Rand Paul on vaccinations

[jimnyc]

He's going to be his Dad in a matter of years, you watch. And I see the 'ol bugger is still as stupid as ever!!

---

On Monday, likely 2016 presidential candidate Rand Paul stuck his foot in his mouth on, of all issues, vaccinations. Despite zero credible evidence that vaccines cause autism, Paul said that he'd heard of "many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines."

This is pretty shocking stuff, even on a day when other politicians were busy saying embarrassing things about vaccines. But it tells us a lot about the biggest hurdle to Paul if he decides he wants to win the 2016 Republican primary — Rand Paul.

Paul's Achilles heel is his reputation in the Republican Party as an undisciplined ideologue, a candidate more concerned with libertarian purity than winning national elections. So on days like Tuesday, when he pops off on TV, it seems like he can't help himself from risking confirming the GOP's worst fears about him.

If he decides to get into the 2016 race, he will need to win over party elites. Some go so far as to say he has to win the "invisible primary," the name political scientists have given to the process by which elites inside the GOP — activists, donors, local party officials, and the like — choose who to support in the eventual race.

Paul's political project is incredibly ambitious. He needs to sell his vision of a restrained foreign policy and a minimally intrusive federal government to a party that traditionally believes in aggressive interventionism abroad and strict Christian morality at home. That means Paul already faces an uphill battle among really important constituencies inside the GOP.

To make matters worse, Paul has a dad problem. His father, former Congressman Ron Paul, wasn't just a fairly purist libertarian: he also has a reputation for kookiness and troubling extremism. During the elder Paul's 2008 and 2012 runs for the presidency, journalists discovered a number of shockingly racist newsletters published under Paul's byline. More recently, the Ron Paul Institute (his post-Congress project) posted an article suggesting the Charlie Hebdo shootings may have been a secret US government plot. This history has alienated Ron Paul from mainstream libertarian institutions like the Cato Institute, which emphatically do not share his views on these topics.

The younger Paul not only needs to convince skeptical Republican elites to buy his worldview — which is inspired by the same school of thought as his father's — but he also has to get distance between himself, his father, and his father's ties to outright conspiracy theorists. Even a whiff of that kind of weirdness could turn off even sympathetic Republican elites.

Rest here - http://www.vox.com/2015/2/3/7966975/rand-paul-vaccine

[Perianne]

Even a whiff of that kind of weirdness could turn off even sympathetic Republican elites.


Exactly. And that includes me. He is my Senator but I find him increasingly odd.

[darin]

Couple thoughts -

First - meds should have to be proven NOT to cause things; rather than having to prove the conditions were caused by the meds.

Secondly - why are folks - pro-vacinnation folks - upset when people don't vaccinate their kids? The reasoning escapes me.

[jimnyc]

Couple thoughts -

First - meds should have to be proven NOT to cause things; rather than having to prove the conditions were caused by the meds.

Secondly - why are folks - pro-vacinnation folks - upset when people don't vaccinate their kids? The reasoning escapes me.

An easy explanation is that it potentially puts others at risk. I'm stealing a prior post from Kathianne:

---

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lancet.html?_r=0

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/02/lancet_wakefield_autism_mmr_au.html

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/vaccine_safety/harm.htm

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/mdmama/2013/09/the_real_dangers_of_not_getting_vaccines.html

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/09/24/peds.2013-0878.full.pdf+html

The following is a nutshell of the repercussions of the idiots who don't immunize:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/30/parents-not-vaccinating-kids-contributed-to-whooping-cough-outbreaks/



California’s worst episode of whooping cough, or pertussis, in 2010, likely spread among unvaccinated children to infect 9,210 youngsters.At first, the outbreak was blamed on waning immunity to the whooping cough vaccine, but new research published in the journal Pediatrics reports that the high number of children who were intentionally unvaccinated also contributed to the rapid spread of the infection.
In recent years, a small but vocal group of parents have decided to either limit the number of vaccines their children receive, or to not immunize their children at all according to recommended national guidelines. Some are concerned about ‘vaccine load,’ and believe that their infants’ still-developing immune systems can getoverwhelmed by multiple shots that they receive during one visit to the pediatrician. Others continue to doubt the safety of the immunizations themselves, worried about a connection between the vaccines and a higher risk of autism. But none of these reasons are supported by solid scientific evidence; recent studies showed that receiving several vaccines on a single day was not associated with a higher risk of autism, and the researcher responsible for raising the alarm about shots and autism was discredited.
MORE: How Safe Are Vaccines?
Parents opting out of vaccinations concerns public health officials since in addition to the pertussis outbreaks, there are hints that measles cases may also be rising due to parental vaccine refusals. While national childhood immunization rates are good overall, at around 90%, Nina Shapiro, a professor at the David Geffen School of Medicine at University of California Los Angeles, crystallized the worry over unvaccinated kids in an op-ed in the Los Angeles Times :
Private schools vary widely, but some have rates of less than 20%. Yes, that’s right: Parents are willingly paying up to $25,000 a year to schools at which fewer than 1 in 5 kindergartners has been immunized against the pathogens causing such life-threatening illnesses as measles, polio,meningitis and pertussis (more commonly known as whooping cough). In order for a school to be considered truly immunized, from a public health standpoint, its immunization rate needs to be 90% or higher.
The researchers of the Pediatrics study compared the number of intentionally unvaccinated children who entered kindergarten from 2005 to 2010 to the onset of the whooping cough outbreak in 2010. They were able to identify 39 regional clusters of kids with non-medical reasons for being unvaccinated, and two clusters that were significantly related to rapid spread of whooping cough. Children who are intentionally not vaccinated and become infected with diseases like measles or pertussis, can pass the illness on to those who can’t be immunized, such as babies under six months and those with compromised immune systems, such as cancer patients.
The authors hope that the results of their study reaffirm the harms that intentionally not immunizing children can bring — not only to the unvaccinated but to those around them as well.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32640-Calif-schools-turn-away-unvaccinated-students&p=703604&highlight=vaccination#post703604

[darin]

It can't put vaccinated people at risk. (shrug).


If it puts other willfully-un-vaccinated people at risk...well..so be it.


To top it off...it puts only those at risk IF the person catches/has it to begin with.


So - to summarize:

Unvaccinated people put only other Unvaccinated people at risk. That is, in my book, the way it should be.

If Kids get it because their parents didn't choose vaccination....big f'in deal. That's on the parents.

If Others get it because they didn't choose vaccination...big f'in deal. That's on them.

Make sense?

[jimnyc]

It can't put vaccinated people at risk. (shrug).


If it puts other willfully-un-vaccinated people at risk...well..so be it.


To top it off...it puts only those at risk IF the person catches/has it to begin with.


So - to summarize:

Unvaccinated people put only other Unvaccinated people at risk. That is, in my book, the way it should be.

If Kids get it because their parents didn't choose vaccination....big f'in deal. That's on the parents.

If Others get it because they didn't choose vaccination...big f'in deal. That's on them.

Make sense?

And what about folks like this:


Children who are intentionally not vaccinated and become infected with diseases like measles or pertussis, can pass the illness on to those who can’t be immunized, such as babies under six months and those with compromised immune systems, such as cancer patients.

[darin]

I think of it with the same merrit as if this was the statement:


Children who are intentionally not vaccinated and become infected with diseases like measles or pertussis, can bring guns to school and shoot and kill those who can’t be immunized, such as babies under six months and those with compromised security systems, such as cancer patients.

It's hysteria. It's meant to tickle the ears while avoiding a logical point for the practice.

[sundaydriver]

It's hysteria. It's meant to tickle the ears while avoiding a logical point for the practice.

It's nice to be young and not have any real idea why vaccinations are given. I used to go with my Dad to visit one of his friends affected by Polio who was in a ward like this and later at home when his family could afford their own iron lung. This is how he lived for ~ a dozen years.

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo302/rover27/Iron_lungs_zpszoad3lr7.jpg (http://s386.photobucket.com/user/rover27/media/Iron_lungs_zpszoad3lr7.jpg.html)

[Bilgerat]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bg020315dAPR.jpg

[darin]

It's nice to be young and not have any real idea why vaccinations are given. I used to go with my Dad to visit one of his friends affected by Polio who was in a ward like this and later at home when his family could afford their own iron lung. This is how he lived for ~ a dozen years.

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo302/rover27/Iron_lungs_zpszoad3lr7.jpg


Did you mean to quote me? Your reply didn't speak to what I wrote; just wanna make sure I didn't miss something.

[Nukeman]

Darrin show us the proof that vaccines cause any issues such as Autism!! The accusation has been made so it it up to the accuser to present FACTS that the statement is true....

The primary reason there was an uptick in autism rates was due to the FACT that they changed the criteria and made it less stringent and we are better at diagnosing autism today.

There is NO scientific FACT that vaccinations are related to autism and that is the PRIMARY reason parents refuse to get their children vaccinated or "religious" reasons.

the whole idea of vaccinating children is to bring about an umbrella affect to protect not only those who are vaccinated but to help those "unable" to be so, not for willful ignorance!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

[darin]

Why would I need to show proof of anything I'm not arguing? My point above was: Companies/Govt should Ensure safety of drugs; not the other way around - people shouldn't have to prove anything.

I'm saying...LIBERTY should dictate. Parental decisions should be the land of the law.

Nobody with vaccinated kids has a valid worry; nobody who is vaccinated should worry.

