Is creating false guilt for profit by religions a good moral tenet?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is creating false guilt for profit by religions a good moral tenet?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc)

One of the lies for profit by the Churches seems to be the invention of hell to instill fear and loosen the purse strings and increase the indulgences people pay to save their souls, which were never condemned in the first place.

Another example of this for profit lying by Christianity would be Original Sin. This was something unknown to the Jews who have a different interpretation of their myths. To them, Eden was we were elevated, not where we fell.

Is creating false guilt for profit a good moral tenet and should a religion that does so be followed?


Or would God forbid such a sin and curse those religions to hell?

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

Any preacher I ever listened to says there's no reason for guilt after repentance.

Psalm 103:12 , KJV


As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

[tailfins]

Advice for others replying to GCB: Quote scripture for all the board to see. Here's why:

Isaiah 55:11<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version.</small>


So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[revelarts]

Is creating false guilt for profit by religions a good moral tenet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc)
One of the lies for profit by the Churches seems to be the invention of hell to instill fear and loosen the purse strings and increase the indulgences people pay to save their souls, which were never condemned in the first place.
Another example of this for profit lying by Christianity would be Original Sin. This was something unknown to the Jews who have a different interpretation of their myths. To them, Eden was we were elevated, not where we fell.
Is creating false guilt for profit a good moral tenet and should a religion that does so be followed?
Or would God forbid such a sin and curse those religions to hell?
Regards DL


DL a couple of things.

1st your youtube clip doesn't say anything about " ...loosen(ing) the purse strings and increase the indulgences people pay to save their souls..." or "...creating false guilt for profit..".

Are you just using what the unbeliever Spong said as springboard to those questions?
Little to None of what he said was true. so it's a faulty starting place. I'd rather spend time there than to go on to your 2ndary questions.
Since you 1st make a false assertion then base 1/2 true questions on those false ideas and ask (smugly?) for a defense.

you start with this
"...the invention of hell..."

Look DL Jesus spoke of Hell more than anyone else in scripture. And you even quote Jesus when you defend your other points, do you magically want to deny He said anything about a real hell? You can't have it both ways DL.

But you don't explain or defend your assertion about hell, neither does Spong, you just assert it and go on to point out a half/true fact. that some parts of the the church did and do used the concept of Hell as a tool to suck money from people. this is sadly true. And God, and Moses, and the prophets and Jesus and the Apostle Paul and Peter all condemn the practice. Jesus went so far as to making whips and run the money changers out of the temple. Peter prayed a curse on man who he recognized only wanted God's power to use for money. Paul mentioned as he was leaving one place where he ministered. Acts 20 33"I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions."


Concerning original Sin, well many Jews do take some of the line that you state. But I think if we were to compare points of doctrine
with Orthodox Jews and Conservative Christians and Gnostics there'd be MORE points of agreement between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Christians.

And you are conveniently forgetting that PAUL was a 1st century Jewish Rabbi, a Pharisee no less. He's the one who 1st presented the concept. And that many many other Jewish rabbis were among the 1st converts to Christianity, that in fact the entirety of christianity was Jewish for nearly one year or more.
But It's generally weird that your 1st 1st problem with the concept is that it's not Jewish enough? When you don't like or believe Law the Moses anyway.

and finally you say this
"Or would God forbid such a sin and curse those religions to hell?"
So that's a joke right? you say hell is not real, then you say the religions who use it for profit should go there. ha he Ok yeah.
shouldn't you be more forgiving or something? maybe forgiveness is something invented by the church to get money too.

But DL is any of what you believe invented by "the church" or is it just invented by some random guys in general?
Or are you just inventing it as you go along?

it's fine to try to condemn details of others faiths (if you had more than assertions to back it up that is) but what do you and Spong base your ideas on? He claims to point the way to God, and away from sin even the concept of it, and to a fuller humanity. who INVENTED what he's talking about DL? Spong doesn't look like he's hurting for $ btw. written a few books selling millions of copies. telling people they don't have to worry about hell or sin or what you bleieve much. the religion biz works both ways it seems.

[avatar4321]

When you recognize the fallen nature of man and what Christ has done for you, you're guilt isn't false. A true understanding of God, justice, and mercy leads to godly sorrow, which brings repentance.

