`SHTF - What's Your "Plan B" for Surviving SHTF? `

[LongTermGuy]

`Do you have a backup plan (Plan B) for when your preps go up in smoke? When everything fails, and everything goes wrong fast? When all you have is just the clothes on your back? `

********************

`I'm talking about surviving an "All Hell Breaks Loose" global series of events that will turn life upside down for a lot of people fast.And somewhere in the middle of all this you show up on the scene, either by yourself or with a friend, or if you're lucky, maybe you've got your spouse and kids along side as well.
No worries, right? I mean you've got all your preps... months (actually, more than 5 years now for some of you) of stocking up on food, water, and survival supplies.

You've got a shelter in your basement and a trail leading to a small pick up truck parked out back under a canvas, with a full tank of gas, ready to be loaded up with your preps at a moment's notice so you can hit the road in the case of a widescale evacuation.

It all looks good on paper, but do you have a "Plan B", to survive this sudden SHTF, should something unexpected go wrong?`

***Quick Read....

http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/plan_b_for_surviving_shtf.html

[SassyLady]

Yes.

Remote piece of property with supplies. ATV's to get there. Starting stocking up on food, water, etc. about four years ago, however, should have been purchasing ammo at same rate. Woefully inadequate for survival, much less protection.

Although, at my age I often wonder if it's just better to drink the arsenic.

[gabosaurus]

I've always wondered what the survivalists think they are escaping.
Nuclear holocaust? You can't escape it.
Zombie apocalypse? They will get you before you get them.
Total breakdown of society? Lord of the Flies.
You live until you die.

[SassyLady]

You live until you die ... but it's how you live until you die that concerns all of us preppers.

[gabosaurus]

In graduate psychology, we did a unit about this. We called it "the doomsday exercise."
I am certain that preppers have done all their homework on the physical side. They have shelter, supplies, ammo, all the basics. But how would you deal with PTSD following a conflict? How about the stress involved with isolation and sensory deprivation? How will you cope with a sudden lifestyle change, or the possible loss of one or more family members?

[LongTermGuy]

I've always wondered what the survivalists think they are escaping.



​*Gab...surviving is a better word...Natural disasters...or man made...never hurts being prepared ......Many survivalists find it interesting and amazing watching the news as folks run to the stores and emptying the shelves for an on coming storm .....The folks who didn't prepare and found the shelves empty will be `looking elsewhere` for food and supplies....that is a fact....

[LongTermGuy]

In graduate psychology, we did a unit about this. We called it "the doomsday exercise."
I am certain that preppers have done all their homework on the physical side. They have shelter, supplies, ammo, all the basics. But how would you deal with PTSD following a conflict? How about the stress involved with isolation and sensory deprivation? How will you cope with a sudden lifestyle change, or the possible loss of one or more family members?

`Gab...all your questions can be easily found.....through some research...humans are just that humans and not machines and will have Limitations...Not everyone is strong...thinks ahead....plans...or has the tenacity to survive....But many have the will and can overcome .....it beats dying or becoming a sheep and depending on others....people do what they must do`

[SassyLady]

In graduate psychology, we did a unit about this. We called it "the doomsday exercise."
I am certain that preppers have done all their homework on the physical side. They have shelter, supplies, ammo, all the basics. But how would you deal with PTSD following a conflict? How about the stress involved with isolation and sensory deprivation? How will you cope with a sudden lifestyle change, or the possible loss of one or more family members?

Probably a lot better than those that didn't prepare to survive. I don't get it Gabby. Everyone who experiences a catastrophic event will have PTSD ... not just those who prepared for it.

In fact, I think they will have less after effects than those who faced starvation and disease that spreads when people are confined together like cattle.

[sundaydriver]

I long ago decided that if things go bad the first thing I'm gonna do is shoot my cat before it can kill & eat me.

[aboutime]

Sadly. As many of us already know. Far too many Americans living today have no idea that TSHTF already.

It's just a matter of time, under this Phony Pretend President, and the Hypocrites in Congress, when the nation all of us Claim to Love...suddenly ends with MOB RULE taking charge, and all police protection will depend on whether you voted for ONE person, or you are a TRUE RACIST.

Short, and sweet. Nobody can DISPROVE the Truth.

[tailfins]

I've always wondered what the survivalists think they are escaping.
Nuclear holocaust? You can't escape it.
Zombie apocalypse? They will get you before you get them.
Total breakdown of society? Lord of the Flies.
You live until you die.

What I use as a reference is 1959 Cuba. I don't think a piece of property with a one year supply of food would help much. I'm thinking of what would you need to "bug out".

[LongTermGuy]

`Stranded in the city.....`


So what to bring in that car of yours? That's easy: The stuff that you'll need no matter what the problem.


*Supplies you'll likely need on the way back to your suburban home by foot (in other words, keep this stuff in a backpack in the trunk of your car).

`We know by now you've probably seen a lot of survival lists -- well here's one more list for you (we'll try to keep this list to the bare essentials).`


1. Bottled water and a way to filter / purify water.

2. A small radio with batteries.

3. A flashlight or headlamp.


4. Something to sleep in (a tent may be hard to bring with you, but at least a small sleeping bag).

5. 2 or 3 folded, heavy duty, 55 gallon garbage bags -- which
you'll use to to build a nearly waterproof shelter or even something to sleep in, worn over your sleeping bag to keep out the weather.

6. Duct tape to help seal your improvised garbage bag shelter (if you build one). But there's a trick to carrying duct tape -- you don't need to carry an entire roll to build your shelter. Instead, in advance, tear off several strips approximately 5 inches each, and then put one strip on a garbage bag, and then layer several 4 inch strips on top of the first. You now have an easy way to carry some duct tape, without taking up much space in your small pack (also called a "get home" bag).

7. A change of clothes -- we recommend two pairs of pants, and two hooded sweat-shirts (two sets of each, so they can be worn in "layers" for added warmth); a waterproof jacket, in case of rain; and a stocking cap, regardless of the season. Wearing a stocking cap while you sleep is a great way to stay warm when sleeping outdoors, as well as wool socks on your feet.

8. Dry food that doesn't spoil (high calorie energy bars, for example).
9. A cell phone (but that would probably go out on you in case of an EMP attack).

10. A knife.

11. A lighting device of some kind (waterproof lighter). Always carry at least two lighters -- that way you always have a spare lighter as back-up.

12. A state map and compass (as long as you know how to use your compass) kept in a Zip-Lock freezer bag.

13. Nukepills (iodine I-131) and medications you might need.

14. Further, weapons for self-defense, depending on how you feel about that and what's legal in your area. (You can do sufficient damage to allow time to escape with a can of high-potency pepper spray, for example.)

15. Good shoes, such as those used for "cross-training" or "trail-running" (it's very important that your shoes lace-up well, so that they do not come untied if you have to make a run for it.).

16. Small backpack. Nothing too big, or someone else might want to take it from you. Also, make sure it's dark in color (so it doesn't attract attention), and water resistant (water-proof is even better). If you can't afford a waterproof pack, then wrap your spare clothing, food, flashlight, etc. in small, sealed garbage bags before you put these items in your pack.

17. Finally, carry firestarter in a small waterproof container. Cotton balls work great as firestarter -- and you can stuff a lot of cotton balls in a small waterproof container. To increase flammability consider rubbing those fireballs in a small amount of charcoal lighter or even Vaseline or another flammable oil-based material -- but just a small amount.

.....In the end, depending on the problem you're most likely to face (which we believe is being stranded in a large city when you're miles from home), you can decide what you may need / not need in your backpack.

Of course, this will depend on the disaster you're dealing with, the distance you have to go, and the kinds of terrain your journey is likely to take you across.....
Finally, here's something that may seem to run counterproductive to staying away from the hordes moving to the suburbs. Find yourself a small group of friends. A large group is just too much. Rather, a group of three to four may be best.
This way, what you don't know about the area / survival may be known by them. You can work together (one can man the radio, the other the cell phone, the other the compass, etc.).
And if social unrest occurs, criminals will think twice about messing with a group over a single traveler.

No matter how bad it gets, we encourage you to be strong, have courage, and be on the alert. Hopefully, you will never find yourself in such a situation as described here.

Unfortunately, things are looking more and more dangerous out there.`

[SassyLady]

I have a to go bags in both of my cars (with everything on your list except the map and the nuke pills) I never let the gas gauge get below 50% in either of them. Before I started packing for the move (selling my house), I had my basement stocked with plenty of survival items. And, I had a garden planted ... on my own well ... generator. However, I know that the neighbors would have been "visiting" my place for handouts because they don't have anything stored but weed.

As for meds ... the only one that I know I cannot do without is my Excedrin!!!

[Jeff]

Yes.

Remote piece of property with supplies. ATV's to get there. Starting stocking up on food, water, etc. about four years ago, however, should have been purchasing ammo at same rate. Woefully inadequate for survival, much less protection.

Although, at my age I often wonder if it's just better to drink the arsenic.

My plan is to move in with Sassy :laugh:


I long ago decided that if things go bad the first thing I'm gonna do is shoot my cat before it can kill & eat me.

Dam cats. :laugh:

[Drummond]

Looking on the bright side (.. yes, I think there is one ..) .. one thing I think you can rely on is the unfitness of Lefties to in any way address the reality that would exist.

Lefties only see the reality that they prefer to see. They'd therefore never dream of preparing for any reality not already in their worldview.

Consequently, none would be around to promote their .. 'philosophy'. Somehow, I don't think I'd miss that too much ... :rolleyes:

[NightTrain]

I'm all set. We didn't really build the cabin for that purpose, but it was a secondary concern.

If Doomsday were to hit, I think roughly half the population would simply wait around in the ruins waiting for someone to come rescue them. That doesn't seem very appealing, but really, what kind of survival skills would your typical city dweller have? Other than rampant looting, I don't think there's any other options. They'll all have really cool Nike shoes, but once the potato chips run out it will get pretty grim.

My biggest concern in that scenario is gasoline. That would truly become worth it's weight in gold in short order. Sure, I've got axes and hand saws, but the boat, ATVs and vehicles need gas and you can't store gas for more than 2 years or so & still be usable, even with stabilizers. And stockpiling 2 years of gas is unfeasible. Every gas station would quickly become heavily defended by a group of people... if they had the foresight to bring a generator to power the pumps, that is. Hard to get the gas out of the underground tanks without that.

I don't think ammo is as big of a concern as the gas. You can stockpile ammo and reloading is no big deal if you have the equipment.

[gabosaurus]

If you want to see what I feel a really honest portrayal of nuclear holocaust would be, watch the movie "Threads." It is genuinely frightening.

I feel there are a ton of people who will be physically ready for a doomsday situation. But how many will be mentally ready? A total breakdown of societal norms will be tough to overcome.
I would want to cast my lot with someone who is used to be isolated and has a lot of survival training and forward thinking.
NightTrain, how long have you live in Alaska? You seem to be most prepared of the lot.

[Kathianne]

If you want to see what I feel a really honest portrayal of nuclear holocaust would be, watch the movie "Threads." It is genuinely frightening.

I feel there are a ton of people who will be physically ready for a doomsday situation. But how many will be mentally ready? A total breakdown of societal norms will be tough to overcome.
I would want to cast my lot with someone who is used to be isolated and has a lot of survival training and forward thinking.
NightTrain, how long have you live in Alaska? You seem to be most prepared of the lot.

I think Sassy could also hold out in terrible conditions.