There's a case IF a person was infected they could pass that to another non-infected soul; well...Got it. doesn't matter. Not worth the Govt mandating vaccination because the gov't generally is f'd up. It's akin to if the govt decided to tell us how to give our money to charity. Oh yeah...they already do that. Okay - it's like if the Govt decided to take 50% of what I leave to my kids; my estate after I die - for the good of the nation. Shit. They do that too.

[Perianne]

Darrin show us the proof that vaccines cause any issues such as Autism!! The accusation has been made so it it up to the accuser to present FACTS that the statement is true....

The primary reason there was an uptick in autism rates was due to the FACT that they changed the criteria and made it less stringent and we are better at diagnosing autism today.

There is NO scientific FACT that vaccinations are related to autism and that is the PRIMARY reason parents refuse to get their children vaccinated or "religious" reasons.

the whole idea of vaccinating children is to bring about an umbrella affect to protect not only those who are vaccinated but to help those "unable" to be so, not for willful ignorance!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

That nasty-mouthed Penn got it right on the money.

[Kathianne]

Why would I need to show proof of anything I'm not arguing? My point above was: Companies/Govt should Ensure safety of drugs; not the other way around - people shouldn't have to prove anything.

I'm saying...LIBERTY should dictate. Parental decisions should be the land of the law.

Nobody with vaccinated kids has a valid worry; nobody who is vaccinated should worry.

There's a case IF a person was infected they could pass that to another non-infected soul; well...Got it. doesn't matter. Not worth the Govt mandating vaccination because the gov't generally is f'd up. It's akin to if the govt decided to tell us how to give our money to charity. Oh yeah...they already do that. Okay - it's like if the Govt decided to take 50% of what I leave to my kids; my estate after I die - for the good of the nation. Shit. They do that too.

The 'herd effect' of vaccinations protects those who truly can't take the vaccines: those who are allergic to part of the vaccine, those with immune system problems with issues like cancer.

[Perianne]

Couple thoughts -

First - meds should have to be proven NOT to cause things; rather than having to prove the conditions were caused by the meds.

Secondly - why are folks - pro-vacinnation folks - upset when people don't vaccinate their kids? The reasoning escapes me.

Okay, by that reasoning, you should have to go to court and prove that you didn't rob that store last week.

I seriously cannot comprehend your thinking. I will keep trying.

[jimnyc]

I wonder where our country would be today with the idiots like Paul in charge, and no vaccines? A lot more dead and unhealthy folks, that's for sure. Not to mention the endless $$$ that it costs when outbreaks occur to the idiots that fail to vaccinate. No different than an idiot who goes to work or school with a flu and spreads it around to everyone else. I have no issue with people making their own decisions, but then keep these kids out of the schools - like all the schools up this way do, bar perhaps a private school. No vaccines, no entry to school - EXACTLY how it should be, and I'm glad they enforce that, as obviously some would stick their kids into these environments not knowing nor caring whether or not they are potentially spreading something.

[gabosaurus]

Parents should have a choice about whether to vaccinate their kids or not.
At the same time, schools should have a choice about whether to admit non-vaccinated kids. Same with daycare centers, businesses, public transportation and parents of vaccinated kids.

[jimnyc]

Parents should have a choice about whether to vaccinate their kids or not.
At the same time, schools should have a choice about whether to admit non-vaccinated kids. Same with daycare centers, businesses, public transportation and parents of vaccinated kids.

Yeppers, and if I were in charge, they would be banned from all of the above.

[sundaydriver]

Did you mean to quote me? Your reply didn't speak to what I wrote; just wanna make sure I didn't miss something.

Yes I did. I did so because in your time it's doubtful you have seen the effects on large numbers of kids of these diseases to think personal liberty & choice trumps almost anything.

[jimnyc]

Yes I did. I did so because in your time it's doubtful you have seen the effects on large numbers of kids of these diseases to think personal liberty & choice trumps almost anything.

A large reason, if not the largest reason, that we don't see huge outbreaks of such diseases is directly connected to vaccinations.

[sundaydriver]

That nasty-mouthed Penn got it right on the money.


Vaccines do not cause autism. Despite much controversy on the topic, researchers haven't found a connection between autism and childhood vaccines. In fact, the original study that ignited the debate years ago has been retracted.


http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/infant-and-toddler-health/in-depth/vaccines/art-20048334

[jimnyc]

This is also a good reason why we vaccinate, look at the changes in times...

http://i.imgur.com/tsoj3wr.jpg

[sundaydriver]

Look to Pakistan for a reason to vaccinate. Polio & other diseases rates are jumping due to kids going unvaccinated due to Taliban propaganda and the killings of vaccination teams.

[darin]

Yes I did. I did so because in your time it's doubtful you have seen the effects on large numbers of kids of these diseases to think personal liberty & choice trumps almost anything.

You don't know me nor know what the fuck I've seen or not-seen; and all that is even BESIDES the point of this thread.


This isn't about what I have seen or not-seen. It's not about if Vaccinations are GOOD for people. This thread is about BigBrother FORCING meds upon children apart from consent of the parents. In essance, this thread is about Liberty or Fascism.

I don't give two jumping shits if we had a medicine allowing for immortality - PARENTS - rightly or wrongly - must be the decision-makers for their kids.

Look - we have millions of parents who are politically liberal. I'd bet a large portion of those voted for Nancy Pelosi and her ilk. Those things - voting for her and her folks - are as-bit as dangerous as polio. Should we force parents to vote libertarian and for only fiscally-conservative politicians simply because those two attributes are exactly what's best for the nation? Silly to think of - but the analogy nearly fits perfectly.

[Bilgerat]

I have a question.

In all this "push" to have our kids vaccinated, just how many of the illegals are up to date on their shots?

[Jeff]

It can't put vaccinated people at risk. (shrug).


If it puts other willfully-un-vaccinated people at risk...well..so be it.


To top it off...it puts only those at risk IF the person catches/has it to begin with.


So - to summarize:

Unvaccinated people put only other Unvaccinated people at risk. That is, in my book, the way it should be.

If Kids get it because their parents didn't choose vaccination....big f'in deal. That's on the parents.

If Others get it because they didn't choose vaccination...big f'in deal. That's on them.

Make sense?

It does make sense, but you also have to remember kids dont get all their vaccinations at one time, each age group is suppose to get them at the appointed time, so if a 5th grader was vaccinated maybe the 4th grader that wasn't suppose to have it yet can catch it from him/her, just a thought.

I apologize I see this has been addressed already.

[revelarts]

The 'herd effect' of vaccinations protects those who truly can't take the vaccines: those who are allergic to part of the vaccine, those with immune system problems with issues like cancer.


I wonder where our country would be today with the idiots like Paul in charge, and no vaccines? ...

I think the herd effect we have here is the one of the MIND.
Jim, Rand Paul DID NOT say there should be "NO vaccines" do you have direct quote for that Jim?


No one here has said they think there should be NO vacancies what I've read so far is that people want to be free to make that decision based on facts. part of the problem is those who are PRO vaccines use the term like the whole block of meds are ALL the same.
when there are like 50+ different meds that are recommended.

As other have asked on various issues. Can anyone pro vaccine here GUARANTEE they are ALL COMPLETELY effective, have NO side effects... short or long term, know ALL of the effects in Infants, in pre teens, in adults, in the aged, on brains, organs, cancer, various populations.

the facts is you can't do it well for Vick's cough syrup.
Aspirins were recommend for ALL heart patients until it wasn't. vaccinces are not in some magical medical class.

There's NO reason why any parent should Assume the gov't has done all the research to satisfy THEM and take the phrama compnies word for it and get all the shots advised or any.

For the most part there's little doubt that some vaccines have been great... in the past. But the fact is there are conflicting studies on various vaccines and NO ONE has the last scientific word on the safety or effectiveness or long term effects. OR real comparisons between the vaccinated vs the non vaccinated.

media scare tactics and MSM bullying does not make the science here anymore than it does with climate change.
the facts are in FLUX to say the least. Various vaccines to various degrees has good or bad reps. Some are considered completely useless but harmless, some are considered dangerous, some are thought worth the risk. And no one can say they are -as a whole- completely risk free. If folks want to promote them at least get real and stop the blanket straw man assaults.

so OK below are somethings to consider, for those that want to THINK and not just ASSUME the BEST.
.......................

whooping cough
"In 1979 Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times." British Medical Journal 283:696-697, 1981

"For an individual child the risk is greater from the whooping cough vaccine than the disease."
Dr. Joanne Hatem, Medical Director, Vaccine National Information Center, Virginia

"In the USA in 1978, they mandated vaccination it resulted in a three fold increase in the reported incidence of whooping cough."
Viera Scheibner PhD showing graphs from Tokai Journal of Experimental Biology and Medicine, 1988

"Dutch scientists are struggling to identify the exact cause of an epidemic of whooping cough that has swept throughout the country despite vaccination rates as high as 96% ("despite" or because of?) Similar problems are being reported in Norway and Denmark."
British Medical Journal, 1998


Measles
"Among school age children, measles outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccine levels greater than 98%. These outbreaks have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that have not reported measles for years."
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 2/19/89

"In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article stating, “Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the U.S. are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children."
JAMA, 11/21/90

"The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons."
Review article: 50 REFS. Dept. of Internal Medicine, Mayo Vaccine Research Group, Mayo Clinic and Foundation, Rochester, MN./ Archives of Internal Medicine. 154 (16):1815-20, 8/22/94

"By the government's own admission, there has been a 41% failure rate in persons who were previously vaccinated against the measles virus."
Dr. Anthony Morris, 'Occurance of Measles in Previously Vaccinated Individuals.' 1979


Polio
"When WHO officials discovered a polio outbreak in Nigeria was sparked by the polio vaccine itself they assumed it would be easier to stop than the natural "wild" virus. They were wrong...The virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks."
'Polio Surge in Nigeria after Vaccine Virus Mutates' Associated Press, 8/14/09 (also see: Vaccines: Helping or Harming The Third World)


smallpox -in the old days-"How is it that smallpox is five times as likely to be fatal in the vaccinated as in the unvaccinated? How is it that in some of our most highly vaccinated towns, smallpox is rife whilst in some of our most poorly vaccinated towns such as Leicester, it is almost unknown? How is it that something like 80% of the cases admitted into the Metropolitan Board Smallpox Hospital have been vaccinated, whilst only 20% have not been vaccinated."
Dr. L. Parry, British Medical Journal, 1/21/28

FLU from webMD website
As flu (http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/default.htm) season approaches, a new analysis finds that the flu vaccine (http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-guide/fact-sheet-vaccines) provides only moderate protection against the flu, noting that such protection is greatly reduced or absent during some flu seasons. The analysis is published in The Lancet.
"While the vaccine does work, and we still recommend that it be used, it does not demonstrate the kind of efficacy that has often been reported," says study researcher Michael T. Osterholm, MD, of the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy.

