The Growing Phenomenon of Police Shooting Unarmed Citizens

[revelarts]

each case on it's own merits but

Licensed to Kill: The Growing Phenomenon of Police Shooting Unarmed Citizens


Here’s a recipe for disaster: Take a young man (or woman), raise him on a diet of violence, hype him up on the power of the gun in his holster and the superiority of his uniform, render him woefully ignorant of how to handle a situation without resorting to violence, train him well in military tactics but allow him to be illiterate about the Constitution, and never stress to him that he is to be a peacemaker and a peacekeeper, respectful of and subservient to the taxpayers, who are in fact his masters and employers.

Once you have fully indoctrinated this young man (or woman) on the idea that the police belong to a brotherhood of sorts, with its own honor code and rule of law, then place this person in situations where he will encounter individuals who knowingly or unknowingly challenge his authority, where he may, justifiably or not, feel threatened, and where he will have to decide between firing a weapon or, the more difficult option, adequately investigating a situation in order to better assess the danger and risk posed to himself and others, and then act on it by defusing the tension or de-escalating the violence.


I’m not talking about a situation so obviously fraught with risk that there is no other option but to shoot, although I am hard pressed to consider what that might be outside of the sensationalized Hollywood hostage crisis scenario. I’m talking about the run-of-the mill encounters between police and citizens that occur daily. In an age when police are increasingly militarized, weaponized and protected by the courts, these once-routine encounters are now inherently dangerous for any civilian unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.


I’m not the only one concerned, either. Indeed, I’ve been contacted by many older cops equally alarmed by the attitudes and behaviors of younger police today, the foot soldiers in the emerging police state. Yet.. this is what happens when you go from a representative democracy in which all members are subject to the rule of law to a hierarchical one in which there is one set of laws for the rulers and another, far more stringent set, for the ruled.


Hence, it is no longer unusual to hear about an incident in which police shoot unarmed individuals first and ask questions later. This is becoming all too common. For example, on September 14th alone, there were two separate police shootings of unarmed individuals, resulting in death and/or injury to innocent individuals—and those are just the shootings that happened to make national headlines.


The first shooting incident took place in Charlotte, N.C., when three police officers responded to a 911 “breaking and entering” call in which a homeowner reported that a man she didn’t know or recognize had been knocking at her door repeatedly. Upon arriving on scene, the police saw a man matching the caller’s description running towards them. One officer fired a stun gun, after which the second officer opened fire on the unarmed 24-year-old, who died on the scene. Only afterwards did police realize the dead man, a former football player, had been in a car accident and was likely approaching them for help.


Later that same day, in New York’s Times Square, police officers shot into a crowd of tourists, aiming for a 35-year-old man who had been reportedly weaving among cars and loosely gesturing with his hands in his pockets. The cops missed the man, who was unarmed, and shot a 54-year-old woman in the knee and another woman in the buttock. The man was eventually subdued with a Taser.


Just a few weeks earlier, in Florida, 60-year-old Roy Middleton was shot in the leg by police when he wandered out to his Lincoln Town car, which was parked in his mother’s driveway, in search of cigarettes in the wee hours of the morning. A neighbor, seeing Middleton, reported him to 911 as a possible robber. Police, after ordering the unarmed black man out of the car, began firing on Middleton, who likened the experience to a “firing squad. Bullets were flying everywhere.” The car was reportedly riddled with bullets and 17 shell casings were on scene. Defending their actions, the two police officers claim that Middleton, who had a metallic object in his hand, “made a lunging motion” out of the car causing them to “fear for their safety.” That metallic object was a key chain with a flashlight attached.


These are not isolated incidents. Law enforcement officials are increasingly responding to unsubstantiated fears for their safety and perceived challenges to their “authority” by drawing and using their weapons.


For example, Miami-Dade police slammed a 14-year-old boy to the ground, putting him in a chokehold and handcuffing him after he allegedly gave them “dehumanizing stares” and walked away from them, which the officers found unacceptable. According to Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta, “His body language was that he was stiffening up and pulling away… When you have somebody resistant to them and pulling away and somebody clenching their fists and flailing their arms, that’s a threat. Of course we have to neutralize the threat.”


Unfortunately, this mindset that any challenge to police authority is a threat that needs to be “neutralized” is a dangerous one that is part of a greater nationwide trend that sets law enforcement officers beyond the reach of the Fourth Amendment. Equally problematic is the trend in the courts that acquits officers involved in such shootings, letting them off with barely a slap to the wrists.


This begs the question: what exactly are we teaching these young officers in the police academy when the slightest thing, whether it be a hand in a pocket, a man running towards them, a flashlight on a keychain, or a dehumanizing stare can ignite a strong enough “fear for their safety” to justify doing whatever is deemed necessary to neutralize the threat, even if it means firing on an unarmed person?


The problem, notes Jerome Skolnick and former New York City police officer/Temple University criminal justice professor James Fyfe in their book Above the Law: Police and the Excessive Use of Force, is that

police work is often viewed by those in the force as an us-versus-them war rather than a chance for community-oriented engagement and problem solving. The authors also point to a lack of accountability as one of the reasons why police violence persists. They acknowledge that, yes, police officers are placed in dangerous situations that at times require immediate responses. But they maintain that that doesn’t excuse using more force than is needed to subdue someone, the lack of professional training that leads to such fear-based responses, or treating citizens as enemy combatants.


As Titania Kumeh reports in Mother Jones, this has been coming on for a long time. Remember back in 1999, when four plainclothes New York police officers shot and killed a 22-year-old unarmed immigrant who was standing in the doorway of his apartment? The cops thought the young man was reaching for his gun—it turned out to be his wallet—and fired 41 shots at him, landing 19 on his body. The cops were acquitted of all charges.


In 2003, an unarmed man, kneeling before four Las Vegas police officers, was shot with an assault rifle because one of the officers “feared” the unarmed man was feigning surrender and about to grab a gun. A jury ruled the shooting excusable.


In 2006, plainclothes police officers, again in New York, fired 50 shots into a car after it reportedly rammed into their unmarked van, killing the 23-year-old driver who had just left his bachelor party and wounding his two friends. Police claimed they had been following the men, suspecting one of them had a gun. Again, the cops were cleared of all charges.


In 2010, in California, police shot and killed a young man who had allegedly committed some sort of traffic violation while riding his bicycle. After an altercation in which the young man resisted police and fled to his mother’s house, police officers pursued him, kicked down his mother’s door and opened fire.


That same year, in Long Beach, California, police responded with heavy firepower to a perceived threat by a man holding a water hose. The 35-year-old man had reportedly been watering his neighbor’s lawn when police, interpreting his “grip” on the water hose to be consistent with that of someone discharging a firearm, opened fire. The father of two was pronounced dead at the scene.


