How to defend yourself.

[Noir]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

[Jeff]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

Honestly I have had many dealings with the police and have never felt my life was in danger, see when the cops tells you to freeze and /or put your hands on your head do so, when they tell you to go to your knee's and cross your legs do so, make a long story short do what they tell you and your life isn't in danger, Out of all the recent protest ( riots ) that have happened 99% where do to folks resisting, yes I am sure there are some bad apples in the police force ( as there is in anything ) but for the most part don't resist and you stay alive.

So my answer to your question Noir is if you find yourself in fear for your life with the police, do as they say.

[Noir]

So my answer to your question Noir is if you find yourself in fear for your life with the police, do as they say.

So if you felt a police officer was about to kill you, you'd offer no resistance. Fair dues.

[indago]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

Sometimes the only indication of the police trying to kill a citizen is when they approach with their guns drawn. All they have to do is pull the trigger. There is no chance of a self defense. If you make a move, you're dead.

[jimnyc]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

Good luck with that one, the police are authorized to carry weapons and use them when necessary. They are REQUIRED to bring them out and use them responsibly when necessary, and sometimes with force. Same goes for the baton and tazer.

You are correct, it does slice both ways. Citizens, in states where carrying is legal, can likely get off any charges if the jury feels they acted in self defense.

Generally speaking, you better have a DAMN good reason to shoot a cop (or similar), and you better hope you have a witness or similar, as courts and juries tend to find cops more believable. And while we hear about some cases where people go nutso over a cop shooting - a cop shooting where a cop is actually guilty is rarer than you think, but it does happen. And yes, in such an instance, I wouldn't have an issue with someone defending themselves with force.

[LongTermGuy]

Honestly I have had many dealings with the police and have never felt my life was in danger, see when the cops tells you to freeze and /or put your hands on your head do so, when they tell you to go to your knee's and cross your legs do so, make a long story short do what they tell you and your life isn't in danger, Out of all the recent protest ( riots ) that have happened 99% where do to folks resisting, yes I am sure there are some bad apples in the police force ( as there is in anything ) but for the most part don't resist and you stay alive.

So my answer to your question Noir is if you find yourself in fear for your life with the police, do as they say.

*What you said above is common sense and logical....and very easy to understand and figure out.....

[jimnyc]

So if you felt a police officer was about to kill you, you'd offer no resistance. Fair dues.

If you broke no laws and are abiding with a cops orders - the odds of one of them trying to kill you is extremely minimal. But based on your scenario, should it happen - defend yourself. I just think the odds are slimmer than you think.

[Noir]

So far we have
2 Listen to the police an hope they don't kill you.
1 defend yourself, make sure you have witnesses.
1 you wont have time to react even if you wanted to.

[jimnyc]

So far we have
2 Listen to the police an hope they don't kill you.
1 defend yourself, make sure you have witnesses.
1 you wont have time to react even if you wanted to.

Dude, it's kinda obvious what you're trying to do. Should everyone reply with "Yeah, just shoot back at cops if you feel you're in danger"?

What would YOU do? Shoot a cop instantly if you feel in danger? Carry with your finger ready if you get pulled over, just in case? If he pulls his gun when he approaches your car, for his own safety as per regulations, should you then pull your gun and be ready too? Seriously, YOU answer...

[LongTermGuy]

So if you felt a police officer was about to kill you, you'd offer no resistance. Fair dues.


*Hey Noir...I Agree with what Jim said above...also...Thugs most always "Feel" LEO`s want to kill them and do stupid things...everyone has "Feelings"...but NOT everyone has common sense and intelligence to give validity to those Feelings...so common sense rules in any need actions...

[Jeff]

So if you felt a police officer was about to kill you, you'd offer no resistance. Fair dues.

As I said Noir I have had many dealings with the police and never once have I felt like OK they are going to kill me, but think about it, when they have radio's faster than any vehicle, and are all carrying guns, you bet your butt if I felt like my life was in danger I would absolutely do as I was told, anything else ( if my life was truly in danger ) would be suicide.

