Putin opponent near death in suspected poisoning

[Jeff]

OK so the Russian government is fair I have been seeing in different threads as of late, Putin didn't steal the election I have read. Well it looks as though if you aren't on Putin's side you get gunned down or poisoned, yup sounds like a jam up place to me. :rolleyes:


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4264746569001&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch the latest video at <a href="http://video.foxnews.com">video.foxnews.com</a></noscript>



An outspoken opponent of Russian President Vladimir Putin was near death Friday from an apparent poisoning just three months after his close political ally was gunned down near the Kremlin, and supporters want him evacuated to Europe or Israel to determine what sickened him.
Vladimir Kara-Murza Jr., who has long been based in Washington, was in a hotel in Moscow when he suddenly lost consciousness May 26 and was hospitalized with what his wife called "symptoms of poisoning." The 33-year-old is a coordinator for Open Russia, a nongovernmental organization which on the previous day released a documentary film accusing close Putin crony and Chechen strongman Ramzan Kadyrov of human rights abuses including torture and murder.




http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/29/kremlin-opponent-near-death-family-suspects-poisoning/?intcmp=latestnews

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

OK so the Russian government is fair I have been seeing in different threads as of late, Putin didn't steal the election I have read. Well it looks as though if you aren't on Putin's side you get gunned down or poisoned, yup sounds like a jam up place to me. :rolleyes:


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4264746569001&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch the latest video at <a href="http://video.foxnews.com">video.foxnews.com</a></noscript>





http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/29/kremlin-opponent-near-death-family-suspects-poisoning/?intcmp=latestnews

Putin is former KGB, those guys were totally ruthless with a capital R.
"GUNNED DOWN OR POISONED, no problem, we do it all, says the Putin regime."
I give him this, if or when he decides the end the muslim problem there he'll do it efficiently and not give a damn about any objections the lying piece of shat obama may voice.
I hand it to him for that, at least he is a man.. even if a very ruthless one.. --Tyr

[revelarts]

Putin is a dictator.
Elected like Mubarak, Ghadafi, Kim Jong Un, Assad and others from the past 75 years
He just give a slightly better thin veneer of legitimacy to it.

[Balu]

OK so the Russian government is fair I have been seeing in different threads as of late, Putin didn't steal the election I have read. Well it looks as though if you aren't on Putin's side you get gunned down or poisoned, yup sounds like a jam up place to me. :rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/29/kremlin-opponent-near-death-family-suspects-poisoning/?intcmp=latestnews

The same information in Russian mass-media but without without political hysteria.

(machine translation)
Kara-Murza was taken to hospital after an overdose of antidepressants.

Moscow, May 28. Journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza recently received a lot of antidepressants, which could cause a sharp deterioration in his health. This was stated by the father of journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza senior.

Father Politician told on the air "Echo Moskvy" that the son took the news hard about the death of Boris Nemtsov, then "sat down" on antidepressants. "Do not tell anyone, and their number exceeded that rate, which the kidney is held," - said Kara-Murza. He added that doctors adhere to this version....

According to some media, another probable cause to date, called the possible incompatibility of drugs that took journalist.

Doctors have now solved the question of the transfer of a journalist in one of the foreign clinics. While transporting prevents unstable state Kara-Murza, said his father.

Recall May 27, 33-year-old journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza was taken to City Clinical Hospital №1 named after Pirogov in critical condition. Doctors are establishing source of poisoning.

http://riafan.ru/293390-kara-murza-popal-v-bolnitsu-posle-peredozirovki-antidepressantami-otets/

Let us come a bit deeper. Several words about "Open Russia"

"...This first incarnation of Open Russia has been described by The Guardian as a charity organization.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-guard-2) Its board included Henry Kissinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger) and Lord Jacob Rothschild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-4) According to the Moscow Times, the earlier incarnation of Open Russia funded “many philanthropic projects, including educational projects for young people, the Federation of Internet Education, the Club of Regional Journalism and projects of human rights ...