[Abbey Marie]

Yes, give me Nightrain, Darin and Sassy, and I'll feel pretty secure.

Along these lines, I'm planning a night of target shooting and dinner soon with two girlfriends. I think we'll save the drinks for AFTER the shooting, though.
:eek:

[NightTrain]

If you want to see what I feel a really honest portrayal of nuclear holocaust would be, watch the movie "Threads." It is genuinely frightening.

I feel there are a ton of people who will be physically ready for a doomsday situation. But how many will be mentally ready? A total breakdown of societal norms will be tough to overcome.
I would want to cast my lot with someone who is used to be isolated and has a lot of survival training and forward thinking.
NightTrain, how long have you live in Alaska? You seem to be most prepared of the lot.


40 years in AK. I was raised out there, so it's no mystery.

It's a hell of a lot of hard work, though. Every single day.

Honestly, though, I think the chances of a doomsday scenario happening are slim to none.

[Drummond]

If you want to see what I feel a really honest portrayal of nuclear holocaust would be, watch the movie "Threads." It is genuinely frightening.

I feel there are a ton of people who will be physically ready for a doomsday situation. But how many will be mentally ready? A total breakdown of societal norms will be tough to overcome.
I would want to cast my lot with someone who is used to be isolated and has a lot of survival training and forward thinking.
NightTrain, how long have you live in Alaska? You seem to be most prepared of the lot.

I watched 'Threads' a very long time ago ... must be at least a decade ago, if not longer.

I'd recommend a fictional book to you and to everybody here .. chances are it can't be purchased, as it was written decades ago and must be out of print. But just in case anyone is able to read it .. it's called 'Down to a Sunless Sea', by David Graham.

It describes a gloomy future, where America's sources of oil have run out, she can't buy more, and so America is in terminal decline, with starvation rampant. The UK has largely escaped such a fate, and so runs 'mercy flights' to JFK Airport, picking up people who've won a weekly lottery entitling them to fly to the UK to begin a new life.

The 'Air Britain' flight in question is halfway from New York to London, when nuclear war breaks out. So the rest of the story is written from the point of view of the flight crew, as they learn of the progressive bombings of all the cities they'd have in flight range.

Cutting a long story short .. desperate for a place to land before their fuel runs out, they land in the Azores, at a military base that had been neutron bombed. They make plans, refuel the aircraft from military craft at the base, then fly all the way to McMurdo Base in the Antarctic. Their hope is to survive in a place on earth, for a handful of years at least, where radioactivity levels won't kill them.

But what they discover is that this is an impossibility. A few months on .. and radioactive clouds reach them. Everybody dies.

The novel is educational in a particular respect, in that it teaches that radiation absorption is cumulative .. also that, however long it takes, radiation WILL cover the earth in time. Add these two facts together .. and it becomes evident that surviving a nuclear holocaust is ultimately a fiction. The only question is how long it would take to die from it.

Even living in a radiation-proof bunker just delays the inevitable. Sooner or later, those living in it would need to emerge from it. To what ? A planet with high levels of radiation, as some of its forms have half lives lasting thousands of years ... where any available food sources would've long since been irradiated ?

Besides, we in the UK had a 'taste' of that from Chernobyl, decades ago. A radioactive cloud reached us from Chernobyl around 10 days after the nuclear accident, and for a week it elevated background radiation levels to five times their normal level, before moving off. We were told that exposure to those levels for two years (it wouldn't have happened for that long, of course, but if it HAD ..) would've been dangerous to our health.

Radiation absorption is cumulative. Ultimately there is NO safe dosage level of exposure, if exposure continues for long enough.

[Kathianne]

Regarding the problems with nuclear war, I'd recommend, CP Snow, "The New Men." Snow was part of the Manhattan Project, not happily.

[darin]

I'm all set. We didn't really build the cabin for that purpose, but it was a secondary concern.

If Doomsday were to hit, I think roughly half the population would simply wait around in the ruins waiting for someone to come rescue them. That doesn't seem very appealing, but really, what kind of survival skills would your typical city dweller have? Other than rampant looting, I don't think there's any other options. They'll all have really cool Nike shoes, but once the potato chips run out it will get pretty grim.

My biggest concern in that scenario is gasoline. That would truly become worth it's weight in gold in short order. Sure, I've got axes and hand saws, but the boat, ATVs and vehicles need gas and you can't store gas for more than 2 years or so & still be usable, even with stabilizers. And stockpiling 2 years of gas is unfeasible. Every gas station would quickly become heavily defended by a group of people... if they had the foresight to bring a generator to power the pumps, that is. Hard to get the gas out of the underground tanks without that.

I don't think ammo is as big of a concern as the gas. You can stockpile ammo and reloading is no big deal if you have the equipment.


40 years in AK. I was raised out there, so it's no mystery.

It's a hell of a lot of hard work, though. Every single day.

Honestly, though, I think the chances of a doomsday scenario happening are slim to none.

If I had the time, I'd walk to NT's place. I can offer security, plucky-comic-relief, and a good head on my shoulders. But...by the time I made that walk? Geesh...probably would take two years.

I wrote this a few years ago - putting here in case it helps folks with ideas.

Long-distance Commuters face challenges.
I average 20 days at work per month. During those days, I am away from home for 11.5 hours. Unless the Zombie Apocalypse starts conveniently on a Saturday morning, before I can survive the end of the world as I know it I have to get home.
My daily commute carries me 35 miles each way. Sometimes while sitting in traffic I’m reminded of real life – and fictional – disaster situations looking a lot like what I face each day; miles and miles of bumper-to-bumper traffic congestion. The defining difference is this: My traffic jam eventually clears and I motor-on my way towards kids and dogs.
Lately my thoughts push me towards my need to return home in the event of the worst – specifically, planning for my daily trip.
Before I can bug-in at my homestead, I have to get there! Before I can work to provide comfort and safety for my family, I have to reach home. If the roads were closed or blocked just how would I manage?
Living in Southeast Michigan for several years, I have seen the weather change pretty quickly. Even if my winter vehicle has the ability to traverse deep snow covered roads, local authorities have the power to determine roads “Impassible”, stranding me away from the homestead. Apart from winter hazards, commuters face a multitude of potential challenges, from massive traffic accidents, terror attack – recall the streams of pedestrians evacuating downtown New York City on 11 September 2001 – or natural disasters. Below you will find tips to prepare yourself and your vehicle for the commute from hell.

Driving:
Take serious consideration in your commuter – remember a car not properly equipped, or lacking other capabilities gets GREAT fuel
economy, while stuck on the side of the road. My 16mpg SUV hurts my wallet at fuel-up, however worth more to me is the security
presented by having a greater chance of making it home through all kinds of weather.
During winter weather - as defined by me when the daily high temperatures doesn't get above about 40 degrees- consider swapping your all-season or all terrain tires with dedicated-winter tires. The benefits of All-wheel drive or Four wheel drive are gone after about 15 feet of moving your vehicle off a stop.

Once on-way, all-wheel or four-wheel offers little-to-no benefit of keeping your Vehicle traveling, stopping, or turning. Dedicated snow/winter performance tires On a two-wheel drive car (either front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive) will
Make that car EASILY out-perform all-wheel/4 wheel drive cars and trucks using all-season, All-terrain or even large off-road tires. I often hear a common misconception – “My car goes well in the snow”. Not true, mostly.

Your car’s TIRES go through the snow well.

Tires are often over-looked because the summer or all-seasons currently on the vehicle “have good tread left”. Tread compound and
tread designed specifically for winter and cold-weather driving conditions is the best way to ensure safe travel. More than simply
having the power to take off from a stop, winter tires provide stopping and turning power. Often winter-specific tires can stop in
half the distance of summer or all-season tires. Even the best all-season tires will stop many feet later than winter-specific tires
– but sometimes even a few feet can mean the difference between a collision with another car, obstacle, or person, and prevention of
those impacts. Having said that, I struggle finding winter tires the size I need for my truck - and when i get close, the tires get very expensive. To mitigate, I use 'mountain-snowflake' embossed tires - and I get them siped for help in powder snow. Siping is a Great way to help your vehicle's tires grab in snowy conditions. Very well worth the $10? or so per tire.

Providing additional weight over the drive wheels further assists with cold-weather driving.
Available now are a water bladders for truck beds and car trunks, filled with up to approximately 400lbs of water.

Another plus for using full-size vehicles, trucks or SUVs- The benefits of ground clearance and proper winter tires combine in a way either of the two alone could not. I used to own a Subaru Legacy GT - using Blizzak snow tires the car was nearly unstoppable.
Until the snow got deep. The few inches of ground clearance meant I would sometimes be stuck waiting for a plow to clear the roads around me.

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Much like snow, rain and flood weather happens. August of 2014 brought to my area record flooding. Another benefit to a larger
Commuter - ground clearance. While not always the case, in general higher vehicles keep their air-intakes higher-up from the ground.
Flooding an engine through the air intake system is probably the biggest risk faced with deep water. As a rule, avoid
crossing water deeper than half-way up the wheels. My truck has 35" tires; giving me at least 18" of fording capabilities.
My truck pulls its air from just behind the headlight, over across the engine and to the air filter sitting atop the engine. Because the ducting attaches just below the filter, I un-hook it if faced with a water crossing. While the engine is then sucking super-hot air over the top of the engine, having the ducting unhooked gives about six more inches of height from where the engine typically sucks air in.

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Tornadoes are not unheard-of in my area – wind damage to infrastructure is inevitable. Deciding to commute in a vehicle with
all or four-wheel drive, and offering as much ground clearance as possible will enable me to overcome standing or running water across
roadways (while avoiding those obstacles is ideal, sometimes there is no choice), or limbs or other debris across the roadway. I also live
1.4 miles from the nearest paved road – in the worst kind of weather, my road is not maintained. Getting home means getting muddy.

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Packing for worst-case:
In addition to common items – jumper cables, Tylenol/aspirin, extra food, gasoline, water, folding knife, small tool kit, first-aid kit
and blanket, Ready-to-eat meal; a ¾ full re-usable water bottle (to allow for freezing temperatures), extra socks, scarf, gloves, hat,
sunglasses, small disposable lighter, 50ft of 550 cord, military surplus thermals, and plastic rain poncho will work to
keep me prepared for either driving or walking home. I purchased a pair of Army surplus aviator gloves; the Nomex™ construction will
provide some flame protection in the event of an accident or rescue, while thin enough preventing significant finger/hand dexterity loss.
All items fit nicely in my Oakley “Kitchen Sink” backpack.
I also created homemade fire-starters using make-up removing cotton patches, dipped in melted candle wax, and left to dry on a wire
rack over a sheet-pan. After bundling the tender, rip one of the wax-coated patches to expose the cotton fibers. Apply flame from the
lighter and within about a minute I have a sustainable flame that holds enough flame to ignite even damp branches, sticks, and debris.
A head-mounted lamp will help with vehicle repairs or path illumination should I be forced to abandon my vehicle.
Using the head-worn lamp brings freedom to use my arms to carry other items, support, or defend myself. The lamp also serves to
signal others if I become in need of assistance due to injury or attack. I tend to forget to check the batteries of all my stored
emergency electronic devices – do not follow my example as an unlit lamp shines on no path. A good reminder – every time I change my
car’s wiper blades, I re-inventory my supplies.