Skip ahead to 2013 and you have the 16-year-old teenager who skipped school only to be shot by police after they mistook him for a fleeing burglar.

Not to mention the July 26 shooting of an unarmed black man in Austin “who was pursued and shot in the back of the neck by Austin Police… after failing to properly identify himself and leaving the scene of an unrelated incident.”

And don’t forget the 19-year-old Seattle woman who was accidentally shot in the leg by police after she refused to show her hands.


Make no mistake, whereas these shootings of unarmed individuals by what Slate terms “trigger happy” cops used to take place primarily in big cities, that militarized, urban warfare mindset among police has spread to small-town America. No longer is this just a problem for immigrants, or people of color, or lower income communities, or young people who look like hooligans, out for trouble. We’re all in this together, black and white, rich and poor, urban and suburban, guilty and innocent alike. We’re all viewed the same by the powers that be: as potential lawbreakers to be viewed with suspicion and treated like criminals.


Whether you’re talking about police shootings of unarmed individuals, NSA surveillance, drones taking to the skies domestically, SWAT team raids, or roadside strip searches, they’re all part of a totalitarian continuum, mile markers on this common road we’re traveling towards the police state. The sign before us reads “Danger Ahead.” What remains to be seen is whether we can put the brakes on and safely reverse direction before it’s too late to turn back.




By John W. Whitehead
September 16, 2013
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/licensed_to_kill_the_growing_phenomenon_of_police_ shooting_unarmed_cit


The Rutherford Institute
The Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties organization based in Charlottesville, Va., is deeply committed to protecting the constitutional freedoms of every American and the integral human rights of all people through its extensive legal and educational programs. The Institute provides its legal services at no charge to those whose constitutional and human rights have been threatened or violated....

The Institute’s mission is twofold: to provide legal services in the defense of religious and civil liberties and to educate the public on important issues affecting their constitutional freedoms.
Whether our attorneys are protecting the rights of parents whose children are strip-searched at school, standing up for a teacher fired for speaking about religion or defending the rights of individuals against illegal search and seizure, The Rutherford Institute offers assistance—and hope—to thousands.

[revelarts]

Fairfax County police shot an unarmed man in his home and they won’t say why


WHEN WILL Fairfax County, VA and federal authorities stop stonewalling in the 2013 death of John Geer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/man-killed-in-police-shooting-identified/2013/08/30/ad143be0-1181-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html), an unarmed man shot at point-blank range by police as he stood in the doorway of his home?

How is it possible that 15 months after he was shot in the chest and left to bleed to death in his home , the authorities have neither disclosed the name of the county police officer who fired the deadly shot nor provided even the bare bones of an explanation for the shooting?...


What in the world is going on here? At least two other police officers witnessed the shooting at close range; are their accounts to remain hidden indefinitely? What accounts did other witnesses to the shooting, who include friends and neighbors, give to the authorities?


Has anyone contradicted the accounts of witnesses who told journalists that while Mr. Geer had been drinking and was distraught that his longtime girlfriend was moving out, he brandished no weapons and posed no threat to the police or to public order?


Following the shooting, why was Mr. Geer allowed to bleed to death inside his home? Why did police and emergency personnel leave his body unattended for an hour? Could prompt medical attention have saved his life?...



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fairfax-county-police-shot-an-unarmed-man-in-his-home-and-they-wont-say-why/2014/11/27/5a028690-74eb-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html

[revelarts]

Unarmed Black Man And Daughter Shot At By Police While Dad Tries To Save Girl From Asthma Attack


Florida man, Brian Dennison, 29, and his daughter were rushing home. Dennison’s daughter was having a severe asthma attack and needed medication right away. Jacksonville Sheriff, J.C. Garcia, mistakenly thought Dennison had a gun and fired his weapon. According to Dennison, he was holding his daughter at the time.Dennison describes the altercation with police to Francesca Amiker of News4JaX (http://www.news4jax.com/news/man-shot-at-by-police-with-daughter-in-car/29934888):
“Last night was very scary. I had my daughter in the car with me, coming home from the basketball court, and she was having a asthma attack at the time, and I was trying to rush her back to the house.”

Dennison was driving his daughter home when he noticed her simple asthma attack turned severe. As he tried to relate the seriousness of the situation to police, Garcia pulled the trigger. Dennison says,
“As I’m rushing back to the house, cops came behind me and they actually were trying to pull me over. I waived the cop down to tell them to just hold on and when I got out of the car, the cops still proceeded to come towards me as I had my hands up, I was explaining to him the situation with my daughter and he took a shot at me. While my daughter was in my hands and at that moment in time right then and there, I thought I was shot or she was shot.”
According to Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office (JSO), Officer J.C. Garcia saw that Dennison’s license plate was expired. Garcia flipped on his police lights, signaling to Dennison that he wanted him to pull over. Dennison didn’t stop. He continued driving until he arrived at a nearby apartment complex. When Dennison exited his car to get his daughter, Garcia thought he had a small handgun and fired his weapon at him. Garcia claims Dennison’s daughter was not in his arms at the time.Garcia then realized there was no threat. He was made aware of the immediate medical emergency and told Dennison to go upstairs to retrieve his daughter’s inhaler.
Dennison was arrested on a charge of knowingly driving with a suspended, cancelled or revoked license. He appeared in court on Tuesday, posted bond and was released.
While Garcia hasn’t been suspended or placed on any kind of restricted duty, the case is under investigation. A response and resistance review board will investigate the matter and the case will then be referred to a panel within the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office.
Thankfully, neither Dennison or his daughter were injured or killed.
link (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/29/unarmed-black-man-and-daughter-shot-at-by-police-while-dad-tries-to-save-girl-from-asthma-attack-video/)

[revelarts]

...years after the shooting death of unarmed Sean Bell (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/police-involved-sean-bell-shooting-canned-article-1.1050169) and Amadour Diallo (http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/05/nyregion/officers-in-bronx-fire-41-shots-and-an-unarmed-man-is-killed.html) also in New York, years now after the Shooting Death of Unarmed and Hand-cuffed, Face Down Oscar Grant (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Blame-in-Oscar-Grant-BART-death-may-shift-4713100.php) in Oakland, years after the shooting death of unarmed Kendrec McDade (http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/06/16/44754/pasadena-pays-1-million-to-parents-of-kendrec-mcda/) in Pasadena, a decade after the asphyxiation of unarmed Johnny Gammage (http://www.cnn.com/US/9511/gammage/) in Pittsburgh, more decades after the choke-hold police Murder cover-up of Ron Settles (http://www.nytimes.com/1983/01/14/us/suit-over-football-player-s-death-in-coast-jail-settled-for-1-million.html) in Signal Hill, the Police shooting of Eula Love (http://blogging.la/2010/04/27/while-everyone-else-is-busy-remember-daryl-gates-life-ill-remember-eula-loves-death/) over a $22 water bill payment in 1979, and of so many others.
We are told these are isolated incidents. We are told that they are simply the Officers procuring their own safety and if only the "suspects" had surrendered or obeyed they would still be alive today....