...Open Russia was re-launched on September 20, 2014, as “a nationwide community platform designed to bring together all Russians interested in creating a better life for themselves and their children.”[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-khod-1) The relaunch was announced at an “opening videoconference that linked civil society activists in ten cities across Russia—from Kaliningrad to Tomsk.”[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-world-7)..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia

In a political field of Russia they are NOBODY to pay attention to.




(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-5)

[Balu]

Putin is a dictator.
Elected like Mubarak, Ghadafi, Kim Jong Un, Assad and others from the past 75 years
He just give a slightly better thin veneer of legitimacy to it.
Would you prove what you've said, or you will to repeat your propaganda words?

[revelarts]

"Open Russia" is backed by Kissinger a Rothschild?!:facepalm99:


the whole world is run by oligarchs of some stripe.
the U.S.'s veneer of Democracy is the best of all.

[Kathianne]

While his father may be downplaying the possibility of poisoning, his wife is not:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/29/putin-critic-hospitalized-wife-wants-full-toxicolo/


Putin critic hospitalized; wife wants ‘full toxicology testing’ done outside Russia

A leading critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin was hospitalized with kidney failure one day after releasing a documentary on corruption and human rights abuses in the republic of Chechnya.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Jr. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/vladimir-kara-murza-jr/), 33, a former ally of slain Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/boris-nemtsov/), is unconscious after undergoing treatment for kidney failure. He was admitted to Moscow’s Pirogov 1st City Hospital on May 26, Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty reported Friday.

Mr. Kara-Murza (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/vladimir-kara-murza-jr/)’s wife Yevgenia said her husband shows “symptoms of poisoning” and wants him transported to “to a medical center in Europe or Israel where full toxicology testing and treatment can be done,” RFE/RL reported (http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-kara-murza-hospitalized-evacuation/27041835.html).

The lead doctor at the hospital, Aleksei Svet, said the activist could not be transported, adding that Mr. Kara-Murza (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/vladimir-kara-murza-jr/) was likely suffering from “severe bout of pancreatitis and, possibly, double-sided pneumonia,” Interfax reported Friday.

Doctors said he may have taken too many antidepressants in the wake of Boris Nemtsov (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/boris-nemtsov/)’s death.
Mr. Kara-Murza (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/vladimir-kara-murza-jr/)’s father, Vladimir Sr., shied away from talk of foul play.


“There is no criminal case so far, none has been opened because [my son] is simply a normal patient who arrived at a Moscow hospital by ambulance,” he said, RFE/RL reported.

British diplomats are working to have the hospitalized activist, who works the NGO Open Russia, medically evacuated from Russia (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/russia/), a source told RFE/RL. Mr. Kara-Murza (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/vladimir-kara-murza-jr/) has dual Russian-British citizenship.






It looks as if he is too near death to be moved, but there is a history of strange deaths in relation to those whom cross Putin:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/putins-russia-dont-walk-dont-eat-and-dont-drink


<time datetime="20150528" itemprop="datePublished" content="2015-05-28" style="margin: 0px 0px 6px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1.3rem; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.3rem; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline-block;">MAY 28, 2015 </time>Putin’s Russia: Don’t Walk, Don’t Eat, and Don’t Drink

BY MASHA GESSEN (http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/masha-gessen)



Last Saturday, on a beautiful, sunny afternoon, a friend and I were in Moscow discussing precautions. I confessed to a fear of apartment-building entryways because two people I knew, the parliament member Galina Starovoitova and the journalist Anna Politkovskaya, had been shot dead on their way up to their apartments. “Ever since Nemtsov was killed,” my friend said, referring to the February shooting of a Putin opponent (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-battle-for-flowers-on-nemtsov-bridge), “I don’t know anything about precautions anymore. What are you supposed not to do now—walk the streets?”

