How's France's "multiculturalism"working out for them? Muslim No-Go zones,murders etc

[Little-Acorn]

Some years ago, France's "enlightened" politicians threw the doors open for immigration of foreign Muslims in particular, while providing no requirement for immigrant to assimilate into French society. They apparently felt that having different cultures living side by side would somehow enrich the life experience, or something.

So how's that working out for them? There are hundreds of neighborhoods, districts, and even entire cities where Muslims have taken over, and French people (including cops) are afraid to even go into any more. Plus the occasional mass murder of anyone who dares to criticize Muslims, lampoon the Muslim prophet, etc.

A very sobering video:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/A3YQANdvvbY

The French seem to have a habit of letting murderous, fanatical dictatorships walk right into their country and take it over a piece at a time, with little resistance from the French military or any other part of the French government. It happened in he 1940s, and it's happening again now. Won't the French ever take the hint?

[NightTrain]

Just a guess, but this latest event seems to have woken a lot of them up.

We can only hope.

[Jeff]

If we don't wake up soon this is our future, I agree with NT I hope this was a wake up call for them and for the world, these folks aren't religious, or at least not what we think of when we think of a religion, they are a killing Cult that is and will continue ( as long as we allow it ) to do so.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Some years ago, France's "enlightened" politicians threw the doors open for immigration of foreign Muslims in particular, while providing no requirement for immigrant to assimilate into French society. They apparently felt that having different cultures living side by side would somehow enrich the life experience, or something.

So how's that working out for them? There are hundreds of neighborhoods, districts, and even entire cities where Muslims have taken over, and French people (including cops) are afraid to even go into any more. Plus the occasional mass murder of anyone who dares to criticize Muslims, lampoon the Muslim prophet, etc.

A very sobering video:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/A3YQANdvvbY

The French seem to have a habit of letting murderous, fanatical dictatorships walk right into their country and take it over a piece at a time, with little resistance from the French military or any other part of the French government. It happened in he 1940s, and it's happening again now. Won't the French ever take the hint?

Just 30 years and look how the vermin have mushroomed and at 25% of the population taken over almost completely. The damn liberal French government will not send in its military to stop the takeover--they are now a doomed people.. Good says I cant wait to see justice delivered to the liberal idiots there--when their heads start getting chopped off I am going to laugh at their stupidity, gullibility and elitism that led them to invite in their conquerors--their damn destroyers!
France has no hope of survival unless it starts wholesale shooting of the so-called "radicals" and a massive deportation campaign.
Neither of which they have the gonads to do. Id say they have less that 5 years tops to take extreme and massively harsh measures or else they fall, are enslaved and will die by the millions. A fact.. --Tyr

[LongTermGuy]

Just 30 years and look how the vermin have mushroomed and at 25% of the population taken over almost completely. The damn liberal French government will not send in its military to stop the takeover--they are now a doomed people.. Good says I cant wait to see justice delivered to the liberal idiots there--when their heads start getting chopped off I am going to laugh at their stupidity, gullibility and elitism that led them to invite in their conquerors--their damn destroyers!
France has no hope of survival unless it starts wholesale shooting of the so-called "radicals" and a massive deportation campaign.
Neither of which they have the gonads to do. Id say they have less that 5 years tops to take extreme and massively harsh measures or else they fall, are enslaved and will die by the millions. A fact.. --Tyr


*This is what the Leftist "in power" and their LIBERALISM has brought to the western world......Filthy stinkin Leftist are just as bad as the backward Islam cult / ideology.....

Muslims should be deported and kicked out of the western world...back to their own countries...the so called "good ones" have done nothing except cheer the jihadists ...remain quite and make friends with the infidels to give them false hope.... (and of course breed to get their numbers up)

[sundaydriver]

Just 30 years and look how the vermin have mushroomed and at 25% of the population taken over almost completely. --Tyr

France's population is 13% Muslim..Don't they have enough Muslim problems already without you trying to double it?



:poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

*This is what the Leftist "in power" and their LIBERALISM has brought to the western world......Filthy stinkin Leftist are just as bad as the backward Islam cult / ideology.....

