unlimited access to communications of every American

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI
Taps for Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


..........
According to Congressman Justin Amash, Congress just passed a bill which grants the government and law enforcement “unlimited access to the communications of every American”.



According to Congressman Justin Amash, Congress just passed a bill which grants the government and law enforcement “unlimited access to the communications of every American”.


When the Michigan lawmaker discovered that the Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 2015 had been amended with a provision that authorizes “the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of all communications data from U.S. citizens, he desperately attempted to organize a roll call vote on the bill.


However, the legislation was passed yesterday 325-100 via a voice vote, a green light for what Amash describes as “one of the most egregious sections of law I’ve encountered during my time as a representative”.

The bill allows the private communications of Americans to be scooped up without a court order and then transferred to law enforcement for criminal investigations.


The legislation effectively codifies and legalizes mass warrantless NSA surveillance on the American people, with barely a whimper of debate.


Read the full text of Congressman Amash’s letter below, which was sent out before the bill was passed.

*********************

Dear Colleague:

The intelligence reauthorization bill, which the House will vote on today, contains a troubling new provision that for the first time statutorily authorizes spying on U.S. citizens without legal process.

Last night, the Senate passed an amended version of the intelligence reauthorization bill with a new Sec. 309—one the House never has considered. Sec. 309 authorizes “the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of nonpublic communications, including those to and from U.S. persons. The section contemplates that those private communications of Americans, obtained without a court order, may be transferred to domestic law enforcement for criminal investigations.


To be clear, Sec. 309 provides the first statutory authority for the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of U.S. persons’ private communications obtained without legal process such as a court order or a subpoena. The administration currently may conduct such surveillance under a claim of executive authority, such as E.O. 12333. However, Congress never has approved of using executive authority in that way to capture and use Americans’ private telephone records, electronic communications, or cloud data.


Supporters of Sec. 309 claim that the provision actually reins in the executive branch’s power to retain Americans’ private communications. It is true that Sec. 309 includes exceedingly weak limits on the executive’s retention of Americans’ communications. With many exceptions, the provision requires the executive to dispose of Americans’ communications within five years of acquiring them—although, as HPSCI admits, the executive branch already follows procedures along these lines.

In exchange for the data retention requirements that the executive already follows, Sec. 309 provides a novel statutory basis for the executive branch’s capture and use of Americans’ private communications. The Senate inserted the provision into the intelligence reauthorization bill late last night. That is no way for Congress to address the sensitive, private information of our constituents—especially when we are asked to expand our government’s surveillance powers.

I urge you to join me in voting “no” on H.R. 4681, the intelligence reauthorization bill, when it comes before the House today.

/s/

Justin Amash
Member of Congress


last nail in the coffin.
No good party member was going to elect any president that was REALLY going to rein in the NSA etc domestic spying programs anyway. that'd be to radical and crazy.
But now it's out of the presidents hands. (after Obama signs it, which i'm sure he will) . it will be LAW. Not executive order or 'rouge' agency. But LAW that the U.S. Gov't can spy on every citizen and send info to ANY 'law enforcement' that request it and use it against you.
So basically we are now East Germany on high tech steroids , the secret police full spectrum surveillance is OFFICIALLY here.


They voted 325 to 100 , so don't piss on Obama here, the spying was going on before him.
How did YOUR congress-person vote on this?

I'll be calling mine on monday for all the good it will do. At least it'll be on record somewhere for history.
When they write what happen to the freedoms of the U.S..

they'll vote in Enhanced interrogation techniques for Americans who don't give enough info via phone, the clouds, etc.. in a few years i suspect. I'm told it "works" and "saves lives" why not bring it home?
tell me i'm paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Seems that's what they said years ago when i said the gov't is recording all of phone calls too.

but don't worry it's all for your protection, who needs the bill of rights when you can trust the gov't "just obey the law" "if you've got nothing to hide..." you'll be fine as long as we get a REPUBLICAN to run the show:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

On the same day Feinstein decried the actions of the CIA (infringing on the civil liberties of others by using torture) on the Senate floor, she stealthy added an amendment to an appropriations bill that gives the executive branch and law enforcement agencies virtually unlimited access to the private communications of persons (citizens or non-citizens) in the United States without approval from a judge.
The bill was then rushed to the House floor on Wednesday for a voice-vote without much debate. While Amash went before the House to demand a roll call vote, there was not enough time to stop the bill. It passed 325-100, with 9 lawmakers not voting. Forty-five Republicans and 55 Democrats voted “Nay.”