The scariest time I ever had was back when I was about 17, it was New Years eve and we had a quarter keg and where partying up by the HS football field, and it seemed like ever 15 minutes the cops would show up and we would grab the keg and run, well that would shake the keg up and honestly I was just getting tired of running, so I made the statement that the next cop that shows up I was going to lay out, and with in minutes their he was, and yes I laid him out, now of course they never come with just one, so it didn't take them long to have the cuffs on me and I was in the back seat heading for the cop shop, well as we where driving down route 35 on our way downtown they made a right on the clover leaf ( the intersection of 1 & 9 ) the cop shop was straight down 35, so I am wondering what the heck they are doing, on the right side of the ramp is a cemetery and at the point where you merge onto 1&9 there is a entrance to that crematory and yes we made the right into it, and yes at that point I thought ooo hell they are going to kill me ( and at that point I was handcuffed so nope there was nothing I could do but worry ) well the last I remember the cop called me a punk, :laugh: I woke up a while later laying against a head stone, covered in blood, but alive. See they beat the hell out of me and scared the sheot out of me all in one, but they taught me a valuable lesson and I didn't get this on my record, for that I thank them. Years ago things like this happened and it was no big deal, I certainly wasn't going home to tell my dad because he would of whooped me worst, but now a days that would of gotten those two cops at the very least suspended and made the punk ( who was me ) rich. I thank God I was raised when there was still morals in this country, see I did wrong but was taught a lesson that I never will forget, now a days that same scenario would of went way differently.

[Perianne]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

I think that is the point of a cop pulling his gun: you are about to die, unless.....

It would definitely make me behave. Not that I ever don't behave around cops. :)

[Noir]

Dude, it's kinda obvious what you're trying to do. Should everyone reply with "Yeah, just shoot back at cops if you feel you're in danger"?

Everyone should reply with how they think they should act.


What would YOU do? Shoot a cop instantly if you feel in danger? Carry with your finger ready if you get pulled over, just in case? If he pulls his gun when he approaches your car, for his own safety as per regulations, should you then pull your gun and be ready too? Seriously, YOU answer...

If I felt my life was about to end I'd most likely try to run, or be frozen to the spot. Either way if it's the policeman said intention I'd prob end up dead.

[Jeff]

Everyone should reply with how they think they should act.



If I felt my life was about to end I'd most likely try to run, or be frozen to the spot. Either way if it's the policeman said intention I'd prob end up dead.

Noir I don't believe any cop ( even the bad ones ) pull someone over with the thought in their mind ooo goodie I am going to kill this guy, you may have some pulling folks over they are thinking how they can't stand the black guy or the white guy or the guy with long hair ect... but I don't believe any pull you over thinking dam I finally get to kill someone this morning.

[fj1200]

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

Duh, that's the reason for the Second Amendment.

[revelarts]

As I said Noir I have had many dealings with the police and never once have I felt like OK they are going to kill me, but think about it, when they have radio's faster than any vehicle, and are all carrying guns, you bet your butt if I felt like my life was in danger I would absolutely do as I was told, anything else ( if my life was truly in danger ) would be suicide.

The scariest time I ever had was back when I was about 17, it was New Years eve and we had a quarter keg and where partying up by the HS football field, and it seemed like ever 15 minutes the cops would show up and we would grab the keg and run, well that would shake the keg up and honestly I was just getting tired of running, so I made the statement that the next cop that shows up I was going to lay out, and with in minutes their he was, and yes I laid him out, now of course they never come with just one, so it didn't take them long to have the cuffs on me and I was in the back seat heading for the cop shop, well as we where driving down route 35 on our way downtown they made a right on the clover leaf ( the intersection of 1 & 9 ) the cop shop was straight down 35, so I am wondering what the heck they are doing, on the right side of the ramp is a cemetery and at the point where you merge onto 1&9 there is a entrance to that crematory and yes we made the right into it, and yes at that point I thought ooo hell they are going to kill me ( and at that point I was handcuffed so nope there was nothing I could do but worry ) well the last I remember the cop called me a punk, :laugh: I woke up a while later laying against a head stone, covered in blood, but alive. See they beat the hell out of me and scared the sheot out of me all in one, but they taught me a valuable lesson and I didn't get this on my record, for that I thank them. Years ago things like this happened and it was no big deal, I certainly wasn't going home to tell my dad because he would of whooped me worst, but now a days that would of gotten those two cops at the very least suspended and made the punk ( who was me ) rich. I thank God I was raised when there was still morals in this country, see I did wrong but was taught a lesson that I never will forget, now a days that same scenario would of went way differently.