Muslims should be deported and kicked out of the western world...back to their own countries...the so called "good ones" have done nothing except cheer the jihadists ...remain quite and make friends with the infidels to give them false hope.... (and of course breed to get their numbers up)
Exactly.. Those in USA have been held back for the most part to keep alive the GREAT LIE--that Islam is a "religion of peace"!!!


WHEN IT IS A MURDERING CULT!!!

[Drummond]

It's obvious that the recent terror attacks in and around Paris have been quite a shock to the French. I'm in no doubt that all this will give them a great deal of food for thought. Regardless, though, I'm very pessimistic about its leading to any ultimately sensible or properly proportionate outcome.

I suspect that few here, on this forum, fully appreciate how brainwashed people over here are in accepting the 'mainstream Islam is a religion of peace' lie. And with France in particular having such a relatively high percentage of Muslims in its population, there's not the smallest chance that mainstream politicians, in France and across Europe, will ever sell any message saying anything else.

They've been selling it for DECADES, after all.

Likewise the media. They have, and they will, fall in line. It wouldn't have made any difference if the death toll of recent attacks had somehow matched '9/11'. The lie WILL NOT be abandoned. Terrorists will always be regarded as fringe nutcases, never as really representative of Islam.

I gather from a BBC news broadcast that Le Pen pointedly 'wasn't invited' to today's mass rallies in Paris. Whatever his precise motives, Le Pen was the one French politician most likely to be truthful in this situation. But he's being kept on the sidelines, pushed out of public view, to the maximum extent possible.

The lie must continue to be believed, with as many people as possible kept blind to truth that's staring them in the face. Death tolls will make no difference, whatever their size.

The French will indeed have a 'wake up' call ... telling them that there are terrorists out there ! But they will never, in any appreciable numbers, wake up to the full nature of the enemy.

THE LEFT WILL NEVER, EVER, PERMIT IT.

[Drummond]

I've been watching TV broadcasts on our local media (the UK for me, of course). I got fed up with the BBC's PC pap, so I switched over to Sky News.

A short time ago, I heard a commentator come up with one of the most naively preposterous conclusions you could imagine.

I get his intended meaning, of course. But he was still talking rubbish.

He claimed that a show of unity .. of solidarity .. was way more important, more effective altogether, than instituting anti-terrorist security measures !!!

Well now, folks, are you 'impressed' by that ??

Remember, now. If terrorists ever try some more of their terrorism, say, fly some more jet planes into buildings, or go for shooting sprees in public places, or maybe try to hack the head off of some passing serviceman in the street ... the best possible action you can take is to go for a group hug !!!!!

... by Jingo, that'll teach the Muzzies what's what .... !!!

Nice to know that there are media commentators out there living in the REAL world, eh ... ?

Mind you, in a country like France (or the UK), where almost nobody is either armed or capable of effectively arming themselves ... is there a whole lot ELSE you can do ?

[LongTermGuy]

`In the group March of world leaders...just heard that the Palestinian President (who supports Hamas) is involved in the march.....go figure...more Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman)....

​​

[Drummond]

France's population is 13% Muslim..Don't they have enough Muslim problems already without you trying to double it?



:poke:



I thought I'd try checking this out. The reason was that I understand that in the UK, the proportion of Muslims to the rest of the population is around five percent. That said, though, they tend to cluster in the largest cities, so in London, for example, a ten percent estimate is considered to be on the conservative side. It's reasonable to assume that this trend also occurs in French major cities.

See this ...

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4120/islamization-france

... which says ...


The Muslim population of France reached an estimated 6.5 million in 2013.

This estimate would imply that the Muslim population of France is now approximately 10% of the country's total population of around 66 million. In real terms, France has the largest Muslim population in the European Union.

But I've been a little selective in my choice of quotations, Sundaydriver. Even if this SEEMS to support you, rather than Tyr, here's a rather more revealing, certainly far more COMPLETE, representation from that link's page ...


The Muslim population of France reached an estimated 6.5 million in 2013. Although France is prohibited by law from collecting official statistics about the race or religion of its citizens, this estimate is based on the average of several recent studies that attempt to calculate the number of people in France whose origins are from Muslim majority countries.

This estimate would imply that the Muslim population of France is now approximately 10% of the country's total population of around 66 million. In real terms, France has the largest Muslim population in the European Union.

