`.....More than 40,000 rally for Navy chaplain accused of being anti-gay`

[LongTermGuy]

`.....The bottom line is that if you do not want to be counseled by a Christian chaplain then don't go. Chaplains have a right to maintain their beliefs in performing their jobs.`

`Thousands of Americans, including former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and famed evangelist Franklin Graham, have come to the defense of a chaplain who could be thrown out of the Navy because of his Christian faith.
Lt. Cmdr. Wes Modder has been accused of failing to show “tolerance and respect” in private counseling sessions regarding issues pertaining to faith, marriage and sexuality – specifically homosexuality.`

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...cmp=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/12/more-than-40000-rally-for-navy-chaplain-accused-being-anti-gay/?intcmp=latestnews)

******************************************
`Mike Huckabee, a potential candidate for the White House in 2016, wonders if it is “becoming illegal to be a Christian” in the military.`


`Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, defended Modder in a Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/FranklinGraham?fref=nf).`
“It’s a sad day in America when military chaplains have to choose between being true to their faith and keeping their jobs,” he wrote. “But this is what’s happening at every level under the Obama administration.”

[aboutime]

LongTerm. As many of WE veterans who have been watching the deterioration, and destruction of our military since Obama took office know....this foolishness from the Pentagon's Kiss-ass gang of Flag officers...all of whom are afraid if they Don't Follow Obama's commands...he will call them racists, and fire them.

I wonder if Obama would tell the Muslim members of the military, and those Muslim Brotherhood staff members in the White House...they are forbidden from speaking about ALLAH???

The destruction of our Military is not a joke. And everyone connected to Obama, who are his SHEEP, who fear being labeled as trouble-makers...are applauding the FIRING of Military CHAPLAINS.

Just watch.

[Noir]

"Modder is also accused of:
* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.
* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”
* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a great counsellor...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

"Modder is also accused of:
* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.
* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”
* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a great counsellor...

Sounds like a true Christian. Does that bother you?
Do you think the U.S. military is treating its muslim soldiers or their Islamic advisers this way?
Islam teaches that gays are to be executed.....and sharia nations do exactly that!

Where is your outrage on that?-Tyr

[Noir]

Sounds like a true Christian. Does that bother you? Do you think the U.S. military is treating its muslim soldiers or their Islamic advisers this way? Islam teaches that gays are to be executed.....and sharia nations do exactly that! Where is your outrage on that?-Tyr

"True christian" I thought the whole 'judging people' lark was meant to be left to the 'true christians' god, no?

They should be treating all advisors the same, regardless of their religion.

[aboutime]

"Modder is also accused of:
* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.
* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”
* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a great counsellor...


Noir. So, why haven't you also told us WHY you do not enjoy being told the TRUTH?

In that man's eyes, and in his heart. He has insulted, disturbed, and offended people just like you

who always claim your own HIGH ROAD, whenever you are confronted with TRUTH.

[Noir]

Noir. So, why haven't you also told us WHY you do not enjoy being told the TRUTH? In that man's eyes, and in his heart. He has insulted, disturbed, and offended people just like you who always claim your own HIGH ROAD, whenever you are confronted with TRUTH.

"people just like you who always claim your own HIGH ROAD" unlike to the guy in the OP who didn't take his own HIGH ROAD, yeah?

"The truth" in these instances is totally personal and subjective, don't pretend otherwise.

[aboutime]

"people just like you who always claim your own HIGH ROAD" unlike to the guy in the OP who didn't take his own HIGH ROAD, yeah?

"The truth" in these instances is totally personal and subjective, don't pretend otherwise.

Never claimed any High Road. And, just as before. You never bothered to answer any questions. The truth really does hurt you. You didn't even try to dispute what he said. The TRUTH never changes.

[gabosaurus]

Dude sounds like a disgrace to his uniform. Counselors should help people with their problems, not create more of them.
Modder should quit the military and go to work for Fox News.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/03/10/chaplain-fired/24699275/


Commanders felt that allowing vulnerable sailors to be counseled by Modder is "a recipe for tragedy," according to the letter.

The issue arose after multiple sailors filed equal opportunity complaints about Modder with the command, alleging discrimination.
When confronted with the complaints, Modder told his command that "he will not follow Navy policy if it conflicts with his faith," according to the letter.

[LongTermGuy]

Dude sounds like a disgrace to his uniform. Counselors should help people with their problems, not create more of them.
Modder should quit the military and go to work for Fox News.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/03/10/chaplain-fired/24699275/



....at least Fox News ( the most watched by Americans) will tell the truth....and the guy would get even more support...

Liberalism is a cancer of deceit...twist...and lies...which is hurting America....*Thank God for Fox News ....

[gabosaurus]

If you are in any branch of the military and tell your commanding officers that your personal beliefs are more important that official policy, what happens to you?

[jimnyc]

This is interesting. "policy" was for the longest time to include religion in the oath and so many other aspects. Folks that complained about that 200 year policy - are likely the same complaining about this guy. Some just want any version they see of religion tossed (of course only if it's Christianity). But if it's about, let's say, a muslim who wants to wear a special garb for a beard, then that MUST be accommodated.


* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.

Which is true based on his beliefs. It's better than outright killing her for having premarital sex, as some do, and we rarely hear complaints.


* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”

Which is true based on his beliefs. It's better than outright killing him for being gay, as some do, and we rarely hear complaints


* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Which is true based on his beliefs. It's better than outright killing him/her for premarital sex, as some do, and we rarely hear complaints.

[darin]

Actually impossible for a 'true christian' to berate ANYONE because of their percieved sin. "True Christians" cannot be unloving.

The chaplain might be a dick. :(

[jimnyc]

Actually impossible for a 'true christian' to berate ANYONE because of their percieved sin. "True Christians" cannot be unloving.

The chaplain might be a dick. :(

Maybe he didn't actually "berate" them. Maybe he just spoke his christian beliefs, and others see it as "berating"? Some tend to run with their feelings when they feel insulted, even if it's just religious speak. It's also possible that he was in fact a little offensive in the manner in which he delivered his message. Either way, I'm personally tired of seeing people fired, forced to leave jobs and such, for simply speaking their minds, whether offensive or not. Similar to those in the fraternity, while what they said was reprehensible, I wish the 1st would win out...

You go to a "chaplain", which is a religious person, you are likely to hear some religious feedback. Priests as chaplains goes back a LONG LONG time. While I do understand they should still be kind, gentle and more towards the problems of the folks seeking them out - at the end of the day they are still priests, rabbis, imams or other religious folks.

[darin]

Maybe he didn't actually "berate" them. Maybe he just spoke his christian beliefs, and others see it as "berating"? Some tend to run with their feelings when they feel insulted, even if it's just religious speak. It's also possible that he was in fact a little offensive in the manner in which he delivered his message. Either way, I'm personally tired of seeing people fired, forced to leave jobs and such, for simply speaking their minds, whether offensive or not. Similar to those in the fraternity, while what they said was reprehensible, I wish the 1st would win out...

You go to a "chaplain", which is a religious person, you are likely to hear some religious feedback. Priests as chaplains goes back a LONG LONG time. While I do understand they should still be kind, gentle and more towards the problems of the folks seeking them out - at the end of the day they are still priests, rabbis, imams or other religious folks.

Very good point! These days, telling somebody something they don't want to hear, or something that contradicts them equates to berating/harassing/or hating and fearing.

:-/

[fj1200]

Wow, two more gay threads in one day. You people got it bad.

[jimnyc]

Wow, two more gay threads in one day. You people got it bad.

I saw this as more about the chaplain, his religious aspect of things, the military... and very less so about gays, other than the hypocrisy of some who never ever point out the handling of gays by other places. Gays 100% aside, I believe that when someone walks in to speak with a chaplain, they can expect some sort of religious response.

[fj1200]

I saw this as more about the chaplain, his religious aspect of things, the military... and very less so about gays, other than the hypocrisy of some who never ever point out the handling of gays by other places. Gays 100% aside, I believe that when someone walks in to speak with a chaplain, they can expect some sort of religious response.

Another thread with a gay pretext another day. ;)

But right, I'm not sure why stuff like this comes up other than to try and make news. Did they really expect a different response when going to a chaplain? But dmp is right, he might be a jerk.

[jimnyc]

Another thread with a gay pretext another day. ;)

But right, I'm not sure why stuff like this comes up other than to try and make news. Did they really expect a different response when going to a chaplain? But dmp is right, he might be a jerk.

Tis very possible! I met one. He was 100% spot on about what he told me, so I didn't get angry at his response - I got angry in how he delivered his response. Mean bastard hurt my feelings!!

[Noir]

And the lesson is - if you want counselling, even if you're religious, go see a secular counsellor.

[fj1200]

Right on time. "Aack, Muzzies!"


Islam teaches that gays are to be executed.....and sharia nations do exactly that!

Your handle on the Koran seems to be as solid as your handle on the bible in relation to gays... which is to say it reflects your bias.


Rulings by modern scholars of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Rulings_by_modern_scholars_of_Islam) With few exceptions all scholars of Sharia, or Islamic law, interpret homosexual activity as a punishable offence as well as a sin. There is no specific punishment prescribed, however, and this is usually left to the discretion of the local authorities on Islam.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-31) Mohamed El-Moctar El-Shinqiti, a contemporary Mauritanian scholar, has argued that "[even though] homosexuality is a grievous sin...[a] no legal punishment is stated in the Qur'an for homosexuality... it is not reported that Prophet Muhammad has punished somebody for committing homosexuality...[c] there is [B]no authentic hadith reported from the Prophet prescribing a punishment for the homosexuals..." Hadith scholars such as Al-Bukhari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Bukhari),Yahya ibn Ma'in (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_ibn_Ma%27in), Al-Nasa'i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nasa%27i), Ibn Hazm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm), Al-Tirmidhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Tirmidhi), and others have impugned these statements.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-32)
Faisal Kutty, a professor of Islamic law at Indiana-based Valparaiso University Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valparaiso_University_Law_School) and Toronto-based Osgoode Hall Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osgoode_Hall_Law_School), commented on the contemporary same-sex marriage debate in a March 27, 2014 essay in the Huffington Post.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-33) He acknowledged that while Islamic law iterations prohibits pre- and extra-marital as well as same-sex sexual activity, it does not attempt to "regulate feelings, emotions and urges, but only its translation into action that authorities had declared unlawful." Kutty, who teaches comparative law and legal reasoning, also wrote that many Islamic scholars [34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-34) have "even argued that homosexual tendencies themselves were not haram [prohibited] but had to be suppressed for the public good." He claimed that this may not be "what the LGBTQ community wants to hear," but he wrote that, "it reveals that even classical Islamic jurists struggled with this issue and had a more sophisticated attitude than many contemporary Muslims." Kutty who in the past wrote in support of allowing Islamic principles in dispute resolution also noted that "most Muslims have no problem extending full human rights to those - even Muslims - who live together 'in sin'." He argued that therefore it seems hypocritical to deny fundamental rights to same-sex couples. Moreover, he argued as pointed out by Islamic legal scholar Mohamed Fadel,[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-35) this is not about changing Islamic marriage (nikah), but about making "sure that all citizens have access to the same kinds of public benefits.

[fj1200]

And the lesson is - if you want counselling, even if you're religious, go see a secular counsellor.

Or...


But all that changed after Modder’s assistant, a married gay officer at the base who was upset about the minister’s views on same-sex relationships and homosexuality, filed a complaint against the chaplain.The young officer had been working for the chaplain only for about a month when he began peppering him with questions about homosexuality.
“His five-page letter of complaint was unconscionable,” Modder told me. “It was insulting and it was devastating. I felt I discriminated against.”

[Drummond]

Or...

Leftie agenda going well for you, FJ ? No Conservatives being attacked today .. ?:rolleyes:

Tyr is correct. Or do you believe that there's not a plethora of examples of proof of such punishments .. some even survived by those on the receiving-end !! .. to be found on the Internet ?

[fj1200]

Leftie ... :haironfire:

You would look less like an idiot if you had quoted the correct post. You would also look less stupid if you took note that I provided support that he was wrong. I don't dispute that many countries carry out the death penalty but I also note that not all countries do. The point being that Islam is not the monolithic bloc it's made out to be.

But no, you're a moron who can't put together two rational sentences without blathering on about lefties.

[indago]

Moreover, he argued as pointed out by Islamic legal scholar Mohamed Fadel,[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#cite_note-35) this is not about changing Islamic marriage (nikah), but about making "sure that all citizens have access to the same kinds of public benefits.

And didn't I just know that, somehow...

It's about the bennies

[jimnyc]

And the lesson is - if you want counselling, even if you're religious, go see a secular counsellor.

I think FJ pointed out the real issue here, and it wasn't with the chaplain. But of course what you're saying is correct - if you want religious advice you seek a religious person out, and if you simply want general advice or help, and don't want to hear about religion, one can see a general counselor or a psychiatrist.

[fj1200]

And didn't I just know that, somehow...

It's about the bennies

:facepalm99:

[Drummond]

You would also look less stupid if you took note that I provided support that he was wrong.

'Support', you say ? Choosing your words carefully ?

I'll tell you what you didn't 'provide' .. namely, PROOF. This is because you cannot 'prove' the truth of an UNtruth. And .. well you know it, hence your carefully chosen word to substitute for 'proof'.


I don't dispute that many countries carry out the death penalty but I also note that not all countries do. The point being that Islam is not the monolithic bloc it's made out to be.

Doesn't prove a thing. Saudi Arabia has a harsher pro-Islamist regime than many others, but this doesn't prove that all other countries are 'un-Islamic'. Islam, nonetheless, isn't a differing 'faith' between all of those countries.

As I've debated elsewhere, the Koran is a mess, holding within it verses which on first examination appear contradictory. Look closer, though, and you discover the truth: ABROGATIONS set the reality of the Koran.

