Told ya so...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://wizbangblog.com/2015/06/08/guess-who-believed-in-peace-social-justice-womens-rights/

Home > 9/11 > Islam > Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights …
Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights … Michael Becker June 8, 2015 9/11, Islam 17 Comments
Women’s rights. Social Justice. Peace. Well, of course that would be none other than Muhammad. And if you have any questions about that there’s even a toll free number to call.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://wizbangblog.com/2015/06/08/guess-who-believed-in-peace-social-justice-womens-rights/

Home > 9/11 > Islam > Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights …
Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights … Michael Becker June 8, 2015 9/11, Islam 17 Comments
Women’s rights. Social Justice. Peace. Well, of course that would be none other than Muhammad. And if you have any questions about that there’s even a toll free number to call.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Just three short years ago I said this was coming and I was criticized all to hell and back by the usual type of suspects.
Now, here it comes--the propaganda and the lies, which will be backed by the obama government.-Tyr

[LongTermGuy]

Just three short years ago I said this was coming and I was criticized all to hell and back by the usual type of suspects.
Now, here it comes--the propaganda and the lies, which will be backed by the obama government.-Tyr


*Yup...live and learn for some brother...

[Max R.]

http://wizbangblog.com/2015/06/08/guess-who-believed-in-peace-social-justice-womens-rights/

Home > 9/11 > Islam > Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights …
Guess Who Believed in: Peace, Social Justice, Women’s Rights … Michael Becker June 8, 2015 9/11, Islam 17 Comments
Women’s rights. Social Justice. Peace. Well, of course that would be none other than Muhammad. And if you have any questions about that there’s even a toll free number to call.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/"That’s a billboard that’s been going up around the country in California (naturally), Florida, Chicago, and this one’s in Atlanta. They were put up by a group called the Islamic Circle of North America."


I haven't seen that one in Texas. OTOH, I did see one like this in Baton Rouge, LA:


http://zackhunt.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/god_billboard.jpg

[jimnyc]

Islam, talking about women's rights? Seriously? And they'll swear up and down that those abusing women are not real Muslims, and that Muhammed said to do blah blah blah with women. But the track record around the world, currently, is really all that matters when professing what they have/offer, and it's abysmal.

[LongTermGuy]

Islam, talking about women's rights? Seriously? And they'll swear up and down that those abusing women are not real Muslims, and that Muhammed said to do blah blah blah with women. But the track record around the world, currently, is really all that matters when professing what they have/offer, and it's abysmal.


*Agree...but...but..but...`some say` were supposed to love our neighbor....what then Jimmy....?:laugh:

[jimnyc]

*Agree...but...but..but...`some say` were supposed to love our neighbor....what then Jimmy....?:laugh:

"I love you neighbor, now stop beating your wife, or I will have to beat you next"

And if that doesn't work, move up the caliber level. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

"That’s a billboard that’s been going up around the country in California (naturally), Florida, Chicago, and this one’s in Atlanta. They were put up by a group called the Islamic Circle of North America."


I haven't seen that one in Texas. OTOH, I did see one like this in Baton Rouge, LA:


http://zackhunt.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/god_billboard.jpg

One billboard is the truth and as Jim pointed out the other one is a lie.
One must make the comparison between the two to understand that even in freedom of religion , lying is still to be condemned. And even more so deliberate lying propaganda to deceive the gullible and those "lost in the world".
No way to avoid making a judgment if that is followed to come to a conclusion.
Which one lies becomes paramount IMHO. -Tyr

[Max R.]

One billboard is the truth and as Jim pointed out the other one is a lie.
One must make the comparison between the two to understand that even in freedom of religion , lying is still to be condemned. And even more so deliberate lying propaganda to deceive the gullible and those "lost in the world".
No way to avoid making a judgment if that is followed to come to a conclusion.
Which one lies becomes paramount IMHO. -Tyr

Agreed about lying should be condemned.

As for labeling all Islam to be under one tent, I'm not so sure. I've seen a lot of atheists claim all Christians are alike and that's not true.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Agreed about lying should be condemned.