Jeff I have to say that's interesting. thanks for sharing.
I'd like to ask you a couple of questions though.

1st you say you "RAN" from the police.
Next you say you "laid out" a LEO. Laid out means you HIT an officer.

So if the police had shot you in back as you "ran" or if they had shot you dead on the spot before or after you tried to lay the LEO out. Do you think they would have been absolutely justified? And that they were doing proper policing? you shouldn't have run right? Or do you think what they really did was BETTER police work?

Next you say the LEOs drove you out to cemetery scared you and beat the crap out of you.
You say you think that was justified ...because it worked, kept your record clear and was "no big deal".

Do you say that it was LEGAL? Was it even LEGAL then?
Didn't you DESERVE to have police record for hitting a cop? Isn't that the law?
Should the cops have the right to beat people to teach them a lesson whenever they feel that will be effective?

Jeff last question
---i'm just asking to make a point---
should we all consider you a born Thug, Animal, Criminal, Idiot, etc etc because of what you did as 17 year old boy?
especially since you've had more than one incident with the police?

[revelarts]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?
As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

the same as what police SHOULD do.
The least amount of force possible to defend yourself.
based on your training/knowledge, your options, your state of mind. But life or death you do what you can.

But LEOs have every advantage. And since they do they should alway have the most restraint. they come to every official encounter with training and tools for violence literally IN HAND. Plus a gang of brothers ready to pile on.

[jimnyc]

Jeff I have to say that's interesting. thanks for sharing.
I'd like to ask you a couple of questions though.

1st you say you "RAN" from the police.
Next you say you "laid out" a LEO. Laid out means you HIT an officer.

So if the police had shot you in back as you "ran" or if they had shot you dead on the spot before or after you tried to lay the LEO out. Do you think they would have been absolutely justified? And that they were doing proper policing? you shouldn't have run right? Or do you think what they really did was BETTER police work?

Next you say the LEOs drove you out to cemetery scared you and beat the crap out of you.
You say you think that was justified ...because it worked, kept your record clear and was "no big deal".

Do you say that it was LEGAL? Was it even LEGAL then?
Didn't you DESERVE to have police record for hitting a cop? Isn't that the law?
Should the cops have the right to beat people to teach them a lesson whenever they feel that will be effective?

Jeff last question
---i'm just asking to make a point---
should we all consider you a born Thug, Animal, Criminal, Idiot, etc etc because of what you did as 17 year old boy?
especially since you've had more than one incident with the police?

Not answering for Jeff, but my perspective as his brother. He WAS a thug at times, and especially if he was underage drinking and looking to fight with the police. And those actions made him an animal, and he was treated as such. Luckily the thug has since grown up and became a productive member of society. :) He was an idiot, no doubt. Of COURSE he was a criminal, and for longer than just that night! (sorry bro).

But he didn't blame the police afterwards. He admitted and made amends to his life. Had I been reading about it today in the news, and posted here, I would say "what a fucking criminal thug. Only an animal sits back and plans to fight with the police.

[Jeff]

Jeff I have to say that's interesting. thanks for sharing.
I'd like to ask you a couple of questions though.

1st you say you "RAN" from the police.
Next you say you "laid out" a LEO. Laid out means you HIT an officer.

Yes I struck a officer

So if the police had shot you in back as you "ran" or if they had shot you dead on the spot before or after you tried to lay the LEO out. Do you think they would have been absolutely justified? And that they were doing proper policing? you shouldn't have run right? Or do you think what they really did was BETTER police work?

If they shot me because I ran no that isn't justified, but yes in today's day and age when I lifted my hand to strike a police officer I believe they had the right to use deadly force, I thank God they didn't

Next you say the LEOs drove you out to cemetery scared you and beat the crap out of you.
You say you think that was justified ...because it worked, kept your record clear and was "no big deal".

What I said was I am much happier they did this than if they took me and charged me, if I had been charged it would of effected my entire life, not to mention I would of gotten a worst ass whooping when my Dad was called to come get me.

