Make weed legal, ban the cigarettes

[jimnyc]

We saw 3 more election wins for marijuana last week. The push for legalization is moving forward. So once everyone is stoned, take away tobacco?

--------

Massachusetts town weighs nation's 1st tobacco ban

WESTMINSTER, Mass. (AP) -- The cartons of Marlboros, cans of Skoal and packs of Swisher Sweets are hard to miss stacked near the entrance of Vincent's Country Store, but maybe not for much longer: All tobacco products could become contraband if local health officials get their way.

This sleepy central Massachusetts town of 7,700 has become an improbable battleground in America's tobacco wars. On Wednesday, the Board of Health will hear public comment on a proposed regulation that could make Westminster the first municipality in the United States to ban sales of all tobacco products within town lines.

"To my knowledge, it would be the first in the nation to enact a total ban," said Thomas Carr, director of national policy at the American Lung Association. "We commend the town for doing it."

Town health agent Elizabeth Swedberg said a ban seemed like a sensible solution to a vexing problem.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TOWN_VS_TOBACCO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-09-10-24-21

[CSM]

We saw 3 more election wins for marijuana last week. The push for legalization is moving forward. So once everyone is stoned, take away tobacco?

--------

Massachusetts town weighs nation's 1st tobacco ban

WESTMINSTER, Mass. (AP) -- The cartons of Marlboros, cans of Skoal and packs of Swisher Sweets are hard to miss stacked near the entrance of Vincent's Country Store, but maybe not for much longer: All tobacco products could become contraband if local health officials get their way.

This sleepy central Massachusetts town of 7,700 has become an improbable battleground in America's tobacco wars. On Wednesday, the Board of Health will hear public comment on a proposed regulation that could make Westminster the first municipality in the United States to ban sales of all tobacco products within town lines.

"To my knowledge, it would be the first in the nation to enact a total ban," said Thomas Carr, director of national policy at the American Lung Association. "We commend the town for doing it."

Town health agent Elizabeth Swedberg said a ban seemed like a sensible solution to a vexing problem.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TOWN_VS_TOBACCO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-09-10-24-21

"Town health agent Elizabeth Swedberg said a ban seemed like a sensible solution to a vexing problem."

Hmm .. isn't that the same thing that was said when passing the 18th Amendment to the Constitution?

[fj1200]

I was on the Georgia Tech campus Saturday and noticed a sign that said it was tobacco free. Danged lefties.

[Anton Chigurh]

Interestingly, the most danger from cigarette smoke isn't the nicotine, it's the tar.

That is also true of marijuana, or any other plant you burn, then inhale. Products of combustion are deadly.

Worst problem they cause isn't canser, it's when this tar begins to line your arteries and clogs up your liver - the more chronically you smoke plants, the faster this happens.

Plus, the carbon monoxide collects in the bloodstream, displacing oxygen.

Doesn't matter what plant you smoke, these dangers are the same.

[Jeff]

Smoking pot is way worse for you than smoking cigarettes, personally I am all for legalizing marijuana, but no way are the big tobacco companies going to step a side and let cigarettes become illegal, to much money out of there pocket. So ya say well like Phillip Morris will just move to selling marijuana instead, yup they could do that but they could also have there cake and eat it to, illegal cigarettes is never going to happen, to much loss money for the rich !!

[jimnyc]

Smoking pot is way worse for you than smoking cigarettes, personally I am all for legalizing marijuana, but no way are the big tobacco companies going to step a side and let cigarettes become illegal, to much money out of there pocket. So ya say well like Phillip Morris will just move to selling marijuana instead, yup they could do that but they could also have there cake and eat it to, illegal cigarettes is never going to happen, to much loss money for the rich !!

I think you have that backwards! I don't think a single person has ever croaked in direct relation to smoking weed.

Also - wanted to add about the title of the thread - that wasn't me saying "make it legal", it was me TRYING to be funny, as in yeah, go ahead, make weed legal and make the legal thing illegal.