Not surprisingly, Islam and the question of Muslim immigration were an ever-present topic in newspaper headlines during 2013. In practical terms, the debate over Islam in France centered mainly on questions about French identity, secularism and security-related issues.
See the part I've emphasised in red, Sundaydriver ? With this being true, there is obviously just no accurate way of determining just WHAT the true percentage is !! How can anybody really know that Tyr isn't far nearer the truth ??? Yes, it's actually a fact, Sundaydriver, that those in power in France have implemented A BAN on amassing any official data which reports on the race, or religion, of individuals there !!

Do you see that ? Do you see (and yes, I will use this word !) how LEFTIES have so skewed things as to make sure that truths they'd not want to see revealed, remain hidden from public scrutiny ??

[Jeff]

I thought I'd try checking this out. The reason was that I understand that in the UK, the proportion of Muslims to the rest of the population is around five percent. That said, though, they tend to cluster in the largest cities, so in London, for example, a ten percent estimate is considered to be on the conservative side. It's reasonable to assume that this trend also occurs in French major cities.

See this ...

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4120/islamization-france

... which says ...



But I've been a little selective in my choice of quotations, Sundaydriver. Even if this SEEMS to support you, rather than Tyr, here's a rather more revealing, certainly far more COMPLETE, representation from that link's page ...


See the part I've emphasised in red, Sundaydriver ? With this being true, there is obviously just no accurate way of determining just WHAT the true percentage is !! How can anybody really know that Tyr isn't far nearer the truth ??? Yes, it's actually a fact, Sundaydriver, that those in power in France have implemented A BAN on amassing any official data which reports on the race, or religion, of individuals there !!

Do you see that ? Do you see (and yes, I will use this word !) how LEFTIES have so skewed things as to make sure that truths they'd not want to see revealed, remain hidden from public scrutiny ??

I actually heard one reporter say that Muslims where now 25% of the population, the article was about the majority being the minority and they did say Muslims where only at 25%, but no I have done no research nor will I, Personally numbers mean nothing to me when you have area's that you can't go in your own country because you are in fear for your life.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I actually heard one reporter say that Muslims where now 25% of the population, the article was about the majority being the minority and they did say Muslims where only at 25%, but no I have done no research nor will I, Personally numbers mean nothing to me when you have area's that you can't go in your own country because you are in fear for your life.

Check out muslim strongholds in Michigan--they have no go zones here my friend!!!
Our government allows this usurping of our National sovereignty.
We should be asking why it allows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
And marching on Washington to demand that it clear out those stinking muslim terrorist strongholds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Tyr

[Kathianne]

I thought I'd try checking this out. The reason was that I understand that in the UK, the proportion of Muslims to the rest of the population is around five percent. That said, though, they tend to cluster in the largest cities, so in London, for example, a ten percent estimate is considered to be on the conservative side. It's reasonable to assume that this trend also occurs in French major cities.

See this ...

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4120/islamization-france

... which says ...



But I've been a little selective in my choice of quotations, Sundaydriver. Even if this SEEMS to support you, rather than Tyr, here's a rather more revealing, certainly far more COMPLETE, representation from that link's page ...


See the part I've emphasised in red, Sundaydriver ? With this being true, there is obviously just no accurate way of determining just WHAT the true percentage is !! How can anybody really know that Tyr isn't far nearer the truth ??? Yes, it's actually a fact, Sundaydriver, that those in power in France have implemented A BAN on amassing any official data which reports on the race, or religion, of individuals there !!

Do you see that ? Do you see (and yes, I will use this word !) how LEFTIES have so skewed things as to make sure that truths they'd not want to see revealed, remain hidden from public scrutiny ??

Wiki gives several different estimates on the percentages of Muslims in France and other countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France), that were former 'colonies' the source of many of the 'immigrants':