Some Islamic societies are more attentive to these than others. Jafar, when he was here, tried, to an extent, to sell us the 'un-abrogated' version of his faith, and in so doing, failed to represent it (or himself) honestly.


But no, you're a moron who can't put together two rational sentences without blathering on about lefties.

It really, REALLY, bothers you, doesn't it ? I've said it time and again .. argue as a Leftie would, and I'll remind you of it. After all, your Leftie thinking, which you evidently cannot change (.. because you ARE one ..) is something that leaks out in your arguments again and again.

So, you've perfected the 'Obama sucks' mantra ? Easy to type. Not so easy to back up, though, when your arguments find common cause with his own Leftieness. Your soft line on terrorist so-called 'rights' comes immediately to mind ...

[Olivia]

"Modder is also accused of:
* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.
* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”
* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a great counsellor...


The Chaplain denies saying these things. Why do you automatically believe he did say them?

[DLT]

`.....The bottom line is that if you do not want to be counseled by a Christian chaplain then don't go. Chaplains have a right to maintain their beliefs in performing their jobs.`

`Thousands of Americans, including former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and famed evangelist Franklin Graham, have come to the defense of a chaplain who could be thrown out of the Navy because of his Christian faith.
Lt. Cmdr. Wes Modder has been accused of failing to show “tolerance and respect” in private counseling sessions regarding issues pertaining to faith, marriage and sexuality – specifically homosexuality.`

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...cmp=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/12/more-than-40000-rally-for-navy-chaplain-accused-being-anti-gay/?intcmp=latestnews)

******************************************
`Mike Huckabee, a potential candidate for the White House in 2016, wonders if it is “becoming illegal to be a Christian” in the military.`


`Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, defended Modder in a Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/FranklinGraham?fref=nf).`
“It’s a sad day in America when military chaplains have to choose between being true to their faith and keeping their jobs,” he wrote. “But this is what’s happening at every level under the Obama administration.”

The song "We've Only Just Begun" comes to mind re: this persecution against Christians in America. We ain't seen nuthin yet, I suspect.

That's ok. I'm up for and ready for a good fight. And I am not now, nor have I ever been, the kind of Christian that turns the other cheek.

[DLT]

"Modder is also accused of:
* Telling a woman that she was “shaming herself in the eyes of God” for having premarital sex.
* Telling a student that homosexuality was wrong and that “the penis was meant for the vagina and not for the anus.”
* Berating an unmarried student for becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a great counsellor...

Sooo...what was he supposed to do, according to you? Pat them all on the back and tell em "that's ok, God loves you no matter how much or how often you continue to sin and sin and sin"? Cause that would be a lie. Oh wait...I guess to most lefties, that would be the SOP/preferable way to go. Nevermind.

[fj1200]

'Support', you say ? Choosing your words carefully ?

I'll tell you what you didn't 'provide' .. namely, PROOF. This is because you cannot 'prove' the truth of an UNtruth. And .. well you know it, hence your carefully chosen word to substitute for 'proof'.

Support, proof, call it what you like but that's what I offered. It is far better than the loon ranting offered by some.


Doesn't prove a thing. Saudi Arabia has a harsher pro-Islamist regime than many others, but this doesn't prove that all other countries are 'un-Islamic'. Islam, nonetheless, isn't a differing 'faith' between all of those countries.

As I've debated elsewhere, the Koran is a mess, holding within it verses which on first examination appear contradictory. Look closer, though, and you discover the truth: ABROGATIONS set the reality of the Koran.

Some Islamic societies are more attentive to these than others. Jafar, when he was here, tried, to an extent, to sell us the 'un-abrogated' version of his faith, and in so doing, failed to represent it (or himself) honestly.

And someone could point out that there are multiple contradictions in the bible; It doesn't really prove anything either way. Just like I don't want to live in, or even visit, some Islamic countries I wouldn't want to live under the interpretation of the bible that some have. Nevertheless you've still offered nothing more than the biased version that you want to present as the one version. If you want to debate Jafar I suggest you go find him.


It really, REALLY, bothers you, doesn't it ? I've said it time and again .. argue as a Leftie would, and I'll remind you of it. After all, your Leftie thinking, which you evidently cannot change (.. because you ARE one ..) is something that leaks out in your arguments again and again.

So, you've perfected the 'Obama sucks' mantra ? Easy to type. Not so easy to back up, though, when your arguments find common cause with his own Leftieness. Your soft line on terrorist so-called 'rights' comes immediately to mind ...

Ah yes, now you're words become small, yellow, and meaningless. Rant like a loon, bleat out "Aack leftie!" and eventually slink away. You've offered nothing more than that so many times.

[PixieStix]

wrong thread