Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?


Heaven, from what we can speculate, seems to be a system that some would call a tyranny as no one was allowed to question anything or ask for change in leadership or policies.

Was Satan and the third of angels who rejected tyranny wrong to demand equal rights, and if so, are all people who demand equal rights on earth also doing something satanic?

Is this why most religions are reluctant to give women and gays equality? Do Christians and Muslims think equality to be evil and satanic?

Do religious people think that their Gods frown on the notions of equality of all people and is that why believers deny women and gays equality?

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

Is someone convicted of premeditated homicide right to demand an equal place in society with someone who has broken no laws?

[NightTrain]

Ol' Gnostic sure is keen on gay rights.

Are Christians in Canada oppressing your man-desire, Gnostic? Is that what your rants are all about?

[aboutime]

Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?


Heaven, from what we can speculate, seems to be a system that some would call a tyranny as no one was allowed to question anything or ask for change in leadership or policies.

Was Satan and the third of angels who rejected tyranny wrong to demand equal rights, and if so, are all people who demand equal rights on earth also doing something satanic?

Is this why most religions are reluctant to give women and gays equality? Do Christians and Muslims think equality to be evil and satanic?

Do religious people think that their Gods frown on the notions of equality of all people and is that why believers deny women and gays equality?

Regards
DL






Gnostic. Why must you come here to express your displeasure with not being a member of your local NAMBLA? You sound like you have been a rejected, sidewalk occupant of THAN FRAN THISCO.

[revelarts]

Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?
Heaven, from what we can speculate, seems to be a system that some would call a tyranny as no one was allowed to question anything or ask for change in leadership or policies.
Was Satan and the third of angels who rejected tyranny wrong to demand equal rights, and if so, are all people who demand equal rights on earth also doing something satanic?
Is this why most religions are reluctant to give women and gays equality? Do Christians and Muslims think equality to be evil and satanic?
Do religious people think that their Gods frown on the notions of equality of all people and is that why believers deny women and gays equality?
Regards
DL

"Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?"

equal rights? well.

If he were somehow equal to the creator of every angel and the universe then he might have a "right".
Until then, yes he was wrong. Blindingly arrogantly wrong.
So the rest of your questions/assertions don't follow simply for that fact alone.


But concerning the other question.
every human being is equal in our humanity,
And we, as Satan and than angels, are under God's command.
Some of God's commands outline who should and should not be married, who should and should not have sex even.

Could it be that those who want to do otherwise are like Satan in thinking they know better than God who created them?

[DragonStryk72]

Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?


Heaven, from what we can speculate, seems to be a system that some would call a tyranny as no one was allowed to question anything or ask for change in leadership or policies.

Was Satan and the third of angels who rejected tyranny wrong to demand equal rights, and if so, are all people who demand equal rights on earth also doing something satanic?

Is this why most religions are reluctant to give women and gays equality? Do Christians and Muslims think equality to be evil and satanic?

Do religious people think that their Gods frown on the notions of equality of all people and is that why believers deny women and gays equality?

Regards
DL



Um, dude, Satan wasn't demanding equal rights, he was trying to launch a military coup to put himself in charge, so yeah, equal in that he gets to be king and rule over everyone else. Yeah, he got cast out for that, that's incredibly reasonable. If you live in my house, you are under my rules, and "Do not lead an armed insurrection against me" is a pretty huge violation of those rules, and I'm kicking your dumb ass out, along with the idiots that went along with it.

Christians aren't reluctant to give women equality. Look at every argument against Hilary as president on this site. Nothing to do with her sex, and all to do with her political stance. That's as equal as you really get, being lampooned for your beliefs that I disagree with, with your gender playing no part in the argument. We're perfectly fine with a woman being in charge, but that particular woman, no. The argument over wages has numerous layers to it, but there hasn't been anyone trying to say that women are just worse at anything, with at most the argument being that employers have to take into account the chance of the woman getting pregnant, since this basically puts in a point where she could be down for anywhere from four months, to never returning to work. While I understand the reasoning, it really shouldn't be that big a factor in pay.

Heck, even with the whole gay marriage thing, it's just that one component for the vast overwhelming majority of detractors. Myself, I don't see the issue, since it isn't even marriage sanctioned by God that we're talking about, but contractual marriage sanctioned by the state. No sane person is proposing that they aren't allowed to act as they wish, it's just this one point of argument, and let's be honest, they're losing that fight anyway. Now, with most of the country being some variety of Christian, this means that, guess what? The majority of Christians are backing up the equal rights of gays, myself included.

So, in short, your entire argument, from beginning to end, has absolutely no ground to stand on, and you've made yourself look like an idiot yet again.