Here is a list of the 100 lawmakers who voted “Nay.” Was yours one of them? Amash (R-Mich.)
Bass (D-Calif.)
Bentivolio (R-Mich.)
Blumenauer (D-Ore.)
Bonamici (D-Ore.)
Brat (R-Va.)
Bridenstine (R-Okla)
Brooks (R-Ala.)
Broun (R-Ga.)
Burgess (R-Texas)
Chu (D-Calif.)
Clark (D-Mass.)
Clarke (D-N.Y.)
Clawson (R-Fla.)
Cohen (D-Tenn.)
Conyers (D-Mich.)
Cummings (D-Md.)
DeFazio (D-Ore.)
DelBene (D-Wash.)
DesJarlais (R-Tenn.)
Doggett (D-Texas)
Doyle (D-Penn.)
Duncan (R-S.C.)
Duncan (R-Tenn.)
Eshoo (D-Calif.)
Farr (D-Calif.)
Garamendi (D-Calif.)
Garcia (D-Fla.)
Garrett (R-N.J.)
Gibson (R-N.Y.)
Gohmert (R-Texas)
Gosar (R-Ariz.)
Gowdy (R-S.C.)
Graves (R-Ga.)
Grayson (D-Fla.)
Griffith (R-Va.)
Grijalva (D-Ariz.)
Gutiérrez (D-Ill.)
Hahn (D-Calif.)
Hanabusa (D-Hawaii)
Hastings (D-Fla)
Heck (D-Wash.)
Holt (D-N.J.)
Honda (D-Calif.)
Huelskamp (R-Kan.)
Huffman (D-Calif.)
Jackson Lee (D-Texas)
Jones (R-N.C.)
Jordan (R-Ohio)
Kaptur (D-Ohio)
Kildee (D-Mich)
Kingston (R-Ga.)
Labrador (R-Idaho)
Lee (D-Calif.)
Lewis (D-Ga.)
Lofgren (D-Calif.)
Lowenthal (D-Calif.)
Lummis (R-Wyo.)
Massie (R-Ky.)
Matsui (D-Calif.)
McClintock (R-Calif.)
McCollum (D-Minn.)
McDermott (D-Wash.)
McGovern (D-Mass.)
Meadows (R-N.C.)
Mica (R-Fla.)
Moore (D-Wis.)
Mulvaney (R-S.C).
Nadler (D-N.Y.)
Nugent (R-Fla.)
O’Rourke (D-Texas)
Pallone (D-N.J.)
Perry (R-Penn.)
Pocan (D-Wis.)
Poe (R-Texas)
Polis (D-Colo.)
Posey (R-Fla.)
Rangel (D-N.Y.)
Ribble (R-Wis.)
Roe (R-Tenn.)
Rohrabacher (R-Calif.)
Salmon (R-Ariz.)
Sanford (R-S.C.)
Schakowsky (D-Ill.)
Scott, Austin (R-Ga.)
Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.)
Serrano (D-N.Y.)
Speier (D-Calif.)
Stockman (R-Texas)
Swalwell (D-Calif.)
Takano (D-Calif.)
Tierney (D-Mass.)
Tipton (R-Colo.)
Velázquez (D-N.Y.)
Waters (D-Calif.)
Weber (R-Texas)
Welch (D-Vt.)
Woodall (R-Ga.)
Yarmuth (D-Ky.)
Yoho (R-Fla.)
Note: It is not fully clear how many of these lawmakers voted against the bill because of the new Section 309.

http://ivn.us/2014/12/11/congress-quietly-passes-bill-allows-feds-unlimited-access-private-communications/

http://www.teapartytribune.com/2014/12/11/congress-passes-bill-authorizing-collection-private-communications/

[Neo]

Dude...........you're just NOW catching on? Sigh...........Btw. you CAN shield many of your communiques already and more ways to defeat the NSA, and government intrusion, are being developed.

Americans, by our very nature, are a defiant, independent thinking, and CLEVER lot.....dontcha know..cha cha cha..

[revelarts]

Dude...........you're just NOW catching on? Sigh...........Btw. you CAN shield many of your communiques already and more ways to defeat the NSA, and government intrusion, are being developed.

Americans, by our very nature, are a defiant, independent thinking, and CLEVER lot.....dontcha know..cha cha cha..

spread the info Neo.
i'd like as many tools as possible.

[aboutime]

Many will deny it, or laugh at it, or shrug their shoulders but...There are several OLD, but USEFUL ways we can all get around whatever THREATS you feel we have to our communications today.

