Army 2015 forum. Kubinka (Moscow Region)

[Balu]

Russian nuclear forces to get 40 new intercontinental missiles this year — Putin

Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia)
June 16, 14:19 UTC+3
The Intercontinental ballistic missiles will be able to overcome any missile defense systems, the president said


http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20150616/1096627.jpg
© TASS

Read also

Russia to test new over-horizon target detection radar soon — Putin (http://tass.ru/en/russia/801019)
Tests of new missile for Russia's Iskander system to be over by year-end — designer (http://tass.ru/en/russia/799890)
Russia successfully test-launches defense shield anti-missile — ministry (http://tass.ru/en/russia/799703)


KUBINKA, June 16. /TASS/. Russia’s nuclear forces will be supplemented this year with more than 40 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) capable of overcoming any missile defense systems, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at an opening ceremony of the Army 2015 international military-technical forum.
"The nuclear forces will be supplemented this year with 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles that will be capable of overcoming any, even most technically sophisticated missile defense systems," he said.

[Balu]

Situation around Russia will improve if Moscow stays strong — Putin Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia)

According to Putin, NATO is developing rapid reaction forces and enhancing its infrastructure near Russian structures, and attempts are seen to break up nuclear parity


http://cdn.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20150326/1087970.jpg
Russian President Vladimir Putin © Alexei Nikolsky/Russian presidential press service/TASS

MOSCOW, March 26. /TASS/. The situation around Russia will improve if Moscow does not bend to pressure but becomes stronger, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday at the meeting of the Federal Security Service (FSB) board.
"NATO is developing rapid reaction forces and enhancing its infrastructure near our structures, and attempts are seen to break up the nuclear parity, and the creation of the European and Asian-Pacific segment of antimissile defense is being pushed for," Putin said.

Read also
Moscow suspects US of planning to deploy nuclear-capable frontline aviation near Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia/785151)
Russia capable of responding to US missile shield deployment plans — diplomat (http://tass.ru/en/russia/785123)
Ukraine to host drills with US instructors in April (http://tass.ru/en/world/785124)
US, NATO start military drills in eastern Europe — Pentagon (http://tass.ru/en/world/784715)




He reminded that "the US unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in fact crashed the basis and the foundation of the modern system of international security."
"Principally new weapons systems of prompt global strike and conducting military operations in space are being developed," the president said.
However, Putin said that the attempts to frighten and put pressure on Moscow have failed and will not succeed. "We have always had and will have an adequate response to all the domestic and external threats to national security," he said.
"The situation cannot remain like this forever and it will change and I hope for the better, including around this country," the Russian leader said. He stressed that the situation will change for the better "not because we will constantly make concessions, bend or slobber over someone."
"It will change for the better only in case if we become stronger," Putin said.
The Russian leader said 2014 was a rather difficult year and the situation in the world became tense, including in the Middle East and other regions of the world, and the coup provoked a civil war in Ukraine.

Infographics (http://tass.ru/en/infographics/7270) http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20141208/1073993.png (http://tass.ru/en/infographics/7270) The US missile defense system and NATO European Missile Defense System (http://tass.ru/en/infographics/7270) The US has announced plans to reject the deployment of the fourth stage of the missile defense system in Europe and to refocus towards protection against potential North Korea missile attacks. Infographics by TASS



"Russia is making much effort to reconcile the sides and normalize the situation," Putin said.
For instance, Putin said Russia "has provided and continues providing shelter to hundreds of thousands of refugees /from Ukraine/ and is attempting to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe."
However, the Russian president said such Moscow’s stance and independent policy and even attempts to provide assistance to those in need, including in Ukraine, and several other regions "arouse undisguised discontent" of colleagues and partners.
"A whole range of means - from attempts of political isolation and economic pressure to large-scale information war and tools of special services - are used for the so-called containment of Russia," Putin said.

Putin thanked the FSB officials and their colleagues for their well-coordinated work last year, for irreproachable accomplishment of tasks, as well as courage and protecting security and national interests of Russia.
The Russian leader said that in 2015 the responsibility will grow and the FSB officials will be tasked with increasing the efficiency of work in all the areas of their activity.


http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/fit/746x9999_2b5bbbf4/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20141122/1071537.jpg (http://tass.ru/en/russia/761152) © Mikhail Metzel/TASS Vladimir Putin: We are strong because we are right (http://tass.ru/en/russia/761152)

[aboutime]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11678629/Russian-state-TV-reporter-fired-after-criticising-Vladimir-Putin.html

[LongTermGuy]

"Situation around Russia will improve if Moscow stays strong — Putin"

Balu...America is working on getting stronger again... also... and getting back good relations with many ....*The big mistake threw her off...

[Balu]

"Situation around Russia will improve if Moscow stays strong — Putin"

Balu...America is working on getting stronger again... also... and getting back good relations with many ....*The big mistake threw her off...

America will always be an ally of Russia. Either the North, or the South. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif (Someone from this forum wanted an example of Russian humor. Here it is.)

[Balu]

Russia opened its 'military supermarket' in the Moscow region on Tuesday, with representatives from over 70 countries expected to shop for arms and equipment.

Military representatives from over 70 countries gathered in suburban Moscow's Kubinka on Tuesday for the first ever Army-2015 military technology forum.
The exposition includes everything from ships and weapons systems to auctions for written-off military equipment available to the general public. In addition to Russia, 20 international companies are taking part in the exposition, including China, Germany, France and South Korea.
"The newly-built complex can be called a military supermarket where representatives of other countries' armed forces can look at, try out, test-drive an buy arms and military equipment," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at the opening of the exposition.
According to the head of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Tecnical Cooperation, the country's current arms export portfolio stands at $50 billion.
"Uralvagonzavod's stand is open at the Army-2015 forum. Six units of equipment on display," deputy general director of Uralvagonzavod Alexei Zharich tweeted.
One of the first contracts signed at the exposition was with the Ministry of Defense of Belarus, which decided to buy 12 Mi-8MTV-5 transport helicopters. The helicopters are armored and can be used for both transport and combat purposes.
"The forum has acquired an international status, over 70 countries are participating in it," Shoigu said.

Putin Pledges More Arms

Speaking at the opening ceremony, Russian President Vladimir Putin pledged to continue the Russian military modernization with 75 to 100 percent new equipment in some branches planned as soon as 2020.
Putin stressed that Russian weapons and equipment remain in demand on the international arms market, with a strong portfolio to guarantee shipments in the future.
"It is obvious that the efficiency of the military-industrial complex is a most important resource for the growth of the entire economy. More than that, it is the defense industry that has to raise the bar for many technological and manufacturing parameters and henceforth remain one of the engines for the development of innovations, including those for civilian and dual-use," Putin said.
Putin added that Russia began operating a new over-the-horizon early-warning radar in April, which will monitor missile launches west of Russia. The new early-warning radar is expected to undergo state trials in the next several months.

Russia Presents New Naval Power

Russian shipbuilders presented several new projects including the 'Priboi' (Surf) helicopter carrier landing ship, which is meant as a replacement for Mistral ships, the delivery of which has been stalled by France. The new carrier, the construction of which is expected to begin in 2016, will be able to carry up to eight helicopters, 500 soldiers and 40-60 vehicles.
http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/102322/88/1023228856.jpg
© Sputnik/ Viktor Guseinov

Russia Plans to Fully Upgrade Fleet of Landing Ships by 2050 (http://sputniknews.com/military/20150611/1023228425.html)

Another project, the Lider (Leader) missile destroyer presented at the exposition an be armed with 60 anti-ship cruise missiles, 128 ballistic missiles and 16 anti-submarine missiles. The new destroyer can operate autonomously for up to 90 days.Deputy head of the Saudi Arabian Navy, Admiral Ibrahim Nasir said that his country is interested in Russian ships, particularly the new Steregushchy-class corvette.
"Yes, we are interested, that's why we are here, and we are not only talking about the navy. We are interested in frigates, corvettes and guard ships. It's too early to compare prices, evaluate logistic and then we can make actual decisions," he said.
In addition to Saudi Arabia, Russia is currently in talks with India and Malaysia regarding naval equipment shipments.

Related:

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</dd><dt class="b-article__refs-item-title">Russia to Show Newest Aircraft at Upcoming Army-2015 Expo in Moscow Region (http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150615/1023366640.html)</dt></dl>



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150616/1023419798.html#ixzz3dHOxB7wk

[Drummond]

Russian nuclear forces to get 40 new intercontinental missiles this year — Putin

Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia)
June 16, 14:19 UTC+3
The Intercontinental ballistic missiles will be able to overcome any missile defense systems, the president said


http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20150616/1096627.jpg
© TASS

Read also

Russia to test new over-horizon target detection radar soon — Putin (http://tass.ru/en/russia/801019)
Tests of new missile for Russia's Iskander system to be over by year-end — designer (http://tass.ru/en/russia/799890)
Russia successfully test-launches defense shield anti-missile — ministry (http://tass.ru/en/russia/799703)


KUBINKA, June 16. /TASS/. Russia’s nuclear forces will be supplemented this year with more than 40 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) capable of overcoming any missile defense systems, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at an opening ceremony of the Army 2015 international military-technical forum.
"The nuclear forces will be supplemented this year with 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles that will be capable of overcoming any, even most technically sophisticated missile defense systems," he said.

Thank you, Balu, for opening up this particular thread. I caught this news on the BBC, and was toying with the idea of opening one on this subject, though a condemnatory one.

Interestingly, though, you give the impression of being proud of what Russia is doing.

I say this: do you not grasp, Balu, that such a move from Russia only worsens the way the wider world will view it ??

The more general point to make is that if the world needs anything, it's FEWER such missiles.

The more specific point is that Russia's international activities, with particular reference to the Crimea and eastern Ukraine, are fueling the unmistakeable message of Russia proving itself to be a belligerent power on the world stage. THIS LATEST DEVELOPMENT HARDLY HELPS.

If Putin WANTS Russia to become a pariah State, then his recent decisions and actions aid such a goal. Though, why he'd inflict that association on to his country's citizens, giving the world even more justification for sanctions, is frankly beyond me.

Unless Putin's a nutter, that is ....

[Balu]

Thank you, Balu, for opening up this particular thread. I caught this news on the BBC, and was toying with the idea of opening one on this subject, though a condemnatory one.

Interestingly, though, you give the impression of being proud of what Russia is doing. (1)

I say this: do you not grasp, Balu, that such a move from Russia only worsens the way the wider world will view it ??

The more general point to make is that if the world needs anything, it's FEWER such missiles. (2)

The more specific point is that Russia's international activities, with particular reference to the Crimea and eastern Ukraine, (3) are fueling the unmistakeable message of Russia proving itself to be a belligerent power on the world stage. THIS LATEST DEVELOPMENT HARDLY HELPS.


If Putin WANTS Russia to become a pariah State (4), then his recent decisions and actions aid such a goal. Though, why he'd inflict that association on to his country's citizens, giving the world even more justification for sanctions, is frankly beyond me.

Unless Putin's a nutter, that is ....

1. Sure I am proud of what Russia is doing. OUR History proved that - "Si visраеет, para bellum", "Who does not want to feed his own army will feed the army of strangers."
2. Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya didn't have them, and what they enjoyed?
3. Crimea is a part of Russia. This is the will of the folks of Crimean Republic. It is in strict accordance with International Law and Helsinki Agreement about post-war borders. In the Eastern Ukraine Ukrainians have THEIR OWN CIVIL WAR after the USA and EU organized a military coup in Ukraine.
4. Nowadays it looks like the USA with its doggery are becoming PARIAHS. The whole World is sick and tired of what you are doing, of your interference anywhere you want. You brought "democracy" to Libya? - You got the result.

http://earth-chronicles.ru/Con_News11/47-9-big.jpg

BTW the murdering of an Ambassador is classical Сasus Belli. And where were you, Americans?