As for labeling all Islam to be under one tent, I'm not so sure. I've seen a lot of atheists claim all Christians are alike and that's not true.

The requirements in Islam are far , far more stringent and far far more less tolerant of any deviations. Islam enforces blind obedience to its dictates with extremely severe penalties for any form of rebellion. Christianity issues no such death penalties and severe repercussions.
What atheists claim about that which they hate does not mean a thing to me. Why should it?

If I disagree with their philosophy why should I care a whit about how they excuse it or use accusations too justify their faith in nothingness?
However Islam is largely under two tents neither of which differ in temperament and exercise of brutal punishments for transgressions, both Shia and Sunni are savage and extremely brutal, each will readily murder to please their version of Allah or any perceived insult against Allah, Mohamboy and /or the Koran!

As far as criticisms of its brutality and organized murdering campaigns go they can be judged equal in the evil and the blinded rage they love to live in..-Tyr

[Noir]

"That’s a billboard that’s been going up around the country in California (naturally), Florida, Chicago, and this one’s in Atlanta. They were put up by a group called the Islamic Circle of North America." I haven't seen that one in Texas. OTOH, I did see one like this in Baton Rouge, LA:

To quote the late Christopher Hitchens
“[Christianity] tells me to love my enemies. And I don’t do that and I don’t want you doing it for me either. Go love your own enemies. Don’t be loving mine. I’ll get on with the business of destroying, isolating, and combating the enemies of civilization.”

[Jeff]

I do love my neighbors, but I trust few. God also gave us a brain to now right from wrong, but yes we are to love our enemies, that doesn't mean in the sense y'all are taking it, love that human being and hope they will follow the right way. AS I said in another thread, God loves the sinner he hates the sin, Love the person be beware of what they are doing. God will judge them for there sins.

[Max R.]

The requirements in Islam are far , far more stringent and far far more less tolerant of any deviations. Islam enforces blind obedience to its dictates with extremely severe penalties for any form of rebellion. Christianity issues no such death penalties and severe repercussions.
What atheists claim about that which they hate does not mean a thing to me. Why should it?

If I disagree with their philosophy why should I care a whit about how they excuse it or use accusations too justify their faith in nothingness?
However Islam is largely under two tents neither of which differ in temperament and exercise of brutal punishments for transgressions, both Shia and Sunni are savage and extremely brutal, each will readily murder to please their version of Allah or any perceived insult against Allah, Mohamboy and /or the Koran!

As far as criticisms of its brutality and organized murdering campaigns go they can be judged equal in the evil and the blinded rage they love to live in..-Tyr
Disagreed. Adherents to Islam vary as much as Christians. There are many moderate Muslims. If you strictly followed the Bible, you'd be executing Newt Gingrich for adultery and Dennis Hastert for homosexuality. Not to mention we wouldn't be eating so much pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches and mudbug gumbo.

[Max R.]

I do love my neighbors, but I trust few. God also gave us a brain to now right from wrong, but yes we are to love our enemies, that doesn't mean in the sense y'all are taking it, love that human being and hope they will follow the right way. AS I said in another thread, God loves the sinner he hates the sin, Love the person be beware of what they are doing. God will judge them for there sins.
Agreed. Let God judge. Like the Tom Waits' song says "We're all gonna be just dirt in the ground". It's just a matter of time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm3LEmFFj2g

[Max R.]

To quote the late Christopher Hitchens
“[Christianity] tells me to love my enemies. And I don’t do that and I don’t want you doing it for me either. Go love your own enemies. Don’t be loving mine. I’ll get on with the business of destroying, isolating, and combating the enemies of civilization.”
The problem with that concept is the same as with the Law of the Instrument: "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".


Who defines "enemies of civilization"? Once this machine built for "the business of destroying, isolating, and combating the enemies of civilization" achieves it's mission, what happens afterward? Dismantle it?....or, more likely due to human nature, it will keep destroying, isolating and combating the enemies of those running the machine?