[Jeff]

I think you have that backwards! I don't think a single person has ever croaked in direct relation to smoking weed.

Also - wanted to add about the title of the thread - that wasn't me saying "make it legal", it was me TRYING to be funny, as in yeah, go ahead, make weed legal and make the legal thing illegal.

I watched a special on it one night Jim, the amount of poisons you get from a joint ( if I remember correctly ) was like the equivalent of one joint equals 6 cigarettes, you don't see people dieing of smoking pot because most dont smoke 20 to 60 joints a day like they do cigarettes, but I did look it up to show you what I was talking about and get different stories, each talking about a study done, bottom line looks like you hold pot in way longer than you do cigarette smoke and cigarettes have filters that help, but the last article I read said they do about the same damage to the lungs ect... so flip a coin :laugh:

[jimnyc]

I watched a special on it one night Jim, the amount of poisons you get from a joint ( if I remember correctly ) was like the equivalent of one joint equals 6 cigarettes, you don't see people dieing of smoking pot because most dont smoke 20 to 60 joints a day like they do cigarettes, but I did look it up to show you what I was talking about and get different stories, each talking about a study done, bottom line looks like you hold pot in way longer than you do cigarette smoke and cigarettes have filters that help, but the last article I read said they do about the same damage to the lungs ect... so flip a coin :laugh:

I heard about that too. But if it were true, we would have SOME records of people dying. Do you know how many stoners there are out there that have never touched a cigarette? If the poisons/tar and other things were deadly, and really only about 1/6th of a cigarette, we would have SOME deaths out there to debate at least. I'm confident any smoke hitting the lungs can't be "good" for you, but I don't believe the things I've heard about it being worse for you than regular smokes. Cigarettes are the cause of millions of deaths, literally countless per year. While I'm sure stoners have crashed cars from smoking and driving and such, you'd be hard pressed to find many stories of stoners dying in direct relation to the smoke they inhale. If it were the "same", then there would be SOME lung cancer issues out there directly related. I've never seen one, not one case, while literally millions die from cigarettes.

[jimnyc]

(CBS) - Is smoking marijuana bad for your health? The question is often debated when it comes to medical marijuana, but a new study suggests if smoking pot is bad for your body, your lungs aren't bearing the brunt of the damage.

The study found occasional marijuana smoking did not negatively impact a person's lung function.

For the study, researchers performed routine pulmonary function tests on 5,115 young adults who were part 20-year study on coronary artery disease risk. The researchers wanted to test lung function against a person's "joint years" of life-time marijuana exposure. For example, if a person smoked one joint or pipe's worth of marijuana per week for 49 years, or if a person smoked one joint or pipe's worth per day for seven years, both people would be identified as having "7-joint-years" of marijuana exposure.

That might sound like a lot, but most of the marijuana smokers in this study were not heavy users, according to study co-author Dr. Stefan Kertesz, an associate professor of preventive medicine at the University of Alabama at Birgmingham.

"This is not a study focused on the kinds of individuals you would see in treatment programs for chemical dependence or in the latest 'Harold and Kumar' movie," Kertesz told CBS News in an email. Kertesz said the median marijuana smokers in the study used roughly two to three joints per month, which may include some people who would smoke frequently but then stop for a long period of time.

What the researchers find?

"With up to 7 joint-years of life-time exposure, we found no evidence that increasing exposure to marijuana adversely affects pulmonary function," the researchers wrote in study, published in the Jan. 10 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association. In fact, the researchers found a slight increase in occasional marijuana smokers' lung function. That increase may be indicative of marijuana smokers taking deep breaths and holding the smoke in, the researchers said.

At more than 10 joint-years of marijuana exposure, the researchers saw a slight decline in lung function, but the researchers said that finding was not statistically significant, so could be due to chance. Cigarette smokers, who smoked a median of eight to nine cigarettes per day, saw a significant drop in lung function over the twenty year study.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-smoking-marijuana-bad-for-your-lungs/

[jimnyc]

Journal of the American Medical Association put a dent in the arguments against Marijuana smoking today, with release of a new report showing casual pot smokers might even have stronger lungs than non smokers.

