American Exceptionalism: Is it a fact or a myth? [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

05-28-2015, 07:13 PM

http://www.search4clarity.com/american-exceptionalism/perspective/conservative

AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM FROM A CONSERVATIVE VIEWPOINT

Written by Sally Pitts

1. Conservatives believe that America, as a country, is unique and is exceptional in very many ways. We believe that from the start, we were exceptional because we were a country built on ideas, values, democratic principles, a passion for freedom and most importantly (for Jews and Christians) on country built on Biblical truths. No other country in the world originated from this combination of inspiring factors.

Conservatives believe that America is still exceptional because the majority of people in America still have a passion for freedom, a respect for the self worth of every person and a desire to strive for goodness, all of which the majority of American still believe came from God. Conservatives also believe that America has done more good in the world for other people than any other country. This “good” includes gifts from private organizations and government organizations such as food, supplies, education, training, financial contributions, assistance in overcoming injustices and it includes American men and women sacrificing their lives to help countries gain their freedom from evil dictators and tyrants. America has been promoting more good in the world for other countries, while protecting our country from serious long-term threats. Although America hasn’t been perfect, Conservatives believe that it has definitely been a force for good.

Conservatives believe that America has been exceptional for its citizens as well. Over the years, our system of Government has allowed us to correct the wrongs in our country; slavery being the very worst of all of our mistakes. In America, even our poor have lived better lives than average or above average people in other countries. Conservatives believe that this is because of the freedoms that we enjoy and our free enterprise system that has encouraged Americans to discover the American Dream, all of which were originally inspired by God. If America is as bad or even as average as some Liberals would want you to believe, then why are so many people from so many other countries still trying to get into America?

2. Liberals often get embarrassed when they hear comments about America being exceptional. Many Liberals think that it sounds arrogant for Americans to think of America as exceptional. Often they try diffusing the statement by saying “every country thinks that it is exceptional” or “every country is exceptional”. Liberals often go out of their way to try to say that America is no different from other countries.

Liberals also seem to find more faults with America than do Conservatives and focus on America’s mistakes more than its accomplishments. Many Liberals associate themselves more as global citizens, than they do as Americans. In doing so, they try to minimize America’s greatness. Many Liberals tend to look at other cultures with high regard and focus on the negatives they see in our culture.

Response: Some of the accolades given to Communist countries are at best naïve and at worst anti-American. It amazes me that Liberals can see other cultures and totally ignore the lack of freedom for their citizens and yet, somehow elevate them up as a system to model after.

Sometimes I think that Liberals would like to see America come down a few notches so that we are more equal to the rest of the world.

Response: Conservatives would rather see America help other countries to come up in the world and increase their economic opportunities and increase their freedom, rather than America dropping a few notches. Conservatives believe that any country can achieve what America has achieved and they can do it in ways that even improve on our way of life if they learn from our mistakes.

Bottom line; many Liberals don’t believe that America was or is now exceptional.

Are we deceiving ourselves about the greatness of this nation. About its contributions to the world?
Or about America saving the world by its fighting in WW2?
Its advancement in science , technology , space exploration, and medicine?

Many see it as arrogance but is it? Does enough evidence exist to validate the claim of "American Exceptionalism?
My judgment is it is a truth. Whether or not we should flaunt it is another matter entirely.
Perhaps it is a good comeback when some foreign bore (usually European :laugh:) gets too uppity and mouths off about their long history and achievements. -Tyr

Balu

05-28-2015, 07:24 PM

Are we deceiving ourselves about the greatness of this nation. About its contributions to the world?
Or about America saving the world by its fighting in WW2?
Its advancement in science , technology , space exploration, and medicine?

