Flag Pledge

[indago]

A few teen girls at South Portland High School in Maine are facing harsh criticism for giving their fellow students the option to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. ...They discovered that state law requires schools to allow every student to have the opportunity to recite the Pledge of Allegiance but “may not require a student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.” ...The young women want people to be free to think about what the pledge means to them and decide for themselves whether they want to participate. ...Principal Ryan Caron told the NBC affiliate that he asked SanGiovanni to stop saying, "if you'd like to," because of school procedure... "The fact that I was asked to take away the 'If you would like to,'" SanGiovanni said, "I felt like they were asking me to take away the law."

article (http://news.yahoo.com/teen-girls-criticized-for-giving-students-choice-over-whether-to-say-pledge-of-allegiance-220757523.html)

There are always those petty tyrants who want to bring us back to the days of feudal society, where the subjects owed allegiance to the King. They have no concept of Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, where the hierarchical arrangement between government and the people is declared.

James Wilson, Justice of the Supreme Court, in 1793, noting that a State was subordinated to the people, and "everything else" was subordinate to the State. He noted that in the practice of politics there has been a strong current against the nature of things; that "As the State has claimed precedence of the people; so, in the same inverted course of things, the Government has often claimed precedence of the State". He recognized that the State is an artificial person. An artificial person is created by law, as distinct from the natural person, or human being. The federal government is an artificial person.

So, the petty tyrants have it all backwards: it is government that should be pledging allegiance to the people whom they serve.

[indago]

During the creation of the Bill of Rights, there was a particular phrasing in the Preamble that Mr. Elbridge Gerry, a Representative from the State of Massachusetts, took exception to, as recorded in The Congressional Register of 14 August 1789: "Mr. Gerry said they were not well expressed, we have it here 'government being intended for the benefit of the people,' this holds up an idea that all the governments of the earth are intended for the benefit of the people: Now, I am so far from being of this opinion, that I don't believe that one out of fifty is intended for any such purpose. I believe the establishment of most governments was to gratify the ambition of an individual, who by fraud, force, or accident, had made himself master of the people. If we contemplate the history of nations, ancient or modern, we shall find they originated either in fraud or force, or both; if this is demonstrable, how can we pretend to say that governments are intended for the benefit of those who are most oppressed by them. This maxim does not appear to me to be strictly true in fact, therefore I think we ought not to insert it in the constitution."


It wasn't.

[indago]

From The Associated Press 29 April 2016:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Nicole Whitmore tells The Island Packet of Hilton Head (http://bit.ly/1qZJ91Z ) her 14-year-old son was sitting with other students during the Pledge of Allegiance on Tuesday when the teacher asked them to stand. Whitmore says her son told a friend it didn't matter whether they stood because "Donald Trump is going to send us back to Africa." Whitmore says the teacher then told her son he should go back.

...The district has reminded teachers that state law requires schools to make time for the pledge but students do not have to participate or stand.
--------------------------------------------------------------

article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RACIAL_COMMENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-04-29-08-31-29)

[Bilgerat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM

[Elessar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM


Bilge..That was wonderful!

Kudos for finding and posting it.

[aboutime]

Without any doubt...indago is slowly proving to ME...how near totally UN-AMERICAN, and destined to invite the destruction of America one, lonely, miserable person can be.

[Noir]

Without any doubt...indago is slowly proving to ME...how near totally UN-AMERICAN, and destined to invite the destruction of America one, lonely, miserable person can be.


Is it un-American to have freedom of choice?

[aboutime]

Is it un-American to have freedom of choice?


No. And it's also not Un-American to be ignorant, stupid, and hate-filled either.

I suppose you, Noir; have no dedication, or feelings of support for your nation. And enjoy that freedom of choice that makes you honored to be just as ignorant, stupid, and hate-filled as everybody else.

[Noir]

No.

So you believe it is right and "american" for the folks in the OP to state that the pledge is optional?

[Gunny]

Is it un-American to have freedom of choice?