Exercise faith in Christ unto repentance of your sins and be baptized. And you will receive the gift of the holy ghost.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Any preacher I ever listened to says there's no reason for guilt after repentance.

Psalm 103:12 , KJV

I agree but they would have to rescind their lies and they do not do so, so they have not repented.

Regard
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

DL a couple of things.

1st your youtube clip doesn't say anything about " ...loosen(ing) the purse strings and increase the indulgences people pay to save their souls..." or "...creating false guilt for profit..".

Are you just using what the unbeliever Spong said as springboard to those questions?
Little to None of what he said was true. so it's a faulty starting place. I'd rather spend time there than to go on to your 2ndary questions.
Since you 1st make a false assertion then base 1/2 true questions on those false ideas and ask (smugly?) for a defense.

you start with this
"...the invention of hell..."

Look DL Jesus spoke of Hell more than anyone else in scripture. And you even quote Jesus when you defend your other points, do you magically want to deny He said anything about a real hell? You can't have it both ways DL.

But you don't explain or defend your assertion about hell, neither does Spong, you just assert it and go on to point out a half/true fact. that some parts of the the church did and do used the concept of Hell as a tool to suck money from people. this is sadly true. And God, and Moses, and the prophets and Jesus and the Apostle Paul and Peter all condemn the practice. Jesus went so far as to making whips and run the money changers out of the temple. Peter prayed a curse on man who he recognized only wanted God's power to use for money. Paul mentioned as he was leaving one place where he ministered. Acts 20 33"I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions."


Concerning original Sin, well many Jews do take some of the line that you state. But I think if we were to compare points of doctrine
with Orthodox Jews and Conservative Christians and Gnostics there'd be MORE points of agreement between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Christians.

And you are conveniently forgetting that PAUL was a 1st century Jewish Rabbi, a Pharisee no less. He's the one who 1st presented the concept. And that many many other Jewish rabbis were among the 1st converts to Christianity, that in fact the entirety of christianity was Jewish for nearly one year or more.
But It's generally weird that your 1st 1st problem with the concept is that it's not Jewish enough? When you don't like or believe Law the Moses anyway.

and finally you say this
"Or would God forbid such a sin and curse those religions to hell?"
So that's a joke right? you say hell is not real, then you say the religions who use it for profit should go there. ha he Ok yeah.
shouldn't you be more forgiving or something? maybe forgiveness is something invented by the church to get money too.

But DL is any of what you believe invented by "the church" or is it just invented by some random guys in general?
Or are you just inventing it as you go along?

it's fine to try to condemn details of others faiths (if you had more than assertions to back it up that is) but what do you and Spong base your ideas on? He claims to point the way to God, and away from sin even the concept of it, and to a fuller humanity. who INVENTED what he's talking about DL? Spong doesn't look like he's hurting for $ btw. written a few books selling millions of copies. telling people they don't have to worry about hell or sin or what you bleieve much. the religion biz works both ways it seems.

(if you had more than assertions to back it up that is)

I could say that of your whole bible.


I find it interesting that you would say what you did about a Bishop.

Nice disrespect for one of your own.


The concept of Satan and hell is way older than Christianity and is one of their plagiarized concepts. They did not get it from the Jewish myths, their roots, and so we can see that it is a later invention as described by Bishop Spong. And you are correct, he did not put the financial reason but I do as it is quite clear that that is why it was invented.

Neither of us can prove it one way or the other so there is no point in beating a dead horse.

As for original sin. That is a completely immoral notion so I object to it, not only because the Jews did not see Eden as our fall and have no concept of Original Sin, but also because it is biblically shown to be immoral.

Deuteronomy 24:16(ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20(ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Do you have an argument showing the fairness of God or man claiming your debts from your children, passing it down, or jailing them for your mistakes?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

When you recognize the fallen nature of man and what Christ has done for you, you're guilt isn't false. A true understanding of God, justice, and mercy leads to godly sorrow, which brings repentance.

Exercise faith in Christ unto repentance of your sins and be baptized. And you will receive the gift of the holy ghost.


God’s first example of justice was to decide to have Jesus sacrificed. That is God decided that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty to appease his own wrath and reverse his own condemnation of man so I would say that any who look to God for justice after that unjust start do not know justice at all.

God is also shown to torture and kill babies quite often so that is another reason to reject your view of a just and good God.

