A Personal Message

[John V]

A little bit of information. There’s a rumour going round that I’m some sort of Liberal professor. Here are some facts. I was born on a council estate in the UK, (U.S. equivalent of project housing) and I did my version of a UK ‘Protect and Serve’ for many years in Germany as part of BAOR and fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland. Wounded and discharged (petrol bomb), I decided to invest in myself and spent many years at various universities. I wasn’t bought up, I crawled up and it’s that strength of character, belief in God and maintaining traditional values and morals that I believe enabled me to get where I am today. There is no silver spoon in my mouth, it’s called social mobility, being independent and staying well away from government dependency.

I came here to post, hopefully to debate and most of the people I’ve met here I’ve no problem with, or I think they with me. We plod along, all with our different views, but I made what appears to be a mistake in saying who I am and what I do. That apparently didn’t go down well with a small clique, who took offence at a social and political science teacher on a political forum ‘telling’ them about political science. On hindsight, I suspect it upset the equilibrium of those small few having a monopoly on political thought and definitions and I’ve already had all the, you’re not here to teach us, you’re stupid and arrogant and we know more than you.

When you take your car to the garage and the mechanic tells you it’s not the battery that’s at fault, as you first thought, but an expensive gasket head replacement, do you think he’s a liar?
If a doctor says you have tonsillitis, do you think he’s stupid because in your opinion he’s wrong?
If a Social and Political Science teacher tells you that Obama is a cultural Marxist and that his views (and those of whom he surrounds himself with), can be traced back to the pre-war Frankfurt school (German Institute for Social Research), is that arrogance?

Politics is part of political science; it’s a science, not a belief system. Of course, there are opinions on the implementation of ideologies and their adaptations and it’s why we have, ‘so and so is better than s/he is’, but all ideologies in the world arise from source and it’s that source of science that I attempt to link my own writings to. You gain knowledge of the source and you get a much clearer idea of what lies ahead.

I started by writing about who I am, then went on to explain my views and put up a few easy reading threads about every day topics. That would have evolved into more complex writings on subjects such as socialism in the U.S. (no, it’s not probably what many of you think it is which why Obama has been able to disguise it so well), or progressivism and the ‘dumbing down’ period you’re now going through and based on progressivism, what comes next . . . What it is, how it arose, who’s behind it and its purpose . . . Believe me, Social science is not as simple as U.S. Democrat v Republican, or UK Labour v Conservatives and it’s a lack of social and political science knowledge that makes it so easy for the politicians to, using an Americanism, do a number on so many.

Having said all that, unless I get some support here and you all help to reign in the few idiots, I’m not prepared to waste my time here getting abuse and personal insults. Whatever your line of work is, would you spend your time explaining it to such a hostile audience? I’ve already been told on the threads I’m a trouble maker and to go way – it’s your call forum, you decide.

[fj1200]

Here are some facts.

...I’m a trouble maker and to go way...

The knuckleheads aren't particularly big on facts. That's also how they deal with those who dare having a different opinion.

[indago]

A little bit of information. There’s a rumour going round that I’m some sort of Liberal professor.... etc.

There's a Whine'nSnivel Thread:

Whine'nSnivel Thread (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-The-aboutime-and-Gunny-Snivel-Thread)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

05-23-2015, 05:11 AM #1 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Default On modern social liberal elites
Champagne socialists
Liberals are found in abundance in the media, the professions, the arts, and music. They entertain, they inform, they organize and appropriate the profit made. Al Gore made his fortune by telling the world about global warming/climate change. Oprah Winfrey entertains millions and Obama is estimated to be worth $12.2m, a successful achievement for a former political activist. Soros, Madoff . . . none of these people produced anything that benefits society, but are super rich liberals. The Liberal elite are parasitic in nature and it’s why they remain largely conspicuous from strong wealth producing nations. The west, with a collapsing economy, human rights and an emphasis on diversity and equality is an ideal breeding ground for parasites.

How is it then that an ideology that promotes sharing and equality produces government leaders of the liberal movement who are themselves super rich? Why are liberals found in affluent areas and not in ghettos? Why are some of the richest people in America, Buffett, Gates, Winfrey, liberals?

Capitalist wealth
Capitalists do things; they manufacture and sell products. Liberals did not build cars and the food we consume wasn’t packaged and sold by a liberal professional class, or those on welfare. As manufacturing declines and businesses fail, the middle class shrinks. Wealth necessitates distribution by taxation, laws and regulations, which give the former capitalist illusion of prosperity, but is simply a redistribution of what already exists and not creation. Liberals create ideas and schemes and always, without exception, those which further the appropriation of those who produce.

Socialist wealth
Socialism shares similar values to communism, in the context that the State sees itself as above the individual as a distributor of private wealth. Gradually, it replaces the absolute monarchies of old, but becomes a similar entity above that of society as the same undisputable controlling force of monarchism, which it replaced. In a dependent society, a small collection of distributors eventually comes more important than those elected to represent them. Margaret Thatcher once made the observation, ‘‘The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.’’
The Liberal elite don’t create or produce; they move into areas of wealth creation and appropriate the existing wealth. It is why the more affluent areas attract liberals and why places like Silicon Valley and Florida are attractive to liberals and the urban ghettos are safely micro managed from a distance. The Wild West was not tamed by liberals and no Union ever built a factory, but the profits made attract a liberal parasitic class.

Success in any area of enterprise attracts liberals, who are voted in with promises of equal sharing and who then proceed to dismantle the success with taxation and laws and is why one never sees a rich socialist country, or one with a small government.

The New old Order
Eventually and entirely predictively, without wealth creation and the resulting high tax revenue needed to support socialism, economies start to collapse. Borrowing and printing money is no longer an option, interest rates start to climb, national debt can no longer be serviced and at this point, the socialist government starts to nationalize basic essentials (ACA), prepares the police for the possible backlash (militarization) and makes ready places for large-scale dissent (FEMA). The end game is what H. G. Wells termed Liberal fascism, otherwise known as progressivism, using cultural Marxism as a dumbing down tool to facilitate that change.
Progressivism is simply a revolution by the elite, disguised as equality, seconded by liberals and voted in by the masses.

Quotes on the elite
i.‘‘We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.’’
Jean-Claude Juncker, (2012), current President of the European Commission, the executive branch of the European Union.

ii.‘‘Britons are too ignorant about Europe to vote in a referendum on the subject’’, a top Brussels official claimed last night. ‘‘Seventy per cent of the laws in this country are co-decided by the European Parliament.’’
Viviane Reding, (2014), vice-president of the European Commission.

iii.Baldwin, S, ‘Obama Surrounds Himself with the Most Extreme Appointees in American History’, The Western Centre for Journalism.

iv.‘‘The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.’’ (Thomas Sowell)

John V, 2015, ‘The Modern Social Liberal’, ‘Modern Social Liberal elites’, p5, in http://www.academia.edu/11730219/The...Social_Liberal



Last edited by John V; 05-23-2015 at 05:16 AM.
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05-23-2015, 02:57 AM #1 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Default The problem with ideologies
I think and perhaps I’ll attract criticism here, but generally many Americans have a harder time understanding practicalities than Europeans because they’ve never seen the results of theories that sound nice put into practice. Communism, Nazism, Socialism, Fascism . . . Europe’s had it all and the place is one big graveyard as a result. In the 20th century particularly, Europeans slaughtered each other with ideas they got from the same books the Democrat progressives are getting their ideas from now.


We talk of communism and there follows a series of quotes. “Yes, but what about the dictatorship that follows and the 100’s of millions in mass graves and the concentration camp Gulags . . . ?“ There’s follows a silence and quotes again telling us how wonderful it would be – next time.

Anarchism is the same. Abolish authority with its rules and regulations and it will be replaced by, nothing. Out of nothing, will arise new rules and regulations, which will produce the survival of the fittest. “ No it won’t because it says in a book I read . . . “ Even when presented with examples, there’s still a reluctance to believe. Take the police off the streets of America for one week and see what happens without any authority and rules.

You’ve now got Socialism. Yet what happens when there comes a time that there are more people are on welfare than those paying for them and the government starts to cut back as they are doing across Europe? “We’ll take it off the rich”, they say. Good idea and what happens when they’ve spent it all and there’s no one left to produce more, because those with wealth have run off to other countries taking their wealth that they now pay taxes on with them? The ‘books’ the socialists are reading don’t mention that – they presume and assume, because the ideas, when written, hadn’t yet been put into practice.


Capitalism and the freedom inherent within it produces inequalities, it doesn’t distribute wealth fairly and it doesn’t promise a Utopia. What it does do is allow you to own the computer you’re now on and prevents others from taking it from you. It also prevents you from taking it off others. It feeds you, whether you’re working or on welfare, because it allows you or others to produce a profit to pay for it. It allows you to buy medical care if you work, or provides it free for you if you can’t . . . .

Under Communism someone else will decide how you live. Under Socialism someone else will also decide your quality of life and under Anarchism, no one could care less whether you live or die. A little bit of Socialism then, a lot less rules and regulations and the use of Capitalism to fund it? That's Utopia.

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05-23-2015, 04:48 AM #2 Perianne's Avatar Perianne Perianne is offline
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John, your posts are always interesting. It is good to have you here.
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Or this from me. -Tyr

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Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
‘Howdy y’all’, or as we British former colonialists would say, ‘Good evening ladies and gentlemen’.

Here by invitation, courtesy of ‘Perianne’.


John V, a UK citizen, living in Thailand since 2008 and working as an English and Social Science teacher in Inner Mongolia, China, since 2011; now spreading British culture elsewhere after having been so rudely and violently expelled from our Majesty’s former Americas.

Of no particular ideological persuasion, but both a realist and pragmatist and so against western liberalism and cultural Marxism.
I believe everyone should do what they like without traditional values or morals, as long as I don’t have to live in that kind of society. I believe in government dependency, changing the climate, increasing welfare and feeding the world, as long as I don’t have to pay for it and I will believe in equality when Mr. Soros shares his wealth with me, because he’s got more than me and according to Mr. Obama, that’s how it’s supposed to work.