It would also be prudent now to stop eating and drinking. On Wednesday, Vladimir Kara-Murza, a thirty-three-year-old opposition journalist, was hospitalized in critical condition after he collapsed at his office in Moscow. He was diagnosed with renal failure that had resulted from acute intoxication. Put more simply, some sort of poison was causing Kara-Murza’s illness.



His father, recounting his conversations with Kara-Murza’s doctors, has stressed that they do not know exactly what caused the intoxication (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/27/russian-opposition-activist-vladimir-kara-murza-in-hospital-after-falling-ill), but Kara-Murza’s wife and others have said that they suspect foul play. Assuming foul play, it is not clear when and how Kara-Murza may have been poisoned.*

Russian activists and journalists who get enough death threats and take them sufficiently seriously to hire bodyguards are also usually careful about what they ingest. Soon after the chess champion Garry Kasparov (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/10/01/the-tsars-opponent) quit the sport to go into politics full time, in 2004, he hired a team of eight bodyguards, who not only accompanied him everywhere but also carried drinking water and food for Kasparov to eat at meals shared in public. Three years ago, Kasparov told me that what he liked most about foreign travel was being able to shed his bodyguards for a while. A year after that, threats drove him to leave Russia permanently.


Attacks by poisoning are possibly even more common in Russia than assassinations by gunfire. Most famously, Alexander Litvinenko, a secret-police whistle-blower, was killed by polonium in London, in 2006. Last week, British newspapers reported that a Russian businessman who dropped dead while jogging in a London suburb in 2012 had been killed by a rare plant poison. He had been a key witness (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/01/29/kremlin-inc) in a money-laundering case that had originally been exposed by the Moscow accountant Sergei Magnitsky, who was tortured to death, in 2009, in a Russian jail.

Two years before Politkovskaya was shot, she suffered multiple-organ failure after ingesting a poison, still unidentified, with tea served to her on a Russian plane. Yuri Shchekochikhin, her colleague at the investigative weekly Novaya Gazeta, died in a Moscow hospital, in 2003, as the result of an apparent poisoning. In 2008, a lawyer who specializes in bringing Russian cases to the European Court of Human Rights, Karinna Moskalenko, fell ill in Strasbourg; her husband and two small children were also unwell. The cause of their illness was identified as mercury that had somehow found its way into their car.

Moskalenko was one of the lead lawyers in the defense of Mikhail Khodorkovsky (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/12/remote-control-2), an oil tycoon who had become Putin’s most famous political prisoner. He spent ten years behind bars before Putin granted him clemency before the Sochi Olympics; he is now living in Zurich and running an anti-Putin N.G.O., Open Russia, with offices in London, Prague, and Moscow. Last month, the Moscow office was raided by law enforcement, which seized many of the computers. (Some have since been returned.) Kara-Murza runs Open Russia’s multi-city public-lecture program—a difficult job, because most cities in Russia try to shut down his events. The organization itself has so far escaped being shut down because, on paper, it doesn’t exist: using a loophole in the law, it has simply not registered—and hence cannot be liquidated the way many other Russian N.G.O.s have been in the past three years.

Like the Soviet regime before it, the Putin government spreads fear by destroying the illusion that one can protect oneself. So Open Russia’s leaders think that they can use a loophole in the law to keep themselves safe? the message seems to be. Let’s see how safe they feel after one of them is poisoned.

...

[Balu]

"Open Russia" is backed by Kissinger a Rothschild?!:facepalm99:
the whole world is run by oligarchs of some stripe.
the U.S.'s veneer of Democracy is the best of all.
This is not a Democracy. This a way of US interference. And to avoid it the recent Laws were adopted in Russia.
If you have only known what a howl raised the so-called non-systemic opposition when they were ordered to designate itself as a Foreign agents in case they are sponsored from abroad.
For details I would suggest you to read "From Dictatorship to Democracy " authored by Gene Sharp. It is a very interesting thing. I bet you like it.

[Gunny]

The same information in Russian mass-media but without without political hysteria.