Alternative routes:
Most days I follow the same route to work and home again. While shopping for my house I became familiar with my area – I know which
roads connect to the road that leads me home. One day, every other month or so, I take a new way home – even the LONG way. I do this to remain up to date with road closures, detours, construction, and traffic density. In the event of the worst-case scenario, the popular
roads will likely become clogged with vehicles and pedestrians sticking to the familiar. Knowing which side streets connect to where
affords some relief and ease of access to other roads leading home. One thing to remember – if you think of a short cut, chances are
somebody else has too! Avoiding the shortest route, in terms of distance or time to complete, may end up being faster due to less
congestion.

Alternative Transportation:

Placing a mountain bike in the truck bed, or SUV cargo area, and securing with a normal bike lock and cable can provide a much-faster way home, should stuff hit the fan. Again, do not forget to maintain the emergency bike – ensure your bike has air in the tires and inner tube patching equipment along with a means to pump air into a repaired tube.

Walking:
While a Soldier, I learned first-hand the benefits of LPCs as a mode a transport. LPC – Leather Personnel Carrier – a joke-name for
our combat boots. Facing a 35 mile walk home, maintaining a pair of broken-in, comfortable and durable boots is vital. Buying a pair of
great hiking boots or shoes, and placing them in your car for emergencies might lead to debilitating blistering, rubbing, or aching
– hindering the trek.
Sure to be in a hurry to reach my family, I cannot forget to stretch my muscles before, during and after such a walk. Slow and
consistent plodding will take a toll on my feet, joints, and hips. My back and shoulders will be sore carrying my backpack, too. Nobody
has to do 35 mile walks to prepare for a 35 mile walk in the worst conditions – however having a realistic view of one’s physical
abilities will help in planning for such an endeavor.
To ease the impact on feet, walk on the unpaved shoulder areas of the roads – a tip taught to me by my Drill Sergeants during Basic
Training. Using arms to swing and help momentum is effective towards covering ground. Having marching cadence either playing on mp3-player
with headphones, or recited from memory can help maintain an effective pace and breathing pattern.
Unless I am being chased, I must stop for rest periods. These periods can be anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes. Word of
caution – it is often easier to KEEP walking, than to START walking. As good as a rest may feel, the pain of starting again might be worse.
Drinking water, even in cold temperatures is vital to success. I cannot carry enough water to keep me for 35 miles; however I can work
to ensure I maintain daily hydration and consume the water I carry. Ideally, one quart per hour - water cannot help if it is never
consumed. While on a march like this finding potable water is essential. Options include groceries and gas stationed, if open - or
even a friendly neighbor along the way.

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THESE People? In the pic above? They typify our society; they do not plan, or do piss-poor-planning, which are essentially the same thing, and abandon their vehicles. Further, drivers today are ill-equipped with operating in adverse conditions. If their car starts to slide they panic, stop and get out. As for me and those around me? Learning to slide a car is a right of passage; if my then-14-year-old daughter can slide this truck on purpose, she likely will not panic if it happens accidentally.

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To fight one’s worst enemy – worry/distress – finding the right mindset is essential. Embarking on a journey like this means hours
and hours before reuniting. Considering what you might find when you return home may serve as motivation to complete the walk. When this
consideration moves to worry, rushing and carelessness may lead to injury or worse. When starting on a walk like this, making each
mile, or route-marker as individual goals will prevent the hurry-ups, and might prevent hasty decisions. Instead of ‘walking home’, I am
only walking to “The freeway overpass a couple miles from here”. The smaller goal is more achievable than the more-than-a-marathon distance
awaiting me. Focusing on the small task makes the big task achievable.
We live in a world where the worst can happen. With the threats and capabilities of terrorists, and the fury of Mother Nature, we can
no longer afford to ‘hope’ things work out. Hope is not a viable strategy. Through careful consideration we can take steps to mitigate
the damage; with a practiced plan, we can establish alternatives to our situations – wherever circumstance – or our commute - places us.
By planning ahead, we will help to ensure we make it to our loved ones during times of crisis.

[jimnyc]

I'm gonna be like "Merle" from the walking dead. No need for me to stock up, other than a gun and some training with it, and my crossbow like Daryl! I'm just gonna rob and loot my way to happiness, and then take one to the temple when the biters/walkers find me!

[aboutime]

There won't be any need for a plan "B", or any other plan.

When the total power grid of the U.S.A. fails, mob rule, and Anarchy take over where there is nobody to enforce rules, laws, or a constitution. Just remember...if you can. A movie you will no longer be able to watch, called
"RED DAWN".
When the lazy, uneducated, irresponsible discover their money doesn't work, or isn't enough. Or they discover they are no longer able to pump gasoline into their vehicles...due to no Power to run the pumps. And all of the grocery stores have been invaded by rioters who took everything they could carry, the sewage, and water systems are no longer operating, and all we can hear is Gunfire.

What good will any PLAN do?

[Jeff]

There won't be any need for a plan "B", or any other plan.

When the total power grid of the U.S.A. fails, mob rule, and Anarchy take over where there is nobody to enforce rules, laws, or a constitution. Just remember...if you can. A movie you will no longer be able to watch, called
"RED DAWN".
When the lazy, uneducated, irresponsible discover their money doesn't work, or isn't enough. Or they discover they are no longer able to pump gasoline into their vehicles...due to no Power to run the pumps. And all of the grocery stores have been invaded by rioters who took everything they could carry, the sewage, and water systems are no longer operating, and all we can hear is Gunfire.

What good will any PLAN do?

That's why you align yourself with the mob, the people that will have the stones to take over :laugh: actually i am hoping they will keep this old guy around :laugh:

[LongTermGuy]

There won't be any need for a plan "B", or any other plan.

When the total power grid of the U.S.A. fails, mob rule, and Anarchy take over where there is nobody to enforce rules, laws, or a constitution. Just remember...if you can. A movie you will no longer be able to watch, called
"RED DAWN".
When the lazy, uneducated, irresponsible discover their money doesn't work, or isn't enough. Or they discover they are no longer able to pump gasoline into their vehicles...due to no Power to run the pumps. And all of the grocery stores have been invaded by rioters who took everything they could carry, the sewage, and water systems are no longer operating, and all we can hear is Gunfire.

What good will any PLAN do?

~ "And all of the grocery stores have been invaded by rioters who took everything they could carry, the sewage, and water systems are no longer operating, and all we can hear is Gunfire." ~




*One learns to adapt....or one can cut their wrists and die like a Bitch...`Survivalist` have planned for this for a long time...most rioters..looters will starve and kill themselves off...or get shot...beheaded...and head used for a no trespassing sign....most survivalists anticipated not having water and sewage systems not operating (there is so much to say about this)...good research will answer most questions...

[LongTermGuy]

If I had the time, I'd walk to NT's place. I can offer security, plucky-comic-relief, and a good head on my shoulders. But...by the time I made that walk? Geesh...probably would take two years.

I wrote this a few years ago - putting here in case it helps folks with ideas.

Long-distance Commuters face challenges.
I average 20 days at work per month. During those days, I am away from home for 11.5 hours. Unless the Zombie Apocalypse starts conveniently on a Saturday morning, before I can survive the end of the world as I know it I have to get home.
My daily commute carries me 35 miles each way. Sometimes while sitting in traffic I’m reminded of real life – and fictional – disaster situations looking a lot like what I face each day; miles and miles of bumper-to-bumper traffic congestion. The defining difference is this: My traffic jam eventually clears and I motor-on my way towards kids and dogs.
Lately my thoughts push me towards my need to return home in the event of the worst – specifically, planning for my daily trip.
Before I can bug-in at my homestead, I have to get there! Before I can work to provide comfort and safety for my family, I have to reach home. If the roads were closed or blocked just how would I manage?
Living in Southeast Michigan for several years, I have seen the weather change pretty quickly. Even if my winter vehicle has the ability to traverse deep snow covered roads, local authorities have the power to determine roads “Impassible”, stranding me away from the homestead. Apart from winter hazards, commuters face a multitude of potential challenges, from massive traffic accidents, terror attack – recall the streams of pedestrians evacuating downtown New York City on 11 September 2001 – or natural disasters. Below you will find tips to prepare yourself and your vehicle for the commute from hell.

Driving:
Take serious consideration in your commuter – remember a car not properly equipped, or lacking other capabilities gets GREAT fuel
economy, while stuck on the side of the road. My 16mpg SUV hurts my wallet at fuel-up, however worth more to me is the security
presented by having a greater chance of making it home through all kinds of weather.
During winter weather - as defined by me when the daily high temperatures doesn't get above about 40 degrees- consider swapping your all-season or all terrain tires with dedicated-winter tires. The benefits of All-wheel drive or Four wheel drive are gone after about 15 feet of moving your vehicle off a stop.

Once on-way, all-wheel or four-wheel offers little-to-no benefit of keeping your Vehicle traveling, stopping, or turning. Dedicated snow/winter performance tires On a two-wheel drive car (either front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive) will
Make that car EASILY out-perform all-wheel/4 wheel drive cars and trucks using all-season, All-terrain or even large off-road tires. I often hear a common misconception – “My car goes well in the snow”. Not true, mostly.

Your car’s TIRES go through the snow well.

Tires are often over-looked because the summer or all-seasons currently on the vehicle “have good tread left”. Tread compound and
tread designed specifically for winter and cold-weather driving conditions is the best way to ensure safe travel. More than simply
having the power to take off from a stop, winter tires provide stopping and turning power. Often winter-specific tires can stop in
half the distance of summer or all-season tires. Even the best all-season tires will stop many feet later than winter-specific tires
– but sometimes even a few feet can mean the difference between a collision with another car, obstacle, or person, and prevention of
those impacts. Having said that, I struggle finding winter tires the size I need for my truck - and when i get close, the tires get very expensive. To mitigate, I use 'mountain-snowflake' embossed tires - and I get them siped for help in powder snow. Siping is a Great way to help your vehicle's tires grab in snowy conditions. Very well worth the $10? or so per tire.

Providing additional weight over the drive wheels further assists with cold-weather driving.
Available now are a water bladders for truck beds and car trunks, filled with up to approximately 400lbs of water.

Another plus for using full-size vehicles, trucks or SUVs- The benefits of ground clearance and proper winter tires combine in a way either of the two alone could not. I used to own a Subaru Legacy GT - using Blizzak snow tires the car was nearly unstoppable.
Until the snow got deep. The few inches of ground clearance meant I would sometimes be stuck waiting for a plow to clear the roads around me.

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Much like snow, rain and flood weather happens. August of 2014 brought to my area record flooding. Another benefit to a larger
Commuter - ground clearance. While not always the case, in general higher vehicles keep their air-intakes higher-up from the ground.
Flooding an engine through the air intake system is probably the biggest risk faced with deep water. As a rule, avoid
crossing water deeper than half-way up the wheels. My truck has 35" tires; giving me at least 18" of fording capabilities.
My truck pulls its air from just behind the headlight, over across the engine and to the air filter sitting atop the engine. Because the ducting attaches just below the filter, I un-hook it if faced with a water crossing. While the engine is then sucking super-hot air over the top of the engine, having the ducting unhooked gives about six more inches of height from where the engine typically sucks air in.

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Tornadoes are not unheard-of in my area – wind damage to infrastructure is inevitable. Deciding to commute in a vehicle with
all or four-wheel drive, and offering as much ground clearance as possible will enable me to overcome standing or running water across
roadways (while avoiding those obstacles is ideal, sometimes there is no choice), or limbs or other debris across the roadway. I also live
1.4 miles from the nearest paved road – in the worst kind of weather, my road is not maintained. Getting home means getting muddy.