..

In Chicago, for example, an examination of media accounts shows that only one shooting out of the 84 fatal police shootings occurred since 2000 has been found unjustified. Monique Bond, spokeswoman at the Chicago Police Department, said that more than one shooting had been determined to have been outside department guidelines, but could not provide specific numbers....

But it's not all Bad News.

Washington, D.C., which had the nation’s highest rate of police shootings during the 1990s, has cut the rate of shootings dramatically through a combination of training and accountability....
​source (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/24/1324132/-How-Often-are-Unarmed-Black-Men-Shot-Down-By-Police)


....from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (pdf) (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp08.pdf).

o The most common reason for contact with police in 2008 was being a driver in a traffic stop (44.1%)o Black drivers were about three times as likely as white drivers and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers to be searched during a traffic stop.
Yet as we all should know, even though Blacks get searched more often during stops - police don't find more drugs or guns on them. (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities/)

White New Yorkers make up a small minority of stop-and-frisks, which were 84 percent black and Latino residents. Despite this much higher number of minorities deemed suspicious by police, the likelihood that stopping an African American would find a weapon was half the likelihood of finding one on a white person.So why then, exactly, are they doing it? If stopping twice the Black people only generates half the guns or drugs, why does this happen?....
source (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/24/1324132/-How-Often-are-Unarmed-Black-Men-Shot-Down-By-Police)

just the facts right?

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz120314dAPC20141203014518.jpg

[revelarts]

Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War

By Matt Agorist (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/author/savy4/) on December 12, 2013



http://thefreethoughtproject.com/americans-killed-cops-outnumber-americans-killed-iraq-war/#4cgMzqUj4QjbVdzv.99



The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489. (http://antiwar.com/casualties/)

What went wrong? In the 19070’s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style “knock and announce” (http://www.cato.org/raidmap) police raids a year.

The police presence in this country is being turned into a military with a clearly defined enemy, anyone who questions the establishment.
If we look at the most recent numbers (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/americans-are-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/)of non-military US citizens killed by terrorism worldwide, that number is 17. You have a better chance of being killed by a bee sting, or a home repair accident than you do a terrorist. And you are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a terrorist!

A hard hitting mini film by film maker Charles Shaw, properly titled RELEASE US, highlights the riveting and horrid reality of America’s thin blue line.

From the film: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKt2Mhk73J4)
500 innocent Americans are murdered by police every year (USDOJ). 5,000 since 9/11, equal to the number of US soldiers lost in Iraq.

<ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display:block" data-ad-client="ca-pub-4592613958335609" data-ad-slot="9721286175" data-ad-format="auto"></ins>
In 1994 the US Government passed a law authorizing the Pentagon to donate surplus Cold War era military equipment to local police departments.

In the 20 years since, weaponry designed for use on a foreign battlefield, has been handed over for use on American streets…against American citizens.
The “War on Drugs” and the “War on Terror” replaced the Cold War with billions in funding and dozens of laws geared towards this new “war” against its own citizens.
This militarization of the police force has created what is being called an “epidemic of police brutality” sweeping the nation.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nKt2Mhk73J4

[Neo]

So what's your point, that people get killed by cops, and sometimes it's a good shoot an sometimes they're not?

Wow! That's certainly a headline grabber what else is new, what else you got?

Don't mean to be snarky, but this old hat. I learned a LONG time ago, you just don't disobey cops, there's no upside whatsoever and in ALL cases, simple compliance is the salve.

Court rooms tend to even the playing field.

[aboutime]

rev. Why couldn't you take the time to also announce the number of Black, Unarmed Citizens...that outnumber Police shootings, by Black on Black crimes/shootings.

If you can't be honest and tell the WHOLE story. Leaving out such information is like LYING.

[Anton Chigurh]

The Growing Phenomenon of Police Shooting Unarmed CitizensThe only growth is in the amount of them covered on social media and overhyped by zealots and axe grinders.

When the reality is, 99 percent of all law enforcement contacts with citizens is non violent, (more than a million such, a week) and 90% of all police officers never even draw their guns while on duty. (FBI Statistics).

Just some perspective for you. Most cops do their whole career without ever drawing their gun.

[revelarts]

People in Wheelchairs Getting beat by police.
those wheel chair people are criminals. Out of control. they need to just follow the police orders and they'll be no problem.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC2M_i3YXps
Paraplegic, on a trafic violation. dumped in floor 2 broken ribs.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?fv=OqmnYpC2dfA
Knife wound victim at hospital with feet handcuffed to wheelchair beat about the head and neck with a black jack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnXDhKsbxKk
Published on Jul 2, 2014
The entire Lafayette, Ind., Police Department command staff recommended that Lt. Tom Davidson be fired for pushing over a wheelchair-bound man who ran over his foot last October, but the officer was only suspended and put on probation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNJ3MZ-AUo
UK Police "Appears" to knock over and dragged across the road a man in wheel chair with epilepsy.

self defense

people in wheelchairs do a most of the crime, thugs, animals, on welfare, and don't listen to the police , etc soo they get what they deserve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqCNW_hGiOg
Cop kicks handcuffed woman in the head, "he felt threatened" woman are out of control. always have been.

Rochester, NY Police officers Assault Disabled Man in Motorized Wheelchair!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgaAcsmx1o0

Police (D.C.) Caught Body Slamming Paralyzed Wheelchair-Bound Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC24PbCJlXQ

see here's WHY (LINK BELOW) these Wheelchair people are getting in trouble with police.
And They get the best parking spaces already what else do they want?!!
It's Roosevelt's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I01oPV9hz5M

...........
Jews getting beat by police. those jewish animals are out of control.
blocking the streets! protesting why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0xO7vdvogrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=COsbqzYdzR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-JlxgjUQlaE

[Neo]

You hate cops, I get it. What system should we employ to maintain a civilized society since you apparently are not pleased currently?

[Anton Chigurh]

Chicken Little.

[revelarts]

The only growth is in the amount of them covered on social media and overhyped by zealots and axe grinders.

When the reality is, 99 percent of all law enforcement contacts with citizens is non violent, (more than a million such, a week) and 90% of all police officers never even draw their guns while on duty. (FBI Statistics).

