Three Cheers For Ebay and Etsy

[tailfins]

I will write them, thanking them for their helpful policies. I hope the American Family Association as well as the Southern Baptist Convention will also send their thanks.


Etsy bans the sale of spells, and some are unhappy

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/06/18/etsy-bans-sale-spells-and-some-are-unhappy/

[Voted4Reagan]

This has been a "test" of the tailwind religious intolerance system..

Please disregard the content as it is just an attempt to push a far right wing religious agenda.

I have a friend that will be at witchfest in nyc this weekend. We'll make sure his name is mentioned in circle. Spells for the well being of him and his family will be cast.. The lord and lady will be invoked to help him learn tolerance.

[revelarts]

This has been a "test" of the tailwind religious intolerance system..

Please disregard the content as it is just an attempt to push a far right wing religious agenda.

I have a friend that will be at witchfest in nyc this weekend. We'll make sure his name is mentioned in circle. Spells for the well being of him and his family will be cast.. The lord and lady will be invoked to help him learn tolerance.


VR4. I can't speak for Tailfins.
But i've always said people can do what they like religion wise but I don't have to like it.
And Jesus, the apostles and prophets tell me there only ONE Lord, and Him ONLY shall you worship.



Exodus 20:1-6
And God spoke all these words, saying,I am the Lord your God, which has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make unto yourselves any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.



1 timothy2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,


For this is what the Lord says—
he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other."


Mark 12:28
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”
“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

[tailfins]

Matthew 4:10<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Matthew 4:10 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Matthew-4-10/).</small>


Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

[Voted4Reagan]

VR4. I can't speak for Tailfins.
But i've always said people can do what they like religion wise but I don't have to like it.
And Jesus, the apostles and prophets tell me there only ONE Lord, and Him ONLY shall you worship.









Mark 12:28
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”
“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

And Christianity arose out of the Pagan religions and adopted many holidays/festival days.

The two are one in the same... Remember your Yule tree REV... Pagan Symbol.

and dont forget those Ostara Eggs...Same thing.

[revelarts]

And Christianity arose out of the Pagan religions and adopted many holidays/festival days.
The two are one in the same... Remember your Yule tree REV... Pagan Symbol.
and dont forget those Ostara Eggs...Same thing.

well, Ok, but the Yule tree isn't a "Christian" symbol in the sense that the Jesus or the apostles ever referenced it. Same with the Ostara Eggs. Not once did the Jesus or the apostles mention ANY pagan festivals or symbols as a part of Christian practice. Those came after as some Christians didn't want to let go of certain pagan fevetivals symbols and rituals that they were familiar with. Some ...misguided.. church leaders long after the apostles and early church fathers allowed this and tried to "christianize" many of the pagan ways. But it's not what the Apostles, Moses, the prophets or Jesus taught. quite the opposite. They all clearly teach that christians are those who turn to God from idols. Who turn from all other gods. It's a theme repeated again and again in scripture.

one instance

...Acts 19: 13-20
Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done. A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas. In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power....

So we see Christian believers who ALSO practiced "sorcery" realizing that they needed to rid themselves of the practices and the spell books for good.
There is no honest co-mingling pagan rituals, god and goddess with Jesus. Not as far as what the Bible teaches. you're free to do what you like. but please don't claim that Jesus taught it.

Their were many religions in the roman empire and Rome didn't mind people worshipping any or many gods. the problem Rome had with Christians was that they were EXCLUSIVELY devoted to God and Jesus and said other religions and the Caesars were false gods and not gods at all. This is what sent them to the lions. not xmas trees and easter eggs, rome enjoyed theses as well.