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Packing for worst-case:
In addition to common items – jumper cables, Tylenol/aspirin, extra food, gasoline, water, folding knife, small tool kit, first-aid kit
and blanket, Ready-to-eat meal; a ¾ full re-usable water bottle (to allow for freezing temperatures), extra socks, scarf, gloves, hat,
sunglasses, small disposable lighter, 50ft of 550 cord, military surplus thermals, and plastic rain poncho will work to
keep me prepared for either driving or walking home. I purchased a pair of Army surplus aviator gloves; the Nomex™ construction will
provide some flame protection in the event of an accident or rescue, while thin enough preventing significant finger/hand dexterity loss.
All items fit nicely in my Oakley “Kitchen Sink” backpack.
I also created homemade fire-starters using make-up removing cotton patches, dipped in melted candle wax, and left to dry on a wire
rack over a sheet-pan. After bundling the tender, rip one of the wax-coated patches to expose the cotton fibers. Apply flame from the
lighter and within about a minute I have a sustainable flame that holds enough flame to ignite even damp branches, sticks, and debris.
A head-mounted lamp will help with vehicle repairs or path illumination should I be forced to abandon my vehicle.
Using the head-worn lamp brings freedom to use my arms to carry other items, support, or defend myself. The lamp also serves to
signal others if I become in need of assistance due to injury or attack. I tend to forget to check the batteries of all my stored
emergency electronic devices – do not follow my example as an unlit lamp shines on no path. A good reminder – every time I change my
car’s wiper blades, I re-inventory my supplies.

Alternative routes:
Most days I follow the same route to work and home again. While shopping for my house I became familiar with my area – I know which
roads connect to the road that leads me home. One day, every other month or so, I take a new way home – even the LONG way. I do this to remain up to date with road closures, detours, construction, and traffic density. In the event of the worst-case scenario, the popular
roads will likely become clogged with vehicles and pedestrians sticking to the familiar. Knowing which side streets connect to where
affords some relief and ease of access to other roads leading home. One thing to remember – if you think of a short cut, chances are
somebody else has too! Avoiding the shortest route, in terms of distance or time to complete, may end up being faster due to less
congestion.

Alternative Transportation:

Placing a mountain bike in the truck bed, or SUV cargo area, and securing with a normal bike lock and cable can provide a much-faster way home, should stuff hit the fan. Again, do not forget to maintain the emergency bike – ensure your bike has air in the tires and inner tube patching equipment along with a means to pump air into a repaired tube.

Walking:
While a Soldier, I learned first-hand the benefits of LPCs as a mode a transport. LPC – Leather Personnel Carrier – a joke-name for
our combat boots. Facing a 35 mile walk home, maintaining a pair of broken-in, comfortable and durable boots is vital. Buying a pair of
great hiking boots or shoes, and placing them in your car for emergencies might lead to debilitating blistering, rubbing, or aching
– hindering the trek.
Sure to be in a hurry to reach my family, I cannot forget to stretch my muscles before, during and after such a walk. Slow and
consistent plodding will take a toll on my feet, joints, and hips. My back and shoulders will be sore carrying my backpack, too. Nobody
has to do 35 mile walks to prepare for a 35 mile walk in the worst conditions – however having a realistic view of one’s physical
abilities will help in planning for such an endeavor.
To ease the impact on feet, walk on the unpaved shoulder areas of the roads – a tip taught to me by my Drill Sergeants during Basic
Training. Using arms to swing and help momentum is effective towards covering ground. Having marching cadence either playing on mp3-player
with headphones, or recited from memory can help maintain an effective pace and breathing pattern.
Unless I am being chased, I must stop for rest periods. These periods can be anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes. Word of
caution – it is often easier to KEEP walking, than to START walking. As good as a rest may feel, the pain of starting again might be worse.
Drinking water, even in cold temperatures is vital to success. I cannot carry enough water to keep me for 35 miles; however I can work
to ensure I maintain daily hydration and consume the water I carry. Ideally, one quart per hour - water cannot help if it is never
consumed. While on a march like this finding potable water is essential. Options include groceries and gas stationed, if open - or
even a friendly neighbor along the way.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6982&d=1422968134
THESE People? In the pic above? They typify our society; they do not plan, or do piss-poor-planning, which are essentially the same thing, and abandon their vehicles. Further, drivers today are ill-equipped with operating in adverse conditions. If their car starts to slide they panic, stop and get out. As for me and those around me? Learning to slide a car is a right of passage; if my then-14-year-old daughter can slide this truck on purpose, she likely will not panic if it happens accidentally.

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To fight one’s worst enemy – worry/distress – finding the right mindset is essential. Embarking on a journey like this means hours
and hours before reuniting. Considering what you might find when you return home may serve as motivation to complete the walk. When this
consideration moves to worry, rushing and carelessness may lead to injury or worse. When starting on a walk like this, making each
mile, or route-marker as individual goals will prevent the hurry-ups, and might prevent hasty decisions. Instead of ‘walking home’, I am
only walking to “The freeway overpass a couple miles from here”. The smaller goal is more achievable than the more-than-a-marathon distance
awaiting me. Focusing on the small task makes the big task achievable.
We live in a world where the worst can happen. With the threats and capabilities of terrorists, and the fury of Mother Nature, we can
no longer afford to ‘hope’ things work out. Hope is not a viable strategy. Through careful consideration we can take steps to mitigate
the damage; with a practiced plan, we can establish alternatives to our situations – wherever circumstance – or our commute - places us.
By planning ahead, we will help to ensure we make it to our loved ones during times of crisis.


:clap::clap::clap: well done DMP

[NightTrain]

I guess the most popular prevailing cause of Doomsday is nuclear war.

You guys remember when Chernobyl went down? I remember reading in the papers that the whole area was going to be an uninhabitable wasteland for hundreds of years, according to every "Expert" they could find to quote. There was much hand-wringing going on from every quarter - except from the Soviets, who promptly sent in hundreds of peasants to try and mitigate it.

The radiation levels went down much, much faster than anyone thought it would. It's still not healthy to be around there for very long, but it's no where near as bad as everyone said it was going to be years down the road.

I really don't think all the talk about radiation levels, fallout and nuclear winter would be as horrific in the long term as all the experts say it would. Mother earth has a way of fixing things pretty efficiently to bring back balance.


My own opinion of the most likely cause is a plague of some sort... like Stephen King's 'The Stand' or something along those lines. We all saw how Ebola spread, even when the entire world was aware of what was going on in Africa, and yet our idiot leaders allowed unrestricted air travel, and even sent some military troops there. Then, infected medical personnel - who knew they were possibly infected - still went out in public because they wanted to. Sheer stupidity, and if it had mutated to become airborne infectious, THEN we would have had a big problem.

[aboutime]

That's why you align yourself with the mob, the people that will have the stones to take over :laugh: actually i am hoping they will keep this old guy around :laugh:


Jeff. :laugh: I am betting I won't be around when something like that takes place. My biggest concern is for our six grandchildren, our son's, and how they will survive in a TRUE WORLD FULL OF ASSHOLES.?

[LongTermGuy]

************************************************** ********

`...... survival tools that could make a big difference in the aftermath of disaster.`
**********************************************
~ A worst case scenario has unfolded in America ~

`Four major natural disasters have struck in different parts of the U.S. in a period of just a few days.

Three of these disasters occurred on the West Coast, and scientists are scratching their heads trying to figure out how these are connected.
`Theories pour forth across the airwaves. First.... a 9.1 quake hit Los Angeles (the "Big One") as Southern Californians have long feared, followed by the eruption of Mount Ranier in Washington State that same day and just a day later a "Big One" then struck Seattle, another long-feared earthquake, this one a 9.1. as well.

`People across the world are glued to their television sets. Many along the West Coast, especially those in the vicinity of LA and Seattle, can't watch TV, they're missing this. There's simply no electricity......But they're listening on their radios.. many in severe shock -- with three disasters hitting so close together, and on major population centers, the psychological impact is terrifying.

It's been so quiet for the last few months -- and suddenly three major disasters, each long feared, have struck within just days of one another. It's too much for some....

`The next day the earth shakes again -- and disaster number four takes place. This time it's San Francisco.
San Francisco is hit harder than Los Angeles and Seattle combined.

....The city is destroyed. And then, for the next few days, San Francisco simply burns, a thousand fires that can be seen from miles away, smoke billowing to the sky......

Now we get to the point of this article ... what tools do you have around your home and your neighborhood that can help you survive a natural disaster?

`If you're like many modern day Americans, you may live in a distant suburb and potentially escape the brunt of a significant disaster laying waste to a major city in your area.

`What items are laying right under your nose that can help you not just survive but even thrive when the area you live in has been laid waste by something as destructive as a catastrophic earthquake?

*First, let's discuss electricity:

Within a day or two of calls on your cell phone to the outside world, the thing is going to die on you. It's going to run out of battery power. It's going to need a recharge.

**This is where a cigarette-lighter DC to AC adaptor (http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/gear/150-Watt-DC-to-AC-Power-Adaptor.html) comes in handy.

You can plug it right into any car lighter, and then plug any traditional electronic device right into it (as long as it's not something that pulls too much power -- such as a space heater -- or you'll blow a fuse in the car fuse-box).

As a rule of thumb.....you should have one in the dashboard of each vehicle you own (in case you're far from home in a disaster or other emergency). Consider also keeping one in your back pack -- if you have a "bug out" bag pre-stocked with emergency supplies.....

With your car adaptor you can re-charge any cell phone (that you have a wall outlet plug-in for), as well as plug in small lights, and even a small radio.

*Don't run these things for too long though, or you'll risk draining your car battery.

`In fact, if you have a good supply of gas, turn your car on and let it idle so as to recharge your battery.... or... better yet..only plug in the adaptor when the car is actually turned on and idling. This way you won't risk the repeated draining of your car battery ending it's life.....

`In an evacuation, or when traveling cross country through a disaster zone, you can also use your adaptor to draw power from abandoned vehicles you come across (be sure to choose vehicles that are clearly not going to be driven by anyone anytime soon). ...

`Some of you will say: I already have a car adaptor for my cell phone. A lot of people don't though. You can also run your laptop off this adaptor, other mobile devices, or even a drop-light on an extension chord, so you have electric light outside your vehicle (if you're camping out of your car or truck).


*Mini Torch



.....If you do any camping, then you're well familiar with the propane camp stoves and also the small propane fuel bottles that come with many brands, such as Coleman camping gear. One very useful survival tool is a Blazer Self-Igniting Butane Micro-Torch (http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/gear/Blazer-Self-Igniting-Butane-Micro-Torch.html), which connects to the top of a small butane canister.

This micro-torch is going to make starting a fire a piece of cake, even in relatively wet conditions. Plus you can also "improvise" and cook with it.

Tip: Set the propane canister down and hang a pot of water over the flame -- far enough away that the metal doesn't melt, but still gets hot enough to bring the water in the pot to a boil. With a flame that produces heat approximately 2500 degrees Fahrenheit, you can have water boiling within a short amount of time.

A micro-torch is a great way to quickly dry out damp kindling and then get a fire going with small pieces of wood. Never use in an enclosed area. A micro-torch of any kind produces carbon monoxide. Be in an area that has adequate ventilation.