Just some perspective for you. Most cops do their whole career without ever drawing their gun.

As it should be.
but why do they need mini tanks, sound cannons, Black Riot Gear, high powered rifles etc then AC?

Before you make assumptions please Re-read the 1st post here.

Plus I'm not making up numbers, or cases.
why shouldn't these type of cases be talked about. these people are PAID and TRAINED to help people.
Hired to enforce the law not Break it.

It's bad when a regular guy has 3 women on the side but when a pastor does it, it's a bit worse. He's SUPPOSE to be promoting and living by a better standard.
same with police. thankfully there are tons of great police.
But the bad ones need to be pointed out and the public should make it known that police are not above the law.
And Not pretend that Police are saints that should always be given the benefit of the doubt.
As is seen in many of the case the bad cops lie and the good cops don't speak up to out them unless there's TAPE.
BTW you do assume that what I'm posting and what gets caught is all there is?

But just to be clear, we agree that the FBi stats are fine.

[revelarts]

You hate cops, I get it. What system should we employ to maintain a civilized society since you apparently are not pleased currently?

I think some people need to revisit the Intellectually Honest thread.

Look I get weary of being accused of hatin' this or that ever time i point out problems.

If i say my wife's Meatloaf is burnt every Thursday it doesn't mean i HATE my wife.
but it doesn't mean i need to STHU about the meatloaf either.

I point out Obama's Flaws, but i don't HATE the man. (as some here seem too.) I just think he's WRONG and is Dangerous and Criminal in that office. Does that mean i hate the Presidency itself?

SOME police are DANGEROUS and Criminal in that Role. and should be GONE. and the public should take it serious. The Office of Police is a honored and necessary role.
but only if it's maintained in the true spirit of the role.
We can't pretend it's some Pollyanna position where we should never vigorously question the people who wear a badge because "you might need them one day then what?"

Claiming that i "hate" the police doesn't CLEAR those who've done wrong of ANY of the problems I've point out here Neo.


And I'm actually working 2 agendas at once here, neither having a thing to do with "Hate".

[Jeff]

I think some people need to revisit the Intellectually Honest thread.

Look I get weary of being accused of hatin' this or that ever time i point out problems.

If i say my wife's Meatloaf is burnt every Thursday it doesn't mean i HATE my wife.
but it doesn't mean i need to STHU about the meatloaf either.

I point out Obama's Flaws, but i don't HATE the man. (as some here seem too.) I just think he's WRONG and is Dangerous and Criminal in that office. Does that mean i hate the Presidency itself?

SOME police are DANGEROUS and Criminal in that Role. and should be GONE. and the public should take it serious. The Office of Police is a honored and necessary role.
but only if it's maintained in the true spirit of the role.
We can't pretend it's some Pollyanna position where we should never vigorously question the people who wear a badge because "you might need them one day then what?"

Claiming that i "hate" the police doesn't CLEAR them of ANY of the problems I've point out here Neo.


And I'm actually working 2 agendas at once here, neither having a thing to do with "Hate".

I hate Meatloaf :laugh:

[Anton Chigurh]

why shouldn't these type of cases be talked about.No one's said they shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be exaggerated or lied about, however.

[revelarts]

I hate Meatloaf :laugh:
lol!
80% of the time the other meals are not burnt so. I should be happy right.

[revelarts]

No one's said they shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be exaggerated or lied about, however.
Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?
any exaggeration over the number of Swat raids Increasing over the past 20 years or the amount of military gear the police have?

[Jeff]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6866&stc=1


Ok this is about black America but I think you could put this into any race, I don't believe the police are getting worse but the streets and the media reporting things are. I can remember when I was younger if ya wised off to the cops ya got your head thumped ( back then everyone wasn't carrying guns and yes even punks had more respect back in the day for the police than the average citizen does today ) I also believe there have been people getting killed by cops for ever but now it sells, it is a great news story. I don't condone police brutality but I also believe if ya don't do things wrong chances of even speaking to a cop on any given day probably isn't going to happen.

[revelarts]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?
any exaggeration over the number of Swat raids Increasing over the past 20 years or the amount of military gear the police have?
Plus one of the articles i pulled this quote.

Washington, D.C., which had the nation’s highest rate of police shootings during the 1990s, has cut the rate of shootings dramatically through a combination of training and accountability....
​source (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/24/1324132/-How-Often-are-Unarmed-Black-Men-Shot-Down-By-Police)

they Acknowledged the problem and dealt with it. As it should
they didn't deny or deflect it and talk about how many cops never use a gun. Or how great cops are in general.
or say stuff like "you must hate cops just for bringing the issue up".

[Anton Chigurh]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?No one said any of them were.

[jimnyc]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?

Here's an issue I have with what one of the articles opened up with:


In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489. (http://antiwar.com/casualties/)

Some of the worst people in the world killed some of our troops, and this article states our troops were "killed". The extreme majority of the police cases mentioned didn't even bring charges let alone get convictions, and they refer to the police as murderers. If true - can you (or they I should ask), have a list of the 5000 convictions in the past decade? You get my point...

I understand that some folks are upset with police issues in the past few decades, especially black folks. But downplaying war and using rhetoric to imply ALL of the police involved in shootings are murderers looses me at the beginning. It's difficult for me to continue with an article once I read something like that.

But this doesn't mean I argue with 100% of what you have posted. Some is police misconduct or brutality, and I'm sure some of those 5,000 shootings were legitimate and officers cleared. It's wrong to imply all officer involved killings are murders, just as it would be wrong of anyone to completely dismiss complaints and imply all the conduct by the police that you have posted was OK.

[aboutime]

After attempting to read your last rants, contrived based on your now OBVIOUS hatred.

I am totally convinced. You are no longer worth responding to, nor attempting to communicate with at all.

I do not want to give you any more time here to expose your Blatant Racist Idea's...not even you can hide.

[revelarts]

Here's an issue I have with what one of the articles opened up with:



Some of the worst people in the world killed some of our troops, and this article states our troops were "killed". The extreme majority of the police cases mentioned didn't even bring charges let alone get convictions, and they refer to the police as murderers. If true - can you (or they I should ask), have a list of the 5000 convictions in the past decade? You get my point...

I understand that some folks are upset with police issues in the past few decades, especially black folks. But downplaying war and using rhetoric to imply ALL of the police involved in shootings are murderers looses me at the beginning. It's difficult for me to continue with an article once I read something like that.

But this doesn't mean I argue with 100% of what you have posted. Some is police misconduct or brutality, and I'm sure some of those 5,000 shootings were legitimate and officers cleared. It's wrong to imply all officer involved killings are murders, just as it would be wrong of anyone to completely dismiss complaints and imply all the conduct by the police that you have posted was OK.