[Voted4Reagan]

well, Ok, but the Yule tree isn't a "Christian" symbol in the sense that the Jesus or the apostles ever referenced it. Same with the Ostara Eggs. Not once did the Jesus or the apostles mention ANY pagan festivals or symbols as a part of Christian practice. Those came after as some Christians didn't want to let go of certain pagan fevetivals symbols and rituals that they were familiar with. Some ...misguided.. church leaders long after the apostles and early church fathers allowed this and tried to "christianize" many of the pagan ways. But it's not what the Apostles, Moses, the prophets or Jesus taught. quite the opposite. They all clearly teach that christians are those who turn to God from idols. Who turn from all other gods. It's a theme repeated again and again in scripture.

one instance


So we see Christian believers who ALSO practiced "sorcery" realizing that they needed to rid themselves of the practices and the spell books for good.
There is no honest co-mingling pagan rituals, god and goddess with Jesus. Not as far as what the Bible teaches. you're free to do what you like. but please don't claim that Jesus taught it.

Their were many religions in the roman empire and Rome didn't mind people worshipping any or many gods. the problem Rome had with Christians was that they were EXCLUSIVELY devoted to God and Jesus and said other religions and the Caesars were false gods and not gods at all. This is what sent them to the lions. not xmas trees and easter eggs, rome enjoyed theses as well.

Yet the Catholic church promoted Pagan festivals and traditions in an effort to gain followers.

Hypocrisy? Most definitely....

Now remember...I am Catholic... So how about this?

We all let others practice the religion of their choice and we don't outwardly criticize them for it.

When you come out against Pagans REV you make yourself no better than Tailfins and his Radical agenda. Be concerned with your own faith and not the faith of others.

I don't see Pagans attacking Christians.... Give them the same courtesy.

[NightTrain]

I don't see Pagans attacking Christians.... Give them the same courtesy.

Yes, you do.

Every December there are hundreds of stories from all over the country reporting about how atheists and pagans and other non-Christian religious groups try to stop anything that mentions Christ or the word 'Christmas' in any venue they might get any traction - usually a court - or they try and bully a few cowardly council people or a school principal into bowing to their demands.

I'm all for religious freedom and it doesn't bother me one bit to see 'Happy Hanukkah' or 'Happy Hungry Ramadan' or 'Blessed Be' or 'Happy Diwali'.

But you have to admit, if you're being honest, that Christianity and our Christian traditions are under assault from all quarters lately - it seems that tolerance is a one-way street, and that smacks of fascism.

[revelarts]

Yet the Catholic church promoted Pagan festivals and traditions in an effort to gain followers.
Hypocrisy? Most definitely....
Now remember...I am Catholic... So how about this?
We all let others practice the religion of their choice and we don't outwardly criticize them for it.
When you come out against Pagans REV you make yourself no better than Tailfins and his Radical agenda. Be concerned with your own faith and not the faith of others.
I don't see Pagans attacking Christians.... Give them the same courtesy.


V4R, please don't take my comments as personal "attacks". They are not meant that way.
If i can make a poor analogy.

if we were talking about cars and you said that Ford began as a Japanese company.
If i say "no it's started as an American company by a guy named Henry Ford."
That's not an attack just a factual correction.

And if you like to take Hondas and put the Ford label on the trunk .. FINE. And Paste a Ford logo in the back window ...OK.
But please don't try to tell me that it REALLY IS a Ford. Or that the Ford Corporation endorses and services the vehicle.
That's just not true. And In my thinking at least it's not an attack, that just conversational fact checking.

As I said earlier believe as you will, I tolerate most religions. most have some very fine aspects.
But I don't endorse all religions because i believe i'm commanded not to.
Jesus said go out and love others and make disciples for Christ. exclusively. not to make disciples for the earth goddess and others.
They killed Jesus because of his words claiming absolute authority, and his criticism of incomplete religion. Was he outwardly attacking Rome and the Jewish leadership?

Christianity is a accepting of all people but not of all ideas.

[tailfins]

V4R, please don't take my comments as personal "attacks". They are not meant that way.
If i can make a poor analogy.

if we were talking about cars and you said that Ford began as a Japanese company.
If i say "no it's started as an American company by a guy named Henry Ford."
That's not an attack just a factual correction.