[tailfins]

1. Sure I am proud of what Russia is doing. OUR History proved that - "Si visраеет, para bellum", "Who does not want to feed his own army will feed the army of strangers."
2. Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya didn't have them, and what they enjoyed?
3. Crimea is a part of Russia. This is the will of the folks of Crimean Republic. It is in strict accordance with International Law and Helsinki Agreement about post-war borders. In the Eastern Ukraine Ukrainians have THEIR OWN CIVIL WAR after the USA and EU organized a military coup in Ukraine.
4. Nowadays it looks like the USA with its doggery are becoming PARIAHS. The whole World is sick and tired of what you are doing, of your interference anywhere you want. You brought "democracy" to Libya? - You got the result.

http://earth-chronicles.ru/Con_News11/47-9-big.jpg

BTW the murdering of an Ambassador is classical Сasus Belli. And where were you, Americans?

You can always judge what a country is like by going there yourself. Being "for Russia" is one thing. Being "against America" will only bring you ill will. What will you have accomplished if you do that? Opinions are one thing, actions are another. For example in Cuba, they have this thing called "Committee for the Defense of the Revolution" (CDR). The CDR block captain has a quota of "violations against the state" to meet. If he his below his quota, he can falsely accuse people to keep his job. A CDR "leader" is one of the lowest life forms in my book, knowingly having innocent people sent to prison. Does Russia have anything that resembles the Cuban CDR?

[Balu]

You can always judge what a country is like by going there yourself. Being "for Russia" is one thing. Being "against America" will only bring you ill will. What will you have accomplished if you do that?
Read my signature. I DO REMEMBER plan of Allen Dallas, Gene Sharp etc.
I also know this picture:

Russia wants to fight. Have a look how close these Russians placed their country to our bases.

http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/0/9/4241908.jpg

And because of this the Americans must be aware that the following variant is also possible. (God forbid!)

http://topru.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/W98ShR863fQ.jpg

[Drummond]

1. Sure I am proud of what Russia is doing. OUR History proved that - "Si visраеет, para bellum", "Who does not want to feed his own army will feed the army of strangers."

Try applying that to Hitler's military machine. Then reflect upon how UNacceptable a view it can be.

We see Putin, if I may put this bluntly, as acting in a Hitleresque fashion. As Hitler annexed the Sudetenland, so Putin annexed the Crimea. Putin's now interfering in eastern Ukraine. Some British military experts expect him to move against other powers.


2. Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya didn't have them, and what they enjoyed?

Iraq had an army, but it was Saddam's army. In 2003, they all ran away when challenged by a superior force.

Yugoslavia and Libya had geopolitical issues specific to their localities. And the worth of an army is proportional to the nature of the leadership it gets.

Putin, Hitler, are figures who teach us this.


3. Crimea is a part of Russia. This is the will of the folks of Crimean Republic. It is in strict accordance with International Law

If you believe this, you've been misled.

http://www.cfr.org/ukraine/why-crimean-referendum-illegitimate/p32594


Voters in Ukraine's republic of Crimea opted to join Russia in a referendum Moscow called the starting point for determining the future of the peninsula. CFR Adjunct Senior Fellow John Bellinger, former legal adviser for the U.S. State Department, said the March 16 vote violates both the Ukrainian constitution and general principles of international law, which respect the territorial integrity of states. Despite concerns about the vote and Russia's deployment of forces in Crimea, he said, the international community has limited options to overturn the result. But Bellinger added: "Russia may find that its support for Crimea's independence might trigger referenda or secession movements that it opposes, such as in Chechnya."

The Obama administration and most European governments argue that the referendum violates both the Ukrainian constitution and international law. The Ukrainian constitution requires that any changes to the territory of Ukraine be approved by a referendum of all of the Ukrainian people. The requirement is consistent with general principles of international law, which respects the territorial integrity of states and does not recognize a right of secession by a group or region in a country unless the group or region has been denied a right to "internal self determination" (i.e., its right to pursue its own political, economic, social, and cultural development) by the central government or has been subject to grave human rights violations by the central government. These factors, which could give rise to a right of remedial secession under international law, are not present in Crimea.

Interesting, eh ? What if you find your action of 'granting' Crimea independence from Ukraine, gets to be copied by regions such as Chechnya ?

And ... why ever not ? What you start, you should accept consequences for !


4. Nowadays it looks like the USA with its doggery are becoming PARIAHS. The whole World is sick and tired of what you are doing, of your interference anywhere you want.

Such as, actions taken in the pursuance of the War on Terror ? Would the world have thanked America for letting maverick regimes, and Failed States, do exactly as they chose, without any likelihood of consequences coming their way ?

Perhaps you are only anti-terrorist when it's in Russia's specific interests to be ?

[Drummond]

Read my signature. I DO REMEMBER plan of Allen Dallas, Gene Sharp etc.
I also know this picture:

Russia wants to fight. Have a look how close these Russians placed their country to our bases.

http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/0/9/4241908.jpg

And because of this the Americans must be aware that the following variant is also possible. (God forbid!)

http://topru.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/W98ShR863fQ.jpg

Does Russia want World War 3, Balu ?

NATO was always a defensive alliance. To defend against the Warsaw Pact, and the massive threat the USSR posed to world peace.

Now, we see Putin going in for land-grabs, fomenting rebellions, moving military forces yet denying he's doing so.

Very evidently, Balu, NATO cannot afford to weaken in the face of continuing aggression.

You criticise America's actions on the world stage. But remember .. Hungary, 1956. Czechoslovakia, 1968. Afghanistan - which, then, wasn't even a part of the USSR, in 1980. NONE of those aggressions had anything to do with anything other than sheer dictatorial power against victimised populations.

And now we've a new round of aggressions.

With Putin unwilling to learn from history, is he condemning us all to repeat it ? Because if so, consider:

Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962.

In case your history teaches otherwise ... reflect on the fact that we came VERY close to a nuclear holocaust from that situation.

[Balu]

Try applying that to Hitler's military machine. Then reflect upon how UNacceptable a view it can be.

We see Putin, if I may put this bluntly, as acting in a Hitleresque fashion. As Hitler annexed the Sudetenland, so Putin annexed the Crimea. Putin's now interfering in eastern Ukraine. Some British military experts expect him to move against other powers.

You'd better think over HOW Federal Republic of Germany ANNEXED DDR - a member of the UN with no referendums.
Then, I would not tell about Kosovo and the decision of UN Court in this relation. I would only remind you that the Crimean Republic conducted their referendum AFTER US an EU organized a military coup in UKRAINE to bring to power their puppets and THAT time in UKRAINE there were no legislative authorities - no President, no Parliament, no Constitution Court, no General Prosecutor's Office. That time impostors captured State Power and they were admitted by US and EU.
The was NO invasion of Russian Regular Army to Crimea.
So, see the difference.

[Balu]

Does Russia want World War 3, Balu ?

NATO was always a defensive alliance. To defend against the Warsaw Pact, and the massive threat the USSR posed to world peace.

Now, we see Putin going in for land-grabs, fomenting rebellions, moving military forces yet denying he's doing so.

Very evidently, Balu, NATO cannot afford to weaken in the face of continuing aggression.

You criticise America's actions on the world stage. But remember .. Hungary, 1956. Czechoslovakia, 1968. Afghanistan - which, then, wasn't even a part of the USSR, in 1980. NONE of those aggressions had anything to do with anything other than sheer dictatorial power against victimised populations.

And now we've a new round of aggressions.

With Putin unwilling to learn from history, is he condemning us all to repeat it ? Because if so, consider:

Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962.

In case your history teaches otherwise ... reflect on the fact that we came VERY close to a nuclear holocaust from that situation.

The III World War has already been started. For the USA tyis is THE ONLY chance to keep your dollar as a world currency. Its strange that you didn't notice it.
For your kind information - Warsaw Agreement was a RECIPROCAL step AFTER YOU ORGANIZED NATO.
And do not make my spaniel laughing speaking that NATO was always a defensive alliance. No need.
AS to 1962 I would remind you that we PLACED our nuclear weapons in Cuba AFTER the USA had a nerve to deploy their Pershings in Turkey. I have a good memory, Sir. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

[Drummond]

You'd better think over HOW Federal Republic of Germany ANNEXED DDR - a member of the UN with no referendums.

Perhaps you've forgotten how the DDR came about ?

It came about because the USSR annexed that territory, FROM Germany.

What followed, after the collapse of the Berlin Wall (and the collapse of the Soviet Union) was merely a righting of a former wrong, with Germany becoming a whole country once more. With the German capital free to relocate from Bonn to its previous location, in Berlin.


I would only remind you that the Crimean Republic conducted their referendum AFTER US an EU organized a military coup in UKRAINE to bring to power their puppets and THAT time in UKRAINE there were no legislative authorities - no President, no Parliament, no Constitution Court, no General Prosecutor's Office. That time impostors captured State Power and they were admitted by US and EU.

Were they 'imposters', in your eyes, because they weren't pre-sanctioned by Russia ?

Why not do what you did in Afghanistan, and install a puppet regime ?

OR, does Ukraine labour under the delusion THAT IT HAS A RIGHT TO RUN ITS OWN AFFAIRS ?

That's the trouble, you see, right there. The EU and America feel that Ukraine has a right to be a free nation. Putin hates that, though, with a passion. So .. since he lacks the Soviet Empire to fall back on, and the 'glory' days of tanks rumbling into city suburbs, such as in Czechoslovakia .. these days, it's done a bit more stealthily. A 'referendum' lacking international recognition, or legality is held. Rebels are aided by the Russian military, instead of far more transparently-obvious military intervention.

And no sanctions will deter Putin's quest for power. Certainly, no moral decency allows him to concede the right of total self-determination of a nation he instead feels he can exert his will over.

So it is that Crimea falls under the influence of 'Mother Russia'. So it is that people of eastern Ukraine endure warfare that they didn't ask for.

And still, the lessons of history go unheeded.

[LongTermGuy]

Perhaps you've forgotten how the DDR came about ?

It came about because the USSR annexed that territory, FROM Germany.

What followed, after the collapse of the Berlin Wall (and the collapse of the Soviet Union) was merely a righting of a former wrong, with Germany becoming a whole country once more. With the German capital free to relocate from Bonn to its previous location, in Berlin.



Were they 'imposters', in your eyes, because they weren't pre-sanctioned by Russia ?

Why not do what you did in Afghanistan, and install a puppet regime ?

OR, does Ukraine labour under the delusion THAT IT HAS A RIGHT TO RUN ITS OWN AFFAIRS ?

That's the trouble, you see, right there. The EU and America feel that Ukraine has a right to be a free nation. Putin hates that, though, with a passion. So .. since he lacks the Soviet Empire to fall back on, and the 'glory' days of tanks rumbling into city suburbs, such as in Czechoslovakia .. these days, it's done a bit more stealthily. A 'referendum' lacking international recognition, or legality is held. Rebels are aided by the Russian military, instead of far more transparently-obvious military intervention.

And no sanctions will deter Putin's quest for power. Certainly, no moral decency allows him to concede the right of total self-determination of a nation he instead feels he can exert his will over.

So it is that Crimea falls under the influence of 'Mother Russia'. So it is that people of eastern Ukraine endure warfare that they didn't ask for.

And still, the lessons of history go unheeded.


Hey Drummond...what time is it at your location if I may ask...?

12:43 am for me...

[Drummond]

The III World War has already been started.

Really ? Well, this is the first I've heard of it. I thought that Putin was only PREPARING for an outbreak of one ?

Do I read this correctly, Balu ? Do you actually have an ENTHUSIASM for such a war ?

How disturbing.


For the USA tyis is THE ONLY chance to keep your dollar as a world currency. Its strange that you didn't notice it.

I didn't notice it, because it's fiction. A bizarre fiction at that.


For your kind information - Warsaw Agreement was a RECIPROCAL step AFTER YOU ORGANIZED NATO.

... none of which alters the truth of NATO's nature, its reason for being. It's a DEFENSIVE alliance, to ward off threats. It was created to be so. It always has been that. It continues with the same overall purpose.

The Soviet Union existed long before NATO. Its potential for aggression, ditto. The Warsaw Pact was simply a manifestation of that threat made into a coherent force.


And do not make my spaniel laughing speaking that NATO was always a defensive alliance. No need.I'm afraid I won't be drawn into an argument over whether your spaniel is a fantasist.