Do you say that it was LEGAL? Was it even LEGAL then?
Didn't you DESERVE to have police record for hitting a cop? Isn't that the law?
Should the cops have the right to beat people to teach them a lesson whenever they feel that will be effective?

First was it legal NO, but did the cop do me a favor yes, and would most rational minds think the same way yes, and yes I broke the law so yes if I received the record that was all my own fault, again we didn't have the law suits back then so some things where handled differently. No the Cops shouldn't have the right to beat people, each case is different, I was a punk kid and the cops knew it, big difference between punk kid and thug, the cops actually gave me a break.

Jeff last question
---i'm just asking to make a point---
should we all consider you a born Thug, Animal, Criminal, Idiot, etc etc because of what you did as 17 year old boy?
especially since you've had more than one incident with the police?


According to the thread I seen you post in yesterday you do consider me a criminal , thug , idiot and no you had no idea of my past. Yes the one where you put down Bikers and Biker gangs, basically calling them lower than pond scum, so no need to pussy foot around the question. As for the one incident I would be lying if I told you I only committed one act that a punk would, nope I never shot at a cop or anything like that, but there where many drunk and dis orderly's in my past and I am sure many other stupid things, but as I have said, it is one thing to be a punk kid and a entirely another to be a thug, a thug does harm to innocent folks, such as strong armed robbery, a punk is just a kid that usually can't handle his liquor to well, but with that said even though I wasn't a thug if I was charged yes I would of deserved the record I got, striking a police officer is serious and I was extremely stupid to do so, and as I have said numerous times I thank God that back then the cops knew the neighborhood and who the punks where and who the thugs where. As for should I still be considered no good, as I showed you already do, but no I did my time and paid for my deeds, I believe once a man pays his debt to society he should have a second chance, I do believe that is how are laws are suppose to work, they just usually don't.

[revelarts]

According to the thread I seen you post in yesterday you do consider me a criminal , thug , idiot and no you had no idea of my past. Yes the one where you put down Bikers and Biker gangs, basically calling them lower than pond scum, so no need to pussy foot around the question. As for the one incident I would be lying if I told you I only committed one act that a punk would, nope I never shot at a cop or anything like that, but there where many drunk and dis orderly's in my past and I am sure many other stupid things, but as I have said, it is one thing to be a punk kid and a entirely another to be a thug, a thug does harm to innocent folks, such as strong armed robbery, a punk is just a kid that usually can't handle his liquor to well, but with that said even though I wasn't a thug if I was charged yes I would of deserved the record I got, striking a police officer is serious and I was extremely stupid to do so, and as I have said numerous times I thank God that back then the cops knew the neighborhood and who the punks where and who the thugs where. As for should I still be considered no good, as I showed you already do, but no I did my time and paid for my deeds, I believe once a man pays his debt to society he should have a second chance, I do believe that is how are laws are suppose to work, they just usually don't.

where'd I imply Bikers were lower than pond scum? seriously? what are u taking about?

But the rest of that, I see where you're coming from and we agree on a lot of that.
"I thank God that back then the cops knew the neighborhood and who the punks where and who the thugs where."
As you say Judging by actions and knowledge of the neighborhood. not just profiling. exactly.
And Jeff i suspect we all have done things that are stupid and we're ashamed of or should be in jail for. But God is good and past is past. I'm glad they didn't shot you dead in the back for running OR fighting . If they had I'd be pissed and have to do something real effective like post something in the "protect and serve" thread. "LEO's Shot a High school kid in the back for running with a keg of beer!!" or "COPS Shoot dead UNARMED 17 year old kid for a sucker punch!"

[revelarts]

Not answering for Jeff, but my perspective as his brother. He WAS a thug at times, and especially if he was underage drinking and looking to fight with the police. And those actions made him an animal, and he was treated as such. Luckily the thug has since grown up and became a productive member of society. :) He was an idiot, no doubt. Of COURSE he was a criminal, and for longer than just that night! (sorry bro).

But he didn't blame the police afterwards. He admitted and made amends to his life. Had I been reading about it today in the news, and posted here, I would say "what a fucking criminal thug. Only an animal sits back and plans to fight with the police.

nothing like brotherly luv. lol

[Jeff]

Not answering for Jeff, but my perspective as his brother. He WAS a thug at times, and especially if he was underage drinking and looking to fight with the police. And those actions made him an animal, and he was treated as such. Luckily the thug has since grown up and became a productive member of society. :) He was an idiot, no doubt. Of COURSE he was a criminal, and for longer than just that night! (sorry bro).