And if you like to take Hondas and put the Ford label on the trunk .. FINE. And Paste a Ford logo in the back window ...OK.
But please don't try to tell me that it REALLY IS a Ford. Or that the Ford Corporation endorses and services the vehicle.
That's just not true. And In my thinking at least it's not an attack, that just conversational fact checking.

As I said earlier believe as you will, I tolerate most religions. most have some very fine aspects.
But I don't endorse all religions because i believe i'm commanded not to.
Jesus said go out and love others and make disciples for Christ. exclusively. not to make disciples for the earth goddess and others.
They killed Jesus because of his words claiming absolute authority, and his criticism of incomplete religion. Was he outwardly attacking Rome and the Jewish leadership?

Christianity is a accepting of all people but not of all ideas.

Perhaps it's a good idea for real Christian churches to study abandoning the "Christmas" tree and the Easter Egg.

[Abbey Marie]

Who gives a fig what something "started" as? It's what it means to you that counts. Not to mention decades of Christian custom associated with it. I can tell you categorically that our Christmas Tree is just that- a tree to help us celebrate Christmas. There is nothing Pagan about it- I don't care about any old-timey customs.

Have a tree; don't have a tree, it's up to you. But don't make a decision based on something like that.

[Voted4Reagan]

Who gives a fig what something "started" as? It's what it means to you that counts. Not to mention decades of Christian custom associated with it. I can tell you categorically that our Christmas Tree is just that- a tree to help us celebrate Christmas. There is nothing Pagan about it- I don't care about any old-timey customs.

Have a tree; don't have a tree, it's up to you. But don't make a decision based on something like that.


This is a "TEST" of the TAILFINS Board Trolling System.

It is meant to provoke controversy and to insult those who may practice a Pagan/Wiccan Religion.

If this had been a Post that had any actual content it would have come from someone else.

This ends the "TEST" .

Do Not feed the Troll...

[Jeff]

Yet the Catholic church promoted Pagan festivals and traditions in an effort to gain followers.

Hypocrisy? Most definitely....

Now remember...I am Catholic... So how about this?

We all let others practice the religion of their choice and we don't outwardly criticize them for it.

When you come out against Pagans REV you make yourself no better than Tailfins and his Radical agenda. Be concerned with your own faith and not the faith of others.

I don't see Pagans attacking Christians.... Give them the same courtesy.


As many know Rev and I have been on opposite ends of a few threads, but I didn't see where he came out swinging here. Personally I thought Rev did a good job answering your thread without making it personal. I give Rev that credit, he may not agree but he tries to keep it to facts rather then personal attacks.

[revelarts]

Perhaps it's a good idea for real Christian churches to study abandoning the "Christmas" tree and the Easter Egg.

I think a lot of folks have looked at it and have decided it's not a major issue. But some have dropped kicked the trees from the church to.
As a young christian myself when i found out the history I dropped the tree and eggs immediately. when i got married my wife an i agreed no trees or easter eggs. My wife "changed her mind" however a few years. but of most years we've only had a nativity scene at home.

1 of my co-workers found out that we didn't have tree, and weren't going lie to our then 3 or 4 year old about santa claus and weren't going to have a tree ever. She basically wagged finger and claimed that we we're going to SCAR her for life because she wasn't living like the other children. I replied "yeah scarred like all those Jewish children that don't have christmas trees and santa claus", she should be so scarred.
But i know of a couple of churches in my area that don't use trees or eggs. and a few christians who've abandoned them personally.

But I think Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 basically apply
where it says it's OK to eat "meat offered to idols" because an idol is nothing and it's just meat but if it offends your brother then you might want to hold back because his conscious is weak.