Studies?
"Incredible as it sounds a controlled study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children has never been done in America for any vaccination... The only explanation for this is bias and political pressure... This means that vaccination is essentially a large scale experiment in our nation's children."
Dr. Philip Incao MD Hepatitis B Vaccine Testimony, 1999


"Incredible as it sounds a controlled study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children has never been done in America for any vaccination... The only explanation for this is bias and political pressure... This means that vaccination is essentially a large scale experiment in our nation's children."
Dr. Philip Incao MD Hepatitis B Vaccine Testimony, 1999
......


So with these things in mind as well a a LOT more do we get to ASK if vaccines are the only way to go?
Or is it just idiotic to question the majority generalized assertions that EVERYONE should always get vaccines?
and those who question it should be INSTANTLY BLAMED for any outbreaks of disease anywhere.:rolleyes:

There wouldn't be as much of an issue if we could honestly make reasonable decisions based on all the facts available and it wasn't blasphemy to question the holy concept of vaccines.

[Kathianne]

A good round up:

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/201850/


FEBRUARY 3, 2015
RICHARD EPSTEIN: Measles: Misinformation Gone Viral. (http://www.hoover.org/research/measles-misinformation-gone-viral) “The resurgence of measles is largely attributable to the confluence of two separate factors. On the one side there is a strong, if unacknowledged, effort on the part of some people to free ride off the vaccination of others. . . . They receive the protection afforded by herd immunity, without subjecting their loved ones to the risks, however small, that vaccinations always present. The second factor that reduces vaccination levels is the spread, sometimes deliberate, of misinformation that overstates vaccination risks. This sentiment is often fueled by powerful suspicions that drug companies are greedy and governments corrupt. This entire episode was fueled by fraudulent studies published by Dr. Andrew Wakefield in 1998 in Lancet magazine, which twelve years later the journal eventually retracted, but only after much of the damage was done.”


Meanwhile, the New York Times, in a story by Jeremy W. Peters & Richard Perez-Pena, tries to spin this Whole Foods/Prius/Hipster issue (http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/201834/) into, of course, an attack on the GOP. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/us/politics/measles-proves-delicate-issue-to-gop-field.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share) Note that they quote Hillary as pro-vaccine today, but fail to note that it’s a flipflop from prior campaigns. (http://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/03/hillary-in-2015-vaccines-work/)


UPDATE: “Why don’t you trust the media?” they asked, as a story about fringe liberal anti-vaxxers is spun to attack Republicans. (https://twitter.com/FigDrewton/status/562628925776740352) Heh.


ANOTHER UPDATE: I’m pretty sure that Hillary’s poor record on this issue is why the press is working in unison to try to spin it as a “conservative” issue. Here’s a hint, though: Compare the vaccination rates in, say, West Virginia, with those in tony neighborhoods of California. (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/wealthy-la-schools-vaccination-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/)


MORE: Michael Walsh on the political project underway: The Democrat/Media Complex Attacks: Vaccinations Are the New Birth Control. (http://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2015/02/03/the-democratmedia-complex-attacks-vaccinations-are-the-new-birth-control/) And the Evil Republicans want your kids to dieeeeee!


Jenny McCarthy and RFK Jr. are not Tea Partiers, whatever the Times’ Democratic-Operatives-With-Bylines want people to believe. But if the GOP doesn’t counterattack on this, it will become established truth by November of 2016.


Counterattacks should include demanding immunizations for all illegal immigrants, and a check on vaccination status for welfare recipients. And liability for tony private schools that don’t require vaccination. . . .


STILL MORE: Flashback: Hillary’s 1993 Attack On Vaccine Manufacturers. (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/remember-hillary-clintons-vaccine-fiasco)


EVEN MORE: Hollywood Reporter: Vaccination rates are plummeting at top Hollywood schools, from Malibu to Beverly Hills, from John Thomas Dye to Turning Point, where affluent, educated parents are opting out in shocking numbers. (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/los-angeles-vaccination-rates/) With an interactive map.



FINALLY: Well, well. Obama’s budget cuts $50 million from a vaccine program for the underinsured. (http://fortune.com/2015/02/02/obamas-budget-cuts-50-million-from-a-vaccine-program-for-the-underinsured/)

[gottago]

I wonder where our country would be today with the idiots like Paul in charge, and no vaccines? A lot more dead and unhealthy folks, that's for sure. Not to mention the endless $$$ that it costs when outbreaks occur to the idiots that fail to vaccinate. No different than an idiot who goes to work or school with a flu and spreads it around to everyone else. I have no issue with people making their own decisions, but then keep these kids out of the schools - like all the schools up this way do, bar perhaps a private school. No vaccines, no entry to school - EXACTLY how it should be, and I'm glad they enforce that, as obviously some would stick their kids into these environments not knowing nor caring whether or not they are potentially spreading something.

Do you believe that school is the only place someone may be exposed to various diseases?

So, if a parent doesn't want their child vaccinate, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes that support the school system. Right?

[jimnyc]

Do you believe that school is the only place someone may be exposed to various diseases?

So, if a parent doesn't want their child vaccinate, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes that support the school system. Right?

I paid taxes towards the school system without having a child. Now my son goes to private school, and I still pay taxes towards the local school system. If you don't want to use a school, and don't want to pay taxes in that locale, lobby to have laws changed.

[Nukeman]

Why would I need to show proof of anything I'm not arguing? My point above was: Companies/Govt should Ensure safety of drugs; not the other way around - people shouldn't have to prove anything. . Uh they do Darin its called the FDA!!!! Drugs are tested for efficacy and dangers for YEARS before they ever make it to market....


I'm saying...LIBERTY should dictate. Parental decisions should be the land of the law. Seriously have you seen the type of people that have kids??? Mouth breathing Mtn Dew swigging neanderthals that cant put a coherent sentence together let alone make a life or death decision for "their" children and others!!


Nobody with vaccinated kids has a valid worry; nobody who is vaccinated should worry. Gotta say bullshit on this one to D. 4 types of people out there 1. vaccinated and sticks, 2. vaccinated and doesn't ever take( about 3 % of the population) 3. Too young to receive, and 4. Immuno-compromised with other conditions such as cancer.


There's a case IF a person was infected they could pass that to another non-infected soul; well...Got it. doesn't matter. Not worth the Govt mandating vaccination because the gov't generally is f'd up. It's akin to if the govt decided to tell us how to give our money to charity. Oh yeah...they already do that. Okay - it's like if the Govt decided to take 50% of what I leave to my kids; my estate after I die - for the good of the nation. Shit. They do that too
Although I agree with the over reaching of the govt I must say I disagree with your premise on vaccinations, I can agree its up to you and I also can say if you are willing to risk your children's lives and those of the people in category 3 and 4 listed above I should have the right to DENY you admittance to any and all public places where you can and will infect others!!!!!!!!!

Do you believe that school is the only place someone may be exposed to various diseases? WRONG ANY public place they can be infected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So, if a parent doesn't want their child vaccinate, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes that support the school system. Right?NOPE their choice much like a parents choice to send to private school or home school, doesn't change their community responsibility (my gosh I sound like a bleeding heart liberal there)

[revelarts]

A good round up:

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/201850/


Hover institute Does some good work sometimes.
but pointing out that vaccine doubting are POLITICALLY LEFT is something that's really here nor there.
the science and -as has been pointed out several times- Parental rights are what should have the day.
I'm SHOCKED that those on the right want the Gov't to FORCE people to medicate... or else. (not really shocked)

There's going to be a label for those with questions soon "Vaccine Deniers" "anti-vaxers" or some such to stop people from thinking. along with "idiots" and "fake erudite" "mouth breathers"
all those names shed a lot of scientific light on the issue and are i'm sure winning hearts and minds. trying to Shame people into vaccines.:laugh:


the founders discussed medical freedom as an amendment I wish they had included it.


I'll just note something i noted before and a NEW bit.