Yes that was one of the articles.
of the 5 i posted plus the 7 or 8 refs to video post.

And I see you're point but it's clear the articles purpose is to point out the numbers.
it's main point are the numbers. They are the same as WAR numbers.that's the main take away.
I don't get the impression at all they are try to downplay the war deaths.
I suspect that they've written against war deaths elsewhere.

You've focused on an aspect of an article you think IMPLIES that ALL Police are "killers".
as you often ask me, did the article say that?

IMO you've twisted it in the worse light and taken at great offense. so much so that it's unreadable to you.
IMO i think you're doing it a disservice.

by way of comparison,
others here on the board have posted articles or stated out right that Black people need to be monitored, are "animals", basically all criminals, they have posted racist "jokes" but somehow many think none of that is suppose to imply that anyone is racist in the slightest.

Seems if we were to try to draw implications based on whats written we could come to various conclusions.

[red states rule]

This sums up the double standard and myth about white Police Officers





White Cops Aren't Victimizing Black Youth

Jermaine Jones, 29, was gunned down in the street on the outskirts of Ferguson, Mo., Oct. 18, a few hours after his sister, Margaree Dixson, 35, had been shot half a mile away.


If this is the first you’ve heard about these murders, it’s because their killers also were black.


“Black deaths matter only if the killer is a white cop,” said Italian journalist Enza Ferrerri.


Which doesn’t happen very often. Of 1,265 murder victims in St. Louis between 2003 and 2012, 1,138 (89.9 percent) were black, according to University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist David Klinger, a former police officer.


About 90 percent of the black decedents (1,025) were slain by other blacks, his research indicates. Thirty-two were killed by police officers, 22 (1.93 percent) by white cops.


Between 1976 and 2011 across the United States, 7,982 blacks were murdered each year, on average — 94 percent by other blacks, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. About 227 blacks (2.8 percent) were shot by police each year, according to a study by Pro Publica (which pointed out that national statistics on police shootings are difficult to assess because of differences in how police departments report them).


The use of excessive force by police isn’t unheard of, so if a consequence of the news media’s obsession with the shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson Aug. 9 is more widespread use of bodycams by police, that would be good.


But to assert that racially motivated shootings by police are commonplace and that this was one of them undermines the rule of law and “fans racial discord,” said Milwaukee County (Wis.) Sheriff David Clarke, who is black.


Young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police than are young white males, Pro Publica said. But because more than two-thirds of police officers are white and blacks commit about half of violent crimes, it stands to reason most police shootings would involve a white cop and a black suspect.
Blacks also are more likely than whites, Hispanics or Asians to resist arrest, according to Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute.


Black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops have, Prof. Klinger’s data indicate. No statistical evidence supports the charge that white cops routinely abuse black suspects. But the question is: Did Officer Wilson use excessive force against Michael Brown?


“What the grand jury had, that the rest of us did not have until the grand jury’s decision was announced, was a set of physical facts that told a story that was independent of what anybody said,” wrote economist Thomas Sowell, who is black. “Moreover, the physical facts were consistent with what a number of black witnesses said under oath, despite expressing fears for their own safety for contradicting what those in the rampaging mobs were saying.”


Despite this, liberal journalists on the “Meet the Press” program last Sunday were aghast when National Review’s Rich Lowry said the lesson of Ferguson was “don’t fight with a policeman when he stops you and try to take his gun.”


Even if Officer Wilson had been wearing a bodycam, it wouldn’t have mattered to journalists “too invested in the white-racism morality play to let facts — even videotaped facts — get in the way,” said Mona Charen of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.


More despicable are those journalists who made excuses for violence after the grand jury refused to indict Officer Wilson for a crime it was clear he didn’t commit. Those who looted (mostly black-owned) businesses and burned down a black church aren’t “protesters” who were “trying to make their voices heard.” They’re criminals.


The victims in Ferguson are the law-abiding people in the majority black community who’ve lost their businesses, their jobs and convenient places to shop due to mob violence. Among their victimizers are the Obama administration and much of the national news media.


“If the history of other communities ravaged by riots in years past is any indication, there are blacks yet unborn who will be paying the price of these riots for years to come,” Mr. Sowell wrote.




Jack Kelly is a columnist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/12/07/white_cops_arent_victimizing_black_youth_124882.ht ml

[Jeff]

This sums up the double standard and myth about white Police Officers



If this is the first you’ve heard about these murders, it’s because their killers also were black.


“Black deaths matter only if the killer is a white cop,” said Italian journalist Enza Ferrerri.

This administration has done everything it can do to make race relations between black and white as bad as they possible can and the media is eating it up, the statement above couldn't be more true, most of these so called young black ( innocent ) males that are being killed daily aren't at the hands of the cops but at the hands of other thugs just like themselves ( same color as well ) but nope no riots no looting no threads on DP all because it isn't a white cop shooting a black man. Facts cops kill white criminals as well, Fact if ya rob a store expect cops to get in your face, FACT there is more black on black murders than there is cases of police shooting a black male, but it seems like the media just doesn't want to print the facts any longer :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Sorry folks long winded rant time just so i'm not misunderstood or assume wrong because i don't have my facts.

part 1 of 2

Ok um the thread is primarily about Police being more aggressive, more heavily armed, acting with more impunity legally and generally more re-positioned against everyone today than in the past but, as mentioned, it's been a persistent issues within minority communities.

the above comments about black on black crime come up often, and in this board the idea that Blacks are MORE prone to crime by default ..therefore... has come up as well.

lets step back a minute.

I 've pointed this out before, and it's often seems lost on some of the right.
OK Yes, there's "Black on Black Crime". Far more death's of black youths from that than police. absolutely. no one denies that.
but here's the thing, It's always correctly called CRIME.
whereas when police beat or shoot truly innocent persons or over suspicions or trivial offenses it's to often called "justified", good honest "police work" and the police walk away.
(Of course if you think all blacks deserve to be shot and harassed for nothing or for "bad attitudes" or welfare, or fill in the blank non crime or racial stereotype here then it's always justified to beat/kill blacks)

this is the issue.
it's the justice issue that enflames people. out of proportion? .. maybe. When you're accused falsely over and over how calmly do you react?

But "Black on black" crime is rightly judged --OUT of the GATE-- as wrong by all.
But cops killing black guys is too often considered as if ...' well they got what they had coming... because they are "animals"... and their crime is sooo bad that if innocents are being harassed by police MORE than others it should not be questioned....If a few more blacks kids get beaten/killed by the police well...to bad... they ALL have "bad attitudes" any who ... it should teach "them" a lesson... plus they look like demons...'