No. It's un-American to be YOU. It's also un-American to question every history and tradition we have for no reason other than to start sh*t.

[Elessar]

Is it un-American to have freedom of choice?

I guess you did not listen carefully to what Red Skelton said.
I agree with Gunny. You just want to be contrary and start shit,
and have little honor for your own nation.

[Noir]

I guess you did not listen carefully to what Red Skelton said.
I agree with Gunny. You just want to be contrary and start shit,
and have little honor for your own nation.

The people who are looking to ''start shit'' are the people from the OP who are criticising freedom of choice.

[jimnyc]

No. It's un-American to be YOU. It's also un-American to question every history and tradition we have for no reason other than to start sh*t.

He questions almost every little tradition that America has. He should move here as he would make an awesome whiny liberal to add to our collection! But then again, I suppose I would be testy and :poke:at others too if they lived in the greatest country on earth and I was stuck on an island like he was Chuck Noland. :laugh:

[Bilgerat]

The people who are looking to ''start shit'' are the people from the OP who are criticising freedom of choice.

Ah yes, the famous "free speech" clause


http://www.therebel.media/watch_meet_the_tantrum_throwing_protester_the_inte rnet_has_dubbed_trigglypuff

[Elessar]

The people who are looking to ''start shit'' are the people from the OP who are criticising freedom of choice.

I did not say anything about freedom of choice. The spiraling problem
is those that have no respect for the feelings of the majority. They should
just sit still and keep their mouths shut. Is that too hard for spoon-pounding
brat Liberals to understand? You pipe up without even understanding the
intent of the message, trying to interpret it in your own bent fashion.
You've got the freedom to choose between being an adult and let things pass,
or choosing to get whiny all the damn time if you do not like something.

If you spoon-pounders do not like something, so what? Do you expect the
vast majority to kiss your ass because you get butt-hurt all the time?

The Pledge is meant to honor ALL Americans without exception. Why a
Gay Brit makes this a personal issue is pure horseshit and beyond comprehension.

[Noir]

They should just sit still and keep their mouths shut. Is that too hard for spoon-pounding brat Liberals to understand?

The irony being that the point presented in the OP is that one does not have to recite a pledge, i.e. They can keep your mouth shut - which appears to be drawing ire.

[aboutime]

The people who are looking to ''start shit'' are the people from the OP who are criticising freedom of choice.


Noir. Actually. WE are really happy that no more people like you come here to claim to be Americans while constantly complaining, whining, and always demanding you are always right. You call "Starting Shit" what I, and others call Dedication, and Respect for our nation. YOU DO have that freedom of choice to disagree, and even hate what we stand for. And we exercise our freedom of choice to name ANTI-AMERICAN sentiments as we see them.

[Elessar]

The irony being that the point presented in the OP is that one does not have to recite a pledge, i.e. They can keep your mouth shut - which appears to be drawing ire.

The irony is that you read into things what you want, then try to
preach about it. I see lots of things I do not like but just either stand and
shake my head or walk away.

You flamers are different...you cannot leave stuff alone and have to
whine all the time.

Need to pull off your bib and grow up.

[darin]

People never, honestly pledge allegiance. They are reciting a poem...they are simply saying words. To me it's a useless gesture and silly to require.

[indago]

Is it un-American to have freedom of choice?

Well, that's a simple and forthright query. You, being a Brit, are still within the feudal society concepts, as previously noted, that was totally rejected by our foundational documents.

Ever since marketing director for The Youth's Companion, James B. Upham, promoted the sale of American flags to schools — at a hefty profit for the magazine, by the way — and hired Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, to compose a short "pledge" that would inspire "patriotism" in the nation's youth, there has been controversy concerning a "pledge": Indoctrination of our children; unconstitutional; forced participation; considered to be idolatry; etc. In 1943, the Supreme Court declared that there was no requirement that the "pledge" be recited, and "asserted that such ideological dogma is antithetical to the principles of the country".