And, as simple as they sound. They are far more effective to fighting the intrusions everyone is ONLY NOW learning about...as in the Unlimited Spying of the NSA, and our Government.

If anyone is too reliant on today's technology..LIKE THE INTERNET. Facts are. The smart people only need to go back to PRE-INTERNET, PRE-CELL PHONE times when (Don't fall off your chair) We, as Human beings revert back to FACE-TO-FACE, private conversation with other Human beings. And...are you ready for this?

Go back to using a pencil, or pen, writing on paper, using an envelope, and a stamp...sending whatever you feel like saying IN PRIVATE to whoever you want. And the NSA, or OBAMA will never know what you said.

IMAGINE THAT? What a wild idea?

[gabosaurus]

Obviously you haven't read the entire document very well:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr4681#summary/libraryofcongress

[jimnyc]

When the Michigan lawmaker discovered that the Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 2015 had been amended with a provision that authorizes “the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of all communications data from U.S. citizens, he desperately attempted to organize a roll call vote on the bill.

I know this isn't your words, Rev, but was part of your post. so just quoting so all on the same page.


Obviously you haven't read the entire document very well:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr4681#summary/libraryofcongress

I did a search on that page for "acquisition" and "retention" and this is all that came up. Maybe it changed from the time Rev originally posted? But that post states it was a done deal and voted on already? Enacted on Dec 19th...

--------

Section309 -
Requires each element of the intelligence community to adopt Attorney General-approved procedures for any intelligence collection activity not otherwise authorized by court order or subpoena that is reasonably anticipated to result in the acquisition of nonpublic telephone or electronic communications to or from a U.S. person, including communications in electronic storage, without the consent of a person who is a party to the communication.
Requires the procedures to permit acquisition, retention, and dissemination of such communications but prohibit retention in excess of five years unless:
the communication constitutes, or is necessary to understand or assess, foreign intelligence or counterintelligence; the communication constitutes evidence of a crime and is retained by a law enforcement agency; the communication is enciphered or reasonably believed to have a secret meaning; all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-U.S. persons; retention is necessary to protect against an imminent threat to human life (in which case the information must be reported to Congress within 30 days of the date such retention is extended) or for technical assurance or compliance purposes, including a court order or discovery obligation (in which case the information must be reported to Congress annually); or the head of an element of the intelligence community approves retention for a period in excess of five years if necessary to protect U.S. national security.
Requires the head of an element approving retention in excess of five years for national security purposes to certify to Congress:
(1) the reasons extended retention is necessary to protect U.S. national security,
(2) the duration of the retention,
(3) the particular information to be retained, and
(4) the measures being taken to protect the privacy interests of U.S. persons or persons located inside the United States.

[jimnyc]

Then I did a search on: “the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of all communications data from U.S. citizens

And not much comes up, other than sites like infowars, upwardpost, sodahead...

I'm not saying that this bill is great or anything like that, and can still be an overreach, but the one line that makes people want to flip out seemingly is not in the bill.

[jimnyc]

Still not great, but here is the change:

Originally, apparently:


“the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of all communications data from U.S. citizens


Requires each element of the intelligence community to adopt Attorney General-approved procedures for any intelligence collection activity not otherwise authorized by court order or subpoena that is reasonably anticipated to result in the acquisition of nonpublic telephone or electronic communications to or from a U.S. person, including communications in electronic storage, without the consent of a person who is a party to the communication.
Requires the procedures to permit acquisition, retention, and dissemination of such communications but prohibit retention in excess of five years unless:

[revelarts]

Still not great, but here is the change:

Originally, apparently:
SO basically all communications right?

[revelarts]

Many will deny it, or laugh at it, or shrug their shoulders but...There are several OLD, but USEFUL ways we can all get around whatever THREATS you feel we have to our communications today.

And, as simple as they sound. They are far more effective to fighting the intrusions everyone is ONLY NOW learning about...as in the Unlimited Spying of the NSA, and our Government.

If anyone is too reliant on today's technology..LIKE THE INTERNET. Facts are. The smart people only need to go back to PRE-INTERNET, PRE-CELL PHONE times when (Don't fall off your chair) We, as Human beings revert back to FACE-TO-FACE, private conversation with other Human beings. And...are you ready for this?

Go back to using a pencil, or pen, writing on paper, using an envelope, and a stamp...sending whatever you feel like saying IN PRIVATE to whoever you want. And the NSA, or OBAMA will never know what you said.

IMAGINE THAT? What a wild idea?
Face to face is very good but not always possible.