When all folks are really looking for is people to look at the issue serious as --- i point out again-- was done in Washington.

end part one.

[Drummond]

Revelarts, it seems to me that you started this thread as a protest against police shooting unarmed people.

This raises three questions for me:-

1. Are police required to be sure that those they combat with a gun are armed themselves ?

2. If 'yes', how do they establish that ? By first being shot THEMSELVES ?

3. Is your real agenda, Revelarts, a bog-standard Leftie one, of forcing police to either abandon firearms, or, to wear them without using them except to defend against being shot at ... AFTER the fact ?????

Comment: guns can be aimed to immobilise, used for that purpose. I suggest that this is no bad thing ..

[revelarts]

Concerning “Black on Black crime”. in general
it’s a horrible a horrible thing and it’s always weird to me that many on the right assume that Blacks are not concerned about it.
But i guess if you just watch the MSM where only blood and conflict lead and solutions to problems are rarely “TOP NEWS TONIGHT”.


But look Every black organization i know of NAACP, SCLC, the Urban League, 100 Black Men org, and many other state, local groups, churches and orgs and projects etc etc Adress the black on Black crime issue they have for decadees.
Even Sharpton and Jackson -for better or worse- have consistently been addressing this issue. They don't get much screen time for that. And and as i said in the previous post
It’s not controversial. It's Tragic.
No Ones claiming that the killings and crimes are “JUSTIFIED”.
when the crooks go to jail people are satisfied that a criminal is off the streets.
but for example of the things being done.




……….
The 30th National Preventing Crime in the Black Community Conference
The Florida Consortium of Urban League Affiliates (http://www.ulbroward.org/), along with Derrick Brooks Charities (http://www.db55.org/Programs/YouthPrograms.aspx), manage the state's Black-on-Black and Youth Crime Prevention and Intervention grant programs. In 2012 they have joined the Office of the Attorney General as partners in presenting the Preventing Crime in the Black Community conference. We are truly in it together.
The National Conference on Preventing Crime in the Black Community grew out of a partnership between Florida Office of the Attorney General and the Florida Consortium of Urban Leagues Affiliates in 1986 to address Black-on-Black crime.
———————————————————————
Trayvon Martin Save Our Sons, Daughters Conference Kicks Off (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/10/05/trayvon-martin-save-our-sons-daughters-conference-kicks-off/)
The goal of the conference is to find solutions to black-on-black crime. 10/05/2012
———————————————————————
SCLC outraged over black on black violence in Birmingham
Posted: Sep 10, 2014 1:54 PM EDT Updated: Sep 17, 2014 5:04 PM EDT
By Alan Collins
Pastor Calvin Woods, President of the Birmingham Metro SCLC and other SCLC members held a press conference in Kelly Ingram Park to address the recent violence among African Americans in Birmingham. Source: Alan Collins/WBRC
BIRMINGHAM, AL (WBRC) -
Over the last two weeks there have been 10 homicides in Birmingham.On Wednesday, the Birmingham Metro Chapter of the SCLC held a news conference to express its outrage that the murders involve African Americans killing African Americans.The news conference was held at the foot of the statue of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in Kelly Ingram Park."We are doubly disturbed when you have the black race seemingly trying to commit genocide upon itself," Pastor Calvin Woods, President of the Birmingham Metro SCLC, said.Woods is calling for massive demonstrations to march against violence.http://www.myfoxal.com/story/26498538/sclc-outraged-over-black-on-black-violence-in-birmingham.
———————————————————————
Black funeral home directors at Jacksonville convention express message to stop violence
By Dan Scanlan (http://jacksonville.com/authors/dan-scanlan-0) Tue, Apr 29, 2014 @ 3:15 pm
Funeral directors admit they earn money from death.
But the message from the National Funeral Directors and Morticians’ Association’s board meeting this week in Jacksonville is simple — they don’t want the business of burying young black men killed by violence.
Their comments comes as Jacksonville’s 2014 statistics show 22 of the 36 homicides as of Tuesday were young black men 17 to 25 years old, according to Times-Union records. So ranking members of the oldest organization of black funeral directors and embalmers are urging their members to reach out to their communities and corporations to find ways to help young people before they die or kill in retaliation.
“If we can stand up and say we don’t want to bury them, it is a strong statement,” association spokeswoman and Virginia funeral home owner Connie Steele said. “We don’t want to bury our kids. We want them to live to be 70 or 80 and be productive.”
———————————————————————
Anti-Violence Leaders From Across County Expected For Conference (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/10/14/anti-violence-leaders-from-across-county-expected-for-conference/)The Father’s Day Rally Committee is hosting a three-day conference later this month that is expected to draw anti-violence leaders from all over the country. 10/14/2012 Black Self Genocide (http://hosted.uwsepa.org/newsletter/blackonblack.pdf)hosted.uwsepa.org/newsletter/blackonblack.pdf - Aug 10, 2012 ... National Black on Black Violence & Crime Conference. Black Self Genocide: Confronting the Enemy Within. Friday, August 10 through Sunday,
———————————————————————

...I could pages of events rallies workshops, community meeting , school partnership etc etc but i hope you get the point.
And i hope that puts Blacks CONCERN over black on black crime in some perspective. Maybe some think more needs to be done, Ok sure. But BTW what’s the republican/right's agenda for helping solve the Black on black crime problem? or maybe it’s just used as a talking point against blacks in general?

OK so at this point I’d like to comment on the idea that been tossed around in many threads here by a just a few people that Black crime is some innate part of Blacks or Black communities.
A few seem to think it’s a forgone conclusion, other site stats trying to nail the point as "fact".
I’ve never really wanted to get into a debate about such things , people who “believe it” just believe it. stats either way don’t matter.

But by why of a few simply numbers maybe this can add to a broader view of the issue.
OK, As the 1st post in this thread points out. the number of crimes and murders have gone DOWN OVERALL in the past 20- 30 years or so.
that’s a fact.

for those that think that black s are prone to murder and violence from the womb
i wonder how do we explain that there are more Blacks NOW but LESS murders in real numbers
1975 Apx 24 million Blacks in US
1975 Apx 11,000 murders by Black criminals

2005 Apx 40 million Blacks in US
2005 apx 10,000 murders by Black Criminals
Justice Dept stats
FBI stats say
apx 6500 in 2005 and apx 5500 in 2011

what can we say about these numbers?
AC mentioned that 99% of police stops are non violent right. no source on that stat BTW but it's assumed true. I wouldn't spend time trying to make few percentage points of difference. essentially i'm sure it's true.
police are not in general killing people off.
Neither are Blacks
40 million blacks and 10,000 murders by criminals.
So do these numbers prove that MOST black are “prone" to violence?
and the fact the the number of blacks has Doubled but the murders have dropped in real numbers. Does that imply ANYTHING about changing actions and so-called proclivity to violence?

over the same time period
1975 Apx 183 million Whites in US
1975 Apx 9,000 murders by White criminals

2005 Apx 218 million Whites in US
2005 Apx 8,500 murders by White criminals
A decrease in murder as well.

And The FBI numbers say that 85% of murders of Whites are done by Whites.
white on white crime? why do whites kill their own? animals maybe? FACT, There’s FAR MORE white on white murder in real numbers and by percentage (whites kill more white people than any other race).
So should we more or less ignore racially inspired murders that minorities commit against Whites?

