Gay man, former lesbian on whether they can change

[nevadamedic]

Story Highlights

Poll shows most Americans believe gays cannot change their orientation
Focus on the Family, Family Research Council, say the public is misinformed
Gay rights groups hail poll as a sign that attitudes toward gays are changing

Story

After five years of trying to date girls and to conform and conceal his sexuality, 18-year-old Steven Field told his friends and family that he was gay.


Steven Field, now 25, came out to his friends and family when he was 18.

"I wasn't being honest to myself," Field, now 25, said of his closeted high school years in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois.

Being gay was natural for him, Field, who lives in Washington, said in a Thursday phone interview. "I didn't choose to be gay anymore than straight people choose to be straight."

To those who would disagree with him, Field said, "You don't choose who you love."

Full Story............
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/personal/06/29/poll.reaction/index.html

He is right about that, straight people cant help who we fall in-love with or how we feel, so it's got to be the same way for them.

[OCA]

http://www.narth.com/docs/helporhind.html

[darin]

'trying' to date girls? Look - as long as they aren't having sex w/ somebody of their gender, they are not 'homosexuals'. (shrug)

[nevadamedic]

'trying' to date girls? Look - as long as they aren't having sex w/ somebody of their gender, they are not 'homosexuals'. (shrug)

If they are dating a person of the same gender that makes them homosexuals and lesbians.

[darin]

If they are dating a person of the same gender that makes them homosexuals and lesbians.

If they start relationships for the purpose of having sex or sexual relations with someone of the same gender - why is this so tough to understand?

[nevadamedic]

If they start relationships for the purpose of having sex or sexual relations with someone of the same gender - why is this so tough to understand?

It's not, but you can be a gay or lesbian and not have sex with someone of the same sex. Anyone who pursues a relationship, dates or has an interest in someone of the same sex is gay or is atleast Bi.

[avatar4321]

actually, you do chose who you love.

[darin]

It's not, but you can be a gay or lesbian and not have sex with someone of the same sex. Anyone who pursues a relationship, dates or has an interest in someone of the same sex is gay or is atleast Bi.

Desperate enough to reply to something that you bump this after going-on 3 weeks? lmao :)

[Hagbard Celine]

Even if they could, why should they change their sexual preference for you guys?

[darin]

Even if they could, why should they change their sexual preference for you guys?

Why would you think 'we think' people should change 'for us'? Did I miss something in this thread?

[Hagbard Celine]

Why would you think 'we think' people should change 'for us'? Did I miss something in this thread?

Well, I thought the underlying assumption was that they should change their personal preference. Why should they?

[theHawk]

Well, I thought the underlying assumption was that they should change their personal preference. Why should they?

Because going around licking people's nutsacks is gay.

[Hagbard Celine]

Because going around licking people's nutsacks is gay.

That is a valid point, but it still boils down to a personal preference and it doesn't explain why they should change.

[darin]

That is a valid point, but it still boils down to a personal preference and it doesn't explain why they should change.

dmp would like them to change for their own good. The activities in which they participate will shorten their lives, statistically, and lead to increased risks of violence against them, infection, and heart-ache. I would love to see people addicted to homosexual acts get the treatment they deserve.

[Hagbard Celine]

dmp would like them to change for their own good. The activities in which they participate will shorten their lives, statistically, and lead to increased risks of violence against them, infection, and heart-ache. I would love to see people addicted to homosexual acts get the treatment they deserve.

That is very philanthropic of you dmp.

[darin]

That is very philanthropic of you dmp.

dmp likes people. dmp wants people to live their lives to the fullest. It's impossible to live one's life to the fullest if one is harming one's body and mind and soul.

[Hagbard Celine]

dmp likes people. dmp wants people to live their lives to the fullest. It's impossible to live one's life to the fullest if one is harming one's body and mind and soul.

I agree, but I think it is also impossible to live one's life to the fullest if one lies to oneself and ignores and buries emotions and feelings deep down in oneself. Pun intended.

[darin]

I agree, but I think it is also impossible to live one's life to the fullest if one lies to oneself and ignores and buries emotions and feelings deep down in oneself. Pun intended.