[Abbey Marie]

At least on this holiest day of the Christian calendar, please ignore the Christian-phobic. You are feeding into his agenda.

[Perianne]

And Satan said "I demand equal rights".

And God said "Go ahead. Make my day".

On this most holy Christian day, I thank God for all the blessings He has given to me. And they are innumerable. I thank God for giving his son so that we might be saved.

[tailfins]

At least on this holiest day of the Christian calendar, please ignore the Christian-phobic. You are feeding into his agenda.

I will just quote scripture and further glorify God.


Galatians 6:7

<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version.</small>


Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.




Hosea 8:7<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version.</small>


For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.

[avatar4321]

How is exalting oneself over everyone seeking equality? Where do you get this nonsense?

Considering accepting the gospel makes us joint heirs with Christ and we inherit all God has even to the point where Jesus said we are called gods, how can you say we are unequal in the kingdom?

[Jeff]

At least on this holiest day of the Christian calendar, please ignore the Christian-phobic. You are feeding into his agenda.

I am afraid this is all part of the big plan Abbey :(

By the way, I have to spread them to add but I feel this post was well deserving.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is someone convicted of premeditated homicide right to demand an equal place in society with someone who has broken no laws?

What are you talking about? Not heaven as no one killed anyone there.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

"Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?"

equal rights? well.

If he were somehow equal to the creator of every angel and the universe then he might have a "right".
Until then, yes he was wrong. Blindingly arrogantly wrong.
So the rest of your questions/assertions don't follow simply for that fact alone.


But concerning the other question.
every human being is equal in our humanity,
And we, as Satan and than angels, are under God's command.
Some of God's commands outline who should and should not be married, who should and should not have sex even.

Could it be that those who want to do otherwise are like Satan in thinking they know better than God who created them?

Why would God create gays just to make them miserable for having to deny their God given natures?

As to the equality of women, does, he shall rule over you, men to rule over women as stated by God, sound like equality to you?

If so, show how the ruled is equal to the ruler.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Um, dude, Satan wasn't demanding equal rights, he was trying to launch a military coup to put himself in charge, so yeah, equal in that he gets to be king and rule over everyone else. Yeah, he got cast out for that, that's incredibly reasonable. If you live in my house, you are under my rules, and "Do not lead an armed insurrection against me" is a pretty huge violation of those rules, and I'm kicking your dumb ass out, along with the idiots that went along with it.

Christians aren't reluctant to give women equality. Look at every argument against Hilary as president on this site. Nothing to do with her sex, and all to do with her political stance. That's as equal as you really get, being lampooned for your beliefs that I disagree with, with your gender playing no part in the argument. We're perfectly fine with a woman being in charge, but that particular woman, no. The argument over wages has numerous layers to it, but there hasn't been anyone trying to say that women are just worse at anything, with at most the argument being that employers have to take into account the chance of the woman getting pregnant, since this basically puts in a point where she could be down for anywhere from four months, to never returning to work. While I understand the reasoning, it really shouldn't be that big a factor in pay.

Heck, even with the whole gay marriage thing, it's just that one component for the vast overwhelming majority of detractors. Myself, I don't see the issue, since it isn't even marriage sanctioned by God that we're talking about, but contractual marriage sanctioned by the state. No sane person is proposing that they aren't allowed to act as they wish, it's just this one point of argument, and let's be honest, they're losing that fight anyway. Now, with most of the country being some variety of Christian, this means that, guess what? The majority of Christians are backing up the equal rights of gays, myself included.

So, in short, your entire argument, from beginning to end, has absolutely no ground to stand on, and you've made yourself look like an idiot yet again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

As to marriage and divorce, 60 odd % of Christians are divorced.

Why so soft on the no divorce commandment and so hard on gay marriage.

Does that not strike you as hypocritical?

Regards
DL

[BoogyMan]

It seems that Gnostic has blessed us with another one of his mass cross posted piles of mental excrement. (https://www.google.com/search?q=Was+Satan+wrong+to+demand+equal+rights+in +heaven%3F&oq=Was+Satan+wrong+to+demand+equal+rights+in+heave n%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.310j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8)

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

At least on this holiest day of the Christian calendar, please ignore the Christian-phobic. You are feeding into his agenda.

And your fear is showing.

You fear the truth.

You do not want to face your fantasy and go up.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

And Satan said "I demand equal rights".

And God said "Go ahead. Make my day".

On this most holy Christian day, I thank God for all the blessings He has given to me. And they are innumerable. I thank God for giving his son so that we might be saved.

After he condemned us for being the way he created us to be.

All you have to do is save yourself to him.

The American Dream.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

How is exalting oneself over everyone seeking equality?
?

Ask your God. That is what he does.