So maybe I'm the weak christian who wants to stay away from even the tree that was offered to Idols, or maybe it's the strong ones who just want to be pure of anything except what Jesus gave us.
either way on this issue if people can go before God with a decorated tree to honor Jesus we'll I'm not going to stop them or harass them. I don't agree, and will say why, but it's between them and God. But IMO there are far greater sins the church is allowing that are much more damaging. no need for me to get too exercised over the tree or the eggs that much.

but 1 more thing, when i abandoned the tree and Santa i was surprised at how many people were upset, PISSED OFF, with me for giving up the tree and christmas all together for a while there. They wanted to "force christmas down my throat". They weren't concerned so much about Jesus, but the traditions of the tree, santa claus, and the gifts. NO ONE said you're DISHONORING God by not putting up a tree or giving and taking gifts. It just pissed them off personally.
I do "celebrate" christmas with gifts now but still no tree. I think God has and can use christmas and easter as tools

Let everyone be fully persuaded in their own minds on this issue it seems to me.

[revelarts]

Who gives a fig what something "started" as? It's what it means to you that counts. Not to mention decades of Christian custom associated with it. I can tell you categorically that our Christmas Tree is just that- a tree to help us celebrate Christmas. There is nothing Pagan about it- I don't care about any old-timey customs.
Have a tree; don't have a tree, it's up to you. But don't make a decision based on something like that.

the history and origin of traditions, and traditions of faith are very important.
And we celebrate origins all the time. the 4th of July is an origins celebration.

to me if Christmas is about Jesus Christ then what does the tree have to do with it?
I can make up story to "today" to mask over the history and keep the fun of the tradition if i want too. but if my goal is to mainly celebrate Jesus's birth then why should i tack on this questionable tree bit? why not take into account the WHOLE of history rather than limit my thinking recent history, to what i want and my feelings.

point is on some issues people can make the decisions on issues of faith based on whatever they want.
The full history or recent history or just personal feelings. In most areas of faith the history and reality of a thing is VERY important. But the tree and eggs are at best sideshow issues. They are NOT vital parts of the faith. They can be dropped WITHOUT harm to Jesus Christ.... and it may help to have less distractions. But people can use what ever criteria they want to base their decision on here it seems to me.

[Abbey Marie]

the history and origin of traditions, and traditions of faith are very important.
And we celebrate origins all the time. the 4th of July is an origins celebration.

to me if Christmas is about Jesus Christ then what does the tree have to do with it?
I can make up story to "today" to mask over the history and keep the fun of the tradition if i want too. but if my goal is to mainly celebrate Jesus's birth then why should i tack on this questionable tree bit? why not take into account the WHOLE of history rather than limit my thinking recent history, to what i want and my feelings.

point is on some issues people can make the decisions on issues of faith based on whatever they want.
The full history or recent history or just personal feelings. In most areas of faith the history and reality of a thing is VERY important. But the tree and eggs are at best sideshow issues. They are NOT vital parts of the faith. They can be dropped WITHOUT harm to Jesus Christ.... and it may help to have less distractions. But people can use what ever criteria they want to base their decision on here it seems to me.

Rev, if you want to reach back to some old custom that no one would ever remember if it wasn't brought up (usually) by non-Christians, to attack Christmas, feel free. I prefer to live in current times, and attribute the overwhelmingly positive customs to it. Further, I know that my faith is strong enough to withstand the presence of... wait for it... a tree! Surely yours is as well?

Look up the history of almost any natural object (rocks, wood, water), and you can surely find some ancient odd association with it. Shall we do away with them all, because our faith fears the past? What would be left?

(Btw, we have 1 tree, but about 8 Nativities around the house. So, if objects have the power you ascribe to them, I think Satan is being kept at bay quite well at 8-1 :cool: ).

[Voted4Reagan]

Because ancient Egyptian Pagans worshiped the Sun.... I fully expect all those intolerant of Pagans to try and extinguish it because the ATEN may be summoned and become angry.

Happy Solstice to all...

It is the Day of the ATEN...

[tailfins]

Rev, if you want to reach back to some old custom that no one would ever remember if it wasn't brought up (usually) by non-Christians, to attack Christmas, feel free. I prefer to live in current times, and attribute the overwhelmingly positive customs to it. Further, I know that my faith is strong enough to withstand the presence of... wait for it... a tree! Surely yours is as well?