I look forward to contributing.
Damn, after reading that intro--had to log in just to say, "howdy and welcome"!
Soros only gives his money to destructive left-wing causes so don't hold your breath expecting a penny from that certified lousy scoundrel. -Tyr
Islam: the only religion that will kill you for not appreciating it - and then claim that you're the one with the phobia.
“I will stand with the Muslims , The Audacity of Hope” page 261… Barak Obama-Traitor
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to kill those who interrupt that serenity, and the wisdom to know where to bury the bodies."
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05-23-2015, 01:10 AM #1672 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
Damn, after reading that intro--had to log in just to say, "howdy and welcome"!
Soros only gives his money to destructive left-wing causes so don't hold your breath expecting a penny from that certified lousy scoundrel. -Tyr
Woah, hold on a minute, let’s not be hasty, for a share of $24.2bn I can be quite easily be persuaded that trees should have rights and welfare creates employment, but after my share out I insist we give up this sharing and you didn’t succeed on your own nonsense. Deal?


Mr. Obama says, ‘If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.’ Mr. Soros, it was me, me, John V and I'll accept a cheque or cash.

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5-23-2015, 07:14 AM #24 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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You know, travelling around the world there’s one thing about communist countries that you never forget. They function quite normally, but you can sense there’s something missing and it takes a while to put your finger on it. What’s missing is belief, which can only be described as a feeling of emptiness.

After a while you sense why the worst atrocities in the 20th century occurred in those countries that elevated man-made laws above the Ten Commandments and a cult leader politician above God. It’s where the mass graves come from.

Look at Europe as it abandons religion for secularism and although a correlation can’t be proven, all the human rights, equality, diversity and multiculturalism put together can’t repair the moral vacuum it’s created. Be careful, religion is a funny thing, don’t take it for granted, it’s something you don’t miss until it’s no longer there and you won’t like what replaces it. Dismiss it as liberal stupidity if you prefer, but this is how it started in the USSR, China and Cambodia as well

He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama (or Stalin, or Mao, or Pohl Pot).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFC1qFCgyA (2.27 minutes)



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05-23-2015, 09:21 AM #3 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
You are off to a rip roaring start. I hope your blade is sharp and you are not squeamish at the sight of blood. For the path you are now own will one day likely lead to bloodshed, perhaps even your own.
No problem, Ive been racing on that path for over 20 years now, they have not managed to shut me up or kill me(at least not yet)...-Tyr

A man will fight, a coward will run and a fool will applaud both equally. The first for his defiance , the second for his brilliance in running.

My legs are bad, my hands will be busy firing and to hell with those that are in such a desperate need of lead poisoning... may they enjoy their speedy trip to their maker..
I fly my flag openly, as you can see ....-Tyr
I’ve posted a lot because it’s my day off today and no doubt I’ll be slowing down, but I’m more than willing to debate, a one to one is also OK. What I won’t get involved in is half a dozen throwing insults, or baiting. I’ve never been to the U.S. but the reason it’s so obvious is that Obama is following the path of a European ideology. Gun control, civil unrest, State dependency, mass immigration . . . isn’t something that just happened, they’re by-products of his agenda. Europe is exactly the same, it’s a madhouse over there.
Yet I know what you’re saying and thank you for the advice.

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Quote Originally Posted by Polite Russian View Post
Hey guys. I think you may be interested how we fight with the "problemic Islamists" in Russia nowadays
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1eb5rK-YSfA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYFSBuRjyk
It’s the only way to do it. Every country that has appeased them has suffered. Here in China they go on the rampage now and again in small groups, usually chopping people up with knives and axes at train stations or airports. The police shoot them and then go to the places they came from and round up the accomplices. They get a short trial and are then taken to a field and shot in the back of the head. It’s all televised and no one bats an eyelid, it’s open to public viewing as well, but I’ve never been. Terrorists, rapists and drug dealers meet the same end here.
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05-24-2015, 07:27 AM #3 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Me too. I rate Putin highly, but that’s only from the little I know of him; strong, a conservative and he gave the EU the boot out of the Ukraine. I’m sure there’s more to it than that. Welcome ‘Polite Russian’. Oh by the way, where in Russia are you?
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05-24-2015, 08:50 AM #3 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Thanks for that

One of the things we pride ourselves on is tolerance, a sense of fair play and above all, democracy. It’s also what is destroying us. In the west the largest number of votes wins and if that becomes the votes of immigrants, or a religious group, then so be it. I don’t know too much about the U.S. but I’ll take an educated guess and say Muslims are already targeting the disaffected in the prisons, minority groups, street gangs . . . That’s how it started in the UK.
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05-24-2015, 09:27 AM #16 John V's Avatar John V John V is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
I said way back when that bigamy would be next, and many arguments from some of them have already started. Hell, I've seen arguments starting that if gay marriage is going through, that there is then no reason to deny marriages within the family, of cousins and such. In different parts of the world, I've seen several 'marriages' already to a goat and other animals. In other words, the MOCKERY and destruction of marriage has long started.

At this point, I say give it to them. Change the name of the REAL, original and traditional joining of one man and one woman. This time make it in a manner where ONLY those terms fit for this joining to occur. Leave the scummy government out and make it so that the deviants around the world will never be able to take over and claim 'equality' in order to change what 'one man and one woman' created.

And if the others don't like it? Tough shit, let them go off and create their own little whatever, and let them keep out us weird heteros if they like.
For years I’ve reiterated that the west is sliding towards progressivism and that what is happening now is the dumbing down period leading to that. Equality, human rights, cultural Marxism . . . but what’s more important is that having got all that, has it produced a better society? Legalised drugs, mass welfare and sodomy isn’t what made America great and if you remove the traditions and values that did, what you’re left with is what you have now. I don’t think it’s the kind of freedom your Founding Fathers had in mind.

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I guess you mean where I followed your posts giving you thanks, eh?. Those thanks and dates can not be faked but can easily be verified.

Everything was just fine as long as I presented no opposition to you --but the moment I did you pm'ed me with a threat.
That was after I openly opposed your criticism of "American Exceptionalism"..
What you want is a forum where none dare oppose what you say.
Now you cry out for others to support you stopping that criticism, just as the left/libs try to destroy/censor all opposition to them.

Show (any example) where I was rude to you before your (threatening) pm to me.
You can not yet now you claim I and others hound you like a gang , to harass you!
You even jumped on Jeff for a post he made that was not even about you.

Methinks you are an egotist on a massive scale..

You make lying charges and accusations then scream bloody murder if called on it..

Present eve one example my rudeness to you before the pm you sent me.
The proof is in the pudding dude.
You can not present even one such post yet you make these accusations like a child.
How is it I hounded you when I was issuing thanks and even replies of agreement?? -Tyr

[revelarts]

John, it's a small group of active members here and the definition of "liberal" to some is pretty broad. so don't take it to seriously.

Anyone who doesn't agree with a kind of grassroots neo-conservativism loosely defined by the the following positions is often negatively tag "LIBERAL" or "LEFTIST" and sometimes a "hater of America".

•American greatness is measured by our willingness to be a great power—through vast and virtually unlimited global military involvement.
•ANYTHING goes in foreign policy. And the U.S. can do no wrong if the purposes are to protect americans or american interest. and "promote freedom".
•Israel is never wrong.
•Capitalism is the best and anything good for big corps is good for america. And all large U.S businesses basically do no wrong and should not be questioned, nor their officials jailed. But workers, unions and customers are often unreasonable and selfish.
•Supports Religious ideals in gov't sometimes... but is not always. (we have to be realistic and torture people at times you know)
•Often Pro-life but not always.
•Anti Gay marriage
•Anti the global warming agenda
•Anti illegal immigration
•Demand others only support the Republican party no matter how liberal the candidates voting record. (or your helping the LEFT)
•Supports the the 2nd amendment without question and all other amendments depending on if a leading republican has made excuses or laws, or has broken it already.
•Says they support the constitution unconditionally and 100%, but allow caveats, bad supreme court decisions and creative readings as needed.
•Muslims are bad, and the ones that say they are moderate a lying because the Koran says they can.
•Police are good and rarely if ever do any wrong. And those that question them simply are liberal, hate Police and just want lawlessness and rioting.
•W. Bush was a great president who may have made a few minor mistakes but ultimately was a great president and great man
•Reagan was nearly perfect in every way. Thatcher as Golden.
•love minorities and speak well of them on every occasion....cough.

John If you don't align with the above then you MIGHT be a Liberal or Leftist.:dunno:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There are more examples but I posted enough .
This man wants no opposition to what he says. The moment I openly opposed something that he criticized--"American Exceptionalism ", he goes ballistic and pm me with a threat.
Now we are witness his try to make good on that threat.
I have the actual pm saved off site .
This whole thing is bullshat on his part as I was a good boy until the first time I rejected something he stated!
Believe him if you are gullible or think evidence I JUST POSTED WAS FAKE.
Also, I have no gang here, thats a false charge too.
I have friends same as you all do.

I asked for evidence of this hounding and sniping he accused me of- -lets see him present it and not any comments I made AFTER he sent me that threat in a pm.
--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

John, it's a small group of active members here and the definition of "liberal" to some is pretty broad. so don't take it to seriously.

Anyone who doesn't agree with a kind of grassroots neo-conservativism loosely defined by the the following positions is often negatively tag "LIBERAL" or "LEFTIST" and sometimes a "hater of America".