Researchers say that there is good evidence that occasional marijuana use can cause an increase in lung airflow rates and lung volume. Volume is measured as the total amount of air a person can blow out after taking the deepest breath they can.

The study, which was carried out by The University of California, San Francisco, and The University of Alabama at Birmingham, spans over more than two decades and involves more than 5000 men and women, in four American cities : Birmingham, Chicago, Oakland, Calif., and Minneapolis.

One of the study's co-authors, Stefan Kertesz commented :

"At levels of marijuana exposure commonly seen in Americans, occasional marijuana use was associated with increases in lung air flow rates and increases in lung capacity ... With marijuana use increasing and large numbers of people who have been and continue to be exposed, knowing whether it causes lasting damage to lung function is important for public-health messaging and medical use of marijuana."

He continues that even at daily usage levels of one joint per day over seven years, people were not seeming to have any degradation of lung capacity or function.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240146.php

[Drummond]

Is electoral desperation setting in ??

Maybe the thinking is that Obama's Party has a great chance of being re-elected -- IF -- people are stoned enough out of their heads to want to vote for them !!?!

[gabosaurus]

Smoking kills you. The second-hand smoke kills those around you.
I've never heard of anyone dying from smoking pot.
The only reason why pot is not legal is that the Tobacco Lobby has its hands in pockets of Congress.

[Anton Chigurh]

The studies you're posting Jimmy, are about OCCASIONAL and CASUAL weed smokers. Not about the CHRONIC ones.

All the old dopers have COPD, COLD and Emphysema and it comes from inhaling plant smoke.

There is NO question carbon monoxide stays in the bloodstream and blocks oxygen in the blood. Our blood has 50 times the affinity for it than it does for oxygen.

There is NO question the liver can filter out only a small amount of the tar accumulation - the rest of it clogs the lungs and the arteries.

Inhaling products of plant combustion is BAD for you no matter the plant.

Targeted studies of CASUAL pot smokers? Where's the same studies of CASUAL tobacco smokers? See the problem now?

[jimnyc]

The studies you're posting Jimmy, are about OCCASIONAL and CASUAL weed smokers. Not about the CHRONIC ones.

All the old dopers have COPD, COLD and Emphysema and it comes from inhaling plant smoke.

There is NO question carbon monoxide stays in the bloodstream and blocks oxygen in the blood. Our blood has 50 times the affinity for it than it does for oxygen.

There is NO question the liver can filter out only a small amount of the tar accumulation - the rest of it clogs the lungs and the arteries.

Inhaling products of plant combustion is BAD for you no matter the plant.

Targeted studies of CASUAL pot smokers? Where's the same studies of CASUAL tobacco smokers? See the problem now?

Smoking cigarettes is deadly whether casual or heavy smoker, and many say even second hand smoke. The study may have been on casual marijuana smokers, but I still have not heard of a single marijuana smoker who died from smoking. And there are, and have always been a lot of chronic marijuana smokers. I'm not saying that it's something that is good for your body, but it's not equal to as bad for you as cigarettes are, not even close.

[aboutime]

Just make POT Legal everywhere, for everybody. Let the users pretend they aren't destroying themselves.

Laws no longer matter anyhow. Education has been lost to idiots, and they are all in Washington.

[Anton Chigurh]

I still have not heard of a single marijuana smoker who died from smoking. This is just a old NORML chestnut, you "haven't heard" of it because tobacco smoking gets the blame for all the COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema deaths.

One more time: Inhaling the products of combustion from the burning of ANY plant is bad for you and carries the same risks no matter the plant.

The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger. The products of combustion are.

Smoking PLANTS is deadly whether casual or heavy smoker. The facts don't change based on what plant it is.

