Sodomite calls for Churchs to be Forced to Stop Calling Sodomy Sin

[Jeff]

Yes it is getting to just that, folks are going to order the church's to do what they want. In this article talks about the Left can't do their thing with a strong church, and the Gays don't wish for equal rights they push for power, so very true.



I have said for months that this is where we would end up. That the ultimate goal of the sodomite movement is the silence and destruction of the Church. It has begun as a subtle movement for acceptance by the culture to a political battering ram for control. The left and their socialist allies cannot have an America and a strong Church.

http://freedomforce.com/3913/sodomite-calls-for-churchs-to-be-forced-to-stop-calling-sodomy-sin/

[fj1200]

I'm sure all the straight sodomites would prefer it as well.

:whistling2:

[darin]

Codifying sin is among the most sinful things i can imagine. Having boolean sins removes from the equasion the sinlge most important aspect of everything; our 'hearts'. Context matters.

[aboutime]

"Let he/she...who is without sin, cast the first stone!"

Those who practice Sodomy, and wish it to be legalized...DO NOT BELIEVE IN, nor DO THEY OBEY the 10 Commandments.
Which is why so many people, from all walks of life in our lousy society...feel free to break the laws of man.

If they can CONVINCE themselves they do NOT believe in a God, or 10 Commandments. They have no guilt about breaking commandments they DO NOT BELIEVE IN.

So.Homosexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Transgender Liars who break the laws...feel they need to be granted the freedoms to DISOBEY, or BREAK any of those TERRIBLE laws, or rules MOST OF THE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS ON EARTH Obey, and Follow.
It's really simple actually.
Now...let's hear it from anyone who wishes to call me all the names I've heard many times before.
Let me forewarn you...I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

[Noir]

"Let he/she...who is without sin, cast the first stone!"

Those who practice Sodomy, and wish it to be legalized...DO NOT BELIEVE IN, nor DO THEY OBEY the 10 Commandments.
Which is why so many people, from all walks of life in our lousy society...feel free to break the laws of man.

If they can CONVINCE themselves they do NOT believe in a God, or 10 Commandments. They have no guilt about breaking commandments they DO NOT BELIEVE IN.

So.Homosexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Transgender Liars who break the laws...feel they need to be granted the freedoms to DISOBEY, or BREAK any of those TERRIBLE laws, or rules MOST OF THE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS ON EARTH Obey, and Follow.
It's really simple actually.
Now...let's hear it from anyone who wishes to call me all the names I've heard many times before.
Let me forewarn you...I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

Do you consider oral sex between a heterosexual couple is sodomy?

[revelarts]

Yes it is getting to just that, folks are going to order the church's to do what they want. In this article talks about the Left can't do their thing with a strong church, and the Gays don't wish for equal rights they push for power, so very true.
http://freedomforce.com/3913/sodomite-calls-for-churchs-to-be-forced-to-stop-calling-sodomy-sin/


Didn't Balu Mention the "Overtone Window" in another thread?
Outlawing some christian speech is already happening on TV in Canada and Europe. it's labeled as "Hate Speech".
That's the side door version of "making" Christians change our VIEW of sin.
How crazy is that?

It's weird that they CAN NOT hear themselves.

They cry BLOODY MURDER if we dare claim that Jesus can covert them.
But they want us to make us CHANGE our views of sins so their feelings aren't hurt? And force us to bake them a cake?!

Plus still claim they are 100% for religious freedom I suspect.
the more honest might say "quoting that part of the bible is TOO MUCH religious freedom."
I suspect they won't be trying to make Muslims to change their views on homosexuality any time soon.

we live in post christian culture and all Christians should pray for revival, and ask God to help Christians to be the salt and light we're suppose to be. cause it's getting mighty dark folks. Our playing around other sexual sins like strait porn, soft porn, divorce, adultery, fornication opened the door for this. Holiness has got to start at the house of God.
God granted this country great freedoms for Christians to practice as we please and live as free people. But we're losing it on every front.