•American greatness is measured by our willingness to be a great power—through vast and virtually unlimited global military involvement.
•ANYTHING goes in foreign policy. And the U.S. can do no wrong if the purposes are to protect americans or american interest. and "promote freedom".
•Israel is never wrong.
•Capitalism is the best and anything good for big corps is good for america. And all large U.S businesses basically do no wrong and should not be questioned, nor their officials jailed. But workers, unions and customers are often unreasonable and selfish.
•Supports Religious ideals in gov't sometimes... but is not always. (we have to be realistic and torture people at times you know)
•Often Pro-life but not always.
•Anti Gay marriage
•Anti the global warming agenda
•Anti illegal immigration
•Demand others only support the Republican party no matter how liberal the candidates voting record. (or your helping the LEFT)
•Supports the the 2nd amendment without question and all other amendments depending on if a leading republican has made excuses or laws, or has broken it already.
•Says they support the constitution unconditionally and 100%, but allow caveats, bad supreme court decisions and creative readings as needed.
•Muslims are bad, and the ones that say they are moderate a lying because the Koran says they can.
•Police are good and rarely if ever do any wrong. And those that question them simply are liberal, hate Police and just want lawlessness and rioting.
•W. Bush was a great president who may have made a few minor mistakes but ultimately was a great president and great man
•Reagan was nearly perfect in every way. Thatcher as Golden.
•love minorities and speak well of them on every occasion....

John If you don't align with the above then you MIGHT be a Liberal or Leftist.:dunno:

Rev, I made no such charge against him. I merely took exception to his criticism of America/ AmericanExceptionalism and later his silly advice for me to listen to the obama speeches.
I just presented lots of evidence that he now lies about the sniping and insults he claimed I issued. Nothing rude came from me until after he pm a threat to me.
I presented evidence, he has not--all he has done is accused(falsely) then cry for support or else he threatens to leave!
How childish is that?
Bow to me or I leave.. Thats a kid saying I'll hold my breathe until you give me what I want. Its not a man that has been wronged.
Its a man demanding his opposition be stopped / dealt with or else he leaves.
Utter rot.. --Tyr

[sundaydriver]

A late welcome to the forum John. I appreciate the views of others that are shaped by different experiences than our own and the questions that we should ask of ourselves when hearing the different world opinions of events that effect us all. That being said, I hope that the fragile egos here that are so threatened when someone doesn't fawn all over them while self-aggrandizing don't run you off as they have others.

[Balu]

John, it's a small group of active members here and the definition of "liberal" to some is pretty broad. so don't take it to seriously.

Anyone who doesn't agree with a kind of grassroots neo-conservativism loosely defined by the the following positions is often negatively tag "LIBERAL" or "LEFTIST" and sometimes a "hater of America".

•American greatness is measured by our willingness to be a great power—through vast and virtually unlimited global military involvement.
•ANYTHING goes in foreign policy. And the U.S. can do no wrong if the purposes are to protect americans or american interest. and "promote freedom".
•Israel is never wrong.
•Capitalism is the best and anything good for big corps is good for america. And all large U.S businesses basically do no wrong and should not be questioned, nor their officials jailed. But workers, unions and customers are often unreasonable and selfish.
•Supports Religious ideals in gov't sometimes... but is not always. (we have to be realistic and torture people at times you know)
•Often Pro-life but not always.
•Anti Gay marriage
•Anti the global warming agenda
•Anti illegal immigration
•Demand others only support the Republican party no matter how liberal the candidates voting record. (or your helping the LEFT)
•Supports the the 2nd amendment without question and all other amendments depending on if a leading republican has made excuses or laws, or has broken it already.
•Says they support the constitution unconditionally and 100%, but allow caveats, bad supreme court decisions and creative readings as needed.
•Muslims are bad, and the ones that say they are moderate a lying because the Koran says they can.
•Police are good and rarely if ever do any wrong. And those that question them simply are liberal, hate Police and just want lawlessness and rioting.
•W. Bush was a great president who may have made a few minor mistakes but ultimately was a great president and great man
•Reagan was nearly perfect in every way. Thatcher as Golden.
•love minorities and speak well of them on every occasion....

John If you don't align with the above then you MIGHT be a Liberal or Leftist.:dunno:

Magnificently!!! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/ok.gif

[revelarts]

There are more examples but I posted enough .
This man wants no opposition to what he says. The moment I openly opposed something that he criticized--"American Exceptionalism ", he goes ballistic and pm me with a threat.
Now we are witness his try to make good on that threat.
I have the actual pm saved off site .
This whole thing is bullshat on his part as I was a good boy until the first time I rejected something he stated!
Believe him if you are gullible or think evidence I JUST POSTED WAS FAKE.
Also, I have no gang here, thats a false charge too.
I have friends same as you all do.

I asked for evidence of this hounding and sniping he accused me of- -lets see him present it and not any comments I made AFTER he sent me that threat in a pm.
--Tyr
Tyr i was just speaking generally not to the details of your comments or his.

just the one point that some here have called him "liberal".

[red state]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you mean where I followed your posts giving you thanks, eh?. Those thanks and dates can not be faked but can easily be verified.

Everything was just fine as long as I presented no opposition to you --but the moment I did you pm'ed me with a threat.
That was after I openly opposed your criticism of "American Exceptionalism"..
What you want is a forum where none dare oppose what you say.
Now you cry out for others to support you stopping that criticism, just as the left/libs try to destroy/censor all opposition to them.

Show (any example) where I was rude to you before your (threatening) pm to me.
You can not yet now you claim I and others hound you like a gang , to harass you!
You even jumped on Jeff for a post he made that was not even about you.

Methinks you are an egotist on a massive scale..

You make lying charges and accusations then scream bloody murder if called on it..

Present eve one example my rudeness to you before the pm you sent me.
The proof is in the pudding dude.
You can not present even one such post yet you make these accusations like a child.
How is it I hounded you when I was issuing thanks and even replies of agreement?? -Tyr[/QUOTE]


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There goes a REAL steel trap......in fact, that bees a BAR trap!!!! I would have added to your rep on that one but JIM is forcing me to simply give you a few of these:

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap:......and a :beer:!!!

Now to address the following:

When you take your car to the garage and the mechanic tells you it’s not the battery that’s at fault, as you first thought, but an expensive gasket head replacement, do you think he’s a liar? NO BUT I MAKE SURE I KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN SOMETHING THAT DRASTIC AND SEEK A MORE HONEST POLITICAL SCIENTIST (I mean mechanic). SORRY 'BOUT THAT BUT IT WAS A TERRIBLE COMPARISON TO BEGIN WITH. EDUCATION, RESEARCH AND COMMON SENSE GOES A LONG WAY...WHICH IS WHY WISE MEN TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED OR "...trusts without verifying..."

If a doctor says you have tonsillitis, do you think he’s stupid because in your opinion he’s wrong?
SAME, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE COMPARISON BECAUSE WITH THE INFORMATION OUT THERE, I USUALLY DO KNOW AS MUCH AS THE DOCTOR BY THE TIME I ACTUALLY VISIT THE DOCTOR. I CAN SAY THIS FROM EXPERIENCE AFTER LOSING MY MOM TO CANCER AND ALL THE TIMES I'VE NAILED THE 'DIAGNOSTIC' ON MY OWN 'PARTS' OVER THE YEARS. FOLKS......ALWAYS GET A SECOND OPINION AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH; IT SAVES TIME IN ALL THE TESTS AND USUALLY COSTS......NOT TO MENTION TIME WASTED IN THE DOC CALLING (it) WHAT IT ISN'T AND SCHEDULING SURGERY.....WHEN ALL WAS NEEDED WAS A SIMPLE FIX. I HAD MY TONSILS REMOVED YEARS AGO BY THE WAY.....

If a Social and Political Science teacher tells you that Obama is a cultural Marxist and that his views (and those of whom he surrounds himself with), can be traced back to the pre-war Frankfurt school (German Institute for Social Research), is that arrogance? NOT AT ALL....WE ALL HAVE ARMPITS AND THEY ALL SWEAT FROM TIME TO TIME. I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH ANY EXPLANATIONS REGARDING THE EVILS THAT HAVE FORGED THIS LIAR WE HAVE IN OUR WHITE HOUSE....HISTORY IS FULL OF THE TYPES THAT MAKE UP OUR SOCIETY. I TEND TO BLAME THOSE IN THE HERE AND NOW THOUGH BECAUSE WE'VE ALL HAD THE POTENTIAL TO FOLLOW CORRUPT, EVIL IDIOTS BUT MANY OF US WERE SMART ENOUGH TO GO OUR OWN WAY AND THE WAY OF OUR FOUNDING (A PREDOMINANTLY CHRISTIAN NATION WHO FOUNDED, FOUGHT FOR AND PRESERVED THIS NATION AND THE WORLD TO SOME GREAT DEGREE). ARE WE 'SPECIAL', 'UNIQUE', 'BRAVE', 'GIVING'.....YOU BET YOUR @$$ WE ARE AND I'LL NOT HERE ANY OF THE OBAMA CRAP THAT WE (THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA), A CHRISTIAN NATION, ARE NOT EXCEPTIONAL OR ANY MORE SO EXCEPTIONAL FROM ANY OTHER NATION ON EARTH. THAT IS RIGHT OUT OF THE OBAMA/GORE/CLINTON LIBERAL PLAYBOOK. AS TYR STATED: "...the proof is in the pudding...".

[Noir]

Spare a thought for what actual liberals have to put up with ;P

[Kathianne]

If you look around you'll find that many on staff and off have repeatedly asked for some members to stop attacking others, especially new members. These mini-convos have taken place even when there are no new members, some of us recognizing that what is being viewed as guests has chased off potential members.

Truth is, we want people to be able to voice whatever they choose to, within the confines of rules that have been set up. This is a double-edged sword, as anyone who's studied the first amendment is aware. In the case of this small little soapbox, those willing to shout or whine loudest and with others willing to back them up, tend to shut up and drive off all but those used to dealing with them.

I think your point on being 'anti-intellectual' is correct for some for various reasons, the least not being a problem with American education in large measure.

I suggest that you converse with those that are willing to discuss and debate, ignore posters that are just out to attack differing viewpoints.

No matter what messageboards you visit from US, you'll find versions of all posters here, on larger boards it's easier to just avoid those that troll those they disagree with.

