Big Government vs Efficient/Powerful Government

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, so I was reading through a thread, with another round of Drummond/FJ playing "Thatcherite" chicken, and I realized that there's a dissonance between the two as regards government, and it's pretty simple.

This got me to think about The Mountain from Game of Thrones, Here's a pic:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7288&stc=1

Yeah, the guy is wielding a 6' claymore one-handed, and can do so in full plate armor. He's actually 6'9" and 400 lbs. He's broken millenia old strength records. This represent strong/efficient government. There's not wasted space here, and he's capable of both power and speed. It's big, but the size is countered by it's efficiency of form.

That's... not what we have in America currently. The problem is a framing of the argument, in which we keep just saying Big vs. Small, instead of Fat vs. Lean. America's government is fat, and while it gets some power for its sheer bulk, the government is incapable of fast, efficient movement, and gets winded easily.

We need to reduce the bulk of government, because it is entirely too fat for its own effective purposes. With a leaner, more efficient governance, we could actually handle our affairs far more quickly, with a greater economy of motion. This effects all aspects of how our government, economy, and general lives function.

[Voted4Reagan]

If my Governmental Model is going to be from Game of Thrones... I'll take Smaller and more intelligent.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02906/tyrionjpg_2906028b.jpg

[fj1200]

Okay, so I was reading through a thread, with another round of Drummond/FJ playing "Thatcherite" chicken...

That's... not what we have in America currently. The problem is a framing of the argument, in which we keep just saying Big vs. Small, instead of Fat vs. Lean. America's government is fat, and while it gets some power for its sheer bulk, the government is incapable of fast, efficient movement, and gets winded easily.

I'm not playing chicken because I know I'm winning and unafraid of what's coming. ;)

Nevertheless I need to disagree with your premise. Government is not efficient because it lacks what drives efficiency which is competition. I do agree we have huge redundancies, read state AND federal levels, and that we could be more efficient but the basic question should be government be doing it in the first place? Answering that question should be first in addition to identifying the actual problems and not addressing symptoms.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Okay, so I was reading through a thread, with another round of Drummond/FJ playing "Thatcherite" chicken, and I realized that there's a dissonance between the two as regards government, and it's pretty simple.

This got me to think about The Mountain from Game of Thrones, Here's a pic:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7288&stc=1

Yeah, the guy is wielding a 6' claymore one-handed, and can do so in full plate armor. He's actually 6'9" and 400 lbs. He's broken millenia old strength records. This represent strong/efficient government. There's not wasted space here, and he's capable of both power and speed. It's big, but the size is countered by it's efficiency of form.

That's... not what we have in America currently. The problem is a framing of the argument, in which we keep just saying Big vs. Small, instead of Fat vs. Lean. America's government is fat, and while it gets some power for its sheer bulk, the government is incapable of fast, efficient movement, and gets winded easily.

We need to reduce the bulk of government, because it is entirely too fat for its own effective purposes. With a leaner, more efficient governance, we could actually handle our affairs far more quickly, with a greater economy of motion. This effects all aspects of how our government, economy, and general lives function.

Too fat, too big, too slow and lets not leave out the gorilla in the room-TOO CORRUPT!
Your OP was spot on. :beer:
We desperately need, smaller, leaner , faster and less corrupt leadership-- currently we get none of that, instead we get all of that sped up by the current government as if its on fire to get us to a party!--Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

Too fat, too big, too slow and lets not leave out the gorilla in the room-TOO CORRUPT!
Your OP was spot on. :beer:
We desperately need, smaller, leaner , faster and less corrupt leadership-- currently we get none of that, instead we get all of that sped up by the current government as if its on fire to get us to a party!--Tyr

Corruption, though, is a natural facet on an inefficient government. Even well meaning people with the best intentions will essentially need to go outside the bloated system to get anything meaningful done.

[revelarts]

i've noticed that people on the right like to talk about leaner gov't but continue to vote for those who increase the size and especially LOVE our FAT footprints overseas. Romney didn't want to even try to remove Obama care he wanted to "Fix it".
But most so called small/lean gov't cheerleaders voted for Romney. and are upset with those that didn't.
Romney loved the patriot act and the NEW TSA and the NEW blotted homeland security depts. Loved spying without warrants and wanted to do more. He didn't propose to end any bureau or dept.. Wanted to double the size of gitmo, increase the corrupt fat/pork laden military budget. And increase the number of troops by 100,000 so we could fight 2 wars at a time with ease, not sure how he was planning on a balanced budget with that. He flip flopped on the auto bailouts. some days he sorta for it, some days not , one day he said Obama had taken his Advice on it.

Not more Lean or small gov't by any standard i understand.
Bottom line, underneath the talk most Rs love a big fat gov't that walks the earth shaking the ground.
But while buying new fat dresses love to talk as if they are going on a diet every election year while making new list of goodies to load into the gov't grocery basket.
And get offended and shocked when people say she's just as FAT as the Ds, or are handed a free gym membership.
"i'm not fat, i'm just big boned and muscle, plus if i lose to much weight we'll DIE!"

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Corruption, though, is a natural facet on an inefficient government. Even well meaning people with the best intentions will essentially need to go outside the bloated system to get anything meaningful done.

A vicious cycle indeed, as corruption is a great and meaningful part of the how and why it is so inefficient. The system punishes that going around it...
A great part of why we conservatives scream out about corruption in the vote and corruption in the lobbying system. Billions in corruption, kickbacks , redundancy and inefficiency start to add up yearly. -Tyr