Perhaps Wikipedia lies ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO


The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO /ˈneɪtoʊ/; French: Organisation du traité de l'Atlantique Nord; OTAN), also called the North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance based on the North Atlantic Treaty which was signed on 4 April 1949. The organization constitutes a system of collective defence whereby its member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party.
AS to 1962 I would remind you that we PLACED our nuclear weapons in Cuba AFTER the USA had a nerve to deploy their Pershings in Turkey. I have a good memory, Sir. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dirol.gif

The armaments in Turkey were obsolescent, I believe. Nonetheless ... Cuban missiles were so close to the American mainland that their only strategic usefulness was to be deployed as part of a sneak attack. The whole point of their placement was to give the United States zero useful warning time after their launching.

Therefore, those missiles on Cuban soil were purely there as an aggressive action. One that both sides had to realise couldn't be reasonably tolerated (.. unless the Soviet leadership required Americans to have a death wish ?).

Russian aggression has long since been a great danger to world security. As it was during the Warsaw Pact days, so it is today.

Putin can give up his latter-day dreams of empire. If he chooses to. Or, he can carry on destabilising the world, in true Russian tradition ....

[Drummond]

Hey Drummond...what time is it at your location if I may ask...?

12:43 am for me...

At time of typing ... just after 6AM.

I plan to go to bed soon .. !!!!!

[In case you didn't know ... I'm at retirement age, so I'm not forced to keep regular working hours. Gives me extra latitude, these days, for posting here. Although that said, I'm feeling rather weary right now.]

[LongTermGuy]

At time of typing ... just after 6AM.

I plan to go to bed soon .. !!!!!

[In case you didn't know ... I'm at retirement age, so I'm not forced to keep regular working hours. Gives me extra latitude, these days, for posting here. Although that said, I'm feeling rather weary right now.]



Thanks good night buddy!!!:cool:

[Drummond]

Thanks good night buddy!!!:cool:

You too, my friend. Sweet dreams !

[Balu]

Perhaps you've forgotten how the DDR came about ?

It came about because the USSR annexed that territory, FROM Germany.



Really? Ether me, or you don't know the meaning of the verb to ANNEX.
And, BTW, these are the US troops, which still remain in Germany. (British took their troops back) And this is the USA which keep the Golden Stock of Germany, REJECTING to return it back. It is the USA where the Сhancellor MUST pay a visit to get the instructions.
The question is - How long Germany will stand the American occupation and be in a status of your banana republic?

[Voted4Reagan]

Really? Ether me, or you don't know the meaning of the verb to ANNEX.
And, BTW, these are the US troops, which still remain in Germany. (British took their troops back) And this is the USA which keep the Golden Stock of Germany, REJECTING to return it back. It is the USA where the Сhancellor MUST pay a visit to get the instructions.
The question is - How long Germany will stand the American occupation and be in a status of your banana republic?

Here is a hint...

The Germans want us there for one reason.... Because Russia is just to the East.

if you want we can go back to the Cold War days.... It will end the same... With Russia broke and unable to keep up.

[tailfins]

America will always be an ally of Russia. Either the North, or the South. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif (Someone from this forum wanted an example of Russian humor. Here it is.)

I get it. Brazilians sometimes remind me that they are already "Americans" and shouldn't have to apply for a visa to enter America. Here's a famous song about an "American".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkxFhFRFDA

[Balu]

Putin rather sees threat in US missile defense system than weapons deployment in Europe

Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia)
June 16, 21:36 UTC+3
The Russian president noted that if someone threatens Russia’s territory, it is to aim its weapons where the threat is coming from



http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20150616/1096711.jpg

© EPA/ROBERT GHEMENT

NOVO-OGARYOVO, June 16. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday he sees no real threat in the West’s statements about possible deployment of weapons in Europe, since the missile defense system deployment is a bigger threat.
"I’d refrain from whipping up emotions. Of course, we will analyze everything but so far I see nothing that might prompt us to do that [take response measures]," he told a news conference. "It’s rather all about political signals to Russia, in its relations with the European Union."
Read also


Analysts: US forces Russia to take military, technical steps to forestall aggression (http://tass.ru/en/opinions/801082)
US plans of deploying heavy weapons close to Russian borders will push Moscow for response (http://tass.ru/en/opinions/800802)
Military analysts: West embarks on dangerous path of ruining nuclear deterrence (http://tass.ru/en/opinions/799791)




"We are more worried over the deployment of the missile defence system," he said.
Putin said Russia has all the grounds to take response measures. "If anyone threatens Russia’s territory, it must aim its weapons at those countries the threat is coming from," he said. "It is NATO that is approaching our borders, not vice versa."
At the same time, the Russian president stressed that Russia posed no threat to anyone, including Finland. "The best guarantee of Finland’s security is its neutral status," Putin said.
Shortly after reports about Washington’s plans for deploying 1,200 tanks, armored personnel carriers and other military vehicles organic to a force of 5,000 officers and men the United States on Monday declared it had plans for redeploying to Europe a contingent of fifth generation F-22 Raptor fighter jets. Speaking at the 51th international aerospace show at Le Bourget the Secretary of the US Air Force, Deborah Lee James, said that was necessary to show muscle to Russia. Earlier, the United States stepped up the air patrolling of the Baltic Sea and deployed B-2 and B-52 bombers in Britain.

[Voted4Reagan]

Putin rather sees threat in US missile defense system than weapons deployment in Europe

Russia (http://tass.ru/en/russia)
June 16, 21:36 UTC+3
The Russian president noted that if someone threatens Russia’s territory, it is to aim its weapons where the threat is coming from





The last person to invade Russia was Hitler.... before that it was Napoleon.

Nobody is going to invade Russia.

This is posturing by Putin to pump up Russian Nationalism and justify his ventures into the Crimea and the Ukraine.

Russia has just 930 modern T-90 MBT's

She has close to 15000 obsolete T-80 and T-72 MBT's. These have been obsolete for 25 years.

If Russia rolls that mess of Obsolete metal in to a NATO Allied country they will be carved up like the Iraqis were in Desert Storm.

Likewise the United States will not initiate a strike into Russia because it serves nothing. We dont want Russia. It can't be taken with 100,000 tanks. To conjecture that we would is just Russian Propaganda to pump up the egos of the Nationalists in the Kremlin.

Your whole post is a puff piece...

If the Russians want to bring back the Cold War...Fine. We'll spend you into the ground again and this time it will totally collapse an already weak economy and ostracize Russia on the World Stage.

Like all the other Communist block countries of the Cold War your Military has grown weak over the last 30 years. Your navy is rusting in Murmansk Harbor and in Vladivostok. Your tanks are 40 year old designs and your biggest bomber is a Turbo prop dating back to WWII/Korea. Your Submarines are easily tracked by the NATO SOSUS net and you cant squeeze a shot of Vodka through the GIUK Gap without us knowing.

Your Carriers are Second rate, Cruiser and destroyer numbers are down and you've had to sell equipment to the Chinese to make your payments in other areas.

So what exactly are we supposed to be afraid of BALU? A Tin pot want to be dictator like Putin ?

Hell... Stalin and Khrushchev were a hell of a lot more intimidating.

Give up the Propaganda... The West isnt going to invade... and Mother Russia isn't going to either.

[Balu]

It is in Russian, but everything is clear.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zMEYCzJxAQ

[Voted4Reagan]

Balu... we don't speak Russian....

Post your crap in ENGLISH... it is the language of the board..

[Balu]

The last person to invade Russia was Hitler.... before that it was Napoleon.

Nobody is going to invade Russia...

You make me laughing. I saw MYSELF the classified NATO docs. So, no need, Sir. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Balu]

Balu... we don't speak Russian....

Post your crap in ENGLISH... it is the language of the board..

Treat it as silent movie. Everything is clear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Voted4Reagan]

Treat it as silent movie. Everything is clear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

no it isn't....

English is the language of the board... present your arguments and sources in it...

Silent movies went out of fashion 85 years ago...

So...ENGLISH... or dont bother.

[Balu]

no it isn't....

English is the language of the board... present your arguments and sources in it...

Silent movies went out of fashion 85 years ago...

So...ENGLISH... or dont bother.

I would advise you to feel yourself old-fashioned, switch off the sound and enjoy only picture like this. Words there mean almost nothing.
This is DEMONSTRATION of non-contact fighting of Russian Special Forces of the General Intelligence Department of the Ministry of Defense.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCu8qj31UJk

[Balu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv8wmBiCNvg

[NightTrain]

Most of what you're posting is pure propaganda for the Russian masses, Balu. That's cool.

Russian peasants fed media soundbites are going to believe what Putin tells them through your State-Owned media outlets, but don't expect skeptical Americans buying into it. You'll find that any state-owned media outlet raises red flags with thinking Americans and Europeans because we know our own governments can and will lie to us. Happens all the time, and you're incredibly naive if you think it doesn't.

If we don't trust our own government to tell us the truth, what makes you think we're going to believe Putin's propaganda machine?

I see you posting pieces in this thread showing how our missile defense systems won't perform - but I can tell you that your little map there is incomplete just for Alaska. There are quite a few other sites involved that your map completely misses right here where I live - and those are the components that I, as a civilian, know about. Most of the network is Top Secret and isn't discussed openly. I suspect that your piece was written for your average Russian peasant who doesn't know any better because he gets the "news" that Putin wants him to have. If your site can't even complete the map for Alaska, it's highly unlikely it's accurate for anywhere else.

I see you continually posting about how great the Russian military is and how terrible America is - what's that all about? If you enjoy angering Americans and you're looking for a fight, why do you have Gunny ignored? He's a Marine that has ready answers for you from decades of service, and with your broadly antagonizing posts I would think you'd relish a good fiery argument about which country is best and what military hardware is superior.

What I'm trying to say is your posts are confusing. On one hand you are looking to piss off Americans to get us to fight, and on the other hand when a Marine steps up to the plate that knows what he's talking about, you put him on ignore.

I can certainly step up and show you how technologically superior we are in every military capacity compared to Russia and have the ability to outspend you by trillions, as VFR pointed out. Is that what you're looking for?

Do you want to compare weapons systems to determine who is the better country? Or do you want to compare which country secretly meddled more in other countries' affairs? Or do you want to compare economies to determine which country is better?

I get the feeling that you're an old-school communist that longs for the glory days of the Cold War. I've got a news flash for you, Ivan : It's over - you lost and we won.

[Gunny]

Most of what you're posting is pure propaganda for the Russian masses, Balu. That's cool.

Russian peasants fed media soundbites are going to believe what Putin tells them through your State-Owned media outlets, but don't expect skeptical Americans buying into it. You'll find that any state-owned media outlet raises red flags with thinking Americans and Europeans because we know our own governments can and will lie to us. Happens all the time, and you're incredibly naive if you think it doesn't.

If we don't trust our own government to tell us the truth, what makes you think we're going to believe Putin's propaganda machine?

I see you posting pieces in this thread showing how our missile defense systems won't perform - but I can tell you that your little map there is incomplete just for Alaska. There are quite a few other sites involved that your map completely misses right here where I live - and those are the components that I, as a civilian, know about. Most of the network is Top Secret and isn't discussed openly. I suspect that your piece was written for your average Russian peasant who doesn't know any better because he gets the "news" that Putin wants him to have. If your site can't even complete the map for Alaska, it's highly unlikely it's accurate for anywhere else.

I see you continually posting about how great the Russian military is and how terrible America is - what's that all about? If you enjoy angering Americans and you're looking for a fight, why do you have Gunny ignored? He's a Marine that has ready answers for you from decades of service, and with your broadly antagonizing posts I would think you'd relish a good fiery argument about which country is best and what military hardware is superior.

What I'm trying to say is your posts are confusing. On one hand you are looking to piss off Americans to get us to fight, and on the other hand when a Marine steps up to the plate that knows what he's talking about, you put him on ignore.

I can certainly step up and show you how technologically superior we are in every military capacity compared to Russia and have the ability to outspend you by trillions, as VFR pointed out. Is that what you're looking for?

Do you want to compare weapons systems to determine who is the better country? Or do you want to compare which country secretly meddled more in other countries' affairs? Or do you want to compare economies to determine which country is better?

I get the feeling that you're an old-school communist that longs for the glory days of the Cold War. I've got a news flash for you, Ivan : It's over - you lost and we won.

The fact is, Putin is tapped out. He's at the end of his leash. All we need is a conservative President to smack him back into place. We have the money and resources. Putin has neither.