The recent outbreaks of measles in Canada and the United States came as a shock to many public health experts. But not to Dr. Gregory Poland, one of the world's most admired and most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology.The measles vaccine (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/anti-therapeutic-action/vaccination-measles) has failed, he explained two years ago in a prescient paper, "The re-emergence of measles in developed countries (http://www.edwardjennersociety.org/wp-content/uploads/The-re-emergence-of-measles1.pdf)." In that paper, he warned that due to factors that most haven't noticed, measles has come back to be a serious public health threat. Thankfully, in that paper and elsewhere he also spelled out in no-nonsense fashion what now needs to be done.
Dr. Poland is no vaccine denier. Not only is he among the harshest and most outspoken critics of the "irrationality of the antivaccinationists," he is also one of the strongest proponents for vaccines and the good that they can do. As Professor of Medicine and founder and leader of the Mayo Clinic's Vaccine Research Group, one of the world's largest vaccine research organizations; as editor-in-chief of the peer-reviewed scientific journal,Vaccine; as recipient of numerous awards; as chair of vaccine data monitoring committees for pharmaceutical giant Merck; as patent holder in various vaccines processes; as someone who enjoys special employee status with the Centers for Disease Control and the U.S. Department of Defense and as someone who has sat on every federal committee (http://www.mayo.edu/research/discoverys-edge/defense-vaccines) that has dealt with vaccines, no one can accuse him of seeing vaccines from a narrow perspective.
And he sees the need for a major rethink, after concluding that the current measles vaccine is unlikely to ever live up to the job expected of it:
"Outbreaks are occurring even in highly developed countries where vaccine access, public health infrastructure, and health literacy are not significant issues. This is unexpected and a worrisome harbinger -- measles outbreaks are occurring where they are least expected," he wrote in his 2012 paper, listing the "surprising numbers of cases occurring in persons who previously received one or even two documented doses of measles-containing vaccine."
During the 1989-1991 U.S. outbreaks, 20 per cent to 40 per cent of those affected had received one to two doses. In a 2011 outbreak in Canada, "over 50 per cent of the 98 individuals had received two doses of measles vaccine."
Dr. Poland noted 15 U.S. outbreaks between 2005 and 2011 and 33 in Europe in 2011 alone, involving more than 30,000 known cases. Meanwhile, the "UK has declared measles once again endemic ... such outbreaks result from both failure to vaccinate, and vaccine failure."
People's failure to get vaccinated is deplorable, Dr. Poland often stresses. But the more fundamental problem stems from the vaccine being less effective in real life than predicted, with a too-high failure rate -- between 2 per cent and 10 per cent do not develop expected antibodies after receiving the recommended two shots. Because different people have different genetic makeups, the vaccine is simply a dud in many, failing to provide the protection they think they've acquired.....


http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/im-...nt-outbreaks-1 (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/im-no-anti-vaxxer-measles-vaccine-cant-prevent-outbreaks-1)


Just as a personal note,

My little brother got the measles when he was around 2 years old. He had been vaccinated, my mom was a nurse and did everything by the book. He was quarantined in the hospital until he recovered. Thankfully with no issues.

the rates of Measles has been much higher but the death rate could honestly be questioned dropping for reasons other than vaccines. see chart below.




http://www.everythingbirthblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/measles-deaths-decline.jpg





"....as early as 1932, doctors (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2521770/pdf/brmedj07409-0012.pdf) began using cod-liver oil (high in vitamin A) to treat measles and ended up lowering the mortality rate significantly. In 1990, the New England Journal of Medicine confirmed that vitamin A supplements significantly reduce measles complications and death rates. It would be interesting to know what kind of impact essential oils such as oil of oregano with antiviral qualities...."

http://vaxtruth.org/2012/01/measles-perspective/

look the vaccine was a MIRACLE!!!! right? maybe? no?
Can we talk or is the above Information just to be IGNORED?
Are you a fool to question the effectiveness or CONSIDER alternatives?

honest answers

[gabosaurus]

Do you believe that school is the only place someone may be exposed to various diseases?

So, if a parent doesn't want their child vaccinate, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes that support the school system. Right?

If I don't want my taxes to go to the military, can I stop paying taxes? :rolleyes:
Parents have the right to not vaccinate their children. It falls under the category of extreme stupidity. These are often the same people who don't believe in medical care. They believe that God will keep their children alive and healthy through divine intervention.

If you want to be a member of some bizarre non-vaccination cult, cool. Find a commune someplace with other like stupid people and keep to yourselves.

[Kathianne]

What Rev is discussing. Herd immunity though helps the 1% that is resistant to the vaccine. It also helps those that CANNOT be immunized. The flakes that choose not to immunize their kids are creating the gap that breaks down the herd immunity.

To a great degree those choosing not to immunize are the 'very educated' and likely (not able to prove) undocumented illegal aliens and their offspring.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/whos-risk-measles-maybe-think/



...Among the 51 measles cases linked directly to Disneyland, six of the people had received their measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.It should come as little surprise when the unvaccinated get sick with the measles. As viruses go, this one packs a mighty punch. Nine of out 10 unvaccinated people exposed to the measles virus will get the measles. That’s a whopping 90 percent.


But why hadn’t the vaccine protected these six people who had been vaccinated?


Here’s the thing. The MMR vaccine is very effective, but it’s not 100 percent preventative. Some people who get the vaccine are still at risk of contracting the disease. Large numbers of vaccinated people act as a firewall that prevent the disease from spreading to those who are vulnerable. The vaccinated protect the unvaccinated. That’s known as “herd immunity.” But as more people opt not to get vaccinated, or not to get their children vaccinated, the virus has more portals to creep through, more people to infect. And those people sneeze and cough, releasing the virus into the air, and that fuels the spread of the disease.


Some parents opt out of the MMR vaccine, often due to thoroughly discredited studies that link it to autism. Simply put, if everyone got the vaccine, the virus would have nowhere to go. The unvaccinated keep the measles alive.


But let’s back up. The MMR vaccine works by introducing tiny live amounts of the three viruses — measles, mumps and rubella — to provoke an immune response in the body that serves as a lifelong protective shield. It comes in two doses. Typically the first is administered at 12 months and the second at 4 or 5 years old. The first dose provides 95 percent protection. But 5 percent of patients have immune systems that don’t respond to these antibodies. The second kindergarten-age dose bolsters the coverage to 99 percent.

“But you still have 1 percent of people who have two doses of the vaccine who we call non-responders,” Patsy Stinchfield, director of Infection Prevention and Control and the Children’s Immunization Project at Children’s Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota.

...

[gabosaurus]

Looking for the "all natural" way of life? There's nothing more natural than dying of measles.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/anti-vaxxers-vaccination-nature

[Kathianne]

Looking for the "all natural" way of life? There's nothing more natural than dying of measles.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/anti-vaxxers-vaccination-nature

From Gabby's posted link:


...I believe that it is good to be sceptical of massive, opaque government agencies and the way that they exploit people’s innate fears in order to funnel profits to pharmaceutical giants (and the diet industry, and defence contractors, and banks, and oil companies, and on and on and on). However, I have never been so doggedly suspicious of the government’s canoodling with big business that it seemed worth letting an infant baby go blind, develop seizures and mental degeneration, and die of
measles-induced panencephalitis (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/23/parent-protect-kids-measles-vaccines-not-disney).<iframe id="google_ads_iframe_/59666047/theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/ng_1" name="google_ads_iframe_/59666047/theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/ng_1" width="300" height="250" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif; font-size: medium; line-height: 24px; text-align: center; border-width: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; background-color: transparent;"></iframe>





...

Yeah, 'responsible idiot parents' with multiple degrees.

:rolleyes:

[darin]

Uh they do Darin its called the FDA!!!! Drugs are tested for efficacy and dangers for YEARS before they ever make it to market....

That doesn't stop anything bro. Follow the dollars. If there's a risk involved, however slight, the choice should be solely upon the parents. Vaccines CAN cause reactions in children. Doesn't matter if it's good for the whole nation, vaccines CAN cause terrible reactions and even death in kids. Just irresponsible to claim 100% safety. A recent study in China showed adverse drug reactions in kids were caused by, in 42% of cases, by vaccines. Is that study valid? I dunno. But it brings a question: Can the Government decide the risk is so small as to force parents into giving it to their kids? Read it yourself. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3933652/



Seriously have you seen the type of people that have kids??? Mouth breathing Mtn Dew swigging neanderthals that cant put a coherent sentence together let alone make a life or death decision for "their" children and others!!

Sucks, doesn't it.



Gotta say bullshit on this one to D. 4 types of people out there 1. vaccinated and sticks, 2. vaccinated and doesn't ever take( about 3 % of the population) 3. Too young to receive, and 4. Immuno-compromised with other conditions such as cancer.

How does that differ from what I wrote? Nobody who has the vaccine should worry about catching it. Nobody who decides to not-take it should worry.




Although I agree with the over reaching of the govt I must say I disagree with your premise on vaccinations, I can agree its up to you and I also can say if you are willing to risk your children's lives and those of the people in category 3 and 4 listed above I should have the right to DENY you admittance to any and all public places where you can and will infect others!!!!!!!!!

Of course I'm not worried about risking my kids because my kids' lives are NOT at risk because they are vaccinated. Category 3 and 4 folks need to be extra careful.


WRONG ANY public place they can be infected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was my question wrong? do you know my doctor - after reportedly speaking with CDC - suggested I avoid any and all further vaccinations? I'm unsure what my childhood vaccinations were, but say they build an HIV vaccine. Should I get it and risk death, or take reasonable precautions? It's like peanut allergies - should all of society bannish peanuts for the few who are at risk? Should the peanut allergy folks be required to live in a bubble because of their affliction? I'm saying - do you support requiring a govt-mandated vaccine for people to simply leave their house?