Estimations based on people’s geographic origin[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islam_in_France&action=edit&section=3)]According to the French Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_France), which does not have the right to ask direct questions about religion and uses a criterion of people’s geographic origin as a basis for calculation, there were between 5 to 6 million Muslims in metropolitan France in 2010. The government counted all those people in France who migrated from countries with a dominant Muslim population, or whose parents did. Only 33% of those 5 to 6 million people (2 million) said they were practicing believers. That figure is the same as that obtained by the INED/INSEE study in October 2010.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-plus.lefigaro.fr-7)
The United States Department of State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_State) placed it at roughly 10%,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-8) while two 2007 polls estimated it at about 3% of the total population.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-9) The CIA World Factbook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_World_Factbook) places it at 5–10%.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-10)
A Pew Forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Forum) study, published in January 2011, estimated 4.7 million Muslims in France in 2010 (and forecasted 6.9 million in 2030).[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-Pew2011-11)
According to Jean-Paul Gourévitch (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jean-Paul_Gour%C3%A9vitch&action=edit&redlink=1) (fr (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Gour%C3%A9vitch)), there were 7.7 million Muslims( about 11 percent of the population) in metropolitan France in 2011.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-Jean-Paul_Gour.C3.A9vitch_p.362-13)
An Interior ministry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interior_ministry) source in l'Islam dans la République published the following estimated distribution of Muslims by Alain Boyer by affiliated countries in 1999:[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#cite_note-14)

[Jeff]

Check out muslim strongholds in Michigan--they have no go zones here my friend!!!
Our government allows this usurping of our National sovereignty.
We should be asking why it allows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
And marching on Washington to demand that it clear out those stinking muslim terrorist strongholds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Tyr

I have and I agree, but honestly I would go right on into that area as well as any. When I first moved south I sure enough looked like a Yankee, a guy with 3 earrings and Tattoo's ( they where illegal in SC at that time ) not to mention the NJ accent :laugh: but one day after living in a home for about 2 weeks I was helping the Landlord put insulation on the duct work and he liked how I worked, he told me I was a pretty good guy for a Yank :laugh: ( he was a old timer, a guy that had never been out of the country in SC ) So he felt he would offer me some advise ( being I was a good guy ) and told me what ever I do don't ever go on Sprinkle St in town, he told me the police wont even go there it is so bad, I asked him if that was the road where the DPU was at one end and Pepsi had a plant at the other and it had a few run down businesses in between and he said that's it, I had walked the length of it twice the day before, parked my car at one end and walked it figuring it would be easier than pulling in and out of places, I was job hunting and wanted to put a application in each business.

Tyr I have slept on the streets on NYC, Queens ( Ozone Park ) Chicago, Detroit you name it, Hell I even spent a night or two in Ol Shaky, California ( LA ) I don't shy away from much ( can't think of anything really ) Let's face it when the curtain drops it is done no getting away from it, and further more I have always been one that when told I shouldn't ( couldn't ) go some place that just made me want to go that much more. :laugh:

[sundaydriver]

I thought I'd try checking this out. The reason was that I understand that in the UK, the proportion of Muslims to the rest of the population is around five percent. That said, though, they tend to cluster in the largest cities, so in London, for example, a ten percent estimate is considered to be on the conservative side. It's reasonable to assume that this trend also occurs in French major cities.

See this ...

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4120/islamization-france

... which says ...



But I've been a little selective in my choice of quotations, Sundaydriver. Even if this SEEMS to support you, rather than Tyr, here's a rather more revealing, certainly far more COMPLETE, representation from that link's page ...


See the part I've emphasised in red, Sundaydriver ? With this being true, there is obviously just no accurate way of determining just WHAT the true percentage is !! How can anybody really know that Tyr isn't far nearer the truth ??? Yes, it's actually a fact, Sundaydriver, that those in power in France have implemented A BAN on amassing any official data which reports on the race, or religion, of individuals there !!

Do you see that ? Do you see (and yes, I will use this word !) how LEFTIES have so skewed things as to make sure that truths they'd not want to see revealed, remain hidden from public scrutiny ??

I will stay with the best esitmate of ~13% Muslim. Yes the French do not ask religious affiliation in their census but they DO track the nationalities of immigrants and have a reasonable accounting of the Muslim immigrants and descendents of those. Plus the 200,000 or so native French that have converted. So yes the Muslim population in France is about the same % as Blacks in the USA. And just like here people are concentrated in areas that they can afford.


And European public's wildly overestimate the proportion of their populations that is Muslim: an Ipsos-Mori poll in 2014 found that on average French respondents thought 31% of their compatriots were Muslim, against an actual figure closer to 8%.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/01/daily-chart-2

[Drummond]

Wiki gives several different estimates on the percentages of Muslims in France and other countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France), that were former 'colonies' the source of many of the 'immigrants':

Thanks, Kathianne. In fact, your post does a reasonably good job of confirming my own case. As you quote yourself ....