Hitchens was one of the "Four Horsemen of New Atheism" and a major proponent of militant atheism. I find that as disturbing as any militant religion be it ISIS or an Evangelical army.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Disagreed. Adherents to Islam vary as much as Christians. There are many moderate Muslims. If you strictly followed the Bible, you'd be executing Newt Gingrich for adultery and Dennis Hastert for homosexuality. Not to mention we wouldn't be eating so much pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches and mudbug gumbo.

No Christians strictly follow old testament. The New testament is Christianity. The old testament is recorded history and presented for many reasons, most important of which is to show man can not save himself by works or even faith alone as Salvation required the sacrifice of God's Son. Old testament law is about and shown to be how fruitless and vain is man's attempts to buy Salvation by his own efforts without the greatest sacrifice--that of Jesus Christ.

Adherents to Islam in both camps , Sunni and Shia practice and believe in the brutality and punishments that mohammad promoted and declared given to him by Allah.

Now can you give examples of Christians living by old testament laws and traditions--as thats the Jews doing that my friend , not Christians.
Yet there can be no denying what Sharia law is and how its practiced by those using it to govern their peoples. Both Sunni and Shia use it and they together are over 90% of Islam. -Tyr

[Max R.]

No Christians strictly follow old testament. The New testament is Christianity. The old testament is recorded history and presented for many reasons, most important of which is to show man can not save himself by works or even faith alone as Salvation required the sacrifice of God's Son. Old testament law is about and shown to be how fruitless and vain is man's attempts to buy Salvation by his own efforts without the greatest sacrifice--that of Jesus Christ.

Adherents to Islam in both camps , Sunni and Shia practice and believe in the brutality and punishments that mohammad promoted and declared given to him by Allah.

Now can you give examples of Christians living by old testament laws and traditions--as thats the Jews doing that my friend , not Christians.
Yet there can be no denying what Sharia law is and how its practiced by those using it to govern their peoples. Both Sunni and Shia use it and they together are over 90% of Islam. -Tyr
Nonetheless many, meaning mostly Baptists and Evangelicals, love to cherry-pick the OT to press a political agenda.

Let's not forget that Christianity is about 700 years older than Islam. Where was Christianity 700 years ago in terms of brutality, punishment and living the Old Testament? What was happening in Europe in the 1300s?

It was only a couple of hundred years ago we were still hanging and burning witches and heretics. That doesn't excuse current brutality, but it does point out a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Many Euro nations condemn the practice of the death penalty, yet we relish it in the US. How Christian is that?

Maria Barbara Carillo (http://jewishcurrents.org/may-18-the-inquisitions-oldest-victim-17673): The oldest victim of the Spanish Inquisition (http://jewishcurrents.org/september-20-auto-da-fe-2749), Maria Barbara Carillo, was burned at the stake for heresy in Madrid on this date in 1721. She was 95 years old. Carillo belonged to a large family of descendants of forcibly baptized Jews and was sentenced to death for heresy, for allegedly practicing Judaism in secret.

http://jewishcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/spanish_Inquisition.jpg

[jimnyc]

To quote the late Christopher Hitchens
“[Christianity] tells me to love my enemies. And I don’t do that and I don’t want you doing it for me either. Go love your own enemies. Don’t be loving mine. I’ll get on with the business of destroying, isolating, and combating the enemies of civilization.”

No condemnation of Islam's lies? I still find it extremely odd, your always chiming in about Christianity, and seemingly little to no interest about what Islam does around today's world.

[Noir]

No condemnation of Islam's lies? I still find it extremely odd, your always chiming in about Christianity, and seemingly little to no interest about what Islam does around today's world.

How many muslims are on this site to debate with?
If any are willing to come forward (as i am not aware are active on the forum) for a discussion , i will happily tell them how wrong i think they are.

[jimnyc]

How many muslims are on this site to debate with?
If any are willing to come forward (as i am not aware are active on the forum) for a discussion , i will happily tell them how wrong i think they are.

So you don't condemn the endless actions of muslims, and threads made here, because there are no muslims here? So you post whatever it is you do about Christianity, simply because Christians are here?

