain for you. It's all on you.

[tailfins]

It is important to me only when reading things that are supposed to be taken seriously. Such as Facebook rants about political and social issues.

If they're trying to be serious and I have to stop at every few words to try to decipher what they are trying to say because punctuation is absent, and the incorrect "they're/their/there" (or likewise) is used, I stop reading about halfway through and move to the next one.

These people are my friends so I just leave it alone but I think to myself: You're not helping our side look good with your paragraph of words with no periods, commas, and incorrect use of their/they're/there, etc. It is hard to take the argument or statement seriously when I have to trip over words and lack of grammar.

If it is someone I don't know and their rant is opposite of what I believe, then I correct it just to piss them off. Ironically those I see who misspell and misuse apostrophes and commas in their rant against all the "rich people" etc, for various social problems including education gaps, I only think to myself that it doesn't take money to put an effort into learning and being educated in the very basics. No amount of money will insert that stuff in your brain for you. It's all on you.

I perceive people with poor grammar as careless. I doubt everything in that given communication. I get that some people can be tired or having problems in life. However, if someone uses poor grammar all the time, it's time to doubt their competence.

[jimnyc]

I love it though when you see someone scream that the other person is an "idot" and has no "inteligence" and similar funny things. I ALWAYS call that out when I see it. :)

[NightTrain]

I love it though when you see someone scream that the other person is an "idot" and has no "inteligence" and similar funny things. I ALWAYS call that out when I see it. :)


I love the delicious irony sometimes... "you're grammer is bad. kthxbye."

[jimnyc]

I love the delicious irony sometimes... "you're grammer is bad. kthxbye."

I know I'm not always grammatically correct, so I shut my mouth. I don't think it's correct to start sentences with "but"? Am I wrong? But I do it all the time. :)

[NightTrain]

I know I'm not always grammatically correct, so I shut my mouth. I don't think it's correct to start sentences with "but"? Am I wrong? But I do it all the time. :)


I do, too. I was told by my elementary English teacher that you should never start a sentence with a 'but' or an 'and'... but I see it done by many authors today, so I think the rules change as more people adopt the Non-Proper usage. Spelling works that way, too.

Remember back in the '80s when they added "Ain't" to the dictionary? Pretty sure I was in the 4th grade when that went down and that was a big topic of discussion out on the playground.

[Perianne]

I do, too. I was told by my elementary English teacher that you should never start a sentence with a 'but' or an 'and'... but I see it done by many authors today, so I think the rules change as more people adopt the Non-Proper usage. Spelling works that way, too.

Remember back in the '80s when they added "Ain't" to the dictionary? Pretty sure I was in the 4th grade when that went down and that was a big topic of discussion out on the playground.

"Ain't" ain't a proper word? How would I talk if it ain't a proper word??? What are you supposed to call your uncle's wife??? Duh.

[tailfins]

"Ain't" ain't a proper word? How would I talk if it ain't a proper word??? What are you supposed to call your uncle's wife??? Duh.

Some people call her "Mom".

:lol:

[Elessar]

I know I'm not always grammatically correct, so I shut my mouth. I don't think it's correct to start sentences with "but"? Am I wrong? But I do it all the time. :)

Starting a conversation with "So" is awkward as well, as is closing with "Just saying.."

[Abbey Marie]

I know that starting a sentence with "And" is incorrect (the nuns made sure of that!), but I do it anyway. Sometimes the paragraph just flows better that way.

My FIL would always correct me when I called someone "Ant" Mary. I just cannot pronounce it "Awnt". As a native Bronxy, it sounds too stilted to me.

[Kathianne]

I know I'm not always grammatically correct, so I shut my mouth. I don't think it's correct to start sentences with "but"? Am I wrong? But I do it all the time. :)

But, and, so, also, etc., sentences shouldn't begin with any.

I scrub them from anything formal, but use them informally-though not in speech. Go figure.

My most obvious grammar mess up is with commas. Don't know why, but have always used too many. Whenever I contributed to something being published, I turned my papers over to my grammar Nazi friend-she took care of the commas. ;)

[Perianne]

But, and, so, also, etc., sentences shouldn't begin with any.

I scrub them from anything formal, but use them informally-though not in speech. Go figure.

My most obvious grammar mess up is with commas. Don't know why, but have always used too many. Whenever I contributed to something being published, I turned my papers over to my grammar Nazi friend-she took care of the commas. ;)

Kathianne, you are likely much better than me on grammar. I also tend to use commas.

I use commas with "too" and "though", like this: I like eating potatoes, too. I like them more when they are baked, though.

Are the commas correct in those sentences?

[Balu]

Kathianne, you are likely much better than me on grammar. I also tend to use commas.

I use commas with "too" and "though", like this: I like eating potatoes, too. I like them more when they are baked, though.

Are the commas correct in those sentences?

I am not an expert in this questions, but I feel that they are not necessary in these sentences. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/blush2.gif

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

And the message is supposed to be zeroed out by the crude way its presented?
Or that it meets not some high standards?
When did such standards become more important the the actual communication itself = the message.
If I can understand the message I ignore all of that. With Jeff I have too. ;) :poke:
Not that I don't break rules religiously myself.
Emerson held firmly, message over manner, so do I...
AND , I begin sentences with that word as did E.E. Cummings in his poems, with this fact-- he was a highly educated and literate man, poet and writer.

Myself,I have always held this stand-- to hell with any that do not like how I write.
If I do not bother to point out their errors in writing or numerous other transgressions they should respond in kind. -Tyr

[Kathianne]

Kathianne, you are likely much better than me on grammar. I also tend to use commas.

I use commas with "too" and "though", like this: I like eating potatoes, too. I like them more when they are baked, though.

Are the commas correct in those sentences?

When grading papers I always grabbed a Strunk & White (http://www.amazon.com/The-Elements-Style-Fourth-Edition/dp/020530902X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk). ;) (Which is packed up now. If I get a teaching gig, I'll have to buy another.) Too often I fell back on what I was taught, to read the sentence aloud, if you pause, add a comma.

Semicolons are used to connect two complete related thoughts.

I think in the above sentences you give, either using a comma or not will work.

Your examples sound like dialogue to me, so I'd use the comma in the first and not the second.

[Balu]

In my student years we had a fun to construct the longest possible, grammatically correct words. I managed to compose the following chain: sense - senseless - senselessness - unsenselessness - unsenselessnessly - disunsenselessnessly - disunsenselessnesliability. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/mega_shok.gif