[NightTrain]

The fact is, Putin is tapped out. He's at the end of his leash. All we need is a conservative President to smack him back into place. We have the money and resources. Putin has neither.

Agreed.

Still, I have to hand it to Putin - he knew nothing serious would happen with grabbing Crimea and part of Ukraine with our useless President that we have.

But, yeah... all those shenanigans will come to an abrupt stop when we get a real President back in the saddle.

[Gunny]

Agreed.

Still, I have to hand it to Putin - he knew nothing serious would happen with grabbing Crimea and part of Ukraine with our useless President that we have.

But, yeah... all those shenanigans will come to an abrupt stop when we get a real President back in the saddle.

I don't hand anything to Putin. Obama's sloppy seconds to whoever's next.

[Balu]

Most of what you're posting is pure propaganda for the Russian masses, Balu. That's cool.

Russian peasants fed media soundbites are going to believe what Putin tells them through your State-Owned media outlets, but don't expect skeptical Americans buying into it. You'll find that any state-owned media outlet raises red flags with thinking Americans and Europeans because we know our own governments can and will lie to us. Happens all the time, and you're incredibly naive if you think it doesn't.

If we don't trust our own government to tell us the truth, what makes you think we're going to believe Putin's propaganda machine?

I see you posting pieces in this thread showing how our missile defense systems won't perform - but I can tell you that your little map there is incomplete just for Alaska. There are quite a few other sites involved that your map completely misses right here where I live - and those are the components that I, as a civilian, know about. Most of the network is Top Secret and isn't discussed openly. I suspect that your piece was written for your average Russian peasant who doesn't know any better because he gets the "news" that Putin wants him to have. If your site can't even complete the map for Alaska, it's highly unlikely it's accurate for anywhere else.

I see you continually posting about how great the Russian military is and how terrible America is - what's that all about? If you enjoy angering Americans and you're looking for a fight, why do you have Gunny ignored? He's a Marine that has ready answers for you from decades of service, and with your broadly antagonizing posts I would think you'd relish a good fiery argument about which country is best and what military hardware is superior.

What I'm trying to say is your posts are confusing. On one hand you are looking to piss off Americans to get us to fight, and on the other hand when a Marine steps up to the plate that knows what he's talking about, you put him on ignore.

I can certainly step up and show you how technologically superior we are in every military capacity compared to Russia and have the ability to outspend you by trillions, as VFR pointed out. Is that what you're looking for?

Do you want to compare weapons systems to determine who is the better country? Or do you want to compare which country secretly meddled more in other countries' affairs? Or do you want to compare economies to determine which country is better?

I get the feeling that you're an old-school communist that longs for the glory days of the Cold War. I've got a news flash for you, Ivan : It's over - you lost and we won.
First - Thank you for your post.
Then, as to Gunny, I NEVER argue with Sergs. I've already said, that in terms of US insignia I would have had "chickens" on my shoulder straps. I am a retired Senior Officer, who worked in many countries in Soviet times and later. So, his "knowledge" is of no use and of nor interest for me. I know much more than he can imaging. Besides, he is rude and bad-mannered person.
As to Alaska etc. I did not give you the detailed maps. I only gave reference points enough to draw a picture.
And finally, I do not want to tease or convince anybody here. I nave no aim to rebuild you. What I am speaking about may be named as - "Looking from Moscow" - paraphrase of the famous BBC - "Looking from London". And this is naive to think that our points of view will coincide. So, you may feel yourself a winner if it pleases you. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Gunny]

First - Thank you for your post.
Then, as to Gunny, I NEVER argue with Sergs. I've already said, that in terms of US insignia I would have had "chickens" on my shoulder straps. I am a retired Senor Officer, who worked in many countries in Soviet times and later. So, his "knowledge" is of no use and of nor interest for me. I know much more than he can imaging. Besides, he is rude and bad-mannered person.
As to Alaska etc. I did not give you the detailed maps. I only gave reference points enough to draw a picture.
And finally, I do not want to tease or convince anybody here. I nave no aim to rebuild you. What I am speaking about may be named as - "Looking from Moscow" - paraphrase of the famous BBC - "Looking from London". And this is naive to think that our points of view will coincide. So, you may feel yourself a winner if it pleases you. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

So in other words you never did your own fighting? That figures. They must have a different standard for "chicken straps" where you are than they do here. Because you are just lame. I'd go against YOU in combat ANYTIME, chicken straps. Just bring a good supply of body bags, bubba. You're going to need them.

The fact is, you and your hero are fucked. Enjoy your year and a half with the dancing chicken. It's ALL you got left.

[Gunny]

You flipped the wrong switch, bitch. I'll take a platoon of Marines against a battalion of your bull-shit and come back riding in YOUR chicken strap vehicle with YOUR colors on the dashboard and you duct taped up in the trunk.

You're not smart enough to be a private around these parts, "Mr Chicken" so go blow yourself. Better yet, go blow that stupid thug you worship. You want to talk shit to me? I may be a "lowly" GySgt, but you only have me on ignore because you can't handle the truth.

I'll blow your ass out of the water so fast the water will and before you ever do.

Come get some.

[Voted4Reagan]

Lets compare:

Nimitz Class Carrier VS Kremlin Class Carrier


<tbody>
Name:
Nimitz-class aircraft carrier


Builders:
Newport News Shipbuilding Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_News_Shipbuilding_Company)


Operators:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy)


Preceded by:
Kitty Hawk class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Hawk-class_aircraft_carrier) and
Enterprise class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise-class_aircraft_carrier)


Succeeded by:
Gerald R. Ford class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier)


Subclasses:
Theodore Roosevelt class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#Design_differences_within_t he_class) and
Ronald Reagan class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#Design_differences_within_t he_class)


Cost:
Approximately 4.5 Billion USD


In commission:
3 May 1975


Planned:
10


Completed:
10


Active:
10


Lost:
0


Retired:
0


General characteristics


Type:
Aircraft carrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier)


Displacement:
100,000 to 104,600 long tons (101,600–106,300 t)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Polmar-1)


Length:
Overall: 1,092 feet (332.8 m)
Waterline: 1,040 feet (317.0 m)


Beam:
Overall: 252 ft (76.8 m)
Waterline: 134 ft (40.8 m)


Draft:
Maximum navigational: 37 ft (11.3 m)
Limit: 41 ft (12.5 m)


Propulsion:
2 × Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Company) A4W nuclear reactors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A4W_reactor)
4 × steam turbines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine)
4 × shafts
260,000 shp (194 MW)


Speed:
30+ knots (56+ km/h; 35+ mph)


Range:
Unlimited distance; 20-25 years


Complement:
Ship's company: 3,200
Air wing: 2,480


Crew:
Up to 5,000+


Sensors and
processing systems:
AN/SPS-48E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-48) 3-D air search radar
AN/SPS-49(V)5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-49) 2-D air search radar
AN/SPQ-9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPQ-9)B target acquisition radar
AN/SPN-46 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPN-46) air traffic control radars
AN/SPN-43C (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AN/SPN-43&action=edit&redlink=1) air traffic control radar
AN/SPN-41 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AN/SPN-41&action=edit&redlink=1) landing aid radars
4 × Mk 91 NSSM guidance systems
4 × Mk 95 radars


Electronic warfare
and decoys:
SLQ-32A(V)4 Countermeasures suite
SLQ-25A Nixie torpedo countermeasures


Armament:


16–24 × RIM-7 Sea Sparrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow) or NATO Sea Sparrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow) missiles
3 or 4 × Phalanx CIWSs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS) or RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile)




Armor:
2.5 in (64 mm) Kevlar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar) over vital spaces[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Fontenoy-2)


Aircraft carried:
85–90 fixed wing and helicopters[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ship_encyclopedia-3)

</tbody>


Kusnetsov Class Carrier (Russia)


<tbody>
Class and type:
Heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_cruiser)


Displacement:


43,000-tonnes, light[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)
53,000 - 55,200-tonnes, standard[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ReferenceA-3)
58,600 - 67,500-tonnes, max[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)




Length:
305 m (1,001 ft)


Beam:
72 m (236 ft)


Draught:
11 m (36 ft)


Propulsion:
Steam turbines 80,000 shp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#Shaft_horsepower)(60,000 kW)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ReferenceA-3)
200,000 shp (150,000 kW)


Speed:
29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph)


Range:
8,500 nmi (15,700 km; 9,800 mi) @ 18 kn (33 km/h; 21 mph) 3,800 nmi (7,000 km; 4,400 mi) @ 29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph)


Complement:
1,500


Armament:
12 P-700 Granit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit) (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) anti-ship missiles
192 3K95 Kinzhal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Missile_System#3K95_Kinzhal) (SA-N-9 Gauntlet) SAMs
8 Kashtan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashtan_CIWS) CIWS mounts
6 AK-630 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630) AA guns
1 UDAV-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udav-1_anti-submarine_system) ASW rocket launcher


Aircraft carried:
30-40

18-32 × fixed wing aircraft
17-24 × helicopters




Aviation facilities:
Angled arrested landing flight deck
Bow ski jump

</tbody>


1/2 the ship... 1/2 the aircraft... only ONE in existence.


Lets keep comparing hardware.... The Nimitz wins hand down...

Next up..... Submarines!!

[Gunny]

Lets compare:

Nimitz Class Carrier VS Kremlin Class Carrier


<tbody>
Name:
Nimitz-class aircraft carrier


Builders:
Newport News Shipbuilding Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_News_Shipbuilding_Company)


Operators:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy)


Preceded by:
Kitty Hawk class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Hawk-class_aircraft_carrier) and
Enterprise class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise-class_aircraft_carrier)


Succeeded by:
Gerald R. Ford class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier)


Subclasses:
Theodore Roosevelt class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#Design_differences_within_t he_class) and
Ronald Reagan class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#Design_differences_within_t he_class)


Cost:
Approximately 4.5 Billion USD


In commission:
3 May 1975


Planned:
10


Completed:
10


Active:
10


Lost:
0


Retired:
0


General characteristics


Type:
Aircraft carrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier)


Displacement:
100,000 to 104,600 long tons (101,600–106,300 t)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Polmar-1)


Length:
Overall: 1,092 feet (332.8 m)
Waterline: 1,040 feet (317.0 m)


Beam:
Overall: 252 ft (76.8 m)
Waterline: 134 ft (40.8 m)


Draft:
Maximum navigational: 37 ft (11.3 m)
Limit: 41 ft (12.5 m)


Propulsion:
2 × Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Company) A4W nuclear reactors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A4W_reactor)
4 × steam turbines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine)
4 × shafts
260,000 shp (194 MW)


Speed:
30+ knots (56+ km/h; 35+ mph)


Range:
Unlimited distance; 20-25 years


Complement:
Ship's company: 3,200
Air wing: 2,480


Crew:
Up to 5,000+


Sensors and
processing systems:
AN/SPS-48E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-48) 3-D air search radar
AN/SPS-49(V)5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-49) 2-D air search radar
AN/SPQ-9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPQ-9)B target acquisition radar
AN/SPN-46 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPN-46) air traffic control radars
AN/SPN-43C (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AN/SPN-43&action=edit&redlink=1) air traffic control radar
AN/SPN-41 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AN/SPN-41&action=edit&redlink=1) landing aid radars
4 × Mk 91 NSSM guidance systems
4 × Mk 95 radars


Electronic warfare
and decoys:
SLQ-32A(V)4 Countermeasures suite
SLQ-25A Nixie torpedo countermeasures


Armament:


16–24 × RIM-7 Sea Sparrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow) or NATO Sea Sparrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow) missiles
3 or 4 × Phalanx CIWSs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS) or RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile)




Armor:
2.5 in (64 mm) Kevlar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar) over vital spaces[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Fontenoy-2)


Aircraft carried:
85–90 fixed wing and helicopters[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ship_encyclopedia-3)

</tbody>


Kusnetsov Class Carrier (Russia)


<tbody>
Class and type:
Heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_cruiser)


Displacement:


43,000-tonnes, light[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)
53,000 - 55,200-tonnes, standard[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ReferenceA-3)
58,600 - 67,500-tonnes, max[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuzspecs-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-Kuznetsov_specifications-2)




Length:
305 m (1,001 ft)


Beam:
72 m (236 ft)


Draught:
11 m (36 ft)


Propulsion:
Steam turbines 80,000 shp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#Shaft_horsepower)(60,000 kW)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier#cite_note-ReferenceA-3)
200,000 shp (150,000 kW)


Speed:
29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph)


Range:
8,500 nmi (15,700 km; 9,800 mi) @ 18 kn (33 km/h; 21 mph) 3,800 nmi (7,000 km; 4,400 mi) @ 29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph)


Complement:
1,500


Armament:
12 P-700 Granit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit) (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) anti-ship missiles
192 3K95 Kinzhal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Missile_System#3K95_Kinzhal) (SA-N-9 Gauntlet) SAMs
8 Kashtan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashtan_CIWS) CIWS mounts
6 AK-630 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630) AA guns
1 UDAV-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udav-1_anti-submarine_system) ASW rocket launcher


Aircraft carried:
30-40

18-32 × fixed wing aircraft
17-24 × helicopters




Aviation facilities:
Angled arrested landing flight deck
Bow ski jump

</tbody>


1/2 the ship... 1/2 the aircraft... only ONE in existence.