Just weird to me. I don't need a race/religion to be here to discuss things that have implications around the world. Weird that you were mostly silent while Jafar was a member here and dropped Islamic propaganda for so long. I don't doubt you disagree with Islam as a religion as well, but it seems like you target Christianity, with somewhat disinterest for Islam. But with one of those religions responsible for death and carnage around the world TODAY, I think that often your input is misguided. But whatever floats your boat, was mainly curious was all.

[Noir]

So you don't condemn the endless actions of muslims, and threads made here, because there are no muslims here? So you post whatever it is you do about Christianity, simply because Christians are here?

Ofcourse. You know when i use to post on muslim boards (before the inevitable bans) I didn't waste time on threads about christianity.
I also think this is the only board where i have been able to field questions to Mormons and free masons (i knew one IRL but never questioned him over it)
I think the only 'religion' I would actively post about without active users to debate with against would be Scientology.

[Drummond]

Disagreed. Adherents to Islam vary as much as Christians. There are many moderate Muslims. If you strictly followed the Bible, you'd be executing Newt Gingrich for adultery and Dennis Hastert for homosexuality. Not to mention we wouldn't be eating so much pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches and mudbug gumbo.

You weren't on here when we used to have a poster by the name of 'Jafar', were you ?

He was a dedicated sanitiser of Islam. A 'peaceful man'. 'Not' a terrorist enthusiast ... though he let slip, despite that propaganda, that he supported Hamas.

Challenged repeatedly on this, he never convincingly distanced himself from that support.

And then ... we found out why.

The 'peaceful man', at the time of the last major altercation between Hamas and Israel, suddenly 'started' arguing full square in favour of Hamas. Suddenly, he was blind to the terrorism Hamas kept inflicting, arguing the case for Hamas as strongly as he could. Interspersed between such pieces, we were treated to much anti-Israeli propaganda.

Hamas could do no wrong. Israel couldn't do anything right. And suddenly, though he'd never admit it in terms of a straight declaration, the 'peaceful Muslim' disappeared, and in his place a pro-Hamas mouthpiece emerged.

There was one 'moderate Muslim', tested by circumstances, who revealed the truth once the test came into being.

One of his anti-Israeli propaganda pieces he offered us was comprehensively proven bogus, right here on this board. Did Jafar acknowledge that ? Did he apologise ?

Nope .. HE WALKED. We'd not swallowed all his propaganda, so he disappeared. We've not seen him on here since.

So, then. Jafar, the moderate Muslim, arguing for Islam to be seen in moderate terms. When tested, the truth was remarkably different to the hype.

[Drummond]

Nonetheless many, meaning mostly Baptists and Evangelicals, love to cherry-pick the OT to press a political agenda.

Let's not forget that Christianity is about 700 years older than Islam. Where was Christianity 700 years ago in terms of brutality, punishment and living the Old Testament? What was happening in Europe in the 1300s?

It was only a couple of hundred years ago we were still hanging and burning witches and heretics. That doesn't excuse current brutality, but it does point out a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Many Euro nations condemn the practice of the death penalty, yet we relish it in the US. How Christian is that?

Maria Barbara Carillo (http://jewishcurrents.org/may-18-the-inquisitions-oldest-victim-17673): The oldest victim of the Spanish Inquisition (http://jewishcurrents.org/september-20-auto-da-fe-2749), Maria Barbara Carillo, was burned at the stake for heresy in Madrid on this date in 1721. She was 95 years old. Carillo belonged to a large family of descendants of forcibly baptized Jews and was sentenced to death for heresy, for allegedly practicing Judaism in secret.

http://jewishcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/spanish_Inquisition.jpg

There is one basic, and very simple truth, at work here which you have not addressed.

Those adherents to Christianity, today, have evolved in their behaviour, from what was true from centuries ago.

But - is that true of Islam ? Do Muslims reject parts of the Quran which refer back to barbarous times, OR, are Muslims taught that the Quran is too absolute an authoritative work for any such evolution to be possible ?

For all you'd argue about Christians of the past .. Christians don't organise themselves into terrorist cells. Muslims, however, DO ... and in many parts of the world.

Try drawing an insulting cartoon of Christ, and see how many death threats you get. Now try the same for the prophet Mohammed.