Codifying sin is among the most sinful things i can imagine. Having boolean sins removes from the equasion the sinlge most important aspect of everything; our 'hearts'. Context matters.
DMP you make no sense here.

your making the same mistake as those that say "the only intolerable thing is intolerance".
or "the only thing that's ever wrong is saying someones wrong."

it doesn't work

[darin]

The problem is this: "sins" are called that because they harm us or others. god says dont do stuff because its for our own good. Homosexuality is emtionally and physically and probably spiritually destructive. Not as much physically thanks to medical advances. But its like if the doctor was telling the patient to stop doing meth - in this example homosexuality is meth. Truly compassionate society would cure or mitigate the homosexualty at first notice.

[revelarts]

The problem is this: "sins" are called that because they harm us or others. god says dont do stuff because its for our own good. Homosexuality is emtionally and physically and probably spiritually destructive. Not as much physically thanks to medical advances. But its like if the doctor was telling the patient to stop doing meth - in this example homosexuality is meth. Truly compassionate society would cure or mitigate the homosexualty at first notice.

I'd agree with most of that.
Sins is self destructive, and destructive of others.

Sometimes self destructive behavior is dealt with more harshly, though not without compassion.
Someone who lies constantly isn't always treated gently. And while you could point out that the habit is mainly self destructive your not wrong to say that it is just plain WRONG. and that they should stop the act JUST because it's wrong.

You can come at it both ways, both are RIGHT and appropriate.
Each should include compassion and humanity. And does by default in one sense. Because it's RIGHT and inline with what God outlined creation to be, and with his character.

[darin]

God already covered the spiritual side of sin; ALL is paid for. Today sin are things that hurt us or others. Gods not so insecure requires adherence to arbitrary rules.

[revelarts]

God already covered the spiritual side of sin; ALL is paid for. Today sin are things that hurt us or others. Gods not so insecure requires adherence to arbitrary rules.

the rules aren't arbitrary, they are part of creation just as gravity and love is.
sin is against the nature of God forgiven or not.

[Balu]

"Let he/she...who is without sin, cast the first stone!"

Those who practice Sodomy, and wish it to be legalized...DO NOT BELIEVE IN, nor DO THEY OBEY the 10 Commandments.
Which is why so many people, from all walks of life in our lousy society...feel free to break the laws of man.

If they can CONVINCE themselves they do NOT believe in a God, or 10 Commandments. They have no guilt about breaking commandments they DO NOT BELIEVE IN.

So.Homosexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Transgender Liars who break the laws...feel they need to be granted the freedoms to DISOBEY, or BREAK any of those TERRIBLE laws, or rules MOST OF THE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS ON EARTH Obey, and Follow.
It's really simple actually.
Now...let's hear it from anyone who wishes to call me all the names I've heard many times before.
Let me forewarn you...I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
108% agree!

[aboutime]

Do you consider oral sex between a heterosexual couple is sodomy?


Not that it will matter to you, but YES. I do. No matter how anyone wants to define the word. It applies equally across the spectrum.
I guess that is the price I pay for being a Christian, and for following what I was taught by my parents whom, I suspect...were also SINNERS like me.
Therefore. I make no apologies. Nor do I feel any need to do so. No matter how you will try to twist, or ask more questions about how I feel, or what I consider. Call me whatever you want. I apply, and use the 10 commandments as my guide in life. Always have, and always will.
Others who do not have any faith, or beliefs like me. Are free to do, and be whatever they want so long as it doesn't hurt, injure or endanger me or my family.
None of my business in the bigger scheme of life.

[darin]

the rules aren't arbitrary, they are part of creation just as gravity and love is.
sin is against the nature of God forgiven or not.


There are no rules anymore. Thats the beauty of grace. :) God never placed rules for his sake but ours. After christ's attonement all souls are reconciled. Its beautiful.