Many see it as arrogance but is it? Does enough evidence exist to validate the claim of "American Exceptionalism?
My judgment is it is a truth. Whether or not we should flaunt it is another matter entirely.
Perhaps it is a good comeback when some foreign bore (usually European :laugh:) gets too uppity and mouths off about their long history and achievements. -Tyr
History gave us an example of Exceptionalism in Europe. They also had a lot of achievements in many fields. It cost too much for many countries in the middle of the previous Century. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

John V

05-28-2015, 07:30 PM

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

05-28-2015, 07:38 PM

History gave us an example of Exceptionalism in Europe. They also had a lot of achievements in many fields. It cost too much for many countries in the middle of the previous Century. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/sad.gif

What costs and did the costs far out-weight the gains?-Tyr

Balu

05-28-2015, 07:42 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/04/obama-on-exceptionalism/9874/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/04/obama-on-exceptionalism/9874/)
"I believe in American exceptionalism," Obama said after one beat for thought. "Just as the Brits believe in British exceptionalism, and the Greeks in Greek exceptionalism..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5BjNDg5W0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5BjNDg5W0) (2.18 minutes)
From Obama’s own mouth speaking to the UN.
At 1.20 minutes, ‘. . . but I believe America is exceptional.’

Radical Islamics also consider themselves "exceptional". The result is - ISIS and terrorism.
I think that conviction and believing in own exceptionalism is a very dangerous think, which always causes many troubles.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

05-28-2015, 07:43 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/04/obama-on-exceptionalism/9874/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/04/obama-on-exceptionalism/9874/)
"I believe in American exceptionalism," Obama said after one beat for thought. "Just as the Brits believe in British exceptionalism, and the Greeks in Greek exceptionalism..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5BjNDg5W0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5BjNDg5W0) (2.18 minutes)
From Obama’s own mouth speaking to the UN.
At 1.20 minutes, ‘. . . but I believe America is exceptional.’

Here is your chance to back up your criticism of "American Exceptionalism"--yet you link to the obama.
Strange behavior from one that admitted to so much ignorance about America in one thread.
If you think it is a lie, then cite your case.
But do not give me obama quotes as if anybody with any sense should pay attention to that total lying fraud..
When you do that you show your massive ignorance on the subject at hand for most to see here IMHO.. -Tyr

Balu

05-28-2015, 08:09 PM

American Exceptionalism: Is it a fact or a myth? (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49901-American-Exceptionalism-Is-it-a-fact-or-a-myth)I would answer looking from aside - This is neither fact, nor myth. This is American ideology, resulting the American policy - to impose everywhere own values and lifestyle, suppressing that of the others.

revelarts

05-28-2015, 08:53 PM

Interesting that America started free and Christian and is a combo of nearly all the peoples of the world though isn't it?
But i have to say whenever i hear the term "american exceptionalism" i think of these verses.
............
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18

Daniel 4:
17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’...
....
34 I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored.
Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”
..........
God granted Israel blessing, strength over their enemies, prosperity and peace as it humbled itself before God.
But He didn't spare it once it left the path and got the big head.

GOD is Exceptional. If we walk with him we'll be exceptionally blessed in some form as well.
but God sends his rain on the good and the evil as well.
America is exceptionally blessed , ok i'm with you there!
but beyond that... mmm..
well i'll take a few steps away from anyone who beat their chest about how great we are, I don't want to be struck by lightening with you.

Polite Russian

05-29-2015, 04:00 AM

Kathianne

05-29-2015, 06:05 AM

Funny thing, I grew up with the idea that "American exceptionalism" really isn't something that was to be exported or remotely nationalistic. It wasn't based on religious beliefs or lack of those. While I can't quite reach back to my earliest thoughts I do know they were based upon the natural resources and diversity of this land; the unique happenstance of the peoples that came here and several running themes that they had in common; the eventual political underpinnings that gave birth to what eventually would lead to independence and a new way of seeing a government by the people.

I don't remember hearing the term until high school, when I first encountered de Tocqueville's, "Democracy In America." I don't think that he actually used the term, though the book is replete with the use of the word 'exceptional.' The term and the book are both illuminating though of the many blessings the country has and the problems that faced the very diversified and ambitious people that found themselves in a land awash in richness of resources with none of the strictures of primogeniture that was the law of the old world.