But Postal mail is being watched and read at a certain level now without warrants as well.'
see links below

NSA surveillance: Why the Post Office doesn't spy on your mail the ... (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/data_mine_1/2013/06/nsa_surveillance_why_the_post_office_doesn_t_spy_o n_your_mail_the_way_nsa.html)
www.slate.com/ articles/ technology/ data_mine_1/ 2013/ 06/ nsa_surveillance_why_the_post_office_doesn_t_spy_o n_your_mail_the_way _nsa.html - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=48464a70455341654f79386746566862413251356 443636851315a414767385a4942646d50526c3754457853414 44648524445535253644456524a4246686c7a5178556755696 b585245344f4542707345544e30446d555543513559496a416 3636834314f546b664e47304d4d57317763525163556c6b745 15430444e457843564363354c676b5841686f474c474d7a444 66c644d7a6c4a4452304f417841464e796f4b575259574c315 5474f44634c4d464d496544556f557749574c6b64525078517 3476a516350796444465677434431775050574d525a424d2f4 846684e5a6a515159573977667a31535030736354513853445 178634c5530384448387845415241415152614c68414266684 e424a567742413063474d51734f48314a6b576a4e424253516 242435945466d41485133424f515146365a334574534864465 94155594d31673951456f55466941724a694568555378414e4 164424d546f455743686f4a3064445442684e4477556f42443 17657456359554130724a53496b507a6b594e794d6d50414d6 d574639584e56346766436f7049695a47535249644e446f756 151314254414955477945554e43305a4242745941457067474 24a6d5531646d4646555447453548505142444d42637247566 c4143523950654146354f7a42464b5845614444386e48484d4 c4b413436487a454d4542703745786739565241675941594e5 654514755456778653368504255735a567978384e6c514e463 25a695651564f48414e62416d413943464142566e5a4c54547 73043473444&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n59784q6p38324q4335725n58 6o3q&edata=77547ab2c70a19360fcab1f9826baae9&ek=665470554r30776n586o46486554456s61304n615355394 85n545568626n4n755258564154435138497n6s33636p51714 956396q626p556q4r48596s654835594q3370544n6o6837627 94r7665585n4o5931394n514370615443677153315168506p3 935646r564p5n446p655943496n56337877493252464r556p7 n52335n746531524r5433746n636r746853553151597n52795 6315n6q59486836596q4r67566p68704q54686q51334r72544 56437557n4n3852554n4r4q535237576n63685533564366554 63957454n2o63444n6p597n56385655566o5758744p6143686 s5658553155796p565458736p53447779506q4r7n65576p795 4694n524o553133635859306147633253324q6o54465531514 4397062536871586q78334s6q4169506p49315n48743262556 8685356456963545n386354424n516o4r7265454667556o4r3 251446p694q7n396q59455643536o31415030386p613341705 34756774q453033567967774s45636961574r425n316777504 3683949324r30555831585430424857453135525778544o673 q3q&ekdata=c58afc8fa152adbbf291cf4b367c090f) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=Goverement+reading+postal+mail&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTPTRQOS&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Farticles%2Ftechnology %2Fdata_mine_1%2F2013%2F06%2Fnsa_surveillance_why_ the_post_office_doesn_t_spy_on_your_mail_the_way_n sa.html)
Jun 12, 2013 ... Why it's so much harder for the government to spy on your snail mail than ... That action—handling someone else's mail, reading the contents ...