(machine translation)
Kara-Murza was taken to hospital after an overdose of antidepressants.

Moscow, May 28. Journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza recently received a lot of antidepressants, which could cause a sharp deterioration in his health. This was stated by the father of journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza senior.

Father Politician told on the air "Echo Moskvy" that the son took the news hard about the death of Boris Nemtsov, then "sat down" on antidepressants. "Do not tell anyone, and their number exceeded that rate, which the kidney is held," - said Kara-Murza. He added that doctors adhere to this version....

According to some media, another probable cause to date, called the possible incompatibility of drugs that took journalist.

Doctors have now solved the question of the transfer of a journalist in one of the foreign clinics. While transporting prevents unstable state Kara-Murza, said his father.

Recall May 27, 33-year-old journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza was taken to City Clinical Hospital №1 named after Pirogov in critical condition. Doctors are establishing source of poisoning.

http://riafan.ru/293390-kara-murza-popal-v-bolnitsu-posle-peredozirovki-antidepressantami-otets/

Let us come a bit deeper. Several words about "Open Russia"

"...This first incarnation of Open Russia has been described by The Guardian as a charity organization.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-guard-2) Its board included Henry Kissinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger) and Lord Jacob Rothschild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-4) According to the Moscow Times, the earlier incarnation of Open Russia funded “many philanthropic projects, including educational projects for young people, the Federation of Internet Education, the Club of Regional Journalism and projects of human rights ...

...Open Russia was re-launched on September 20, 2014, as “a nationwide community platform designed to bring together all Russians interested in creating a better life for themselves and their children.”[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-khod-1) The relaunch was announced at an “opening videoconference that linked civil society activists in ten cities across Russia—from Kaliningrad to Tomsk.”[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-world-7)..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia

In a political field of Russia they are NOBODY to pay attention to.




(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Russia#cite_note-5)

Without political hysteria? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You guys put the "yellow" in "yellow journalism". Worse, people like YOU believe it. The American left would be proud of you.

[Balu]

While his father may be downplaying the possibility of poisoning, his wife is not:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/29/putin-critic-hospitalized-wife-wants-full-toxicolo/


It looks as if he is too near death to be moved, but there is a history of strange deaths in relation to those whom cross Putin:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/putins-russia-dont-walk-dont-eat-and-dont-drink

If your drink from a dirty issue do not wonder why you got diarrhea. (c)

Masha Gessen

Maria Alexandrovna Gessen (Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): Мари́я Алекса́ндровна Ге́ссен; <small>IPA: </small>[maˈrʲijə ɐlʲɪkˈsandrəvnəˈɡʲesʲɪn] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Russian); born 13 January 1967), better known as Masha Gessen, is a Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians) and American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans) journalist, author, and activist noted for her opposition to Russian President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Russian_Federation) Vladimir Putin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin). Gessen identifies as a lesbian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian) and has written extensively on LGBT rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights) and help founded the Pink Triangle Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pink_Triangle_Campaign&action=edit&redlink=1). She has been described as "Russia's leading LGBT rights activist"[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen#cite_note-UNC-2) and has said herself that for many years she was "probably the only publicly out gay person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_out) in the whole country."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen#cite_note-Hayes-3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen

[revelarts]

Would you prove what you've said, or you will to repeat your propaganda words?

It could take some time.
But i'd briefly say first that Putin has been in control since 1999. that's TOO long by western standards at least.
Even when president Medvedev was in office Putin was STILL known to be the leader of the country. Medvedev was understood to be a puppet.
And i get the impression that Putin has zero real challenge to his political will within the Russian government. No congress or parliament or courts that can effectively stop any actions he proposes. The government controls the media so that the general tone is fixed pro government and pro Putin and anything that slips by can be reigned in or ridden out.

And then there are string of dead and jailed political opponents. Plus those ruined finically or otherwise who in some way went against Putin.
all coincidence and propaganda?