One should 'change' one's emotions; like a clinically-depressed person...or a paranoid schitzo - Emotions are formed from experiences. If somebody leans towards 'wanting' to do something sexual with somebody of their same gender, they 'could' (and should) seek therapy/help/whatever. Am I not living life to the fullest because I ignore MY emotions telling me to punch a liberal in the throat? Or to drive at 100mph down the freeway?

Being an adult means a number of things - one of which is to control impulses which may be destructive...such as homosexual conduct.

[Abbey Marie]

One should 'change' one's emotions; like a clinically-depressed person...or a paranoid schitzo - Emotions are formed from experiences. If somebody leans towards 'wanting' to do something sexual with somebody of their same gender, they 'could' (and should) seek therapy/help/whatever. Am I not living life to the fullest because I ignore MY emotions telling me to punch a liberal in the throat? Or to drive at 100mph down the freeway?

Being an adult means a number of things - one of which is to control impulses which may be destructive...such as homosexual conduct.

D, if liberals stand for anything, it's do whatever feels good to you at the moment, and anyone who doesn't like it is a judgmental bigot, phobic, etc.

[darin]

D, if liberals stand for anything, it's do whatever feels good to you at the moment, and anyone who doesn't like it is a judgmental bigot, phobic, etc.

Yup - they typically lack strategic, or long-term mindset. They are the proverbial grasshopper, while conservatives are the 'ant'. :)

[Hagbard Celine]

D, if liberals stand for anything, it's do whatever feels good to you at the moment, and anyone who doesn't like it is a judgmental bigot, phobic, etc.

Well, that's a pretty damn judgemental statement there Abbey. Especially considering that the whole philosophy behind what you've brought up here is to live and let live.

[glockmail]

I agree, but I think it is also impossible to live one's life to the fullest if one lies to oneself and ignores and buries emotions and feelings deep down in oneself. Pun intended. Hitler really, really wanted to kill all Jews, and became emotionally distraught when foreigners tried to stop him.

[Hagbard Celine]

Hitler really, really wanted to kill all Jews, and became emotionally distraught when foreigners tried to stop him.

Allowing mass murder is definately the same as allowing individuals to express their sexual preferences freely. Good point.

[glockmail]

Allowing mass murder is definately the same as allowing individuals to express their sexual preferences freely. Good point. I thought so as well. Both the queers and Hitler are responsible for much death and destruction.

[Hagbard Celine]

I thought so as well. Both the queers and Hitler are responsible for much death and destruction.

Yes, I concur. Why just the other day my wagon train passed through a ghost town that had been decimated by a roving band of gays--so I definately "get" the connection you've made between Hitler, who persecuted and murdered gays, and the present state of the gay community. Well done glockmail. Well done.

[avatar4321]

Even if they could, why should they change their sexual preference for you guys?

we dont want them to change for us. we want them to change cause its right and its the only thing that is ever going to bring them true happiness.

[Hagbard Celine]

we dont want them to change for us. we want them to change cause its right and its the only thing that is ever going to bring them true happiness.

How do you know "they" are unhappy being gay?

[OCA]

Well, I thought the underlying assumption was that they should change their personal preference. Why should they?

Because sticking your schlong in some guy's shit pit is wrong no matter how you slice it.

[OCA]

How do you know "they" are unhappy being gay?

Would you be happy with balls on your chin? They are simply like drug addicts, looking for happiness where none exists.

[darin]

How do you know "they" are unhappy being gay?

Please stop putting words in peoples' uh...mouth? Thread?

Gay people can be 'happy' - sorta. It becomes like a religion. Folk pretend happiness. Folk put on 'masks' if you will; anything they feel shields them from Absolute Truth - their mantra may include any/all of the following:


"I'm just BORN this way!"
"I knew when I was a young boy, I wanted to be a woman!"
"I can't HELP who I love!"
"Why would I CHOOSE this way?"
"Hillary Clinton For PRESIDENT!"

They need deep, harsh, psychological HELP. They have feelings they can't explain. They have issues with parents? A molesting Family member? Stranger?

Instead of finding out WHY they crave masculine attention, they simply go out and FIND it. It's the same with Normal people. Girls often become sluts because they lack something deep-down-inside them (no pun intended...well..sorta.. :)). They have issues with their dads, IMO. The sluttiness simply glosses over, or acts as a band-aide. When they're actively whoring, they get that feeling they need - a Man's approval? Maybe? Some women find that in God - Christ provides for them a sense of masculine security and acceptance. There could be, and likely are, many reasons/scenarios.