[hjmick]

Make weed legal, ban the cigarettes



I'm good with that...

[jimnyc]

This is just a old NORML chestnut, you "haven't heard" of it because tobacco smoking gets the blame for all the COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema deaths.

One more time: Inhaling the products of combustion from the burning of ANY plant is bad for you and carries the same risks no matter the plant.

The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger. The products of combustion are.

Smoking PLANTS is deadly whether casual or heavy smoker. The facts don't change based on what plant it is.

One more time: Not a single person has ever died from anything directly related to smoking marijuana. There are likely millions of people that smoke marijuana who don't smoke cigarettes, and they are not developing those diseases and dying.

[hjmick]

About twenty five years ago I argued with my friends that there would come a day when people would be buying cigarettes on street corners like weed. That day might be closer than anyone thinks...


In my mind, unless this town also decides to ban the sales of chips, soda, candy, donuts and any other food or beverage whose consumption can lead to obesity, diabetes, cancer, and death, they're just a bunch of fucking hypocrites like CVS...


And what about the fast food joints? Shut them down as well...

[Anton Chigurh]

One more time: Not a single person has ever died from anything directly related to smoking marijuana. There are likely millions of people that smoke marijuana who don't smoke cigarettes, and they are not developing those diseases and dying.But, they are.

ALL the old dopers are. They never smoked tobacco, but ARE and HAVE died of COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema.

There is NO question inhaling products of combustion from burning plants IS deadly. They ALL have the same byproducts, no matter the plant!:laugh:

Pretending it isn't so, does not make it so. It's this thing called science.

[jimnyc]

But, they are.

ALL the old dopers are. They never smoked tobacco, but ARE and HAVE died of COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema.

There is NO question inhaling products of combustion from burning plants IS deadly. They ALL have the same byproducts, no matter the plant!:laugh:

Pretending it isn't so, does not make it so. It's this thing called science.

Provide citations to prove your words then. And based on your condescending attitude, shove them directly up your ass when you find them. Pretending you are so smart doesn't make it so.

[Anton Chigurh]

Provide citations to prove your words then. And based on your condescending attitude, shove them directly up your ass when you find them. Pretending you are so smart doesn't make it so.So, it's clear you might not be understanding what I am actually saying, so I will come at it from another direction.

There are no mythical, magical plants on this planet that do not emit deadly carbon monoxide and complex hydrocarbons (tar) and other chemicals - many of them carcinogenic - when burned.

Deadly carbon monoxide and complex hydrocarbons (tar) and other chemicals - many of them carcinogenic - ARE deadly to humans. This is not in question.

Therefore it does not matter what plant you are inhaling the smoke of - it is deadly to you. Especially in large quantities over time.

It surprises us all when we learn that fully half of the lung cancer cases, fully three fourths of the COPD, COLD, and Emphysema cases, aren't attributed to smoking. I know, we assume smoking tobacco is the ONLY thing that causes these maladies. But that is actually far from the case.

Hey, you're talking to a cat who supports legalizing ALL drugs and substances and who in fact believes we should put our massive industrial and agricultural might to work, exporting weed and drugs to the world. In two generations? No enemies abroad and the addictive personality gene will be wiped from the gene pool. I am all for de-criminalization of all substances. People should have the right to put anything in their own body they want and let Darwin tally the score.

We can more than pay for it all by exporting meth, coke, weed and other drugs to the world - becoming the big supplier! The pusher! Just imagine....

[aboutime]

I think you have that backwards! I don't think a single person has ever croaked in direct relation to smoking weed.

Also - wanted to add about the title of the thread - that wasn't me saying "make it legal", it was me TRYING to be funny, as in yeah, go ahead, make weed legal and make the legal thing illegal.


Probably true Jim. But nobody seems willing to mention, or talk about the deaths caused by pot smokers who get behind the wheel, or think they are in LA LA land, having a wonderful time; and causing the injury, or death of innocent bystanders who become victims.