Lets keep comparing hardware.... The Nimitz wins hand down...

Next up..... Submarines!!

Fuck this commie. He's pissed me the fuck off.

[Balu]

Lets compare:



Let's compare "Abrams", "Leopard", "Merkava" and RPG-29. Hope the hint is clear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Balu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDyCWKcONHk

[Balu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOgLby3Beb0

[CSM]

Fuck this commie. He's pissed me the fuck off.

I'm thinking that is exactly what he tried to do but don't take it personally. I think he was trying to piss off a lot of folks on this board. Being a Cold War warrior myself, it didn't take long to recognize the old Soviet style propaganda machine at work with this guy. He really may be an ex-Soviet "colonel" (which makes him about equal to a US Second Lieutenant). I am sure he is well versed in propaganda and trained to shoot his own troops if they retreat.

I don't necessarily fault him though. He is a product of a culture that believes their own bullshit much like liberals here in the US.

[Balu]

I'm thinking that is exactly what he tried to do but don't take it personally. I think he was trying to piss off a lot of folks on this board. Being a Cold War warrior myself, it didn't take long to recognize the old Soviet style propaganda machine at work with this guy. He really may be an ex-Soviet "colonel" (which makes him about equal to a US Second Lieutenant). I am sure he is well versed in propaganda and trained to shoot his own troops if they retreat.

I don't necessarily fault him though. He is a product of a culture that believes their own bullshit much like liberals here in the US.

Overestimation sometimes may play bad jokes. Do you want me to remind you about KFOR in Pristina (Yugoslavia)? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[CSM]

Overestimation sometimes may play bad jokes. Do you want me to remind you about KFOR in Pristina (Yugoslavia)? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

LOL...I guess you like the word "overestimation" ... could that be because you are tired of "underestimating"?

[Jeff]

Most of what you're posting is pure propaganda for the Russian masses, Balu. That's cool.

Russian peasants fed media soundbites are going to believe what Putin tells them through your State-Owned media outlets, but don't expect skeptical Americans buying into it. You'll find that any state-owned media outlet raises red flags with thinking Americans and Europeans because we know our own governments can and will lie to us. Happens all the time, and you're incredibly naive if you think it doesn't.

If we don't trust our own government to tell us the truth, what makes you think we're going to believe Putin's propaganda machine?

I see you posting pieces in this thread showing how our missile defense systems won't perform - but I can tell you that your little map there is incomplete just for Alaska. There are quite a few other sites involved that your map completely misses right here where I live - and those are the components that I, as a civilian, know about. Most of the network is Top Secret and isn't discussed openly. I suspect that your piece was written for your average Russian peasant who doesn't know any better because he gets the "news" that Putin wants him to have. If your site can't even complete the map for Alaska, it's highly unlikely it's accurate for anywhere else.

I see you continually posting about how great the Russian military is and how terrible America is - what's that all about? If you enjoy angering Americans and you're looking for a fight, why do you have Gunny ignored? He's a Marine that has ready answers for you from decades of service, and with your broadly antagonizing posts I would think you'd relish a good fiery argument about which country is best and what military hardware is superior.

What I'm trying to say is your posts are confusing. On one hand you are looking to piss off Americans to get us to fight, and on the other hand when a Marine steps up to the plate that knows what he's talking about, you put him on ignore.

I can certainly step up and show you how technologically superior we are in every military capacity compared to Russia and have the ability to outspend you by trillions, as VFR pointed out. Is that what you're looking for?

Do you want to compare weapons systems to determine who is the better country? Or do you want to compare which country secretly meddled more in other countries' affairs? Or do you want to compare economies to determine which country is better?

I get the feeling that you're an old-school communist that longs for the glory days of the Cold War. I've got a news flash for you, Ivan : It's over - you lost and we won.

First let me say GREAT POST NT, I have to spread them before giving them.
As for Gunny being on ignore, it has nothing to do with Gunny's rank, it is all about as you posted, Gunny knows what he is saying and isn't going to be Political Correct when he says it.


First - Thank you for your post.
Then, as to Gunny, I NEVER argue with Sergs. I've already said, that in terms of US insignia I would have had "chickens" on my shoulder straps. I am a retired Senior Officer, who worked in many countries in Soviet times and later. So, his "knowledge" is of no use and of nor interest for me. I know much more than he can imaging. Besides, he is rude and bad-mannered person.
As to Alaska etc. I did not give you the detailed maps. I only gave reference points enough to draw a picture.
And finally, I do not want to tease or convince anybody here. I nave no aim to rebuild you. What I am speaking about may be named as - "Looking from Moscow" - paraphrase of the famous BBC - "Looking from London". And this is naive to think that our points of view will coincide. So, you may feel yourself a winner if it pleases you. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

In other words your a punk hiding behind a computer screen and always have been.


So in other words you never did your own fighting? That figures. They must have a different standard for "chicken straps" where you are than they do here. Because you are just lame. I'd go against YOU in combat ANYTIME, chicken straps. Just bring a good supply of body bags, bubba. You're going to need them.

The fact is, you and your hero are fucked. Enjoy your year and a half with the dancing chicken. It's ALL you got left.

See above answer.


Fuck this commie. He's pissed me the fuck off.

Who let the commie in anyway. :laugh:


I'm thinking that is exactly what he tried to do but don't take it personally. I think he was trying to piss off a lot of folks on this board. Being a Cold War warrior myself, it didn't take long to recognize the old Soviet style propaganda machine at work with this guy. He really may be an ex-Soviet "colonel" (which makes him about equal to a US Second Lieutenant). I am sure he is well versed in propaganda and trained to shoot his own troops if they retreat.

I don't necessarily fault him though. He is a product of a culture that believes their own bullshit much like liberals here in the US.

Well said CSM, and very true. Balu is a product of what he has been force fed, just the same as out Liberals. In America we are allowed to think for ourselves but commie's ( much like liberals ) don't have the nerve to do so. In Balu's case it is a product of the country he lives in, he is force fed the news by his Government, Yes he is allowed to have his own beliefs as long as they are the same as Putin's.

[Balu]

LOL...I guess you like the word "overestimation" ... could that be because you are tired of "underestimating"?

I don't think that I was "underestimated" when I was proposed a job in one of the Western Armies and a pension after retirement according to my rank. I see that you have understood nothing yet. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[CSM]

I don't think that I was "underestimated" when I was proposed a job in one of the Western Armies and a pension after retirement according to my rank. I see that you have understood nothing yet. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

Sounds like someone wanted you to defect... or that Western Army was in dire need of janitors.

[Balu]

Sounds like someone wanted you to defect... or that Western Army was in dire need of janitors.

Bravo! :clap:

[tailfins]

I don't think that I was "underestimated" when I was proposed a job in one of the Western Armies and a pension after retirement according to my rank. I see that you have understood nothing yet. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

The flavor of your posts seems heavily influenced by your military ideological training. You remind me of a retired Army Sergeant I met in Cuba. He was a sharp debater. He even noticed my Brazilian accent when I speak Spanish. He said he served in Angola, offering to speak to me in Portuguese if I preferred. He thought the Cuban Communist Party was the cure for all that ails mankind. He reluctantly let me see his ration book, however pointing out that all that stuff was "free". I noticed that the section for "jabon" (soap) was blank. I gave a few bars out of my back pack to his wife. She started crying and thanking me profusely, telling me that they haven't had soap for months.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Thank you, Balu, for opening up this particular thread. I caught this news on the BBC, and was toying with the idea of opening one on this subject, though a condemnatory one.

Interestingly, though, you give the impression of being proud of what Russia is doing.

I say this: do you not grasp, Balu, that such a move from Russia only worsens the way the wider world will view it ??

The more general point to make is that if the world needs anything, it's FEWER such missiles.

The more specific point is that Russia's international activities, with particular reference to the Crimea and eastern Ukraine, are fueling the unmistakeable message of Russia proving itself to be a belligerent power on the world stage. THIS LATEST DEVELOPMENT HARDLY HELPS.

If Putin WANTS Russia to become a pariah State, then his recent decisions and actions aid such a goal. Though, why he'd inflict that association on to his country's citizens, giving the world even more justification for sanctions, is frankly beyond me.

Unless Putin's a nutter, that is ....

Problem is that Putin knows and Russia knows even with us having a supremely weak leader-the obama- our military is still far, far ahead of theirs.
What Putin presents to his people may be pointed solely toward countering American military might but in truth is more likely his trying to improve the Russian bad economy by -MORE EXPORTS- in this case big ticket items, military hardware to big spenders.

It could be more about trade and less about military bravado but always a great strategy when one can hide a weakness by presenting it as a great strength. Such imports of weapons systems to India etc would be a muti-billion dollar exchange which would greatly help the failing Russian economy thats due to the fallen oil prices.

Problem is, how the world sees it and how different nations may choose to react--in our case - the freaking dumbass obama may rush to make concessions to get Russia to slow or stop this arms expansion and selling. Putin is no dummy, could easily get great things by mere proclamation.
And that because we have a fool as our leader. Elections have consequences.-Tyr

[NightTrain]

First - Thank you for your post.
Then, as to Gunny, I NEVER argue with Sergs. I've already said, that in terms of US insignia I would have had "chickens" on my shoulder straps. I am a retired Senor Officer, who worked in many countries in Soviet times and later. So, his "knowledge" is of no use and of nor interest for me. I know much more than he can imaging. Besides, he is rude and bad-mannered person.

Yes, you would have been a Colonel.

I know next to nothing of the interactions between Soviet officers and enlisted... but I will tell you this : Sergeants win the battles and are heavily relied upon by the officers making the decisions in the U.S. Military. A Gunny is universally respected throughout the military and their toughness is legendary. All of the high-ranking NCOs are very highly regarded and their leadership and knowledge is heavily relied upon by every successful commander.

I'm thinking you don't understand what rank a Gunnery Sergeant is - it's ranked #7 out of 9 Marine NCO ranks.


As to Alaska etc. I did not give you the detailed maps. I only gave reference points enough to draw a picture.

You, as a former Colonel, should quickly see that what you posted is not grounded in reality. All of it has a massive propaganda spin and you know it.


And finally, I do not want to tease or convince anybody here. I nave no aim to rebuild you. What I am speaking about may be named as - "Looking from Moscow" - paraphrase of the famous BBC - "Looking from London". And this is naive to think that our points of view will coincide. So, you may feel yourself a winner if it pleases you. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

No, I'm not looking to determine who is the "winner". I'm trying to figure out what you're doing, because your actions are contradictory, as I pointed out before.

Maybe there is a language translation issue and what you're saying sounds different than what you're trying to express... I'm not the only one that has noticed the inflammatory tone of some of your posts. And if you are looking to scrap, that's no problem - there are many here that will be your huckleberry.

[jimnyc]

I'm not necessarily complaining, but why so many Russia threads? This IS an American board. While I think it's cool discussing foreign stuff, and even cooler welcoming in some foreign guests, sometimes it feels like we are being infiltrated! Not many here will care if they see most Russian news, unless it directly is related to the USA.