If you can justify the torture and killing of innocent children I will be happy to read your apology.

If man is fallen at all, I take it you are referring to Eden. Tell me, if that myth is true to you, what in hell was God thinking in putting Satan right there beside Eve? When one put a fox in the henhouse, one would have to be really stupid to think the fox will not take a hen or two. No God was testing B S. please.

God would not test those who are too stupid to even know they are naked especially with a Satan using God’s own deceiving power against a woman who could not possibly rest Gods own power used against her.

As to your last, I have already gained my Christ mind.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


I have claimed apotheosis. Do you?


Regards
DL

[avatar4321]

You are a god?

Color me skeptical. You don't even comprehend the atonement.

Besides, you don't claim divinity. Those who exalt themselves shall be brought low. Those who humble themselves shall be exalted.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You are a god?

Color me skeptical. You don't even comprehend the atonement.

Besides, you don't claim divinity. Those who exalt themselves shall be brought low. Those who humble themselves shall be exalted.

If anyone needs to atone it is your baby torturing and murdering God.

Why do you adore a God who does such immoral things?

Regards
DL

[avatar4321]

If you're a god, you wouldn't need me to tell you.

You would also know exactly why you are wrong.

Stop lying to yourself. Stop lying about the Almighty and He will heal you.

Do you even comprehend what murder is?

Does a personal trainer torture you when you when he works to keep you healthy?

[revelarts]

(if you had more than assertions to back it up that is)
I could say that of your whole bible.

No not really. not if you look at ALL the other history with an honest mind.
There's more than enough to back it up.



I find it interesting that you would say what you did about a Bishop.
Nice disrespect for one of your own.
Spong is an unbeliever, that's not slam it's a statement of fact.
He doesn't believe the Bible presents true history or spiritual facts, He doesn't believe in sin, he doesn't believe in Hell, He doesn't believe in the atonement. he doesn't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, doesn't believe that Jesus roses from the dead.
he's an unbeliever.
just because he has a collar on and pastors a church doesn't make him a christian anymore than putting shoes in the oven makes them biscuits.



The concept of Satan and hell is way older than Christianity and is one of their plagiarized concepts. They did not get it from the Jewish myths, their roots, ...

Wrong, Job is said to be one of the oldest if not the oldest Hebrew text and Satan is there. page one.



As for original sin. That is a completely immoral notion so I object to it, not only because the Jews did not see Eden as our fall and have no concept of Original Sin, but also because it is biblically shown to be immoral.
Deuteronomy 24:16(ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:20(ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
Do you have an argument showing the fairness of God or man claiming your debts from your children, passing it down, or jailing them for your mistakes?
Regards
DL

You've misunderstood original sin.
No one is Judged for original sin we are judge for our own sins.
the teaching of original sin shows us where our tendency to sin comes from and gives the pattern of how it's to be cured.
One man started the problem one man SOLVES IT.

you cry it's immoral, sorry but you've blinded your self to the how bad the problem is.
God's provides a solution for a problem that we have no power fix.
It's Grace.
You act as if people can do good enough to clear any sins on there own somehow. (or are you denying sins all together)
you ask for moral justice, when you can't even not lie for a week. what good deed will make up for your recent lies or recent unkindnesses.
Doing good is what we are SUPPOSE to do. it doesn't create points to wipe away the adulterous affair, or the hit and run or the cheating on the test.
We don't need moral justice we need grace and a savior to forgive all and wipe our sins clean.

But if you want to stand before God and tell him how he should have done it the right way DL, you'll have your chance.

[Gunny]

Is creating false guilt for profit by religions a good moral tenet?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc)

One of the lies for profit by the Churches seems to be the invention of hell to instill fear and loosen the purse strings and increase the indulgences people pay to save their souls, which were never condemned in the first place.

Another example of this for profit lying by Christianity would be Original Sin. This was something unknown to the Jews who have a different interpretation of their myths. To them, Eden was we were elevated, not where we fell.

Is creating false guilt for profit a good moral tenet and should a religion that does so be followed?


Or would God forbid such a sin and curse those religions to hell?

Regards
DL



Got tired of getting your ass whipped in the other thread?

The belief isn't false, but Man wrote the Bible.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If you're a god, you wouldn't need me to tell you.

