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BBA
06-29-2007, 07:58 AM
I saw this in the local newspaper online today...thought I'd share.


Ex-Marine is top gun at Fla. sub shop

BY ERIKA BERAS AND JENNIFER LEBOVICH
THE MIAMI HERALD

The night started like many for John Lovell, a 71-year-old ex-Marine and helicopter pilot who served two presidents. Late dinner alone at a Plantation Subway shop -- veggie sub, soda, oatmeal cookie.

Wednesday night, though, Lovell's meal was interrupted by an armed robbery. Two gunmen stormed into the sandwich shop at about 11 p.m., robbed the cashier and tried to shove Lovell -- the lone customer -- into the bathroom. Two bullets later, one gunman was dead, another was wounded and Lovell was being hailed as a hero.

''There's no such thing as an ex-Marine, and he typifies this,'' said longtime friend Wesley White.

''What he did last night was unbelievable Samaritan spirit,'' said shop owner Khalid Malik.

Lovell already was a great customer at the Jacaranda Square Subway, which is located west of Fort Lauderdale.

Malik said: He comes by almost every night, slides into a back booth and orders the six-inch veggie sub, cookie and soft drink. But now, said Malik, ``I love him a lot more.''

No one could find Lovell on Thursday. But when he shows up again, Malik said, the hero will have free heroes at the shop for life.

The Subway video surveillance cameras, which the owner had installed only a week ago -- ''just to be on the safe side'' -- caught the whole drama.

The robbers got Lovell's money. But Lovell, who neighbors and friends say is in tiptop shape and looks years younger than he really is, pulled out his handgun and shot both in the head.

Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale died. Fredrick Gadson, 21, of Fort Lauderdale, was critically wounded.

The front window was blown out and cash strewn around the shop.

''There were fives and rolls of coins everywhere,'' said Detective Robert Rettig of the Plantation Police Department.

Rettig said Lovell, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, is not expected to be charged. ''He was in fear for his life,'' Rettig said.

Reporters and television crews clustered Thursday outside Lovell's two-story town house in Plantation, hoping for an interview. He didn't show.

Friends said Lovell is amicable and soft-spoken, doesn't drink or smoke, and is a no-nonsense kind of guy.

''There's no BS with him,'' said White, of Yulee. 'You could compare him to Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry. But because of his lifestyle, he's like `Clean Harry.' ''

Neighbors and friends said he is unmarried, drives a Corvette and sometimes is away for long periods of time. A neighbor collected his mail Thursday.

At one point during his Marine career, the Kentucky native served as a pilot for presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. After retiring from the Corps, he became a pilot for Delta and Pan Am.

Bryan Sklar, who serves on the Townhouses at Jacaranda board with Lovell, said he is a straight-up guy.

''I've seen pictures of him with John F. Kennedy,'' Sklar said.

After the holdup Wednesday night, the suspects were transported to Broward General Medical Center, where Arrindell was later pronounced dead. Gadson, listed Thursday night in serious condition, faces armed robbery charges. And because someone was killed during the crime, he also will be charged with murder, authorities said.

JohnDoe
06-29-2007, 08:28 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

darin
06-29-2007, 08:37 AM
This is another GOOD NEWS story of how a Legal Fire arm ensured there were no victims.

shattered
06-29-2007, 08:41 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

What? Yours is probably close to the dumbest post of the morning... So, what..they should have been shot in the kneecap, allowed to "serve their debt" to society, be released, and head for round 2? Nono.

If you're going to do something right, try to do it right the first time, so someone else doesn't have to redo it later.

There is no place in productive society for people like that.

BBA
06-29-2007, 08:45 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

I think it would depend on the law enforcement officer in question. There's a public indoor shooting range run by local law enforcment near me. A friend of mine goes there quite often. He has been told by the officers working there that if he finds himself in this type of situation, don't shoot to incapacitate, shoot to kill. Perhaps it was said a little tongue-in-cheek (I wasn't there), but I've heard it from others as well.

I'm personally thankful he went for headshots and find it unfortunate that one survived. Crime, especially violent crime, has been on the rise in Florida, which is in contrast to the nation as a whole.

jackass
06-29-2007, 08:46 AM
A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.


Are you kidding me? If they pull their weapon they are trained to kill, not disarm. I have family and friends in the police force and there are no "movie" knee shots to disarm.
What he did was the right thing to do. He protected himself and the other innocent victims.

BBA
06-29-2007, 08:48 AM
allowed to "serve their debt" to society

At taxpayer's expense, no less.

darin
06-29-2007, 08:52 AM
I'm personally thankful he went for headshots and find it unfortunate that one survived. Crime, especially violent crime, has been on the rise in Florida, which is in contrast to the nation as a whole.