[revelarts]

There are no rules anymore. Thats the beauty of grace. :) God never placed rules for his sake but ours. After christ's attonement all souls are reconciled. Its beautiful.

love God and love your neighbor are the whole of the law.
the rest is fleshing out how you do that in detail.
"shall we sin because of grace? God forbid?"

[avatar4321]

I've ever really understood the appeal of sodomy. Especially for the one being sodomized.

The whole point of the atonement is.to reconcile us with God. We access the atonement when we live the first principles. We exercise faith in christ. And we repent of our sins.

We repent because of our faith in Christ. We have to believe in Him first. Believe in Him enough to put our trust in Him and do as He says. We have to trust that He can heal us. We have to believe enough to act. We have to believe He truly can change our nature.

Repentance requires confession. To God or those we have hurt. In requires restitution if we can give it. If we tell a lie, we need to tell the truth. If we steal, we need to repay etc. In requires effort to turn away from our sins and put them out of our life.

If we resist sin, it becomes easier to do so in the future. Some think forsaking our sins is impossible. But the grace of God can make up the difference. The effort shows our sincerity to God. I know from experience that His grace can help us overcome even our most addicting sins.

Repentance isn't a one time thing. It's something we do daily. Line upon line and precept upon precept. Like climbing a ladder one rung at a time. As we let ourselves be lead by the Holy Spirit and sanctified we become partakers of the Divine and have our calling an election made sure. Not sure of what that entails in its entirety. But I know when we see Him we will be like Him.

We cannot let sin control our lives. Especially when Christ is willing to help us do all things.

Remember what the apostles taught. Exercise faith in jesus Christ. Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and you will receive the Holy Ghost

[Jeff]

The problem is this: "sins" are called that because they harm us or others. god says dont do stuff because its for our own good. Homosexuality is emtionally and physically and probably spiritually destructive. Not as much physically thanks to medical advances. But its like if the doctor was telling the patient to stop doing meth - in this example homosexuality is meth. Truly compassionate society would cure or mitigate the homosexualty at first notice.

God hates the sin not the sinner, I agree we should reach out to those that are committing the sin not shun them, but at the same time we shouldn't be changing laws to condone what they do.

[darin]

love God and love your neighbor are the whole of the law.
the rest is fleshing out how you do that in detail.
"shall we sin because of grace? God forbid?"


Except there's no condemnation from God because of christ. Anyone who has ever lived or ever will live has already died and reconciled fro God's perspective. As CS Lewis points out through 'Macdonald':

“It was not once long ago that He did it. Time does not work that way when once ye have left the Earth. All the moments that have been or shall be were, or are, present in the moment of His descending. There is no spirit in prison to Whom He did not preach.”

People NEED the thought of 'OMG Don't SIN!!!111' because maybe it gives them direction or purpose but its pointless. Even worse to create checklists on what 'actions' are sinful. Probably sinful to assume actions are sinful anyway. But again, doesn't matter anymore.

[revelarts]

Except there's no condemnation from God because of christ. Anyone who has ever lived or ever will live has already died and reconciled fro God's perspective. As CS Lewis points out through 'Macdonald':

“It was not once long ago that He did it. Time does not work that way when once ye have left the Earth. All the moments that have been or shall be were, or are, present in the moment of His descending. There is no spirit in prison to Whom He did not preach.”

People NEED the thought of 'OMG Don't SIN!!!111' because maybe it gives them direction or purpose but its pointless. Even worse to create checklists on what 'actions' are sinful. Probably sinful to assume actions are sinful anyway. But again, doesn't matter anymore.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." John 3:17-18
Peter said "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Act 10:43

the idea that - everyone in the world is saved no mater what- is just incorrect. everyone who believes. is clearly the standard dmp.
we've talk about this before, and we disagree here, but i just wanted to make the points.
Concerning whether or not we should consider sin. There are a plenty of verses that let us know that we should be aware of an avoid it.

Peter said
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul."
Paul said in Galatians 6
"Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted."
Hebrews 12
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith."