NOPE their choice much like a parents choice to send to private school or home school, doesn't change their community responsibility (my gosh I sound like a bleeding heart liberal there)

My responsibility to my family is greater than that to my community.
I bet you're gonna start driving a prius and move to San Fransisco, buddy. :)

:beers:

[jimnyc]

Of course I'm not worried about risking my kids because my kids' lives are NOT at risk because they are vaccinated.


My responsibility to my family is greater than that to my community.

Which is exactly why you chose to have them vaccinated, to protect them, and because it's necessary for schooling and such.

Also, no one ever addressed the money. With the $$$$$ that the health issues costs for outbreaks and such from non-vaccinated - WHO is paying for it? Are the parents and those ill paying for these things 100%? Including care, isolation, medication, cleanup...? Do you think anyone else should have to pay a single penny towards their care if they refuse to take precautions that could have prevented the illness?

[jimnyc]

I have a question.

In all this "push" to have our kids vaccinated, just how many of the illegals are up to date on their shots?

Likely none, and I doubt those in charge today are even thinking of that, much too busy getting them their drivers licenses. :(

But that's a good one you bring up. Folks coming to live here should have like 30-60 days to prove or get fully immunized so that they don't turn into little walking incubators that like to also eat up our welfare services (and no, not those welfare eaters, not the lifer black folks that know nothing else...).

[darin]

Which is exactly why you chose to have them vaccinated, to protect them, and because it's necessary for schooling and such.

Right - MY choice. I weighed the evidence and went with it. Was not forced upon me by the government.



Also, no one ever addressed the money. With the $$$$$ that the health issues costs for outbreaks and such from non-vaccinated - WHO is paying for it? Are the parents and those ill paying for these things 100%? Including care, isolation, medication, cleanup...? Do you think anyone else should have to pay a single penny towards their care if they refuse to take precautions that could have prevented the illness?

of course not. Nobody is EVER refused basic health care for inability to pay; conversely, if that bankrupts people that's fine.

[jimnyc]

Right - MY choice. I weighed the evidence and went with it. Was not forced upon me by the government.

Of course, it's called common sense. You wanted your kids to stay healthy, and be a part of the rest of society that works together to prevent the spread of diseases/illnesses.


of course not. Nobody is EVER refused basic health care for inability to pay; conversely, if that bankrupts people that's fine.

Not true at all, hospitals CAN refuse basic treatment. The ONLY thing they "must" treat are emergencies. If you walk into a hospital with a general flu, headache, anxiety - and don't have insurance, they CAN very well tell you that they cannot treat you. And often, they will go to community based hospitals that will in fact cover these folks. Now, WHO do you think ultimately ends up paying for the services if the patient cannot? Someone still has to fork over the dough, or take a loss. And it's possible it's because someone refused to get vaccinated.

[jimnyc]

One good thing from this thread - I don't see anyone trying to defend the old idiot and his organization claiming that it was the USA responsible for the Charlie Hedbo attacks. Paul needs to be euthanized like an old horse.

[darin]

Of course, it's called common sense. You wanted your kids to stay healthy, and be a part of the rest of society that works together to prevent the spread of diseases/illnesses.

But if i thought the vaccines would HARM my kids like they harm ME? I'd be in jail by now for refusing what some of you suggest is GOOD.




Not true at all, hospitals CAN refuse basic treatment. The ONLY thing they "must" treat are emergencies. If you walk into a hospital with a general flu, headache, anxiety - and don't have insurance, they CAN very well tell you that they cannot treat you. And often, they will go to community based hospitals that will in fact cover these folks. Now, WHO do you think ultimately ends up paying for the services if the patient cannot? Someone still has to fork over the dough, or take a loss. And it's possible it's because someone refused to get vaccinated.

That's what I meant. When it comes to things like "OMG I'm gonna DIE" hospitals can't refuse; but we're getting into 'who is the cause for high health care costs' argument (short answer: WE are. The people).

[jimnyc]

But if i thought the vaccines would HARM my kids like they harm ME? I'd be in jail by now for refusing what some of you suggest is GOOD.

Literally millions of lives have been saved by vaccines over the years. If everyone refused, we would be back where we were prior to vaccines, with the mortality rate falling through the floor and people dying needlessly.

And no, you wouldn't be in jail for refusing, who stated as much? Vaccines are not mandatory, just rightfully mandatory if you plan on doing certain things that can potentially harm others. I have no issue if someone wants to needlessly place their children in harms way, that's their right - but it's my right and others right to not be placed in harms way due to others. And yes, even the vaccinated are in harms way, as they can still potentially get illnesses and diseases from those refusing.

If it's NOT good as you are implying - you would knowingly send your kids into a school with 95% of the kids being not-vaccinated and take chances with the kids, and just hope that the vaccines protect them, and that they aren't part of the percentage that catch the illnesses from those refusing? If you have a Mom with cancer, would you feel comfortable allowing her to go anywhere at all? Or would she need to be in a hospital room indefinitely? What if you had a child with immune deficiency? He/she is shit out of luck, and such parents should deal with it themselves and keep these kids at home indefinitely, so as not to put others that refuse to vaccinate out of their ways?

I agree with you, family comes first, always will. But such a family should be ostracized from any community and left to deal with the consequences all by themselves so as not to put others in harms way. One cannot put family first - and then flip their noses at community responsibility.

[gottago]

If I don't want my taxes to go to the military, can I stop paying taxes? :rolleyes:
Parents have the right to not vaccinate their children. It falls under the category of extreme stupidity. These are often the same people who don't believe in medical care. They believe that God will keep their children alive and healthy through divine intervention.

If you want to be a member of some bizarre non-vaccination cult, cool. Find a commune someplace with other like stupid people and keep to yourselves.

Certainly you can stop paying taxes. According to Harry Reid, they are voluntary. ;)

But you missed the point. If everyone in the school is vaccinated, then the people who are not vaccinated should not be able to infect them, eh?

[jimnyc]

Certainly you can stop paying taxes. According to Harry Reid, they are voluntary. ;)

But you missed the point. If everyone in the school is vaccinated, then the people who are not vaccinated should not be able to infect them, eh?

People CAN get sick from those not vaccinated, even if vaccinated themselves. For some folks it doesn't take. Those with immune deficiency can still get things from those who refuse to vaccinate. Cancer patients, for example, would be much more at risk. It's not as easy as you're writing.

[darin]

Literally millions of lives have been saved by vaccines over the years. If everyone refused, we would be back where we were prior to vaccines, with the mortality rate falling through the floor and people dying needlessly.

Prove it. Impossible to prove. What about anyone dying BECAUSE of the vaccines? Do they matter?

Who decides?




And no, you wouldn't be in jail for refusing, who stated as much? Vaccines are not mandatory, just rightfully mandatory if you plan on doing certain things that can potentially harm others. I have no issue if someone wants to needlessly place their children in harms way, that's their right - but it's my right and others right to not be placed in harms way due to others. And yes, even the vaccinated are in harms way, as they can still potentially get illnesses and diseases from those refusing.

Except when they are the WRONG choice for my body; and the bodies of those I am abliged to protect. I will not place MY kids in what could be GRAVE danger for the SLIGHTLY reduced risks of others. Vaccines included. IF They posed a threat to my kids, I would not have them vaccinated.



If it's NOT good as you are implying - you would knowingly send your kids into a school with 95% of the kids being not-vaccinated and take chances with the kids, and just hope that the vaccines protect them, and that they aren't part of the percentage that catch the illnesses from those refusing? If you have a Mom with cancer, would you feel comfortable allowing her to go anywhere at all? Or would she need to be in a hospital room indefinitely? What if you had a child with immune deficiency? He/she is shit out of luck, and such parents should deal with it themselves and keep these kids at home indefinitely, so as not to put others that refuse to vaccinate out of their ways?

None of that matters if I decide the vaccinations are NOT right for me or my kids.



I agree with you, family comes first, always will. But such a family should be ostracized from any community and left to deal with the consequences all by themselves so as not to put others in harms way. One cannot put family first - and then flip their noses at community responsibility.

That's fine. That's what choice MEANS. When people choose to live a homosexual lifestyle they choose the consequence of death, violence, depression, etc. Whatever. That's a choice. I'm glad we still have it.

[jimnyc]

None of that matters if I decide the vaccinations are NOT right for me or my kids.

And yet that's not the case. Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? Odd that you won't answer any of the questions. Sounds like you acted 100% accordingly and within what I and other are stating, but are arguing the opposite.

[darin]

And yet that's not the case. Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? Odd that you won't answer any of the questions. Sounds like you acted 100% accordingly and within what I and other are stating, but are arguing the opposite.

I try to answer the questions that are closesly-related to the point. You're asking some questions I am not arguing for or against.


It boils down to this: When YOU are comfortable with bureaucrats deciding what "medicine" you MUST put into the body of your kids you have given up your desire to live free at least in part but that part is pretty important. If the country tries to impose that upon me? I'll live as an outlaw, but free. Free-er.

[jimnyc]

A lot of this reminds me of folks that don't believe in medicine, and think the right course to healing is through prayer. I don't mean that to offend, but just odd that folks want rights to do things that lead to so much more potential for harm to their children. Millions of lives saved, and people need to find the remotest of articles to show people being killed and/or harmed on any scale at all from vaccines.

[jimnyc]

I try to answer the questions that are closesly-related to the point. You're asking some questions I am not arguing for or against.


It boils down to this: When YOU are comfortable with bureaucrats deciding what "medicine" you MUST put into the body of your kids you have given up your desire to live free at least in part but that part is pretty important. If the country tries to impose that upon me? I'll live as an outlaw, but free. Free-er.