Does he believe in equality when telling women that they must kowtow to men?

I note that most here are men. How interesting.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?

Was God wrong when he created you, regardless of the schmuck he knew you would turn out to be? I find it absolutely amazing the amount of forgiveness and grace he has. He created you and gave you free will, and you're using it to mock him.

I don't think YOU will get equal rights. I think you will be denied entrance and then wish you had not been a flaming troll. And while you hop on the down elevator at the wonderful gates, I will be on the other side, peeking through, laughing at you, and might even toss a rock or 2 to see if my aim is still good and can maybe hit you in the face with one.

[revelarts]

1st of all you haven't acknowledged to my points.
you immediately jump to another question, but fine well just say you are wrong about Satan being equal. so that's OFF the table.

now to your new question about God's sovereignty.

Why would God create gays just to make them miserable for having to deny their God given natures?

Based on your question you can also ask why did God create kleptomaniacs or alcoholics, liars, or Hitler or carjackers, or corrupt police or sociopaths or those who desire sex with animals or small children?

God's final reasons why he created/allowed such actions or desires is not a question I'll attempt to answer.
But it does not mean that we legalize and celebrate Lies, Kleptomania, or sociopathy or any number of things that God has defined as immoral DL.

Your next question you ask about equality and roles God has set up.


As to the equality of women, does, he shall rule over you, men to rule over women as stated by God, sound like equality to you?
If so, show how the ruled is equal to the ruler.
Regards
DL

OK 1st of all you misquote the verse it doesn't say that men shall "rule over women" it's talking about husbands and wives it says
"...Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Let me ask you a few questions.
Do you have a job? do you have boss? are you equal your boss?
Do you have different roles? Are you LESS THAN your boss?

Under Mosaic law the priest had a certain role and they came from only one family. But hey were not considered more than, they just had a different role, but equal under the law and before each other as human beings.
and Under Mosaic law Judges, who were like governors, had certain roles. they could come from any tribe. They were not considered more than, they had a different role.
the jews themselves as a people have role that the gentiles do not. But they are finally equal to us gentiles in our standing before God and each other.


The fact that you don't LIKE the roles, doesn't mean they are wrong.
And it doesn't mean you can change the concept of human equality to mean everyone has the same job.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Was God wrong when he created you, regardless of the schmuck he knew you would turn out to be? I find it absolutely amazing the amount of forgiveness and grace he has. He created you and gave you free will, and you're using it to mock him.

I don't think YOU will get equal rights. I think you will be denied entrance and then wish you had not been a flaming troll. And while you hop on the down elevator at the wonderful gates, I will be on the other side, peeking through, laughing at you, and might even toss a rock or 2 to see if my aim is still good and can maybe hit you in the face with one.

Free will. How droll.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

1st of all you haven't acknowledged to my points.
you immediately jump to another question, but fine well just say you are wrong about Satan being equal. so that's OFF the table.

now to your new question about God's sovereignty.


Based on your question you can also ask why did God create kleptomaniacs or alcoholics, liars, or Hitler or carjackers, or corrupt police or sociopaths or those who desire sex with animals or small children?

God's final reasons why he created/allowed such actions or desires is not a question I'll attempt to answer.
But it does not mean that we legalize and celebrate Lies, Kleptomania, or sociopathy or any number of things that God has defined as immoral DL.

Your next question you ask about equality and roles God has set up.


OK 1st of all you misquote the verse it doesn't say that men shall "rule over women" it's talking about husbands and wives it says
"...Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Let me ask you a few questions.
Do you have a job? do you have boss? are you equal your boss?
Do you have different roles? Are you LESS THAN your boss?

Under Mosaic law the priest had a certain role and they came from only one family. But hey were not considered more than, they just had a different role, but equal under the law and before each other as human beings.
and Under Mosaic law Judges, who were like governors, had certain roles. they could come from any tribe. They were not considered more than, they had a different role.
the jews themselves as a people have role that the gentiles do not. But they are finally equal to us gentiles in our standing before God and each other.


The fact that you don't LIKE the roles, doesn't mean they are wrong.
And it doesn't mean you can change the concept of human equality to mean everyone has the same job.

You chastise me for not answering questions or debating then ignore my questions and refuse to answer.

Why did God put a gay nature in gays then expect them to try to go against their God give natures?

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Free will. How droll.

I hope you didn't spend much time on that long winded crap beyond this point, as this is all I read. Now shoo fly, don't bother me!