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us."

Some States make it a requirement that the "pledge" be recited in the schools, and therein lies the basis for the complaints filed with the courts. Petty tyrants, and the Number 42 Jacket & Number 2 Hat crowd still insist that it is "unpatriotic" to not recite, but many Americans, realizing that it is against American principles, reject this premise.

America has done quite well before this "pledge" thing became a prominent activity in our culture. It should be abolished, and we can all get back to being Americans again.

[aboutime]

People never, honestly pledge allegiance. They are reciting a poem...they are simply saying words. To me it's a useless gesture and silly to require.



dmp. I agree with you in a way. In general. Only the insincere, lazy, irresponsible members of the perpetual ME, and I Generations have no respect for anything they have. They simply do not care to accept any responsibility that might coerce their phoniness, and ignorance into factual circumstances.

Nobody is REQUIRED to say it, or repeat it. Which separates the people who don't care, from those who Do.

A sad state for our entire society. Falling on the selfishness of the whiners, and crybabies around us.

[Noir]

Nobody is REQUIRED to say it, or repeat it. .

And yet "teen girls at South Portland High School in Maine are facing harsh criticism for giving their fellow students the option to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance."

[Elessar]

And yet "teen girls at South Portland High School in Maine are facing harsh criticism for giving their fellow students the option to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance."

So? Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Expression, Freedom of Choice, and Freedom of Assembly are
NOT One-Way streets as Liberals view them to be.

Some of that you make an example of is just part of growing up, which you seemed
to have missed, or simple peer pressure.

[indago]

dmp. I agree with you in a way. In general. Only the insincere, lazy, irresponsible members of the perpetual ME, and I Generations have no respect for anything they have. They simply do not care to accept any responsibility that might coerce their phoniness, and ignorance into factual circumstances.

Nobody is REQUIRED to say it, or repeat it. Which separates the people who don't care, from those who Do.

A sad state for our entire society. Falling on the selfishness of the whiners, and crybabies around us.

What does "care" have to do with it, perv?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, that's a simple and forthright query. You, being a Brit, are still within the feudal society concepts, as previously noted, that was totally rejected by our foundational documents.

Ever since marketing director for The Youth's Companion, James B. Upham, promoted the sale of American flags to schools — at a hefty profit for the magazine, by the way — and hired Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, to compose a short "pledge" that would inspire "patriotism" in the nation's youth, there has been controversy concerning a "pledge": Indoctrination of our children; unconstitutional; forced participation; considered to be idolatry; etc. In 1943, the Supreme Court declared that there was no requirement that the "pledge" be recited, and "asserted that such ideological dogma is antithetical to the principles of the country".

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us."

Some States make it a requirement that the "pledge" be recited in the schools, and therein lies the basis for the complaints filed with the courts. Petty tyrants, and the Number 42 Jacket & Number 2 Hat crowd still insist that it is "unpatriotic" to not recite, but many Americans, realizing that it is against American principles, reject this premise.

America has done quite well before this "pledge" thing became a prominent activity in our culture. It should be abolished, and we can all get back to being Americans again.

Reciting the pledge should be a voluntary act.
Nobody should be forced to recite the pledge. Just as nobody should force it to banned in schools.
In my high school back in the late 60's /early seventies, we recited the pledge from first grade up to
12th grade.
A large American flag stood in a corner by the teacher's desk each grade level faced the flag and recited the pledge first opening class of the day.
Nobody objected...nobody!!
And we each knew exactly what those words meant....
These days its almost a sin to be patriotic if one believes the dem/libs/leftists.
Those maggots that are truly only fit to be garbage collectors and sewer cleaners..--Tyr

[aboutime]

What does "care" have to do with it, perv?



Maybe someone should pretend to CARE about you when you call someone a perv. If I am a perv. I have convinced you that my ability to IMITATE YOU is working.