Which is why I said LET EVERYBODY SMOKE POT. That's a better way of Thinning the Herd of brainless, useless, ignorance.

[Anton Chigurh]

And based on your condescending attitude, shove them directly up your ass when you find them. Pretending you are so smart doesn't make it so.Oh shoot I just noticed this!

People shooting for sardonic humor can often be mistaken for being condescending. Happens to us all, even you. I was applying satire, using the leftist mantras in what clearly was only singular wit. My apologies!

[Jeff]

How many people have died from say Lung Cancer that have never smoked ?? I personally know of quite a few, now with that said smoking pot is illegal, most folks don't tell there Doc or many others that they even do it so to say we have never heard of anyone ever dying of smoking pot although true at best it is mid leading, smoking anything into your lungs isn't good for you.

[jimnyc]

Probably true Jim. But nobody seems willing to mention, or talk about the deaths caused by pot smokers who get behind the wheel, or think they are in LA LA land, having a wonderful time; and causing the injury, or death of innocent bystanders who become victims.

Which is why I said LET EVERYBODY SMOKE POT. That's a better way of Thinning the Herd of brainless, useless, ignorance.

Even if though, I'd bet my life that if you add up all pot related accidents, deaths on the road...and hell, even add in all the injuries related to pot smoking. I would still wager it's less than deaths alone from smoking cigarettes.

And I'm sure there are folks out there like that, just like drinkers, but everyone I know tends to handle it the same - which is to enjoy it in your home, in your yard, away from kids & take precautions and such. Not everyone is running around out there like 18 year olds and placing others in danger. We accept alcohol and cigarettes, and both are 50x worse for society than marijuana. Just the drunk driving deaths alone are more than enough, but then add in how many people die from liver diseases and other alcohol related diseases. And smoking cigs, who knows for sure as I'm too lazy to search, but heart and lung disease kill approx about over 1 million per year alone. One would be hard pressed to find a handful of deaths directly related to marijuana - while drunk driving kills more in one day, as does cancer and other cigarette related disease. IF it were that solid proof that marijuana did the same, directly caused cancer and such, the stats and proof would be all over the place.

I have known MANY people over the years who have gotten very sick from cigarettes, and some unfortunately even died. I have watched people deteriorate from drinking, but only personally know one person who passed away. I know MANY who have been in accidents and 2 who have died in drunk driving accidents. I know of no one personally who died or got sick from marijuana.

[jimnyc]

Therefore it does not matter what plant you are inhaling the smoke of - it is deadly to you. Especially in large quantities over time.

I'm not a scientist or doctor. There are millions of recorded cases showing how the smoke of cigarettes causes cancer and other diseases. Do we have the same with marijuana? Science proving that marijuana smoke directly causes cancer and such?

I have no doubt that any smoke entering your system is harmful to you, as you say. I'm sure it affects the body. But is it deadly, as cigarettes are? If so, we should have just as many millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of deaths from over the years, no? If equally harmful, the results should be the same.

[jimnyc]

How many people have died from say Lung Cancer that have never smoked ?? I personally know of quite a few, now with that said smoking pot is illegal, most folks don't tell there Doc or many others that they even do it so to say we have never heard of anyone ever dying of smoking pot although true at best it is mid leading, smoking anything into your lungs isn't good for you.

Yep, any smoke in the lungs ain't good. As for the folks who unfortunately passed with lung cancer who didn't smoke - did the doctors state it was from years of marijuana smoking?

[Drummond]

I still say that the Dems are desperate to make it as easy to smoke pot as possible. They need people stoned enough, i.e stupid enough, to consider voting for them ...

I cite as evidence:-

http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/pot.htm


Marijuana use has been associated with turning teens into mental zombies who lose all motivation. They claim that it makes it so that all you want to do is lay around and get high, that you will become like Cheech 'n Chong. There is a real correlation with lazy dopers and Pot but I'm not sure if the Pot makes you a lazy doper or if you are a lazy doper type first and are therefore attracted to Pot. Some people experience fear and paranoia while high on Pot. Some people get headaches. MARIJUANA DOES COMPROMISE CERTAIN MENTAL ABILITIES ON A SHORT TERM BASIS.