**Shot Gun and Ammunition to Protect Life....


`Whether it's bears, cougars, or loose, dangerous dogs, consider having a shot gun and plenty of ammunition to protect yourself against wild animals that may have come down from the hills, or simply were freed from fenced enclosures because it just so happens that there's an exotic animal keeper that lives within your community who's pens are now destroyed, and animals let loose on the land...... Sound far fetched? This is exactly what happened in Ohio in October, 2011, when -- instead of a disaster striking -- the owner became suicidal and decided to take his own life, but first let his collection of about 50 wild animals loose on the community (these animals included full size lions, bears, panthers, and wolves.) See: U.S. News: Dozens of Exotic Animals Set Loose in Ohio (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/10/20/dozens-of-exotic-animals-set-loose-in-ohio) as well.
A shot gun is nice because when shooting simply "shot", you don't have to have perfect aiming skills; just point the gun in the direction of the animal (or thug) that's attempting to take your life, and pull the trigger.```



**Siphon Hose / Pump



`Though the roads are mangled and for the most part un-driveable, you've still found a use for your vehicle.

`You've been able to turn the car on and let it idle, and send battery power to your DC to AC adaptor mentioned earlier in this article.

But then after a few days of idling for a few minutes at a time, you're running low on gas, and now it's time to think about re-fueling.
....Sure you can siphon gas from abandoned cars the old fashioned way using just your mouth and part of a hose, but I don't recommend that.
...Siphoning gas by mouth is dangerous. Ameriburn.org warns that acidentally swallowing gas while siphoning can be fatal. A better, safer method of siphoning gas is to use a siphon hose with pump (http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/gear/Gas-Siphon-Hose-with-Pump.html) if, like many, you don't like the idea of accidentally swallowing fuel, or simply getting it in your mouth....

**Survival tip: There are likely a handful of people in your community who are going to recognize early on that gas is now going to be hard to come by.

If you want to grab gas from abandoned or destroyed vehicles, you may want to have a plan in place early on to do just that.

......Or someone else is going to beat you to it. First, you're going to need fuel containers. If you do a good job preparing for disaster, and managed to fill a number of empty tanks of gasoline, you are now sitting on a hot commodity and a target for thieves, even thieves willing to resort to violence. ...Stealth will be called for:
`In this situation that means the ability to keep your tanks concealed, as well as the ability to retrieve fuel from abandoned or destroyed cars. Figure out ways to do this without calling attention to yourself. You may need to work with other people, set up look-outs, etc.`



***Work Gloves


`In a disaster situation, there's a great chance you'll be picking through debris as you clean up your home, and help with the clean ups of your neighbors.

This means you'll be dealing with sharp pieces of wood, glass, even plastic, and then of course nails and maybe even chemicals (might want to have some rubber gloves around as well, especially around gas).

`Then there's the possible rescue attempts of people that may be trapped under the rubble of buildings in town, or even homes that have simply been shook apart by this violent earthquake. A good pear of work gloves will help protect your hands.

Work gloves are a handy item to consider having multiples pairs of, because there are going to be people thankful when you start passing them out.

Choose colors that are dark, not a flashy yellow or red, because those kind of colors just call out to crooks who may simply want to take them.

As the days and weeks progress, and resources become slim, and it's obvious no recovery is taking place -- and of course crooks are out and on the prowl -- consider this a time for stealth. Throw on some old, weathered, torn gloves over the top of your good work gloves. Throw some duct tape on the fingers of the old gloves.

`Just maybe no one will want the gloves your wearing, which means you get keep the good ones underneath.

If you live in an area that is hit by cold winters, then cold weather work gloves (http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/gear/Cold-Weather-Work-Gloves.html) are called for as well.
.....Your fingers will begin to freeze within just a few minutes of working in cold, wet snow -- you will hate the fact that you don't have cold weather work gloves on. Plus, your hands won't be any use in just a few short minutes of working in the cold.

*More to come later...feel free to add your own ideas for tools...

[gabosaurus]

I was talking earlier today with a woman who grew up in Northern Indiana. She got married and had two kids. After one winter too many, the family moved here to Orange County.
Her husband drove a delivery truck. He was on his way back from Chicago once and got stuck in a snow storm. Police had shut down roads for being impassable. His supervisor called him twice and warned that if his load was not delivered by the end of the day, he would be fired. When it didn't happen, he lost his job.
I often wonder how many situations like this lead to all the vehicles getting stuck in snow and flooding.

There is one condition that the most ardent survivalist can never prepare for -- human frailty. Stress and isolation can cause total physical and mental breakdown of the most hardy of individuals. If you have a group of people who are prepared for the worst, chances are some of them are going to snap. Then you have to fight the most feared enemy of all, dissension and inner conflict.

[Jeff]

I was talking earlier today with a woman who grew up in Northern Indiana. She got married and had two kids. After one winter too many, the family moved here to Orange County. Her husband drove a delivery truck. He was on his way back from Chicago once and got stuck in a snow storm. Police had shut down roads for being impassable. His supervisor called him twice and warned that if his load was not delivered by the end of the day, he would be fired. When it didn't happen, he lost his job. I often wonder how many situations like this lead to all the vehicles getting stuck in snow and flooding. There is one condition that the most ardent survivalist can never prepare for -- human frailty. Stress and isolation can cause total physical and mental breakdown of the most hardy of individuals. If you have a group of people who are prepared for the worst, chances are some of them are going to snap. Then you have to fight the most feared enemy of all, dissension and inner conflict. Gabs I would be willing to bet there is more to this story, I spent 25 years on the road and only seen the roads close a handful of times. I drove a tractor trailer not a delivery truck ( which usually doesn't do to much long distance ) The reason I bring this up is because chances are his supervisors knew just what the weather was like, I can remember heading to Boston and my dispatcher calling me as I was entering Connecticut to let me know they where shutting the highways in CT. See if they are hauling there own product or if they hauling a customers product a trucks holds thousands of dollars of product in some cases 100's of thousands, and only a idiot would take a chance of wrecking and not getting the load delivered. I have pulled over on my own when I felt it was to dangerous and I have had the dispatcher call and let me know that it was so bad in the area I was heading that there wasn't going to be anyone there to unload me when I got there, a real company keeps up on this or they usually go out of business real quick. After all if it is so bad they are shutting down highways then most bossiness close anyway.

[Kathianne]

Gabs I would be willing to bet there is more to this story, I spent 25 years on the road and only seen the roads close a handful of times. I drove a tractor trailer not a delivery truck ( which usually doesn't do to much long distance ) The reason I bring this up is because chances are his supervisors knew just what the weather was like, I can remember heading to Boston and my dispatcher calling me as I was entering Connecticut to let me know they where shutting the highways in CT. See if they are hauling there own product or if they hauling a customers product a trucks holds thousands of dollars of product in some cases 100's of thousands, and only a idiot would take a chance of wrecking and not getting the load delivered. I have pulled over on my own when I felt it was to dangerous and I have had the dispatcher call and let me know that it was so bad in the area I was heading that there wasn't going to be anyone there to unload me when I got there, a real company keeps up on this or they usually go out of business real quick. After all if it is so bad they are shutting down highways then most bossiness close anyway.

I'm with you Jeff. Having a lifetime of memories of Northern IL, there hasn't been a time where travel was totally shut down, officially.

There may be roads closed, but in general, alternative roads are given, including police directions.

This mostly occurs with flooding, not snow. With snow you may have roads closed due to accidents, again alternates will be given.

[Jeff]

I'm with you Jeff. Having a lifetime of memories of Northern IL, there hasn't been a time where travel was totally shut down, officially.

There may be roads closed, but in general, alternative roads are given, including police directions.

This mostly occurs with flooding, not snow. With snow you may have roads closed due to accidents, again alternates will be given.

Your exactly right Kat, yes roads have been stopped dead many times due to accidents, but honestly I was always told that they couldn't shut a road down. But then while heading to Boston, where they where saying up to 52" where going to fall ( the blizzard started in VA, right on top of Fancy Gap) by the time I got the call I was up around mid PA and there was about 22" on the ground) and my dispatcher called and said CT was shutting down all Interstates. Honestly that is the only time I can remember any state shutting down roads, for snow anyway, yes even in NJ we shut roads down in certain places because of floods.

Now I do have a lot of friends that wanted me to know how bad of a storm they rode through and would tell me how they where just ahead of the road being shut down :laugh: or I know a few that where afraid to drive in the snow that tried that excuse as well, they found another career right quick. :laugh:

[SassyLady]

Looking on the bright side (.. yes, I think there is one ..) .. one thing I think you can rely on is the unfitness of Lefties to in any way address the reality that would exist.

Lefties only see the reality that they prefer to see. They'd therefore never dream of preparing for any reality not already in their worldview.

Consequently, none would be around to promote their .. 'philosophy'. Somehow, I don't think I'd miss that too much ... :rolleyes:

They don't need to prepare ... they are just going to come take what we have.

[Kathianne]

They don't need to prepare ... they are just going to come take what we have.
and somehow I think you will be ready for them. ;)

[SassyLady]

I'm all set. We didn't really build the cabin for that purpose, but it was a secondary concern.

If Doomsday were to hit, I think roughly half the population would simply wait around in the ruins waiting for someone to come rescue them. That doesn't seem very appealing, but really, what kind of survival skills would your typical city dweller have? Other than rampant looting, I don't think there's any other options. They'll all have really cool Nike shoes, but once the potato chips run out it will get pretty grim.

My biggest concern in that scenario is gasoline. That would truly become worth it's weight in gold in short order. Sure, I've got axes and hand saws, but the boat, ATVs and vehicles need gas and you can't store gas for more than 2 years or so & still be usable, even with stabilizers. And stockpiling 2 years of gas is unfeasible. Every gas station would quickly become heavily defended by a group of people... if they had the foresight to bring a generator to power the pumps, that is. Hard to get the gas out of the underground tanks without that.

I don't think ammo is as big of a concern as the gas. You can stockpile ammo and reloading is no big deal if you have the equipment.

In Tucson, I have 4 acres of desert with tons of sunshine ..... solar panel field .... planning on getting solar powered generators. There are so many people down there with solar panels selling power back to the power companies ... might be a source of income if total anarchy doesn't break out. Might even have to get a solar powered vehicle.

NT ... for you ... get dog sled instead of ATVs. Sailboat. There are all types of sources of power other than gasoline. You're a innovative guy and you'll find a way.

[SassyLady]

I guess the most popular prevailing cause of Doomsday is nuclear war.

You guys remember when Chernobyl went down? I remember reading in the papers that the whole area was going to be an uninhabitable wasteland for hundreds of years, according to every "Expert" they could find to quote. There was much hand-wringing going on from every quarter - except from the Soviets, who promptly sent in hundreds of peasants to try and mitigate it.

The radiation levels went down much, much faster than anyone thought it would. It's still not healthy to be around there for very long, but it's no where near as bad as everyone said it was going to be years down the road.

I really don't think all the talk about radiation levels, fallout and nuclear winter would be as horrific in the long term as all the experts say it would. Mother earth has a way of fixing things pretty efficiently to bring back balance.


My own opinion of the most likely cause is a plague of some sort... like Stephen King's 'The Stand' or something along those lines. We all saw how Ebola spread, even when the entire world was aware of what was going on in Africa, and yet our idiot leaders allowed unrestricted air travel, and even sent some military troops there. Then, infected medical personnel - who knew they were possibly infected - still went out in public because they wanted to. Sheer stupidity, and if it had mutated to become airborne infectious, THEN we would have had a big problem.