[revelarts]

You chastise me for not answering questions or debating then ignore my questions and refuse to answer.
Why did God put a gay nature in gays then expect them to try to go against their God give natures?
Regards
DL
I answered your question, you just didn't like my answer.
let me answer it again a slightly different way.

why did God create in most men a desire to have sex with more than one woman but tell us to stay faithful to only 1?
I cannot answer that question or your question DL.
But should we "celebrate" our promiscuous desires, or claim they are "right"? Or should they be followed to there conclusions.
Not all desires are to be allowed to have there way.

Human Appetites do not create moral standards DL.

Will you grant that God knows better than you or I what sexual desires we should allow ourselves to expressed and promote?

[avatar4321]

After he condemned us for being the way he created us to be.

All you have to do is save yourself to him.

The American Dream.

Regards
DL

No. We are held accountable for what we do.

[Gunny]

You chastise me for not answering questions or debating then ignore my questions and refuse to answer.

Why did God put a gay nature in gays then expect them to try to go against their God give natures?

Regards
DL

Free will, smurf. Let's go.

[aboutime]

Seems rather obvious how Gnostic is merely searching, and hoping for his EQUAL rights he has earned from satan...who demands Gnostic must endlessly preach his hatred to prevent others from using the word HEAVEN.

[Jeff]

Was God wrong when he created you, regardless of the schmuck he knew you would turn out to be? I find it absolutely amazing the amount of forgiveness and grace he has. He created you and gave you free will, and you're using it to mock him.

I don't think YOU will get equal rights. I think you will be denied entrance and then wish you had not been a flaming troll. And while you hop on the down elevator at the wonderful gates, I will be on the other side, peeking through, laughing at you, and might even toss a rock or 2 to see if my aim is still good and can maybe hit you in the face with one.

Jim this is how great our Lord is, even a person like this may find the error of his ways and be forgiven and then given eternal life, seems a waste to me but that is why our Lord is so great, he can forgive even the biggest of fools.

[DragonStryk72]

Free will. How droll.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created humanbeings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

Regards
DL

Seriously, man, this line of BS has been shot down in every thread it's reared it's head in, and you always try to shield yourself behind it, mainly cause you have no actual defense. I offer you as proof of free will, so either debunk your own existence, or move the fuck on. Seriously, we've had this talk, almost every thread, and it's your straw man. Free will has to exist for there to be debate, because without free will, there's no dissenting opinion, period. It's not difficult. In science, we call it a posit, because it's something we all agree is true, because otherwise there's just nothing we can build off of.

The problem is, everyone knows it's your straw man, and we're getting tired of repeating ourselves. You're a weak debater at best, and unlike Gabs, who'll just admit she's bad at it, you refuse to admit you suck. With every thread, you make your entire stance weaker, and more transparently terrible, because you have no true foundation to stand on. It's just another pseudo-intellectual merry-go-around, and the second that you can't come up with an argument, you'll be posting another thread that's really just the same moronic argument. Everything you post is essentially spam at this point.

And just so we can go over this again: Free will is a solid mechanism to make sure everything's running smoothly, believe it or not. micro-management is the worst form of management, because it is the least efficient model. Unless you're a farmer, you're not personal milking your own cow, pasteurizing the milk, churning your butter and grinding your own wheat for bread. Why not? Cause that would be horribly inefficient, right? Hell of a lot of maintenance doing all that, and that's just managing your life, alone. Even if I COULD manage every possible minutiae of the universe, why's on God's green Earth would I? It's like the least sensible decision I could possibly make. Far better to establish mechanisms, and use macro-management to cut down my own work load.

[DragonStryk72]

Ask your God. That is what he does.

Does he believe in equality when telling women that they must kowtow to men?

I note that most here are men. How interesting.

Regards
DL

Actually, he doesn't. This is why "Love, Honor, and cherish" are right in the standard wedding vows. You know, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, that whole run? He never says they have to kowtow, as you put it. Women ran the household, while men ran the finances. This state of affairs has changed a lot, and we made great strides.

Yes, you are supposed to honor your husband. But then, you're supposed to honor your wife as well. There was an agreement to the marriage that existed, and there have been plenty of strong women throughout history that I line up as proof. This was just weak.

The weakness of your argument is shown in every cherry pick you use, many times misquoting, or using someone else's horrible interpretation to make a point that still can't stand even if we cede you your "proof". And really, that last question? come on, that's just childish bait.

[DragonStryk72]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

As to marriage and divorce, 60 odd % of Christians are divorced.

Why so soft on the no divorce commandment and so hard on gay marriage.

Does that not strike you as hypocritical?

Regards
DL

Actually, that wasn't a Commandment, so no, no hypocrisy there. Divorce is considered a sin due to the oath you swear when you get married, not by direct commandment. And the divorces have several factors amongst them. However, the statistics states the 40% of marriages end in divorce. Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce, so they don't even count in the figure to begin with.