I'm not saying that he's a completely selfish and corrupt dictator. Or that he doesn't have Russia's interest in mind. Or that he has zero concern for the Russian people. I suspect he does. But even a completely benevolent dictator is still IN FACT a dictator.

I'll ask you a simple question.
Do you see a day where Putin can be simply "voted" out of power if he still wants control?

[Kathianne]

If your drink from a dirty issue do not wonder why you got diarrhea. (c)

Masha Gessen

Maria Alexandrovna Gessen (Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): Мари́я Алекса́ндровна Ге́ссен; <small>IPA: </small>[maˈrʲijə ɐlʲɪkˈsandrəvnəˈɡʲesʲɪn] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Russian); born 13 January 1967), better known as Masha Gessen, is a Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians) and American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans) journalist, author, and activist noted for her opposition to Russian President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Russian_Federation) Vladimir Putin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin). Gessen identifies as a lesbian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian) and has written extensively on LGBT rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights) and help founded the Pink Triangle Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pink_Triangle_Campaign&action=edit&redlink=1). She has been described as "Russia's leading LGBT rights activist"[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen#cite_note-UNC-2) and has said herself that for many years she was "probably the only publicly out gay person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_out) in the whole country."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen#cite_note-Hayes-3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen

Ok, not sure what that has to do with anything, other than deflection...

[Gunny]

Ok, not sure what that has to do with anything, other than deflection...

Whew. I thought it was just me. :laugh:

Neither Russian has answered a direct question with a direct answer. Yet.

[Balu]

It could take some time.
But i'd briefly say first that Putin has been in control since 1999. that's TOO long by western standards at least.


Let us be precise. Putin was a President since 2000 till 2008. Then, he was elected again in 2012, and according to our Constitution he has a right to be elected during next election.
As to your western standards, try to apply them to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who, violating your Constitution was elected by Americans for four periods in a row.

[Kathianne]

Let us be precise. Putin was a President since 2000 till 2008. Then, he was elected again in 2012, and according to our Constitution he has a right to be elected during next election.
As to your western standards, try to apply them to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who, violating your Constitution was elected by Americans for four periods in a row.


Again, more deflection and weaseling out of conversation. BTW, that amendment to the constitution was added after FDR's 4th term election-not before.

[Gunny]

Let us be precise. Putin was a President since 2000 till 2008. Then, he was elected again in 2012, and according to our Constitution he has a right to be elected during next election.
As to your western standards, try to apply them to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who, violating your Constitution was elected by Americans for four periods in a row.

Deflection. Roosevelt saw it as prudent to not have a different Commander in Chief during a world war. One of the few decisions he made I agreed with.

It was not law until AFTER Roosevelt that a President could serve only 2 terms consecutively, so, there was no violation of our Constitution. The 22nd Amendment was passed in 1947 and ratified by the states in 1951.

Try again.

You want to go history with me and Kath and you best button up that chinstrap. Gonna be a rough landing.

[Balu]

Ok, not sure what that has to do with anything, other than deflection...
Her attitude towards authorities formed up their attitude to Gays and lesbians popularization in Russia. And an offended person can not be impartial, plus the American journalist must be in American mass-media main stream, otherwise s/he will loose a job.

[Gunny]

Her attitude towards authorities formed up their attitude to Gays and lesbians popularization in Russia. And an offended person can not be impartial, plus the American journalist must be in American mass-media main stream, otherwise s/he will loose a job.

I'm trying to figure out y'all came out of WWII in one piece. Focus is NOT your strong suit. You deflect from topic to nonsensical, unrelated topic and never address anything that's been posted in response to your last nonsensical, unrelated topic.

[Kathianne]

Her attitude towards authorities formed up their attitude to Gays and lesbians popularization in Russia. And an offended person can not be impartial, plus the American journalist must be in American mass-media main stream, otherwise s/he will loose a job.

Huh? You mean like she lost her job via Putin in Russia, then turned him down when he re-offered it?