I'm of the opinion it will be a nuclear bomb that creates an EMP (or a massive solar flare). Thus my plan for power grid failure (sabotage is another avenue for power grid failure).

[SassyLady]

Jeff. :laugh: I am betting I won't be around when something like that takes place. My biggest concern is for our six grandchildren, our son's, and how they will survive in a TRUE WORLD FULL OF ASSHOLES.?

I worry about my children and grandchildren having to survive in the world in the next 20 years even without a SHTF scenario. My son-in-law has been seriously looking for a piece of remote property that already has a compound built (where family extended family can go) or one that we all can contribute to. One of the reasons I'm moving to AZ is so that I'm not that far away from family.

[SassyLady]

and somehow I think you will be ready for them. ;) The hard part will be refusing help to the children. They are going to be the innocent victims of their parents not prepping.

As I've mentioned before ... I have two bug out bags with identical items just in case I can't get home for a couple of days.

We have lots of horses (for transportation if needed), sheep, goats and cattle out here and a lot of people have chickens and rabbits. Both reproduce exponentially and are easy to kill and prep. As for the larger animals, having a supply of ammunition is just for protection.

Sorry Abbey, but protein will be essential to survival.

LTG ... another good tool to have is wire chain saw in your bug out bag.

The one thing I don't have in my vehicles is guns for protection. Just don't have enough guns and ammo at this time to keep in the house and in the vehicles. Plus, CA is freaky about guns in cars.

It also concerns me that my dog might not be with me when the SHTF.

Gabby ... I will definitely have PTSD if I have to go through chocolate withdrawals.

[Jeff]

The hard part will be refusing help to the children. They are going to be the innocent victims of their parents not prepping.

As I've mentioned before ... I have two bug out bags with identical items just in case I can't get home for a couple of days.

We have lots of horses (for transportation if needed), sheep, goats and cattle out here and a lot of people have chickens and rabbits. Both reproduce exponentially and are easy to kill and prep. As for the larger animals, having a supply of ammunition is just for protection.

Sorry Abbey, but protein will be essential to survival.

LTG ... another good tool to have is wire chain saw in your bug out bag.

The one thing I don't have in my vehicles is guns for protection. Just don't have enough guns and ammo at this time to keep in the house and in the vehicles. Plus, CA is freaky about guns in cars.

It also concerns me that my dog might not be with me when the SHTF.

Gabby ... I will definitely have PTSD if I have to go through chocolate withdrawals.

Don't worry about the guns, I will bring mine ( seeing as we are going to be roommates :laugh:) as for CA being freaky, it wont take but about a couple of hours for the liberal dweebs to fall off after any kind of major issue ( without having Obama to tell them what to do they will fall apart and I am sure communication will come to a halt ) So with the freaks gone so will be the freaky laws.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

My survival plan if/when SHTF is to stand my ground, protect my home and kill every son a bitch that comes to take from or harm me and mine!
Trust me on this, I can stand against any ramble and knock off a hundred or so and have not the slightest hesitation in doing that.
All one needs is the weapons, ammo and expertise in use of same.
Nobody in their right mind would say it would be easy or that they be sure 100% of surviving but taking out as many as possible of the damn government leeches that would rape , rob , murder and steal as soon as all hell broke loose is the next best thing.
Come to think of it, many of those ffing government(black/illegals, drug infested vermin ) leeches are already raping, robbing, murdering and stealing even now before all hell has come down..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

My survival plan if/when SHTF is to stand my ground, protect my home and kill every son a bitch that comes to take from or try harm me and mine!
Trust me on this, I can stand against any ramble and knock off maybe a hundred or so and have not the slightest hesitation in doing that.
All one needs is the weapons, ammo and expertise in use of same.

Nobody in their right mind would say it would be easy or that they be sure 100% of surviving but taking out as many as possible of the damn government leeches that would rape , rob , murder and steal as soon as all hell broke loose is the next best thing IMHO.
Come to think of it, many of those ffing government(black/illegals, drug infested vermin ) leeches are already raping, robbing, murdering and stealing even now before all hell has come down..--Tyr

[NightTrain]

NT ... for you ... get dog sled instead of ATVs. Sailboat. There are all types of sources of power other than gasoline. You're a innovative guy and you'll find a way.

Oh yeah, for winter time travel a dogsled would definitely be the ticket. Been there, done that. It's a huge job to feed 10 or 12 dogs all year round, but that's just how it is. The real problem is that for a dog team, they have to have a packed trail - otherwise they're wallowing in snow that's sometimes 7 feet deep.

So back in the day, I would strap on snowshoes and stomp a 20-mile trail down the river. The new trail would not be usable by dogs until the compacted snow "sets up" (hardens) overnight. The next day it was a concrete-hard trail, and I'd generally get about 2 or 3 miles per day making the trail. It really sucked when we'd get another dump of snow and the whole process would start all over again.

Another big problem we encountered was that every moose in the area would get onto our trail, because they didn't like wallowing in snow up to their necks - that takes a lot of energy. So they'd hang out on our trail and would get very aggressive... so we'd have a mexican standoff - we couldn't get around them, and they wouldn't get off the trail. We ate a lot of moose. :happy0203:

Solar would definitely be the order of the day, along with a water wheel generator for the summer months.

As far as sailboats... that's not feasible. The Talkeetna River is a very shallow, fast running glacial river - the current is about 16 miles per hour. My jet boat can run in a couple inches of water, but I have to be moving at a very high rate of speed - the faster you go, the less water you draw.

Here's a video clip that Sharon took last summer in a section of river about halfway up to the cabin. I'm maneuvering left and right because I'm keeping the boat in the deepest water available and if I didn't, we would hit the bottom and get stuck on a gravel bar... and that sucks. At the 1:16 mark on this video, you can hear me hammer the throttle because we're going over a spot that's about 2 inches deep and I want the boat to be as high in the water as possible :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aq6BwTfwQ20" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So as you can see, I need the 300 horsepower in that boat! Getting there overland is impossible, because of ravines, other tributaries and generally impassible terrain. I've walked out before, but it took 2 full days of risky and incredibly difficult physical exertion - and that's back when I was one tough unit.

[aboutime]

As Johnny Carson once described it, many years ago on TV.

My "Plan B", at this point in my life is.

Finding Two Chipmunks, tying ropes to each of their tails, and the other ends to each of my legs.

Then, someone shoots a SHOTGUN that makes the Chipmunks run for their holes,

and I GET BURIED instantly!

PLAN B ANYONE?:laugh:

[gabosaurus]

My survival plan if/when SHTF is to stand my ground, protect my home and kill every son a bitch that comes to take from or harm me and mine!
Trust me on this, I can stand against any ramble and knock off a hundred or so and have not the slightest hesitation in doing that.
All one needs is the weapons, ammo and expertise in use of same.
Nobody in their right mind would say it would be easy or that they be sure 100% of surviving but taking out as many as possible of the damn government leeches that would rape , rob , murder and steal as soon as all hell broke loose is the next best thing.
Come to think of it, many of those ffing government(black/illegals, drug infested vermin ) leeches are already raping, robbing, murdering and stealing even now before all hell has come down..

Not if I blow up your house first. It's not difficult to make an explosive. It's something I learned in college. :cool:

[aboutime]

Not if I blow up your house first. It's not difficult to make an explosive. It's something I learned in college. :cool:


Sounds very much like a veiled threat to me gabby. You sound like the Anarchist, Hippy, Ayres follower we all suspected you might be...out there in Hollyweirdland. Which is all of the state to most of us.

How would you like a visit from the FBI, or DIA soon, after making such threats like Democrats who instantly apologize after intentionally claiming they MIS-SPOKE?

[gabosaurus]

There was nothing "veiled" about it. :cool:

[aboutime]

There was nothing "veiled" about it. :cool:


You sound as dumb as Al Sharpton now. Bragging about a threat.

[Drummond]

Not if I blow up your house first. It's not difficult to make an explosive. It's something I learned in college. :cool:

Life is cheap to a Leftie.

Gabby, certainly so far as I am concerned, there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed on a public forum such as this. Suggesting the blowing up of another debate member's house, is surely one of them !!!

Decency should tell you this, and be your guide. It testifies to your mindset and the worth of your civic beliefs and standards, does it not, that you have not perceived that for yourself.

[NightTrain]

Not if I blow up your house first. It's not difficult to make an explosive. It's something I learned in college. :cool:


That was over the line. Knock that shit off.

[gabosaurus]

You do realize, of course, that we are talking about a doomsday survivalist scenario and not current real life. :rolleyes:

You can have a shelter full of weapons and supplies and be all set to take on a straight forward attack. Until someone comes against you with a launcher and a few pipe bombs.

Some of you take this board WAY too seriously. :rolleyes:

[LongTermGuy]

`Some` Liberals have no clue about preparedness and survival.....maybe thats a good thing:laugh:

http://i2.wp.com/www.horrorsociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Elvira-010.gif?w=600

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-osRJhVpyMuk/UVycMiHBTGI/AAAAAAAAFgc/32yNGnRBVFk/s1600/Gumby+Apocalypse.gif

[aboutime]

You do realize, of course, that we are talking about a doomsday survivalist scenario and not current real life. :rolleyes:

You can have a shelter full of weapons and supplies and be all set to take on a straight forward attack. Until someone comes against you with a launcher and a few pipe bombs.

Some of you take this board WAY too seriously. :rolleyes:



No Gabby. It is you who takes this board too seriously. And, when you use the standard, liberal, Democrat word games as you have, sounding like all the Miss-spoken, apologists who said things, then, instantly apologized saying they DIDN'T MEAN IT...makes you just as DISHONEST as Obama, and his Liar's Club members. Of which, you are obviously, trying to gain the presidency.

[SassyLady]

Oh yeah, for winter time travel a dogsled would definitely be the ticket. Been there, done that. It's a huge job to feed 10 or 12 dogs all year round, but that's just how it is. The real problem is that for a dog team, they have to have a packed trail - otherwise they're wallowing in snow that's sometimes 7 feet deep.

So back in the day, I would strap on snowshoes and stomp a 20-mile trail down the river. The new trail would not be usable by dogs until the compacted snow "sets up" (hardens) overnight. The next day it was a concrete-hard trail, and I'd generally get about 2 or 3 miles per day making the trail. It really sucked when we'd get another dump of snow and the whole process would start all over again.

Another big problem we encountered was that every moose in the area would get onto our trail, because they didn't like wallowing in snow up to their necks - that takes a lot of energy. So they'd hang out on our trail and would get very aggressive... so we'd have a mexican standoff - we couldn't get around them, and they wouldn't get off the trail. We ate a lot of moose. :happy0203:

Solar would definitely be the order of the day, along with a water wheel generator for the summer months.

As far as sailboats... that's not feasible. The Talkeetna River is a very shallow, fast running glacial river - the current is about 16 miles per hour. My jet boat can run in a couple inches of water, but I have to be moving at a very high rate of speed - the faster you go, the less water you draw.

Here's a video clip that Sharon took last summer in a section of river about halfway up to the cabin. I'm maneuvering left and right because I'm keeping the boat in the deepest water available and if I didn't, we would hit the bottom and get stuck on a gravel bar... and that sucks. At the 1:16 mark on this video, you can hear me hammer the throttle because we're going over a spot that's about 2 inches deep and I want the boat to be as high in the water as possible :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aq6BwTfwQ20" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

So as you can see, I need the 300 horsepower in that boat! Getting there overland is impossible, because of ravines, other tributaries and generally impassible terrain. I've walked out before, but it took 2 full days of risky and incredibly difficult physical exertion - and that's back when I was one tough unit.

