South Carolina Shooting: 9 Dead

[Kathianne]

Hate Crime? Some getting what they hoped for?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129109/Multiple-people-injured-South-Carolina-church-shooting.html


Police have released CCTV images of a white gunman who shot dead nine people in a cold-blooded race-hate crime at an African-American church in South Carolina on Wednesday night.

The 21-year-old suspect opened fire at a weekly bible study group at the 150-year-old Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, shooting dead three male victims and six females - but spared one woman so she could 'tell the world what happened', eye witnesses recounted.


A five-year-old girl also survived the attack after her grandmother told her to play dead when the shooter started firing.
The gunman had entered the church an hour before the shooting and joined the study group before suddenly opening fire, Police Chief Gregory Mullen said at an early-morning press conference on Thursday.


Among the victims was 41-year-old Reverend Clementa Pinckney, pastor of the church and a South Carolina state senator, it has emerged. His sister was also reportedly been shot but the names of the other victims have not yet been released.




...

I notice the man attacked an 'easy pickings' church, not a bunch of gang-bangers...

[Gunny]

Hate Crime? Some getting what they hoped for?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129109/Multiple-people-injured-South-Carolina-church-shooting.html



I notice the man attacked an 'easy pickings' church, not a bunch of gang-bangers...

Newsflash: Would you white folk QUIT shooting up the knee-grows? A 9 body count is NOT worth 9 days of wall to wall media coverage the rest of us folk that weren't raised in a trailer and have more than 3 teeth have to deal with.

Hell, join a message board and take it out on them.:laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hate Crime? Some getting what they hoped for?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129109/Multiple-people-injured-South-Carolina-church-shooting.html



I notice the man attacked an 'easy pickings' church, not a bunch of gang-bangers...
The murdering bastard attacked unarmed people. And could easily be a white muslim attempting to start a war between whites and blacks as he left one person alive to describe him-as white! Why leave an adult alive unharmed? One that could describe you the killer.
Seems this sick murderer wanted the fact he was white to be known...
Lets not forget that there are thousands white muslims in this nation. -Tyr

[Kathianne]

Newsflash: Would you white folk QUIT shooting up the knee-grows? A 9 body count is NOT worth 9 days of wall to wall media coverage the rest of us folk that weren't raised in a trailer and have more than 3 teeth have to deal with.

Hell, join a message board and take it out on them.:laugh:

?

[jimnyc]

I saw a video that they brought someone in for questioning, whether him or not I am unsure. But to hit a bible study of unarmed people? Shoot this worthless piece of crap between the eyes once they confirm, or find.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/embed/83392" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kathianne]

If they've got him, I want to find out his motivation. Thanks to many factors, it seems that hate is winning out.

[jimnyc]

"Dylann Roof"

<section class="yom-mod yom-breaking-news level1" id="mediacontentbreakingnews" data-ylk="mid:mediacontentbreakingnews;mpos:1;t1:a3;t2:mod-bkn;sec:mod-bkn;"> Breaking News:
FBI reportedly identifies Charleston, S.C. shooter as Dylann Roof (http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-church-shooting-massacre-manhunt-live-103930165.html)
</section>

[jimnyc]

Honestly never heard of this person, but...



The names of the victims have not been released, but S.C. State Sen. Clementa Pinckney is said to be among dead.

[Gunny]

?

Just jarhead-speak ma'am. We'll make fun of anything. It's a way to deal with stress without falling apart.

I think this is stupid. Probably some chump who can't accept his own failures and blames blacks. Murdering innocent people who went to church to pray? I wouldn't hesitate to put him out of our misery.

The point remains: these idiots that blame blacks don't realize or don't care about the consequences the rest of us have to deal with. I;m just waiting for Al Sharpton to chime in.

[fj1200]

The murdering bastard attacked unarmed people. And could easily be a white muslim attempting to start a war between whites and blacks as he left one person alive to describe him-as white! Why leave an adult alive unharmed? One that could describe you the killer.
Seems this sick murderer wanted the fact he was white to be known...
Lets not forget that there are thousands white muslims in this nation. -Tyr

:facepalm99:

[NightTrain]

Attacking a church group? Shoot that animal.


No, Tyr... I think this scumbag will turn out to be KKK or White Supremacist.

[Gunny]

:facepalm99:

I didn't catch that right off the bat. Then I had to go have a smoke I was laughing so hard. I'm still waiting for Rod Serling to make an appearance in the shadows. :laugh:

[sundaydriver]

:facepalm99:

That post should rate about 2 pages of those emos.

[Max R.]

Hate Crime? Some getting what they hoped for?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129109/Multiple-people-injured-South-Carolina-church-shooting.html



I notice the man attacked an 'easy pickings' church, not a bunch of gang-bangers...
My prayers to the families of the lost ones.

Dylann Roof surrendered meekly to police officers in North Carolina. I'm guessing he figured shooting at deputies would get himself hurt compared to shooting women holding Bibles.

[Max R.]

Attacking a church group? Shoot that animal.


No, Tyr... I think this scumbag will turn out to be KKK or White Supremacist.
Or simply nuts.

[Max R.]

Just jarhead-speak ma'am. We'll make fun of anything. It's a way to deal with stress without falling apart.

I think this is stupid. Probably some chump who can't accept his own failures and blames blacks. Murdering innocent people who went to church to pray? I wouldn't hesitate to put him out of our misery.

The point remains: these idiots that blame blacks don't realize or don't care about the consequences the rest of us have to deal with. I;m just waiting for Al Sharpton to chime in.

Agreed. Hate comes from within, not from without. People who hate pick a focus for their hate, be it blacks, whites, Republicans or Democrats. Those groups don't cause the hate since that emotion comes from the individual.

[CSM]

Just saw where they caught the guy....

[Max R.]

Just saw where they caught the guy....
He cooperate with the police like a docile sheep.

Figures he is a wimp. I half expected him to eat his own gun by now or go out with suicide-by-cop. Now we'll have a long, draw out trial with him either getting life-without-parole or a gurney ride.

In Texas, we have an express lane for multiple murderers with witnesses.

[aboutime]

There will be much more of this HATRED Unloosed in the coming days because Americans, or at least the SICK ONES who always will hate....have been URGED ON, and nearly Given the unspoken power to HATE, KILL, DESTROY...merely by Following the actions (or non-actions) of OBAMA'S White House, and his intentional DIVISIVENESS to rile up the poor.

Just think about it. The Leader of the NAACP is a liar, pretending to be Black, and TV/Hollywood, makes her a CELEBRITY who will eventually get her own REALITY SHOW...to ENTERTAIN IDIOTS across this nation.
IS THERE ANYONE READING THIS WHO ISN'T ANGRY AT HER ACTIONS?

Not to condone that idiot who did the church shootings...but something had to TIP him, or anger him enough to NOT CARE....Just like Obama...what the outcome of his actions were in shooting those people in a Church???

Are we all allowing ourselves to become what OBAMA REALLY WANTS FROM US?

When we lower ourselves to OBAMA'S/DEMOCRAT/SHARPTON levels...we become just like them.

[Max R.]

There will be much more of this HATRED Unloosed in the coming days because Americans, or at least the SICK ONES who always will hate....have been URGED ON, and nearly Given the unspoken power to HATE, KILL, DESTROY...merely by Following the actions (or non-actions) of OBAMA'S White House, and his intentional DIVISIVENESS to rile up the poor.

Just think about it. The Leader of the NAACP is a liar, pretending to be Black, and TV/Hollywood, makes her a CELEBRITY who will eventually get her own REALITY SHOW...to ENTERTAIN IDIOTS across this nation.
IS THERE ANYONE READING THIS WHO ISN'T ANGRY AT HER ACTIONS?

Not to condone that idiot who did the church shootings...but something had to TIP him, or anger him enough to NOT CARE....Just like Obama...what the outcome of his actions were in shooting those people in a Church???

Are we all allowing ourselves to become what OBAMA REALLY WANTS FROM US?

When we lower ourselves to OBAMA'S/DEMOCRAT/SHARPTON levels...we become just like them.

Blaming President Obama or anyone else for the actions of Dylann Roof is a complete failure in personal accountability. Roof is responsible for his own actions.

Hate has been around for all of written history, it didn't just pop into existence in 2008 and it won't go away in 2016.

[aboutime]

Blaming President Obama or anyone else for the actions of Dylann Roof is a complete failure in personal accountability. Roof is responsible for his own actions.

Hate has been around for all of written history, it didn't just pop into existence in 2008 and it won't go away in 2016.


Sure thing.

[Jeff]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.

[Max R.]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.
Agreed. He was no more than a minute or two into his remarks when he stood on the bodies of nine dead Americans to push an anti-gun political agenda.

[Jeff]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.

I have not seen his comments on the SC shooting yet but I see he did make this comment about school shooting, I actually head this from another, but yes he has said this over school shootings, the man is a idiot.

As for the shooter, we should still string him up.

[aboutime]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.


Jeff. It's all nothing but Obama's Blame America for everything plan. But when any of us say his name in VAIN...as in saying Obama is to BLAME...all of the defensive idiots who love him still...want to stop all negative talk about the Man who is almost SINGLE-HANDEDLY...destroying the very country those who love him so much...do not care about...unless they are Black, Ignorant, and Democrat.
And right now. I don't give a good crap what anyone thinks of what I just said.
The truth cannot, and will not be changed. Not even the Haters are intelligent enough to do that.

[Gunny]

He cooperate with the police like a docile sheep.

Figures he is a wimp. I half expected him to eat his own gun by now or go out with suicide-by-cop. Now we'll have a long, draw out trial with him either getting life-without-parole or a gurney ride.

In Texas, we have an express lane for multiple murderers with witnesses.

He didn't have any women or children to prey upon. Too bad he didn't give those cops an excuse ....

[Max R.]

I have not seen his comments on the SC shooting yet but I see he did make this comment about school shooting, I actually head this from another, but yes he has said this over school shootings, the man is a idiot.

As for the shooter, we should still string him up.

The President's remarks: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/18/full-text-obamas-remarks-on-fatal-shooting-in-charleston-s-c/

Politicians often politicize events (See Republicans and Benghazi), but most have the common courtesy to wait for the bodies to go cold or, even better, until they are buried.

[Gunny]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.

I blame Obama for this: He has repeatedly involved himself in state issues. That is NOT the President of the United States' business. He can't handle what he's supposed to be handling. Constantly involving himself in states' business while proving he is incapable of handling foreign policy is just more proof he was never qualified for the office to begin with.

[Drummond]

What you can blame on Obama ( or so I have heard :laugh: ) Is his remarks in a speech today about this shooting, saying that America is the only country where you see these Mass murders :confused0058: Does he not get TV or a new paper at the WH and read what is going on all over the world, yup lets use another tragedy to push his anti gun BS.

OOO and as for the shooter,Yes hang this murderer from the highest tree.

... and it's this that is playing out in the UK media. Yet again.

- Same old stuff. Every single time a shooting at all like this happens, so our media churn out their usual disdain for the relatively easy gun ownership in the US. It's used to forever push the message that a society that allows gun ownership as a normal part of its culture is one that's misguided at absolute best.

Obama is, and will, OF COURSE push his anti-gun BS. It's what the Left, on your side of the Pond and mine, will always do. Anything to disempower the individual and promote a dependency culture.

For Lefties who advance the fiction that denying gun ownership is better for individual security, I need only cite the UK's widespread 2011 rioting. People injured, widespread looting, widespread damage to property in several cities, this lasting for the better part of a week .. and WHY ?

BECAUSE CITIZENS COULDN'T USE GUNS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY.

I'll no doubt be treated to pro-Obama 'statesmanlike' positioning on this issue over the coming days, as the British media will want to see it as being ...

[Gunny]

... and it's this that is playing out in the UK media. Yet again.

- Same old stuff. Every single time a shooting at all like this happens, so our media churn out their usual disdain for the relatively easy gun ownership in the US. It's used to forever push the message that a society that allows gun ownership as a normal part of its culture is one that's misguided at absolute best.

Obama is, and will, OF COURSE push his anti-gun BS. It's what the Left, on your side of the Pond and mine, will always do. Anything to disempower the individual and promote a dependency culture.

For Lefties who advance the fiction that denying gun ownership is better for individual security, I need only cite the UK's widespread 2011 rioting. People injured, widespread looting, widespread damage to property in several cities, this lasting for the better part of a week .. and WHY ?

BECAUSE CITIZENS COULDN'T USE GUNS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY.

I'll no doubt be treated to pro-Obama 'statesmanlike' positioning on this issue over the coming days, as the British media will want to see it as being ...

Too bad Obama isn't as hostile to our enemies as he is us. We could get something done.

[Max R.]

I blame Obama for this: He has repeatedly involved himself in state issues. That is NOT the President of the United States' business. He can't handle what he's supposed to be handling. Constantly involving himself in states' business while proving he is incapable of handling foreign policy is just more proof he was never qualified for the office to begin with.

Agreed. This isn't the first time he's not only jumped into a state law enforcement issue, but politicized the deaths of Americans who happen to be black.

At least 31 Americans died in Texas and Oklahoma floods, yet not a peep from the President. Sure, he signed disaster aid, but no Rose Garden speeches about the dead. Why not?

http://www.weather.com/safety/floods/news/flash-flooding-heavy-rain-texas-oklahoma-catastrophic-impacts

[Gunny]

Agreed. This isn't the first time he's not only jumped into a state law enforcement issue, but politicized the deaths of Americans who happen to be black.

At least 31 Americans died in Texas and Oklahoma floods, yet not a peep from the President. Sure, he signed disaster aid, but no Rose Garden speeches about the dead. Why not?

http://www.weather.com/safety/floods/news/flash-flooding-heavy-rain-texas-oklahoma-catastrophic-impacts

Well, we already know what he thinks about us God-fearing, gun-totin' redencks ....