[Jeff]

Yep, any smoke in the lungs ain't good. As for the folks who unfortunately passed with lung cancer who didn't smoke - did the doctors state it was from years of marijuana smoking?

Nope never said that, what I said was smoking pot is illegal, how many folks are honestly going to tell there Doctor that they even smoke it, all I am saying is there are folks that have died from smoking pot and we have no idea how many ( if any as you say ) because it is illegal so that isn't a fair argument, down here in the south many that have died from lung cancer and weren't smoker usually gets chalked up to spreading certain fertilizers and or poisons, but in all honesty if the average smoker that smokes 2 packs a day that is 40 cigaretees, sorry but I feel if you smoke 40 joints a day for 20 years your lungs are going to suffer just as bad, and honestly I believe worse due to the fact that most cigarettes have filter on them now a days. With that said let me say, if they legalize pot I would smoke it daily, I always loved just catching a buzz and chilling, so I have nothing against it, I just can't believe it is any better for you than cigarettes.

[jimnyc]

Nope never said that, what I said was smoking pot is illegal, how many folks are honestly going to tell there Doctor that they even smoke it, all I am saying is there are folks that have died from smoking pot and we have no idea how many ( if any as you say ) because it is illegal so that isn't a fair argument, down here in the south many that have died from lung cancer and weren't smoker usually gets chalked up to spreading certain fertilizers and or poisons, but in all honesty if the average smoker that smokes 2 packs a day that is 40 cigaretees, sorry but I feel if you smoke 40 joints a day for 20 years your lungs are going to suffer just as bad, and honestly I believe worse due to the fact that most cigarettes have filter on them now a days. With that said let me say, if they legalize pot I would smoke it daily, I always loved just catching a buzz and chilling, so I have nothing against it, I just can't believe it is any better for you than cigarettes.

But there have got to be SOME people who smoke a lot, and some people who have done so over time. And out of the millions, no one would have been honest? I know if a doctor diagnosed me with cancer, and they were looking for a cure and causes - I would ante up in a heartbeat!! Can't be arrested for telling your doctor such.

I hear what you guys are saying, but even with all of that, wouldn't there be SOME sort of track record? Not to mention, if you got cancer from smoking marijuana - with all the battery of a tests they give you, ya wouldn't likely even have to tell them, they would know.

Cigarettes have about 400 deadly mixes of carcinogens and such in them. That's why a lot of people switch to electric smokes, as now it's only the nicotine they get while tossing away all the other crap.

And now my "even if"...

EVEN IF all you guys said was true, which I disagree with - you're admitting that pot users smoke a fraction of the amount that cigarette smokers do. And this disparity shows cig smokers dying by the millions, while barely anything at all can be found about marijuana smokers. No marijuana smokers are going to smoke what supposedly would be necessary to get the same deadly results. Hell, I don't think anyone ever did smoke a pack or 2 a day of marijuana. That just proves that 99%, if not more, of marijuana smokers will not die from or get diseases from their regular smoking. A regular smoker would smoke anywhere from 1 - say maybe 5 max, as a serious stoner. Normally, one would think that would lead to 1/4 of what cigarettes do, but I don't see 1/4 of the fatalities and diseases - more like .001% equivalent. IF it were AS BAD - wouldn't there be SOME bad results all over the place, daily, showing 1/4 of the bad? So stoners smoke day after day after day - albeit some less, but where are the deaths and diseases?

If all were true, people might be able to smoke about 5 cigarettes per day without worry of getting sick, and the long term results should be similar - which would be barely being able to find a death recorded for those people smoking cigarettes long term, so long as they smoke the same amount as marijuana smokers? Which is odd, because supposedly second hand smoke causes all kinds of illnesses. We can find this stuff on second hand smoke, but barely anything ever recorded on marijuana smokers.