The U.S. Government Is Suddenly Way, Way More Interested In ... (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/28/youve-got-mail-government-reading/)
https://firstlook.org/ theintercept/ 2014/ 10/ 28/ youve-got-mail-government-reading/ - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=48464a70455341654f79386746566862413251356 443636851315a414767385a4942646d50526c3754457853414 44648524445535253644456524a4246686c7a5178556755696 b585245344f4542707345544e30446d555543513559496a416 3636834314f546b664e47304d4d57317763525163556c6b745 15430444e457843564363354c676b5841686f474c474d7a444 66c644d7a6c4a4452304f417841464e796f4b575259574c315 5474f44634c4d464d496544556f557749574c6b64525078517 3476a516350796444465677434431775050574d525a424d2f4 846676263455a306468735461456c6a4c6c564154526366466 7595a5945306a546d68464e774a634451355950775a574c7a4 2464e4270624b7870616231685343435954446e6348496b6c4 f53486f6e4d44355842314e52466c38396279344b4553314e4 e5377414a55734d586c6f49464767774c79776b56694643546 b4a766268415555546c57616b7748446e35475751596e557a3 0424342314d46314e464e456c6b6469467861586c4d6641356 c48324a63636b5538544331386331394657315950446867334 3444667464342494e33553641576b586541594a6331516e576 8787341316869456c4a50536b34626156564e616b4e3554317 84757523858636746704c43464c59337764456d306b556b316 953413d3d&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n59784q6p38324q4335725n58 6o3q&edata=902510c4dfb39f291cf90c1a7549e59d&ek=665470554r30776n586o46486554456s61304n615355394 85n545568626n4n755258564154435138497n6s33636p51714 956396q626p556q4r48596s654835594q3370544n6o6837627 94r7665585n4o5931394n514370615443677153315168506p3 935646r564p5n446p655943496n56337877493252464r556p7 n52335n746531524r5433746n636r746853553151597n52795 6315n6q59486836596q4r67566p68704q54686q51334r72544 56437557n4n3852554n4r4q535237576n63685533564366554 63957454n2o63444n6p597n56385655566o5758744p6143686 s5658553155796p565458736p53447779506q4r7n65576p795 4694n524o553133635859306147633253324q6o54465531514 4397062536871586q78334s6q4169506p49315n48743262556 8685356456963545n386354424n516o4r7265454667556o4r3 251446p694q7n396q59455643536o31415030386p613341705 34756774q453033567967774s45636961574r425n316777504 3683949324r30555831585430424857453135525778544o673 q3q&ekdata=8ec624aca01b0972895293a45305c957) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=Goverement+reading+postal+mail&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTPTRQOS&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&u=https:%2F%2Ffirstlook.org%2Ftheintercept%2F2014% 2F10%2F28%2Fyouve-got-mail-government-reading%2F)
Oct 28, 2014 ... Old-fashioned mail, the kind sent through the U.S. Post Office, has fallen out of ... become extremely interested in reading a lot of people's mail.

U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement - NYTimes ... (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?pagewanted=all)
www.nytimes.com/ 2013/ 07/ 04/ us/ monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?pagewanted=all - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=48464a70455341654f79386746566862413251356 443636851315a414767385a4942646d50526c3754457853414 44648524445535253644456524a4246686c7a5178556755696 b585245344f4542707345544e30446d555543513559496a416 3636834314f546b664e47304d4d57317763525163556c6b745 15430444e457843564363354c676b5841686f474c474d7a444 66c644d7a6c4a4452304f417841464e796f4b575259574c315 5474f44634c4d464d496544556f557749574c6b64525078517 3476a516350796444465677434431775050574d525a424d2f4 846684e5a6a515159573977667a31535030736355426f48454 151585051777952694253517a414757465946626c466966474 951636e6c5a5751315947426b4548314a6b557a31624451385 a487945504c6e784e46787350483145674c6d34474753674d6 64373434c56564841486b574153496e5053777553797042546 b4e744b516b63466a68544e6c7852425355525746467756324 143434239505151464d4d68733266485633627974426456383 348546c6362465174425377784b416f4d485530324b5851434 57a524e626a706e57777350475878726651594a6331646e626 76373466c4e6d51774a42484235484f675566596b422f51676 f5357306f546641552b635349635079314a453374684752677 64367564965673d3d&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n59784q6p38324q4335725n58 6o3q&edata=f18ec5e057e72183f79aaa2334ffb344&ek=665470554r30776n586o46486554456s61304n615355394 85n545568626n4n755258564154435138497n6s33636p51714 956396q626p556q4r48596s654835594q3370544n6o6837627 94r7665585n4o5931394n514370615443677153315168506p3 935646r564p5n446p655943496n56337877493252464r556p7 n52335n746531524r5433746n636r746853553151597n52795 6315n6q59486836596q4r67566p68704q54686q51334r72544 56437557n4n3852554n4r4q535237576n63685533564366554 63957454n2o63444n6p597n56385655566o5758744p6143686 s5658553155796p565458736p53447779506q4r7n65576p795 4694n524o553133635859306147633253324q6o54465531514 4397062536871586q78334s6q4169506p49315n48743262556 8685356456963545n386354424n516o4r7265454667556o4r3 251446p694q7n396q59455643536o31415030386p613341705 34756774q453033567967774s45636961574r425n316777504 3683949324r30555831585430424857453135525778544o673 q3q&ekdata=cb95027af6c35501f1f81f17adb37712) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=Goverement+reading+postal+mail&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTPTRQOS&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2013%2F07%2F04%2Fus %2Fmonitoring-of-snail-mail.html%3Fpagewanted%3Dall)
Jul 3, 2013 ... A Postal Service program created after anthrax attacks gathers photos of ... map of your contacts, even if they aren't reading the contents,” he said. ... in 2007 that the federal government had the authority to open mail without ...

The U.S. Government Tracks All The Snail Mail You Send Too - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/07/03/the-u-s-government-tracks-all-the-snail-mail-you-send-too/)
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Frequently Asked Questions - United States Postal Inspection Service (https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/faq.aspx)
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Can Postal Inspectors open mail if they feel it may contain something illegal? ... with other investigative and law enforcement agencies of the Government. 8.

The U.S. Postal Service Is Monitoring Your Snail Mail (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/15897-the-us-postal-service-is-monitoring-your-snail-mail)
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Jul 3, 2013 ... The U.S. government is not content to monitor your phone calls and your Internet activity; it's now reading your snail mail, too. A story in the New ...


Tuesday's Morning Email: Government Monitoring USPS Mail (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/the-morning-email_n_6059990.html)
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Oct 28, 2014 ... Tuesday's Morning Email: Government Monitoring USPS Mail ... united states postal service. TOP STORIES ... And like what you're reading?

Report: Postal Service uses "spying" programs similar to NSA - CBS ... (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-postal-service-uses-spying-programs-similar-to-nsa/)
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Jul 4, 2013 ... It's one of two programs The Times says shows that postal mail is under similar ... It is not known how long the government saves the images. ... a pretty good map of your contacts, even if they aren't reading the contents.".

U.S. Postal Service 'mail imaging' program used for law enforcement ... (http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/postal-service-mail-imaging/)
www.policestateusa.com/2014/postal-service-mail-imaging/ - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=48464a70455341654f79386746566862413251356 443636851315a414767385a4942646d50526c3754457853414 44648524445535253644456524a4246686c7a5178556755696 b585245344f4542707345544e30446d555543513559496a416 3636834314f546b664e47304d4d57317763525163556c6b745 15430444e457843564363354c676b5841686f474c474d7a444 66c644d7a6c4a4452304f417841464e796f4b575259574c315 5474f44634c4d464d496544556f557749574c6b64525078517 3476a516350796444465677434431775050574d525a424d2f4 846684e5a6a515159573977667a31535030736354677766454 16f5850565977585367434168636143776862626c4669666d5 545644270624b3167464c526757566b3152577942444452675 4514355414944305047467364466c6b6e4a575a5a506d63564 e6949434951514755466c534258787963336f6a58587358574 5564c63465248555835575a6b785757334d624456556b586e3 5435445634f486c4a4264776b6b636730544354553245546c6 d5a48706a5a48674e426d3046596b7031446867795a336f716 356494252316451574342454a6e73645752494f42426469544 5426e424667775231565047453147666b4d4a49427435&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n59784q6p38324q4335725n58 6o3q&edata=185b35c9fd83769eef10f447bbe2f7e6&ek=665470554r30776n586o46486554456s61304n615355394 85n545568626n4n755258564154435138497n6s33636p51714 956396q626p556q4r48596s654835594q3370544n6o6837627 94r7665585n4o5931394n514370615443677153315168506p3 935646r564p5n446p655943496n56337877493252464r556p7 n52335n746531524r5433746n636r746853553151597n52795 6315n6q59486836596q4r67566p68704q54686q51334r72544 56437557n4n3852554n4r4q535237576n63685533564366554 63957454n2o63444n6p597n56385655566o5758744p6143686 s5658553155796p565458736p53447779506q4r7n65576p795 4694n524o553133635859306147633253324q6o54465531514 4397062536871586q78334s6q4169506p49315n48743262556 8685356456963545n386354424n516o4r7265454667556o4r3 251446p694q7n396q59455643536o31415030386p613341705 34756774q453033567967774s45636961574r425n316777504 3683949324r30555831585430424857453135525778544o673 q3q&ekdata=2e6319613d3ae6775ab06c70a11c35de) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=Goverement+reading+postal+mail&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTPTRQOS&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.policestateusa.com%2F2014%2Fposta l-service-mail-imaging%2F)
Nov 23, 2014 ... The Postal Service runs a massive surveillance dragnet of all the mail in the USA; databasing the ... The mail cover surveillance requests cut across all levels of government — from global intelligence ... Read moreShow less.


.....

But i have to say , If it save one life then it must be OK right?

[jimnyc]

SO basically all communications right?

For starters:


Requires each element of the intelligence community to adopt Attorney General-approved procedures

What are these approved procedures? That's what I would want to know first. That will dictate who and how many. But no, it's definitely not all. It would appear that the detention discussed in this bill would need approval from congress, or at least some of it. It also talks of "foreign intelligence", and further states:


all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-U.S. persons

I STILL don't trust them, but I don't think it reads as they are grabbing and retaining "all" communications.