They also decided that child abuse isn't good for us to do with our kids, and feeding them harmful things that have been taken off the market, and deciding what type of medicine one will get for even regular medical care. They are involved in protecting children in tons and tons of aspects of our lives. Things that are for good that otherwise some refuse their children.

Do you have an issue with them regulating laws around how a child is treated by their parents? Or regular medicines at a doctors office or hospital? Are these bad things, that they want to protect? Or should things like the FDA and other oversights be banned?

[darin]

They also decided that child abuse isn't good for us to do with our kids, and feeding them harmful things that have been taken off the market, and deciding what type of medicine one will get for even regular medical care. They are involved in protecting children in tons and tons of aspects of our lives.

That's a strawman argument and unrelated to the point.




Do you have an issue with them regulating laws around how a child is treated by their parents? Or regular medicines at a doctors office or hospital? Are these bad things, that they want to protect? Or should things like the FDA and other oversights be banned?

I have an issue with the Government deciding (for now) something is SO GOOD it MUST be mandatory! Because the govt is WRONG. A lot. Probably now more than ever. No laws protect anyone; laws are about punishment of violators after the fact. For now.

And yes - FDA? Get rid of it. Or trim it down by 80%?

[gottago]

People CAN get sick from those not vaccinated, even if vaccinated themselves. For some folks it doesn't take. Those with immune deficiency can still get things from those who refuse to vaccinate. Cancer patients, for example, would be much more at risk. It's not as easy as you're writing.

And people can get sick from the vaccines. Some vaccines can actually reduced your immunity to other viruses.

It is, as with most things, a matter of personal choice. In the case of minors, the parents choice.

You start removing the right of choice here, where do you draw the line?

[jimnyc]

That's a strawman argument and unrelated to the point.

So you are arguing just for the sake and don't want to have a discussion. Sometimes questions are difficult AND related and on point.

strawman, logical fallacy and all kinds of other terms - just fancy ways of avoiding questions. If they weren't worthy of asking, I wouldn't have asked.

[jimnyc]

And people can get sick from the vaccines. Some vaccines can actually reduced your immunity to other viruses.

It is, as with most things, a matter of personal choice. In the case of minors, the parents choice.

You start removing the right of choice here, where do you draw the line?

Parents are responsible for the well being of a child. While you're drawing lines, just refuse other medical care and preventive medicine for a child, correct? Where is the line drawn in how far one can go in denying care and preventive medicine to a minor?

But I'll agree to disagree. If some want to take chances and play russian roulette with their kids lives and place others at risk, so be it. I'm just happy we live in a place where the states can determine which of the folks are allowed in schools and such. A lot of parents get to that point and then get the kids updated in order to go to school - or they are shit out of luck and can pay to go to a private school - in which most of them now also require such health records.

[DLT]

He's going to be his Dad in a matter of years, you watch. And I see the 'ol bugger is still as stupid as ever!!

---

On Monday, likely 2016 presidential candidate Rand Paul stuck his foot in his mouth on, of all issues, vaccinations. Despite zero credible evidence that vaccines cause autism, Paul said that he'd heard of "many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines."

This is pretty shocking stuff, even on a day when other politicians were busy saying embarrassing things about vaccines. But it tells us a lot about the biggest hurdle to Paul if he decides he wants to win the 2016 Republican primary — Rand Paul.

Paul's Achilles heel is his reputation in the Republican Party as an undisciplined ideologue, a candidate more concerned with libertarian purity than winning national elections. So on days like Tuesday, when he pops off on TV, it seems like he can't help himself from risking confirming the GOP's worst fears about him.

If he decides to get into the 2016 race, he will need to win over party elites. Some go so far as to say he has to win the "invisible primary," the name political scientists have given to the process by which elites inside the GOP — activists, donors, local party officials, and the like — choose who to support in the eventual race.

Paul's political project is incredibly ambitious. He needs to sell his vision of a restrained foreign policy and a minimally intrusive federal government to a party that traditionally believes in aggressive interventionism abroad and strict Christian morality at home. That means Paul already faces an uphill battle among really important constituencies inside the GOP.

To make matters worse, Paul has a dad problem. His father, former Congressman Ron Paul, wasn't just a fairly purist libertarian: he also has a reputation for kookiness and troubling extremism. During the elder Paul's 2008 and 2012 runs for the presidency, journalists discovered a number of shockingly racist newsletters published under Paul's byline. More recently, the Ron Paul Institute (his post-Congress project) posted an article suggesting the Charlie Hebdo shootings may have been a secret US government plot. This history has alienated Ron Paul from mainstream libertarian institutions like the Cato Institute, which emphatically do not share his views on these topics.

The younger Paul not only needs to convince skeptical Republican elites to buy his worldview — which is inspired by the same school of thought as his father's — but he also has to get distance between himself, his father, and his father's ties to outright conspiracy theorists. Even a whiff of that kind of weirdness could turn off even sympathetic Republican elites.

Rest here - http://www.vox.com/2015/2/3/7966975/rand-paul-vaccine

I can't stand either one of em. And Rand is a chip off the ole loon, IMO.

[Bilgerat]

The largest U.S. measles outbreak in recent history isn't the one that started in December at Disneyland. It happened months earlier in Ohio's Amish country, where 383 people fell ill after unvaccinated Amish missionaries traveled to the Philippines and returned with the virus.

The Ohio episode drew far less attention, even though the number of cases was almost four times that of the Southern California outbreak, because it seemed to pose little threat outside close-knit religious communities.

The Disneyland outbreak has already spread well beyond the theme parks that attract tens of thousands of visitors from around the globe, who could then return home with the virus. Disease investigators for weeks raced to identify measles-stricken patients, track down potential contacts and quarantine them if necessary.

[jimnyc]

Coincidentally came out yesterday...

5 myths surrounding vaccines -- and the reality

(CNN)With dozens of measles cases popping up in the United States, Americans are buzzing about vaccines once more -- and some old fearful myths are resurfacing.

These myths may be keeping parents from protecting their children from dangerous diseases, when there's every reason to get them vaccinated.

Vaccines prevents six million deaths worldwide every year, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta writes.

And there's basically no reason not to get them. Only one in a million children has a serious adverse reaction.

Those are great odds. You're 100 times more likely to get struck by lightning than have an allergic reaction to a vaccine, Gupta says. Taking aspirin, for example, is much more likely to cause brain bleeding.

Still, five nail-biting notions continue to scare away people from the protection they need.

1. THEY CAUSE AUTISM

The fear:

This is the big one.

This was a prevalent myth that grew out of a now-discredited study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, in which Dr. Andrew Wakefield linked autism and childhood vaccines.

The 1998 study was embraced by parents of autistic children, who pointed out that autism rates were going up as the occurrence of measles, mumps and rubella drastically decreased. The anti-vaccine movement gained traction when Jenny McCarthy and other celebrities joined the cause.

Researchers criticized Wakefield, but the paper panicked many parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children getting the vaccine that prevents measles, mumps and rubella in Britain and a smaller decrease in the United States.

The fact:

Most of Wakefield's co-authors withdrew their names from the study in 2004 after learning he had had been paid by a law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers.

The same year, the Institute of Medicine reviewed evidence from the US, Denmark, Sweden, and the UK and found no connection between vaccines and autism.

Around 2010, another British medical journal concluded Wakefield's study misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of his study.

The Lancet retracted Wakefield's paper in 2010. He lost his medical license.

2. THEY CONTAIN POISON

The fear:

Vaccines are laced with mercury that's poisoning our children and causing autism.

In the 1930s, some vaccine makers used a preservative called Thimerosal, which contained a very low concentration of a mercury compound.

It's there to prevent the growth of potentially dangerous bacteria and fungus.

The fact:

First of all, children are hardly getting Thimerosal in vaccines anymore. In 2001, the FDA stopped issuing licenses for children's vaccines containing it. Add to that, the fact that most of all routine vaccines for children under 6 years of age don't have it.

A trace amount is in still used some children's flu vaccines, says the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Since the preservative has been used for decades and still is in adult vaccines, there have been many studies and none of them show a correlation with autism or other serious side effects, the FDA says.

As for autism, since the time Thimerosal was removed from children's vaccines, the percentage of diagnosed autism cases happens to have shot up.

If Thimerosal were the cause, this wouldn't make sense.

3. THEY'RE PROFIT DRIVERS

The fear:

Doctors and insurance companies are promoting vaccination to drive profits.

The fact:

Some insurers pay the cost of vaccinations to prevent having to pay more later, when a patient gets sick.

A 2009 study found that up to a third of doctors actually lose money when giving vaccines.

4. THEY HAVE TOO MANY ANTIGENS

The fear:

Children are getting more vaccines than they used to, and it's pumping their bodies full of antigens -- the bits of vaccine that cause the body to build resistance. Taken together they're too much for a child to handle.

The fact:

Though there are more vaccines, patients are inoculated today with far fewer antigens than 30 years ago, Dr. Gupta says. In the 1980's, people received about 3,000 antigens total, as compared to 150 today.

Spreading the vaccines out over a long period of time for fear a child may be getting too high of a cumulative dose of antigens only leaves children more exposed and vulnerable to disease.

And for autism: As with Thimerosal, autism diagnoses shot up around the time antigens were being reduced in vaccines.

5. THE DISEASES ARE EXTINCT

The fear:

It's better to avoid vaccines, because children don't need them. The diseases they help prevent are long gone, and if a child gets one anyway, it will just run its course.