[NightTrain]

The problem with these studies is that no one smokes weed like you'd smoke a cigarette.

No one lights a cigarette, takes one or two puffs and puts it out. I smoke 20 to 30 cigarettes per day, more if I'm drinking. I've seen some pretty hardcore stoners in my day, and not one of them came anywhere close to that volume with pot.

I just don't know how anyone could put out a study like that with a straight face. It's common sense that inhaling any burning plant is bad for you, but the volumes involved with the two groups of people are worlds apart so any comparison between them are far fetched at best.

As to Thomas Carr and Elizabeth Swedberg in the story, they can take their anti-smoking Nazi routine and shove it. This shit has gone way overboard and it pisses me off. :smoke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This is just a old NORML chestnut, you "haven't heard" of it because tobacco smoking gets the blame for all the COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema deaths.

One more time: Inhaling the products of combustion from the burning of ANY plant is bad for you and carries the same risks no matter the plant.

The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger. The products of combustion are.

Smoking PLANTS is deadly whether casual or heavy smoker. The facts don't change based on what plant it is.




The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger.

Really? Nicotine is not a danger? FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD THAT A DEADLY POISON(nicotine) IS NOT A DANGER. :laugh:

STILL HAVE NOT SEEN ANY SOURCED EVIDENCE THAT THE TWO ARE EQUALLY HARMFUL TO MAN WHEN SMOKED.

Jim is right , why aren't millions of longtime pot smokers experiencing the same ravages that are the tobacco smokers?

I do not smoke anything ever, never have. So my opinion is not biased to favor one or the other.

Just that the evidence does not support your claim...-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Quote Originally Posted by Anton Chigurh View Post

This is just a old NORML chestnut, you "haven't heard" of it because tobacco smoking gets the blame for all the COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema deaths.

One more time: Inhaling the products of combustion from the burning of ANY plant is bad for you and carries the same risks no matter the plant.

The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger. The products of combustion are.

Smoking PLANTS is deadly whether casual or heavy smoker. The facts don't change based on what plant it is.





Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
The psychoactive chemicals such as nicotine and THC aren't the danger. Really? Nicotine is not a danger? FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD THAT A DEADLY POISON(nicotine) IS NOT A DANGER.

STILL HAVE NOT SEEN ANY SOURCED EVIDENCE THAT THE TWO ARE EQUALLY HARMFUL TO MAN WHEN SMOKED.

Jim is right , why aren't millions of longtime pot smokers experiencing the same ravages that are the tobacco smokers?

I do not smoke anything ever, never have. So my opinion is not biased to favor one or the other.

Just that the evidence does not support your claim...-Tyr



http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/mar/28/e-cigarette-overdose-how-much-liquid-nicotine-woul/


Friday, March 28, 2014

By David Wagner


Nicotine is a poison. And not just a long-term poison in the sense that smoking can put you on the slow but steady road to cancer.

It's a poison like arsenic or cyanide is a poison. Enough of it can kill you dead, in minutes flat. Just ask Gustave Fougnies, the wealthy brother-in-law of the greedy Belgian Count Hippolyte Visart de Bocarmé. Oh wait, you can't, because he's dead — murdered by nicotine poisoning.

Nicotine's poisonous properties were highlighted in a recent article in The New York Times that raised concerns about e-cigarettes and the bottles of liquid nicotine used to refill them. The director of California Poison Control's San Diego division, Lee Cantrell, told reporter Matt Richtel:



It’s not a matter of if a child will be seriously poisoned or killed. It’s a matter of when.

E-cigarettes must be accustomed to public scrutiny by now, especially in San Diego County. Carlsbad, Vista, Solana Beach and Poway have all banned e-cigarettes wherever tobacco is already prohibited. The city of San Diego is considering a similar ordinance.