[revelarts]

For starters:



What are these approved procedures? That's what I would want to know first. That will dictate who and how many. But no, it's definitely not all. It would appear that the detention discussed in this bill would need approval from congress, or at least some of it. It also talks of "foreign intelligence", and further states:



I STILL don't trust them, but I don't think it reads as they are grabbing and retaining "all" communications.
ok but look,
"...Attorney-General approved procedures..." is a full on Blank Check. that's the problem. that legally means unlimited. the 'procedures' are what they say when they say it, written, verbal or maybe even implied by on going activity. Who's butts are covered by this wording our's or law enforcement's? There are rules that add one line that change t all as well. "this rule will apply RETROACTIVELY..." . However the procedure is laid out the law's just a Blank Check to the gov't.

and the law says
"...for any intelligence collection activity not otherwise authorized by court order or subpoena..." "...to or from a U.S. person..." "... without the consent of a person who is a party to the communication...."

that covers us everyone and all our stuff.

The NSA has already admitted that it is in fact grabbing all communications and storing it in Utah. So that's a done deal, the FBI either has it own thing going parallel or is accessing there's. So all does in fact mean ALL. And the 5 year limit with loopholes, who's going to enforce that? the attorney general?

If someone says.
'Sam please consume a pile of human waste material.'
it is in fact the same thing as saying,
'Sam eat Sh!t.'

[jimnyc]

all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-U.S. persons

So this comes down to it being akin to spying on foreigners, but you're making it sound as if every American telephone call will be saved based on this bill, and it simply states otherwise.


Attorney-General approved procedures.

Can you quote these approved procedures for me, Rev? Because if it's a blank check as you say, and different than this being non-US persons, I'm not seeing it.

[jimnyc]

Rev, with all due respect, I think you're picking out single lines and making more out of it. I could do that too, for example:


the communication is enciphered or reasonably believed to have a secret meaning; all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-U.S. persons; retention is necessary to protect against an imminent threat to human life

But I think if you look at the bill as a whole, it's simply an intelligence tool for monitoring and recording potential foreign communications, crime related of course. Where it mentions the US person, it would appear that this is where the AG procedures come into play. You assume that means it is a blank check. I would like to see/read what these procedures are before assuming it means that they can just do whatever they like. From my perspective, it sounds like their would only be certain circumstances in where it would be allowed, based on the AG instructions. But we won't know for sure without reading them. I'll look around and see if I can find anything more on that side.

[jimnyc]

Requires each element of the intelligence community to adopt Attorney General-approved procedures for any intelligence collection activity not otherwise authorized by court order or subpoena that is reasonably anticipated to result in the acquisition of nonpublic telephone or electronic communications to or from a U.S. person, including communications in electronic storage, without the consent of a person who is a party to the communication.

Still looking, but, reading this again it seems to state that one would need some sort of approval from the AG in order to go forward with something that was not already authorized, without a court order or subpoena.

[revelarts]

So this comes down to it being akin to spying on foreigners, but you're making it sound as if every American telephone call will be saved based on this bill, and it simply states otherwise.

Can you quote these approved procedures for me, Rev? Because if it's a blank check as you say, and different than this being non-US persons, I'm not seeing it.


Rev, with all due respect, I think you're picking out single lines and making more out of it. I could do that too, for example:
But I think if you look at the bill as a whole, it's simply an intelligence tool for monitoring and recording potential foreign communications, crime related of course. Where it mentions the US person, it would appear that this is where the AG procedures come into play. You assume that means it is a blank check. I would like to see/read what these procedures are before assuming it means that they can just do whatever they like. From my perspective, it sounds like their would only be certain circumstances in where it would be allowed, based on the AG instructions. But we won't know for sure without reading them. I'll look around and see if I can find anything more on that side.


"all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-U.S. persons; "
that portion is in the EXCEPTIONS to retention beyond 5 years area of the law.
the whole reading makes it pretty clear.

like saying to 100 people, 'No one leaves the building for 5 hours. After that only those with a red shirts are required to stay indefinitely.'
The 5 hours includes everyone. the red shirts bit is for after that time only.
You can't just pull the red shirt section and say the whole thing ONLY applies to those with red shirts.



Still looking, but, reading this again it seems to state that one would need some sort of approval from the AG in order to go forward with something that was not already authorized, without a court order or subpoena.
"procedures" "approval" "authorization" The AG only has to write memo or give verbal OK to change 'procedures'. OR say NOTHING to reign in what's already going on. And as i mentioned he can easily make retroactive changes. The AG has a blank check to do so.
Do a search on what has already been done that's been questioned as over stepping in this area. But now, with the new law, it all just falls under procedure.
As i mention the NSA ALREADY has admitted to collecting ALL data. it's ALREADY approved, authorized, procedure.
The new law simply makes what's already practice/procedure the law.

[revelarts]

"...The topic of mail privacy was debated as recently as 2006. During his tenure in office, President Bush attached a signing statement to a reform bill (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2770381&page=1#.UbisluuE7oc) that allowed federal authorities to ask for all mail cover data and even to open your mail without approval. His administration argued that the Patriot Act enabled the government to intercept USPS deliveries in "exigent circumstances, such as to protect human life and safety against hazardous materials, and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence." Sen. Charles Schumer criticized Bush at the time, saying that the action was a direct contradiction of our established mail protection laws and to the Constitution. Whether or not our USPS mail is being routinely opened today under a similar program is still not clear...."
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/data_mine_1/2013/06/nsa_surveillance_why_the_post_office_doesn_t_spy_o n_your_mail_the_way_nsa.2.html

Bush: Government Can Open Your Mail Jan. 4, 2007
President Bush says he and other government officials have the power to snoop through your mail without a judge's warrant.
Bush made the claim last month in a signing statement attached to a postal reform bill. Bush wrote that the bill "provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection." ...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2770381&page=1#.UbisluuE7oc



Authorized by the AG's Boss means it's Authorized procedure.
Before the law a new president could have rescinded the order. But now it'l take another act of congress or the SCOTUS.

[aboutime]

Rev. Honestly. Is there anything, anyone, anywhere, at any time in this World that you haven't something to whine about?

If things are really as terrible as you want the rest of us to believe they are.

Maybe, right now would be the perfect time for YOU to give up here on DP.
Stop all forms of communication you happen to take part in, at any time, anywhere, by anyone else.

That way. Only you will be fully satisfied with what you obviously believe must be A PERFECT WORLD for rev.

[revelarts]

Rev. Honestly. Is there anything, anyone, anywhere, at any time in this World that you haven't something to whine about?

If things are really as terrible as you want the rest of us to believe they are.

Maybe, right now would be the perfect time for YOU to give up here on DP.
Stop all forms of communication you happen to take part in, at any time, anywhere, by anyone else.

That way. Only you will be fully satisfied with what you obviously believe must be A PERFECT WORLD for rev.

AT is there anything that I or tailfins or a few other posters say that you don't whine about?

How about a few more constructive comments every once in a while.
your suggestion about Face to Face wasn't bad. and the postal service isn't completely intrusive yet so to that suggestion wasn't completely off.

got anymore comments like that to add to the conversations around here? that'd be great.

[aboutime]

AT is there anything that I or tailfins or a few other posters say that you don't whine about?

How about a few more constructive comments every once in a while.
your suggestion about Face to Face wasn't bad. and the postal service isn't completely intrusive yet so to that suggestion wasn't completely off.

got anymore comments like that to add to the conversations around here? that'd be great.


Rev. Your typical liberal trick of using my words like 'whine' to distract, and change the subject just won't work this time. You wouldn't know a constructive comment if YOU tried. Too bad you can't simply be honest, and answer questions without making excuses.

[revelarts]

Rev. Your typical liberal trick of using my words like 'whine' to distract, and change the subject just won't work this time. You wouldn't know a constructive comment if YOU tried. Too bad you can't simply be honest, and answer questions without making excuses.

See there you go again making comments about me and not the subject of the thread.

try again

[aboutime]

See there you go again making comments about me and not the subject of the thread.

try again


Okay. And maybe...YOU should read what you have been saying first? Hypocrisy is your friend.

[revelarts]

Okay. And maybe...YOU should read what you have been saying first? Hypocrisy is your friend.

See you did it again. negative comments about me.
. the tread topic is on this new law that give the gov't the legal authority to surveil us all and copy our phone and internet records without a warrant.

say something about that.
that's how this works.

[aboutime]

See you did it again. negative comments about me.
. the tread topic is on this new law that give the gov't the legal authority to surveil us all and copy our phone and internet records without a warrant.

say something about that.
that's how this works.


Okay. So, would you like to answer my first question related to the topic about anything you Won't whine about with relation to communications?

[fj1200]

that's how this works.

psst... ignore... The path to sanity.