I wonder if the survivor will Sue the man, AND the store.

shattered
06-29-2007, 08:57 AM
At taxpayer's expense, no less.

Oh, of course. Anything less would be cruel and unusual punishment. :rolleyes:

glockmail
06-29-2007, 09:09 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

Although I have neither been a cop or in the military, My CCW training taught me to aim for the torso, being the largest target and center of mass. I do find it surprising he went for head shots. He must be very well trained.

BTW, anyone seen gunny lately? Maybe that was him. :laugh2:

Gaffer
06-29-2007, 09:45 AM
If he was police trained he would have put two in the chest and one in the head of each robber. He most likely took the best shot available to end the situation quick. A bullet to any other part of the body would have left the robbers able to fire back. A shot to the head insures they will go down.

First priority is to eliminate the threat.

He shot two pieces of garbage. Don't waste sympathy on them.

JohnDoe
06-29-2007, 10:46 AM
If he was police trained he would have put two in the chest and one in the head of each robber. He most likely took the best shot available to end the situation quick. A bullet to any other part of the body would have left the robbers able to fire back. A shot to the head insures they will go down.

First priority is to eliminate the threat.

He shot two pieces of garbage. Don't waste sympathy on them.

Yeah, just got my butt chewed off by my spouse no less, who agrees with you!

Kathianne
06-29-2007, 10:49 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

That part about cops not shooting to kill, that's only on tv. My uncle was a Captain on Chicago PD, my brother is Chief Deputy of Police today. The only time they would shoot, would be to kill. Marines get way more practice than police. ;)

5stringJeff
06-29-2007, 01:17 PM
On one hand, you hate to see anyone get shot. But, OTOH, the two armed robbers got what they deserved. And this dude is a hero.

Gaffer
06-29-2007, 03:57 PM
That part about cops not shooting to kill, that's only on tv. My uncle was a Captain on Chicago PD, my brother is Chief Deputy of Police today. The only time they would shoot, would be to kill. Marines get way more practice than police. ;)

Very true Kath. I was a deputy sheriff for eight and half years. And your always taught to shoot to kill. You aim at the largest part of the target. We had to qualify twice a year and we didn't just shoot at targets, we did close quarter combat training.

There is no such thing as shot to wound.

Abbey Marie
06-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Veggie sub lovers are the best. :)

Seriously, though, I think this guy did the right thing under the circumstances. If more people did this, these crimes would all but stop.

HotPinkConsevative
11-07-2007, 12:33 AM
He was totally in the right, he did what had to be done in the situation that he was in, besides they were most likely have shot him if he hadn't shot them first, it's there fault for trying to rob everybody in the first place

diuretic
11-07-2007, 03:48 AM
I think he is a hero, but I also wish he had not shot them in the head, shot to kill....

I realize that he was threatened and felt he had to protect himself and OTHERS!

A trained cop would have probably not have shot them point blank, in the head, due to his training.

But a Marine is trained to kill, or be killed.

I am grateful that he was there and stopped these armed criminals, I still wish that he had not killed one of them, and probably the other guy too.

jd - depending on how it went, I may well have shot them in the head. Thankfully I've never had to pull the trigger but a couple of times I've been close. Each of those couple of times I would have had no compunction but to shoot if I had to, thankfully I didn't have to.

That's not gum-flapping, that's a considered response. One man, albeit armed, against two armed robbers, is in great peril. I don't know the details and I'm not going to pronounce but this bloke is a very courageous man.

diuretic
11-07-2007, 03:52 AM
I think it would depend on the law enforcement officer in question. There's a public indoor shooting range run by local law enforcment near me. A friend of mine goes there quite often. He has been told by the officers working there that if he finds himself in this type of situation, don't shoot to incapacitate, shoot to kill. Perhaps it was said a little tongue-in-cheek (I wasn't there), but I've heard it from others as well.

I'm personally thankful he went for headshots and find it unfortunate that one survived. Crime, especially violent crime, has been on the rise in Florida, which is in contrast to the nation as a whole.

I don't know how it is in the States (well I do but I'm not going to be an arrogant prick and pronounce on it) but here we're trained to shoot to "incapacitate". And I have to tell you that's a legal fiction. "Incapacitate" is a nice word meaning, "to kill." I have never been trained to do anything other than shoot to kill, I mean "incapacitate".

darin
11-07-2007, 08:27 AM
bumping this thread after nearly SIX MONTHS?

82Marine89
11-07-2007, 08:39 AM
Ex-Marine is top gun at Fla. sub shop



''There's no such thing as an ex-Marine, and he typifies this,'' said longtime friend Wesley White.


There is no such thing as an ex-Marine. Only former Marines. He did good.


The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.
Gen. John "Black Jack" Pershing, U.S. Army
Commander of American Forces in World War I