Linked source given... your turn... ;)-Tyr

[Anton Chigurh]

I'm not a scientist or doctor. There are millions of recorded cases showing how the smoke of cigarettes causes cancer and other diseases. Do we have the same with marijuana? Science proving that marijuana smoke directly causes cancer and such?

I have no doubt that any smoke entering your system is harmful to you, as you say. I'm sure it affects the body. But is it deadly, as cigarettes are? If so, we should have just as many millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of deaths from over the years, no? If equally harmful, the results should be the same.There was a 2008 study of something like 19 chronic marijuana smokers, who all had the same problems you get from chronic tobacco smoking. Those problems develop over time. Main problem with marijuana research is, the low percentage of the population who smoke it vs. the percentage of tobacco smokers. It creates a false sense of security, that somehow products of combustion are magically harmless unless it's from tobacco.

Nicotine is a "poison" but then, so is caffeine and many other stimulants. But in doses you get from smoking, nicotine pales in comparison to the deadly effects of the inhaled products of combustion.

If you're inhaling smoke from plant burning over a long period, doesn't matter the plant - don't be surprised when you have COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema in your golden years, like Cheech Marin.

[Anton Chigurh]

The problem with these studies is that no one smokes weed like you'd smoke a cigarette.

No one lights a cigarette, takes one or two puffs and puts it out. I smoke 20 to 30 cigarettes per day, more if I'm drinking. I've seen some pretty hardcore stoners in my day, and not one of them came anywhere close to that volume with pot.

I just don't know how anyone could put out a study like that with a straight face. It's common sense that inhaling any burning plant is bad for you, but the volumes involved with the two groups of people are worlds apart so any comparison between them are far fetched at best.

As to Thomas Carr and Elizabeth Swedberg in the story, they can take their anti-smoking Nazi routine and shove it. This shit has gone way overboard and it pisses me off. :smoke:And here we are. There simply isn't much research in chronic marijuana smoking because the truly chronic smokers of it are few and far between. For now.

[gabosaurus]

Smoking of any substance should be prohibited in public. I am not against use of either in private places. Unless children are present.

[stephanie]

Sorry Jimmy you have this one wrong my friend

I don't care if they legalize weed, but banning anything is not Freedom of CHOICE

[stephanie]

Smoking of any substance should be prohibited in public. I am not against use of either in private places. Unless children are present.

Fine, I think they should prohibit liberals in Public. You'll go for that right?:slap:

scratch a liberal find a fascist my dear

[Drummond]

Fine, I think they should prohibit liberals in Public. You'll go for that right?:slap:

scratch a liberal find a fascist my dear

Brilliant idea !

[I wonder if it's worth starting a poll on that one .. guess how I'd vote ??]

[jimnyc]

Sorry Jimmy you have this one wrong my friend

I don't care if they legalize weed, but banning anything is not Freedom of CHOICE

I didn't write the article!! I'm not advocating for the banning of anything. I don't care if they legalize marijuana and I don't think cigarettes should be banned either.

[Jeff]

Fine, I think they should prohibit liberals in Public. You'll go for that right?:slap:

scratch a liberal find a fascist my dear

I am all for this :laugh:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6825&stc=1

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There was a 2008 study of something like 19 chronic marijuana smokers, who all had the same problems you get from chronic tobacco smoking. Those problems develop over time. Main problem with marijuana research is, the low percentage of the population who smoke it vs. the percentage of tobacco smokers. It creates a false sense of security, that somehow products of combustion are magically harmless unless it's from tobacco.

Nicotine is a "poison" but then, so is caffeine and many other stimulants. But in doses you get from smoking, nicotine pales in comparison to the deadly effects of the inhaled products of combustion.

If you're inhaling smoke from plant burning over a long period, doesn't matter the plant - don't be surprised when you have COPD, COLD, cancer and Emphysema in your golden years, like Cheech Marin.

What no facts with the mere 19?
How many of those mere 19 also smoked cigarettes?-Tyr