Some of it simply has to do with the fact that we've changed. Marriage is no less important, and I've yet to see a couple that gets divorced "just 'cause". Most go through counseling and do their level best to fix things before it gets to the point of divorce, and still others stick with the marriage if they have children together, at least until the kids are out of the house. Then, of course, we need to account for the marriages that were a sham to begin with, meaning that the entire intention was to get married for short period, then divorce, or to attempt to use the marriage for a specific end, such as trying to get alimony.

This of course, is all a smokescreen because you couldn't refute anything else I said, as usual.

[Gunny]

Actually, that wasn't a Commandment, so no, no hypocrisy there. Divorce is considered a sin due to the oath you swear when you get married, not by direct commandment. And the divorces have several factors amongst them. However, the statistics states the 40% of marriages end in divorce. Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce, so they don't even count in the figure to begin with.

Some of it simply has to do with the fact that we've changed. Marriage is no less important, and I've yet to see a couple that gets divorced "just 'cause". Most go through counseling and do their level best to fix things before it gets to the point of divorce, and still others stick with the marriage if they have children together, at least until the kids are out of the house. Then, of course, we need to account for the marriages that were a sham to begin with, meaning that the entire intention was to get married for short period, then divorce, or to attempt to use the marriage for a specific end, such as trying to get alimony.

This of course, is all a smokescreen because you couldn't refute anything else I said, as usual.

Marriage/Divorce are legal means the government uses to keep track of you and your money.

That's Man's law, Not God's.

[aboutime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

As to marriage and divorce, 60 odd % of Christians are divorced.

Why so soft on the no divorce commandment and so hard on gay marriage.

Does that not strike you as hypocritical?

Regards
DL


Another LAUGH-IN moment from Gnostic, the Caustic, Agnostic.

Please share with us which number of the Ten Commandments we all know...speaks of Divorce, Marriage, or Gays

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I answered your question, you just didn't like my answer.
let me answer it again a slightly different way.

why did God create in most men a desire to have sex with more than one woman but tell us to stay faithful to only 1?
I cannot answer that question or your question DL.

So you answered it but also say you cannot answer it. It sure is fun trying to communicate with you. At least you can put an argument of some kind together which is not what most here can do it seems.



But should we "celebrate" our promiscuous desires, or claim they are "right"? Or should they be followed to there conclusions.
Not all desires are to be allowed to have there way.

Human Appetites do not create moral standards DL.

Will you grant that God knows better than you or I what sexual desires we should allow ourselves to expressed and promote?





No. I will not grant that God knows anything of morality better than I as he has shown that his standards are inferior to mine as well as yours.



Are your standards telling you that it is moral to torture and kill innocent babies and children for any reason?



If so then follow your God as he somehow thinks that is ok to do.



Do you agree with him?



Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

No. We are held accountable for what we do.

Sure but you can only follow the nature God gave you and for him to punish you for being what he created is immoral.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Free will, smurf. Let's go.

Not an excuse. Read the post just above.

Refute it if you can. You cannot break the logic trail.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Actually, he doesn't. This is why "Love, Honor, and cherish" are right in the standard wedding vows. You know, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, that whole run? He never says they have to kowtow, as you put it. Women ran the household, while men ran the finances. This state of affairs has changed a lot, and we made great strides.

Yes, you are supposed to honor your husband. But then, you're supposed to honor your wife as well. There was an agreement to the marriage that existed, and there have been plenty of strong women throughout history that I line up as proof. This was just weak.

The weakness of your argument is shown in every cherry pick you use, many times misquoting, or using someone else's horrible interpretation to make a point that still can't stand even if we cede you your "proof". And really, that last question? come on, that's just childish bait.

Sure, cherry pick. Like you cherry pick this on to ignore.

Gen 3;16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Actually, that wasn't a Commandment, so no, no hypocrisy there. Divorce is considered a sin due to the oath you swear when you get married, not by direct commandment. And the divorces have several factors amongst them. However, the statistics states the 40% of marriages end in divorce. Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce, so they don't even count in the figure to begin with.

Some of it simply has to do with the fact that we've changed. Marriage is no less important, and I've yet to see a couple that gets divorced "just 'cause". Most go through counseling and do their level best to fix things before it gets to the point of divorce, and still others stick with the marriage if they have children together, at least until the kids are out of the house. Then, of course, we need to account for the marriages that were a sham to begin with, meaning that the entire intention was to get married for short period, then divorce, or to attempt to use the marriage for a specific end, such as trying to get alimony.

This of course, is all a smokescreen because you couldn't refute anything else I said, as usual.

" Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce".

Interesting. You have an opportunity to changer my thinking.