But since I'm here, I wanted to post this.

http://i.imgur.com/8HCLXxk.jpg

[tailfins]

Maybe there is a language translation issue and what you're saying sounds different than what you're trying to express... I'm not the only one that has noticed the inflammatory tone of some of your posts. And if you are looking to scrap, that's no problem - there are many here that will be your huckleberry.

Even I noticed belligerence in some of his posts. Asking me if something is inflammatory is like asking a hearing-impaired person if your music is too loud. If that hearing-impaired person says "Yes", your windows are probably rattling.

[NightTrain]

I don't think that I was "underestimated" when I was proposed a job in one of the Western Armies and a pension after retirement according to my rank.


I don't know what the Russian pension is like, but if you'd have taken a U.S. offer to defect and they'd credited you with 30 years service, you'd be making $8,000 per month as a retired O-6 (Colonel). Probably some really nice bonus perks too, if they wanted you bad enough.

Who was it that offered? Brits or Americans?

Offers like that don't generally go to regular forces Colonels, so you must have been KGB or GRU.

[Gunny]

Let's compare "Abrams", "Leopard", "Merkava" and RPG-29. Hope the hint is clear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

Want to equate? I'm a United States Marine and we represent the United States of America. You best just start recruiting from Mars if you want to take us on ... boy.

Here's a a hint: Don't fuck with us, pissant. Your asses have lost at every turn trying to defy us.

Here's a hint for YOU: The MIG-21 was technologically superior to the F-4 Phantom. So that 15-1 kill ratio must have had something to do with the man behind the machine, huh?

Oh, and do you and your dickhead master REALLY think we adhered to SALT II? Naive, at best. Stupid in general.

[Balu]

I don't know what the Russian pension is like, but if you'd have taken a U.S. offer to defect and they'd credited you with 30 years service, you'd be making $8,000 per month as a retired O-6 (Colonel). Probably some really nice bonus perks too, if they wanted you bad enough.

Who was it that offered? Brits or Americans?

Offers like that don't generally go to regular forces Colonels, so you must have been KGB or GRU.
You are smart, Sir. I bet you are not a truck driver (With all my RESPECT to this profession and drivers. I know what it means to be hundreds miles at the wheel) http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Gunny]

You are smart, Sir. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

And you're a commie piece of shit, chicken straps

[Voted4Reagan]

Let's compare "Abrams", "Leopard", "Merkava" and RPG-29. Hope the hint is clear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

Abrams wins hands down....

Leopard has too few numbers

Merkava is Slow compared to the M1a-1

and you want to throw the RPG-29 in there? I'll counter that with an A-10 Thunderbolt II and a 30MM Gatling gun firing Depleted Uranium Penetrator Rounds. Remember how many thousands of T-72, T-80 and T-90's it has destroyed since 1990.

you have nothing to compare.....

[Balu]

Abrams wins hands down....

Leopard has too few numbers

Merkava is Slow compared to the M1a-1

and you want to throw the RPG-29 in there? I'll counter that with an A-10 Thunderbolt II and a 30MM Gatling gun firing Depleted Uranium Penetrator Rounds. Remember how many thousands of T-72, T-80 and T-90's it has destroyed since 1990.

you have nothing to compare.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaswXzplQwM

[aboutime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaswXzplQwM

Balu: Try as hard as you think you can, but we had A LITTLE BOY, and FAT BOY that will ruin your day...forever.

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaswXzplQwM

The Abrams has never lost a crew....

Can any Russian tank claim that?

a few dozen Abrams have been Damaged.... All returned to Service with no Dead Crews.

[Balu]

The Abrams has never lost a crew....

Can any Russian tank claim that?

a few dozen Abrams have been Damaged.... All returned to Service with no Dead Crews.

"... At least five soldiers have been killed inside the tanks when they hit roadside bombs, according to figures from the Army's Armor Center at Fort Knox, Ky. At least 10 more have died while riding partially exposed from open hatches..."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-29-abrams-tank-a_x.htm

[Balu]

Voted4Reagan,
Have a look! It may be interesting for you.

http://bazalt.ru/en/

(http://bazalt.ru/en/)<header class="entry-header">Russian army will receive double-barreled grenade launcher “Hook” (https://militarytechcooperations.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/russian-army-will-receive-double-barreled-granade-launcher-hook/)

</header> https://militarytechcooperations.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/11d0b0d0b0rpg-30_bd.jpg?w=640


Thanks to the double charge of the RPG-30 is capable of destroying any modern tank
Defense has set a date for delivery to the troops of the latest hand-held two-barrel grenade launcher RPG-30 “Hook” development NGOs “Basalt”. The delivery will begin in November of this year. “News” found that the military ordered one thousand grenades cost 83 rubles apiece.
– The contract for the supply of the RPG-30 in the amount of 83 million rubles was concluded at the end of last year. It was reported that the grenade launchers successfully passed state tests in 2009 – Defense Ministry spokesman told the publication.
– “Hook” shoots two rocket-propelled grenades at once. First is the simulator, which causes activation of the active protection of the tank, followed by – the main grenade caliber 105 mm, as in the previous version of the RPG-29 “Vampire” – Defense officer said to the “News”


(http://bazalt.ru/en/)

[Voted4Reagan]

Voted4Reagan,
Have a look! It may be interesting for you.

http://bazalt.ru/en/

(http://bazalt.ru/en/)<header class="entry-header">Russian army will receive double-barreled grenade launcher “Hook” (https://militarytechcooperations.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/russian-army-will-receive-double-barreled-granade-launcher-hook/)

</header> https://militarytechcooperations.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/11d0b0d0b0rpg-30_bd.jpg?w=640


Thanks to the double charge of the RPG-30 is capable of destroying any modern tank
Defense has set a date for delivery to the troops of the latest hand-held two-barrel grenade launcher RPG-30 “Hook” development NGOs “Basalt”. The delivery will begin in November of this year. “News” found that the military ordered one thousand grenades cost 83 rubles apiece.
– The contract for the supply of the RPG-30 in the amount of 83 million rubles was concluded at the end of last year. It was reported that the grenade launchers successfully passed state tests in 2009 – Defense Ministry spokesman told the publication.
– “Hook” shoots two rocket-propelled grenades at once. First is the simulator, which causes activation of the active protection of the tank, followed by – the main grenade caliber 105 mm, as in the previous version of the RPG-29 “Vampire” – Defense officer said to the “News”


(http://bazalt.ru/en/)

Doesn't beat a HellFire.... Keep Trying

[LongTermGuy]

Doesn't beat a HellFire.... Keep Trying

:laugh:......and Balu will.....what next from Balu....:thumb::laugh:

[Balu]

Doesn't beat a HellFire.... Keep Trying
You are funny! It beat ANY tanks. But ours are invulnerable even from the top. So, remain in your assurance. I am not inclined to deliver lectures to you. I don't wish you be sure how much you are mistaken. You never fought against us. Those who tried have no such a desire on a genetic level. It cost them too much. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Voted4Reagan]

You are funny! It beat ANY tanks. But ours are invulnerable even from the top. So, remain in your assurance. I am not inclined to deliver lectures to you. I don't wish you be sure how much you are mistaken. You never fought against us. Those who tried have no such a desire on a genetic level. It cost them too much. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

I am not advocating a fight... You asked for a comparison of equipment.

The Hellfire is the best anti-tank device on the planet....

The A-10 has killed more Russian Hardware than the Black Death killed people in Europe.

I already stated the US doesn't want to invade Russia.... and Russia can't invade the west.

You keep trying to push superiority.... which is a lie...

Russia's military is in a woeful state... antiquated equipment, antiquated Navy, few operational Gen 4++ aircraft.

and yet you posture like a peacock....

[Balu]

I am not advocating a fight... You asked for a comparison of equipment.

The Hellfire is the best anti-tank device on the planet....

The A-10 has killed more Russian Hardware than the Black Death killed people in Europe.

I already stated the US doesn't want to invade Russia.... and Russia can't invade the west.

You keep trying to push superiority.... which is a lie...

Russia's military is in a woeful state... antiquated equipment, antiquated Navy, few operational Gen 4++ aircraft.

and yet you posture like a peacock....
Good flights to your underdeveloped Raptors and your invisible bombers, which are invisible only for you and African tribes.
I would remind you how an ancient AA Complex c-125 "Pechora" (export modification of C-125 "Neva") from the 60-s with its reduced characteristics shot down your F-117. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/laugh1.gif

http://vegchel.ru/uploads/posts/2015-03/medium/1427444155_12.jpg

[Jeff]

:laugh:......and Balu will.....what next from Balu....:thumb::laugh:

Wow, I just stepped into this thread on this page and see the Commie is still trying to prove that they are some how better then we, My goodness if I had nothing to do all day but get on a overseas message board and spout propaganda I think I would eat the bullet. :smoke:

But to show the commie how nice we can be I will give him a present. :dev3: :laugh:

[Balu]

Wow, I just stepped into this thread on this page and see the Commie is still trying to prove that they are some how better then we, My goodness if I had nothing to do all day but get on a overseas message board and spout propaganda I think I would eat the bullet. :smoke:

But to show the commie how nice we can be I will give him a present. :dev3: :laugh:

Do not suffer complexes Sir! Do not! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

[Voted4Reagan]

Good flights to your underdeveloped Raptors and your invisible bombers, which are invisible only for you and African tribes.
I would remind you how an ancient AA Complex c-125 "Pechora" (export modification of C-125 "Neva") from the 60-s with its reduced characteristics shot down your F-117. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/laugh1.gif

http://vegchel.ru/uploads/posts/2015-03/medium/1427444155_12.jpg\

you know the F-117 was retired.... right?

[Balu]

\

you know the F-117 was retired.... right?
You know it was 15 years back? In 1999. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dance2.gif

[Voted4Reagan]

You know it was 15 years back? In 1999. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dance2.gif

You're crowing about one plane 15 years ago...

What stealth aircraft do you have Balu? NONE

That plane was built in 1981... ONE plane shot down in 28 years... and the Pilot survived.

And you're carrying on like it's a great thing?

The F-117A was a test bed for stealth technology... we now have the B-2, F-22, F-35 and even our ships are getting Stealth Technology... The DDG-1000 "Zumwalt Class" is an example.

So Care to keep going?? I'll beat you up all day with Hardware Comparisons....

Oh... The "Gerald R. Ford-Class" Carriers are being built as we speak.

First will be the - USS Gerald R. Ford
Second will be - USS John F. Kennedy
Third will be - USS ENTERPRISE

How's that Kremlin class Carrier coming along?... Oh... it was cancelled because you ran out of money... back in the 1980's

well... guess the Moskva and Kusnetsov will still be your front line Naval Air Power.

Thats the Russians... all talk, NO MONEY.

http://www.jeffhead.com/usn21/zumwalt-ddg1000-01.jpg

[Voted4Reagan]

Or our new LCS-Class Ships..

"Freedom" and "Independence"

USS Freedom - LCS 1

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/USS-Freedom-130222-N-DR144-174-crop.jpg/280px-USS-Freedom-130222-N-DR144-174-crop.jpg



USS Independence LCS-2

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg/280px-USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg

[Balu]

You're crowing about one plane 15 years ago...

What stealth aircraft do you have Balu? NONE

That plane was built in 1981... ONE plane shot down in 28 years... and the Pilot survived.

And you're carrying on like it's a great thing?

The F-117A was a test bed for stealth technology... we now have the B-2, F-22, F-35 and even our ships are getting Stealth Technology... The DDG-1000 "Zumwalt Class" is an example.

So Care to keep going?? I'll beat you up all day with Hardware Comparisons....

Oh... The "Gerald R. Ford-Class" Carriers are being built as we speak.

First will be the - USS Gerald R. Ford
Second will be - USS John F. Kennedy
Third will be - USS ENTERPRISE

How's that Kremlin class Carrier coming along?... Oh... it was cancelled because you ran out of money... back in the 1980's

well... guess the Moskva and Kusnetsov will still be your front line Naval Air Power.

Thats the Russians... all talk, NO MONEY.

The are two possible approaches to make an air craft invisible - the construction and materials of the aircraft and to make the target aiming system blind.
"Donald Cook" proved that the 2-nd approach works fine. I wonder if the stock of pampers was sufficient for the crew of this combat ship. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/mosking.gif

[Gunny]

Voted4Reagan,
Have a look! It may be interesting for you.

http://bazalt.ru/en/

(http://bazalt.ru/en/)<header class="entry-header">Russian army will receive double-barreled grenade launcher “Hook” (https://militarytechcooperations.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/russian-army-will-receive-double-barreled-granade-launcher-hook/)

</header> https://militarytechcooperations.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/11d0b0d0b0rpg-30_bd.jpg?w=640


Thanks to the double charge of the RPG-30 is capable of destroying any modern tank
Defense has set a date for delivery to the troops of the latest hand-held two-barrel grenade launcher RPG-30 “Hook” development NGOs “Basalt”. The delivery will begin in November of this year. “News” found that the military ordered one thousand grenades cost 83 rubles apiece.
– The contract for the supply of the RPG-30 in the amount of 83 million rubles was concluded at the end of last year. It was reported that the grenade launchers successfully passed state tests in 2009 – Defense Ministry spokesman told the publication.
– “Hook” shoots two rocket-propelled grenades at once. First is the simulator, which causes activation of the active protection of the tank, followed by – the main grenade caliber 105 mm, as in the previous version of the RPG-29 “Vampire” – Defense officer said to the “News”


(http://bazalt.ru/en/)

I always wondered what happened to Baghdad Bob. Now I know.

[Voted4Reagan]

The are two possible approaches to make an air craft invisible - the construction and materials of the aircraft and to make the target aiming system blind.
"Donald Cook" proved that the 2-nd approach works fine. I wonder if the stock of pampers was sufficient for the crew of this combat ship. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/mosking.gif

And Russia employs neither... even the MiG-35 shows up on Radar like a 747.

[tailfins]

My question for Balu is this: Let's say for discussion's sake, you convince the US public that Russia's military is far superior. What do you think the result would be? I think the result would be a willingness to accept a tax increase and a demand to improve the United States military. Is that the result you want?

[Gunny]

My question for Balu is this: Let's say for discussion's sake, you convince the US public that Russia's military is far superior. What do you think the result would be? I think the result would be a willingness to accept a tax increase and a demand to improve the United States military. Is that the result you want?

We don't need a tax increase. We need little bitches to shut up and "let loose the Dogs of War". Russia has a sorry-ass military and a leader who is just full of it. Putin is talking shit because he can. Now. He better hope and pray no conservative gets into office. I'm sure his donation to the Clinton Foundation will go unnoticed.

[aboutime]

Perhaps Balu should be reminded of the Historic past, when a Japanese Admiral...following the attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941 said "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant!" Or, something like that. To which...the Sleeping Giant, also known as the AMERICAN people...WOKE UP!

History tells what happened then.:laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

Russia has NO Gen-5 Fighters

Russia has NO Stealth ability

Russia's Navy relies on ships built back during the early days of the Cold War. These include:

Class/Year introduced

Sovremenny-class destroyer - 1980

Udaloy I class - 1980

Kashin-class destroyers - 1969

Slava class cruiser - 1969

Kirov-class battlecruiser - 1974 (4 built - 2 retired and scrapped, one in reserve and one active)

All totaled the Russian Navy has 20 Major surface combat ships (not counting Subs and Mine layers, and support vessels.) The Majority of the Russian fleet is composed of Frigates and Corvettes. Most dating back to the late Cold war days but I will say the new Buyan-Class is a good design.

Russian Submarines:

Ballistic Missile Subs:

Mostly Delta-III and Delta-IV class (these are old Cold-War Subs), 3 Borei-Class(2013-2014) and one active TYPHOON Class Sub. Compared to the Ohio Class these boats are generations behind.

Attack Subs for Russia are an oddball assortment of Oskar-Class, Sierra-Class,Akula-Class and Viktor-Class boats.

One new Yasen-Class is in service... all the others are cold war relics.

The Virginia Class, Seawolf-Class and Los Angeles Class all are far superior.


Shall I keep going Balu?

[Gunny]

Perhaps Balu should be reminded of the Historic past, when a Japanese Admiral...following the attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941 said "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant!" Or, something like that. To which...the Sleeping Giant, also known as the AMERICAN people...WOKE UP!

History tells what happened then.:laugh:

Yamamoto said that. He lived in and was educated in the US. Tojo should have listened.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I remind you guys that Russia too has nukes. And there seems to be a cozying up to China that would actually put us in danger, as united they'd be tough to beat. Especially now if it happened with this weak and stupid president as CiC..
While I do not think Russia can match us , lets remember what both Napoleon and Hitler found out the hard way when attacking Russia.
Did I mention they have nukes? And it things got bad during a war are far more likely to use them?
Food for thought in this jousting contest methinks.. -Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

I remind you guys that Russia too has nukes. And there seems to be a cozying up to China that would actually put us in danger, as united they'd be tough to beat. Especially now if it happened with this weak and stupid president as CiC..
While I do not think Russia can match us , lets remember what both Napoleon and Hitler found out the hard way when attacking Russia.
Did I mention they have nukes? And it things got bad during a war are far more likely to use them?
Food for thought in this jousting contest methinks.. -Tyr

Nobody is Jousting... actually my whole premise is that Fighting wont break out between the Russians and the United States.

Balu is just trying to puff up his feathers and feel good about a Military that is underfunded, undermanned, relies on 40 year old equipment and a majority of which is obsolete.

There is no reason to attack them. If Russia attacks the USA/NATO alliance they lose. If we invade Russia the toll is horrendous.

The United States has the best equipment in all areas. the Russians are far behind.

Nobody is launching Nukes and Nobody is going to invade. It's a Putin Puff Propaganda Piece.

And Balu eats it up like Candy....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yamamoto said that. He lived in and was educated in the US. Tojo should have listened.

They found out the hard way that pulling the tigers tail while it is asleep in a cage is ok, but once it wakes and the cage door flies open,
all hell breaks upon the tail pullers. We likely still have that but the bammyboy is trying to destroy it as fast as he can.
His time grows short but he speeds up.. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Nobody is Jousting... actually my whole premise is that Fighting wont break out between the Russians and the United States.

Balu is just trying to puff up his feathers and feel good about a Military that is underfunded, undermanned, relies on 40 year old equipment and a majority of which is obsolete.

There is no reason to attack them. If Russia attacks the USA/NATO alliance they lose. If we invade Russia the toll is horrendous.

The United States has the best equipment in all areas. the Russians are far behind.

Nobody is launching Nukes and Nobody is going to invade. It's a Putin Puff Propaganda Piece.

And Balu eats it up like Candy....

Well, whether he is right or he is wrong, who would expect him not to defend his mother country?
Myself, I know we have a very big edge because of our military assets and because of weapons we have that they know nothing about.
Our very real problem would be a solid alliance between Russia and China if it was entered into with the goal to take us down.
Thats a future possibility that concerns me since the bambastard weakens us more every day..-Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uZBm8lAp--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18p2fpynm1ndtjpg.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cdMhsDvv--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18p2fqy6340z4jpg.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--XHg5bTAj--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18p2odvgjob4ojpg.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--KcNzJzhN--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18p2oeszt3kf1jpg.jpg

http://recyclenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Google-Earth-image.jpg

http://russiatrek.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/soviet-missile-ekranoplan-lun-aircraft-russia-2.jpg

[NightTrain]

Well, whether he is right or he is wrong, who would expect him not to defend his mother country?
Myself, I know we have a very big edge because of our military assets and because of weapons we have that they know nothing about.
Our very real problem would be a solid alliance between Russia and China if it was entered into with the goal to take us down.
Thats a future possibility that concerns me since the bambastard weakens us more every day..-Tyr

Well, while China and Russia had a common bond back in the day by both being hardcore Commies, that's not true anymore. They're both careful not to step on each other's toes, but they both are competing for influence and domination in the same region... it would suck to be one of the small countries in that area because both countries have demonstrated that they're ruthless in achieving land grabs from relatively helpless neighbors.

I think, if anything, they will continue to drift apart ideologically until they view each other with animosity and suspicion - which is probably the case already, but they're careful not to do or say anything to ratchet up tensions between them.

Really, I think all the talk about tanks, RPGs and missiles is academic. The future is weapon-grade lasers & energy weapons, and we've already got them mounted on aircraft and the US Navy already has a bunch being tested on ships. A 70-ton tank is going to have a real bad day when an F-22 or F-35 melts a hole through it in less than a second. And can you imagine an AC-130 Ghostrider equipped with those along with 360 degree laser defense? Yep, they're doing that too.

I imagine that there will be smaller ones for Infantry supported by mobile power units mounted on APCs and tanks, but that's still a ways off as things get miniaturized.

The real issue IMO is keeping that technology safe from Chinese and Russian hackers that have already stolen a great deal of technology from us. That's the only way they've managed to stay in the race, admittedly extremely far behind, but there's no excuse for billions of dollars worth of development in American technology being stolen by unfriendly countries.

[Voted4Reagan]

Dont forget the Rail-Gun being developed for the DDG-1000

http://www.inquisitr.com/1826900/u-s-navy-railgun-may-be-installed-on-a-zumwalt-destroyer-laser-cannon-video-inspires-awe/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sAUHwTP4A

[NightTrain]

Dont forget the Rail-Gun being developed for the DDG-1000

http://www.inquisitr.com/1826900/u-s-navy-railgun-may-be-installed-on-a-zumwalt-destroyer-laser-cannon-video-inspires-awe/

I thought about that, and those are impressive kinetic energy weapons... but they're still expensive and you have to carry a stockpile of projectiles and it takes time to reload.

Lasers & energy weapons are fired for literally pennies per shot and there's nothing to reload, time to target is minimized (speed of light), pinpoint accuracy and instantly lethal results. That's why I think they are the future.

And I really hope they install a Sound Card on every one of them so we can hear "Pew Pew!". That's gotta be mandatory.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, while China and Russia had a common bond back in the day by both being hardcore Commies, that's not true anymore. They're both careful not to step on each other's toes, but they both are competing for influence and domination in the same region... it would suck to be one of the small countries in that area because both countries have demonstrated that they're ruthless in achieving land grabs from relatively helpless neighbors.

I think, if anything, they will continue to drift apart ideologically until they view each other with animosity and suspicion - which is probably the case already, but they're careful not to do or say anything to ratchet up tensions between them.

Really, I think all the talk about tanks, RPGs and missiles is academic. The future is weapon-grade lasers & energy weapons, and we've already got them mounted on aircraft and the US Navy already has a bunch being tested on ships. A 70-ton tank is going to have a real bad day when an F-22 or F-35 melts a hole through it in less than a second. And can you imagine an AC-130 Ghostrider equipped with those along with 360 degree laser defense? Yep, they're doing that too.

I imagine that there will be smaller ones for Infantry supported by mobile power units mounted on APCs and tanks, but that's still a ways off as things get miniaturized.

The real issue IMO is keeping that technology safe from Chinese and Russian hackers that have already stolen a great deal of technology from us. That's the only way they've managed to stay in the race, admittedly extremely far behind, but there's no excuse for billions of dollars worth of development in American technology being stolen by unfriendly countries.

True, the assets and weapons I spoke of. There are some not even mentioned.
Also correct about china/russia but there is a move to bring in more cooperation between the two of them, if forced they could possibly form an alliance to thwart USA.
IF, a very big IF, that happened we'd be in some serious trouble , not escaping unscathed in numerous possible future scenarios. -Tyr

[NightTrain]

True, the assets and weapons I spoke of. There are some not even mentioned.
Also correct about china/russia but there is a move to bring in more cooperation between the two of them, if forced they could possibly form an alliance to thwart USA.
IF, a very big IF, that happened we'd be in some serious trouble , not escaping unscathed in numerous possible future scenarios. -Tyr

Yeah, a million screaming peasants wielding machetes charging the line would be a sobering sight... and both China and Russia have historically shown that they have no qualms with sending wave after wave of their conscripts to overwhelm a technologically superior opponent.

Hell, Russian officers were ordered to shoot anyone who didn't hurl their bodies at the Germans. That's why Russian casualties were so appallingly high during WWII. Stalin had millions of peasants, and the Germans had a limited amount of ammo being so far from home.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah, a million screaming peasants wielding machetes charging the line would be a sobering sight... and both China and Russia have historically shown that they have no qualms with sending wave after wave of their conscripts to overwhelm a technologically superior opponent.