Or if you're not good at drawing cartoons, try naming one teddy bear 'Jesus'. And another one 'Mohammed'. Then comparing the responses you get.

If in doubt ... do research on a British teacher by the name of Gillian Gibbons. Find out what she suffered ....

[Jeff]

How many muslims are on this site to debate with?
If any are willing to come forward (as i am not aware are active on the forum) for a discussion , i will happily tell them how wrong i think they are.

[QUOTE=jimnyc;740884]So you don't condemn the endless actions of muslims, and threads made here, because there are no muslims here? So you post whatever it is you do about Christianity, simply because Christians are here?

Just weird to me. I don't need a race/religion to be here to discuss things that have implications around the world. Weird that you were mostly silent while Jafar was a member here and dropped Islamic propaganda for so long. I don't doubt you disagree with Islam as a religion as well, but it seems like you target Christianity, with somewhat disinterest for Islam. But with one of those religions responsible for death and carnage around the world TODAY, I think that often your input is misguided. But whatever floats your

Noir does seem to be on the opposite side of a lot of give me debates, and I offend wondered if he was doing so basically just to have a debate ( correct me if I am wrong Noir ) but I think Noir is extremely smart and just loves to debate no matter what side ( no not on all things but many )

[Jeff]

You weren't on here when we used to have a poster by the name of 'Jafar', were you ?

He was a dedicated sanitiser of Islam. A 'peaceful man'. 'Not' a terrorist enthusiast ... though he let slip, despite that propaganda, that he supported Hamas.

Challenged repeatedly on this, he never convincingly distanced himself from that support.

And then ... we found out why.

The 'peaceful man', at the time of the last major altercation between Hamas and Israel, suddenly 'started' arguing full square in favour of Hamas. Suddenly, he was blind to the terrorism Hamas kept inflicting, arguing the case for Hamas as strongly as he could. Interspersed between such pieces, we were treated to much anti-Israeli propaganda.

Hamas could do no wrong. Israel couldn't do anything right. And suddenly, though he'd never admit it in terms of a straight declaration, the 'peaceful Muslim' disappeared, and in his place a pro-Hamas mouthpiece emerged.

There was one 'moderate Muslim', tested by circumstances, who revealed the truth once the test came into being.

One of his anti-Israeli propaganda pieces he offered us was comprehensively proven bogus, right here on this board. Did Jafar acknowledge that ? Did he apologise ?

Nope .. HE WALKED. We'd not swallowed all his propaganda, so he disappeared. We've not seen him on here since.

So, then. Jafar, the moderate Muslim, arguing for Islam to be seen in moderate terms. When tested, the truth was remarkably different to the hype.

I do believe Max would of really enjoyed Jafar. Jafar wasn't stupid by no means, he just got real stupid when his side was thrown to the wolves, he kept trying to back Hamas and he was being eaten alive due to facts of what they where doing,

[Drummond]

[QUOTE=jimnyc;740884]So you don't condemn the endless actions of muslims, and threads made here, because there are no muslims here? So you post whatever it is you do about Christianity, simply because Christians are here?

Just weird to me. I don't need a race/religion to be here to discuss things that have implications around the world. Weird that you were mostly silent while Jafar was a member here and dropped Islamic propaganda for so long. I don't doubt you disagree with Islam as a religion as well, but it seems like you target Christianity, with somewhat disinterest for Islam. But with one of those religions responsible for death and carnage around the world TODAY, I think that often your input is misguided. But whatever floats your

Noir does seem to be on the opposite side of a lot of give me debates, and I offend wondered if he was doing so basically just to have a debate ( correct me if I am wrong Noir ) but I think Noir is extremely smart and just loves to debate no matter what side ( no not on all things but many )

Factor into this the fact that Noir is British, so will have had long-term exposure to a social environment riddled with PC imperatives recognised as 'the norm'. Written into this is an expectation of automatic deference towards 'minorities', on the understanding that it can't help but be 'progressive' to show such deference.