Now I know why I love you!!! Anyone that can drive a jet boat up/down a nasty river like that with all those obstacles in the water is my type of man. Thank Sharon for the ride along. Brought back memories of water skiing up one of the rivers at Lake Shasta! The further up we went the more narrow and more debris.

[revelarts]

In graduate psychology, we did a unit about this. We called it "the doomsday exercise."
I am certain that preppers have done all their homework on the physical side. They have shelter, supplies, ammo, all the basics. But how would you deal with PTSD following a conflict? How about the stress involved with isolation and sensory deprivation? How will you cope with a sudden lifestyle change, or the possible loss of one or more family members?

simple question
Do you deal with all the emotional side easier if you have food water and a decent safe place to stay
or if your on the streets without any of those things?

[darin]

I have never known anyone with a house strong enough to protect them from more than about 1 person with a decently-powered rifle.

5.56 vs wood house? 5.56 wins.

7.62 vs wood house? 7.62 wins.

vs brick? same thing.


You want a secure house? take out the insulation and stuff the space with sandbags, or pay for very-expensive ballistic panels. Don't forget to board up and sand the windows and doorways.

Probably best to set up OP or engagement point away from the house. Put even a decently-trained rifleman at 200 yards with open sights and your house will be riddled with 'death'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQRmHVTze-g

And 19" of wood/fiber vs 5.56 and 7.62 -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfXsp5cNTno

[darin]

Hope this thread stays current! good info here.

[LongTermGuy]

​*Some good reading...if interested...

`...The Survival Mind - How to Develop The Will to Survive...`

`Some people crack under sudden pressure and fear. Even soldiers, even cops. What about you? Facing a conflict or following a major disaster, your life may be on the line. The decisions you make next could cost you or someone else your lives. ......`


`Fear is a response to sudden or perceived danger. The larger the danger and the suddenness or unexpectedness of it, the greater the level of fear that can flood your mind........`

`If you're not trained to respond to fear, it can overwhelm you fast. This is fear that even you, dear confident reader, might not be truly prepared for. Everything you think you know may go out the window. And then you crack.Or maybe it's your neighbors, following a major disaster. Your neighbors "lose it". Maybe it's the local police.....`



***How do Special Forces soldiers keep a level head at a time when other people would crack?

For one, they're pushed to the limits of physical endurance, where they learn to "disassociate" from the pain and discomfort of physical training.

That means they're mentally able to re-focus their minds (or make an effort to re-focus their minds) to something else. By doing this, they disassociate.
.....Steve Smith, former Navy SEAL, says in this article on
the mental toughness of Spec Ops (http://www.military.com/military-fitness/navy-special-operations/mentally-tough-power-of-mind-in-spec-ops-training) soldiers, "The ability to disassociate should not be confused with the disassociate disorder often caused by traumatic events, but rather realized as a method to endure long, painful, uncomfortable, and tiring events like Hell Week or cold water exposure."


**Disassociate from Fear Fear in the wake of disaster or sudden danger can drive you to make bad decisions, like curling up into the fetal position on the ground, when you actually should be fighting for your very life, or running in the opposite direction, right at that moment, if you want to live through whatever is taking place.
The challenge is to think tactically, when confronted with fear. Tactically, for newcomers here, means to make strategic decisions, sometimes in the heat of the moment, and often in the military refers to tactical operations (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/powerpoint/Tactical_and_Survival_Presentations/tactical-operations-2.shtml).....

Times of High Stress and or Physical Endurance


What causes people to crack and give up, sometimes abruptly, when others still have the ability to push on?

`For some, mental stress or physical discomfort or pain is just too much, or mounts too quickly, and their brains make the conscious decision to simply quit. They give up. They can't go on. It's just too difficult.
Or there's too much fear and they freeze.
In some situations, this is where death may now be imminent.


What a person lacks in this situation is the will to survive. This means you give up -- and possibly die -- rather than overcome your fear (by disassociating from it), or fight on through the pain and discomfort of physical endurance (by also disassociating from it), and live to see another day.....








Fear and the Will to Survive
A lot of people go through life without giving any thought to either one.The lack of a will to survive is a psychological process that can kill you. Throughout history, people have either lived or died when placed in a perilous survival situation.
What is Fear?

Fear is a response to sudden or perceived danger. The larger the danger and the suddenness or unexpectedness of it, the greater the level of fear that can flood your mind. If you're not trained to respond to fear, it can overwhelm you fast. This is fear that even you, dear confident reader, might not be truly prepared for. Everything you think you know may go out the window. And then you crack.Or maybe it's your neighbors, following a major disaster. Your neighbors "lose it". Maybe it's the local police.
Disassociation -- How Spec Ops Soldiers Keep a Level Head in Times of Danger

How do Special Forces soldiers keep a level head at a time when other people would crack? For one, they're pushed to the limits of physical endurance, where they learn to "disassociate" from the pain and discomfort of physical training. That means they're mentally able to re-focus their minds (or make an effort to re-focus their minds) to something else. By doing this, they disassociate.Steve Smith, former Navy SEAL, says in this article on the mental toughness of Spec Ops (http://www.military.com/military-fitness/navy-special-operations/mentally-tough-power-of-mind-in-spec-ops-training) soldiers, "The ability to disassociate should not be confused with the disassociate disorder often caused by traumatic events, but rather realized as a method to endure long, painful, uncomfortable, and tiring events like Hell Week or cold water exposure."


Disassociate from Fear Fear in the wake of disaster or sudden danger can drive you to make bad decisions, like curling up into the fetal position on the ground, when you actually should be fighting for your very life, or running in the opposite direction, right at that moment, if you want to live through whatever is taking place.

The challenge is to think tactically, when confronted with fear. Tactically, for newcomers here, means to make strategic decisions, sometimes in the heat of the moment, and often in the military refers to tactical operations (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/powerpoint/Tactical_and_Survival_Presentations/tactical-operations-2.shtml).


Times of High Stress and or Physical Endurance

What causes people to crack and give up, sometimes abruptly, when others still have the ability to push on? For some, mental stress or physical discomfort or pain is just too much, or mounts too quickly, and their brains make the conscious decision to simply quit. They give up. They can't go on. It's just too difficult.
Or there's too much fear and they freeze.
In some situations, this is where death may now be imminent.
What a person lacks in this situation is the will to survive. This means you give up -- and possibly die -- rather than overcome your fear (by disassociating from it), or fight on through the pain and discomfort of physical endurance (by also disassociating from it), and live to see another day.


Hard Times Can Develop Survivors


...Today, most people live comfortable lives compared to many of our recent ancestors, those who had to suffer through hard times periodically, especially early in life.

Or they had to work their tails off on farms and in factories for decades to support their families.
These hard times early in life can help people develop a will to survive.
There individual experiences are tools that they can tap into in survival situations, survival situations that may cost many their lives otherwise, should they have simply given up, instead of continuing to "push on".



Pushing On and Overcoming Fear


...Pushing on means going out of your comfort zone to reach your goals. Overcoming fear means pushing fear away (for example, by "disassociation") so you can make good, tactical decisions.

What about you? What are you going to tap into? Look at your comfortable life. Are you imprisoned by your comfort zone?


`Breaking Out of Prison`



`Challenge yourself regularly to do new things. You will have to stretch. Maybe you'll exercise more often and with more intensity.

Cut Calories - Maybe you'll go without certain junk foods for longer.

Tackle Charity - Maybe you'll give more of yourself to volunteer work and more money (for those of you with money) to help the poor.

Dirty Jobs - Maybe you'll "lower yourself" to take on tasks that other people shun (community volunteering can open that door, so look around and find ways to challenge yourself, and get out of your comfort zone).

Tougher Excursions - Plan longer, tougher hikes. Carry a little more weight in your pack with each excursion. Purposely plan some hikes in bad weather. Then tough it out. Learn to enjoy your hike, even in the rain and cold (always go prepared, don't get yourself killed because you poorly researched a hike or climb).

No More Excuses - Stop being so analytical. Stop looking for reasons why you can't.

`You can. Now figure out a way to make it happen.

.....Excuses will box you in and trap you in failure. Blow the lid off that box and defy reason. For some, that's a decision to live by faith in God.

`For others, that's the decision to climb Mount Everest with only one arm, surf professionally with only one arm, or play professional sports with only one arm.


Push yourself repeatedly. Dig down deep and push on. Persevere under trial and challenge.
If you haven't faced any hard times or extreme obstacles that have challenged you to persevere and overcome, you may find out the hard way one day that you lack the will to survive.

You might die half-way up a mountain you could of otherwise tackled with ease -- had you been training yourself in the previous weeks and months to push on.

You might drown off shore due to the sudden shock of cold waters when your ship goes under -- and again, sorely lacking in endurance, you just don't have what it takes to swim yourself to shore.

Reckless Decision Making Under Pressure


....At the same time, rational thought in a survival situation when emotions are running high goes out the window.
Flooded with emotions (fear, stress, anger, frustration, bitterness, sorrow, etc.) that you can't control can blind you from thinking clearly and making the correct decisions....


Controlled Adaptation

Like controlled adaption.
You are able to improvise.....Some people can adapt and change directions, but it's because they are pushed and bullied by circumstances.

By giving in to the bully of circumstance, they may be pushed down the wrong path, a path that ultimately leads to either failure, or a lack luster finish.

Push yourself, even if you have to push yourself up a mountain. Don't get pushed down the easy path of failure or surrender.

When up against a dangerous situation, your decisions based on the choices before you can either lead to the success and positive morale of yourself and others, or just the opposite: The death of all.



`A Survivor Will Never Give Up............`

[gabosaurus]

This is what made my maternal great aunt such an incredible person. She survived the bombing of Dresden, the loss of many family members in WWII, the collapse of Germany at the end of the war, and many years in communist East Germany. When my sister and I would ask what drove her, it was always "survival." The simple act of refusing to lay down and die.

It is much the same advice that I give to depressed and overly stressed kids who are approaching their breaking points. Divide everyone you know into "us and them." The cancerous, poisonous types who mean you harm and the few who genuinely want to help you. A great many kids already face a "bunker mentality" with parents or relatives that no longer with to deal with them.

I went to lectures and presentations by special forces members in college. Their level of training and preparedness is remarkable.
I am not sure what branch of the armed forces does this, but I recall hearing of an exercise where trainees are left in thick woods or swamps for a week at a time, with very few supplies, and told to survive or else.

A question once posed in a seminar on mentality -- how would you react to being in harsh, life-threatening circumstances where others have shelters and supplies and you have nothing? Best answer I heard -- figure out a way to take over the shelter.

[darin]

A question once posed in a seminar on mentality -- how would you react to being in harsh, life-threatening circumstances where others have shelters and supplies and you have nothing? Best answer I heard -- figure out a way to take over the shelter

We - (well, you and other liberals and well-meaning soft parents - not me) are raising a generation who will LOSE. THEIR. F'ING. MIND. within about one solid day living the 'harsh' life of 'no power'. Shiedling our kids from hardships makes them soft - hinders resiliency.