The fact:

That spate of highly contagious measles breaking out right now? Unvaccinated children got it at Disneyland and spread it to other kids who aren't inoculated.

And 2014 was a big year for measles cases with 644 in the United States.

It's not harmless. It can lead to pneumonia, lifelong brain damage, and deafness, and death.

Globally, it's still a major killer of children, the World Health Organization says.

Between 2001 and 2013, 28% of children younger than 5 years of age with measles had to be hospitalized in the United States, the CDC says.

Before the measles vaccine was introduced in the 1960s, there were between 3 to 4 million cases a year, resulting in 400 to 500 U.S. deaths, the CDC says.

Measles vaccination in this country has reduced the rate of infection in the population by 99% when compared to times when no vaccine was available.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/us/5-vaccine-myths/index.html

[darin]

So you are arguing just for the sake and don't want to have a discussion. Sometimes questions are difficult AND related and on point.

strawman, logical fallacy and all kinds of other terms - just fancy ways of avoiding questions. If they weren't worthy of asking, I wouldn't have asked.

whoa now. You can't do that. it's dishonest to make unrelated arguments in an attempt to link unrelated topics. I answer your questions related to 'Should parents be forced into medicating their kids' - and extended that to 'should PEOPLE be force-medicated based on the gov't decision the forced meds are 'for teh greater good'. You can't try to suck me into a topic I'm not discussing then throw THAT last reply at me when I refused to follow you down the rabbit hole.

[jimnyc]

Vaccines prevents six million deaths worldwide every year, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta writes.

And there's basically no reason not to get them. Only one in a million children has a serious adverse reaction.

If everyone took a stance and refused vaccines, where would we be today? If everyone refused vaccines stating they aren't going to put something in their children because the government says so, how many people die per year? If everyone agreed and refused, millions would die per year - millions. Odd that some would want to work against preventing 6 million deaths per year. :dunno:

[Perianne]

Dr. Ben Carson on vaccines:


I am glad to see that Carson has injected a dose of reason into the hysteria over vaccines:


Certain communicable diseases have been largely eradicated by immunization policies in this country and we should not allow those diseases to return by foregoing safe immunization programs, for philosophical, religious or other reasons when we have the means to eradicate them.



When it comes to childhood vaccinations, I think I am more inclined to listen to a pediatric neurosurgeon rather than an ophthalmologist.



http://spectator.org/blog/61695/ben-carson-injects-dose-reason-vaccine-discussion

[darin]

If everyone took a stance and refused vaccines, where would we be today?

Who knows. What if we were actually butterflies having a dream we are actual people?



If everyone refused vaccines stating they aren't going to put something in their children because the government says so, how many people die per year?

twelve? (shrug). Frankly, that's a logical fallacy to this argument too - because Nobody is refusing the vaccines "Because the government said they had to". And refusing the vaccines isn't even the point of this discussion. The point is....


CHOICE.



If everyone agreed and refused, millions would die per year - millions.

And if everyone agreed and got them maybe 10 kids would die every year.


I love you like a brother, Jim, but you're dead-wrong on this. This is about Liberty. Freedom. Even the freedom to die. Nothing less.

[jimnyc]

6 million dead per year. The government has a DUTY to help prevent mass scale death. They are not FORCING anyone to do anything, but putting restrictions on certain things if they don't voluntarily participate, and rightfully so. People have a right to kill themselves, I suppose, but have no right to take others with them.

[jimnyc]

Dr. Ben Carson on vaccines:

Certain communicable diseases have been largely eradicated by immunization policies in this country and we should not allow those diseases to return by foregoing safe immunization programs, for philosophical, religious or other reasons when we have the means to eradicate them.

And that's exactly how measles is making a return, because of folks who refuse to vaccinate. He just went up another notch in my book (but still not my choice yet).

[jimnyc]

This also reminds me of another Ron Paul discussion. As to "rights" that one should have, and what the government imposes (the law this time). Some believe Ron, and think drugs like heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, opium and other deadly drugs - should all be legal and the choice of a citizen as to whether or not they want to do certain drugs. Maybe folks should also be allowed to let their children do heroin, as it's their children and their choice.

[Perianne]

Someone posted something earlier about some doubting quack who had something negative to say about the smallpox vaccine. That is smallpox... the disease that has been totally eradicated from mankind, primarily by use of vaccines. To eradicate it, people were literally forced the vaccination for the betterment of mankind.

Smallpox was a continuing nightmare upon mankind. Thank goodness someone had the guts to force others to do what was necessary to eradicate it.


In the days before vaccination, it was said that smallpox was "a river that everyone had to cross".


The historical experiences also show how individual and national efforts were inadequate; smallpox could only be eradicated when the entire world resolved to join together to do so.



I understand DMP's argument about liberty, though. I simply don't agree with it.

http://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc1045.html

[jimnyc]

Anti-vaccine doctor Jack Wolfson goes silent

(CNN)He calls measles 'benign.' If you vaccinate your child, he calls you a bad mother. And he says our children "have the right" to get infections.

When Dr. Jack Wolfson speaks, jaws drop. But his fans applaud.

He has given a medical face to the anti-vaccine movement -- eagerly stepping in front of TV cameras to beat up on vaccines and make light of the dangerous diseases they help prevent.

During the recent upsurge of measles cases, he's been a frequent presence.

But this week, he's suddenly gone silent.

E-mails and phone calls went unanswered. And Wednesday, when a CNN news team showed up at his practice, someone called the police.

Confronted in the parking lot, Wolfson turned his back to the camera.

Why the about-face?

It may have something to do with the investigation that the Arizona Medical Board has opened against him.

Parents following advice like those Wolfson gives are at the core of the U.S. outbreak, which is infecting mostly unvaccinated children.

And some doctors have advocated that medical licenses be revoked for recommendations like his.

The board says it's received two complaints and is investigating. But it wouldn't disclose the nature of the complaints.

"Can we talk about the investigation?" CNN's Kyung Lah asked Wolfson Wednesday.

"I have no comment," he responded.

"Are you changing your opinion about vaccinations?" she asked.

He was silent.
...

His anti-vaccine stance stems from his views on putting chemicals in our bodies.

"What I am opposed to is that we are injecting chemicals into our children," Wolfson said, when he recently appeared on CNN's Erin Burnett OutFront. "This is aluminum, mercury, sometimes aborted fetal proteins. There's antibiotics in there."

Some of that's correct, the CDC has said in its list of vaccine ingredients. But it's not worth worrying about.

For example: A common aluminum compound found in many vaccines -- aluminum hydroxide -- is also the active ingredient in antacid tablets.

And some of it's wrong: Trace amounts of a mercury compound used in adult vaccines, is now absent from almost all pediatric formulas, the CDC has said.

And vaccines have proven very safe for decades. They save lives and preserve health, the CDC said.

Before a vaccine was introduced to prevent measles, the United States had up to four million cased per year, the CDC says. Thousands were left with serious impairment like deafness or permanent brain damage.

Up to 500 people died back then each year.

Wolfson has delivered some shocking statements during the current measles outbreak, which he approves of. Better to get the disease than the vaccine, he's said.

He called measles "benign." The fact that some people die is unfortunate but par for the course. "Bad things can happen to anybody. We can be in a car accident; we can be in a toaster fire," he said.

"We should be getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, these are the rights of our children to get it," he told the Arizona Republic.

It's nature's way of building resistance; vaccines are unnatural, he has said.

Wolfson would be willing to take the death of another parent's child into account to uphold the right not to vaccinate his own.

"I'm not going to sacrifice the wellbeing of my child. My child is pure," he said. "And I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/05/health/anti-vaccine-doctor-jack-wolfson/index.html

[darin]

6 million dead per year. The government has a DUTY to help prevent mass scale death. They are not FORCING anyone to do anything, but putting restrictions on certain things if they don't voluntarily participate, and rightfully so. People have a right to kill themselves, I suppose, but have no right to take others with them.

And since this topic is MANDATORY Gov't Ordered type vaccinations, it's nice to see you agree with me. People have the right to choose for themselves - and those under their legal control - whether or not to take the "medicine". That's a good thing.

There's little/no risk of 'taking other with them'. Much less risk than anything else we do everyday. As an aside I find it hypocritical for people to raise the flag of vaccinations-save-lives yet do not demand Automobiles be banned immediately - Cars; which pose a billion?times MORE risk to lives than anything else?

[jimnyc]

There's little/no risk of 'taking other with them'. Much less risk than anything else we do everyday. As an aside I find it hypocritical for people to raise the flag of vaccinations-save-lives yet do not demand Automobiles be banned immediately - Cars; which pose a billion?times MORE risk to lives than anything else?

Odd once again. Isn't this kinda like a strawman that you refused to respond to when I did so? Just sayin'!!

[darin]

Odd once again. Isn't this kinda like a strawman that you refused to respond to when I did so? Just sayin'!!

No....

it's an 'Aside'. It's a 'side comment'. It's a comment related only loosely and not a question requiring an answer or asked as if it supported the topic of conversation.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have a question.

In all this "push" to have our kids vaccinated, just how many of the illegals are up to date on their shots?

Over 90% of them are not and that doesn't concern these libs/dems at all...
This vaccination issue is trap set for the Republican potential Presidential candidates..
Notice how its hammered to them and not to Hillary , Warren or any other dem hopeful.
Even if they cite exactly what Hillary and the bambastard did in 2008 they'll be crucified in the media.
Its a no-win situation.
The focus should be on a damn dem president bringing millions of unvaccinated illegal immigrants but cleverly that's not what he slavish media dares to mention.
This media corruption, deception and slavish obedience to the dem party simply must be addressed by the American people or else we will get mote bambastard types and this nation will assuredly fall!