Hell, Russian officers were ordered to shoot anyone who didn't hurl their bodies at the Germans. That's why Russian casualties were so appallingly high during WWII. Stalin had millions of peasants, and the Germans had a limited amount of ammo being so far from home.
War is about attrition , be it bodies or ammo! And the first absorbs the other, Stalin being ruthless did not give a damn about the bodies stacking up as long as his tactic eventually gave victory to him.
Ruthless as hell but proved to be very effective.-Tyr

[Balu]

My question for Balu is this: Let's say for discussion's sake, you convince the US public that Russia's military is far superior. What do you think the result would be? I think the result would be a willingness to accept a tax increase and a demand to improve the United States military. Is that the result you want?
That is YOUR problem, NOT ours. If you step wide steps DO NOT WONDER that your trousers will snap into pieces.

[Gunny]

[QUOTE=NightTrain;742828]I thought about that, and those are impressive kinetic energy weapons... but they're still expensive and you have to carry a stockpile of projectiles and it takes time to reload.

Lasers & energy weapons are fired for literally pennies per shot and there's nothing to reload, time to target is minimized (speed of light), pinpoint accuracy and instantly lethal results. That's why I think they are the future.

And I really hope they install a Sound Card on every one of them so we can hear "Pew Pew!". That's gotta be mandatory.[/QUOTE

You're pissing me off.

[NightTrain]

You're pissing me off.

You'll have that from time to time. I gotta be me. :smoke:

[Balu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03q4tguUcA

[aboutime]

I say (confidently)....Let Balu advertise for his PUTIN as much as he wants.

Let them think, and believe they are the superior, military power in the world.

I have no fear that WE...the U.S.A. are very capable..TODAY, of protecting ourselves from
all military threats...advertised by the PUTIN propaganda machine workers...like Balu.

What China, and Russia will never tell their people....to avoid embarrassment, is

Like Most Americans. "They don't know, what they don't know!" And, there is no reason

for China, or Russia to be convinced...any of their weapons haven't already been COUNTERED.

So...let BALU brag. His Hero Putin has to pretend he is the BEAR..that still craps in the woods.:laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

The US/NATO Alliance is quite capable of winning a ground war against the Russians if they ever chose to move into Western Europe.

Russia's equipment is outdated. Her tanks mostly obsolete, her planes 30 years behind ours, her navy sinking at their berths.

They can't maintain what they have never mind the R/D and building of modern assets.

They are no threat to invade.... and we can just leave them in their little Putin Paradise and allow them to remember the days when they were a major power on the world stage.

Poor deluded Russians.... just like 1917.... being led around by the nose by a wannabe dictator.

[Balu]

The US/NATO Alliance is quite capable of winning a ground war against the Russians if they ever chose to move into Western Europe.

Russia's equipment is outdated. Her tanks mostly obsolete, her planes 30 years behind ours, her navy sinking at their berths.

They can't maintain what they have never mind the R/D and building of modern assets.

They are no threat to invade.... and we can just leave them in their little Putin Paradise and allow them to remember the days when they were a major power on the world stage.

Poor deluded Russians.... just like 1917.... being led around by the nose by a wannabe dictator.
In the beginning of 40-s there was a person, who thought the same way. The result was that these were our soldiers why put their signatures on the walls of Reichstag in spite of economies of almost all present EU counties worked for German war machine. Some of them were his direct war alliesю There is something to think over. :lol:

[Voted4Reagan]

In the beginning of 40-s there was a person, who thought the same way. The result was that these were our soldiers why put their signatures on the walls of Reichstag in spite of economies of almost all present EU counties worked for German war machine. Some of them were his direct war alliesю There is something to think over. :lol:

The difference is.... we aren't launching Operation Barbarosa... We are not going to Invade you.

Your Military is outdated, weak, ineffectual against our modern 21st century Military.

Yes... you have Nuclear weapons.... and that is all you have.

But MAD proved that we'll never launch a first strike against Moscow and you'll never launch a first strike against us.

No... we can just sit back and let your military rust away as it has for 30 years....

No need for war with Russia... NATO is a Defensive alliance.. not an offensive one.

[Balu]

The difference is.... we aren't launching Operation Barbarosa... We are not going to Invade you.

Your Military is outdated, weak, ineffectual against our modern 21st century Military.

Yes... you have Nuclear weapons.... and that is all you have.

But MAD proved that we'll never launch a first strike against Moscow and you'll never launch a first strike against us.

No... we can just sit back and let your military rust away as it has for 30 years....

No need for war with Russia... NATO is a Defensive alliance.. not an offensive one.
Dear Sir,
You are mistaken. Today IS NOT April the 1-st. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/acute.gif
Today is June 22-nd, if you know what this date mean in the History of our country.
Yugoslavians felt on their own skin the deffencive nature of NATO.
And now only one of known examples.

<header>U.S. Has Plans for Preemptive Nuclear Attack- Paul Craig Roberts

By Greg Hunter (http://usawatchdog.com/author/greg-hunter/) On June 4, 2014 In Political Analysis (http://usawatchdog.com/category/political-analysis/) 208 Comments
</header> http://usawatchdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/4.jpg (http://usawatchdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/4.jpg)By Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog.com (http://usawatchdog.com/)
Former Assistant Treasury Secretary Dr. Paul Craig Roberts says the U.S. has plans for nuclear war with our rivals. Dr. Roberts explains, “Washington not only has war plans for launching a preemptive nuclear attack on Russia, and also possibly China, but Washington has a cadre of people who advocate nuclear war. We have people running around Washington saying things such as ‘What’s the good of nuclear weapons if you can’t use them.’ . . . These weapons are so lethal that if just one percent of the inventory of the U.S. and Russia were used, the death toll would be at least 2 billion people. Also, if less than half of the inventory of either the U.S. or Russia were used, life would cease to exist on planet earth.” Dr. Roberts goes on to say, “I have been warning about this for some years. I pointed out years ago that the Bush regime had changed U.S. war doctrine such that the role of nuclear weapons was no longer retaliatory to be used in the event of a nuclear attack on the United States. It was elevated to a first strike position. It is now our war doctrine that we can initiate a nuclear war on somebody we don’t like, or who we think might not agree with us, or who we think might be prepared to go to war against us. This doctrine applies to countries that do not have nuclear weapons.”
Why is Russia the target for U.S. nukes? Roberts says, “Russia is a country that is large enough and has sufficient resources that it could rise to the position to being a barrier to Washington’s exercise of hegemony over the world. So, Russia has always been the target of this nuclear war doctrine. How are they implementing this? The United States is now putting, on the border of Russia, anti-ballistic missile bases, or ABM’s. In the Regan years, it was called ‘Star Wars.’ These missiles are designed for intercepting intercontinental ballistic missiles. So, if we were to attack Russia, and Russia were nuclear devastated and pushed the button and sent ICBM’s headed to the U.S. for retaliation, the anti- ballistic bases would shoot down the incoming Russian ICBM’s and leave America untouched. The doctrine is now prevalent in Washington that the United States can win a nuclear war because we have the shield of anti-ballistic missiles.”
So, America is safe? Robert’s says no-way and explains, “Even if every American city is spared retaliation, all the Americans would die too due to the radiation and due to the nuclear winter. . . . all of the temperate climates would have freezing temperatures every day of the year for three years. So, clearly there wouldn’t be any food grown. This is over and above whatever the radiation does to people. This is a very serious situation that the United States actually has plans for nuclear war and thinks it has to wipe out Russia and China so nobody gets in the way of Washington dictating to the world. This is blatantly evil.”
Why isn’t the national media reporting this? Dr. Roberts, who was also a top editor at the Wall Street Journal, contends, “The New York Times and Washington Post are part of it. They are all for these wars. The answer is they are all bought off. They are bought off or they are intimidated because if you say anything negative about Washington, you must be an anti-American. The whole thing is at the point of absurdity.”
What about Russia and China making a first strike of their own? Do you think that is far-fetched? Dr. Roberts points out, “What I am telling you is in the public record. This isn’t an opinion. This is all in the public record. Anyone can read it. The Russians and the Chinese are both fully aware of it. . . . This is very dangerous for Washington to have this doctrine and to be implementing it by putting ABM bases in Poland. . . . The bases are already established in Poland and there will be more. The Polish government has signed the death warrant for humanity. . . . It gives Washington the confidence that we can attack Russia without any consequences. . . . Of course, these systems never work like people think they will work, they never do. There are no winners. It is impossible to win. This is ignorance, and the belief you can win a nuclear war makes it possible, makes it likely.”
Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts. (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/)
(There is much, much more in the video interview.)
After the Interview:
Dr. Roberts’ work is featured on his website, PaulCraigRoberts.org. His site is free, and Dr. Roberts offsets the expense of running his site with donations. If you’d like to support Dr. Roberts, please go to his Donations page by clicking here (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/pages/donate/). Dr. Roberts’ latest book is called “How America was Lost.” If you would like to buy a copy, please click here. (http://www.claritypress.com/RobertsAnthology.html)

http://usawatchdog.com/u-s-has-plans-for-preemptive-nuclear-attack-paul-craig-roberts/

[Balu]

...Yes... you have Nuclear weapons.... and that is all you have. ...


Please, DO NOT try to look silly. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/acute.gif

US and Russia remain world’s biggest arms exporters – study

Published time: March 16, 2015 11:17

http://img.rt.com/files/news/3a/d6/d0/00/russian-arms-export.si.jpg

Russia remains the world’s second biggest seller of arms behind the United States, increasing its share by 37 percent in 2010-2014. China has boosted exports by 143 percent, squeezing out Germany from the top three exporters.
Russian weapons were exported to 56 countries, with India, China and Algeria making for almost 60 percent of total sales, said (http://books.sipri.org/files/FS/SIPRIFS1503.pdf) the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) in its 2015 Yearbook Monday. Asia and Oceania received 66 percent of Russian arms exports during the period, while Africa accounted for 12 percent and the Middle East 10 percent.
The United States remains the leading arms exporter increasing sales by 23 percent, with the country’s share of the global arms trade at 31 percent. Ninety-four countries imported US made weaponry, with the Middle East accounting for 32 percent of the purchases. The United States and Russia made up 58 percent of the global trade in conventional arms.
Chinese sales have made a breakthrough in the last four years increasing exports by 143 percent, surpassing Germany and leaping from ninth to the third position, however, still far behind the US and Russia.

http://rt.com/business/241005-russia-second-arms-exporter/

[aboutime]

Balu. Do you happen to remember something Intelligent people used to call "THE COLD WAR"?

Of course, from the 1960's on. Both the U.S. and the former U.S.S.R. had nuclear strike plans ready to be used. And, there can be no doubt today. "MAD" is still a very real possibility.

So...would you like Putin to PUSH THE BUTTON 1st, or should WE?

[Voted4Reagan]

Balu. Do you happen to remember something Intelligent people used to call "THE COLD WAR"?

Of course, from the 1960's on. Both the U.S. and the former U.S.S.R. had nuclear strike plans ready to be used. And, there can be no doubt today. "MAD" is still a very real possibility.

So...would you like Putin to PUSH THE BUTTON 1st, or should WE?

The Russian stuff is so old and broken down they would probably nuke Vladivostok instead of New York if they pushed the button.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ

[Drummond]

The Russian stuff is so old and broken down they would probably nuke Vladivostok instead of New York if they pushed the button.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ

Reminds me of a report I vaguely remember hearing about, many years ago. It had to do with a rather old example (before any scrapping of the shuttles) of American astronauts boarding a Russian spacecraft in orbit, following through on a political accommodation which had it that the Americans and Russians should cooperate more in space.

What the American astronauts saw, amazed them. They regarded it all as one almighty rip-off. Turned out that the Russian equipment was very primitive compared to their own. No wonder the Russians, more normally manically protective of their resources, were so complicit !

http://io9.com/incredible-soviet-rip-offs-of-western-technologies-973280252

[Balu]

The Russian stuff is so old and broken down they would probably nuke Vladivostok instead of New York if they pushed the button.


The is a traditional Russian fun to destroy a shed in a shooting range in Kamchatka from Arkhangelsk. The construction battalion there is sick and tired to restore it permanently. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/laugh1.gif
So, DO NOT keep on trying to be silly. It stopped being funny. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/boredom.gif