Look in general, more often than not, people kill their loved ones, friends and neighbors — and since people of different racial backgrounds tend to live clustered together, they are far more likely to kill someone of their own race than someone of another race.



The latest figures from the FBI, Bureau of Justice Statistics and public health agencies show that among black youth, rates of robbery and serious property offenses are the lowest in more than 40 years. Rates of murder and rape are now lower than when nationwide crime statistics first appeared in 1965 — and those were far less complete than today’s. Assault rates are lower than when this crime statistic was expanded to include domestic violence and new offenses a quarter-century ago.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74546.html#ixzz3LJyNxzFJ

Violent and other criminal victimizations of young African-Americans have also plummeted to record lows, as have a host of other ills including unplanned pregnancy, drug abuse and school dropout rates. While the numbers remain considerably worse for blacks than for other groups, murder and violent crimes remain very rare events among African-Americans — and among youth in general.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74546.html#ixzz3LJyZl9l9


So it does appear it's going DOWN overall. Can you find pockets of a rise in spots? sure but the trend overall is going down. Is it as good as it needs to get? Of course not, but even in the midst of all of the media portrayal of all black youth as gangster, dropouts with "bad attitudes" it's moving in the right direction, in terms of real numbers, thank God.
do presidents get to take the blame or credit for it. I don't see how.

But one murder and crime is to many, Black White Green whatever it’s a universal problem it’s not a “black vs white” problem Crimes is crime, it’s a human problem. But it NEVER helps to demonize a race or group and assume the worse of them, we all live here together may as well help each other.
If it's not self evident that NO ONE wants to live in crime invested area,
the numbers and actions show that Blacks want less crime as well,
Just not at the price of harassing/killing innocents or minor criminals to get there.

[jimnyc]

Yes that was one of the articles.
of the 5 i posted plus the 7 or 8 refs to video post.

I wasn't dismissing any of your articles or nothing like that, Rev. I was just giving an example about that one article which pissed me off.


You've focused on an aspect of an article you think IMPLIES that ALL Police are "killers".
as you often ask me, did the article say that?

Yes, it did. Exact words:


In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489. (http://antiwar.com/casualties/)

That's outright stating that the 5000 people killed in the past decade were murdered.


IMO you've twisted it in the worse light and taken at great offense. so much so that it's unreadable to you.
IMO i think you're doing it a disservice.

That's my point. The exaggeration and lying in the first sentence makes it difficult to continue, on that one article. And I didn't twist that first sentence, they wrote it, not me. The only disservice was the writer harming his own article and facts with such a statement.

I think you're reading too much into my words, actually. I wasn't dismissing your complaints and total stories. I do believe that the police brutality that at times we see needs to stop. But I think the conversation needs to be fair, and the facts looked at properly is all. For starters, those against need to stop referring to all police involved shootings as "murderers".

[jimnyc]

Even Sharpton and Jackson -for better or worse- have consistently been addressing this issue.

I'm NOT dismissing what else you wrote, but had to reply to this tidbit. The black community need to toss these 2 idiots to the side. While perhaps they do discuss black on black crime, they generally only pop into the limelight when it's a white on black crime so they can scream bloody murder. Very rarely if ever will you see them doing similarly when it's black on black, and literally never when it's black on white. They stir up racial animosity more than anything else. I seriously doubt their intentions are heartfelt for the victim and more so about getting airtime for themselves. I truly believe they do more harm to these situations when they arise, and more harm to the black community than they do help.

[revelarts]

I wasn't dismissing any of your articles or nothing like that, Rev. I was just giving an example about that one article which pissed me off.

Yes, it did. Exact words:

That's outright stating that the 5000 people killed in the past decade were murdered.

That's my point. The exaggeration and lying in the first sentence makes it difficult to continue, on that one article. And I didn't twist that first sentence, they wrote it, not me. The only disservice was the writer harming his own article and facts with such a statement.

I think you're reading too much into my words, actually. I wasn't dismissing your complaints and total stories. I do believe that the police brutality that at times we see needs to stop. But I think the conversation needs to be fair, and the facts looked at properly is all. For starters, those against need to stop referring to all police involved shootings as "murderers".

Well again, I see your point...
but IMO it's still skewed a bit.

again to me it seem like your saying or it implies.
that it's really bad that some people sometimes call police murderers... so bad that i can hardly address the other maybe real issues of some police actually Murdering people without justification.

it implies to me as if your saying,
Harsh words real offend me here, i have to take STRONG and vocal exception to it.
Dead Bodies no so much, yeah maybe it's bad but the NAME CALLING of police that's a deal breaker to even begin conversation over justice for dead people.

sorry but theta's the way i read it. it may not be what you mean to say it's not at all your words but that how it strikes me.

[revelarts]

I'm NOT dismissing what else you wrote, but had to reply to this tidbit. The black community need to toss these 2 idiots to the side. While perhaps they do discuss black on black crime, they generally only pop into the limelight when it's a white on black crime so they can scream bloody murder. Very rarely if ever will you see them doing similarly when it's black on black, and literally never when it's black on white. They stir up racial animosity more than anything else. I seriously doubt their intentions are heartfelt for the victim and more so about getting airtime for themselves. I truly believe they do more harm to these situations when they arise, and more harm to the black community than they do help.

Jim you might be surprised and probably pleased to know that many blacks don't take Jackson and Sharpton very seriously. I'm talking about people that will vote D every time. who think of them as opportunist who from time to time have served a useful purpose, so they are not just shouted down as frauds outright.

[jimnyc]

Well again, I see your point...
but IMO it's still skewed a bit.

again to me it seem like your saying or it implies.
that it's really bad that some people sometimes call police murderers... so bad that i can hardly address the other maybe real issues of some police actually Murdering people without justification.

sometimes? The article stated ALL police involved killings in the past decade were murders. Why is there a need for the article to open with such a HUGE lie?


it implies to me as if your saying,
Harsh words real offend me here, i have to take STRONG and vocal exception to it.
Dead Bodies no so much, yeah maybe it's bad but the NAME CALLING of police that's a deal breaker to even begin conversation over justice for dead people.