Now to those that think I'm speaking to only certain people, I'm not. This has been ongoing and truly staff and others know of no other way to deal with it. Jim has tried to appeal 'for the good of the board,' 'to make for more interesting and diverse conversations', and other means. None of it has worked. We get it. It seems short of inviting a few dozen liberals here, that could pile on differing opinions, all we can hope for is a few members willing to take the type of name calling that comes with not towing the line here.

[Gunny]

A little bit of information. There’s a rumour going round that I’m some sort of Liberal professor. Here are some facts. I was born on a council estate in the UK, (U.S. equivalent of project housing) and I did my version of a UK ‘Protect and Serve’ for many years in Germany as part of BAOR and fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland. Wounded and discharged (petrol bomb), I decided to invest in myself and spent many years at various universities. I wasn’t bought up, I crawled up and it’s that strength of character, belief in God and maintaining traditional values and morals that I believe enabled me to get where I am today. There is no silver spoon in my mouth, it’s called social mobility, being independent and staying well away from government dependency.

I came here to post, hopefully to debate and most of the people I’ve met here I’ve no problem with, or I think they with me. We plod along, all with our different views, but I made what appears to be a mistake in saying who I am and what I do. That apparently didn’t go down well with a small clique, who took offence at a social and political science teacher on a political forum ‘telling’ them about political science. On hindsight, I suspect it upset the equilibrium of those small few having a monopoly on political thought and definitions and I’ve already had all the, you’re not here to teach us, you’re stupid and arrogant and we know more than you.

When you take your car to the garage and the mechanic tells you it’s not the battery that’s at fault, as you first thought, but an expensive gasket head replacement, do you think he’s a liar?
If a doctor says you have tonsillitis, do you think he’s stupid because in your opinion he’s wrong?
If a Social and Political Science teacher tells you that Obama is a cultural Marxist and that his views (and those of whom he surrounds himself with), can be traced back to the pre-war Frankfurt school (German Institute for Social Research), is that arrogance?

Politics is part of political science; it’s a science, not a belief system. Of course, there are opinions on the implementation of ideologies and their adaptations and it’s why we have, ‘so and so is better than s/he is’, but all ideologies in the world arise from source and it’s that source of science that I attempt to link my own writings to. You gain knowledge of the source and you get a much clearer idea of what lies ahead.

I started by writing about who I am, then went on to explain my views and put up a few easy reading threads about every day topics. That would have evolved into more complex writings on subjects such as socialism in the U.S. (no, it’s not probably what many of you think it is which why Obama has been able to disguise it so well), or progressivism and the ‘dumbing down’ period you’re now going through and based on progressivism, what comes next . . . What it is, how it arose, who’s behind it and its purpose . . . Believe me, Social science is not as simple as U.S. Democrat v Republican, or UK Labour v Conservatives and it’s a lack of social and political science knowledge that makes it so easy for the politicians to, using an Americanism, do a number on so many.

Having said all that, unless I get some support here and you all help to reign in the few idiots, I’m not prepared to waste my time here getting abuse and personal insults. Whatever your line of work is, would you spend your time explaining it to such a hostile audience? I’ve already been told on the threads I’m a trouble maker and to go way – it’s your call forum, you decide.

Uh ... no? Exception is taken to your closed-minded arrogance. A conversation with you is like a conversation with my brother ... you do all the talking and preaching and everyone is just supposed to accept what you say as fact. A conversation requires two or more people actually listening to one another rather than one preaching to the others.

Maybe you ought to listen to your own words and try learning something instead of superimposing what you think is "right" on everyone else.

[Gunny]

There's a Whine'nSnivel Thread:

Whine'nSnivel Thread (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-The-aboutime-and-Gunny-Snivel-Thread)

You mean the one you started and got ran out of?:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Uh ... no? Exception is taken to your closed-minded arrogance. A conversation with you is like a conversation with my brother ... you do all the talking and preaching and everyone is just supposed to accept what you say as fact. A conversation requires two or more people actually listening to one another rather than one preaching to the others.

Maybe you ought to listen to your own words and try learning something instead of superimposing what you think is "right" on everyone else.

I agree with you in part too Gunny. John came off very arrogant, though I do think it probably has more to do with the British system of debating, I've seen it in both Noir and Drummond's postings from time-to-time. Lots of 'appeals to authority' and such.

It seems the US education system is a bit more influenced in debating towards 'giving a bit to win the whole'. Indeed one of the truisms in US is that education levels really have little to do with intelligence, so I for one would not argue that the number of degrees or even expertise in one arena of education makes one by definition more knowledgeable than someone else. What I do agree with John however is that he likely has knowledge that others would like to start with in exploration.

Another point that John and I disagree, (no surprise from anyone that knows me), is that political science/social sciences are indeed sciences. Sorry John, I've a few of those degrees myself. The best that can be said on the science part is the parameters that are supposedly set and followed. Unfortunately the failures to do so are legion. Even if rigorously followed, the problem is always going to be intentionally or not, the premises and the methods used to measure. One cannot catch a political theory by electron microscope. Subjectivity will always be a player.

[Gunny]

I agree with you in part too Gunny. John came off very arrogant, though I do think it probably has more to do with the British system of debating, I've seen it in both Noir and Drummond's postings from time-to-time. Lots of 'appeals to authority' and such.

It seems the US education system is a bit more influenced in debating towards 'giving a bit to win the whole'. Indeed one of the truisms in US is that education levels really have little to do with intelligence, so I for one would not argue that the number of degrees or even expertise in one arena of education makes one by definition more knowledgeable than someone else. What I do agree with John however is that he likely has knowledge that others would like to start with in exploration.

Another point that John and I disagree, (no surprise from anyone that knows me), is that political science/social sciences are indeed sciences. Sorry John, I've a few of those degrees myself. The best that can be said on the science part is the parameters that are supposedly set and followed. Unfortunately the failures to do so are legion. Even if rigorously followed, the problem is always going to be intentionally or not, the premises and the methods used to measure. One cannot catch a political theory by electron microscope. Subjectivity will always be a player.

My issue has never been with his degrees, intellect, nor anything of the sort. I take issue with his joining the board and immediately preaching what he thinks is right. Kudos to him if he brought himself up by his boot straps. However, success often breeds arrogance and closed-mindedness.

I also take exception to foreigners coming on a US political message board and expecting everyone to immediately understand their views while making no attempt to understand ours. Every port/country we were ever in, we had to understand THEIR rules, not superimpose ours on them. A lot of jarheads got in trouble with the law for thinking otherwise. I was once on an international political message board and I had to understand THEM.

As far as his "warm welcome" from the "clique" goes ... join the club. This board's not as bad as most. ;)

[gabosaurus]

Having said all that, unless I get some support here and you all help to reign in the few idiots, I’m not prepared to waste my time here getting abuse and personal insults. Whatever your line of work is, would you spend your time explaining it to such a hostile audience? I’ve already been told on the threads I’m a trouble maker and to go way – it’s your call forum, you decide.

In case you have yet to figure it out, this is not a place that freely accepts liberal ideas. DP is a forum for conservative posters to espouse right-wing opinions and ideology.
If you post liberal ideas here, you are going to get attacked. You will be subject to abuse and personal insults. You will be labeled as an un-American troublemaker and told where to go.
I know this because I have been a liberal on DP for more than a decade. I don't advise other liberal thinkers to come here. Because most are not as tolerant as me.

John V., I have been reading some of your posts. I believe DP's opposition to you comes not as much from your political views as your arrogance. You can't walk into a forum that has been around for more than a decade and accept it to change according to your whims. It's not going to happen. If you think you will ever be accepted for your viewpoints here, you are sadly mistaken.
So why would you spend your time explaining yourself to such a hostile audience? You don't have to. It's your choice.
If you stay here, you can expect more of the same. The idiots will never be reigned in. As a matter of fact, the idiots will become even more idiotic. Because they are encouraged to do so. That is what political discourse on non-moderated internet forums is about.
There is safety and power in numbers. Conservatives are the numbers on DP.

Let's set up an example in line with those you presented in your original post in this thread.
Suppose you walk up to a large group of people that are verbally abusing and threatening a single person because of their appearance and ideas. If you start defending the lone person, the mob is going to turn on you as well. You're not going to change anyone's mind on your own.

John V, take my advice and go somewhere else. Your ideas are not acceptable here. Neither is your arrogance and insolence toward other members.

[aboutime]

Tyr i was just speaking generally not to the details of your comments or his.

just the one point that some here have called him "liberal".


rev. Truth is. Where he is, they are not Liberal (per se) but here in the U.S. He fits in with the Obama mold, to a "T". Almost as liberal as you seem to come off most of the time to me.
You and John can disagree with me, and others as much as you like. But Like Lies, you can't change being Liberal.

[Gunny]

In case you have yet to figure it out, this is not a place that freely accepts liberal ideas. DP is a forum for conservative posters to espouse right-wing opinions and ideology.
If you post liberal ideas here, you are going to get attacked. You will be subject to abuse and personal insults. You will be labeled as an un-American troublemaker and told where to go.
I know this because I have been a liberal on DP for more than a decade. I don't advise other liberal thinkers to come here. Because most are not as tolerant as me.

John V., I have been reading some of your posts. I believe DP's opposition to you comes not as much from your political views as your arrogance. You can't walk into a forum that has been around for more than a decade and accept it to change according to your whims. It's not going to happen. If you think you will ever be accepted for your viewpoints here, you are sadly mistaken.
So why would you spend your time explaining yourself to such a hostile audience? You don't have to. It's your choice.
If you stay here, you can expect more of the same. The idiots will never be reigned in. As a matter of fact, the idiots will become even more idiotic. Because they are encouraged to do so. That is what political discourse on non-moderated internet forums is about.
There is safety and power in numbers. Conservatives are the numbers on DP.

Let's set up an example in line with those you presented in your original post in this thread.
Suppose you walk up to a large group of people that are verbally abusing and threatening a single person because of their appearance and ideas. If you start defending the lone person, the mob is going to turn on you as well. You're not going to change anyone's mind on your own.