But he didn't blame the police afterwards. He admitted and made amends to his life. Had I been reading about it today in the news, and posted here, I would say "what a fucking criminal thug. Only an animal sits back and plans to fight with the police.

Love you to Bro. :laugh:

Unfortunately you are exactly right, I did things up until not to long ago that I am not proud of at all, but thank God I seen the light. Now as I try to teach my kids the damage is done, I was the cool kid ( in my eyes anyway ) in school, I did as I pleased and truth be told I graduated HS because I threatened the french teacher ( I don't remember his name I always called him Frenchie ) yea a real punk, but I then ran my body into a early grave trying to provide for my family the best way I could ( see even though I was a punk my dad taught me to at least be a man ) So now I have kids two in Middle school that I am sure have a better education than I do and I am 3/4 crippled from running night and day for so many years, yup the real cool guy.

[Jeff]

where'd I imply Bikers were lower than pond scum? seriously? what are u taking about?

Rev this is what I was talking about, if I have misunderstood please except my apologies if not then what I said stands, but this certainly looks like you are putting down bikers.

Rev said ....EVEN specifically down to bikers and Biker GANGS no less.

But the rest of that, I see where you're coming from and we agree on a lot of that.
"I thank God that back then the cops knew the neighborhood and who the punks where and who the thugs where."
As you say Judging by actions and knowledge of the neighborhood. not just profiling. exactly.
And Jeff i suspect we all have done things that are stupid and we're ashamed of or should be in jail for. But God is good and past is past. I'm glad they didn't shot you dead in the back for running OR fighting . If they had I'd be pissed and have to do something real effective like post something in the "protect and serve" thread. "LEO's Shot a High school kid in the back for running with a keg of beer!!" or "COPS Shoot dead UNARMED 17 year old kid for a sucker punch!"


Rev I got that out of your first reply to this thread, again if I mis read I apologize but it sure looks like you are saying bikers and Biker gangs no less.

[revelarts]

Rev I got that out of your first reply to this thread, again if I mis read I apologize but it sure looks like you are saying bikers and Biker gangs no less.
no problem, well I meant no offense but In general Biker Gangs don't cultivate the rep of the Boy and Girl Scouts.
I know a lot of biker groups and clubs are just that. But Biker gangs are often filled or laced with strait up criminal gang members. So yeah a lot of those guys are lowlife criminals. in and outta prison running drugs, guns, women, stealing and generally causing trouble. So in that respect "no less" applies it seems to me. am i off base there?

[red state]

the same as what police SHOULD do.
The least amount of force possible to defend yourself.
based on your training/knowledge, your options, your state of mind. But life or death you do what you can.

But LEOs have every advantage. And since they do they should alway have the most restraint. they come to every official encounter with training and tools for violence literally IN HAND. Plus a gang of brothers ready to pile on.


Outstanding, in my humble opinion, because it truly sheds light on something that we should all reconsider. They do have training and I do believe that they can use other means (even flight) when their lives are in "danger". The Brown case is very telling as I believe the cop was RIGHT in what he did......he had no other recourse and death was sure to follow. HoWEvEr, if I'm not beating a cop to death and have merely become aggressive in tone or body language, he has no right to shoot me for pete's sake. Heck, I don't agree, either, that they have the right to shoot me in the back for running.