Please get chapter and verse where Jesus shows that women can divorce for the reasons you state.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Another LAUGH-IN moment from Gnostic, the Caustic, Agnostic.

Please share with us which number of the Ten Commandments we all know...speaks of Divorce, Marriage, or Gays

The only one I know of is the do not covet commandment that God himself broke when he coveted Joseph's wife Mary.

God sins quite often and cuckolding Joseph is just one example.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

No. I will not grant that God knows anything of morality better than I as he has shown that his standards are inferior to mine as well as yours.
Concerning sexaul relations? you know better than God? you can tell him don't include me in you ideas of superiority.



Are your standards telling you that it is moral to torture and kill innocent babies and children for any reason?

you've changed the subject again?
But again you've misquoted the Bible. There's no torture condoned for any one. and in war sadly babies are killed as well, In the Old testament a few limited cases.
Happen today.
But outside of war, we have ZERO killing of children allowed.

there's your answer
Since you've changed the subject can i ask you if you are pro-life?
since you say the killing of innocent children for any reason is wrong?

[aboutime]

We should now change the title of this thread to be........

Gnostic, the Caustic, Agnostic.

[Gunny]

We should now change the title of this thread to be........

Gnostic, the Caustic, Agnostic.

I was thinking more like Gnostic Unchristian alien.

[DragonStryk72]

" Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce".

Interesting. You have an opportunity to changer my thinking.

Please get chapter and verse where Jesus shows that women can divorce for the reasons you state.

Regards
DL

Sermon on the Mount. Marriage isn't carte blanche. Abusing you wife does not hold to any tenet of the vow you made (Love, Honor, Cherish), and thus, doing so violates the whole central point of marriage. You swore to GOD to Love, honor and cherish this person. Abusing them, cheating on them (Cheating being inherently dishonorable), or even just ignoring them violate your sworn word to God. In other words, doing such things can essentially nullifying the marriage.

As well, God did not "covet" Mary, as you put it, and I'll thank you to post the chapter and verse where it says that He does. By the way, that would have to involve sex, which is absolutely not stated in the Bible, which is why she is referred to as THE VIRGIN MARY. More specifically, God wasn't involved, an angel was, or did you skip that part of the chapter? Skimming doesn't really work with what you're trying to put out there.

You know, it's funny how you want chapter and verse, but you purposely dodge every subject, or purposely pervert the written word of the bible to mean what you want to mean, then, when you get called on it, either try and change subjects, or you run off to another thread.

[tailfins]

I was thinking more like Gnostic Unchristian alien.

After thinking of some other members here on DP, Gnostic Christian Bishop doesn't seem so bad by comparison. I do wonder what happened to him to be so bitter about Christianity.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Concerning sexaul relations? you know better than God? you can tell him don't include me in you ideas of superiority.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
you've changed the subject again?
But again you've misquoted the Bible. There's no torture condoned for any one. and in war sadly babies are killed as well, In the Old testament a few limited cases.
Happen today.
But outside of war, we have ZERO killing of children allowed.

there's your answer
Since you've changed the subject can i ask you if you are pro-life?
since you say the killing of innocent children for any reason is wrong?

God I shown to have tortured King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it.
God is also shown as drowning many babies and innocent children in the great flood. The first born of Egypt suffered death and they were definitely innocent of any wrong doing.

I say that those are all immoral acts.

If you cannot agree which you will not do here, then I have no use for one with such poor morals.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Sermon on the Mount. Marriage isn't carte blanche. Abusing you wife does not hold to any tenet of the vow you made (Love, Honor, Cherish), and thus, doing so violates the whole central point of marriage. You swore to GOD to Love, honor and cherish this person. Abusing them, cheating on them (Cheating being inherently dishonorable), or even just ignoring them violate your sworn word to God. In other words, doing such things can essentially nullifying the marriage.

As well, God did not "covet" Mary, as you put it, and I'll thank you to post the chapter and verse where it says that He does. By the way, that would have to involve sex, which is absolutely not stated in the Bible, which is why she is referred to as THE VIRGIN MARY. More specifically, God wasn't involved, an angel was, or did you skip that part of the chapter? Skimming doesn't really work with what you're trying to put out there.

You know, it's funny how you want chapter and verse, but you purposely dodge every subject, or purposely pervert the written word of the bible to mean what you want to mean, then, when you get called on it, either try and change subjects, or you run off to another thread.

I deal with the ignorance of those in this place as well as I can.

I do not suffer fools well and never have.

But I do thank you for your speculation of the divorce laws and non-existing annulment rules.

You last chapter is a great way to apologise for not providing the chapter and verse for the speculations you gave.