[Jeff]

Well, we already know what he thinks about us God-fearing, gun-totin' redencks ....


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7363&stc=1

Yes and he does do it quite often, Obama has used these same exact words about it only happening in America on at least two other shooting, does this idiot not see what the Muslims are doing, man instead of baseball their sport of choice is Beheadings. But hey what ever gets his points across I guess. :rolleyes:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7363&stc=1

Yes and he does do it quite often, Obama has used these same exact words about it only happening in America on at least two other shooting, does this idiot not see what the Muslims are doing, man instead of baseball their sport of choice is Beheadings. But hey what ever gets his points across I guess. :rolleyes:
He did not denounce the muslims murdering Christians all across the M.E. Yet he cried out about these nine blacks, well when its tens of thousands Christians murdered in the M.E. by the muslims not a peep from the stinking bastard. -Tyr

[gabosaurus]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.

[Gunny]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.

Stupid statement. There's nothing right wing about this. He's a loser. That makes him left wing IMO. Somebody must have not given him a handout. Oh wait ... he's wait. No handouts for whites.

See how that works?

[hjmick]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.


Please provide us with a link establishing this loon as a "right-winger..."

There is a point, my dear Gabby, where the and crazy nullify all political affiliations. I'd say this guy surpassed that level and then some. Who spends an hour sitting in Bible study and then gets up and murders nine people? Someone filled with crazy hate...



The shooter deserves the death penalty.


No, he deserves life in prison where he shares a cell with a large, angry Black man who will fuck him in the ass for the rest of his pathetic life.



His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.


What do we know about his family? Do you have a link? I live here and all I've heard is that his father bought him the gun for his 21st birthday and Lindsay Graham's niece says he was creepy all the way back in grade school. I've met racists and bigots whose parents are perfectly normal and don't understand where their offspring came by their beliefs. You could very well be right, his parents might be racist scumbags, but until I hear from a source more reliable that your conclusion of certainty...



I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.


Name them, please, so that I may disregard their posts in favor ridiculing their ignorance.



I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.


I have never visited one of these forums, why do you?



Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.


You have a sad view of the world. A "glass half empty" kind of gal, ain't ya?




The shooting last night is a tragedy. A horrific tragedy. I spent a portion of my day talking to and consoling a friend and co-worker whose aunt was killed in the AME Church last night. My heart ached for him. I can't imagine losing a loved one to such violence, such hatred...

In the short time that I have lived here, I have realized something. The people of Charleston and its environs, the people of the Low Country in general, tend to come together when it counts. I saw some of that in the news coverage last night, and the nation saw it in April with the shooting of Walter Scott. In three years I have yet to witness any act of racism or hate, until last night (and just for the record, Roof was not from here, he's from upstate, just outside of Columbia). Does it exist here? Yes. But the racists are few and far between from what I can tell, contrary to what some would have you believe.


I'm rambling... Suffice it to say that the people of the Low Country will stand side by side and get through this tragedy. From what I can tell, it's what they do...

[Drummond]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.

Ah, there's some 'nice' demonising going on in the above comment, eh ? Did you have fun with it ?

White supremacy forums .. far right boards. Cited in order to paint, and establish, a greater picture of demonisation ...

Gabby, care to put some percentages from the total population on each of those ? Would they be large percentages ? Miniscule percentages ?

-- And what percentage of the population of the US, by stark contrast, is actually classifiable as CONSERVATIVE ?

Gabby -- you, in common with the Left wing more generally, have your anti-gun agenda to advance. Here, you are trying it by defending that position on the back of a very small minority. We all know it.

Well, another very small minority is a way of describing that percentage of the population who suffer from mental illness. Because they exist, is this a legitimate basis for judging the fitness of THE FAR GREATER MAJORITY to carry arms ??

Gun carrying is not the issue. Guns don't kill. PEOPLE do. And only a very small minority indeed would ever do so, as a purely aggressive act.

Take away their guns .. do you take away the desire to be aggressive, even to kill ? Without guns, such people will find alternative ways to kill. With knives, for example.

And I've one final thought for you. You said ...


The shooter deserves the death penalty.

I quite enjoyed that comment. You see, you've said elsewhere that you'll be visiting England this summer. Well ... England doesn't HAVE the death penalty, and hasn't done for several decades. We don't even allow extraditions to the US, regardless of the crime involved, if there's ANY possibility of its leading to a sentence of death !!

When you visit my country, try getting involved in conversations where you say you are in favour of any usage of a death penalty. Guess what ... IF YOU DO, there's a high probability that those Brits you talk to will label YOU in the 'American Conservative' school of thinking. :laugh:And I can't imagine you could persuade them otherwise, Gabby ... you'll be welcome to try ....

Your visit to England should be instructive for you. You'll be giving Brits reason to think of YOU as Conservative, if you don't hold back in your views. And don't forget .. you can visit parts of London that've been continually been ruled by Socialism for generations. If Socialism led to 'social paradises', you can witness THE REALITY for yourself. See if the reality comes within a light year of Leftie hype !!

[Jeff]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.

Wow :laugh:

Kind of stepped into it again huh Gabs, I won't go on about how do you know this guy was a right winger as others have already or were did you get info about his family, hell I live a couple of hours from there and have heard nothing of them, but I will ask you this, when blacks are rioting and going crazy because a black thug that had just committed strong armed robbery and then attacked a police officer is killed , well what sites did you go to then Gabs, as I remember I didn't see a comment from you , other than the usually BS, "look here, a duh look at the guy that called it in Duh", like that matters.

But I have to ask, why do you hate your own race so much ? Those poor folks in Charleston where attacked by a animal no matter his color, and I like you ( if you read the posts above ) agreed he needs to be put down, but I think hjmick punishment for him is a lot worse.

But do you really have a opioin or do you just want to rile folks up ? Because you really stepped in it here, one might ask why in the heck are you reading white supremacy boards, hell I am on the right and have never been to one of those boards. Just curious is all.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The murderer had no justification for his actions and doesn't matter if he is left-wing, right-wing or just crazy.
He murdered nine innocent people and their race matters not either.
He needs a speedy and fair trial, if found guilty as charged , put the lousy scum to death.-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/dylann-roof-south-carolina-charleston-shooting-suspect


Pinckney’s cousin Sylvia Johnson told NBC News a survivor of the mass killing had told her Roof said he “had to” keep shooting, as another churchgoer attempted to talk him out of firing his weapon while he reloaded.

“He just said, ‘I have to do it,’” she said. “‘You rape our women, and you’re taking over our country, and you have to go,’” she said.

His parents are described as "extremely conservative." They gave him a gun for his 21st birthday as well as a car with a Confederate flag license plate.

[aboutime]

Wow :laugh:

Kind of stepped into it again huh Gabs, I won't go on about how do you know this guy was a right winger as others have already or were did you get info about his family, hell I live a couple of hours from there and have heard nothing of them, but I will ask you this, when blacks are rioting and going crazy because a black thug that had just committed strong armed robbery and then attacked a police officer is killed , well what sites did you go to then Gabs, as I remember I didn't see a comment from you , other than the usually BS, "look here, a duh look at the guy that called it in Duh", like that matters.

But I have to ask, why do you hate your own race so much ? Those poor folks in Charleston where attacked by a animal no matter his color, and I like you ( if you read the posts above ) agreed he needs to be put down, but I think hjmick punishment for him is a lot worse.

But do you really have a opioin or do you just want to rile folks up ? Because you really stepped in it here, one might ask why in the heck are you reading white supremacy boards, hell I am on the right and have never been to one of those boards. Just curious is all.



Jeff. Plain and simple. Gabs has that same sickness called hatred, and using her liberal techniques, like Hillary always does, in blaming the VAST RIGHTWING EVERYTHING...just proves Gabs is incapable of hiding her real, hate-filled, illiterate, liberal self from anyone.

[LongTermGuy]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/dylann-roof-south-carolina-charleston-shooting-suspect



His parents are described as "extremely conservative." They gave him a gun for his 21st birthday as well as a car with a Confederate flag license plate.


He is no "Conservative" `politically speaking`....look at that face and those eyes...*this fuckor is a sick evil little bastard...there is no help for this guy...Pure evil...

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-300/h--/q-95/817d6bf8c04f141f8f5c8f21145898f74beb7719/0_0_1440_864/500.jpg

[revelarts]

Prayers go out for the families. 19 people at church. Lord.
How wrong is that?

Everyones a victim here. that stupid kid as well. There's hell to pay for this... unless he somehow begs God's forgiveness.
But the state doesn't have that option here.

[Voted4Reagan]

Gas Chamber.... Yeah.... Stick him in the Gas Chamber.

Let him choke and feel it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Santa_Fe_gas_chamber.jpg

[revelarts]

Agreed. This isn't the first time he's not only jumped into a state law enforcement issue, but politicized the deaths of Americans who happen to be black.
At least 31 Americans died in Texas and Oklahoma floods, yet not a peep from the President. Sure, he signed disaster aid, but no Rose Garden speeches about the dead. Why not?
http://www.weather.com/safety/floods/news/flash-flooding-heavy-rain-texas-oklahoma-catastrophic-impacts
well technically he did, folk just weren't paying as much attention... for some reason.
“Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and the communities that have been affected by some of these devastating, record-breaking floods,...” President Barack Obama said Tuesday. Obama pledged federal assistance to the region.

On Thursday we went on say that we need to be prepped for bad weather like the floods. why? oh.
BECAUSE "CLIMATE CHANGE".:rolleyes:

"let no tragedy go to waste." as you said all politicians do it.

[aboutime]

Gas Chamber.... Yeah.... Stick him in the Gas Chamber.

Let him choke and feel it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Santa_Fe_gas_chamber.jpg


We must all remember the liberal tolerance theory here in relation to that murdering idiot.

Be prepared to hear from all of the Bleeding Heart Liberals who are against the Death Penalty, because the POOR SHOOTER was probably a victim of a bad family upbringing, and he should be permitted to heal in a state facility...because that's the Liberal way...just like Abortion?????

[hjmick]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/dylann-roof-south-carolina-charleston-shooting-suspect



His parents are described as "extremely conservative." They gave him a gun for his 21st birthday as well as a car with a Confederate flag license plate.


Do you read the articles you post? Or do you just make stuff up? No where in that article does it mention the political leanings of his parents. No where does it say they gave him the car. The only thing mentioned in the article and the sentence you posted is the fact that his father gave him a gun for his birthday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're not conservative, I'm not saying they didn't give him the car. I don't know because I have not seen it reported anywhere but in your posts. Not your links, not the local papers, not the local news, just your posts...

[revelarts]

It's a terrible thing. it's hard to comprehend.
We may never know the whole story.

but it seems to me some options for the kids motive are:
•racist idiot
•crazy
•antidepressant meds side effects: "contact your healthcare provider right away if you have any of the following symptoms.... acting aggressive or violent"
•self styled satanist, or occult practitioner
•white muslim lone wolf out to kill christians and or foment racial and religious unrest and give example to others. (Tyr's got a point)
•globalist gov't pasty "Manchurian candidate" to foment racial unrest, or gun control, or unknown other
•general idiot, weird kid looking for recognition.
•Andrew Brevick or other mass/serial killer copy cat.
•just a kid that embraced his own worse drives. evil.

or any combo of the above.

Whatever the case he should pay for his crimes.
however I'm not in favor of "hate crime" prosecutions.

if a man kills his wife on purpose THAT can be a hate crime as much as some ignorant white racist, or some idiot who hates gays or the stupid Latino that hates gringos.
Murder is Murder. there should be no need to punish it more. death penalty or life for premeditated murder.
the cause of the premeditation is important ONLY in that it proves... premeditation.
Hate and/or Greed and/or Sadistic pleasure, whatever moral vice, if it's outcome is murder then that's the crime IMO.

[Drummond]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/dylann-roof-south-carolina-charleston-shooting-suspect



His parents are described as "extremely conservative." They gave him a gun for his 21st birthday as well as a car with a Confederate flag license plate.

NBC .. I understand is Leftie media.

So's the UK's Guardian newspaper.

You rely on Leftie media for your sources ?

[Jeff]

No matter the guys political stance he is a nut job period, Gabs trying to turn this into a political game is the same thing Obama is doing with the, AMERICAN IS THE ONLY PLACE MASS MURDERS TAKE PLACE, trash. It's a political game played by folks that know they are losing or have no ground to stand on, personally I laugh at folks like them. But yes there will be some idiots saying how america is the only place mass murders happen, yes they also will believe Gabby, they are called Liberals.

[Balu]

It's a terrible thing. it's hard to comprehend.


It is a pity that such things are happening. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

[Drummond]

It's a terrible thing. it's hard to comprehend.
We may never know the whole story.

but it seems to me some options for the kids motive are:
•racist idiot
•crazy
•antidepressant meds side effects: "contact your healthcare provider right away if you have any of the following symptoms.... acting aggressive or violent"
•self styled satanist, or occult practitioner
•white muslim lone wolf out to kill christians and or foment racial and religious unrest and give example to others. (Tyr's got a point)
•globalist gov't pasty "Manchurian candidate" to foment racial unrest, or gun control, or unknown other
•general idiot, weird kid looking for recognition.
•Andrew Brevick or other mass/serial killer copy cat.
•just a kid that embraced his own worse drives. evil.

or any combo of the above.

Whatever the case he should pay for his crimes.
however I'm not in favor of "hate crime" prosecutions.

if a man kills his wife on purpose THAT can be a hate crime as much as some ignorant white racist, or some idiot who hates gays or the stupid Latino that hates gringos.
Murder is Murder. there should be no need to punish it more. death penalty or life for premeditated murder.
the cause of the premeditation is important ONLY in that it proves... premeditation.
Hate and/or Greed and/or Sadistic pleasure, whatever moral vice, if it's outcome is murder then that's the crime IMO.