Whatever the inclination's cause - VERY FEW people alive are completely NOT-responsible for their actions.

[avatar4321]

How do you know "they" are unhappy being gay?

because wickedness never is happiness. You can't do wrong and be happy.

[theHawk]

"Hillary Clinton For PRESIDENT!"

Evidence of what homosexuality can lead to. :lol:

[Hagbard Celine]

because wickedness never is happiness. You can't do wrong and be happy.

Ultimately, your basis for why homosexuality is "wickedness" is the Bible correct?

[Abbey Marie]

Well, that's a pretty damn judgemental statement there Abbey. Especially considering that the whole philosophy behind what you've brought up here is to live and let live.

It's a record. I got called judgmental in the very next post.

Btw, what "live and let live" philosophy did I bring up here? I only made one post, and it wasn't about a philosophy.

[Hagbard Celine]

What "live and let live" philosophy did I bring up here? I only made one post, and it wasn't about a philosophy.

The so-called "liberal" philosophy you brought up;e.g. "what liberals stand for." The only "liberal" philosophy I know of is "live and let live."


D, if liberals stand for anything, it's do whatever feels good to you at the moment, and anyone who doesn't like it is a judgmental bigot, phobic, etc.

[Hagbard Celine]

It's a record. I got called judgmental in the very next post.

Btw, what "live and let live" philosophy did I bring up here? I only made one post, and it wasn't about a philosophy.


D, if liberals stand for anything, it's do whatever feels good to you at the moment, and anyone who doesn't like it is a judgmental bigot, phobic, etc.This isn't judgemental of liberals?

[darin]

This isn't judgemental of liberals?

Do you like playing word-games? Or is this happening by accident?

Is it "Judgmental" of Jews to say they don't eat Pork? (shrug).

[glockmail]

Yes, I concur. Why just the other day my wagon train passed through a ghost town that had been decimated by a roving band of gays--so I definately "get" the connection you've made between Hitler, who persecuted and murdered gays, and the present state of the gay community. Well done glockmail. Well done. Why Hag, I'm pleasantly surprised. You have become much more open minded. :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

Ultimately, your basis for why homosexuality is "wickedness" is the Bible correct?

No. the basis for it being wickedness is the inherent misuse and abuse of the power of creation. The basis is sheer fact.

There is a reason homosexuals have a high suicide rate. and its not because people are intolerant to them. Its because they are miserable.

[Hagbard Celine]

Do you like playing word-games? Or is this happening by accident?

Is it "Judgmental" of Jews to say they don't eat Pork? (shrug).

Opinions are different from facts dmp. Just because Abbey states an opinion doesn't make it fact at all.

[darin]

Opinions are different from facts dmp. Just because Abbey states an opinion doesn't make it fact at all.

But you're playing word games. Instead of debating against Abbey's (correct) Claim about liberals, you are side-tracking on the word she used. Instead of trying to show that Libs are NOT as she claimed, you're wrapped-around-the-axles with her using words you choose to call 'judgmental' - regardless of their truth (or lack of truth, or whatever).

The point is 'It doesn't MATTER if her words are judgmental or not - not when it comes to their accuracy." Accuracy which is SPOT-ON IMO, based on my experience. :)

[Hagbard Celine]

But you're playing word games. Instead of debating against Abbey's (correct) Claim about liberals, you are side-tracking on the word she used. Instead of trying to show that Libs are NOT as she claimed, you're wrapped-around-the-axles with her using words you choose to call 'judgmental' - regardless of their truth (or lack of truth, or whatever).

The point is 'It doesn't MATTER if her words are judgmental or not - not when it comes to their accuracy." Accuracy which is SPOT-ON IMO, based on my experience. :)

But even you admit that it's an opinion. And a poorly-thought-out opinion in my opinion too. You can no more lump all liberals together into your stereotype than you can lump all blacks into the stereotype that they all love watermelon and fried chicken. In reality, the real-world definition of "liberal" isn't even all that clear. In short, you and most of the other so-called conservatives on this board use the term "liberal" to describe anything you don't like. Hardly enough of a nomenclature to ascribe it to such a large group of people.