John V, take my advice and go somewhere else. Your ideas are not acceptable here. Neither is your arrogance and insolence toward other members.

Need some cheese to go with that whine?:cuckoo:

[aboutime]

Need some cheese to go with that whine?:cuckoo:

Gunny. Gabby has finally explained where she has been, without saying it...as she warned John.
Sounds like she has converted, and dedicated all of her False Information, and Lies to another, more welcoming forum like DEMOCRATUNDERGROUND....where Life Is Happy All The Time....they're coming to take her away!:lol:

[NightTrain]

John, there were a few jabs taken at you that were unwarranted when you first joined. At that point, the comment(s) didn't add up because you were an unknown factor and it was baseless - and I've seen it happen around here more than once. That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Other times, though, there is a cultural difference and the tone is unintended - the written word is a cold medium.

But unless I missed something, Tyr wasn't attacking you initially. I saw where you two first clashed, and it looked mutual to me. I don't remember the thread or even who took something out of context... and I'm too lazy to go find it. But you two have a rift now, and it's up to you two to either resolve it or engage in a running battle across the entire board with insults. That happens pretty frequently too, unfortunately. I hope you both resolve things or if that isn't possible, ignore each other.

I think people sometimes forget that you can disagree with someone on some issues and still like them - or at least get along somewhat.



To follow up with what Kathi posted...

As far as attacking brand-new members go, nothing pisses me off more than seeing an established member here attack the new guy with insults and snide remarks that are completely baseless - the new member hasn't even said what they believe or what floats their boat, and yet they are being accused and attacked only because they're new.

It's bullshit and it needs to stop. The owner of this board wishes it to grow - and I have personally witnessed roughly 30 new, active members run off because someone is a miserable asshole just in the last 8 months or so.

I've tried to be gentle about it, and then I've been a real prick about it. It gets better after I make a big fucking deal out of it, but then it starts happening again.

Look, everyone has posters that they love, and those they loathe. If someone is at the polar opposite of the spectrum from you, it's real easy to dislike them and unleash the beast. That's cool. I enjoy getting down in the mud as much as anyone when a Nazi wanders in here or a Muzzie starts spewing propaganda. That's what this board is for : to argue with people you don't agree with.

WTF is wrong with letting the new guy announce that he enjoys clubbing kittens before being pounced upon?

[Gunny]

John, there were a few jabs taken at you that were unwarranted when you first joined. At that point, the comment(s) didn't add up because you were an unknown factor and it was baseless - and I've seen it happen around here more than once. That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Other times, though, there is a cultural difference and the tone is unintended - the written word is a cold medium.

But unless I missed something, Tyr wasn't attacking you initially. I saw where you two first clashed, and it looked mutual to me. I don't remember the thread or even who took something out of context... and I'm too lazy to go find it. But you two have a rift now, and it's up to you two to either resolve it or engage in a running battle across the entire board with insults. That happens pretty frequently too, unfortunately. I hope you both resolve things or if that isn't possible, ignore each other.

I think people sometimes forget that you can disagree with someone on some issues and still like them - or at least get along somewhat.



To follow up with what Kathi posted...

As far as attacking brand-new members go, nothing pisses me off more than seeing an established member here attack the new guy with insults and snide remarks that are completely baseless - the new member hasn't even said what they believe or what floats their boat, and yet they are being accused and attacked only because they're new.

It's bullshit and it needs to stop. The owner of this board wishes it to grow - and I have personally witnessed roughly 30 new, active members run off because someone is a miserable asshole just in the last 8 months or so.

I've tried to be gentle about it, and then I've been a real prick about it. It gets better after I make a big fucking deal out of it, but then it starts happening again.

Look, everyone has posters that they love, and those they loathe. If someone is at the polar opposite of the spectrum from you, it's real easy to dislike them and unleash the beast. That's cool. I enjoy getting down in the mud as much as anyone when a Nazi wanders in here or a Muzzie starts spewing propaganda. That's what this board is for : to argue with people you don't agree with.

WTF is wrong with letting the new guy announce that he enjoys clubbing kittens before being pounced upon?

If he clubs kittens, that's DEFINITELY a deal-breaker.:smoke:

[hjmick]

A little bit of information. There’s a rumour going round that I’m some sort of Liberal professor. Here are some facts. I was born on a council estate in the UK, (U.S. equivalent of project housing) and I did my version of a UK ‘Protect and Serve’ for many years in Germany as part of BAOR and fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland. Wounded and discharged (petrol bomb), I decided to invest in myself and spent many years at various universities. I wasn’t bought up, I crawled up and it’s that strength of character, belief in God and maintaining traditional values and morals that I believe enabled me to get where I am today. There is no silver spoon in my mouth, it’s called social mobility, being independent and staying well away from government dependency.

I came here to post, hopefully to debate and most of the people I’ve met here I’ve no problem with, or I think they with me. We plod along, all with our different views, but I made what appears to be a mistake in saying who I am and what I do. That apparently didn’t go down well with a small clique, who took offence at a social and political science teacher on a political forum ‘telling’ them about political science. On hindsight, I suspect it upset the equilibrium of those small few having a monopoly on political thought and definitions and I’ve already had all the, you’re not here to teach us, you’re stupid and arrogant and we know more than you.

When you take your car to the garage and the mechanic tells you it’s not the battery that’s at fault, as you first thought, but an expensive gasket head replacement, do you think he’s a liar?
If a doctor says you have tonsillitis, do you think he’s stupid because in your opinion he’s wrong?
If a Social and Political Science teacher tells you that Obama is a cultural Marxist and that his views (and those of whom he surrounds himself with), can be traced back to the pre-war Frankfurt school (German Institute for Social Research), is that arrogance?

Politics is part of political science; it’s a science, not a belief system. Of course, there are opinions on the implementation of ideologies and their adaptations and it’s why we have, ‘so and so is better than s/he is’, but all ideologies in the world arise from source and it’s that source of science that I attempt to link my own writings to. You gain knowledge of the source and you get a much clearer idea of what lies ahead.

I started by writing about who I am, then went on to explain my views and put up a few easy reading threads about every day topics. That would have evolved into more complex writings on subjects such as socialism in the U.S. (no, it’s not probably what many of you think it is which why Obama has been able to disguise it so well), or progressivism and the ‘dumbing down’ period you’re now going through and based on progressivism, what comes next . . . What it is, how it arose, who’s behind it and its purpose . . . Believe me, Social science is not as simple as U.S. Democrat v Republican, or UK Labour v Conservatives and it’s a lack of social and political science knowledge that makes it so easy for the politicians to, using an Americanism, do a number on so many.

Having said all that, unless I get some support here and you all help to reign in the few idiots, I’m not prepared to waste my time here getting abuse and personal insults. Whatever your line of work is, would you spend your time explaining it to such a hostile audience? I’ve already been told on the threads I’m a trouble maker and to go way – it’s your call forum, you decide.



Yeah, great, cool story bro...

Stay, go, makes no difference to me, probably makes no difference to anyone else. If the rest of your posts are as dull and whiny as this one, I'll most likely never read another...

But I will say this, blame no one but yourself should you choose to depart. Don't blame the "assholes" because you do not possess the testicular fortitude required to ignore those who disagree with you and would like to see you fail. For crying out loud, man, they're strangers on the Internet! None of us are going to cure what ails this world by posting on a message board, and you're unlikely to change anyone's POV.

Now...

7259


Oh, and try growing a pair...

[Abbey Marie]

A little bit of information. There’s a rumour going round that I’m some sort of Liberal professor. Here are some facts. I was born on a council estate in the UK, (U.S. equivalent of project housing) and I did my version of a UK ‘Protect and Serve’ for many years in Germany as part of BAOR and fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland. Wounded and discharged (petrol bomb), I decided to invest in myself and spent many years at various universities. I wasn’t bought up, I crawled up and it’s that strength of character, belief in God and maintaining traditional values and morals that I believe enabled me to get where I am today. There is no silver spoon in my mouth, it’s called social mobility, being independent and staying well away from government dependency.

I came here to post, hopefully to debate and most of the people I’ve met here I’ve no problem with, or I think they with me. We plod along, all with our different views, but I made what appears to be a mistake in saying who I am and what I do. That apparently didn’t go down well with a small clique, who took offence at a social and political science teacher on a political forum ‘telling’ them about political science. On hindsight, I suspect it upset the equilibrium of those small few having a monopoly on political thought and definitions and I’ve already had all the, you’re not here to teach us, you’re stupid and arrogant and we know more than you.

When you take your car to the garage and the mechanic tells you it’s not the battery that’s at fault, as you first thought, but an expensive gasket head replacement, do you think he’s a liar?
If a doctor says you have tonsillitis, do you think he’s stupid because in your opinion he’s wrong?
If a Social and Political Science teacher tells you that Obama is a cultural Marxist and that his views (and those of whom he surrounds himself with), can be traced back to the pre-war Frankfurt school (German Institute for Social Research), is that arrogance?

Politics is part of political science; it’s a science, not a belief system. Of course, there are opinions on the implementation of ideologies and their adaptations and it’s why we have, ‘so and so is better than s/he is’, but all ideologies in the world arise from source and it’s that source of science that I attempt to link my own writings to. You gain knowledge of the source and you get a much clearer idea of what lies ahead.

I started by writing about who I am, then went on to explain my views and put up a few easy reading threads about every day topics. That would have evolved into more complex writings on subjects such as socialism in the U.S. (no, it’s not probably what many of you think it is which why Obama has been able to disguise it so well), or progressivism and the ‘dumbing down’ period you’re now going through and based on progressivism, what comes next . . . What it is, how it arose, who’s behind it and its purpose . . . Believe me, Social science is not as simple as U.S. Democrat v Republican, or UK Labour v Conservatives and it’s a lack of social and political science knowledge that makes it so easy for the politicians to, using an Americanism, do a number on so many.