According to the French Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_France), which does not have the right to ask direct questions about religion and uses a criterion of people’s geographic origin as a basis for calculation ....

This speaks for itself, doesn't it ? So, there is NO, repeat, NO, surefire way to get - & certainly not from French authorities !!! - ANY properly meaningful count of the number of MUSLIMS in France !!

People's geographic origin ... OK, it helps. Perhaps. 'Sort of'. But who's to say, given the criteria France chooses to think is relevant, how many Muslims immigrate to France from, say, any country which is not recognised as 'Muslim rich' in terms of its overall population contingent ?

And consider this, too. The EU applies, as an inviolable principle, a border-free policy for ALL ITS MEMBER STATES. So ... say, for arguments' sake, that just 50,000 Muslims immigrated into France from Britain. Or Ireland. Or Germany ... or, ANY EU State. They'd just be regarded as EU citizens, who might be taking up permanent residency in France, OR NOT.

Would they count towards the Muslim total ... ANY of them ? They'd be immigrating from supposedly 'NON' Muslim countries, and they'd be EU citizens in their own right.

SO THEY'D NOT COUNT TOWARDS ANY OFFICIAL ESTIMATE PRODUCED BY FRANCE.

Try multiplying that 50,000 figure by the number of EU Member States (excluding Turkey as of right now, but in the future ....) currently existing. You're talking in the region of ONE MILLION MUSLIMS which ARE OFFICIALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR.

So I take it that you see the problem ? France's 'Muslim' estimates (.. which it doesn't even officially admit to, since definitively, AND LEGALLY, it CAN'T ..) ARE RENDERED MEANINGLESS. TYR'S OWN ESTIMATE COULD VERY WELL REFLECT THE REALITY OF FRANCE TODAY ...

... OR, INDEED, MANY EU MEMBER STATES TODAY !!

One can only imagine what impact on EU countries Turkey will exert, should it become a fully-fledged EU member State, enjoying nonexistent border limitations with the EU as a whole.

See the contents of ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have and I agree, but honestly I would go right on into that area as well as any. When I first moved south I sure enough looked like a Yankee, a guy with 3 earrings and Tattoo's ( they where illegal in SC at that time ) not to mention the NJ accent :laugh: but one day after living in a home for about 2 weeks I was helping the Landlord put insulation on the duct work and he liked how I worked, he told me I was a pretty good guy for a Yank :laugh: ( he was a old timer, a guy that had never been out of the country in SC ) So he felt he would offer me some advise ( being I was a good guy ) and told me what ever I do don't ever go on Sprinkle St in town, he told me the police wont even go there it is so bad, I asked him if that was the road where the DPU was at one end and Pepsi had a plant at the other and it had a few run down businesses in between and he said that's it, I had walked the length of it twice the day before, parked my car at one end and walked it figuring it would be easier than pulling in and out of places, I was job hunting and wanted to put a application in each business.

Tyr I have slept on the streets on NYC, Queens ( Ozone Park ) Chicago, Detroit you name it, Hell I even spent a night or two in Ol Shaky, California ( LA ) I don't shy away from much ( can't think of anything really ) Let's face it when the curtain drops it is done no getting away from it, and further more I have always been one that when told I shouldn't ( couldn't ) go some place that just made me want to go that much more. :laugh:

You just described me my friend. I was told as a young man several badass places not to go.. I went to all of them and sure enough plenty of bad people were there but if one has the same badass spirit and it shows such people usually see it and act accordingly.
My first experience in a damn wicked place was at Island 35, a no man's land between two states with no law at all.

It was 1971 and that summer I was warned never to go there because the tavern there was a place were many people ended up dead and in the nearby river after being robbed. I went there unarmed and ready to fight. Very few men there spoke a word to me but all of them kept their distance and gave me no grief.. I even drank about 7 brews waiting for somebody to try me but nobody stepped forward. There was gambling and vice there but no trouble that Saturday afternoon. Next weekend a couple minutes after I walked in , a fight broke out and two men were shot. One looked to be dead as they loaded him into the bed of a pickup to drive away, the other was hit in the leg and driven to a hospital. Ten minutes later all was normal as if nothing had occurred.
Old man behind the bar looked at me and said, young man this isn't the place for a young man to hang out. Folks end up dead around here , aint no law here.