... Just a somewhat minor observation, though it surprised me the first time I heard it ...

... which was just several hours ago.

I knew that 'hate crime' had become accepted jargon over here. But, from a BBC report I heard earlier, and now here .. I see it's also now in use in the US ??

Is this a long-standing term in America, and I was unaware of it, or, has it just crept in ? Because, you see, it has association - does it not ? - with Orwell's novel '1984'.

Is the Left introducing its 'NewSpeak' into American usage, or have you already had this for some time .. as we have, in the UK ? And as Orwell envisaged, does it help with dictatorship of preferred thinking ?

[Drummond]

No matter the guys political stance he is a nut job period, Gabs trying to turn this into a political game is the same thing Obama is doing with the, AMERICAN IS THE ONLY PLACE MASS MURDERS TAKE PLACE, trash. It's a political game played by folks that know they are losing or have no ground to stand on, personally I laugh at folks like them. But yes there will be some idiots saying how america is the only place mass murders happen, yes they also will believe Gabby, they are called Liberals.

Perhaps Obama would like to tell me that this story was just fiction ?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/europe/dunblane-lessons/


Shortly after 9 a.m. on March 13, 1996, Thomas Hamilton, a 43-year-old former Scout leader, burst into the gymnasium of a primary school in the tranquil Scottish town of Dunblane.

Within minutes 15 children aged five and six had died in a hail of bullets. One died later in hospital. Their teacher, Gwen Mayor, a 44-year-old mother of two, died in the attack, reportedly while trying to shield her pupils. Two other teachers were also seriously injured while heroically trying to protect children. Hamilton turned one of his four handguns on himself and was found dead at the scene.

We already had some of the toughest gun laws on the planet, back then. But it fueled a Leftie drive to tighten up further. Every time a further incident of this type occurs (AND THEY DO), so new calls are made for yet further restrictions.

This is another example of Obama trying to clone a situation he's seen from elsewhere in the world. Our Lefties have been making their ritualistic calls for ever tighter controls for a VERY long time. So Obama is copying what he's learned from abroad. From other Leftie-dominated societies.

This is a process that never ends. Not here .. and it won't in your part of the world, not if your own Leftie-In-Chief has his way. Be thankful you have your Constitution to fall back on.

[hjmick]

The "Hate Crime" charge has been in use in the U.S. for a long time. The first hate crime laws were passed in 1871 with the Civil Rights Act of 1871. They were intended to fight the growing number of racially motivated crimes being committed by the Reconstruction era Ku Klux Klan. The modern hate crime legislation began in 1968 with the passage of federal statute, 18 U.S. 245, part of the Civil Rights Act. The first state hate crime law was passed in California in 1978 and provided penalty enhancement in cases where murder was motivated by prejudice against four "protected status" categories: race, religion, color, and national origin. Washington included ancestry in a statute passed in 1981. Alaska included creed and sex in 1982 and later disability, sexual orientation, and ethnicity. In the 1990s some state laws began to include age, marital status, membership in the armed forces, and membership in civil rights organizations.

[Drummond]

It is a pity that such things are happening. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

Agreed, Balu.

It's also quite a pity that somewhat comparable disregard for life exists in your part of the world, albeit on a somewhat larger scale...

Perhaps Putin can issue his own calls for gun controls ... that's to say, restricting them, not supplying them, for the furtherance of longer-term political gain ?

Just a thought in passing, Balu. Hope you found it helpful.

[Kathianne]

The "Hate Crime" charge has been in use in the U.S. for a long time. The first hate crime laws were passed in 1871 with the Civil Rights Act of 1871. They were intended to fight the growing number of racially motivated crimes being committed by the Reconstruction era Ku Klux Klan. The modern hate crime legislation began in 1968 with the passage of federal statute, 18 U.S. 245, part of the Civil Rights Act. The first state hate crime law was passed in California in 1978 and provided penalty enhancement in cases where murder was motivated by prejudice against four "protected status" categories: race, religion, color, and national origin. Washington included ancestry in a statute passed in 1981. Alaska included creed and sex in 1982 and later disability, sexual orientation, and ethnicity. In the 1990s some state laws began to include age, marital status, membership in the armed forces, and membership in civil rights organizations.

I really don't agree with 'hate' status. All crimes are of hate. Penalties should just match the crime. Especially violent crimes already have 'aggravated' status.

[Drummond]

The "Hate Crime" charge has been in use in the U.S. for a long time. The first hate crime laws were passed in 1871 with the Civil Rights Act of 1871. They were intended to fight the growing number of racially motivated crimes being committed by the Reconstruction era Ku Klux Klan. The modern hate crime legislation began in 1968 with the passage of federal statute, 18 U.S. 245, part of the Civil Rights Act. The first state hate crime law was passed in California in 1978 and provided penalty enhancement in cases where murder was motivated by prejudice against four "protected status" categories: race, religion, color, and national origin. Washington included ancestry in a statute passed in 1981. Alaska included creed and sex in 1982 and later disability, sexual orientation, and ethnicity. In the 1990s some state laws began to include age, marital status, membership in the armed forces, and membership in civil rights organizations.

OK, thanks for that. I appreciate the information.

I just hope that your Left aren't now trying to build on its usage, for effect.

[hjmick]

I really don't agree with 'hate' status. All crimes are of hate. Penalties should just match the crime. Especially violent crimes already have 'aggravated' status.


I understand the need for them after the Civil War, and even during the Civil Rights movement, but I have over the years come to believe that all crimes like this one are, on some level, rooted in hate on some level. At first blush I agree with you, but when I think about it, I'm not sure I'm right. I hesitate only because I'm certain there are people out there who are smarter than I who know the reasoning behind keeping the laws on the books.

[revelarts]

I understand the need for them after the Civil War, and even during the Civil Rights movement, but I have over the years come to believe that all crimes like this one are, on some level, rooted in hate on some level. At first blush I agree with you, but when I think about it, I'm not sure I'm right. I hesitate only because I'm certain there are people out there who are smarter than I who know the reasoning behind keeping the laws on the books.

there are tons of people out there smarter than i am. but i'd still say i think they are wrong on the "hate crimes" thing.
As Kath mentioned aggravated is already a category. "HATE" is such a vague term and it presumes to punish certain thoughts.
Making the thoughts themselves a crime. Instead of the physical events, or assault, murder, or property damage, or even threats of violence and intimidation.

"I'm going to kill you N----r!", is really not worse than "I'm going to kill you B---h!" Or "I'm going to kill you you Old S--t!"
And if it's done as part of a group then conspiracy is all over the law already as well to cover that it seems to me.

I suspect the back during civil rights and reconstruction (sometimes even now) just getting ANY conviction against whites and justice for blacks was difficult and having an EXTRA law to use make a case was seen as probably a necessary tool.
But IMO it's pretty much run it's course and like bad patriot act provisions should be set aside.

we already see in Canada and some euro countries how "Hate crimes" have gone beyond the idea of real physical harm and property loss to words being "offensive" and "HATE SPEECH" to persons and groups. And as such those WORDS are now prosecutable offenses.
I agree with Drummond here, Hate Crime laws are Orwellian.

[Balu]

there are tons of people out there smarter than i am. but i'd still say i think they are wrong on the "hate crimes" thing.
I think this is a matter of mental instability of the young generation who used to live in their virtual world.

[hjmick]

Local news is now reporting that he bought the gun with money received for his birthday rather than receiving the gun as a gift as was initially being reported...

This tidbit of information only goes to reinforce my opinion that, no matter how many laws are passed in an effort to cover every contingency, some how, some way, crazy people will slip through the cracks and do crazy shit (there are reports that Root was medicated)...

Not long after I moved here, there was an incident involving a gal and a gun and a school. She was off her meds or her meds weren't right and she took a gun to a school with the intention of shooting a teacher. The gun misfiredd, she was arrested, and the state legislature passed a law to prevent the mentally ill from getting guns.

Doesn't seem to have worked out in the case of Dylan Root...

[Jeff]

Local news is now reporting that he bought the gun with money received for his birthday rather than receiving the gun as a gift as was initially being reported...

This tidbit of information only goes to reinforce my opinion that, no matter how many laws are passed in an effort to cover every contingency, some how, some way, crazy people will slip through the cracks and do crazy shit (there are reports that Root was medicated)...

Not long after I moved here, there was an incident involving a gal and a gun and a school. She was off her meds or her meds weren't right and she took a gun to a school with the intention of shooting a teacher. The gun misfiredd, she was arrested, and the state legislature passed a law to prevent the mentally ill from getting guns.

Doesn't seem to have worked out in the case of Dylan Root...

I seen that this morning as well about him being heavily medicated, and no there is no way of stopping folks like this getting their hands on a gun, I think the laws we have work well but there is always going to be away for things to slip through the cracks.

[tailfins]

I think this is a matter of mental instability of the young generation who used to live in their virtual world.


A person living in a virtual world wouldn't go out much in public, much less do such a thing as this.

[Gunny]

Ah, there's some 'nice' demonising going on in the above comment, eh ? Did you have fun with it ?

White supremacy forums .. far right boards. Cited in order to paint, and establish, a greater picture of demonisation ...

Gabby, care to put some percentages from the total population on each of those ? Would they be large percentages ? Miniscule percentages ?

-- And what percentage of the population of the US, by stark contrast, is actually classifiable as CONSERVATIVE ?

Gabby -- you, in common with the Left wing more generally, have your anti-gun agenda to advance. Here, you are trying it by defending that position on the back of a very small minority. We all know it.

Well, another very small minority is a way of describing that percentage of the population who suffer from mental illness. Because they exist, is this a legitimate basis for judging the fitness of THE FAR GREATER MAJORITY to carry arms ??

Gun carrying is not the issue. Guns don't kill. PEOPLE do. And only a very small minority indeed would ever do so, as a purely aggressive act.

Take away their guns .. do you take away the desire to be aggressive, even to kill ? Without guns, such people will find alternative ways to kill. With knives, for example.

And I've one final thought for you. You said ...



I quite enjoyed that comment. You see, you've said elsewhere that you'll be visiting England this summer. Well ... England doesn't HAVE the death penalty, and hasn't done for several decades. We don't even allow extraditions to the US, regardless of the crime involved, if there's ANY possibility of its leading to a sentence of death !!

When you visit my country, try getting involved in conversations where you say you are in favour of any usage of a death penalty. Guess what ... IF YOU DO, there's a high probability that those Brits you talk to will label YOU in the 'American Conservative' school of thinking. :laugh:And I can't imagine you could persuade them otherwise, Gabby ... you'll be welcome to try ....

Your visit to England should be instructive for you. You'll be giving Brits reason to think of YOU as Conservative, if you don't hold back in your views. And don't forget .. you can visit parts of London that've been continually been ruled by Socialism for generations. If Socialism led to 'social paradises', you can witness THE REALITY for yourself. See if the reality comes within a light year of Leftie hype !!

If you're gay or black you're just proud. If you're white, you're "superior". *yawn*

[Gunny]

The murderer had no justification for his actions and doesn't matter if he is left-wing, right-wing or just crazy.
He murdered nine innocent people and their race matters not either.
He needs a speedy and fair trial, if found guilty as charged , put the lousy scum to death.-Tyr

I'm going with "loser". His suntan doesn't matter. The only good outcome from this is he'll never be allowed to vote Dem.

[jimnyc]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/dylann-roof-south-carolina-charleston-shooting-suspect



His parents are described as "extremely conservative." They gave him a gun for his 21st birthday as well as a car with a Confederate flag license plate.

Care to share with us? LINK? And don't say you can't find it now, I'll give you ten different ways to look through your history to find what you read. This is TWO times now you stated conservative, so it's no mistake. Odd that there's no link though, as you would rub that in folks faces, I think. So which is it, you going to post a link, or are you trolling again?

[jimnyc]

Care to share with us? LINK? And don't say you can't find it now, I'll give you ten different ways to look through your history to find what you read. This is TWO times now you stated conservative, so it's no mistake. Odd that there's no link though, as you would rub that in folks faces, I think. So which is it, you going to post a link, or are you trolling again?

And I sent Gabby a link via PM, so she can share this reputable article with us.

[jimnyc]

And fwiw, I'm reading now that his parents were "pressuring him to get a job". Sounds more like a liberal to me, expecting handouts from others.

[Gunny]

And fwiw, I'm reading now that his parents were "pressuring him to get a job". Sounds more like a liberal to me, expecting handouts from others.

Awww ... poor little guy. Not a "J-O-B". Sounds like killing spree time to me. I'm just surprised he didn't go into a daycare.

[revelarts]

The murderer had no justification for his actions and doesn't matter if he is left-wing, right-wing or just crazy.
He murdered nine innocent people and their race matters not either.
He needs a speedy and fair trial, if found guilty as charged , put the lousy scum to death.-Tyr

I've to take this op to say.

imo THIS is the kind of comment that should come whenever crimes are committed. any crimes.
It's been said here a couple of times i think "his race doesn't matter" and even if he's found to be part of some hardcore racist group like the KKK, it doesn't really matter. It's a crime by an bad individual.
No one here wants to blame or smear a whole race because ONE or a few killers and idiots do horrific things. Will this attitude transfer so that the next time a black idiot kills a white person? I hope that somehow it will not turned into PAGES of comments that harangue "black culture" or say Sharpton's getting what he wanted or it's Obama fault feeding into "a race war", what Obama "REALY" wants and the like claiming it's "the truth" etc etc..

the replies here have NOT tried to jump to the conclusions about "white culture" being violent, and conservatives getting what they really want. Just because the guy MAY IN FACT be conservative and pro south. No one here thinks it's reasonable that he should be thought of as representative of "white culture" "conservatives" "the south" "red necks" or "real" desires of Ted Neugent or says Fox News final got what they REALLY wanted more dead blacks.
That would not be reasonable or fair would it?