There is no glossing over of the difficulties faced by those in those early years; or by those who thought the riches would be easily gained. This has always been a very 'hard' country to be poor in, though for those with ambition and willing to work, the possibilities of moving from the bottom to top could be accomplished by one person within a generation. That is and always has been 'exceptional.' As always, there are exceptions to the rule: those that were displaced, Native Americans and those that were exploited, slaves, Chinese workers, etc.

Those exceptions though are not the subject of this post-dealing with the fallout of those would be an interesting thread though.

What has always struck me about his work is the segue between Book 1 and Book 2, where he ruminates of the similarity between the US and the Russian Empire in natural resources and an ambitious people that populate both. He speculated that the coming century might well see a competition between these peoples.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm#link2HCH0054

...There are, at the present time, two great nations in the world which seem to tend towards the same end, although they started from different points: I allude to the Russians and the Americans. Both of them have grown up unnoticed; and whilst the attention of mankind was directed elsewhere, they have suddenly assumed a most prominent place amongst the nations; and the world learned their existence and their greatness at almost the same time.

All other nations seem to have nearly reached their natural limits, and only to be charged with the maintenance of their power; but these are still in the act of growth; *r all the others are stopped, or continue to advance with extreme difficulty; these are proceeding with ease and with celerity along a path to which the human eye can assign no term. The American struggles against the natural obstacles which oppose him; the adversaries of the Russian are men; the former combats the wilderness and savage life; the latter, civilization with all its weapons and its arts: the conquests of the one are therefore gained by the ploughshare; those of the other by the sword. The Anglo-American relies upon personal interest to accomplish his ends, and gives free scope to the unguided exertions and common-sense of the citizens; the Russian centres all the authority of society in a single arm: the principal instrument of the former is freedom; of the latter servitude. Their starting-point is different, and their courses are not the same; yet each of them seems to be marked out by the will of Heaven to sway the destinies of half the globe.

r
[ Russia is the country in the Old World in which population increases most rapidly in proportion.]

Caliban

05-29-2015, 06:48 AM

Every country that achieves some degree of international power and influence comes to see itself as 'exceptional' at some point. The British at the height of their empire in the late 19th century certainly did. Germany after 1870 did. 19th and early 20th century Russia with its mystical doctrine of Pan-Slavism did. And probably most loudly (and in some ways annoyingly) the French did, thinking France coterminous with the very idea of Western civilization itself.

America has its own brand of exceptionalism, which became very strong after 1945, but was there since at least Andrew Jackson's time.

No country is exceptional unless it makes a conscious collective effort to live up to the ideals implied in its exceptionalism. The minute you cease doing that, you are no longer exceptional.

Needless to say, the age of Obama--especially if it is followed by the age of Hilary--will be regarded a sad time when American exceptionalism has taken a severe beating and thrown into a dumpster. Let's hope that someone can show up and restore it to its rightful place.

Soon.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

05-29-2015, 07:33 AM

I believe, that Americans are great nation. Your country is very young, but you did a lot for the technological progress. But about Exceptionalism.. Well, every nation exceptionally in its culture, history and so on. You are greater, than many, but not exceptional. Balu said a good thing about ideologies like that.

People must unite against common enemies. I believe russia and usa could be a great allies. If we unite - nobody could stop us. It's very bad, that our countries have serious controversy..

as i as I told earlier, in another tread, I dream about usa and russian soldiers fight together against radical Islamists :)
http://www.debatepolicy.com/webkit-fake-url://79e0520c-a585-4b24-baff-3f5637bc2b2d/imagejpeg
http://www.debatepolicy.com/webkit-fake-url://d3928ef3-1acf-4abd-abdb-bb6f8f242240/imagejpeg

as i as I told earlier, in another tread, I dream about usa and russian soldiers fight together against radical Islamists