As for Noir's summary; YES, I believe those who have spoken up have it down pat BUT I'd like to mention a few bad apples in the 60's who may or may not be after certain groups or individuals. I also want to point out that if you've been cheating on a cop's wife, you may want to ready yourself. HA!!!! Another thing to consider is that many cops do, INDEED, have an addiction to adrenaline. My nephew is one such personality but thank God, he grew out of this and is now in a safer environment as a Melbourne Cop. I've always been taught to respect "the LAW" and my church actually has a special LAW ENFORCEMENT SUNDAY to honor cops (who come to church that day in full dress) but that doesn't mean that I don't know that many (MANY) feel that they are above the law. One such guy was a missionary to cops who was once a State Trooper. I could tell by looking at him that he was not one of the better ones and do not attend church when he's there. He verified my analysis of him the first Sunday he spoke by his admission that he longed for a high speed car chase. Does anyone realize how many "LAW ABIDING CITIZENS" are killed each year in "HOT PURSUIT"?!!! No.....I don't need a cop, have never been helped by a cop and don't expect help from a cop when I am looking down a criminal's barrel (or muSLUM's blade). Heck, I don't expect help from them when I'm trying to change a tire on a busy highway cuz they can't even drag a deer off the road anymore when that is especially dangerous. They just let the thing rot these days or let it cause an accident but God forbid that I get between them and the doughnut shop (literally). As for another question; how many times have any of you been passed by a cop only to learn that he pulled in to a doughnut shop, Subway or "other". It happens to me all the time.......

I still respect the "LAW" but feel more than ever that we (my community anyway) needs 50% less tax money going to 50% less cops while allowing the 2nd Amendment take care of things as it once did. The object is to survive and if both the cop and (WE) are smart.....we will survive most encounters.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So far we have
2 Listen to the police an hope they don't kill you.
1 defend yourself, make sure you have witnesses.
1 you wont have time to react even if you wanted to.


Defend your life at ALL times. regardless of who the attacker may be.
Once dead, there are not any overs.. and does not matter what job/position of authority your would be killer has..
Survival= Law of the Jungle--use any justification you may care to use.
Best to not be in the wrong if you are forced to shoot a cop but if forced--fire away is my position on the topic.
Better to be judged by 12 than it is to be carried by six...--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Love you to Bro. :laugh:

Unfortunately you are exactly right, I did things up until not to long ago that I am not proud of at all, but thank God I seen the light. Now as I try to teach my kids the damage is done, I was the cool kid ( in my eyes anyway ) in school, I did as I pleased and truth be told I graduated HS because I threatened the french teacher ( I don't remember his name I always called him Frenchie ) yea a real punk, but I then ran my body into a early grave trying to provide for my family the best way I could ( see even though I was a punk my dad taught me to at least be a man ) So now I have kids two in Middle school that I am sure have a better education than I do and I am 3/4 crippled from running night and day for so many years, yup the real cool guy.

Jeff, we old dogs that survived to this age know a thing or two simply because we've been there, done that and EVEN SURVIVED IT! :laugh:
I punished my body by going 30+ years with average of 4 to 5 hours sleep a night. I also spent better part of 20 years working average of 70+ hour weeks at two jobs. At one job 25 years ago I worked either 6 - 12 hour shifts or 6 - 15 hour shifts every week. Did that for 5 years.
I do not want any of my kids to ever work like that. Nor to be the hell raiser that I was once..-Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

It is often mentioned in 'policeman killed a citizen' threads that because the policemen felt their life was in danger, they had the right to kill the citizen, effectively in self defence. Does this slice both ways?

As a thought experiment I'd like to know what DP members think is the correct response if a citizen finds themselves in a position were they believe their life is in danger because of a policemen?

The biggest thing is to remain calm. Too many people get riled, and start making fast hand motions. If the cop has a gun out, you need to understand that he views you as a threat at that moment, and since he's got a gun in hand, that's what he's going to use.

While you should generally comply with the cops, be certain to be clear about your rights, and give your name to the officer. People are less likely to perceive someone they know as a threat, and are thus less likely to shoot. Reiterate that you are not armed, that you will comply with the officer, and do so as calmly as possible, like youre soothing someone.

Now there is a chance that the officer really is far gone enough that they shouldn't be in uniform at the moment. Maybe they lost a loved one, whatever. The key lies in evaluating your situation. If the cop has his gun out, then realistically, there's not much you can do at that point. unless you've been secretly doing western style fast draw competitions, he's gonna shoot you first.

If not, the further talking may help. Make a show of complying, while restating your rights (not, "I'm a sovereign citizen!". That's just mindless yelling) clearly, only coming to point of physical defense only if the cop goes over the line first, then go for disabling moves, not damage. Cops are recorded constantly nowadays from their vehicle, so as long as you continue speaking and acting in a non - threatening manner, a valid defense motive can be put together.