Having said all that, unless I get some support here and you all help to reign in the few idiots, I’m not prepared to waste my time here getting abuse and personal insults. Whatever your line of work is, would you spend your time explaining it to such a hostile audience? I’ve already been told on the threads I’m a trouble maker and to go way – it’s your call forum, you decide.

John, please hang in here with us. Not everyone is into mindlessly attacking people just because their opinion differs from his/her own. I think you have a lot to offer the board.

[Abbey Marie]

Spare a thought for what actual liberals have to put up with ;P

Lol, that was actually funny. :laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

John, there were a few jabs taken at you that were unwarranted when you first joined. At that point, the comment(s) didn't add up because you were an unknown factor and it was baseless - and I've seen it happen around here more than once. That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Other times, though, there is a cultural difference and the tone is unintended - the written word is a cold medium.

But unless I missed something, Tyr wasn't attacking you initially. I saw where you two first clashed, and it looked mutual to me. I don't remember the thread or even who took something out of context... and I'm too lazy to go find it. But you two have a rift now, and it's up to you two to either resolve it or engage in a running battle across the entire board with insults. That happens pretty frequently too, unfortunately. I hope you both resolve things or if that isn't possible, ignore each other.

I think people sometimes forget that you can disagree with someone on some issues and still like them - or at least get along somewhat.



To follow up with what Kathi posted...

As far as attacking brand-new members go, nothing pisses me off more than seeing an established member here attack the new guy with insults and snide remarks that are completely baseless - the new member hasn't even said what they believe or what floats their boat, and yet they are being accused and attacked only because they're new.

It's bullshit and it needs to stop. The owner of this board wishes it to grow - and I have personally witnessed roughly 30 new, active members run off because someone is a miserable asshole just in the last 8 months or so.

I've tried to be gentle about it, and then I've been a real prick about it. It gets better after I make a big fucking deal out of it, but then it starts happening again.

Look, everyone has posters that they love, and those they loathe. If someone is at the polar opposite of the spectrum from you, it's real easy to dislike them and unleash the beast. That's cool. I enjoy getting down in the mud as much as anyone when a Nazi wanders in here or a Muzzie starts spewing propaganda. That's what this board is for : to argue with people you don't agree with.

WTF is wrong with letting the new guy announce that he enjoys clubbing kittens before being pounced upon?


:clap:

And I totally agree about Tyr- he's not the type of guy to immediately attack a new member, or gang up for no apparent reason.

[Abbey Marie]

I think that's all easy to say when you are not the new guy being attacked by more than one person. If I go to a new forum, I would hope that I would be given some tiny amount of time to settle in. And if not, I'll move on to a place where I am treated with some civility.

I for one appreciate someone who cares enough to take the time to write about the situation thoughtfully.

And no, I probably wouldn't agree with much of what John says. But this board is called Debate Policy. Not "Everyone who agrees with me, come on in" Policy.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Uh ... no? Exception is taken to your closed-minded arrogance. A conversation with you is like a conversation with my brother ... you do all the talking and preaching and everyone is just supposed to accept what you say as fact. A conversation requires two or more people actually listening to one another rather than one preaching to the others.

Maybe you ought to listen to your own words and try learning something instead of superimposing what you think is "right" on everyone else.



you do all the talking and preaching and everyone is just supposed to accept what you say as fact.

^^^ The first time I disagreed with him on something he sent me a nasty pm making threats.
Methinks you have him pegged right. He wants nobody to dare oppose any idea or judgment he puts forth.
If they dare he comes unglued. I bet he as a teacher is hated by every student but I am not a student and he had better get used to the idea that he does not get to command me .
When you disagreed with him in a very civil manner (I quoted your post as proof they were informative and civil), he went on to say that he'd put you on ignore.
You nailed it with - "closed minded arrogance" as from what I have seen it fits him to a T.

[Jeff]

John, there were a few jabs taken at you that were unwarranted when you first joined. At that point, the comment(s) didn't add up because you were an unknown factor and it was baseless - and I've seen it happen around here more than once. That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Other times, though, there is a cultural difference and the tone is unintended - the written word is a cold medium.

But unless I missed something, Tyr wasn't attacking you initially. I saw where you two first clashed, and it looked mutual to me. I don't remember the thread or even who took something out of context... and I'm too lazy to go find it. But you two have a rift now, and it's up to you two to either resolve it or engage in a running battle across the entire board with insults. That happens pretty frequently too, unfortunately. I hope you both resolve things or if that isn't possible, ignore each other.

I think people sometimes forget that you can disagree with someone on some issues and still like them - or at least get along somewhat.






To follow up with what Kathi posted...

As far as attacking brand-new members go, nothing pisses me off more than seeing an established member here attack the new guy with insults and snide remarks that are completely baseless - the new member hasn't even said what they believe or what floats their boat, and yet they are being accused and attacked only because they're new.

It's bullshit and it needs to stop. The owner of this board wishes it to grow - and I have personally witnessed roughly 30 new, active members run off because someone is a miserable asshole just in the last 8 months or so.

I've tried to be gentle about it, and then I've been a real prick about it. It gets better after I make a big fucking deal out of it, but then it starts happening again.

Look, everyone has posters that they love, and those they loathe. If someone is at the polar opposite of the spectrum from you, it's real easy to dislike them and unleash the beast. That's cool. I enjoy getting down in the mud as much as anyone when a Nazi wanders in here or a Muzzie starts spewing propaganda. That's what this board is for : to argue with people you don't agree with.

WTF is wrong with letting the new guy announce that he enjoys clubbing kittens before being pounced upon?


I have been known to do a lot of stupid things but as of late I have tried to get along with all, and John and I wouldn't even of exchanged words at all if he didn't decide to come into a thread I started and tell me how everyone for a couple thousand of years feels just like he does, I asked if I was reading it right that he felt he was speaking for all and his answer, YEP.

See I wouldn't of had responded to any of the threads John had started or posted in, I didn't find them of any interest so I didn't, John decided to come show me his arrogance, so please lets get off how people attack, this all took place before there where any words with Tyr so lets not point fingers other than to say John if you think it has to be your way or you are leaving, well dont let the door hit you in the arse, if you decide to stay try talking to people not down to them and you may find it a lot easier to get along, just a suggestion.


OOO yea welcome back Gabby.

[Drummond]

My issue has never been with his degrees, intellect, nor anything of the sort. I take issue with his joining the board and immediately preaching what he thinks is right. Kudos to him if he brought himself up by his boot straps. However, success often breeds arrogance and closed-mindedness.

I also take exception to foreigners coming on a US political message board and expecting everyone to immediately understand their views while making no attempt to understand ours. Every port/country we were ever in, we had to understand THEIR rules, not superimpose ours on them. A lot of jarheads got in trouble with the law for thinking otherwise. I was once on an international political message board and I had to understand THEM.

As far as his "warm welcome" from the "clique" goes ... join the club. This board's not as bad as most. ;)

... and I, not least 'as a foreigner' myself, heartily second that bolded part in red. I couldn't agree more.

John V came on here with some set views .. which, of itself, is fair enough, of course. But efforts at debate degenerated, remarkably quickly, into evidence that if you 'crossed' John with your own views, he'd hit back with posts exhibiting an air of superiority against the one having the temerity to disagree. What we've seen over the time of all this posting is sheer arrogance, put-down posts, actual threats made. Around 24 hours ago I was moved to post an observation that what I was reading from him was 'sick'.

It might surprise some people here if I say, as I do, that as a non-American myself, I regard myself as a guest of this forum, one appreciating my acceptance here as someone whose posts are seen to have some value. I say that, fully mindful of the fact that there have been times when I've indulged in some very strong posting of my own.

But here's the point. We should all, so far as I'm concerned, represent ourselves with total honesty. I've said this time and again ! Views, positions, can be best tested on that specific basis, and it leads to the best quality dialogues you can imagine. I've taken on posters who do not post honestly, and I've been fully justified in my countering efforts because of it.

We have this comparable situation with John V. He has his views, but doesn't represent them according to the standards I've just outlined. Counter him, and you get hit with opposition which is increasingly stridently ratcheted up to whatever level he feels will bluster his position to one of 'winning'. This, in more recent posts, has hit the level of personalised threatening.

And I consider that utterly unacceptable. I would hope others here would agree !

One point, to Kathianne. I'm sorry, but I reject your statement ...


John came off very arrogant, though I do think it probably has more to do with the British system of debating

If you witnessed debates in the UK, be they media based or otherwise, Kathianne, I think that if anything you'd regard them as decidedly timid affairs, compared to American equivalents ! There are one or two exceptions, admittedly ... Jeremy Paxman, not least when chairing debates on 'Newsnight' on BBC2, was known for 'rottweiler' tactics. But in the main, British debates are well-mannered, uncontentiously-expressed ones.

But as you say, correctly .. 'John came off very arrogant'. I absolutely agree. And since what I've said is true, this makes John's performance all the more 'remarkable', because this runs AGAINST the British nature. It indicated to me almost from the start that John HAD to have come on here with an agenda, a goal (or goals) he wanted to succeed with, and considering how his debates have progressed, I interpret it as a broadly anti-American one.

I think he considers his worldview, and outlook that underpins it, as vastly superior to what he perceives as its American counterpart .. and he's come on here to 'teach you a thing or two'. His ego being what it is, he is in no mood to tolerate posts which offer opposition of any strength to that agenda. So it is that John has now, actually, degenerated into threats to 'win out'.

Going back to Gunny's point, he's absolutely correct. If I had posted as John has, I'd expect to be kicked off of here. The fact is that I consider the 'attack dog' stuff that John has indulged in, so quickly, considering especially WHY he has, as way beyond 'acceptable'.

I want John to remain, IF he will now be prepared to be more receptive to others' thoughts and feelings, and will END all this 'I am superior' arrogance. And let's have some honesty ! Admit what REALLY drives you, John, so that we can all have a better approach to dealing with the root of it.