Sad, but that day may come far too soon. However as of now Russia uses the muslim menace against us to advance its standing in the M.E.
Putin will find out that such murdering zealots(can never be trusted) and can be stopped in only one way... extermination..
I am shocked that he has not been far more inclined to exercise that solution to those in Russia . As he has no major thing stopping him IMHO.-Tyr

Balu

05-29-2015, 08:40 AM

Sad, but that day may come far too soon. However as of now Russia uses the muslin menace against us to advance its standing in the M.E.
Putin will find out that such murdering zealots(can never be trusted) and can be stopped in only one way... extermination..
I am shocked that he has not been far more inclined to exercise that solution to those in Russia . As he has no major thing stopping him IMHO.-Tyr
You want to say that Russia supports muslin menace in the M.E.? Strange statement if to compare the situation in Libya, Iraq and Syria before US interference into their internal affairs, and supporting then one of the conflicting parties. May be you want me to remind you who created ISIS?

Newly-Declassified U.S. Government Documents: The West Supported the Creation of ISIS

...In other words, the powers supporting the Syrian opposition – the West, our Gulf allies, and Turkey wanted an Islamic caliphate in order to challenge Syrian president Assad.

Sure, top U.S. generals (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/top-u-s-generals-american-allies-support-isis.html) – and vice president Vice President Joe Biden (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w04YE5zRmc8#t=67) – have said that America’s closest allies support ISIS. And mainstream American media have called for direct support of ISIS (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/mainstream-media-calls-supporting-al-qaeda-isis.).
But the declassified DIA documents show that the U.S. and the West supported ISIS at its inception … as a way to isolate the Syrian government. ...
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-declassified-u-s-government-documents-the-west-supported-the-creation-of-isis.html

sundaydriver

05-29-2015, 10:17 AM

Balu

05-29-2015, 11:20 AM

I believe in American exceptionalism. I believe this not because of our natural bounty, work ethic, or religious freedom.
It is due to being an American is an ideology that promotes individualism and democracy which brings us together for the betterment of our nation rather than nationalism or tribalism.

Although it seems a lot of tribalism is dragging us backwards at the moment.

It sounds fine, but one thing - basing on such a confidence Americans are trying to cut the whole world in their patterns. Have you ever heard about Procrustes and his bed and what finally happened to him? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

aboutime

05-29-2015, 03:07 PM

It sounds fine, but one thing - basing on such a confidence Americans are trying to cut the whole world in their patterns. Have you ever heard about Procrustes and his bed and what finally happened to him? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/smile3.gif

Really Balu? So, since you sound so negative about Americans offering confidence in making the World in the American pattern. Does that mean. If an AMERICAN (like me, for instance) OFFERED to pay your way to come to America, and become a citizen as the ONLY requirement...YOU WOULD REFUSE?

Can you further explain WHY...so many Millions of people from Around the World are trying to come, and stay in America? YET...very few are trying to LEAVE America???

Just a few questions that I would like you to take as the ANSWER to your question about PROCRUSTES.

In Greek mythology, Procrustes (Προκρούστης) or "the stretcher [who hammers out the metal]", also known as Prokoptas or Damastes (Δαμαστής) "subduer", was a rogue smith and bandit from Attica who physically attacked people by stretching them or cutting off their legs, so as to force them to fit the size of an iron bed. In general, when something is Procrustean, different lengths or sizes or properties are fitted to an arbitrary standard.

Caliban

05-30-2015, 01:14 AM

Drummond

05-30-2015, 01:55 AM

I believe, that Americans are great nation. Your country is very young, but you did a lot for the technological progress. But about Exceptionalism.. Well, every nation exceptionally in its culture, history and so on. You are greater, than many, but not exceptional. Balu said a good thing about ideologies like that.