Its a trap, by the way its being addressed to hit the Republicans with.

Why isn't it pointed out how the stinking dem party brings in with their policies millions of these unvaccinated illegals!!-Tyr

[jimnyc]

These are the ones I worry about the most when others refuse to vaccinate. The babies, immune deficient and others with certain ailments, have a much higher chance of getting infected.

Five Infants From Palatine Daycare Center Diagnosed With Measles

CHICAGO (CBS) – Cook County and Illinois public health officials have begun investigating a cluster of measles cases linked to a daycare center in Palatine.

In a joint statement, the Illinois Department of Public Health and the Cook County Department of Public Health said the cluster includes five infants who have ties to KinderCare Learning Center, located at 929 E. Palatine Rd. in Palatine.

“We are focused on ensuring the continued health and safety of the rest of our center,” KinderCare operators said in a prepared statement. “We are following Public Health officials’ guidance and excluding unvaccinated children and staff.”

All five of the children are less than a year old, including four from the suburbs, and one from Chicago. Lab tests have confirmed measles cases in two of the children; the other three have been tentatively diagnosed with measles, but doctors were waiting for lab tests to confirm it.

All of the children are reported to be at home and doing OK.

“Individuals who are under the age of one or with certain clinical conditions cannot be vaccinated and are therefore at highest risk for measles. Residents are strongly encouraged to get vaccinated to protect themselves and the most vulnerable members of the community,” officials said.

Students, staff, and faculty at the daycare center have been notified, and anyone who hasn’t received a measles vaccination has been told to stay at home, and away from unvaccinated people for the next 21 days.

The nearby school district is also taking precautions because of the measles outbreak. Sixty-five kids who attend that KinderCare also go to Palatine’s Community Consolidated School District 15. They have all been vaccinated.

But about 200 other kids in the district have not. The district sent emails to parents saying they are working closely with health officials to keep children safe.

Officials said the source of the infection is unknown, and it’s unclear if the cases are linked to a measles case last month in the suburbs, or to the measles outbreak that has been linked to Disneyland.

Cook County health officials predict there will be more measles cases associated with the Palatine daycare center, as many as 10.

Dr. Rachel Rubin stressed that measles is a serious illness with potentially serious complications. Previously, she says there have only been 10 documented cases in Illinois in the last five years.

Symptoms of measles include fever, red and sore eyes, runny nose, cough, and rash. Measles can cause more severe health problems, including pneumonia, encephalitis, and death; it is transmitted by coughing and sneezing, and can survive in the air and on surfaces for up to two hours. People who have measles are contagious from four days before a rash starts, through four days afterward.

“This situation continues to underscore the importance of getting vaccinated. Vaccinations are the safest, most effective way to protect individuals from measles and other potentially dangerous communicable diseases,” officials said.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/five-infants-from-palatine-daycare-center-diagnosed-with-measles/

[sundaydriver]

I have a question.

In all this "push" to have our kids vaccinated, just how many of the illegals are up to date on their shots?


Over 90% of them are not and that doesn't concern these libs/dems at all...
Why isn't it pointed out how the stinking dem party brings in with their policies millions of these unvaccinated illegals!!-Tyr

If you ever bothered to look up facts, uhhh never mind facts would just interfere with the TRUTHS you conjure in your mind.

The TRUTH is that the four countries that most of the illegals are coming from have a vaccination rate
similar to the US or even higher. Here are word rates for measles vaccinations.

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A826

[revelarts]

idiots at 60 minutes reports

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMeU-818-YA

[revelarts]

He's going to be his Dad in a matter of years, you watch. And I see the 'ol bugger is still as stupid as ever!!

---

On Monday, likely 2016 presidential candidate Rand Paul stuck his foot in his mouth on, of all issues, vaccinations. Despite zero credible evidence that vaccines cause autism, Paul said that he'd heard of "many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines."

This is pretty shocking stuff, even on a day when other politicians were busy saying embarrassing things about vaccines. But it tells us a lot about the biggest hurdle to Paul if he decides he wants to win the 2016 Republican primary — Rand Paul.
....
Rest here - http://www.vox.com/2015/2/3/7966975/rand-paul-vaccine

Huff post
05/10/2011


High Rates of Autism Found in Federal Vaccine Injury Program: Study Says More Answers Needed
On Tuesday in Washington, members of the Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy (EBCALA), along with parents and children who received federal vaccine injury compensation, are having a press conference "to unveil an investigation linking vaccine injury to autism." For the past two decades, according to the group, "the federal government has publicly denied a vaccine-autism link, while at the same time its Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) has been awarding damages for vaccine injury to children with brain damage, seizures and autism." Their investigation, "based on public, verifiable government data, breaks new ground in the controversial vaccine-autism debate," and reports that "a substantial number of children compensated for vaccine injury also have autism -- the evidence suggests that autism is at least three times more prevalent among vaccine-injured children than among children in the general population."The following is a written Q&A conducted with EBCALA Directors:
Q) What is the Elizabeth Birt center, and who are the principal investigators on this project?
A) The Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy (EBCALA) is a nonprofit organization founded in 2008 to educate lawyers, advocates and parents about the legal challenges of autism (www.ebcala.org (http://www.ebcala.org/)). The authors of this study are EBCALA board members. Mary Holland, Robert Krakow and Lisa Colin are attorneys and Louis Conte is a law enforcement officer who served as lead investigator.
Q) What were the main findings of this investigation?
A) The investigation found 83 cases of autism associated with compensated cases of vaccine-induced brain injury. It found that autism is at least three times more prevalent among vaccine injured children than among children in the general U.S. population today....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/high-rates-of-autism-foun_b_859234.html


So the Federal Government awarded children's families compensation for autism damage from vacinces.

so I guess there are "credible studies"


..."Vaccines are designed not to infect but to stimulate the immune system into making a response, so it would not be surprising if they were implicated in auto-immune disorders," Todd says. "Even if the condition was underlying, vaccines may have materially affected its onset."The vaccine hypothesis was bolstered recently by a five-year study in monkeys who were given the same vaccinations that American children are routinely given. Last week, Dr Laura Hewitson, a specialist in obstetrics, gynaecology and reproductive sciences at the University of Pittsburgh, told the International Meeting for Autism Research in London that in the double-blind placebo-controlled study, 13 vaccinated animals showed increased aggression, impaired cognitive skills and developmental delay. The three unvaccinated animals in the study developed normally.
"There was a significant difference between the two groups," said Hewitson. "The vaccinated group had trouble developing reflexes?… They also became more insular and more aggressive. There was an increase in aggressive behaviour after they had their MMR vaccines, and they stopped exploring their surroundings as much."
Abnormal brain activity was found in the monkeys, and higher sensitivity to a naturally occurring brain chemical linked to sleeplessness, hallucinations, lack of social skills and a high pain threshold - all symptoms found in children on the autistic spectrum. The monkeys also exhibited abnormalities of the amygdala, the part of the brain which regulates emotions.
"We can't conclude that vaccines cause autism from this study," said Hewitson, "What we can conclude is that the vaccinated monkeys showed significant negative behavioural differences before and after the MMR."...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3354907/MMR-The-debate-that-wont-go-away.html

study out of Pittsburgh on monkeys, doesn't look good. maybe you as parent think it's nothing and trust the other studies more.
some parents might not like the look of that, ESPECIALLY if they have other children in the family that seemed to have similar problems.

people have a choice as to what they put in their bodies.

[revelarts]

....story behind vaccines begins in 1986.That is because it was in 1986 when the U.S. Congress created National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. Now that alone is worthy of a story, because what most Americans don’t know is that a family who has child injured by a vaccine, cannot simply sue the vaccine maker. Under this 1986 law, Congress took that power away from families and instead created a “vaccine court” if you will.
So what is the vaccine court? It is a Federal Claim’s court that deals specifically with vaccine cases where families can go for injury compensation if their child is injured by a vaccine.
The official name, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (“VICP”). Of course, this program is seen as necessary because virtually every child who attends a pre-school, daycare or public or private school is required to be vaccinated.
So what’s the problem?
In 1986 when the VICP was first created vaccine makers were protected from lawsuit by the public. The VICP insulates vaccine manufacturers from liability and requires that petitioners bring their petitions solely against HHS. They may not sue manufacturers or healthcare practitioners. The rationale for this industry and professional protection was to ensure a stable childhood vaccine supply and to keep prices affordable.
The 1986 Law also permits the vaccine makers the right to not disclose known risks to parents or guardians of those being vaccinated. Based on something called the “learned intermediary” doctrine, manufacturers bear no liability for giving, or failing to give, accurate or complete information to those vaccinated.
In exchange for being subject to the vaccine court, families of those injured would be compensated through an administrative process based on a table of presumptive vaccine injuries.
At its outset, 90% of claims were “on table.” But almost 30 years later, things are very different. Today, the vaccine schedule, meaning the list of vaccines offered to children has tripled, but the table of injuries has become much more restrictive, forcing 90% of petitioners into “off-table” litigation. And it gets worse. Because for families who believe that their children have been injured by vaccines, there are enormous roadblocks to overcome when seeking compensation for those injuries.....

link

http://benswann.com/truth-in-media-vaccine-court-and-autism/

but we should trust them right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfqpZqEP6gg