-- AND QUIT THE THREATS !!

[tailfins]

John, it's a small group of active members here and the definition of "liberal" to some is pretty broad. so don't take it to seriously.

Anyone who doesn't agree with a kind of grassroots neo-conservativism loosely defined by the the following positions is often negatively tag "LIBERAL" or "LEFTIST" and sometimes a "hater of America".

•American greatness is measured by our willingness to be a great power—through vast and virtually unlimited global military involvement.
•ANYTHING goes in foreign policy. And the U.S. can do no wrong if the purposes are to protect americans or american interest. and "promote freedom".
•Israel is never wrong.
•Capitalism is the best and anything good for big corps is good for america. And all large U.S businesses basically do no wrong and should not be questioned, nor their officials jailed. But workers, unions and customers are often unreasonable and selfish.
•Supports Religious ideals in gov't sometimes... but is not always. (we have to be realistic and torture people at times you know)
•Often Pro-life but not always.
•Anti Gay marriage
•Anti the global warming agenda
•Anti illegal immigration
•Demand others only support the Republican party no matter how liberal the candidates voting record. (or your helping the LEFT)
•Supports the the 2nd amendment without question and all other amendments depending on if a leading republican has made excuses or laws, or has broken it already.
•Says they support the constitution unconditionally and 100%, but allow caveats, bad supreme court decisions and creative readings as needed.
•Muslims are bad, and the ones that say they are moderate a lying because the Koran says they can.
•Police are good and rarely if ever do any wrong. And those that question them simply are liberal, hate Police and just want lawlessness and rioting.
•W. Bush was a great president who may have made a few minor mistakes but ultimately was a great president and great man
•Reagan was nearly perfect in every way. Thatcher as Golden.
•love minorities and speak well of them on every occasion....cough.

John If you don't align with the above then you MIGHT be a Liberal or Leftist.:dunno:

I'm waiting to hear how my appreciation for the Muslim approach on women and homosexuals makes me a liberal. Halal meat is pretty darn tasty too.

[NightTrain]

I have been known to do a lot of stupid things but as of late I have tried to get along with all, and John and I wouldn't even of exchanged words at all if he didn't decide to come into a thread I started and tell me how everyone for a couple thousand of years feels just like he does, I asked if I was reading it right that he felt he was speaking for all and his answer, YEP.

See I wouldn't of had responded to any of the threads John had started or posted in, I didn't find them of any interest so I didn't, John decided to come show me his arrogance, so please lets get off how people attack, this all took place before there where any words with Tyr so lets not point fingers other than to say John if you think it has to be your way or you are leaving, well dont let the door hit you in the arse, if you decide to stay try talking to people not down to them and you may find it a lot easier to get along, just a suggestion.

I saw what happened in your thread, Jeff. And I've never seen you attack a new member.

You weren't who I was speaking about, and I wasn't referring to Tyr, either, as I already pointed out.

[tailfins]

I saw what happened in your thread, Jeff. And I've never seen you attack a new member.

You weren't who I was speaking about, and I wasn't referring to Tyr, either, as I already pointed out.

For the record, I'm glad the Russian guys are here.

[Jeff]

I saw what happened in your thread, Jeff. And I've never seen you attack a new member.

You weren't who I was speaking about, and I wasn't referring to Tyr, either, as I already pointed out.

NT all is cool with us, I used your post to make my reply because your post was mellow and to the point, I thought maybe if John see's what made folks angry in a mellow way ( go along with your post ) maybe he could tone it down, I think there is room for John here I just believe he has to realize we all have opinions right or wrong they are ours.

[revelarts]

For the record, I'm glad the Russian guys are here.

me too,
even if they are Putin Propaganda shift workers. :smoke:

I miss Jafar and the other muslim guy (the rich kid from Egypt), spider tuba, and that guy with the Sarah Palin Icon and Lemongrass. Plus a few others. Made the place more diverse and interesting. But they left or were run off by the local mob. It's not that i agreed with everything they said but who comes to a debate forum expecting to agree all the time or have their view echoed all the time ?:whistling2:

I don't get why people feel the need to make so many comments personal if they disagree w someone. And then why others want to pile on. it's like a mob mentality.
Sure it's hard not to reply by name calling an unreasoned attacks if you see something you really don't like but it's not impossible. Plus when so many people who say thier Christians decide that they can do nothing but name call and pile on, well it's just weird IMO. It's not like you can't take a deep breath and walk away from the computer/phone for a minute before you reply. if you have a condition there might be a good excuse but other than that, just back off and take a break and come back with a response your mom, kids and Jesus could read and think that your decent folk. Seems to me.

[Gunny]

Spare a thought for what actual liberals have to put up with ;P

When you become an actual liberal instead of just misusing the term, be sure and let us know. Hint: Being a panty-waist whiner trying to play martyr on a message board is NOT it.

[Noir]

When you become an actual liberal instead of just misusing the term, be sure and let us know. Hint: Being a panty-waist whiner trying to play martyr on a message board is NOT it.

This forum is a blessing ^,^

[Gunny]

This forum is a blessing ^,^

You wouldn't know what a liberal was if one fell out of the sky because his chute wouldn't open and landed on your head.

[John V]

Round one
Comments:
‘Egoist, threatening, closed-minded, arrogance, foreigners . . .’ There’s a lot of hate on this forum.
Thoughts:
‘If you think you will ever be accepted for your viewpoints here, you are sadly mistaken.’
Sound advice:
‘John V, take my advice and go somewhere else. Your ideas are not acceptable here.’

Exception is taken to your closed-minded arrogance.
OK, ‘HOO-RARya Godamn commie liberals’. Is that better, less closed minded?

Favourite post: Night train, post 22, page 2
Most thought provoking post: Abbey, post 28, page 2

Reply:
No, I’m sorry folks, I’ve never been prepared to integrate with the ideas of others to be ‘accepted’. I’m not a nodding dog conformant on ‘our forum’ and I’ve already apologised previously for my manner, which many mistake for arrogance.
In the same way that I wouldn’t be here if everyone thought like me, there’s not much point being here if my views have to echo those of a vocal minority. (See ‘Thoughts’ and ‘Sound advice ‘ above).
Personally and no offence, but I detest liberal thought. Yet the nicest people that I’ve encountered here have liberal leanings and/or those who are ‘middle of the road’. The nastiest are those with nationalist views equal to the right wing BNP in the UK.

I can understand the frustration of the moderators, who whilst wanting to open up and increase the membership of the forum, find that people leave or membership doesn’t increase because of a small but vocal minority. It’s often bland debate because unless it’s a largely consensus view, the majority are too frightened to say anything for fear of being jumped on. I hope I livened it up a bit; you can go back to sleep now, America is safe and the threat has been neutralised, but don’t forget to post a double guard on that introduction thread http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/smilies/smile.png (Sorry, just a bit of light hearted flippancy).
Tighten up, break up the clique, introduce three day exile bans to ‘stormfront’ to cool down . . . for every one of these clowns you lose, I’ll bet you gain ten new members.

[Kathianne]

John, whatever you decide I'm pretty certain we can all go about our ways. Good luck!

[indago]

You wouldn't know what a liberal was if one fell out of the sky because his chute wouldn't open and landed on your head.

Is that what happened to you?

[Gunny]

Is that what happened to you?

I truly mean this as nicely as possible .... Go fuck yourself, pissant. Don't you have some police to whine like a little baby about?

[indago]

I truly mean this as nicely as possible .... Go fuck yourself, pissant. Don't you have some police to whine like a little baby about?

Really grates on you doesn't it...

http://i38.tinypic.com/232ohc.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Round one
Comments:
‘Egoist, threatening, closed-minded, arrogance, foreigners . . .’ There’s a lot of hate on this forum.
Thoughts:
‘If you think you will ever be accepted for your viewpoints here, you are sadly mistaken.’
Sound advice:
‘John V, take my advice and go somewhere else. Your ideas are not acceptable here.’

Exception is taken to your closed-minded arrogance.
OK, ‘HOO-RARya Godamn commie liberals’. Is that better, less closed minded?

Favourite post: Night train, post 22, page 2
Most thought provoking post: Abbey, post 28, page 2

Reply:
No, I’m sorry folks, I’ve never been prepared to integrate with the ideas of others to be ‘accepted’. I’m not a nodding dog conformant on ‘our forum’ and I’ve already apologised previously for my manner, which many mistake for arrogance.
In the same way that I wouldn’t be here if everyone thought like me, there’s not much point being here if my views have to echo those of a vocal minority. (See ‘Thoughts’ and ‘Sound advice ‘ above).
Personally and no offence, but I detest liberal thought. Yet the nicest people that I’ve encountered here have liberal leanings and/or those who are ‘middle of the road’. The nastiest are those with nationalist views equal to the right wing BNP in the UK.

I can understand the frustration of the moderators, who whilst wanting to open up and increase the membership of the forum, find that people leave or membership doesn’t increase because of a small but vocal minority. It’s often bland debate because unless it’s a largely consensus view, the majority are too frightened to say anything for fear of being jumped on. I hope I livened it up a bit; you can go back to sleep now, America is safe and the threat has been neutralised, but don’t forget to post a double guard on that introduction thread http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/smilies/smile.png (Sorry, just a bit of light hearted flippancy).
Tighten up, break up the clique, introduce three day exile bans to ‘stormfront’ to cool down . . . for every one of these clowns you lose, I’ll bet you gain ten new members.


Tighten up, break up the clique, introduce three day exile bans to ‘stormfront’ to cool down . . . for every one of these clowns you lose, I’ll bet you gain ten new members.

^^^^^ Your way or the highway , eh?
You march in here to demand that any that may oppose any part(no matter how small) of your agenda be silenced.