So yeah, we should be aware of sin and avoid it and help others do the same and focus on Jesus by the Spirit.

concerning a list, the Apostle formally wrote this
"As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” Acts 21
Concerning the church dealing with sin
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?" 1 Corinthians 5

DMP Frankly I'm not sure how you can read 1 Corinthians and hold to your position.

[fj1200]

Of course the underlying premise is what is the sin. It must be shown to be sin for the point to be valid.

[darin]

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." John 3:17-18
Peter said "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Act 10:43

the idea that - everyone in the world is saved no mater what- is just incorrect. everyone who believes. is clearly the standard dmp.
we've talk about this before, and we disagree here, but i just wanted to make the points.

Except Christ has already 'taught/preached' to the lost, to the prisoners and freed them from hades - see 1 Peter 3:18-22.
That's a verse those speaking didn't know much about or think about, perhaps.



Concerning whether or not we should consider sin. There are a plenty of verses that let us know that we should be aware of an avoid it.

Peter said
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul."
Paul said in Galatians 6
"Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted."
Hebrews 12
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith."



Except nothing there relates to a verb - only the conditions of one's heart. To avoid damaging ourselves with a motivations that lead us to destructive activities - but the activies aren't the problem. The problem is the decision and what motivates it.



So yeah, we should be aware of sin and avoid it and help others do the same and focus on Jesus by the Spirit.


Christ cared less about sin-awareness and more about touching lives. The sin part was always secondary to his touch.




concerning a list, the Apostle formally wrote this
"As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” Acts 21



The Apostle was contradicting other teaching. If the Aspostle believed in a list of dos and donts that guy was dead wrong or his missed the point. Or we're mis-interpreting what he said. Further - not every instruction to every group counts as instruction for ALL believers for all time.
And what was sexually immoral to the society of the day? Their kings had thousands of concubines/wives, etc. But namely the scripture you quote is NOT instructions to avoid sinning - it's saying "If you're a gentile it's best to NOT offend jewish believers. Don't give them Pork, for instance, or other things you KNOW they don't approve of. Maintain their standards of sexuality. The point of what you quoted was showing believers how to be polite to one-another - NOT a commandment line. You get the 'out of context' award!

Romans 14 1-5



14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.


Emphasis Mine.

Then I go back to - what did CHRIST say our focus should be? Not 'avoiding OMGWTF!!OHNOSIN!!!!' it was "Love God; Love your neighbor as yourself'. (note the period).

Pointing out sin in otherwise honest-seeking people is counter-christ. Pointing out sin in those claiming a measure of righteousness? Jesus loved that shit.




Concerning the church dealing with sin
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?" 1 Corinthians 5

DMP Frankly I'm not sure how you can read 1 Corinthians and hold to your position.

It's not my position. Read things within context and understand to whom it was written. Pull back from indoctrination and focus upon Loving others. When folks do something that hurts them, don't "make them ask forgiveness" - HELP HEAL THEM. And you forgot an important part - "what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church - even sexually immoral, or cheaters, or liars or the like".

(shrug).

Wear your convictions not with arrogance and entitlement. But humility.

[revelarts]

Except Christ has already 'taught/preached' to the lost, to the prisoners and freed them from hades - see 1 Peter 3:18-22.
That's a verse those speaking didn't know much about or think about, perhaps.

Except nothing there relates to a verb - only the conditions of one's heart. To avoid damaging ourselves with a motivations that lead us to destructive activities - but the activies aren't the problem. The problem is the decision and what motivates it.

Christ cared less about sin-awareness and more about touching lives. The sin part was always secondary to his touch.

The Apostle was contradicting other teaching. If the Aspostle believed in a list of dos and donts that guy was dead wrong or his missed the point. Or we're mis-interpreting what he said. Further - not every instruction to every group counts as instruction for ALL believers for all time.
And what was sexually immoral to the society of the day? Their kings had thousands of concubines/wives, etc. But namely the scripture you quote is NOT instructions to avoid sinning - it's saying "If you're a gentile it's best to NOT offend jewish believers. Don't give them Pork, for instance, or other things you KNOW they don't approve of. Maintain their standards of sexuality. The point of what you quoted was showing believers how to be polite to one-another - NOT a commandment line. You get the 'out of context' award!