[Drummond]

I do believe Max would of really enjoyed Jafar. Jafar wasn't stupid by no means, he just got real stupid when his side was thrown to the wolves, he kept trying to back Hamas and he was being eaten alive due to facts of what they where doing,

How true.

Of course, though, we don't know Jafar's full circumstances. You never know. What if he had 'comrades' who had certain expectations of his activities here ?

Terrorist support and respect for freedom of thought don't mix too well ...

[Max R.]

I do believe Max would of really enjoyed Jafar. Jafar wasn't stupid by no means, he just got real stupid when his side was thrown to the wolves, he kept trying to back Hamas and he was being eaten alive due to facts of what they where doing,Yes, I would have. Maybe I could have persuaded him to see the error of his ways. :)

Yes, it's hard to defend a nation or a group when they are committing atrocities. In some instances, it's difficult to defend all of Israel's actions. OTOH, it's one thing to initiate a violent action and another to retaliate for one.

[Max R.]

You weren't on here when we used to have a poster by the name of 'Jafar', were you ?

He was a dedicated sanitiser of Islam. A 'peaceful man'. 'Not' a terrorist enthusiast ... though he let slip, despite that propaganda, that he supported Hamas.

Challenged repeatedly on this, he never convincingly distanced himself from that support.

And then ... we found out why.

The 'peaceful man', at the time of the last major altercation between Hamas and Israel, suddenly 'started' arguing full square in favour of Hamas. Suddenly, he was blind to the terrorism Hamas kept inflicting, arguing the case for Hamas as strongly as he could. Interspersed between such pieces, we were treated to much anti-Israeli propaganda.

Hamas could do no wrong. Israel couldn't do anything right. And suddenly, though he'd never admit it in terms of a straight declaration, the 'peaceful Muslim' disappeared, and in his place a pro-Hamas mouthpiece emerged.

There was one 'moderate Muslim', tested by circumstances, who revealed the truth once the test came into being.

One of his anti-Israeli propaganda pieces he offered us was comprehensively proven bogus, right here on this board. Did Jafar acknowledge that ? Did he apologise ?

Nope .. HE WALKED. We'd not swallowed all his propaganda, so he disappeared. We've not seen him on here since.

So, then. Jafar, the moderate Muslim, arguing for Islam to be seen in moderate terms. When tested, the truth was remarkably different to the hype.

If you are going to condemn a religion of 2 billion people for the actions of a relatively small percentage, then are all Christians secretly Westboro Baptists? Do all believe like Pat Robertson that the 200,000 who died in the Haitian earthquake deserved it because they made a pact with the Devil? How many people were killed and maimed in abortion clinic bombings? Will you become a soldier of the Army of God or are you already a member?

In the end, my main concern is one of national security; we need our Muslim allies if we are to win the war against proponents of radical Islam: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-needs-muslim-allies/2012/11/01/9a852950-22dd-11e2-8448-81b1ce7d6978_story.html

We currently have thousands of troops deployed and working with our Muslim allies. If people like you persist in bad-mouthing all Muslims, how can our troops gain the trust of our allies? Will their lives be put in danger by this talk?

How would the relationship of the US and Britain have been strained if, during WWII, most Americans were talking about how untrustworthy the Limeys were? How Anglicans have perverted Christianity and were blasphemers, a church founded by a murderous adulterer and all should be imprisoned? Do you think that would cause some problems on the battlefield, @Drummond?

Five Arab nations support US: http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-white-house-allies-syria-isis-20140923-story.html

A dilemma in Iraq: http://www.wsj.com/articles/after-ramadi-u-s-and-allies-face-dilemma-on-how-to-proceed-1432147743

[Noir]

Noir does seem to be on the opposite side of a lot of give me debates, and I offend wondered if he was doing so basically just to have a debate ( correct me if I am wrong Noir ) but I think Noir is extremely smart and just loves to debate no matter what side ( no not on all things but many )

For some issues I happily take contrarian viewpoints for fun and discussion, but never for the likes of religion.

[Jeff]

For some issues I happily take contrarian viewpoints for fun and discussion, but never for the likes of religion.

I agree Noir, I believe you just like to debate, your whit against another and the sides don't matter.