[darin]

do we still fear or think about when S hits the Fan? The more I see the rise of socialism the less i want to be connected to our society. Protected-from our society may be the only way to survive.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

do we still fear or think about when S hits the Fan? The more I see the rise of socialism the less i want to be connected to our society. Protected-from our society may be the only way to survive.
I never quit being a prepper. The power could go out, the grocery stores could empty and all hell could break lose, and I'm still pretty well ready. I have my own water well, my own septic, guite a bit of long term food stores, and thousands of rounds of ammo for multiple weapons. I'd survive for quite awhile. The ones that are going to die, and die quick, are the ones in the cities. It would be just a matter of minutes before the roads out of any huge city were jammed to a stall with congestion, fights and wrecks. 99% of the people wanting to flee a city wouldn't make it, and if they can't buy their water and food in a store, they die. Same story with any city the world over. It's not just here in America. The only people that will survive are the country people. Just as Hank Jr. sang long ago... "a country boy can survive."

[darin]

I never quit being a prepper. The power could go out, the grocery stores could empty and all hell could break lose, and I'm still pretty well ready. I have my own water well, my own septic, guite a bit of long term food stores, and thousands of rounds of ammo for multiple weapons. I'd survive for quite awhile. The ones that are going to die, and die quick, are the ones in the cities. It would be just a matter of minutes before the roads out of any huge city were jammed to a stall with congestion, fights and wrecks. 99% of the people wanting to flee a city wouldn't make it, and if they can't buy their water and food in a store, they die. Same story with any city the world over. It's not just here in America. The only people that will survive are the country people. Just as Hank Jr. sang long ago... "a country boy can survive."

Do you have evacuation plans/bug-out plans?

When I drive through the big cities here I wonder what kind of apocalypse it would be; trash piling up - power out; mindless thugs roaming, breaking-in, stealing what they want. Rape, Murder. Even in the outskirts the bullshit would likely find it's way to folks 30 miles from town. Would take probably a squad to protect one homestead - and no homestead would likely survive 6 bad guys with AR-15s and higher. Few people's homes could withstand being shot-at with those weapons. I've thought about filling my walls with sand or sand-bags if I could find a way to have the framing support the weight. Still wouldn't protect me against fire, however. I'd have to plan to run if confronted, I think. OR link up with you so at least there's TWO of us against the world. :)

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Do you have evacuation plans/bug-out plans?

When I drive through the big cities here I wonder what kind of apocalypse it would be; trash piling up - power out; mindless thugs roaming, breaking-in, stealing what they want. Rape, Murder. Even in the outskirts the bullshit would likely find it's way to folks 30 miles from town. Would take probably a squad to protect one homestead - and no homestead would likely survive 6 bad guys with AR-15s and higher. Few people's homes could withstand being shot-at with those weapons. I've thought about filling my walls with sand or sand-bags if I could find a way to have the framing support the weight. Still wouldn't protect me against fire, however. I'd have to plan to run if confronted, I think. OR link up with you so at least there's TWO of us against the world. :)
Where I live is where everyone else will want to bug out to. There really isn't anywhere better to go than where I'm at. I'd defend my home to the death, and I have plenty around here to hide behind in a gun fight that will stop a bullet. But I know there's plenty of people here in the this little town that would band together, more than likely the vast majority of the town, and we form our own militia to defend our little burg against invading mobs. We'd set up a perimeter and all take turns defending it, and I'm talking by people with some pretty impressive firepower. We'd also have a main force ready to head for a hot spot if needed. That's one of the good things about living in a small close knit town.

If the food trucks ever stopped delivering food into cities because it was unsafe, roads blocked, etc, then the people in the cities are going to be killing each other over a pack of hotdogs inside of a couple days. Give it a week and most of them will be dead, either starved, no water, or murdered.

And you don't see a lot of people in cities owning an AR-15. Maybe they do, but they're going to need that to defend themselves, let alone try and take off for somewhere outside the city, and do they have a lot of ammo for it just a couple boxes? There might be preppers in the city, but they're plan probably isn't to take off for the country. They're probably thinking defend themselves where they're at, because leaving the city will be virtually impossible.

[STTAB]

I never quit being a prepper. The power could go out, the grocery stores could empty and all hell could break lose, and I'm still pretty well ready. I have my own water well, my own septic, guite a bit of long term food stores, and thousands of rounds of ammo for multiple weapons. I'd survive for quite awhile. The ones that are going to die, and die quick, are the ones in the cities. It would be just a matter of minutes before the roads out of any huge city were jammed to a stall with congestion, fights and wrecks. 99% of the people wanting to flee a city wouldn't make it, and if they can't buy their water and food in a store, they die. Same story with any city the world over. It's not just here in America. The only people that will survive are the country people. Just as Hank Jr. sang long ago... "a country boy can survive."

I'm not a prepper per se, but I could support my family for a long time. We have our own water well and septic, 800 acres of land, a variety of fruit trees, we grow a huge garden every year and can veggies. I have probably a year's supply of frozen meat, plus 300 or so head of cattle, and if things really got desparate we have horses as well. And as for weaponry and ammo, I could arm a small third world country. Have a huge whole house diesel powered generator, along with 2500 gallons of diesel on site..

Not that I think anything like that is going to be needed in my lifetime. Better safe than sorry.

[LongTermGuy]

I'm not a prepper per se, but I could support my family for a long time. We have our own water well and septic, 800 acres of land, a variety of fruit trees, we grow a huge garden every year and can veggies. I have probably a year's supply of frozen meat, plus 300 or so head of cattle, and if things really got desparate we have horses as well. And as for weaponry and ammo, I could arm a small third world country. Have a huge whole house diesel powered generator, along with 2500 gallons of diesel on site..

Not that I think anything like that is going to be needed in my lifetime. Better safe than sorry.

Very nice set-up there STTAB....

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Very nice set-up there STTAB....
If he really has all that and it's not a story... :rolleyes:

300 head of cattle would get stolen, unless you had a small army to protect them inside a bedding barn or something.

[LongTermGuy]

[QUOTE=High_Plains_Drifter;931114]If he really has all that and it's not a story... :rolleyes:

300 head of cattle would get stolen, unless you had a small army to protect them inside a bedding barn or something.[

/QUOTE]

Understand...My comment / complement to him was quick... simple....and carefree...

(Translation I dont need proof and dont care) but happy for him.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have weapons, not going to list what kind. I live out in the hills and my basement in my house all except one very small spot is covered around by dirt several feet thick . I keep about two weeks supply of water on hand. Food amount, can goods etc for about 6 to 8 weeks.
Should it come to it, I'll defend me and mine and kill anybody trying to harm me or mine.
The greatest plus is to already be totally prepared mentally to do just that.....
Likely 95% of people are not that prepared..
And they would not last very long against the worthless mobs rampaging around trying to take from others.
Being willing to shoot attackers and do so without any hesitation is the key to survival in such a scenario, IMHO.--Tyr

[LongTermGuy]

Im prepared....for the last 20 years or so...:laugh:

Plenty of food...water...."medical"...tools...fuel etc.....Lost all my guns...powder and bullet making equip in a flood awhile back....sucks...paid a big price....ahhhh...yes life goes on....:salute:

[darin]

If he really has all that and it's not a story... :rolleyes:

300 head of cattle would get stolen, unless you had a small army to protect them inside a bedding barn or something.

Right. I think there isn't anything about him that is true. I wonder if he gets free shit from stolen valor?


But yeah, I think a two man team of at least semi-capable veterans could destroy or steal 300 cattle without too much trouble; same as even three people with AR15s, and especially if one had an AR10 or shooting 300AAC Blackout (have you seen the semi-auto 30.06? The noreen BN36), could shoot through any house any of us have with probably one or two mags tops. Then there's the burning issue - Molotov cocktails, IEDs, chemical attack, and even straight room-to-room clearing.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Right. I think there isn't anything about him that is true. I wonder if he gets free shit from stolen valor?


But yeah, I think a two man team of at least semi-capable veterans could destroy or steal 300 cattle without too much trouble; same as even three people with AR15s, and especially if one had an AR10 or shooting 300AAC Blackout (have you seen the semi-auto 30.06? The noreen BN36), could shoot through any house any of us have with probably one or two mags tops. Then there's the burning issue - Molotov cocktails, IEDs, chemical attack, and even straight room-to-room clearing.
Yep... 800 acres is not going to be in town or on the edge of town, its going to be out in the middle of nowhere near other very much open land, and that's going to be hard to defend, and if people are starving and they know you have 300 head of cattle, they're going to try and steal one, two, some or the whole damn herd, so it's going to take quite a few people to watch over them and repel any attempts at rustling.

Have I seen the semi-auto 30.06? Yeah, it's called an MI Garand... ;)

I have some armored piercing 30.06 ammo but no 30.06. I often look at them at gun shows, and if I find the right rifle for the right price I'll buy it. I also have, I think it's phosphorous tipped, rounds for my AK, so I could start a house, car, whatever on fire if I shot it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yep... 800 acres is not going to be in town or on the edge of town, its going to be out in the middle of nowhere near other very much open land, and that's going to be hard to defend, and if people are starving and they know you have 300 head of cattle, they're going to try and steal one, two, some or the whole damn herd, so it's going to take quite a few people to watch over them and repel any attempts at rustling.

Have I seen the semi-auto 30.06? Yeah, it's called an MI Garand... ;)

I have some armored piercing 30.06 ammo but no 30.06. I often look at them at gun shows, and if I find the right rifle for the right price I'll buy it. I also have, I think it's phosphorous tipped, rounds for my AK, so I could start a house, car, whatever on fire if I shot it.

No one man can defend 800 acres against a group of men hellbent on taking it and the cattle. Likely would take over a dozen well armed men to defend such a large area-- and then to defend a herd that size-not likely at all, IMHO...
First the herd must be cared for and that would take away much manpower.

I had a very nice M1 carbine that I foolishly sold back in 1987 for 650 dollars..
Have always regretted that. Guy wanted it bad, as he collected M1's.
He had none made by GM, Inland Division. I had paid 50 bucks for it, sold it 4 years later for 650. Just could not pass that up..
I have always wanted a M1 Garand.. Maybe someday if I ever find the right one at the right price. -Tyr

[High_Plains_Drifter]

No one man can defend 800 acres against a group of men hellbent on taking it and the cattle. Likely would take over a dozen well armed men to defend such a large area-- and then to defend a herd that size-not likely at all, IMHO...
First the herd must be cared for and that would take away much manpower.

I had a very nice M1 carbine that I foolishly sold back in 1987 for 650 dollars..
Have always regretted that. Guy wanted it bad, as he collected M1's.
He had none made by GM, Inland Division. I had paid 50 bucks for it, sold it 4 years later for 650. Just could not pass that up..
I have always wanted a M1 Garand.. Maybe someday if I ever find the right one at the right price. -Tyr
I see M1 Carbines at gun shows. $650 is about the going price. Kind of a small bullet.

[darin]

Yep... 800 acres is not going to be in town or on the edge of town, its going to be out in the middle of nowhere near other very much open land, and that's going to be hard to defend, and if people are starving and they know you have 300 head of cattle, they're going to try and steal one, two, some or the whole damn herd, so it's going to take quite a few people to watch over them and repel any attempts at rustling.

Have I seen the semi-auto 30.06? Yeah, it's called an MI Garand... ;)

I have some armored piercing 30.06 ammo but no 30.06. I often look at them at gun shows, and if I find the right rifle for the right price I'll buy it. I also have, I think it's phosphorous tipped, rounds for my AK, so I could start a house, car, whatever on fire if I shot it.


This kicks an M1's ass IMO. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMvvTIKZsZ4


:D