I'm a "liberal" under ya'll's definition (which really I'm not, I'm more of a libertarian) but I don't think I fall into your opinionated little categorization. I think "live and let live" is a great way of thinking. I don't think gays have any bearing on my life or yours either. I think they should be allowed to think and do as they please within the confines of the law. I also recognize the fact that constantly obsessing over their existence as you and the others do is weird and when you call them names like "queer" for no reason other than to be controversial, it IS bigotry. I don't think the fact that they can or can't change their sexual orientation by choice has any bearing on whether or not they should or shouldn't be gay. None of you have been able to prove that being gay is bad for anyone. Yes, anal sex is a means of transferring std's, but so is vaginal sex. The truth is that being gay is something that only affects the gay person and his or her partner. That's it. It's my opinion that an act's morality is derived from whether or not that act negatively affects a sentient being. If it does, I question the act's morality. Since gay people seem to be happy in their relationships, I don't see homosexuality as an "immoral" act. The fact that you think it is immoral is derived strictly from the Bible or your religious beliefs and nothing else. And since your beliefs are derived from religion, something that has very little to do with fact at all, I think they amount to nothing more than opinions.

[nevadamedic]

Evidence of what homosexuality can lead to. :lol:

:lol:

[darin]

you and most of the other so-called conservatives on this board use the term "liberal" to describe anything you don't like. Hardly enough of a nomenclature to ascribe it to such a large group of people.

Very judgmental of you...



I'm a "liberal" under ya'll's definition (which really I'm not, I'm more of a libertarian) but I don't think I fall into your opinionated little categorization.


Then that's fine for you! I don't agree with your self-assessment, though, based on a number of comments I've read. I think you are very-close to a "Lib" as we use the term.


I think "live and let live" is a great way of thinking. I don't think gays have any bearing on my life or yours either. I think they should be allowed to think and do as they please within the confines of the law. I also recognize the fact that constantly obsessing over their existence as you and the others do is weird and when you call them names like "queer" for no reason other than to be controversial, it IS bigotry. I don't think the fact that they can or can't change their sexual orientation by choice has any bearing on whether or not they should or shouldn't be gay. None of you have been able to prove that being gay is bad for anyone. Yes, anal sex is a means of transferring std's, but so is vaginal sex. The truth is that being gay is something that only affects the gay person and his or her partner. That's it. It's my opinion that an act's morality is derived from whether or not that act negatively affects a sentient being. If it does, I question the act's morality. Since gay people seem to be happy in their relationships, I don't see homosexuality as an "immoral" act. The fact that you think it is immoral is derived strictly from the Bible or your religious beliefs and nothing else. And since your beliefs are derived from religion, something that has very little to do with fact at all, I think they amount to nothing more than opinions.

I think you're doing this - You're looking for EVERY POSSIBLE instance where her generalization may NOT fit...and focusing on that. You can't see the forest, for all the trees in your way.

[Abbey Marie]

But even you admit that it's an opinion. And a poorly-thought-out opinion in my opinion too. You can no more lump all liberals together into your stereotype than you can lump all blacks into the stereotype that they all love watermelon and fried chicken. In reality, the real-world definition of "liberal" isn't even all that clear. In short, you and most of the other so-called conservatives on this board use the term "liberal" to describe anything you don't like. Hardly enough of a nomenclature to ascribe it to such a large group of people.

I'm a "liberal" under ya'll's definition (which really I'm not, I'm more of a libertarian) but I don't think I fall into your opinionated little categorization. I think "live and let live" is a great way of thinking. I don't think gays have any bearing on my life or yours either. I think they should be allowed to think and do as they please within the confines of the law. I also recognize the fact that constantly obsessing over their existence as you and the others do is weird and when you call them names like "queer" for no reason other than to be controversial, it IS bigotry. I don't think the fact that they can or can't change their sexual orientation by choice has any bearing on whether or not they should or shouldn't be gay. None of you have been able to prove that being gay is bad for anyone. Yes, anal sex is a means of transferring std's, but so is vaginal sex. The truth is that being gay is something that only affects the gay person and his or her partner. That's it. It's my opinion that an act's morality is derived from whether or not that act negatively affects a sentient being. If it does, I question the act's morality. Since gay people seem to be happy in their relationships, I don't see homosexuality as an "immoral" act. The fact that you think it is immoral is derived strictly from the Bible or your religious beliefs and nothing else. And since your beliefs are derived from religion, something that has very little to do with fact at all, I think they amount to nothing more than opinions.