It's not that harsh words offend me, but the LIES offend me.


sorry but theta's the way i read it. it may not be what you mean to say it's not at all your words but that how it strikes me.

Do YOU believe that the police have MURDERED 5000 people in the past decade?

[jimnyc]

Jim you might be surprised and probably pleased to know that many blacks don't take Jackson and Sharpton very seriously. I'm talking about people that will vote D every time. who think of them as opportunist who from time to time have served a useful purpose, so they are not just shouted down as frauds outright.

Yeah, I know plenty of black folks who don't care for them either. But they seem to show up every single time there is a killing and make it into a circus act. Well, more so Sharpton. If "my" family? I tell him to get lost, stay away from my family and stay away from wakes and funerals - unless outright invited by the family.

[jimnyc]

I'll ask ALL readers, and this is for black crime, ANY crime, or hell - ANY subject...

If the author opens up his article, first sentence, with a blatant lie - do you think it's possible that further data/facts in the article might be lies? Or embellished a bit?

That's ALL I'm saying, Rev. Authors only harm there own stories when they exaggerate and embellish the facts, or try to twist words to make their story sounds better or scarier - or in this case, to vilify the police right from the get go and skewer the data/facts.

The rest of the article might be spot on 100% accurate. But yes, I do tend to be dismissive of the rest as a result. And rightfully so!

[aboutime]

Yeah, I know plenty of black folks who don't care for them either. But they seem to show up every single time there is a killing and make it into a circus act. Well, more so Sharpton. If "my" family? I tell him to get lost, stay away from my family and stay away from wakes and funerals - unless outright invited by the family.


Jim. Truth is. If we prevent Sharpton, or Jackson from showing up to stir up the hornets nest. They fade away because their Funding is dependent upon the extortion they use, gathered from uneducated Black folks who only follow Jesse, and Al, when it looks like something good will come of it...like, threats of riots, where BLACK FRIDAY becomes and EVERYDAY happening AT NO CHARGE.

[revelarts]

sometimes? The article stated ALL police involved killings in the past decade were murders. Why is there a need for the article to open with such a HUGE lie?

It's not that harsh words offend me, but the LIES offend me.


Do YOU believe that the police have MURDERED 5000 people in the past decade?

ok sorry i still hear --lying is more troubling than murders--.

as far as 5000 police 'murders' frankly i'd have to look at the their source.
But the numbers on this issue are not clear. From the reports i've read no one's keeping good stats on this issue. the local police self report to various agencies so could it be 5000 murders, sure. Could it be less, maybe. Could it be more, maybe. there's no solid source to get good numbers.
do you really know for sure that it is a lie?

[revelarts]

I'll ask ALL readers, and this is for black crime, ANY crime, or hell - ANY subject...

If the author opens up his article, first sentence, with a blatant lie - do you think it's possible that further data/facts in the article might be lies? Or embellished a bit?

That's ALL I'm saying, Rev. Authors only harm there own stories when they exaggerate and embellish the facts, or try to twist words to make their story sounds better or scarier - or in this case, to vilify the police right from the get go and skewer the data/facts.

The rest of the article might be spot on 100% accurate. But yes, I do tend to be dismissive of the rest as a result. And rightfully so!

Ok, no problem, but you say you don't dismiss the other articles and the like. I'd rather we focus on the Bulk of the reports and not the one line out of all i posted that bugs you.
there are dead and beaten people and a system more and more skewed against us all.

that's all i'm saying

[jimnyc]

ok sorry i still hear --lying is more troubling than murders--.

as far as 5000 police 'murders' frankly i'd have to look at the their source.
But the numbers on this issue are not clear. From the reposts i've read no one's keeping good stats on this issue. the local police self report to various agencies so could it be 5000 murders, sure. Could it be less, maybe. Could it be more, maybe. there's no solid source to get good numbers.
do you really know for sure that it is a lie?

I NEVER said one was worse. Obviously murder is worse - but lets not just make them up!!! Perhaps shootings of citizens - but then this story implies that ALL of those shootings were murders. And HOW MANY shootings when they perp had a weapon? How many when they fought back to the point of harming an officer? And if no solid source, how can this guy declare 5,000 murders?

Here's another article that states there were 2 shootings a week over a 7 year period. That's 728 shooting deaths. the next 3 years would have to be about 4,300 deaths, WAY over the norm, for these numbers to fit. These numbers aren't perfect, but they would need to be WAY WAY off to meet what this story states about "murders". And this would also mean that ALL of them were murders, not a single one justified.

Sorry, but back to what I said originally. This story opens with a lie.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/


Ok, no problem, but you say you don't dismiss the other articles and the like. I'd rather we focus on the Bulk of the reports and not the one line out of all i posted that bugs you.
there are dead and beaten people and a system more and more skewed against us all.

that's all i'm saying

I only answered your question earlier, in response to someone else, when you asked what was exaggerated. I didn't mean to take it off topic, nor imply that ALL of these stories/cases were wrong. Like I said, there's no doubt that there is police brutality out there, and most of it white officers on black folks. I don't dispute that. I don't think it's as bad as some state, but it is bad and needs fixing. And what I mean by not as bad is - many of the big cases that cause unrest around the nation, have been legitimate arrests or shootings, which lead to huge protests and riots. This doesn't make the other bad shootings somehow right though, and I agree with that.

[revelarts]

So the police military gear is to straiten who out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvDzuE2DZH8

[Neo]

I think some people need to revisit the Intellectually Honest thread.

Look I get weary of being accused of hatin' this or that ever time i point out problems.

If i say my wife's Meatloaf is burnt every Thursday it doesn't mean i HATE my wife.
but it doesn't mean i need to STHU about the meatloaf either.

I point out Obama's Flaws, but i don't HATE the man. (as some here seem too.) I just think he's WRONG and is Dangerous and Criminal in that office. Does that mean i hate the Presidency itself?

SOME police are DANGEROUS and Criminal in that Role. and should be GONE. and the public should take it serious. The Office of Police is a honored and necessary role.
but only if it's maintained in the true spirit of the role.
We can't pretend it's some Pollyanna position where we should never vigorously question the people who wear a badge because "you might need them one day then what?"

Claiming that i "hate" the police doesn't CLEAR those who've done wrong of ANY of the problems I've point out here Neo.


And I'm actually working 2 agendas at once here, neither having a thing to do with "Hate".

That's a tired excuse to cover your bias. Afterall, it is you who work on agenda's not I.