Romans 14 1-5
Emphasis Mine.

Then I go back to - what did CHRIST say our focus should be? Not 'avoiding OMGWTF!!OHNOSIN!!!!' it was "Love God; Love your neighbor as yourself'. (note the period).

Pointing out sin in otherwise honest-seeking people is counter-christ. Pointing out sin in those claiming a measure of righteousness? Jesus loved that shit.

It's not my position. Read things within context and understand to whom it was written. Pull back from indoctrination and focus upon Loving others. When folks do something that hurts them, don't "make them ask forgiveness" - HELP HEAL THEM. And you forgot an important part - "what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church - even sexually immoral, or cheaters, or liars or the like".
(shrug).
Wear your convictions not with arrogance and entitlement. But humility.

DMP, I'm not trying to be arrogant if i come across that way --can you forgive me--?
arrogance is a sin then i suppose? no, of course not.

look we disagree. and your post IMO, --i said IMO--- read like someone who can make the text of the scripture say WHATEVER he wants to fit his preconceived Ideas.

no mater what the text says
it's out of context, or a bad translation or it doesn't apply today, or it only applies to others , or it doesn't relate to the a verb (even though it does) and FINALLY the Apostles didn't know any better and the Apostles were dead wrong and missed the point.

So OK you're right and the Apostles are wrong but I'm being arrogant.
DMP, we disagree, peace to you.

[DLT]

Yes it is getting to just that, folks are going to order the church's to do what they want. In this article talks about the Left can't do their thing with a strong church, and the Gays don't wish for equal rights they push for power, so very true.




http://freedomforce.com/3913/sodomite-calls-for-churchs-to-be-forced-to-stop-calling-sodomy-sin/

It has become clear and obvious that the left's intention and goal, via their "hate speech" legislation, is to destroy the Christian church and to silence and force approval and consent of US Christians re: homosexual lifestyles. What's next? They demand a 'rewrite' of the Bible? Burn any and all books that use the word "sodomy" or "sodomite"?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It has become clear and obvious that the left's intention and goal, via their "hate speech" legislation, is to destroy the Christian church and to silence and force approval and consent of US Christians re: homosexual lifestyles. What's next? They demand a 'rewrite' of the Bible? Burn any and all books that use the word "sodomy" or "sodomite"?
Very likely that is next with even worse to follow. Maybe someday, the demand that kids are taught how to engage in sodomy in public schools!
Never, I repeat- never doubt how low these people will go.
Their is no depth that they will not sink to.. Its the very nature of the evil in their hearts and minds. Tyr

[red state]

:clap:
Very likely that is next with even worse to follow. Maybe someday, the demand that kids are taught how to engage in sodomy in public schools!
Never, I repeat- never doubt how low these people will go.
Their is no depth that they will not sink to.. Its the very nature of the evil in their hearts and minds. Tyr:clap:

[Noir]

I've ever really understood the appeal of sodomy.

You should maybe ask your friends, heterosexual oral sex is v popular these days.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You should maybe ask your friends, heterosexual oral sex is v popular these days.

And why shouldnt it be, right?
Slick Willie said it wasn't sex and gays cry its the bomb!
Kids are being taughtthat being gay is ok thusly gay sex is too..
Slippery slope, the fruition now can be seen quite clearly....-Tyr

[aboutime]

You should maybe ask your friends, heterosexual oral sex is v popular these days.


Noir. So, because you endorse sodomy, and are convinced it's fine. You want everyone else to think the same way?

My late father used to say "Because I stick my head in the fireplace, doesn't mean you should too!"

IMO. Those who happily, and intentionally, knowingly violate the Common laws of man...because they do not believe there is such a thing as Common Laws...Christians call the Ten Commandments. Does not make those who violate those UNDESIRABLE laws any more morally Intelligent, or Human.