I quipped back, " yep, that's what I like about the place--no damn law. We all got to die sometime"....
He was the owner, a mean old SOB but he liked me from that moment on..
Every time I went in there after that he'd say , "the first beer is on me my friend. I like your damn attitude"...

I didnt go there for over a year and returned to find out he wasn't there, had been stabbed and died.
The new owner told me the mean old cuss had tried to put out a troublemaker and got stabbed in the heart.
Died right there a few feet from where you are sitting.
Then asked me are you the young guy he always gave the first beer free? I replied, yep, that's me.
He then told me the former owner, the mean old cuss, was his uncle and never gave beer to any man ,not even him!
I laughed, said, well he liked my damn to hell with it all attitude!
Man just smile, handed me a beer , no charge and said, first one is on me!
I could tell then when he smiled he had that same attitude and understanding that his dead uncle had..
Except he wore his 45 revolver out in the open for all to see, no damn knife wielding jerk gonna get him.
Dude was a chip off of the ole' family block methinks.... :laugh:--Tyr

[Kathianne]

One thing the US does is allow any legal immigrants the possibility of rising on their own merits, regardless of origins or religion. Of course there's discrimination, but it's quite obvious that it's from the lowest segments of those already living here for the most part.

Europe is very different in the main. It's near impossible to become a French citizen for immigrants or German. It's equally difficult to obtain employment, especially for the young and uneducated. The lack of assimilation and high youth unemployment leaves many of these young people ripe for radicalization. (Think of our own "young, male, uneducated, poor;" the mainstay of our prison populations and criminals.)

[Drummond]

One thing the US does is allow any legal immigrants the possibility of rising on their own merits, regardless of origins or religion. Of course there's discrimination, but it's quite obvious that it's from the lowest segments of those already living here for the most part.

Europe is very different in the main. It's near impossible to become a French citizen for immigrants or German. It's equally difficult to obtain employment, especially for the young and uneducated. The lack of assimilation and high youth unemployment leaves many of these young people ripe for radicalization. (Think of our own "young, male, uneducated, poor;" the mainstay of our prison populations and criminals.)

You may have a point about its being difficult to become a French citizen. In all honesty, I don't know, and I may take some time out to check. Nonetheless ... I think you may be overlooking the 'open borders' policy which the EU operates, allowing any citizen of any EU Member State to freely travel from one such State to another, without having the more normal worries of border controls. This, of course, helps with the employment of such citizens in other EU countries.

I can speak for the UK, though, in saying that there've been critical stories in our own press showing concern for just how high the percentage is of jobs being taken by non-British people ... our own people are being squeezed out of the jobs market !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11000624/EU-migrant-employment-rate-outstrips-Britons-say-figures.html


Employment rate for EU nationals in Britain higher and rising faster than that of the indigenous workforce, figures show.

A greater proportion of European Union migrants have jobs in Britain than native citizens, new figures have shown, prompting new concerns about the number of jobs going to the immigrant workforce.

Data from the EU said 75.4 per cent of British citizens aged 20 to 64 were in work last year compared with 79.2 per cent of EU nationals living here.

The figures from Eurostat, the EU’s official statistics unit, will stoke fears that immigrants from the Europe are taking jobs that might otherwise go to British applicants.

It comes in the wake of an official Home Office report which found parts of Britain are "struggling to cope" with high levels of immigration that have put huge pressures on public services such as the NHS, schools and transport.

Steven Woolfe MEP, Ukip's migration spokesman, said: "These stats show the unequal nature of our current migration policy which puts Europeans before Britons, and Europeans before the rest of the world.

You cite employment difficulties as being a cause of radicalisation. Well .. the UK authorities have had great concern over the number of Muslims going to fight for ISIS in places such as Syria. I'm not sure I buy employment (or lack of it) as an important factor, Kathianne, causing such a thing to happen. If it WERE to be one, though ... well, I'd suggest that the EU's open border policy, as well as making movement across Europe so easy, could also be helping to create such radicalisation conditions, for the reason just given.

One way or another, the European Parliament has much to answer for.