Look up the history of almost any natural object (rocks, wood, water), and you can surely find some ancient odd association with it. Shall we do away with them all, because our faith fears the past? What would be left?

(Btw, we have 1 tree, but about 8 Nativities around the house. So, if objects have the power you ascribe to them, I think Satan is being kept at bay quite well at 8-1 :cool: ).

Perhaps a careful study of what actually does and doesn't summon demons is in order. At the end of the day what matters is not provoking God's anger. God can curse an individual, family or even a nation with the result being widespread misery.

[WiccanLiberal]

Everyone feel free to include trees, eggs and anything else you feel inclined to in your various celebrations. They are symbols. They take on the meaning you choose to give them. I set up a Yule tree every year. My friends call theirs a Christmas tree. The point is we are both observing a celebration of life and rebirth in the depth of the winter. An affirmation of the fact that life triumphs. Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way. The fact that certain retailers choose to express a spirit of religious intolerance is a loss only for those who rely on others to do their spiritual work.

[revelarts]

Everyone feel free to include trees, eggs and anything else you feel inclined to in your various celebrations. They are symbols. They take on the meaning you choose to give them. I set up a Yule tree every year. My friends call theirs a Christmas tree. The point is we are both observing a celebration of life and rebirth in the depth of the winter. An affirmation of the fact that life triumphs. Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way. The fact that certain retailers choose to express a spirit of religious intolerance is a loss only for those who rely on others to do their spiritual work.


that's a very nice sentiment. I can't say i agree with it very much though. but it's a free country.

I do have one question. about what you said.
" Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way."

that's sounds very nice, but as they say "the devils in the details" "more or less".

I'm sorry i'm so blunt here but I'm a guy and like crystal clear talk if possible. I'm not trying to be offensive. you're free to do what you like.
Some roman catholics like to pray to/through Mary and dead Saints
Muslims pray to Allah
Hindus prayer to "a million" gods.
I know some Africans that pray to "Shango" basically an african Thor or Zues.
My prayers are to God via Jesus Christ exclusively. and the apostles and prophets instruct me that to pray any other way is to pray to nothing or fallen angels. I don't believe we all ultimately are praying to the same god or forces just by different names. I believe there are in fact many different spirits people are praying to. Spirits that aren't all on the same page much less the same ultimately.

But you say your "spells" are "prayers" more or less, Prayers to who exactly?

[tailfins]

that's a very nice sentiment. I can't say i agree with it very much though. but it's a free country.

I do have one question. about what you said.
" Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way."

that's sounds very nice, but as they say "the devils in the details" "more or less".

I'm sorry i'm so blunt here but I'm a guy and like crystal clear talk if possible. I'm not trying to be offensive. you're free to do what you like.
Some roman catholics like to pray to/through Mary and dead Saints
Muslims pray to Allah
Hindus prayer to "a million" gods.
I know some Africans that pray to "Shango" basically an african Thor or Zues.
My prayers are to God via Jesus Christ exclusively. and the apostles and prophets instruct me that to pray any other way is to pray to nothing or fallen angels. I don't believe we all ultimately are praying to the same god or forces just by different names. I believe there are in fact many different spirits people are praying to. Spirits that aren't all on the same page much less the same ultimately.

But you say your "spells" are "prayers" more or less, Prayers to who exactly?

That's the dividing line right there! If someone prays to nothing, I can tolerate that. It's the fallen angels that are terrifying. They are the ones that devour like a roaring lion.

[darin]

Bingo. Modern Christianity is ruined, as an establishment. Today's Church gives way too many shits about the wrong thing, yet carries on traditions (regardless of their origins) as if they are gospel.


And Christianity arose out of the Pagan religions and adopted many holidays/festival days.

The two are one in the same... Remember your Yule tree REV... Pagan Symbol.

and dont forget those Ostara Eggs...Same thing.