How to Accomplish Education Reform

[5stringJeff]

The author's two premises?

Reform One: Repeal compulsory attendance laws now.
Reform Two: Anyone who can pass a test in basic literacy and numeracy should be allowed to work.

Link (http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/06/how_to_accomplish_education_re.html)

An interesting read, if nothing else.

[diuretic]

Interesting read indeed. But did I miss something? I couldn't find a conclusion to it, I mean, some sort of idea I could actually think about.

[Hugh Lincoln]

Good ideas and good post, 5SJ.

We have compulsory education, I think, to ensure that liberal ideas are soaked into every kids' brain. OK, that's a little bit conspiracy-minded, but it could be a convenient by-product.

The child labor laws were meant to stop some abuses, but with all the fatties playing video games today, yeah, maybe we should revisit that one.

I would support de-nationalizing education. And creating tax opt-outs for parents who want private... we might send our kid to private school, but we're already paying a steep tax bill for the public one down the street.

Last, I'd ix-nay the idea that "everyone must go to college." Nah. Some, not all. We need to re-instill pride in the trades. Every parent wants junior to be a doctor or lawyer, but we still need plumbers. With everyone in America going to college, a college degree is sharply devalued.

[glockmail]

...Last, I'd ix-nay the idea that "everyone must go to college." Nah. Some, not all. We need to re-instill pride in the trades. Every parent wants junior to be a doctor or lawyer, but we still need plumbers. With everyone in America going to college, a college degree is sharply devalued.


100% in agreement with this one. I know a lot of people in the trades, that I work with, as well as my best friend when I was a kid, and I have a lot of respect for all of them. In fact, I have more respect for this group than many college edumacated.

[5stringJeff]

Good ideas and good post, 5SJ.

We have compulsory education, I think, to ensure that liberal ideas are soaked into every kids' brain. OK, that's a little bit conspiracy-minded, but it could be a convenient by-product.

The child labor laws were meant to stop some abuses, but with all the fatties playing video games today, yeah, maybe we should revisit that one.

I would support de-nationalizing education. And creating tax opt-outs for parents who want private... we might send our kid to private school, but we're already paying a steep tax bill for the public one down the street.

Last, I'd ix-nay the idea that "everyone must go to college." Nah. Some, not all. We need to re-instill pride in the trades. Every parent wants junior to be a doctor or lawyer, but we still need plumbers. With everyone in America going to college, a college degree is sharply devalued.

I agree with every point you've made.

[5stringJeff]

Interesting read indeed. But did I miss something? I couldn't find a conclusion to it, I mean, some sort of idea I could actually think about.

The idea is that the two proposals (which I typed in the original post) would improve the education system as a whole.

[diuretic]

The idea is that the two proposals (which I typed in the original post) would improve the education system as a whole.

And they were

Reform One: Repeal compulsory attendance laws now.
Reform Two: Anyone who can pass a test in basic literacy and numeracy should be allowed to work.

Okay, thanks. I don't see them as being positive for the education system though. I must be missing something.

[Abbey Marie]

...
Last, I'd ix-nay the idea that "everyone must go to college." Nah. Some, not all. We need to re-instill pride in the trades. Every parent wants junior to be a doctor or lawyer, but we still need plumbers. With everyone in America going to college, a college degree is sharply devalued.


I've been saying this for years, and no one has given me a solid reason why it is wrong. Especially when liberal arts grads are often broke and unemployable, while the plumbers and electricians are living it up. And do we even have any young guys becoming auto mechanics?

[Kathianne]

And they were

Reform One: Repeal compulsory attendance laws now.
Reform Two: Anyone who can pass a test in basic literacy and numeracy should be allowed to work.

Okay, thanks. I don't see them as being positive for the education system though. I must be missing something.

Positive in the sense that the 'education system' is supposed to work for the students, not the other way around.

For many students, once they can read and write, certainly attained by 3rd grade, they've peaked. Keeping students 'in' school, when they have no commitment to their education becomes a battle of wills. When they are in school, they are disruptive and detrimental to the 'educational system.'

[diuretic]

Points taken Kathianne. Now I wonder if a complete re-think is needed.

[Hagbard Celine]

Good ideas and good post, 5SJ.

We have compulsory education, I think, to ensure that liberal ideas are soaked into every kids' brain. OK, that's a little bit conspiracy-minded, but it could be a convenient by-product.

The child labor laws were meant to stop some abuses, but with all the fatties playing video games today, yeah, maybe we should revisit that one.

I would support de-nationalizing education. And creating tax opt-outs for parents who want private... we might send our kid to private school, but we're already paying a steep tax bill for the public one down the street.

Last, I'd ix-nay the idea that "everyone must go to college." Nah. Some, not all. We need to re-instill pride in the trades. Every parent wants junior to be a doctor or lawyer, but we still need plumbers. With everyone in America going to college, a college degree is sharply devalued.
We have compulsory education so that all citizens will have a basic education. Without it our society would break into the "knows" and the "know-nots." Education and knowledge would become a luxury for the rich.

[5stringJeff]

We have compulsory education so that all citizens will have a basic education. Without it our society would break into the "knows" and the "know-nots." Education and knowledge would become a luxury for the rich.

Not at all. The kids who wanted to stay in school could stay, regardless of income.

[Hagbard Celine]

Not at all. The kids who wanted to stay in school could stay, regardless of income.

Then you'd have people asking why they pay taxes that support an education system they aren't using. Money would have to come from somewhere, so it would be up to only those who could afford it. Next thing you know, we'd have an underclass of third-world apes who couldn't even speak proper English. (worse than we have now) Poverty, disease, crime, prostitution, slavery would all increase. It'd be the end of society as we know it.