You would also know exactly why you are wrong.

Stop lying to yourself. Stop lying about the Almighty and He will heal you.

Do you even comprehend what murder is?

Does a personal trainer torture you when you when he works to keep you healthy?

So you cannot even tell me why you follow a God who tortures and kills babies.

Oh well.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

No not really. not if you look at ALL the other history with an honest mind.
There's more than enough to back it up.


Spong is an unbeliever, that's not slam it's a statement of fact.
He doesn't believe the Bible presents true history or spiritual facts, He doesn't believe in sin, he doesn't believe in Hell, He doesn't believe in the atonement. he doesn't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, doesn't believe that Jesus roses from the dead.
he's an unbeliever.
just because he has a collar on and pastors a church doesn't make him a christian anymore than putting shoes in the oven makes them biscuits.


Wrong, Job is said to be one of the oldest if not the oldest Hebrew text and Satan is there. page one.



You've misunderstood original sin.
No one is Judged for original sin we are judge for our own sins.
the teaching of original sin shows us where our tendency to sin comes from and gives the pattern of how it's to be cured.
One man started the problem one man SOLVES IT.

you cry it's immoral, sorry but you've blinded your self to the how bad the problem is.
God's provides a solution for a problem that we have no power fix.
It's Grace.
You act as if people can do good enough to clear any sins on there own somehow. (or are you denying sins all together)
you ask for moral justice, when you can't even not lie for a week. what good deed will make up for your recent lies or recent unkindnesses.
Doing good is what we are SUPPOSE to do. it doesn't create points to wipe away the adulterous affair, or the hit and run or the cheating on the test.
We don't need moral justice we need grace and a savior to forgive all and wipe our sins clean.

But if you want to stand before God and tell him how he should have done it the right way DL, you'll have your chance.

"Wrong, Job is said to be one of the oldest if not the oldest Hebrew text and Satan is there. page one."


What are your thoughts of Job 2;3 3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'
This has God complaining of Satan moving him to destroy without cause.
Since God did allow the destruction of life in this narrative, not job of course, then God is admitting to being evil and sinning as Satan moved him to do.

Do you think that God was justified in allowing and encouraging Satan to kill?

Is the Don who orders a killing as culpable as the henchman he sends to kill?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Got tired of getting your ass whipped in the other thread?

The belief isn't false, but Man wrote the Bible.

Thanks for ignoring the questions.

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

Thanks for ignoring the questions.

Regards
DL

You're quite welcome.

[revelarts]

"Wrong, Job is said to be one of the oldest if not the oldest Hebrew text and Satan is there. page one."
What are your thoughts of Job 2;3 3 And the LORD said unto Satan:...

So you acknowledge that Satan isn't a new testament or Pagan import but is part of the OLDEST Hebrew text.
OK great.
Now to your NEW question switching up again rather than staying on one point.
---same as the old question--- "why didn't God do it like I think he should have?" (not a real quote btw just representative of DL's typical questions.)



What are your thoughts of Job 2;3 3 And the LORD said unto Satan:...
'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'
This has God complaining of Satan moving him to destroy without cause.
Since God did allow the destruction of life in this narrative, not job of course, then God is admitting to being evil and sinning as Satan moved him to do.
Do you think that God was justified in allowing and encouraging Satan to kill?
Is the Don who orders a killing as culpable as the henchman he sends to kill?


Read the last chapters of Job for your answers DL.
God is Not a man. He takes nothing that he can't restore.
But if you want to question His acts here or elsewhere you'll have your chance. good luck with that.

[tailfins]

But if you want to question His acts here or elsewhere you'll have your chance. good luck with that.


There’s a great day coming, a great day coming;There’s a great day coming by and by,
When the saints and the sinners shall be parted right and left,
Are you ready for that day to come?
Refrain
Are you ready? Are you ready?
Are you ready for the judgment day?
Are you ready? Are you ready?
For the judgment day?
There’s a bright day coming, a bright day coming;
There’s a bright day coming by and by.
But its brightness shall only come to them that love the Lord.
Are you ready for that day to come?
Refrain
There’s a sad day coming, a sad day coming;
There’s a sad day coming by and by,
When the sinner shall hear his doom: “Depart, I know you not!”

Are you ready for that day to come?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaH30dZ0gg