It shows the ignorance of most here. Perhaps you all go to the same church.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

After thinking of some other members here on DP, Gnostic Christian Bishop doesn't seem so bad by comparison. I do wonder what happened to him to be so bitter about Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D left)The Dark Ages of thinking has yet to leave this particular site.

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D left)The Dark Ages of thinking has yet to leave this particular site.

Regards
DL

While it would be encouraging to see you overcome your anger about Christianity, I give you credit for not participating in the occult.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

While it would be encouraging to see you overcome your anger about Christianity, I give you credit for not participating in the occult.

It is not anger although I have not been as patient as I could be.

It is disgust at the morality that Christians have adopted.

I was a delinquent and thief when young and think I know right from wrong

The wrong I see in Christianity is heartbreaking. I am not surprised when none here want to discuss anything from a moral POV.

You have all forgotten that religion, while being there to appease your hivish instincts and need of fellowship, is also supposed to be a seeking for God.

It is not just to do as most here have done and just become idol worshipers of your Godinabook.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

God I shown to have tortured King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it.
God is also shown as drowning many babies and innocent children in the great flood. The first born of Egypt suffered death and they were definitely innocent of any wrong doing. I say that those are all immoral acts.
If you cannot agree which you will not do here, then I have no use for one with such poor morals.

Regards
DL
I'll reply but i asked you 1st, are you Prolife DL?
All this high moral concern over babies, over innocent children does it mean you are pro-life?

answer the question please.

[aboutime]

I'll reply but i asked you 1st, are you Prolife DL?
All this high moral concern over babies, over innocent children does it mean you are pro-life?

answer the question please.



Rev. We all know your question to Gnostic won't work. Like Satan, Gnostic can never approve of, or be in favor of LIFE. Which is why Gnostic must come here to share his Misery of Nothingness, where there is no LIFE.

[DragonStryk72]

Rev. We all know your question to Gnostic won't work. Like Satan, Gnostic can never approve of, or be in favor of LIFE. Which is why Gnostic must come here to share his Misery of Nothingness, where there is no LIFE.

What gets me is he always falls back to points he made in onther threads that were already defeated, such as the King david "torture". There was no torture, he got sick, his child died of illness. with the average life expectancy being roughly 30, that's not exactly difficult to come by.

The gist of the argument goes: Let's say I tell you that if you go to rob a bank, you'll be shot by the cops. You disregard the warning, and go rob the bank, wherein you are shot by cops. Did I make the cops shoot you? No, I didn't. I gave you a listing of what happens when you do that, and it happened. He just doesn't have any actual debate skills, so he falls back on these tricks, such as the avoidance of Rev's question.

All he can do is throw around empty conjecture after empty conjecture, until he realizes he's lost, then he just starts up a new one elsewhere. He's just thread-spamming.

[Gunny]

I deal with the ignorance of those in this place as well as I can.

I do not suffer fools well and never have.

But I do thank you for your speculation of the divorce laws and non-existing annulment rules.

You last chapter is a great way to apologise for not providing the chapter and verse for the speculations you gave.

It shows the ignorance of most here. Perhaps you all go to the same church.

Regards
DL

Yeah? Try dealing with your own ignorance and playing the fool before you judge others.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I'll reply but i asked you 1st, are you Prolife DL?
All this high moral concern over babies, over innocent children does it mean you are pro-life?

answer the question please.



Babies and children are not zygotes or embryos so your God sin is of a higher caliber and more vile than those who abort.

That aside.

I believe that life starts at conception and hate to see any potential human die.

At the same time, if society is not going to do better for women who find they want abortions --- or the children that they might carry to term for us, --- then I cannot see any moral reason for interfering in a woman’s freedom of choice.

In my Catholic home town, many tongues would wag whenever a girl had an abortion but few parents and little from the Catholic community was there to support these girls or their children.

If society is not going to put it’s money where it’s mouth is then we as a society do not have a right to impose our will on women who chose to abort.


Regards
DL

[aboutime]

Babies and children are not zygotes or embryos so your God sin is of a higher caliber and more vile than those who abort.

That aside.

I believe that life starts at conception and hate to see any potential human die.

At the same time, if society is not going to do better for women who find they want abortions --- or the children that they might carry to term for us, --- then I cannot see any moral reason for interfering in a woman’s freedom of choice.

In my Catholic home town, many tongues would wag whenever a girl had an abortion but few parents and little from the Catholic community was there to support these girls or their children.

If society is not going to put it’s money where it’s mouth is then we as a society do not have a right to impose our will on women who chose to abort.


Regards
DL




So, you are telling us. Your parents (if you had any who knew you) intentionally aborted you, and caused you to come here to brag about working in Satan's workshop?