[glockmail]

We have compulsory education so that all citizens will have a basic education. ..... Then how do you explain Liberals distaste of vouchers?

[nevadamedic]

The author's two premises?

Reform One: Repeal compulsory attendance laws now.
Reform Two: Anyone who can pass a test in basic literacy and numeracy should be allowed to work.

Link (http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/06/how_to_accomplish_education_re.html)

An interesting read, if nothing else.

They should also toss that stupid thought of all day kindergarden.

[Nukeman]

They should also toss that stupid thought of all day kindergarden.
Why is that a number of studies pont to the fact that children in all day kindergarten do very well and actually score higher than their half day counterparts.

Dont give me the old song-and-dance that its just for babysitting. Most children of kindergarten age are going from ther to daycare so thats a moot point.

I have 4 children 3 have gone through the regular half day program and our 4th has the opportunity to go all day you better believe we signed him up for the opportunity. Now if he gets that or not is a different story...

My wife and I aren't looking for free daycare, infact we made a number of sacrifices so our children would always have a parent at home. This is just a way for us to give our youngest a helping hand.


Now that I've ranted a little why dont you tell everyone why all day kindergarten is such a BAD idea..... Please enlighten me I'm curious....

[Abbey Marie]

While full day Kindergarten might be helpful for some mid-range kids, I don't think it can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, nor can the lack of it make a child less likely to excel.

Our daughter went to half-day KN. She has always excelled in school, and this semester, she is tied for rank #1 in her high school (sophomore) class. Cumulatively for both years, she is ranked 16th out of somewhere around 330 kids. I'm just sayin'.

I always say this, but I truly believe schools can only do so much with who walks through that door in the morning. If the parents aren't instilling discipline and respect for education and excellence at home, even 24/7 KN taught by the teacher of the decade isn't going to help.

[Hugh Lincoln]

We have compulsory education so that all citizens will have a basic education. Without it our society would break into the "knows" and the "know-nots." Education and knowledge would become a luxury for the rich.

But NOBODY gets a "basic" education these days, as evidenced by college graduates' inability to spell, use proper grammar or handle basic math (who, me?)

What kids get is a communist indoctrination: multiculturalism is your god, feminism is great, Western society is bad, etc. It starts EARLY and continues through until college.

Frankly, I think that liberal arts education (liberal in the classical, not political, sense) SHOULD be a luxury for the few smart enough for it. "Liberal arts," in fact, was originally MEANT for the leisure class, the upper class, those with the resources and time to explore that.

This would not deny citizens the basics at all. All would have the OPPORTUNITY and TOOLS to go further if wanted or deserved... nobody would be so ignorant that they couldn't rise, i.e., vested with basic literacy.

Once upon a time, a high school diploma meant more than a college diploma does today. You might have even learned some Greek or Latin, a la the founding fathers... probably in a fire-heated log cabin with non-union teachers, no federal desegregation plans, no ergonomic chairs and no swimming pools. Imagine that.

[nevadamedic]

Why is that a number of studies pont to the fact that children in all day kindergarten do very well and actually score higher than their half day counterparts.

Dont give me the old song-and-dance that its just for babysitting. Most children of kindergarten age are going from ther to daycare so thats a moot point.

I have 4 children 3 have gone through the regular half day program and our 4th has the opportunity to go all day you better believe we signed him up for the opportunity. Now if he gets that or not is a different story...

My wife and I aren't looking for free daycare, infact we made a number of sacrifices so our children would always have a parent at home. This is just a way for us to give our youngest a helping hand.


Now that I've ranted a little why dont you tell everyone why all day kindergarten is such a BAD idea..... Please enlighten me I'm curious....

All-day Kindergarten is strongly promoted by the education industrial complex for a variety of purposes. Among those purposes are to expand power, gain more funding, expand control over younger children, and provide child care services. This is only a step along the way to state-sponsored required preschool where government has more control of children than parents.

Much research has been done on all-day kindergarten, but it is deucedly difficult to find research that has been done by an objective source that is not deeply involved in the current education industrial complex. Most studies rely on very short-term results. However, some information can be gleaned from these studies. A summary of research can be found here.

Most research findings deliberately skew results by citing measurement against children with no Kindergarten and obliquely citing measurement against children with half-day Kindergarten. And most research focuses only on one-year gains. Weiss found in a 2002 study of 17,600 Philadelphia schoolchildren that almost all gains disappeared entirely by fourth grade (with the exception of science and attendance).

Almost all studies agree that children from low-income families benefit most from all-day Kindergarten. What is not mentioned much is that children outside of this demographic do not benefit much (if at all), and that a small percentage of these are actually harmed. One of the points most touted is that children that attended all-day K had a 70% greater chance than their half-day attending peers of reaching third grade on time. What is little mentioned, however, is that this number applies to an incredibly small number of students. Since the population to which this measure applies is so small, other unmeasured and uncontrolled factors likely contributed to skewing the numbers.

Mandating all-day Kindergarten for all students applies a mass salve to all children without any long-term benefit. It is yet another solution that implies that government knows better than parents how to manage the development of young children. While some children could benefit from all-day K, it is folly to mandate it for all students.

Substantially expanding the size and power of the education industrial complex over the past four decades has had little salutary effect on student outcomes. In fact, the result has been just the opposite by many measures. Enacting policies that expand the size and power of this establishment even more is not the road to success. Just doing more of what schools already do is obviously not the right answer.
http://reachupward.blogspot.com/2007/01/all-day-kindergarten-is-not-answer.html

http://www.pkmeco.com/familyblog/2006/01/all-day-kindergarten.html