What is bad about Conservatism?

[MtnBiker]

Notice I said Conservatism not Repbublicans, there are not all together the same.


So? What is a bad about Conservatism?

[manu1959]

nuffin

[nevadamedic]

Notice I said Conservatism not Repbublicans, there are not all together the same.


So? What is a bad about Conservatism?

Not a damn thing, but im sure we will get an earful from Psychoblues........ :laugh2:

[diuretic]

What do you admire about Conservatism? What are its good points? And how can you differentiate Conservatism (in the mould of Burke for example) from the radical reactionaries who call themselves "Conservatives"?

I ask because you would probably consider me a "liberal" (in the American sense). And here "liberals" are portrayed as having certain beliefs and attitudes - much of it erroneous. I consider myself very moderate but left of centre.

So, what's good about "Conservatism"?

One thing I do appreciate about the philosophy of conservatism is the moderate resistance to change. Now coming from a "liberal" that might be seen as strange but I really believe any society needs to be wary of plunging into what might be seen as progressive change for its own sake. Conservatives generally resist huge change and that provides a counter to those of us who might otherwise rush ahead blindly. As the old aphorism has it, act in haste, repent at leisure. I always think if I can persuade a conservative that such and such an idea is good, then it really must be.

[Kathianne]

What do you admire about Conservatism? What are its good points? And how can you differentiate Conservatism (in the mould of Burke for example) from the radical reactionaries who call themselves "Conservatives"?

I ask because you would probably consider me a "liberal" (in the American sense). And here "liberals" are portrayed as having certain beliefs and attitudes - much of it erroneous. I consider myself very moderate but left of centre.

So, what's good about "Conservatism"?

One thing I do appreciate about the philosophy of conservatism is the moderate resistance to change. Now coming from a "liberal" that might be seen as strange but I really believe any society needs to be wary of plunging into what might be seen as progressive change for its own sake. Conservatives generally resist huge change and that provides a counter to those of us who might otherwise rush ahead blindly. As the old aphorism has it, act in haste, repent at leisure. I always think if I can persuade a conservative that such and such an idea is good, then it really must be.

Maybe you have a few ideas wrong about American conservatism? For the most part as I understand it's based on the idea that government should stay out of the people's lives and pockets to the greatest degree possible. 'The best government is that which governs least.' Secondly, what government does actually effect our lives, should be as local as possible. Thus the local police, not the FBI or CIA. Standards are community set and applied.

As for the federal government that amendment that says everything not assigned is reserved to the people or the states. While I understand the elastic clause and the commerce clause I know they have been carried too far.

[GW in Ohio]

Notice I said Conservatism not Repbublicans, there are not all together the same.


So? What is a bad about Conservatism?

Conservatism is okay as a political philosophy. I have a couple of problems with some of its adherents, though:

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

[darin]

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......


Conservatives are the opposite - BECAUSE we care about the poor we want to empower them to change their situation; unlike Liberals who simply want to feed into the cycle of Poverty.

[Kathianne]

Conservatism is okay as a political philosophy. I have a couple of problems with some of its adherents, though:

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

This board is mostly conservative. I'd like to see where you find blatant hard-heartedness amongst those that are not just one liner posters.

I know that with the 'poor' there are many instances where the point has been made that to break the cycle of poverty any laws implemented to help them should include provisos that are pro-family-meaning, mom, dad, and kids. I for one was all for the liberalism of the civil rights laws, that included many increases in aid to the poor. What it resulted in was the breakdown of the black family, much like illegal immigration is resulting in the same regarding Hispanic families today.

Regarding illegal aliens, with very few exceptions, I doubt you'll find anti-immigration feelings, it's "illegals" that are the problem. I've posted a plethora of posts saying that if I were them, with the way our laws are not enforced, I'd do the same. I'm all for the government first enforcing our laws, then increasing the numbers of legal immigrants allowed, based on US needs.

[Monkeybone]

what is it? give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

and towards illegals immigrants...the only i problem that i have is the illegal part. yes, our ancestors immigrated here for a better life and no, some of them might not have registered. but the main diff is yes, they kept some of the heritage and pride of who they were and where they cam from, nothing wrong with that. but they also learned the language and customs. they didn't just move and bring their problems with them while at the same time not paying taxes and the likes

[Nukeman]

Conservatism is okay as a political philosophy. I have a couple of problems with some of its adherents, though:

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

I bolded this part because no matter how you want to spin it the word for the day is ILLEGAL

You can speculate all you want as to whether or not my ancestor or anothers would have come here illegaly. The key here is that they DID NOT. So get off your moral high horse and realize my ancestors came here legaly and a presume so did yours.

Now back on topic, the coservative beliefs are more self reliance, and over all less obtrusive government. Is that really such a bad thing????

I would also point out to you, as I have in other threads, time and time again conservative out give the liberals in this country to charities..

Yes a few libs will give huge amounts but over all the "elite" libs tend to be very arrogant to the point that everyone else is just too imature to take care of themselves so we "the government" must do it..:poke:

[diuretic]

Maybe you have a few ideas wrong about American conservatism? For the most part as I understand it's based on the idea that government should stay out of the people's lives and pockets to the greatest degree possible. 'The best government is that which governs least.' Secondly, what government does actually effect our lives, should be as local as possible. Thus the local police, not the FBI or CIA. Standards are community set and applied.

As for the federal government that amendment that says everything not assigned is reserved to the people or the states. While I understand the elastic clause and the commerce clause I know they have been carried too far.

It's a good reminder for me. I don't want to get into a situation where I tell you how your country should be run but with 300 million people in the most technologically advanced country in the world, you're not going to have "small government." I'd be aiming for "good government", not worrying about its size.

I appreciate the desire for local control. Again in a country the size of the US (area and population), there has to be effective localised government for many functions that should be carried out at the local level.

[Kathianne]

It's a good reminder for me. I don't want to get into a situation where I tell you how your country should be run but with 300 million people in the most technologically advanced country in the world, you're not going to have "small government." I'd be aiming for "good government", not worrying about its size.

I appreciate the desire for local control. Again in a country the size of the US (area and population), there has to be effective localised government for many functions that should be carried out at the local level.

Actually small government is good government. Our founders anticipated the size of the country, which is why they rejected the idea of direct democracy and further built in the checks and balances. It's the whole reason for the federation of powers.

Size does matter on the the issues that most directly effect the people. As for technology, the feds do have that, rightly by commerce clause-it's international, not even close to a state issue.

[Trigg]

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

1. Conservatives do admire people who "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" Personnally I would rather help those who WANT to help themselves. Instead of setting up yet more social programs so people can sit on their asses generation after generation. There is nothing wrong with helping people but some people are just lazy and need the push to get things going on their own. This is where liberals have it wrong.

2. There is NOTHING racist about being against ILLEGAL immigration. The gov. have rounded up people from eastern european countries as well and good for them. If someone wants to come here legally than I welcome them with open armes. The problem is illegals come here and send their money HOME instead of paying taxes for the services they are using here like healthcare and schooling.

[Trigg]

For me personnally being conservative means.

1. I'd rather help someone with their problem rather than throwing money at it.

2. I'd like to see the US stay out of the worlds problems. Let them work things out for a change.

3. I want to close the border. We don't need more undereducated people. We have a problem with our public schools as it is. Lets impliment an immigration policy that makes sense for a change.

4. Our gov. is a mess, the left hand rarely knows what the right hand is doing and that needs to change.

[MtnBiker]

Conservatism is okay as a political philosophy. I have a couple of problems with some of its adherents, though:

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

Thanks for the reply GW in Ohio.

Interesting that you believe conservatism is okay as a political philosophy.

I might be able to understand your perspective on conservative views of poor people. The attitude could be perceived as caviler or maybe even uncaring, however I would dispute that percepection. Not every person is guranteed any amount of wealth, that is something that is earned. Safety nets should be in place, but be just that, a temporary means until a person is able to stand on their own feet, safety nets should not be a continual means.

Of course their are some in society that do depend on others for their exsistence including handicapped people and we are a compationate society and such people should be taken care of.

It is important to recognize that there are people who are in tough financial situation mostly out of bad choices in life. Is it society's responsiblity to insure finacial stablility for people who have made poor choices and do nothing for people who have made better choices? As far as helping people in such circumstances, charitably organizations are much more effecient then government bureaucracies and should be supported. It is through such organizations that help should be administered with less dependence on government.

[avatar4321]

Conservatism is okay as a political philosophy. I have a couple of problems with some of its adherents, though:

1. Conservatives tend to be somewhat arrogant and mean-spirited toward the poor. The attitude on their part is that the poor are poor because of some defect in their character. They tend to take a macho stance: "I can make it on my own efforts; why can't they?" Sometimes people just get beaten down by bad breaks and they find it hard to rise again. There, but for the grace of God, go you and I, my friends......

2. Conservatives have a very selfish, and somewhat racist attitude toward illegal immigrants. They forget that their own forbears came here for exactly the same reasons these people did....to make a better life for themselves and their families. If their ancestors had been able to get here illegally via a porous southern border, we would have had German, and Italian, and Irish wetbacks.

I cant help but notice that both these "cricitisms" of conservatism are nothing more that inaccurate charicatures by which you potray conservatives rather than anything that actually applies to conservatism.

Everyone finds it hard to rise. The ones that do rise are just the ones that dont make excuses for themselves and keep trying. Telling people they cant make it and that they need your help isnt going to help them keep trying.

There is nothing racist about being against illegal immigration. And its about time you actually admitted that rather than try to malign anyone you disagree with by calling them racist.

[gabosaurus]

I see nothing at all wrong with being conservative. My husband and his family are all conservative. I am conservative in many ways.
To me, being conservative means embracing past standards of honesty, integrity and thrift. It has nothing to do with politics. I don't take a lot of chances. I believe in God, the sanctity of marriage and saving for my future.
I also believe in honesty. Which, unfortunately, many modern politicos (both parties) do not. During WWII, Americans were urged to buy war bonds and embrace savings. After the war, Americans were asked to help aid the recovery with savings such as social security and retirement accounts. Unfortunately, we have seen politicians blindly stealing from such and forcing the common American to pay the price.

The "conservative" and "liberal" tags are used way too frivolously and blindly. You see idiots wrapping themselves in the flag and declaring themselves to be "American Conservatives." As if that makes them better than anyone else. At the same time, they embrace bitterness and hate toward their neighbors and anyone different than themselves.

[MtnBiker]

To me, being conservative means embracing past standards of honesty, integrity and thrift. It has nothing to do with politics.

Good points. Conservatism can be seperate from politics, but politics will have elements of both conservatism and liberalism.

[LOki]

what is it? give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

"Give a man fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night; set a man on fire, and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life."

Fixed.

[Little-Acorn]

Good points. Conservatism can be seperate from politics
That's like saying Catholicism can be separate from religion. My reply: ....huh??

Sure, conservatism can have many meanings, such as wanting to keep the same number of goldfish in a bowl. But I believe that the question was asked by the OP, in regards to political conservatism in particular. Hence my above reaction.

Conservatism is the philosophy that a society will do best by having small central government, whose power and authority is limited to matters private people and groups cannot handle.

That's CANNOT handle, not just "don't do very well handling". Such things do exist, of course - see the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 for a handy list to start with. And I wouldn't mind adding a few things to that list... but not many.

Central government should handle national defense, coining money, establishing weights and measures, foreign relations, jurisprudence over interstate disputes, pursuit and prosecution of criminal behavior that crosses state or international bouondaries, border protection, and a few other things. I might add environmental protection, but strictly limited (more limited than it is today). More localized governments might handle in-state criminal prosecution, in-state jurisprudence, etc. There may be a few more.

Some things govt at any level should not have anything to do with IMHO: Education, insurance, unemployment, religion, public speech, etc., except in clear cases of violations of people's basic rights (perjury or slander, racial or religious persecution, etc. There are others.

The good news is, conservatism offers each person the opportunity to do as well for himself and his family and friends, as he can, with little or no obstruction.

The bad news is, a conservative government won't catch him when he trips and falls. But he can get together with his friends, or with other people's companies, to do that (insurance companies etc.). Plus, conservatism promotes private, voluntary charity HEAVILY, with the knowledge that if you don't help your fellow man, no one will. And that's true when you're the one needing help, too. So plan accordingly. You're on your own... along with everyone you see around you.

Is conservatism perfect? No, no more than the people practicing conservatism are perfect. But it encourages people to do as well as they can, because that's the only way they'll prosper and get good things (including a good life for them, family, friends etc.

What's bad about conservatism? It's scary. You're responsible for what you do. And if you screw up, or simply have bad luck, you could get burned. It behooves you to prepare for such things. But conservatism doesn't provide a "safety net". It gives you - and those around you - the opportunity to provide that. And you'd be well advised to do it.

What's good about conservatism? The rewards are plentiful, as plentiful as your own effort, and they aremostly under your control. To a large extent, YOU determine how much you will get from life, by the decisions you make and the effort you put in. And no one will take them from you. These facts are not nearly as true for any other philosophy, as they are for conservatism.

[diuretic]

Actually small government is good government. Our founders anticipated the size of the country, which is why they rejected the idea of direct democracy and further built in the checks and balances. It's the whole reason for the federation of powers.

Size does matter on the the issues that most directly effect the people. As for technology, the feds do have that, rightly by commerce clause-it's international, not even close to a state issue.

Some interesting points. On direct democracy - unless you're in a very small society it's simply not possible. It's fine when suffrage only extends to a small elite (eg ancient Athens) but for a country of any size direct democracy - direct representation - isn't feasible. The founding fathers would have realised that, with their excellent classical education.

Small government is good government. Fine as a phrase but what does it really mean? Trust me, your government - regardless of which party is in power in the various branches - is going to be relatively big. If you want really, really small government you have to turn to anarchism.

In a country the size of the US (again, size in terms of land mass and population), decentralised government makes a great deal of sense.

[Psychoblues]

What is conservatism?


Not a damn thing, but im sure we will get an earful from Psychoblues........ :laugh2:

In 57 years I have never seen anything conservative from those that claim to embrace "conservatism".

Is that earful enough for you, nm?

[Pale Rider]

What is conservatism?



In 57 years I have never seen anything conservative from those that claim to embrace "conservatism".

Is that earful enough for you, nm?

You blind?

[Kathianne]

Some interesting points. On direct democracy - unless you're in a very small society it's simply not possible. It's fine when suffrage only extends to a small elite (eg ancient Athens) but for a country of any size direct democracy - direct representation - isn't feasible. The founding fathers would have realised that, with their excellent classical education.

Small government is good government. Fine as a phrase but what does it really mean? Trust me, your government - regardless of which party is in power in the various branches - is going to be relatively big. If you want really, really small government you have to turn to anarchism.

In a country the size of the US (again, size in terms of land mass and population), decentralised government makes a great deal of sense. Which is why it was federated, the states are decentralized. Whatever the feds do, must be big, agreed. Which is why many conservatives want some areas of 'what they do' shrunk and passed back to the states.

[MtnBiker]

That's like saying Catholicism can be separate from religion. My reply: ....huh??


Well, I was thinking in a personal since. I have known alot of people who I would call conservative, some very conservative, but were not at all political or politically involved. They didn't watch the news, know who their elected officals were or vote, but none the less still conservative.

[Gaffer]

Conservatism is simply applying common sense and logic to a problem.