[Elessar]

Reciting the pledge should be a voluntary act.
Nobody should be forced to recite the pledge. Just as nobody should force it to banned in schools.
In my high school back in the late 60's /early seventies, we recited the pledge from first grade up to
12th grade.
A large American flag stood in a corner by the teacher's desk each grade level faced the flag and recited the pledge first opening class of the day.
Nobody objected...nobody!!
And we each knew exactly what those words meant....
These days its almost a sin to be patriotic if one believes the dem/libs/leftists.
Those maggots that are truly only fit to be garbage collectors and sewer cleaners..--Tyr

We also had a prayer delivered by local clergy on a Wednesday.

Nobody objected...nobody refused to listen...never was a problem.

Flags were in each classroom.

Now liberal asses in CA insist Mexican flags be flown in or at USA schools.

Libs and their whining and lawsuit threatening strategy are forcing the
majority to cave in.

It's about time someone stood up to them...but the 'tolerant' Libs resort to
violence.

[LongTermGuy]

We also had a prayer delivered by local clergy on a Wednesday.

Nobody objected...nobody refused to listen...never was a problem.

Flags were in each classroom.

Now liberal asses in CA insist Mexican flags be flown in or at USA schools.

Libs and their whining and lawsuit threatening strategy are forcing the
majority to cave in.

It's about time someone stood up to them...but the 'tolerant' Libs resort to
violence.



...so true dear friend....

"but the 'tolerant' Libs resort to
violence"

One day someone will come along who supports the Police...and they him....and This someone will let them do their Jobs...*Police and National Guard....and put an end to the Leftist insanity once and for all...

[indago]

Maybe someone should pretend to CARE about you when you call someone a perv. If I am a perv. I have convinced you that my ability to IMITATE YOU is working.

Perv is as perv does...

PERV (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?48009-Protect-amp-Serve&p=791524#post791524)

Besides, you didn't explain what "care" has to do with it. Maybe you could organize a WCS with others and then you could all pledge to your hearts content, and leave the schools for their proper roll in society.



.

[Gunny]

I did not say anything about freedom of choice. The spiraling problem
is those that have no respect for the feelings of the majority. They should
just sit still and keep their mouths shut. Is that too hard for spoon-pounding
brat Liberals to understand? You pipe up without even understanding the
intent of the message, trying to interpret it in your own bent fashion.
You've got the freedom to choose between being an adult and let things pass,
or choosing to get whiny all the damn time if you do not like something.

If you spoon-pounders do not like something, so what? Do you expect the
vast majority to kiss your ass because you get butt-hurt all the time?

The Pledge is meant to honor ALL Americans without exception. Why a
Gay Brit makes this a personal issue is pure horseshit and beyond comprehension.

Excellent post. I got to spread it around some to rep you again.

[Gunny]

Perv is as perv does...

PERV (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?48009-Protect-amp-Serve&p=791524#post791524)

Besides, you didn't explain what "care" has to do with it. Maybe you could organize a WCS with others and then you could all pledge to your hearts content, and leave the schools for their proper roll in society.



.

Who the f*ck are YOU to call someone a perv? Because they believe in something? Unlike you who believes solely in the AP? You pledge allegiance to rhetoric. You're exactly what is wrong with us. So if you want to talk about perverting something .....

[indago]

Who the f*ck are YOU to call someone a perv? Because they believe in something?

No, because he believes in having his hand in his pants while thinking lustful thoughts about me. But you are too lazy to look further into it, being one of the "Number 42 Jacket and Number 2 Hat crowd"...




.

[aboutime]

No, because he believes in having his hand in his pants while thinking lustful thoughts about me. But you are too lazy to look further into it, being one of the "Number 42 Jacket and Number 2 Hat crowd"...




.



That's okay Gunny. Indago won't remove his hands from my pockets. But I can't say I mind indago's constant squeezing. He (squeezes) serves more than one purpose. A really "HANDY" kind of guy!

As Hillary would also brag. INDAGO has his hand on My Button at 3:00 A.M.