You really are trying to change the topic from the article to the author. Not happening-which means while you are free to do so, it is seen and your reputation is diminished.

[revelarts]

Let us be precise. Putin was a President since 2000 till 2008. Then, he was elected again in 2012, and according to our Constitution he has a right to be elected during next election.
As to your western standards, try to apply them to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who, violating your Constitution was elected by Americans for four periods in a row.

you avoided my points,
But Roosevelt broke the tradition started by George Washington not the constitution.
Washington started it because he didn't want it to appear that he was a king or dictator.
And as Kathianne mentioned the U.S. constitution was changed so that wouldn't happen again.

Any changes in the Russian constitution coming to stop Putin Balu?

and you didn't really reply to the rest or answer my final question.
Is there any legislative or court power that can effectively and decisively DEFY Putins will? yes or no.
And if Putins wants to stay in power (not office) will a simple election really remove him?

I get the feeling you didn't reply to that because Putin's a dictator, who finally controls the courts and the legislature, and he's not leaving power until he feels like it.

[Balu]

Deflection. Roosevelt saw it as prudent to not have a different Commander in Chief during a world war. One of the few decisions he made I agreed with.

It was not law until AFTER Roosevelt that a President could serve only 2 terms consecutively, so, there was no violation of our Constitution. The 22nd Amendment was passed in 1947 and ratified by the states in 1951.

Try again.
You want to go history with me and Kath and you best button up that chinstrap. Gonna be a rough landing.

You are right. This Amendment came into force in 1951. In other words before 1951 you considered four times presidential period democratic and corresponding of YOUR standards. Tel me, why you expect everybody consider and follow ALL YOUR standards? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif

[Kathianne]

You are right. This Amendment came into force in 1951. In other words before 1951 you considered four times presidential period democratic and corresponding of YOUR standards. Tel me, why you expect everybody consider and follow ALL YOUR standards? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif

Again, deflection. You picked one line out of Rev's post, then ran with it. He did say something to the effect of current Western standards, but again it's just a deflection.

I do not care how long Putin has served or will serve. That is up to your people, upon that we agree.

NOW will you get back to the topic?

[Gunny]

You are right. This Amendment came into force in 1951. In other words before 1951 you considered four times presidential period democratic and corresponding of YOUR standards. Tel me, why you expect everybody consider and follow ALL YOUR standards? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif

Another deflection? The 22nd Amendment is US Law. It applies to US citizens. What's the matter? Did I burst the bubble on one of your favorite yet erroneous arguments?

I don't care what you do but don't piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'. A lot of things happen prior to laws being written. The stability of the government was paramount during WWII. We bailed your asses out. Period. If the US had not provided Russia with materiel, y'all would be speaking in deutsch.

And you best be glad Roosevelt died and that wimp Truman took over or your asses would have gotten kicked into the Bering Sea.

[Balu]

you avoided my points,
But Roosevelt broke the tradition started by George Washington not the constitution.
And as Kathianne mentioned the U.S. constitution was changed so that wouldn't happen again.

Any changes in the Russian constitution coming to stop Putin Balu?

and you didn't really reply to the rest or answer my final question.
Is there any legislative or court power that can effectively and decisively DEFY Putins will? yes or no.
And if Putins wants to stay in power (not office) will a simple election really remove him?

I get the feeling you didn't answer because Putin's a dictator, who finally controls the courts and the legislature, and he's not leaving power until he feels like it.

It is very difficult for me to tell you our Constitution stipulating the responsibility of every State Authority.
I'd better give you a link.

http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-01.htm

[Gunny]

It is very difficult for me to tell you our Constitution stipulating the responsibility of every State Authority.
I'd better give you a link.

http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-01.htm

You're just the same old USSR. You just call yourself something different and think that changes things.

[revelarts]

It is very difficult for me to tell you our Constitution stipulating the responsibility of every State Authority.
I'd better give you a link.http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-01.htm

Balu your silence to the rest of my question is speaking very loudly.