[Kathianne]

You may have a point about its being difficult to become a French citizen. In all honesty, I don't know, and I may take some time out to check. Nonetheless ... I think you may be overlooking the 'open borders' policy which the EU operates, allowing any citizen of any EU Member State to freely travel from one such State to another, without having the more normal worries of border controls. This, of course, helps with the employment of such citizens in other EU countries.

I can speak for the UK, though, in saying that there've been critical stories in our own press showing concern for just how high the percentage is of jobs being taken by non-British people ... our own people are being squeezed out of the jobs market !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11000624/EU-migrant-employment-rate-outstrips-Britons-say-figures.html



You cite employment difficulties as being a cause of radicalisation. Well .. the UK authorities have had great concern over the number of Muslims going to fight for ISIS in places such as Syria. I'm not sure I buy employment (or lack of it) as an important factor, Kathianne, causing such a thing to happen. If it WERE to be one, though ... well, I'd suggest that the EU's open border policy, as well as making movement across Europe so easy, could also be helping to create such radicalisation conditions, for the reason just given.

One way or another, the European Parliament has much to answer for.

While I'll not back off from the problems of youth, poverty, and too much time on their hands by being unemployed; you're correct about the problem with open EU borders and from a personal point of view, the US allowing those from UK, France, Germany and certain other EU countries to enter on their passports. Thus someone that has a valid passport may enter the US with minimal hassle or scrutinity.

[Drummond]

While I'll not back off from the problems of youth, poverty, and too much time on their hands by being unemployed; you're correct about the problem with open EU borders and from a personal point of view, the US allowing those from UK, France, Germany and certain other EU countries to enter on their passports. Thus someone that has a valid passport may enter the US with minimal hassle or scrutinity.

We certainly agree on the EU border issue. That whole policy is just asking for trouble .. and wouldn't you know it, the EU Parliament considers its continuation as perhaps THE most immovable policy position they have. Britain has queried it, in consideration of Government pledges made to curb immigration, quite recently .. and the EU has replied with a policy statement showing us total inflexibility. They say that for as long as we remain members of the EU, we must accept that open border policy just as it stands.

I agree that the US badly needs to take an altogether more critical stance when it comes to accepting people within its borders from my part of the world.

As for radicalisation, though, I'm really not willing to accept unemployment as a reasonable factor. Consider past ages, where unemployment was rife within societies .. consider the US of the 1930's. Did the youth of that day decide to slavishly follow the teachings of the Koran and commit terrorist acts because they were unemployed ? Did it even enter their heads to consider it ?

I think not !

No ... other factors are at work leading to 'radicalisation'. Islamists have better chances of disseminating their savage concepts than they've ever had, and this interlocks with a certain predisposition towards a thoroughly subhuman mindset. The point, Kathianne, is that there has to be something within each 'person' which identifies with that subhumanity in the first place .. people don't just turn into bloodlust-crazed savages because they don't have a job !!

[Kathianne]

We certainly agree on the EU border issue. That whole policy is just asking for trouble .. and wouldn't you know it, the EU Parliament considers its continuation as perhaps THE most immovable policy position they have. Britain has queried it, in consideration of Government pledges made to curb immigration, quite recently .. and the EU has replied with a policy statement showing us total inflexibility. They say that for as long as we remain members of the EU, we must accept that open border policy just as it stands.

I agree that the US badly needs to take an altogether more critical stance when it comes to accepting people within its borders from my part of the world.

As for radicalisation, though, I'm really not willing to accept unemployment as a reasonable factor. Consider past ages, where unemployment was rife within societies .. consider the US of the 1930's. Did the youth of that day decide to slavishly follow the teachings of the Koran and commit terrorist acts because they were unemployed ? Did it even enter their heads to consider it ?

I think not !

No ... other factors are at work leading to 'radicalisation'. Islamists have better chances of disseminating their savage concepts than they've ever had, and this interlocks with a certain predisposition towards a thoroughly subhuman mindset. The point, Kathianne, is that there has to be something within each 'person' which identifies with that subhumanity in the first place .. people don't just turn into bloodlust-crazed savages because they don't have a job !!

Really? Perhaps you should look at the ideological interest in socialism, communism and fascism during the late 20's through the 30's.