I noted and gave evidence how quickly you went after me for opposing your anti-American views on America's Exceptionalism.
I also gave evidence that I had not stalked you attacking you or criticizing your words--instead I thanked every post you made that I HAD READ UP TO THAT POINT.
Every time I ask that you present evidence of the accusations you make --you dodge and present nothing.
That clearly shows you are lying . Present the quotes by me in which I was hounding and insulting you(any before you pm'ed me with a threat).
You can not do so because you lied about it and use every trick available to paint any that dare opose any of your words as they being black, while you are a white knight. Utter rubbish.
You can not stand any opposition so may be best you cry like a child and then demand admin give you your way and that admin here actually go the stormfront route!

Now explain how it is -part of your job.--Tyr
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
Drummond, part of my job involves spotting nit-pickers, baiters and those with such a poor level of knowledge that they latch on to other posters but never put their own ideas out for others to see. The Telegraph is media, now if that, google and Wiki is where you get your info from it makes a poor showing. I have you down as a typical product of a UK leftie liberal, integrating yourself with the mainstream because you are unable to articulate anything yourself. I’m not critical of America, I’m critical of every country, its politicians and their policies – it’s what I do for a living.


Now, I’ll tell you what will impress me. Away you go and write a short 1000 word essay on any aspect of the political or social topic of your choice. Post it, no google, no quotes, (we can usually spot plagiarism), in your own words and using your own explanations. Now go away and impress me, I’ll give you an honest opinion and if I was wrong about you, I’ll admit it.
Drummond, part of my job involves spotting nit-pickers, baiters and those with such a poor level of knowledge that they latch on to other posters but never put their own ideas out for others to see.

^^^^ Care to tell us how doing that is part of your job teaching foreign students about social science?-Tyr




part of my job involves spotting nit-pickers, baiters and those with such a poor level of knowledge

^^^ Really--you do that in a classroom of foreign students??-Tyr




that they latch on to other posters

^^^^ So the students you teach are doing that, latching on to other posters?
AND ITS PART OF YOUR JOB!??--Tyr


I think you may have stepped in it and not kept your story straight about what you said you do. -Tyr[/QUOTE]

Sure seems like you greatly misrepresent yourself.
And now you cry out to ban members , etc.....
Because what? You can save this place, how great(:laugh:)
I am sure with your ego you believe it but you are a fraud and it shows, you jumped Jeff, you jumped gunny, you also went after AT
THEN the first time I disagree with you , you came after me --sent a threatening pm to me warning me and making demands.
Thus, I warned you in reply---- I don't take warnings nor do I do demands.

Man up or leave, matters not to me.
Know this, if you want the kind of control that you NOW DEMAND BE GIVEN TO YOU--START YOUR OWN FORUM..
I BELIEVE JIM OWNS THIS ONE ...

Jeff pegged you right, so did Gunny. Now I have you pegged, an egotist of the highest caliber ..
Do not send me another pm, be it threatening or not. You are messing with the wrong man dummy.
I don't play....-Tyr

[Gunny]

Really grates on you doesn't it...

http://i38.tinypic.com/232ohc.jpg

That you're a crybaby? Nah. I actually find it amusing that you attempt to ascribe your emotional failures onto others. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Tyr and John and all:

I'm speaking only for myself, I'm sure it seems like 'staff' went to bat for new members, John included. I think the 'old members' understand why, even if they disagree. I think we were all pretty upfront that we wish to attract new members, for many reasons.

With that stated, when push comes to shove, we respect all and are not going to 'punish' anyone for speaking their minds.

At this point it sounded to me with John's reply he may be moving on, as I stated, Good luck! No loss if he wanted more interventions-wasn't happening.

Giving new members a few days to 'settle in' isn't kowtowing. Asking older members to not try to get rid of new members, particularly in 'introduction threads' whether or not in the correct forum isn't being punitive.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr and John and all:

I'm speaking only for myself, I'm sure it seems like 'staff' went to bat for new members, John included. I think the 'old members' understand why, even if they disagree. I think we were all pretty upfront that we wish to attract new members, for many reasons.

With that stated, when push comes to shove, we respect all and are not going to 'punish' anyone for speaking their minds.

At this point it sounded to me with John's reply he may be moving on, as I stated, Good luck! No loss if he wanted more interventions-wasn't happening.

Giving new members a few days to 'settle in' isn't kowtowing. Asking older members to not try to get rid of new members, particularly in 'introduction threads' whether or not in the correct forum isn't being punitive.

Speaking only for myself..
Introduction thread should not be used to intimidate or insult any member be they new or old member IMHO.
Yet after a member hits the lower boards we all should give them time to get their feet wet and not hit 'em(if at all) until they've acclimated a bit.
However new members should not be allowed to issue "false accusations" against standing members just because they disagree with their views.
This John V did and also topped it off by sending me a threatening pm--
I don't respond well to threats(I am a Neanderthal man in that respect) and I do not do demands! Not ever!

JohnV can stay or go but what he doesn't get is an enslaved audience that must bow to him.. To me thats what he wanted and by his parting post --thats what he demanded.
How very liberal of him (this self proclaimed genius) to suggest ALL his opposition be silenced, perhaps he formerly worked as a KGB TOO.;)

Thanks Kat for a great post and as always dedicated and strong stand..-Tyr

[Jeff]

I thought I explained myself rather nicely without attacking just telling the truth, I even offered some advice to help make things work. But did you notice I am not even mentioned in round one :laugh: nope all John wanted anyone to hear was his side and how bad people are hear, this kind of proves the point people are trying to make, so I am like Kat, good Luck to you, and ooo yea, don't let the door hit you in the arse.

[Kathianne]

I think John's thread has served its purpose. He got to see comments. With that I'm closing, there's no purpose in continuing. He stays or goes.

[jimnyc]

I can understand the frustration of the moderators, who whilst wanting to open up and increase the membership of the forum, find that people leave or membership doesn’t increase because of a small but vocal minority. It’s often bland debate because unless it’s a largely consensus view, the majority are too frightened to say anything for fear of being jumped on. I hope I livened it up a bit; you can go back to sleep now, America is safe and the threat has been neutralised, but don’t forget to post a double guard on that introduction thread :) (Sorry, just a bit of light hearted flippancy).
Tighten up, break up the clique, introduce three day exile bans to ‘stormfront’ to cool down . . . for every one of these clowns you lose, I’ll bet you gain ten new members.

Bear with me as I'm still going through this particular thread, but wanted to respond to this post for now. If it's a "small" but vocal group, it should only take seconds to place them on ignore. Problem solved for those members that feel this group is an issue to them. Freedom of speech for ALL would remain on this board, and yet the "issue" is resolved for those that still have a problem. And this is a problem I've had for a LONG time, John, referring to the ignore feature. Many decide to go the "my way or the highway approach" instead of taking a few seconds to place someone on their ignore list and then just enjoying the board.

My suggestion, John? I think we have an awesome group of folks here, probably even those you don't like thus far. But that's cool, not everyone will always get along. Place those few that make you not want to be here on ignore, and then move forward. You would be surprised what a mixture there really is here. Sure, no hardcore liberals, but still never short of disagreements and debates here.

[jimnyc]

In case you have yet to figure it out, this is not a place that freely accepts liberal ideas. DP is a forum for conservative posters to espouse right-wing opinions and ideology.
If you post liberal ideas here, you are going to get attacked. You will be subject to abuse and personal insults. You will be labeled as an un-American troublemaker and told where to go.
I know this because I have been a liberal on DP for more than a decade. I don't advise other liberal thinkers to come here. Because most are not as tolerant as me.

John V., I have been reading some of your posts. I believe DP's opposition to you comes not as much from your political views as your arrogance. You can't walk into a forum that has been around for more than a decade and accept it to change according to your whims. It's not going to happen. If you think you will ever be accepted for your viewpoints here, you are sadly mistaken.
So why would you spend your time explaining yourself to such a hostile audience? You don't have to. It's your choice.
If you stay here, you can expect more of the same. The idiots will never be reigned in. As a matter of fact, the idiots will become even more idiotic. Because they are encouraged to do so. That is what political discourse on non-moderated internet forums is about.
There is safety and power in numbers. Conservatives are the numbers on DP.

Let's set up an example in line with those you presented in your original post in this thread.
Suppose you walk up to a large group of people that are verbally abusing and threatening a single person because of their appearance and ideas. If you start defending the lone person, the mob is going to turn on you as well. You're not going to change anyone's mind on your own.

John V, take my advice and go somewhere else. Your ideas are not acceptable here. Neither is your arrogance and insolence toward other members.

Odd that I had already started a thread, concerned with where you were and how things were. Odd that others have asked about you - and I defended you. For whatever reason, I've always defended you, outside of our personal arguments of course.

But you never could separate individuals from the "board". Are some perhaps as you describe? Probably. But are ALL members like that to you, Gabby? We don't reign in members when they actually break the rules? Because I find that odd, as you OFTEN would applaud me for doing so, even when it was my own family who was breaking the rules. The fact is, I try to promote freedom of speech while enforcing the rules the best I can. When personal issues, I try to get the members to ignore one another, as generally no rules were broken. How many people have YOU placed on ignore?

And please, save me the "you should be doing this or that and banning..." Banning people who don't like one another isn't the answer either. I've given multiple ways for people to respond to personal issues, and to get rid of it. But some would rather drop it in MY lap when they can take care of the issue themselves.

But as you state these things to John - make sure you include how you told me YEARS AGO that the sole reason you come here was to piss people off. You have told this to several people. So what's the deal, Gabby? Should I stop sticking up for you? IS your only goal to come here and rile people up as you have stated? Why do you state things about bans on one day, and then deter new members from coming here by stating the complete opposite to them?

[jimnyc]

Just realized this thread was closed (staff can still reply). Gabby/John - you are free to shoot me a PM or even start a new thread to reply to me, in the lounge section. John, I'm sorry if you have chosen to leave before I had a chance to reply, but it sounded like your mind was made up prior to making this thread. Gabby, I just don't know what to say. I thought you were MIA and perhaps something was wrong, as you kinda just disappeared, from my POV. I still hope all is well, but I don't think I'll rush to defend you any more.