Sterotypes exist for a reason, H. And when I mention a characteristic of a group or as you put it, a "philosophy", I, like most people, am generalizing, and you may be that fine exception to the rule that we always hear about. But my opinion is not poorly thought out as you so condescendingly put it. It is based on the statements and behaviors of countless self-proclaimed liberals. One can correctly predict their opinions on practically any social or political issue at any time. Hence, the truth that supports the so-called stereotype.

[avatar4321]

But even you admit that it's an opinion. And a poorly-thought-out opinion in my opinion too. You can no more lump all liberals together into your stereotype than you can lump all blacks into the stereotype that they all love watermelon and fried chicken. In reality, the real-world definition of "liberal" isn't even all that clear. In short, you and most of the other so-called conservatives on this board use the term "liberal" to describe anything you don't like. Hardly enough of a nomenclature to ascribe it to such a large group of people.

I'm a "liberal" under ya'll's definition (which really I'm not, I'm more of a libertarian) but I don't think I fall into your opinionated little categorization. I think "live and let live" is a great way of thinking. I don't think gays have any bearing on my life or yours either. I think they should be allowed to think and do as they please within the confines of the law. I also recognize the fact that constantly obsessing over their existence as you and the others do is weird and when you call them names like "queer" for no reason other than to be controversial, it IS bigotry. I don't think the fact that they can or can't change their sexual orientation by choice has any bearing on whether or not they should or shouldn't be gay. None of you have been able to prove that being gay is bad for anyone. Yes, anal sex is a means of transferring std's, but so is vaginal sex. The truth is that being gay is something that only affects the gay person and his or her partner. That's it. It's my opinion that an act's morality is derived from whether or not that act negatively affects a sentient being. If it does, I question the act's morality. Since gay people seem to be happy in their relationships, I don't see homosexuality as an "immoral" act. The fact that you think it is immoral is derived strictly from the Bible or your religious beliefs and nothing else. And since your beliefs are derived from religion, something that has very little to do with fact at all, I think they amount to nothing more than opinions.

That's where you are wrong. everyone's life affects those arond us. Our life does not live in a vaccuum. Every action we take affects those around us.

And their actions do negatively affect each other. thus by your own definition its wrong.

But that is a rather simplistic view of morality anyway.

[OCA]

than you can lump all blacks into the stereotype that they all love watermelon and fried chicken.

They don't all love fried chicken and watermelon? Shit every one I know will eat the shit out of some yardbird.

[jimnyc]

Because going around licking people's nutsacks is gay.

My brain just can't comprehend how one man would allow himself to perform such vile acts with another man. Honestly, I don't think theirs does either, which is why I think they need treatment for their disease, not acceptance.


How do you know "they" are unhappy being gay?

They very well might not be. A mongoloid might not necessarily be unhappy either. Serial murderers and rapists have been known to be delighted with their works. The bottom line is that their actions are repulsive and completely wreak of a mental illness. I for one am "happy" that society is rejecting them as "normal". The next step is getting them help.


Because sticking your schlong in some guy's shit pit is wrong no matter how you slice it.

That's correct, but when you're a sexual deviant you are willing to go to great and disgusting lengths to get your rocks off. I'd rather chop mine off and live life sex free than give in to such disgusting perversions.


They don't all love fried chicken and watermelon? Shit every one I know will eat the shit out of some yardbird.

I've never met a black person that didn't like fried chicken or watermelon. Not that I really care either. I've also not met many white people that didn't enjoy a good steak. I like chicken and watermelon too, I just don't eat it religiously as some do! :)

[Yurt]

Story Highlights


He is right about that, straight people cant help who we fall in-love with or how we feel, so it's got to be the same way for them.

Can a straight person choose not to have sexual intercourse if they believe that is God's will?

[nevadamedic]

Can a straight person choose not to have sexual intercourse if they believe that is God's will?

Apparently, since a lot of people do that.