People must unite against common enemies. I believe russia and usa could be a great allies. If we unite - nobody could stop us. It's very bad, that our countries have serious controversy..

as i as I told earlier, in another tread, I dream about usa and russian soldiers fight together against radical Islamists :)
http://www.debatepolicy.com/webkit-fake-url://79e0520c-a585-4b24-baff-3f5637bc2b2d/imagejpeg
http://www.debatepolicy.com/webkit-fake-url://d3928ef3-1acf-4abd-abdb-bb6f8f242240/imagejpeg

I like much of what you said in that post.

But one example of what made America exceptional was that their entry into WWII, not just to fight the Japanese, but Hitler's Reich in Europe, put them in the position of tipping the balance decisively in the Allies' favour.

Did America actually need to fight in Europe ? I'm not aware that they did. But they did it, ANYWAY.

The truth of that speaks to a greater truth. Then, as well as in future conflicts, Americans have fought in the service of freedom and liberty. Not necessarily out of practical need that would specifically benefit them, but selflessly, because IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. And in so doing, their people laid their lives on the line ... for what they believed in, what they stood for, represented as a nation. Great sacrifices resulted, in the service of what was right and decent.

Try to prove to me that this is NOT clear proof of an exceptional nation ! I believe you will fail.

Polite Russian

05-30-2015, 03:14 AM

I like much of what you said in that post.

But one example of what made America exceptional was that their entry into WWII, not just to fight the Japanese, but Hitler's Reich in Europe, put them in the position of tipping the balance decisively in the Allies' favour.

Did America actually need to fight in Europe ? I'm not aware that they did. But they did it, ANYWAY.

The truth of that speaks to a greater truth. Then, as well as in future conflicts, Americans have fought in the service of freedom and liberty. Not necessarily out of practical need that would specifically benefit them, but selflessly, because IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. And in so doing, their people laid their lives on the line ... for what they believed in, what they stood for, represented as a nation. Great sacrifices resulted, in the service of what was right and decent.

Try to prove to me that this is NOT clear proof of an exceptional nation ! I believe you will fail.

I could try, but I do not believe as my success.. Not because I have nothing against, but because my English eloquence is not so good to prove such things. and I do not know, what kind of proof can I offer :)
________
i do believe, that your soldiers really fight for freedom and liberty. But I do not believe, that your government send your troops really to protect this values.

Balu

05-30-2015, 03:30 AM

Really Balu? So, since you sound so negative about Americans offering confidence in making the World in the American pattern. Does that mean. If an AMERICAN (like me, for instance) OFFERED to pay your way to come to America, and become a citizen as the ONLY requirement...YOU WOULD REFUSE?

Sure I would. A am very much homesick when abroad, among estranges, where everything is foreign, and you're no use to anyone. In my life I visited very many countries to be become sure - "East or West, Home is best."

Balu

05-30-2015, 03:42 AM

In Greek mythology, Procrustes (Προκρούστης) or "the stretcher [who hammers out the metal]", also known as Prokoptas or Damastes (Δαμαστής) "subduer", was a rogue smith and bandit from Attica who physically attacked people by stretching them or cutting off their legs, so as to force them to fit the size of an iron bed. In general, when something is Procrustean, different lengths or sizes or properties are fitted to an arbitrary standard.
So, you gave a proper description of what the USA now trying to do all over the world. But you omitted what finally happened to Procrustes. The Americans should know the final for their best, and never forget two sayings: "The way to the Hell is paved by the stones of good intentions" and - "Don't trouble troubles, until troubles trouble you."

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

05-30-2015, 09:54 PM

I don't agree with the concept of American Exceptionalism if it it taken to mean that America is not subject to the same tidal forces of history every other nation is. The pox of liberal progressivism is eating its way through and debilitating America the same way it has been doing every other western country over the past century.

That is a good point. One that I agree with absolutely.
No nation no matter how great, how exceptional it ever was , stayed in that status for a long time.
Perhaps we are now heading out of it for good. My point is we did great things, sacrificed much and the entire world reaped the fruits of that sacrifice.
Still reaps the fruits but yes thats fading fast, even faster due to the obama agenda. Deliberately so IMHO..-Tyr