"The murderer had no justification for his actions and doesn't matter if he is left-wing, right-wing or just crazy."
"He murdered nine innocent people and their race matters not either."
He needs a speedy and fair trial, if found guilty as charged"

THIS is how we start overcoming a lot of racial divisiveness.
Dealing with every crime should START HERE imo.

The poor motives and influences of the individual need to brought out and dealt with but not with blanket charges of blame thrown out wily nily on those who may have things in common with the perps. But also It seems to me everyone could tone down the rhetoric and respect each other as human beings more then maybe some of the idiots won't jump to the wrong conclusions. But ultimately each criminals mind and actions are their own.

I'm not sure i'm saying this the best way to get the point across, but whatever, I hope what i mean is clear here.

[Drummond]

I've taken a look at a handful of British news media outlets reporting on this.

The Leftie Guardian, on the question of how he got his gun, leave that question open. From ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/19/shooting-suspect-dylann-roof-confesses-reports

... I see ...


New questions were also emerging about how Roof acquired the firearm that he allegedly used in the attack at the historic African American Emanuel AME church.

Relatives have indicated that he was given a Glock handgun by his father in April as a birthday present, but CNN law enforcement officials familiar with the details said that he had told officers that he bought a gun recently from a gun shop

The Daily Mail (a leading Conservative paper) goes into very great detail (way too much to reproduce here)... though they leave the issue of how he obtained the gun alone, from what I've seen ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130396/Dylann-Storm-Roof-21-glares-hauled-away-cuffs.html

The BBC chooses to devote time and effort on another aspect .. one I think they're following to advance an agenda of their own. See ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33198061


The suspected gunman Dylann Roof has been pictured wearing white supremacist iconography and reportedly told his black victims: "I have to do it... You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go."

Here we look at who the white supremacists are in the United States and what defines them.

Like any sub-culture, they are far from a homogenous grouping but what defines them is hatred - usually directed at race and the government.

Weapons are a key part of their ideology: far-right websites dedicate entire sections to recommending what guns and other weapons to buy.

Nazi ideology is one symbol seen in nearly all far-right groups, with tattoos of swastikas common.

That Caucasian/Aryan people are from a superior gene pool, and that all other minorities are inferior. There is a particularly embittered hatred towards black people linking back to slavery, but also an increasing hatred towards Hispanics as that group has grown due to migration. Unsurprisingly, given the long-standing affinity with Nazi ideology, Jews are also hated. A commonly held belief is that the US government is controlled by Jews, denoted by the acronym ZOG, which stands for Zionist Occupied Government.

Online extremist networks have erupted with news of the shooting. One thread on the major white-supremacist forum Stormfront had over 140,000 views. Users expressed a variety of opinions, but the majority used racist language and were insulting towards the dead. Pejorative and offensive racial terms were used, with some describing the gunman as a hero. Others criticised the deaths of churchgoers and argued that the bad publicity would damage their cause. However, there was little regret for the actual loss of life.

There are also claims that the attack is a Jewish conspiracy designed to discredit white supremacist causes.

Reliable data is hard to come by, as you would expect from a mostly underground culture. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) tracks extremist groups across the US - the majority of which are white supremacist - and estimates there were 784 active groups in 2014. In South Carolina, there were 19 groups, including the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the League of the South.

ALL of this is sparked off by a kid whose killing spree was - I'm sure - a product of his OWN mind. Evil, to be sure ... but I think the BBC is doing its damndest to Leftily hype up a so-called 'aspect' in order to indulge heavy bias against the way they want America to be perceived.

And note the way they link all this in to their message on the American gun culture, with:


Weapons are a key part of their ideology: far-right websites dedicate entire sections to recommending what guns and other weapons to buy.

Speaks for itself, I think ... an effort to not only strongly advocate the need for much stricter gun ownership laws, but to demonise the entire psychology linked to so much as ever wanting to own one.

[gabosaurus]

Care to share with us? LINK? And don't say you can't find it now, I'll give you ten different ways to look through your history to find what you read. This is TWO times now you stated conservative, so it's no mistake. Odd that there's no link though, as you would rub that in folks faces, I think. So which is it, you going to post a link, or are you trolling again?

There were numerous references to Roof's parents within hours of the original incident. Now they have been redacted. I sense some legalities going on. Even the Daily Beast, a notorious renegade site, has removed original references to Roof's family.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

[Drummond]

There were numerous references to Roof's parents within hours of the original incident. Now they have been redacted. I sense some legalities going on. Even the Daily Beast, a notorious renegade site, has removed original references to Roof's family.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

... well ... er'm, could this have something to do with consideration for what's actually TRUE ?

Just a passing thought, Gabby. You see, some of us aren't completely devoted to propagandist one-upmanship motivations ...

[By the way, I'm looking forward to any account you may care to offer us on your return from England, as to how you found the British react to a Left-wing sympathiser who's nonetheless willing to support a death penalty punishment for ANY reason, WHATSOEVER ...:D]

[Gunny]

I've taken a look at a handful of British news media outlets reporting on this.

The Leftie Guardian, on the question of how he got his gun, leave that question open. From ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/19/shooting-suspect-dylann-roof-confesses-reports

... I see ...



The Daily Mail (a leading Conservative paper) goes into very great detail (way too much to reproduce here)... though they leave the issue of how he obtained the gun alone, from what I've seen ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130396/Dylann-Storm-Roof-21-glares-hauled-away-cuffs.html

The BBC chooses to devote time and effort on another aspect .. one I think they're following to advance an agenda of their own. See ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33198061



ALL of this is sparked off by a kid whose killing spree was - I'm sure - a product of his OWN mind. Evil, to be sure ... but I think the BBC is doing its damndest to Leftily hype up a so-called 'aspect' in order to indulge heavy bias against the way they want America to be perceived.

And note the way they link all this in to their message on the American gun culture, with:



Speaks for itself, I think ... an effort to not only strongly advocate the need for much stricter gun ownership laws, but to demonise the entire psychology linked to so much as ever wanting to own one.

Your conservatism just went down the toilet, bubba.

[Max R.]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.
So no need for a trial? Just execute him in the street? Same for the parents?

Sorry, but that's not the American way. I haven't heard of any racist views from the parents. In fact, the last I saw, there's still confusion as to whether his father bought him the pistol as a birthday present or that he bought it himself using money from his 21st birthday.

The comments from his roommate indicate Roof's racist views are a new development. Either he was radicalized somehow or, and I'm more inclined to think this is more likely, Roof's increasingly racist views are a symptom of increasing mental illness. Adult-onset schizophrenia? A tumor?

[jimnyc]

There were numerous references to Roof's parents within hours of the original incident. Now they have been redacted. I sense some legalities going on. Even the Daily Beast, a notorious renegade site, has removed original references to Roof's family.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

It's still not the quote you gave. I won't argue semantics though and give you credit for replying with something that pointed to him/them as a conservative, however weak.

[Max R.]

There were numerous references to Roof's parents within hours of the original incident. Now they have been redacted. I sense some legalities going on. Even the Daily Beast, a notorious renegade site, has removed original references to Roof's family.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html
Legalities as in the references were false and those "news" services didn't want to be sued for defamation?

[Max R.]

Local news is now reporting that he bought the gun with money received for his birthday rather than receiving the gun as a gift as was initially being reported...

This tidbit of information only goes to reinforce my opinion that, no matter how many laws are passed in an effort to cover every contingency, some how, some way, crazy people will slip through the cracks and do crazy shit (there are reports that Root was medicated)...

Not long after I moved here, there was an incident involving a gal and a gun and a school. She was off her meds or her meds weren't right and she took a gun to a school with the intention of shooting a teacher. The gun misfiredd, she was arrested, and the state legislature passed a law to prevent the mentally ill from getting guns.

Doesn't seem to have worked out in the case of Dylan Root...Agreed.

In fact, even if President Obama's 2013 anti-gun bill had passed, nothing in it would have prevented this tragedy.

[indago]

This guy, "Dylann", should be dragged kicking and screaming to an electric chair and fried to a crisp, with the whole world watching as an example of what happens to those who would reign such devastation on mankind.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9RYLabxCg

[revelarts]

"The children of a victim of the Charleston church massacre said they have already forgiven their mother's killer.
Camryn and Chris Singleton, whose mother Sharonda Coleman-Singleton was one of nine people shot dead at a bible study group at Emanuel AME Church on Wednesday, spoke out during a vigil at the school where she taught.
Their incredible interview came as new pictures emerged of suspect Dylann Storm Roof in chains, smirking as he left a police station in Shelby, North Carolina before he was put on a plane back to South Carolina where the tragedy took place

Speaking at Goose Creek High - where mother-of-three Sharonda, 45, worked as a girls athletics coach - her teenage son Chris said: 'We already forgive him for what he's done, and there's nothing but love from our side of the family', the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33194121)reports.
His sister Camryn added: 'I just feel a lot of love. I'm a little bitter, but I'm overwhelmed with love.'

In an Instagram post, shared on Twitter, Chris paid tribute to his mother.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/19/08/29BD64DA00000578-0-image-a-2_1434699563751.jpg
He wrote: 'You were a better mother than I could have ever asked for.
'This has truly broken my heart in every way possible, but I know I have to stay strong for my little brother and sister.
'I thank everyone for your prayers and thoughts, but I'm positive this strong woman is in a better place now.
'Keep my family in your prayers as we continue with this horrid grieving process.'
Sharonda was a minister on staff at the Emanuel AME Church, where Roof reportedly sat with the weekly bible study group for an hour before he opened fire.
It is alleged he reloaded his gun five times during the shooting spree that killed three women and six males, including Reverend Clementa Pinckney, who is also a South Carolina state senator.
Survivor Sylvia Johnson, Pinckney's cousin, told NBC News that she had pleaded with him to stop shooting.

'He just said: 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go',' Sylvia Johnson said.
Roof spared one woman so she could 'tell the world what happened', eye witnesses recounted, while a five-year-old girl also survived the attack after her grandmother told her to play dead.
Roof was arrested before noon on Thursday in Shelby, 250 miles away from the church where the attack took place, and is now in custody."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131103/There-s-love-Children-victim-Charleston-church-massacre-say-forgiven-mother-s-killer.html#ixzz3dXqarwXJ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJiZ8GQjM0w

[revelarts]

'He just said: 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go','
Sylvia Johnson said.

poor idiot.
I've said this before but, racism is one of the stupidest waste of mind, emotional energy and life that there is.

Ungodly, evil, stupid, irrational and even on a pragmatic level counterproductive.

[Gunny]

You don't even want to know what i'm thinking.

[Drummond]

"The children of a victim of the Charleston church massacre said they have already forgiven their mother's killer.
Camryn and Chris Singleton, whose mother Sharonda Coleman-Singleton was one of nine people shot dead at a bible study group at Emanuel AME Church on Wednesday, spoke out during a vigil at the school where she taught.
Their incredible interview came as new pictures emerged of suspect Dylann Storm Roof in chains, smirking as he left a police station in Shelby, North Carolina before he was put on a plane back to South Carolina where the tragedy took place

Speaking at Goose Creek High - where mother-of-three Sharonda, 45, worked as a girls athletics coach - her teenage son Chris said: 'We already forgive him for what he's done, and there's nothing but love from our side of the family', the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33194121)reports.
His sister Camryn added: 'I just feel a lot of love. I'm a little bitter, but I'm overwhelmed with love.'

In an Instagram post, shared on Twitter, Chris paid tribute to his mother.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/19/08/29BD64DA00000578-0-image-a-2_1434699563751.jpg
He wrote: 'You were a better mother than I could have ever asked for.
'This has truly broken my heart in every way possible, but I know I have to stay strong for my little brother and sister.
'I thank everyone for your prayers and thoughts, but I'm positive this strong woman is in a better place now.
'Keep my family in your prayers as we continue with this horrid grieving process.'
Sharonda was a minister on staff at the Emanuel AME Church, where Roof reportedly sat with the weekly bible study group for an hour before he opened fire.
It is alleged he reloaded his gun five times during the shooting spree that killed three women and six males, including Reverend Clementa Pinckney, who is also a South Carolina state senator.
Survivor Sylvia Johnson, Pinckney's cousin, told NBC News that she had pleaded with him to stop shooting.

'He just said: 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go',' Sylvia Johnson said.
Roof spared one woman so she could 'tell the world what happened', eye witnesses recounted, while a five-year-old girl also survived the attack after her grandmother told her to play dead.
Roof was arrested before noon on Thursday in Shelby, 250 miles away from the church where the attack took place, and is now in custody."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131103/There-s-love-Children-victim-Charleston-church-massacre-say-forgiven-mother-s-killer.html#ixzz3dXqarwXJ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJiZ8GQjM0w

Where the BBC is concerned, can you really be that naive ? Or, maybe you aren't, and want to assist them with their agenda ?

I've already posted evidence of the bias the BBC is disseminating. This broadly follows it. The BBC, being our State broadcaster AND a Leftie organisation (even though they themselves deny it) .. are pushing propaganda that's trying to divide public opinion away from the death penalty judgment they believe will be forthcoming.

In my culture, there's a strong and long-serving feeling against State punishments which lead to death. The BBC is trying to paint those motivated in that way as extremist, and show that the waters in this instance DESERVE to be muddied.

British society is broadly anti-gun ownership. It's also, in the main, anti-death penalty. The BBC will happily position themselves to reflect these views, having first helped to create their prevalence.

These are things I'll never agree with. I think gun ownership IS the way to go, to break dependence-culture biases and foster self-reliance. With the single hesitation I have, that of courts making an error in judgment they cannot retract, I am otherwise fully in agreement with the idea that there are crimes so heinous that they deserve death as a sentence for justice to be served.

But then .. I'm not an equivocating Leftie. I deal with reality in its own terms.

[gabosaurus]

It's still not the quote you gave. I won't argue semantics though and give you credit for replying with something that pointed to him/them as a conservative, however weak.

I can't give you the quote I used if it no longer exists anyplace. It is obvious that Roof's family are attempting to distance themselves from the situation.
My question is -- how did this guy develop his extremist views? Since he lived at home and had these opinions for quite some times, obviously his family did not object to them. And, considering his numerous forays into drugs and racial hatred, certainly did nothing to stop him or obtain help.

The gun issue is a non-starter in this case. Roof is a domestic terrorist. As are all white supremacists.

[Drummond]

Your conservatism just went down the toilet, bubba.

Sorry, not following you at all.

I've shown you the propaganda that the Left is feeding us with. The point is to show this up for what it is.

How is it anti-Conservative to expose garbage designed to paint Conservatism as fringe extremism ? Or to expose the determination of the anti-gun movement ?

[LongTermGuy]

Found this and makes sense unless one is very Left Leaning......
***********************************
~ "Every time there's an event like this, the first thing that happens is to explore ways to turn it into a way to advance the Democrat Party or the leftist political agenda. They get away with that, and they also get away with making themselves look like they're the ones -- the only ones -- who care, the only ones who are not racist, the only ones who have compassion. When in fact, they're using everybody involved in this.
They're using all of the things that they can gain control of to advance their political agenda (which is the elimination of any political opposition, by the way). I'm just asking:
(Pay attention here)
**How long does it take for people to be pummeled with this stuff before it begins to affect your outlook on life, particularly if you're a young child? I don't know how many of you parents have had your kids come to you and demand that you get rid of the car because it's killing polar bears, but I'll betcha it's a lot.
And if it's not that example, it's something else. And how many of you have sat 'em down and told 'em what they're hearing is BS versus how many of you have tried to placate them by assuring them that you're not trying to destroy the planet and you'll do better, and how many of you have actually gone out and changed cars because of it? Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, the rest of them Democrat Party try to blame talk radio for this.

***
Yet you want to hear the truth, ladies and gentlemen? Every time they try to establish this connection, there isn't one. There really isn't a connection between prominent conservative media and any of these horrible public crimes, mass shootings, things like this that happen in Charleston or the school shootings wherever you go. There isn't a conservative link. *Most often what's been found is a kid's mind fried on some kind of psych drug. The vast majority of cases it's been that.

There have been instances where media influences have been predominantly left, such as left-wing music, left-wing politics or what have you. In fact, let me give you an example. Some of you may have forgotten this. There's this hate group down in the South somewhere called the Southern Poverty Law Center, and there's this real goofy guy running it by the name of Mark Potok. He happens to be a featured favored guest on all of left-wing media. And you know what his "expertise" is? Conservative hatemongering.

*He's the go-to guy. Whenever the media wants anybody to give details on where the conservatives are hating people and how it's manifesting itself, you go get Mark Potok. So Mark Potok has a website and on his website he lists all the "hate" organizations that his organization has studied and uncovered. One of those hate organizations is the Family Research Council, and one of the deranged supporters of the Southern Poverty Law Center actually went out and got a gun.....

He went to the Family Research Council headquarters and starts shooting! He was directly tied to a left-wing hate group. Not supposed. Not maybe. Not could be. But definitely! The guy was inspired to go get a gun. A good liberal, a good Democrat, he was inspired to go get a gun and start shooting up the Family Research Council. This, of course, was totally ignored. The incident was totally ignored by the rest of the media and the Drive-Bys. There have been other instances of absolute wacko, lunatic leftists attempting plots in Washington, DC. .....
When the plot's originally uncovered, the media went into gear. "This has to be connection to talk radio!" They found out....."Nope. It was a connection to liberal hate groups," special interest groups, media, politics, what have you. As hard as the media looks, they seldom find this magical right-wing connection that they will use and be able to use to eliminate conservative media." ~

[revelarts]

Where the BBC is concerned, can you really be that naive ? Or, maybe you aren't, and want to assist them with their agenda ?

I've already posted evidence of the bias the BBC is disseminating. This broadly follows it. The BBC, being our State broadcaster AND a Leftie organisation (even though they themselves deny it) .. are pushing propaganda that's trying to divide public opinion away from the death penalty judgment they believe will be forthcoming.

In my culture, there's a strong and long-serving feeling against State punishments which lead to death. The BBC is trying to paint those motivated in that way as extremist, and show that the waters in this instance DESERVE to be muddied.

British society is broadly anti-gun ownership. It's also, in the main, anti-death penalty. The BBC will happily position themselves to reflect these views, having first helped to create their prevalence.

These are things I'll never agree with. I think gun ownership IS the way to go, to break dependence-culture biases and foster self-reliance. With the single hesitation I have, that of courts making an error in judgment they cannot retract, I am otherwise fully in agreement with the idea that there are crimes so heinous that they deserve death as a sentence for justice to be served.

But then .. I'm not an equivocating Leftie. I deal with reality in its own terms.

Um Ok what?
what i posted had nothing to do with gun control.
It was a post about personal christian forgiveness and honoring a parent's memory.

please don't sniff around that particular post looking for leftist agenda Drummond.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I've to take this op to say.

imo THIS is the kind of comment that should come whenever crimes are committed. any crimes.
It's been said here a couple of times i think "his race doesn't matter" and even if he's found to be part of some hardcore racist group like the KKK, it doesn't really matter. It's a crime by an bad individual.
No one here wants to blame or smear a whole race because ONE or a few killers and idiots do horrific things. Will this attitude transfer so that the next time a black idiot kills a white person? I hope that somehow it will not turned into PAGES of comments that harangue "black culture" or say Sharpton's getting what he wanted or it's Obama fault feeding into "a race war", what Obama "REALY" wants and the like claiming it's "the truth" etc etc..

the replies here have NOT tried to jump to the conclusions about "white culture" being violent, and conservatives getting what they really want. Just because the guy MAY IN FACT be conservative and pro south. No one here thinks it's reasonable that he should be thought of as representative of "white culture" "conservatives" "the south" "red necks" or "real" desires of Ted Neugent or says Fox News final got what they REALLY wanted more dead blacks.
That would not be reasonable or fair would it?

"The murderer had no justification for his actions and doesn't matter if he is left-wing, right-wing or just crazy."
"He murdered nine innocent people and their race matters not either."
He needs a speedy and fair trial, if found guilty as charged"

THIS is how we start overcoming a lot of racial divisiveness.
Dealing with every crime should START HERE imo.

The poor motives and influences of the individual need to brought out and dealt with but not with blanket charges of blame thrown out wily nily on those who may have things in common with the perps. But also It seems to me everyone could tone down the rhetoric and respect each other as human beings more then maybe some of the idiots won't jump to the wrong conclusions. But ultimately each criminals mind and actions are their own.

I'm not sure i'm saying this the best way to get the point across, but whatever, I hope what i mean is clear here.


:beer: :salute: :beer: :clap: -Tyr

[revelarts]

So we have a confessed killer.
it's fair to look at the motives of this guy.


....“He was big into segregation and other stuff,” Tyler told ABC News. “He said he wanted to start a civil war. He said he was going to do something like that and then kill himself.”
Tyler described Roof as "on and off" with his parents, according to ABC News. Members of Roof's immediate family have not given extensive comment on his alleged crime.
A woman who on Thursday answered a cellphone belonging to Roof's mother, Amelia, told Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/us-usa-shooting-south-carolina-roof-idUSKBN0OY28220150618) "We will be doing no interviews ever."....


can't blame her for that

http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/p9vtzvyatej11ybxux1n.jpg


....Mark Pitcavage, the director of investigative research for the Anti-Defamation League, said two patches on a jacket Roof was wearing in the only public photo on the Facebook page are symbols of the white supremacist movement. One patch is the flag of South Africa's Apartheid government while the other is the flag of the former white-controlled country of Rhodesia, which later became Zimbabwe, Pitcavage said.
The photo of Roof wearing the jacket with flag patches was posted late last month.
But Antonio Metze, who told The Associated Press (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHARLESTON_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) he was friends with Roof in high school, said he was surprised that his former classmate allegedly carried out the attack.
"I never thought he'd do something like this," Metze told the AP. "He had black friends."....

...Tyler, the suspect's roommate, also spoke with the Times and recalled a drive en route to a strip club when Roof used a racist word to refer to a black woman (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dylann-roof-racist-language) he saw.
“I’ll shoot your ass," Roof then said in reference to the black woman, according to Tyler....



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dylann-roof-plan-charleston-shooting
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dylann-roof-charleston-suspect-facts

Question, does it help anyone to promote racist ideas at all?
The kid wasn't born thinking that apartheid African countries were good and that "backs are taking over" the U.S. while he lived in state that flew the confederate flag over the capital and drove on rads with rebel general names. in a country where most major biz and politics are still run by white men like himself.

Do people need to question and condemn the type of thinking that he espoused? It's not foreign to a lot americans.
Should we just keep silent when people say things that are CLEARLY racist? and just let it slide by? goes for blacks and whites right.

[Jeff]

I can't give you the quote I used if it no longer exists anyplace. It is obvious that Roof's family are attempting to distance themselves from the situation.
My question is -- how did this guy develop his extremist views? Since he lived at home and had these opinions for quite some times, obviously his family did not object to them. And, considering his numerous forays into drugs and racial hatred, certainly did nothing to stop him or obtain help.

The gun issue is a non-starter in this case. Roof is a domestic terrorist. As are all white supremacists.

Wow, Gabs you of all people, you scream for a link or scream the link is no good all the time, but you just happened to forget to post your link and OOO NOOO it's gone today, yup Roger, over and out.

[Kathianne]

I can't give you the quote I used if it no longer exists anyplace. It is obvious that Roof's family are attempting to distance themselves from the situation.
My question is -- how did this guy develop his extremist views? Since he lived at home and had these opinions for quite some times, obviously his family did not object to them. And, considering his numerous forays into drugs and racial hatred, certainly did nothing to stop him or obtain help.

The gun issue is a non-starter in this case. Roof is a domestic terrorist. As are all white supremacists.

White Supremacists are not domestic terrorists, unless they act on their philosophy. Nor are Black Supremacists, unless they act on their philosophy. Note I'm not saying that philosophies are not of import, only have to look at ISIS for a philosophy compounded with successes to find young people willing to put the ideas into actions.

Actually at home the philosophy that seems to actually garnering the most victims today seems to be those connected with the women's movement coupled with the federal government push on Title IX, where the definition of rape has been expanded to unwanted looks or kiss that may have been wanted, but consent wasn't verbalized. Due process on campuses across the nation are finally being given a look.

[revelarts]

the definition of terrorist is fluid since 9-11, people yelling at a stewardess on a plane for some attention have been taken to court on "terrorism" charges. So have those making gold coins, and many others doing criminal and not even criminal actions.

seems the level of fear and the idea that the gov't must protect us from every threat "unwanted looks and kisses" and people yelling at graduations, open carry a weapon, carrying a pocket knife, heck playing with toy gun, selling un-permitted lemonade on the street corner.

it's all scary to some people and scary = fear = terror therefore it's all terrorism i guess right?

[Kathianne]

White Supremacists are not domestic terrorists, unless they act on their philosophy. Nor are Black Supremacists, unless they act on their philosophy. Note I'm not saying that philosophies are not of import, only have to look at ISIS for a philosophy compounded with successes to find young people willing to put the ideas into actions.

Actually at home the philosophy that seems to actually garnering the most victims today seems to be those connected with the women's movement coupled with the federal government push on Title IX, where the definition of rape has been expanded to unwanted looks or kiss that may have been wanted, but consent wasn't verbalized. Due process on campuses across the nation are finally being given a look.

Replying to myself, weird.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/finally-someone-in-the-national-media-is-standing-up-for-due-process/article/2566652


Finally, someone in the national media is standing up for due process

BY ASHE SCHOW (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/author/ashe-schow) | JUNE 19, 2015 | 2:57 PM

...

Above is response to this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/17/accused-is-guilty-campus-rape-tribunals-punish-without-proof-say-critics/


'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

Published June 17, 2015

...

The former student, whose name has not been made public, was expelled after his alleged victim, the roommate of his girlfriend, complained some 21 months after the incident and despite what evidence appears to show was consensual sex. As in many campus procedures which enforce school sanctions and not criminal law, only a finding that he was “more likely than not” guilty was necessary.

“Essentially the procedure there works under the assumption that the accused is guilty and needs to use the hearing to prove his innocence,” K.C. Johnson, author of “Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustice of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case," told Fox News Channel's Megyn Kelly. “But he isn’t given the tools to do that. He doesn’t have discovery, he can’t get the relevant evidence he needs, he doesn’t have an attorney representing him [and has] limited right of cross examination.

"So there’s virtually no way, once an accusation is made and gets into the system at a place like Amherst, and Amherst is not unique, that the accused can be exonerated,” Johnson said.

...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

the definition of terrorist is fluid since 9-11, people yelling at a stewardess on a plane for some attention have been taken to court on "terrorism" charges. So have those making gold coins, and many others doing criminal and not even criminal actions.

seems the level of fear and the idea that the gov't must protect us from every threat "unwanted looks and kisses" and people yelling at graduations, open carry a weapon, carrying a pocket knife, heck playing with toy gun, selling un-permitted lemonade on the street corner.

it's all scary to some people and scary = fear = terror therefore it's all terrorism i guess right?
And most of that is dem/liberal policy, thinking, hysteria and stupidity. Vast majority of conservatives hate most of that with a passion and see the idea of the dem/lib zero tolerance laws/regulations , etc is actually totalitarianism wearing a different name and definition..

Arresting or fining a 7 year old for selling lemonade out on his front driveway is a great example of their massive stupidity and addiction to power and absolute control. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So we have a confessed killer.
it's fair to look at the motives of this guy.



can't blame her for that

http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/p9vtzvyatej11ybxux1n.jpg



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dylann-roof-plan-charleston-shooting
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dylann-roof-charleston-suspect-facts

Question, does it help anyone to promote racist ideas at all?
The kid wasn't born thinking that apartheid African countries were good and that "backs are taking over" the U.S. while he lived in state that flew the confederate flag over the capital and drove on rads with rebel general names. in a country where most major biz and politics are still run by white men like himself.

Do people need to question and condemn the type of thinking that he espoused? It's not foreign to a lot americans.
Should we just keep silent when people say things that are CLEARLY racist? and just let it slide by? goes for blacks and whites right.





goes for blacks and whites right

ummmmmmmmmmm, no does not go for blacks, as famous black athletes, celebrities , political leaders constantly say pure racist things against whites and are not only not punished for it but so often are lauded/celebrated for it instead!
Now that in no way excuses whites for being racist but acknowledging its a two-way street leads to a more serious and civil discussion on the topic.
If all cards are not put on the table(this topic they never are) the ensuing discussion is suspect and bogus from the start IMHO.-Tyr

[Jeff]

The shooting in S.C. further demonstrates how dangerous and mentally unbalanced many right-wing extremists are.
The shooter deserves the death penalty. His family deserves public shame and humiliation for their racist viewpoints.

I realize there are some that don't consider this much of a crime. In their view, black people are not the equivalent of whites, and their deaths should not be mourned on the same level as white deaths. Nine dead black people is nine less blacks you have to worry about.
I know this from reading the white supremacy forums (some of you might have seen the same) and far right boards. Where blacks are viewed in the same light as Muslims and other non-Christians.

Kind of sad, but typical of the fractured society in which we currently live in.


There were numerous references to Roof's parents within hours of the original incident. Now they have been redacted. I sense some legalities going on. Even the Daily Beast, a notorious renegade site, has removed original references to Roof's family.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html


I can't give you the quote I used if it no longer exists anyplace. It is obvious that Roof's family are attempting to distance themselves from the situation.
My question is -- how did this guy develop his extremist views? Since he lived at home and had these opinions for quite some times, obviously his family did not object to them. And, considering his numerous forays into drugs and racial hatred, certainly did nothing to stop him or obtain help.

The gun issue is a non-starter in this case. Roof is a domestic terrorist. As are all white supremacists.


I can't give you the quote I used if it no longer exists anyplace. It is obvious that Roof's family are attempting to distance themselves from the situation.
My question is -- how did this guy develop his extremist views? Since he lived at home and had these opinions for quite some times, obviously his family did not object to them. And, considering his numerous forays into drugs and racial hatred, certainly did nothing to stop him or obtain help.

The gun issue is a non-starter in this case. Roof is a domestic terrorist. As are all white supremacists.

I don't know Gabs, seems the people that knew him had a little different take on him and his family. :rolleyes:


A childhood friend has offered a very different view of the young man accused of murdering nine people in a South Carolina church (http://www.cbsnews.com/charleston-shooting/). Caleb Brown was good friends with Dylann Roof from grade school until high school, and the boy he knew is nothing like the man described by Roof's more recent acquaintances.
Brown says he was shocked to hear that Roof was the alleged gunman behind the mass shooting during a bible study at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston.



<embed src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/video/cbsnews_video.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="pType=embed&si=254&pid=sJgHsdtspjk7&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/dylann-roofs-childhood-friend-speaks-out" height="279" width="425">




And yes he even talks about the right wing gun toting racist family he is from. :rolleyes:


Brown said he knew Roof to be a happy, normal kid, but he also said he had not seen him in a year and a half.
"That was not inside of him the entire time I knew that kid, or his mom, they were not like that," Brown said. "And I still believe that his mom is one of the greatest people... one of the nicest ladies I've ever met. If something in him turned, then it was recent. It wasn't his whole life; he wasn't sitting, bubbling with hatred towards black people -- no, that just happened and I don't know why."


As for his gun toting right wing racist family buying him a gun, not only is that false but Mom had taken the gun from him because he couldn't be trusted with it ( that was from another article I read, but I am sure you can look it up ) but here is the words from another of his friends, the one that spilled the beans about the kid being a complete moron, and according to the other article it was his sister ( I believe ) that gave him up, yup a real right wing gun toting racist family.


Meek also said during their reunion a few weeks ago that Roof had told him he used birthday money from his parents to buy a .45-caliber Glock pistol, and that he had "a plan" that was six months in the making.


Wow not only did they hide the post, they also changed it all. :laugh:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charleston-church-shooter-dylann-roof-childhood-friend-speaks/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17<script src="http://secure-us.imrworldwide.com/novms/js/2/ggcmb400.js?r=1434819042666"></script>

[revelarts]

ummmmmmmmmmm, no does not go for blacks, as famous black athletes, celebrities , political leaders constantly say pure racist things against whites and are not only not punished for it but so often are lauded/celebrated for it instead!
Now that in no way excuses whites for being racist but acknowledging its a two-way street leads to a more serious and civil discussion on the topic.
If all cards are not put on the table(this topic they never are) the ensuing discussion is suspect and bogus from the start IMHO.-Tyr
but yeah there are black racist, there's no doubt. and they should change or STHU.
but what famous black athletes, celebrities , political leaders do you have in mind (besides Obama and Holder)

And do you mean those guys say things like they want segregation, they want to start a civil war, or they sell patches to kids that represent black supremacist movement, they have license plates with the flag of defunked countries where whites were slaves to blacks, they drive by white women on the street say they'll shoot their white asres, and they say whites rape our women, and that whites are taking over and that they must be stopped?

they don't do that do they?

But Ted Neugent says some things and some people say nothing he said is really racist.
so famous people sometime get a pass i guess others like the southern cook woman not so much.

[Gunny]

I don't even know what to say. So I'll just just act like a Southerner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeW1RnubKPY

[revelarts]

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/06/21/us/21website-web/21website-web-master675.jpg

COLUMBIA, S.C. — Dylann Roof spat on and burned the American flag, but waved the Confederate.He posed for pictures wearing a No. 88 T-shirt, had 88 Facebook friends and wrote that number — white supremacist code for “Heil Hitler”— in the South Carolina sand.
A website discovered Saturday appears to offer the first serious look at Mr. Roof’s thinking, including how the case of Trayvon Martin, the black Florida teenager shot to death in 2012 by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, triggered his racist rage. The site shows a stash of 60 photographs of Mr. Roof, many at Confederate heritage sites or slavery museums, and includes a racist manifesto in which the author criticized blacks as being inferior while lamenting the cowardice of white flight.
“I have no choice,” it reads. “I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country. We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.”...

....Criticisms are levied at Hispanics and Jews, but Asians are praised for being racists and potential allies. Whites are unfairly portrayed as all having been slave owners, the essay says. In reality, the author wrote, slavery was not that bad.
Mr. Brown said his friend’s transformation appeared to have occurred after he transferred to a new high school in Lexington.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html?_r=1

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html?_r=1
Looks like a boy that got no sex and was unhappy about missing out. The girls were dating BLACK GUYS AND HE FELT betrayed and left out.
Adopted skin head stupidity, lived in a fantasy world and murdered several innocent people because he was just too scared to face the ones he thought messed him over(blacks)- as in he took the coward's way out(murdered unarmed innocent people) like these type seem to do.
Punk is likely completely crazy... -Tyr

[Drummond]

Um Ok what?
what i posted had nothing to do with gun control.

Not directly, no.

But, you did post that BBC clip. Clips like that, certainly so far as the BBC are concerned, have value because they help create sentiment that detracts from the great need to take a hard line which addresses culpability for such crime.

[You have to remember that when the BBC broadcast, their principal target is their home audience. They'd be delighted to see that home audience remain in lockstep with themselves.]

And ... also where the BBC is concerned, such a direction helps promote gun control. If propaganda distances against a focus on the culpability of the individual, then people will look to the State to do THEIR bit to fix a problem. And how does that translate into power wielded by the State ? Answer ... ever-greater CONTROLS implemented.


It was a post about personal christian forgiveness and honoring a parent's memory.

please don't sniff around that particular post looking for leftist agenda Drummond.

I understand your point. Even so, if you 'happen' to serve Leftist interests when you post, naturally I'll form an opinion as to why you're doing that.

[Jeff]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html?_r=1

Rev the #88 is also the famous Nascar drivers #, but you may also be 100% right, there is no doubt this kid is a loon sure enough.

[Gunny]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html?_r=1

Okay. Fuse blown. Taking WHAT on you pansy-ass son of a bitch? People armed with fucking Bibles?

I don't want the death penalty for this asshat. Hell no. Put him in a cell with bubba for the next 60 years. I'm sure bubba will be more than willing to listen to the race war shit. Right after this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy61Va1L4cM

[Jeff]

Okay. Fuse blown. Taking WHAT on you pansy-ass son of a bitch? People armed with fucking Bibles?

I don't want the death penalty for this asshat. Hell no. Put him in a cell with bubba for the next 60 years. I'm sure bubba will be more than willing to listen to the race war shit. Right after this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy61Va1L4cM


Gunny I think it was hjmick that said throw him in with the biggest baddest black dude in the pen and let him have at this little punk, man now that is real punishment, that little fellow is going to be a woman in a matter days and to think Bruce Jenner had to make such a big deal about it. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Well, sparky, let's see how 0 you are.

Wanted to start a race war. You got Amazing Grace backatcha.

All you really accomplished was giving Billary a platform to blame inanimate objects.

Way to go, fuckwit. All in all I'd say you're quite the success at being a loser.

[gabosaurus]

So somehow this guy became a racist redneck animal without his parent's approval? Yeah, that happens I suppose. :rolleyes:
When I see someone's confederate flag and other such symbols, I know what their views on racism are.

[Voted4Reagan]

So somehow this guy became a racist redneck animal without his parent's approval? Yeah, that happens I suppose. :rolleyes:
When I see someone's confederate flag and other such symbols, I know what their views on racism are.

Yeah... with you on that one Gabs.

A redneck kid holding a handgun, burning an American Flag and wearing a Justin Bieber Haircut....

Yeah... keep him away

[Gunny]

So somehow this guy became a racist redneck animal without his parent's approval? Yeah, that happens I suppose. :rolleyes:
When I see someone's confederate flag and other such symbols, I know what their views on racism are.

There's nothing racist about the Confederate battle flag. Other than people looking for a lame excuse to accuse. Welfare and food stamps are more racist than that flag.

[Max R.]

'He just said: 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go','
Sylvia Johnson said.

poor idiot.
I've said this before but, racism is one of the stupidest waste of mind, emotional energy and life that there is.

Ungodly, evil, stupid, irrational and even on a pragmatic level counterproductive.

Do you just like pissing in the wind or do you really think anyone is going to disagree with you about racism?

[tailfins]

So somehow this guy became a racist redneck animal without his parent's approval? Yeah, that happens I suppose. :rolleyes:
When I see someone's confederate flag and other such symbols, I know what their views on racism are.

There are members of society when people piss on them long enough, this is what they become. Maybe a friend ten years ago would have meant none of this ever happening.

[Max R.]

There's nothing racist about the Confederate battle flag. Other than people looking for a lame excuse to accuse. Welfare and food stamps are more racist than that flag.
Agreed, however, some a**holes have used a flag of terrific heritage for evil purposes. That, but itself, isn't reason enough to ban the flag, just reason enough to denounce the racists....and for those who really do respect the heritage of the CSA flag, they should strongly denounce both racism and the actions of Dylann Roof and all a**holes like him.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/29px7j5.jpg

[aboutime]

There's nothing racist about the Confederate battle flag. Other than people looking for a lame excuse to accuse. Welfare and food stamps are more racist than that flag.


Gunny. Once again I must agree with you. And, will take it a step further for those who claim such things incite racism. Pragmatically, and realistically...the very mention of ABE LINCOLN, or the AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, should be considered the same way. That is..unless, as we have been seeing. Being uneducated, and uninformed about History, allows those to use simple examples they pretend to hate...such as the Confederate Battle Flag, to be cause enough to allow the ignorant to have such a weak example of their ignorance.

[revelarts]

Do you just like pissing in the wind or do you really think anyone is going to disagree with you about racism?
someone disagree with ME about racism? you'd be surprised

[Max R.]

someone disagree with ME about racism? you'd be surprised
No doubt there are racists among all racists and cultures just like there are sick f*cks among all races and cultures. I'm just asking if you really think someone on this forum is going to say "Oh, racism is good! Why are you denouncing it?"

[Jeff]

Wow :laugh:

Kind of stepped into it again huh Gabs, I won't go on about how do you know this guy was a right winger as others have already or were did you get info about his family, hell I live a couple of hours from there and have heard nothing of them, but I will ask you this, when blacks are rioting and going crazy because a black thug that had just committed strong armed robbery and then attacked a police officer is killed , well what sites did you go to then Gabs, as I remember I didn't see a comment from you , other than the usually BS, "look here, a duh look at the guy that called it in Duh", like that matters.

But I have to ask, why do you hate your own race so much ? Those poor folks in Charleston where attacked by a animal no matter his color, and I like you ( if you read the posts above ) agreed he needs to be put down, but I think hjmick punishment for him is a lot worse.

But do you really have a opinion or do you just want to rile folks up ? Because you really stepped in it here, one might ask why in the heck are you reading white supremacy boards, hell I am on the right and have never been to one of those boards. Just curious is all.

I see we got our answer in another thread, anyone that has a rebel flag is a right wing racist, Jeez Gabs is fun isn't she, kind of like the new toy ya get, fun for a while but then you grow bored of it. :laugh:

[revelarts]

No doubt there are racists among all racists and cultures just like there are sick f*cks among all races and cultures. I'm just asking if you really think someone on this forum is going to say "Oh, racism is good! Why are you denouncing it?"

No, I'm just expressing my own distaste about racism. There's nothing wrong with that is there?
My comments about racism weren't a question or a challenged to debate Max.
I'm pretty clear about making my differences of opinion known for that.

so no, Just as I and most others have expressed repeatedly disgust about Roof . i wanted to express my disgust about racism. since it's a huge factor in this event. does that clear it up for you?

[Max R.]

I see we got our answer in another thread, anyone that has a rebel flag is a right wing racist, Jeez Gabs is fun isn't she, kind of like the new toy ya get, fun for a while but then you grow bored of it. :laugh:

Agreed. This anti-flag mission of the LWLs is akin to their anti-gun mission.


1. First they'll seek to ban the flag on public grounds.

2. They seek to have the flag deemed racially provocative and make flying it illegal.

[aboutime]

Agreed. This anti-flag mission of the LWLs is akin to their anti-gun mission.


1. First they'll seek to ban the flag on public grounds.

2. They seek to have the flag deemed racially provocative and make flying it illegal.


Max R. Not to mention how the SCOTUS, and even individual states have made decisions about that flag, many times in the past. AND....it still FLIES legally, much to the opposition of those who must constantly claim they are insulted, offended, and bothered by visible things....like a CROSS on a hill that Honors Veterans.????

[Max R.]

Max R. Not to mention how the SCOTUS, and even individual states have made decisions about that flag, many times in the past. AND....it still FLIES legally, much to the opposition of those who must constantly claim they are insulted, offended, and bothered by visible things....like a CROSS on a hill that Honors Veterans.????
Agreed.

Just because someone says something is offensive isn't sufficient reason to ban it. It that was the case, then there's be a lot of things banned for one reason or another.

[aboutime]

Agreed.

Just because someone says something is offensive isn't sufficient reason to ban it. It that was the case, then there's be a lot of things banned for one reason or another.


Agreed. Come to think of it. If we all followed the POLITICALLY CORRECT here. There would be NO DP forum, or forums anywhere that didn't fit the Liberal (lack of) Mentality for what they call Tolerance.

[revelarts]

Banning the flag from personal use should never be done.
But it should be banned it from all Official gov't use. Absolutely.
We have a U.S. Flag already. Each state have flags and seals.
Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.
To have it used for official U.S. purposes -at the very least- sends a mixed message and does not represent Americas highest ideals.

[revelarts]

i'll just make on small observation here too.

many on right get extremely upset at Mexicans for flying the Mexican flag over or under the U.S. or a state flags at a business or home. Some vets have Physically taken Mexican flags down on others private property. to the cheers of some conservatives. LARaza claims southwest U.S. as Mexican territory or something as well.

I wonder how many would feel if the new Black Panther party flag flew over a state capital?

But many somehow feel righteously justified in flying the confederate flag over official gov't buildings, parks, businesses, homes, trucks, dog houses etc etc . often to the exclusion of the U.S. flag. I guess many southerners claim the south as still the confederacy too.

seems a bit of a double standard.

is it fair to throw up the question.
"If you love the confederacy so much why don't you leave?"
oh uh yeah lol.

[aboutime]

Banning the flag from personal use should never be done.
But it should be banned it from all Official gov't use. Absolutely.
We have a U.S. Flag already. Each state have flags and seals.
Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.
To have it used for official U.S. purposes -at the very least- sends a mixed message and does not represent Americas highest ideals.

From Your Friends at CNN:

Why?

It is a matter of state law.

Back in 2000, civil rights activists successfully lobbied to have a much larger Confederate flag removed from the Capitol dome. But there was a compromise. The South Carolina Heritage Act decreed that just about all other tributes to Confederate history would be virtually untouchable. The only way to change anything of that nature -- including the smaller flag that was erected on the State House lawn -- would be to gain the endorsement of two-thirds of lawmakers.

That's not likely here or in any other place where some have said for years that the flag is not about racism; it is about Southern pride and heritage.


I didn't make this up rev. It is legal in that state.

[revelarts]

From Your Friends at CNN:

Why?


We have a U.S. Flag already. Each state have flags and seals.
Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.
To have it used for official U.S. purposes -at the very least- sends a mixed message and does not represent Americas highest ideals.



It is a matter of state law.
Back in 2000, civil rights activists successfully lobbied to have a much larger Confederate flag removed from the Capitol dome. But there was a compromise. The South Carolina Heritage Act decreed that just about all other tributes to Confederate history would be virtually untouchable. The only way to change anything of that nature -- including the smaller flag that was erected on the State House lawn -- would be to gain the endorsement of two-thirds of lawmakers.
That's not likely here or in any other place...I didn't make this up rev. It is legal in that state.
i never said it wasn't legal i said it shouldn't be.




some have said for years that the flag is not about racism; it is about Southern pride and heritage.

...Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a known symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.

[aboutime]

We have a U.S. Flag already. Each state have flags and seals.
Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.
To have it used for official U.S. purposes -at the very least- sends a mixed message and does not represent Americas highest ideals.


i never said it wasn't legal i said it shouldn't be.



...Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a known symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.



Okay. Move to S.C., become a member of their Legislature, and put up a bill that makes it illegal to fly that flag....AGAIN. Wasting possibly Millions of more dollars to Be Rejected again.

[Jeff]

I lived in SC when this all come down about the flag on the state house and at that time they had agreed to place the flag on the property ( with a staue I believe ) but it wouldn't be flown over the state house any longer, so unless they went back on the law it is off the top of the state house, now when this law came into effect they also agreed to have a African American March, from Columbia to Charleston, for all the blacks had done to build the state, but I haven't seen the Itailin or Irish, Polish ect... march, how does that work?

As for flying the Mexiacn flag over top of the American flag, be serious this is America, the American flag always comes first, and yes I was in Columbia when the confederate flag flew over the state house, right under the American flag. Rev you make a lot of good points about the flag, I see both sides, but how about let the state vote on it, see in SC it was people that didn't even live in the state that made the most noise, yes bus loads. At that time they where having that college basketball championship in SC and Sharpton was pushing for a boycott of it, why should folks that don't live there even have a say. I am not sure the ratio black to white in SC but I do know a lot of my black friends thought that was the stupidest argument in the world, their exact words where, " we have one of the worst school systems in the country, we have some of the poorest area's in the country, and our state is broke, why worry about a piece of cloth.

[jimnyc]

As for flying the Mexiacn flag over top of the American flag,

Correct, and Mexico is not - while the confederacy was a part of Americans and American history.

[revelarts]

Correct, and Mexico is not - while the confederacy was a part of Americans and American history.
well Texas and parts of other states were in fact Mexico at one point. It is a part of American history. the Mexicans where defeated just as the Confederates were. and people of proud Mexican decent have lived there continuously since before the annexation and Mexican war.

so a real case can be made there, at least as good as rebel flag promoters.

[revelarts]

.. " we have one of the worst school systems in the country, we have some of the poorest area's in the country, and our state is broke, why worry about a piece of cloth.
that's a very real and significant issue.
But that's another issue entirely, and should be addressed as well.

But the "what about world peace" argument can be used on any issue though.

[jimnyc]

well Texas and parts of other states were in fact Mexico at one point. It is a part of American history. the Mexicans where defeated just as the Confederates were. and people of proud Mexican decent have lived there continuously since before the annexation and Mexican war.

so a real case can be made there, at least as good as rebel flag promoters.

Then I say in those locations, let Mexicans fly whatever flag they like, just not above the US flag. I don't think it was necessarily in those areas where the major issues started, but rather when folks flew them on top of the US flag and such. An inanimate object is not going to harm me.

[Gunny]

Agreed. Come to think of it. If we all followed the POLITICALLY CORRECT here. There would be NO DP forum, or forums anywhere that didn't fit the Liberal (lack of) Mentality for what they call Tolerance.

If I tried to be PC I'd more-n likely spontaneously combust. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Banning the flag from personal use should never be done.
But it should be banned it from all Official gov't use. Absolutely.
We have a U.S. Flag already. Each state have flags and seals.
Whatever else the rebel flag represents it's also a symbol of slavery, the kkk, lynching, segregation and racism.
To have it used for official U.S. purposes -at the very least- sends a mixed message and does not represent Americas highest ideals.

YOU have a US flag. It represents YOUR government so well.

Got news for you, skippy ... it's a British Naval battle standard. St Andrew's cross on a red field. Technically, that would make it a Scot naval battle standard.

It represents hatred only as much as people like you try to make it out to.

So, should we not have the Marine Corps colors? After all, it represents a WHOLE LOT of killing. You PC people hung up on words and pictures and flags need to go change your Huggies.

[Gunny]

i'll just make on small observation here too.

many on right get extremely upset at Mexicans for flying the Mexican flag over or under the U.S. or a state flags at a business or home. Some vets have Physically taken Mexican flags down on others private property. to the cheers of some conservatives. LARaza claims southwest U.S. as Mexican territory or something as well.

I wonder how many would feel if the new Black Panther party flag flew over a state capital?

But many somehow feel righteously justified in flying the confederate flag over official gov't buildings, parks, businesses, homes, trucks, dog houses etc etc . often to the exclusion of the U.S. flag. I guess many southerners claim the south as still the confederacy too.

seems a bit of a double standard.

is it fair to throw up the question.
"If you love the confederacy so much why don't you leave?"
oh uh yeah lol.

Completely different. Flying the flag of a foreign nation is quite different than flying a flag that represents a culture. Try again.

[Gunny]

well Texas and parts of other states were in fact Mexico at one point. It is a part of American history. the Mexicans where defeated just as the Confederates were. and people of proud Mexican decent have lived there continuously since before the annexation and Mexican war.

so a real case can be made there, at least as good as rebel flag promoters.

Lame. Texas was also a French possession. I think a bunch of mocking birds owned it once as well. You're REALLY digging to not be wrong and it isn't going to change the fact that you are.

[Gunny]

Then I say in those locations, let Mexicans fly whatever flag they like, just not above the US flag. I don't think it was necessarily in those areas where the major issues started, but rather when folks flew them on top of the US flag and such. An inanimate object is not going to harm me.

I hate to point this out, but the only people who care about that Mexican flag are people like rev. They have to make an issue out of everything. Nobody else cares.

And for rev: Flags were originally used as signals on a battlefield. Cell phones haven't always been around. The battle standard to which you refer isn't even the stars n bars; which, was the actual flag of the CSA. It was originally a British standard, then the 17th S Carolina adopted it as a battle standard. How it got to be the "Confederate flag" reeks of ignorance.

Hatred comes from within. It isn't a flag. This idiot murdered 9 people because he's a loser blaming everyone else for being one, just like stupid-ass yankees blame a flag.

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mUJLr-EZJQ


http://youtu.be/QUO-GZvKV74


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOkFD3W4ac

[Gunny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mUJLr-EZJQ


http://youtu.be/QUO-GZvKV74


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOkFD3W4ac

Guess you need to move to Texas. The Mexican flag is everywhere. I personally think it's stupid. Go back to Mexico if you love it so much. Take that retarded Puerto Rican flag with you.

But to each his own.

[revelarts]

...
And for rev: Flags were originally used as signals on a battlefield. Cell phones haven't always been around. The battle standard to which you refer isn't even the stars n bars; which, was the actual flag of the CSA. It was originally a British standard, then the 17th S Carolina adopted it as a battle standard. How it got to be the "Confederate flag" reeks of ignorance.
......

true

[DragonStryk72]

If they've got him, I want to find out his motivation. Thanks to many factors, it seems that hate is winning out.

You're one of the few. Pretty much everyone is screaming about racism, or about gun control. Just like with the Sandy Hook shooting, the clear and evident mental instability of the shooter, and how we keep missing these guys before they kill, is left completely out of the narrative.

[Kathianne]

You're one of the few. Pretty much everyone is screaming about racism, or about gun control. Just like with the Sandy Hook shooting, the clear and evident mental instability of the shooter, and how we keep missing these guys before they kill, is left completely out of the narrative.

Being a hate filled, insecure freak is not mental illness. As I said on an earlier post, the evidence seen so far via media may be depression, but since he drank a lot, seems he was self-medicating.

[Gunny]

You're one of the few. Pretty much everyone is screaming about racism, or about gun control. Just like with the Sandy Hook shooting, the clear and evident mental instability of the shooter, and how we keep missing these guys before they kill, is left completely out of the narrative.

Why do people like you always have to have an excuse? Mental illness? How about someone who can't handle his own failure taking it out on others? It's not the gun's, the flag's nor the GOP's faults.

It's the fact this chump can't get off his ass and do something. That would require effort, wouldn't it?

[fj1200]

Why do people like you always have to have an excuse?

Individually he has no excuse. Collectively we owe it to ourselves to discover if there is something more rooted than just the lefties screaming, "Aack, guns!!!"

[revelarts]

Why do people like you always ....

"people like you"?

:dunno:

[Perianne]

Excellent comparison between terrorists the left like and terrorists the left doesn't like.


Q: What’s the difference between Bill Ayers and Dylann Roof?

A: Dylann Roof isn’t a friend and colleague of an American president who enjoyed a cushy life in academia before retiring to life as the kind of author who’s invited on-the-air by the mainstream media to hawk his books.

Other than that, both of these pigs share much in common.

Bill Ayers is an unrepentant domestic terrorist.

Dylann Roof is an unrepentant domestic terrorist.

Bill Ayers despises America.

Dylann Roof despises America.

Bill Ayers’s terror group The Weather Underground targeted and murdered innocent people.

Dylann Roof targeted and murdered innocent people.

Bill Ayers used murder and violence and terror as a weapon for political change.

Dylann Roof used murder and violence and terror as a weapon for political change.


Bill Ayers wanted a race war.

Dylann Roof wants a race war.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/22/only-difference-between-dylann-roof-and-bill-ayers-is-legitimacy-among-the-left/

[Jeff]

No flag killed those folks in SC..


Fly what ever flag floats your boat, just don't do it above the American Flag, I don't care if you are from another country or not, you are in America now !!!


People say get rid of the Confederate flag because it is racist ( and to some it is ) but in the same token you will see a black person wearing a shirt that says it's our turn now, or it's a black thing you wouldn't understand, and many other sayings that they have a right to wear, should we make them remove them? If a kid wears a shirt to school with the confederate flag on it he is usually sent home, where as a black kid wears a shirt similar to the examples I gave that is OK, wow talk about double standards.

Bottom line live and let live, their will always be racist on all sides and always will be ignorance on all sides, we shouldn't try to police one but not all.

[Kathianne]

No flag killed those folks in SC..


Fly what ever flag floats your boat, just don't do it above the American Flag, I don't care if you are from another country or not, you are in America now !!!


People say get rid of the Confederate flag because it is racist ( and to some it is ) but in the same token you will see a black person wearing a shirt that says it's our turn now, or it's a black thing you wouldn't understand, and many other sayings that they have a right to wear, should we make them remove them? If a kid wears a shirt to school with the confederate flag on it he is usually sent home, where as a black kid wears a shirt similar to the examples I gave that is OK, wow talk about double standards.

Bottom line live and let live, their will always be racist on all sides and always will be ignorance on all sides, we shouldn't try to police one but not all.

I agree. Thus the first amendment. You'd think lawyers like Obama and Hillary would get that.

[DragonStryk72]

Why do people like you always have to have an excuse? Mental illness? How about someone who can't handle his own failure taking it out on others? It's not the gun's, the flag's nor the GOP's faults.

It's the fact this chump can't get off his ass and do something. That would require effort, wouldn't it?

Well, here's the thing: Everyone is screaming about it being the inanimate objects fault. And let's remember, this ain't exactly our first rodeo, now is it? And since we never bother to work out the motives, or look into how we identify these folks, your argument is basically throwing your hands up in the air and going, "Well, shit happens, and we shouldn't try to prevent it."

This "chump" did do something, he murdered a bunch of innocent people. That takes effort as well. He wasn't like, "I'm bored. Fuck it, I gonna murder a bunch of people in a church.... then Taco Bell, I think." He put effort into this, and the people investigating should be answering the "why?" question thoroughly, so that maybe, just maybe, we can stop it from happening again.

It's that or another round of, "Which inanimate object is the culprit?!" How many more, before we try actually doing something, instead of going for the lazy answers?

[Perianne]

No one thinks it was the flag's fault. They were liberals seizing an opportunity to take yet something else away from people they don't like. Obama went for guns, other liberals went for the flag. The flag lost out.

Nikki Haley should be ashamed of herself.

[Noir]

No one thinks it was the flag's fault. They were liberals seizing an opportunity to take yet something else away from people they don't like. Obama went for guns, other liberals went for the flag. The flag lost out. Nikki Haley should be ashamed of herself.

Liberals like Mitt Romney?

[revelarts]

one problem i think we may have is a knee jerk overreaction and selective hearing.

mass killings trigger a fear response and need to "do something". At 9/11 people we're ready to attack anything the gov't officials named and throw the constitution in out the window to catch and "hit back" and make us "safe". In the immediate aftermath many random muslims in the U.S. were attacked who had NOTHING to do with 9-11. And still today many people are afraid to go back to the constitutional limits and have a general fear of muslims, burkas and even completely unrelated sikhs, because of mass killing in 2001.

After every mass shooter the lefts irrational fear of guns "confirms" their belief that guns are THE problem. When tim McVeigh was caught for the OKC bombings "the militia" ALL militia became hardcore "radicals" and suspects. Earned a permanent place on the gov't terror watch lists. In Roof's case this kid, so far ,seems to fits a profile of a common racist, white supremacist, skinhead, racist good ol boy. One we may know from on the job or in the neighborhood, or a former klans man who ran for congress. Not the funny almost harmless Archie Bunker kind. So now ALL the things associated with them are "red flags" that must be controlled to keep us "safe".

But I have to say in this case.... as many people point out with islam... there are parts of the southern confederate culture that DO connect directly with VIOLENCE. Just as Mohammed was VIOLENT historically. and the birth of islam was in violence and enslavement and conquest. The same with the birth of the Confederacy was in violence and enslavement. The Flag represented violence, murder, assault, rape, slavery, jim crow, discrimination, segregation and death for Blacks, AND later even for whites friendly to minorities, to Jews and even some Catholics.

Many muslims will say and honestly live Islam as a religion of "peace". But the fact is there's a bloody history and people still today use the religion to justify mass murder and conquest. Same with the use of the rebel flag. it doesn't matter to many just what you "really" mean or DON'T mean by it. Some people will see it and fear because of it's REAL negative past and the horrific reminder a few days ago.

Most people know in their heads that "the flag" didn't cause the killing. No one's even saying that. But it has been a real PART of white supremacist racist culture since it's creation until this day. And it's not going to shake that stink.
the Knee jerk fear reaction... BAN IT... keep us "safe".

Some defending the Flag seem to have selective hearing in a reactionary defense. Assuming people think banning the flag will MAKE RACISM GO AWAY. No that's not the point of those that even want to ban the flag completely (which i disagree with 100%) But for those of us that want it gone from Gov't buildings its basically like telling gov't all employees you can't wear your klan gear to work. Wear on the street if you want to but NOT on the job. The racist is still on the Job but the gov't at least isn't ENDORSING racism by allowing gov't employees to prance around on the job in full blown klan gear.

[Jeff]

No one thinks it was the flag's fault. They were liberals seizing an opportunity to take yet something else away from people they don't like. Obama went for guns, other liberals went for the flag. The flag lost out.

Nikki Haley should be ashamed of herself.

The same people that will tell you it was the flag that did it, will tell you it is OK to burn the American flag being as it is only a piece of cloth, get over it, it's a flag not a magic spell.

This kid had been being treated for depression, personally I think all the drugs the Docs give folks along with the feeling of something being wrong with them is the problem , JMO of course but no a flag didn't do it. If we are to believe the flag is at fault then why not do away with the 2nd amendment, after all the argument there is a gun has never killed a person, people kill people.

[jimnyc]

At 9/11 people we're ready to attack anything the gov't officials named and throw the constitution in out the window to catch and "hit back" and make us "safe".

Similar to folks demanding a flag be taken down after a massacre, as if it will somehow magically stop or deter racism.

[Gunny]

Individually he has no excuse. Collectively we owe it to ourselves to discover if there is something more rooted than just the lefties screaming, "Aack, guns!!!"

I disagree. We don't owe it to anything to look for an excuse past the root issue. We refuse, as a society, to just look at what is there. We want have something to blame besides the fact that evil exists and it manifests itself in horrific acts, and some people are just evil losers.

[Gunny]

"people like you"?

:dunno:

Nope. I'm not looking to excuse him. You are.

[Perianne]

And just in case the you thought the people who always vote Democrat would be satisfied by having the Confederate flag taken down....



What do these US military bases have in common?



Fort Bragg
Fort Rucker
Fort Hood
Fort Lee
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort A.P. Hill
Fort Polk
Fort Pickett
Camp Beauregard (Operated by the Louisiana National Guard)

They are all named for Confederate generals. There’s been talk for years about whether this is appropriate, and now in wake of Charleston and the South Carolina Confederate flag, it’s coming up again.



The liberals will win because they never give up.

http://www.stripes.com/military-life/military-history/poll-should-us-military-bases-named-after-confederates-be-renamed-1.353890

[jimnyc]

Fort Bragg
Fort Rucker
Fort Hood
Fort Lee
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort A.P. Hill
Fort Polk
Fort Pickett
Camp Beauregard (Operated by the Louisiana National Guard)



Soon they will be more like:

Fort Transgender
Fort Kiss and Tell
Fort Gay Marriage
Fort Abortion
Fort No Guns
Fort No Insults
Fort Taxes

And that's what a LOT of people outright refuse to acknowledge, and which is where the flag is now, at a memorial. "We disagree with the folks in the south at that time, so now lets wipe them from memory". I guess Dukes of Hazzard is now a racist show never to be aired again. :(

[jimnyc]

http://i.imgur.com/VGNU7L9.jpg

[fj1200]

I disagree. We don't owe it to anything to look for an excuse past the root issue. We refuse, as a society, to just look at what is there. We want have something to blame besides the fact that evil exists and it manifests itself in horrific acts, and some people are just evil losers.

If we don't look closer to discover that maybe an over-medicated society leads to unforeseen consequences then we've lost to those who are just going to blame guns or a flag. It concedes defeat on the issue IMO. Who is to say that perhaps the evil is rooted in the drugs?

[Max R.]

Being a hate filled, insecure freak is not mental illness. As I said on an earlier post, the evidence seen so far via media may be depression, but since he drank a lot, seems he was self-medicating.
Maybe if doctors biopsied his brain with an ice cream scoop, they could figure out what is wrong with him.

[CSM]

Maybe if doctors biopsied his brain with an ice cream scoop, they could figure out what is wrong with him.

Good idea, especially if they start at the base of his spine.

[Gunny]

If we don't look closer to discover that maybe an over-medicated society leads to unforeseen consequences then we've lost to those who are just going to blame guns or a flag. It concedes defeat on the issue IMO. Who is to say that perhaps the evil is rooted in the drugs?

So where do we draw the line with excuses? Drinking and driving? Lord help you if you kill someone doing THAT.

The evil is rooted in the weakness that leads people to self medicate. The hypocrisy is in what we choose to call "evil". How about "accountable for your actions -- no excuses?" Nobody made this guy a loser. He did it himself, feeling sorry for himself for what he couldn't do. You don't get to start out as CEO. You wash dishes first. All these spoiled little babies we have don't want to earn what they get. They believe they're entitled to start at the top.

And idiots like this roof chump want to believe it's someone else's fault. And the lefties want to blame the gun and a flag but not the idiot who made a conscious decision to murder defenseless noncombatants. He even said he had second thoughts, but did it anyway. There's just no excuse for that.

We are ALL mentally ill. That doesn't give us an excuse to go out and murder people because we're pissed about our own misfortune.

[Perianne]

We are ALL mentally ill.

Gunny, I remember way back when I was in Nursing school. In psychology, the professor said this and I never forgot it: "The only people you think are normal are the people you don't know very well".

[Gunny]

Gunny, I remember way back when I was in Nursing school. In psychology, the professor said this and I never forgot it: "The only people you think are normal are the people you don't know very well".

You just wait, missy. I'm getting MY flag too. :laugh:

[aboutime]

So where do we draw the line with excuses? Drinking and driving? Lord help you if you kill someone doing THAT.

The evil is rooted in the weakness that leads people to self medicate. The hypocrisy is in what we choose to call "evil". How about "accountable for your actions -- no excuses?" Nobody made this guy a loser. He did it himself, feeling sorry for himself for what he couldn't do. You don't get to start out as CEO. You wash dishes first. All these spoiled little babies we have don't want to earn what they get. They believe they're entitled to start at the top.

And idiots like this roof chump want to believe it's someone else's fault. And the lefties want to blame the gun and a flag but not the idiot who made a conscious decision to murder defenseless noncombatants. He even said he had second thoughts, but did it anyway. There's just no excuse for that.

We are ALL mentally ill. That doesn't give us an excuse to go out and murder people because we're pissed about our own misfortune.



I am still convinced, despite how we blame everything on drugs, or booze today. That the real cause of the DOWNFALL of our society is....POOR, to NO EDUCATION by those who happily will steal, and demand that our Government will take care of them from cradle to casket.

[Max R.]

You just wait, missy. I'm getting MY flag too. :laugh:I have a Stars and Bars flag in my hangar, along with other historical flags, but now I'm going to order a Confederate Naval battle flag to spice up the collection:


https://acwm.org/product/tennessee-battle-flag-naval-jack
http://oi62.tinypic.com/zn3dbr.jpg

[Jeff]

Soon they will be more like:

Fort Transgender
Fort Kiss and Tell
Fort Gay Marriage
Fort Abortion
Fort No Guns
Fort No Insults
Fort Taxes

And that's what a LOT of people outright refuse to acknowledge, and which is where the flag is now, at a memorial. "We disagree with the folks in the south at that time, so now lets wipe them from memory". I guess Dukes of Hazzard is now a racist show never to be aired again. :(


Don't forget Fort Gabby...:laugh:

[fj1200]

So where do we draw the line with excuses? Drinking and driving? Lord help you if you kill someone doing THAT.

The evil is rooted in the weakness that leads people to self medicate. The hypocrisy is in what we choose to call "evil". How about "accountable for your actions -- no excuses?" Nobody made this guy a loser. He did it himself, feeling sorry for himself for what he couldn't do. You don't get to start out as CEO. You wash dishes first. All these spoiled little babies we have don't want to earn what they get. They believe they're entitled to start at the top.

And idiots like this roof chump want to believe it's someone else's fault. And the lefties want to blame the gun and a flag but not the idiot who made a conscious decision to murder defenseless noncombatants. He even said he had second thoughts, but did it anyway. There's just no excuse for that.

We are ALL mentally ill. That doesn't give us an excuse to go out and murder people because we're pissed about our own misfortune.

We are not disagreeing that he is evil and the left is obfuscating but someone is going to look closer and it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. To me it's the same as asking why do blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites; It's not because they're black, it's because liberal big-government types screwed them over by trying to help.

[Max R.]

We are not disagreeing that he is evil and the left is obfuscating but someone is going to look closer and it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. To me it's the same as asking why do blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites; It's not because they're black, it's because liberal big-government types screwed them over by trying to help.

I readily agree that the problem with inner-city high crime groups isn't genetic and that it is cultural.

OTOH, individuals can be mentally ill and there will always be a segment of humanity who are either sick mentally or physically (or both). I don't know what Roof's major malfunction is, but it's definitely not simply criminal. No sane person sits for an hour in church with a group of friendly people then jumps up, shoots 9 of them and then attempts suicide.