[revelarts]

Babies and children are not zygotes or embryos so your God sin is of a higher caliber and more vile than those who abort.
That aside.
I believe that life starts at conception and hate to see any potential human die.
At the same time, if society is not going to do better for women who find they want abortions --- or the children that they might carry to term for us, --- then I cannot see any moral reason for interfering in a woman’s freedom of choice.
In my Catholic home town, many tongues would wag whenever a girl had an abortion but few parents and little from the Catholic community was there to support these girls or their children.
If society is not going to put it’s money where it’s mouth is then we as a society do not have a right to impose our will on women who chose to abort.
Regards
DL


So it IS OK -moral- to kill babies if the Catholics in your town and YOU refuse to care the women and children.

And you're willing morally to allow woman to kill their children, if they the local catholics and YOU don't put up the money to care for them.
But God of course is held to another standard. while you can somehow see your way past this issue because MONEY trumps life in this case. You cannot be open at all to any reasons that the God who gave you moral drives, may allow some death over time.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So it IS OK -moral- to kill babies if the Catholics in your town and YOU refuse to care the women and children.

And you're willing morally to allow woman to kill their children, if they the local catholics and YOU don't put up the money to care for them.
But God of course is held to another standard. while you can somehow see your way past this issue because MONEY trumps life in this case. You cannot be open at all to any reasons that the God who gave you moral drives, may allow some death over time.

I did not speak of women killing children at all. I do not know of such Nor did I indicate I would think such a crime to be moral.

Thanks for your usual deceit, Christian.

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

I did not speak of women killing children at all. I do not know of such Nor did I indicate I would think such a crime to be moral.

Thanks for your usual deceit, Christian Earthling. :martian:

Regards
DL

Fixed that for ya'.

[aboutime]

I did not speak of women killing children at all. I do not know of such Nor did I indicate I would think such a crime to be moral.

Thanks for your usual deceit, Christian.

Regards
DL


Gnostic. Found that photo of where you live in your hatred as an ISIS member...pretending to be a human.http://icansayit.com/images/garbagecan.jpg

[BoogyMan]

" Now, a number of these involve either abuse or infidelity, both of which were okayed by Christ as a reason for divorce".

Interesting. You have an opportunity to changer my thinking.

Please get chapter and verse where Jesus shows that women can divorce for the reasons you state.

Regards
DL

Yet again we see Forrest Derp return to prove he has no knowledge of the Bible he is so childishly intent upon discrediting and great examples of the kind of argumentation that a frontal lobe-less loon is capable of generating. The NT only lists a single cause for divorce. Do you know which one, Derp?

[Abbey Marie]

Babies and children are not zygotes or embryos so your God sin is of a higher caliber and more vile than those who abort.

That aside.

I believe that life starts at conception and hate to see any potential human die.

At the same time, if society is not going to do better for women who find they want abortions --- or the children that they might carry to term for us, --- then I cannot see any moral reason for interfering in a woman’s freedom of choice.

In my Catholic home town, many tongues would wag whenever a girl had an abortion but few parents and little from the Catholic community was there to support these girls or their children.

If society is not going to put it’s money where it’s mouth is then we as a society do not have a right to impose our will on women who chose to abort.


Regards
DL


If you can't do better for these babies, kill them. Oh the anti-logic.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Yet again we see Forrest Derp return to prove he has no knowledge of the Bible he is so childishly intent upon discrediting and great examples of the kind of argumentation that a frontal lobe-less loon is capable of generating. The NT only lists a single cause for divorce. Do you know which one, Derp?

You are correct if my memory serves but Jesus and God did not agree with Moses.

So is there any justifiable reason for divorce as far as our judge Jesus is concerned?

The Bible seems to say no, if I read Jesus correctly.


I find both Moses' policy and Jesus' policy to be immoral as neither allows an abused person, male or female, the right divorce and to seek a loving mate.

Those policies are quite anti-love and immoral.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If you can't do better for these babies, kill them. Oh the anti-logic.

How much of a tax increase would you allow to raise the funds to do a good job of caring for the millions of children under discussion here?

An who are you to impose that tax on those who do not want to or cannot pay it?

You will know that in the U.S., most aborted potential people are from a Christian womb.
Those are your people my friend.

Christian then are the greatest number of offenders and obviously would not support a tax hike as they are already saying that they do not want to support their daughters or their bastard children.

Unfortunately.

To change the U.S. policy, you would have to change Christian attitudes. Good luck with that.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If you can't do better for these babies, kill them. Oh the anti-logic.

What is anti-logic is believing in talking serpents and a water walking God who wiil condemn you just to turn around and die for you.

Anti-logic and downright stupid as well as immoral.

Regards
DL

[Gunny]

Oh look ... somebody's mommy let him on the computer last night. :laugh: